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Campbell Brown
Bill Clinton Speaks Out; Automakers Head to Capitol Hill
Aired December 03, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everyone.
Once the most powerful man in the world, now he is the husband of our future secretary of state.
Bullet point number one tonight, a Bill Clinton CNN exclusive. The former president talks about how he fits into an Obama administration and how what he's doing now and his wife's future job can work without conflicts.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think that it's important to make it totally transparent, say who the donors are, and let people know that there's no connection to the decisions made by America's national security team, including the secretary of state.
So everything else that's part of this, I have no problem with. I think it's a good idea.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Much more from Clinton ahead.
Bullet point number two tonight, automakers in last-minute emergency meetings to win a huge bailout from Congress tomorrow. Union leaders today agreed to concessions, hoping to please lawmakers, but we have late word from the Senate, and it's not looking good.
Ali Velshi has late-breaking details for us on all of that.
And bullet point number three, is Wal-Mart responsible for the death of a worker on Black Friday? The family of the man killed when shoppers trampled him filed a lawsuit today. Who exactly is accountable? It's not as straightforward as you might guess.
We're going to have the latest on the Black Friday madness at Wall Street as well.
First, though, as always, we're cutting through the bull.
It goes without saying that there's a lot of confusion about just how the $700 billion in federal bailout money is being spent. If there's a strategy to it, if Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson really does have a plan, it's certainly been lost on me and I think most Americans. And there are plenty of examples of these funds being directed in ways that don't entirely make sense. I got an e-mail from someone down in Louisiana today who was pretty fired up about a story he read in his local paper about a local bank.
Iberia Bank is apparently requesting $90 million in federal bailout money, and getting it, $90 million. But here is what might surprise you. Iberia Bank is not in trouble. Bank officials say they're having no financial stress at all, in fact, just the opposite.
The bank managed to avoid the whole mortgage mess. And, today, it's in great financial shape. So, what are they doing using the $90 million in bailout money to grow their business? That's what they're doing. They're buying up smaller banks. Now, bank officials argue that this is good for taxpayers, that when healthy banks have capital to buy troubled banks, then those troubled banks can stay in business, and that's good for everybody.
But is it? I mean, was that the real intent of this bailout plan, to give taxpayer money to businesses that are already doing well? And, if that is the plan, are taxpayers ever going to see a return on that investment?
The government hasn't really given us the answer to any of these questions.
So, to help us cut through the bull tonight in our search for a little clarity, or, heaven forbid, a little accountability, we bring in our own Ali Velshi, chief business correspondent for our special, Ali Velshi cutting through the bull.
Handing out cash to healthy banks, does it make sense?
ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Well, here's the thing.
Iberia Bank is doing exactly what Citigroup did. The Treasury has been giving money to banks without stipulation as to what they're supposed to use it for. Now, Citibank said the same thing, Citigroup.
They said, when that got that first bailout, they're going to use it to buy other banks, make acquisitions. Well, that might be great for shareholders. It might actually be good for the struggling banks, but that wasn't what we thought that Congress was debating. We thought they were debating something that would loosen the credit crisis all the way from the biggest of international companies all the way to small businesses and to you and me.
And that's not happening. When a bank takes bailout money, federally funded taxpayer money, even though it's a loan, and uses it to buy other banks, they're buying property on the cheap, the way you and I might snap up properties, because they will be worth something later.
BROWN: Right.
VELSHI: How exactly does that open up the credit markets?
And a lot of banks haven't done that. The Government Accounting Office said this week, there's a real lack of accountability about where this money is going.
BROWN: So, is that why the credit markets haven't opened?
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: Well, they have opened at some levels. At the highest levels, they have opening up.
But we still know people have trouble getting car loans. They're having trouble getting mortgages.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: Small businesses are closing up at a rapid rate in this country. And that's the engine of job growth.
In a country where we will lose almost two million jobs this month -- this year, we need money to flow to people who need the money. And when banks take money from the federal bailout loan program and then use it to buy other banks, that does not necessarily flow through to you and me. It might. They might be buying banks so they can stay in business so they can make more loans, but we don't know that. And I bet you the Treasury doesn't know that.
BROWN: And, very quickly, would we ever get a return on our investment if like say these investments, they're buying up all these smaller banks and they do well, are we see going to see any of the upside of that?
VELSHI: Well, theoretically, you might, because some of this is equity and some of them are just loans.
But, yes, you might actually see an investment. But, again, that's not the point. We didn't authorize the government to spent $700 billion so it could make money on investments. We authorized them to spend that money so that people could help and the credit freeze can be broken. This doesn't seem to go any length to getting that done.
BROWN: So, the transparency issues, the accountability issues still very much at play here.
VELSHI: Yes. Yes.
BROWN: Ali Velshi for us tonight trying to explain it -- thanks, Ali. We will see you back here to talk about the auto stuff a little bit later in the show.
VELSHI: Yes.
BROWN: Right now, we do have a lot of other news to talk about, though. And we're starting with Bill and Hillary Clinton. Just the name the Clinton Global Initiative makes it clear that the former president's foundation casts a worldwide net. And it would seem pretty easy for the secretary of state-designate to get tangled up in that net.
After all, her responsibilities will also be worldwide. And that is one of the issues CNN International's Anjali Rao took up with Bill Clinton in an exclusive interview, his first since Hillary Clinton's nomination was announced. And Anjali is in Hong Kong tonight, joining us from there.
And this, of course, the first interview with Bill Clinton since Hillary Clinton was chosen as the next secretary of state. Everybody wanting to know what he thinks of his wife's new job. What did he tell you?
ANJALI RAO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He had plenty to say on it, Campbell.
I mean, one of the things I think that was the most surprising was he said that, despite the fact that everybody else was talking about whether she would be considered for the job of secretary of state, she was absolutely shocked. She didn't know until she read about the rumors in the newspaper.
So, anyway, now that she has been nominated, of course, her husband is going to have to take rather a back seat, and many are now wondering whether he can resist the urge to have his two cents. Let's have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAO: How involved do you think that you will get in what -- in the decisions that your wife will have to make as far as foreign policy?
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Very little. I think that my involvement will be what our involvement with each other's work has always been, that is all of the years I was a governor and president, I talked to her about everything. And I, you know, found her advice invaluable. And I'm sure that we will talk about all of this. I really care about a lot of these profound challenges that our country and the world are facing. But the decisions will have to be ultimately the -- President- elect Obama's decisions to make about what we're going to do, what our policy is going to be and then she will be a part of the team formulating those policies and carrying them out. I will just try to be a helpful sounding board to her.
But I don't think I will do anymore than that, unless he asks me to do something specific, which I'm neither looking for nor are close to.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Nor close to. He left the window open there, didn't he, Anjali?
I do want to make it clear, though, I know in your conversation with him, Bill Clinton wanted to make one thing very clear, and that is he did everything he could to smooth the way for his wife to get this nomination, right?
RAO: Absolutely, he did.
And he pretty much said in advance that he would do whatever it takes to make sure that she was installed in any position in the White House without potential conflicts of interests or anything even like that. So, you know, he has been working incredibly hard on his Clinton Global Initiative, but despite everything that he has put into his own work, he did say that he was more than willing to give up a few things for the good of his wife.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
B. CLINTON: I think that virtually everything I have agreed to do, although it is all over and above what the law requires, is quite appropriate. For example, if she's going to be secretary and state, and I operate globally and I have people who contribute to these efforts globally, I think that it is important to make it totally transparent, say who the donors are and let people know that there is no connection to the decisions made by America's national security team, including the secretary of state.
So, everything else that's part of this, I have no problem with. I think it is a good idea.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAO: Well, because he's Bill Clinton, you know, we can't forget that he does have a view on everything.
That includes the economy and something that we talked about. For a guy that left office when there was a massive budget surplus, he could have easily taken potshots at the people that he thinks have now put the U.S. in the hole that it's in financially, but he did say that, give it 15 months, two years maybe, and we will be on the up and up, so very optimistic words there and certainly good to hear at this particular juncture -- Campbell.
BROWN: Anjali Rao for us tonight, a fascinating interview. Really appreciate it. Thanks so much.
Bill Clinton, as you heard, says he's not looking for a role in Obama's administration, though should the president-elect consider keeping the former president in the loop in some fashion? In a moment, our panel of experts on the Clintons and on Obama. We will be talking about that.
And then, a little bit later, why did a congresswoman hang up, not once, but twice, today on Barack Obama? That story in the "PDB."
Plus, who really is responsible for the shopping frenzy death of a Wal-Mart worker? This story is unbelievable. We will be talking about that a little bit later.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
B. CLINTON: Ninety percent of the time I'm much more mellow and happy just with whatever's happened. But I don't -- this -- I don't deal with stress as well when I'm tired as I used to when I was young. That is, I have to be more careful about my rest. That's the only thing I have noticed. But I hope that I will be able to work until I die, because I think I should, and because it gives me great joy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So, will we see that mellow, happy Bill Clinton or the proverbial 800-pound gorilla who can't help but get involved in and influence our foreign policy?
In our latest CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll, well, more than half of you said, no, he's not going to be so influential.
Let's put the question now to some of the smartest folks in politics, Gloria Borger, CNN senior political analyst, with us, along with Stephen Hayes, CNN contributor and senior writer for "The Weekly Standard," and Errol Louis, "New York Daily News" columnist and morning host for WWRL Radio here in New York
Gloria, Bill Clinton, you heard him in the interview we did at the top of the show. He's going to be, in his words, a sounding board for his wife. But, as a former president, as the man he is, who is so used to having people listen to him, is he really going to be able to sit back, keep quiet, especially if he has a major policy disagreement with president-elect Obama?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Of course not. Absolutely not.
Bill Clinton is a force of nature. Anybody who has ever covered him, anybody who has ever been in a room with him, anybody who has ever interviewed him understands that. And Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton have always talked to each other about the political decisions they have made.
Bill Clinton has said that the person he would like most in the room with him when he makes his decisions is Hillary Clinton. And I think it's vice versa. So, you can be assured that he's going to be involved privately in lots of decisions that she makes, if not publicly. I think she will have some control, or she will try to, over his public utterances. But that didn't work so well in the campaign sometimes, Campbell.
STEPHEN HAYES, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, good luck with that.
(LAUGHTER)
BORGER: Right. BROWN: Well, Steve, let me ask you about the public part that Gloria just mentioned, because, in that interview, also, Bill Clinton said he wasn't looking for a role in the new administration, but he wasn't closed to it either.
I mean, should there be some sort of role for him? Should Obama reach out and find a way to give him kind of a seat at the table so if for no other reason, he doesn't go rogue?
BORGER: Sure.
HAYES: Well, yes, I suppose he could do that. It would be one way to get him involved and get him sort of focused on something, so that he's not talking about all of these other things that he would be tempted to talk about.
But I agree with Gloria. I think he's going to be talking to his wife constantly. He's going to be constantly giving her advise, especially, as you say, Campbell, when Barack Obama parts ways with Clinton administration policy.
And, look, you had Barack Obama, in introducing Hillary Clinton, tout her as somebody who has relationships with foreign these leaders she's going to be working with, who knows them personally. Well, if she knows them personally, her husband knows them personally even better than she does.
BROWN: Absolutely.
HAYES: So of course they're going to be talking about it.
BORGER: Yes.
BROWN: What do you think, Errol?
ERROL LOUIS, COLUMNIST, "THE NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": Oh, yes.
There are any number of places where he could be of great help to this administration or any other. He could be shuttling between Karachi and New Delhi and Kabul and trying to work out problems in that part of the world. He could do the same thing in the Middle East, going back and forth between the West Bank.
There are lots of roles that he can play. I think we will only see a problem if there's a serious disagreement. I wouldn't necessarily except it and I wouldn't anticipate it, because Obama knows how to do this.
When he talks about team of rivals, I don't think he was necessarily talking about his Cabinet. He was also talking about the former president.
BORGER: But this is why this decision to put Hillary Clinton in the Cabinet was such a brilliant stroke, because Hillary Clinton is going to have to carry out Barack Obama's policies. And that means that so will Bill Clinton. BROWN: Well, what do you think, though, Gloria -- what do you think she wants her husband's role to be?
BORGER: You know, I think she's going to be the boss of him...
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: What every woman wants, right?
BORGER: Absolutely -- in this.
And I think that just as during the campaign he did go rogue a bit in the campaign, and she's going to have to tell him when he's gone too far.
HAYES: Yes, but that's -- we know from the campaign and from years of experience that that just doesn't work. The guy sort of can't help himself.
And it's one of the reasons I think reporters sometimes like to talk to him, because he's not as disciplined as you might think he would be.
BORGER: Particularly when he's tired.
HAYES: Yes, as he just said.
(LAUGHTER)
HAYES: He will say things that don't fit the party line. And I think that can cause problems for them.
BORGER: I think it will be interesting, by the way, and so from a journalist's point of view, that's fine.
BROWN: Let me switch gears before we run out of time here, because there was the other news of the day I want to get your take on, which is of course the president-elect announcing his commerce secretary, Bill Richardson.
And some Hispanic leaders have complained that, even with the Richardson pick, there are too few Hispanics in Obama's Cabinet, that Richardson, in their view, should have gotten a more high-profile job, like Secretary of state.
And Obama got asked about this today and he basically made the point that he believes this is going to be one of the more diverse Cabinets anybody has ever seen.
Errol, what's your take?
LOUIS: Oh, yes.
Look, I think people who are complaining are, number one, jumping the gun a little bit. That plumb book of all the top appointments is 8,000 deep. There's lots of commissions and sub-Cabinet positions that are very high-profile, EPA, any number of different -- FCC.
BROWN: Right.
LOUIS: So, we're not done yet.
I think, secondly, though, they're playing the old politics. And Obama has said one of the changes that he's going to make is that he's not going to do the old ethnic division of spoils. So, I don't think they're going to get very far pushing him. This is one guy who among -- the one thing you can say about him is you're not going to sort of guilt-trip him on issues of political patronage on an ethnic basis. It's just not going to happen.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: It hasn't yet, certainly.
OK, we have got to end it there. Gloria, Steve, and Errol, many, many thanks, guys. Appreciate it.
Coming up, it's your money. It could be the most important car show ever staged. That's right, the Big Three automakers back in Washington now, preparing for the show they have got to put on for lawmakers tomorrow to win a huge bailout. And we have early word on what exactly Congress may do now.
Also tonight, our "PDB" has the story behind Obama's makeover advice for Bill Richardson on a separate note. You're going to want to hear this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Tomorrow, it's the big car show on Capitol Hill, the CEOs of GM, Ford, Chrysler all going to be back in Washington trying to sell Congress on their shiny, brand-new request for a government bailout.
Complicating their task, though, the public doesn't seem to have an appetite for new bailouts these days. Check out these numbers. Our new CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll shows 61 percent of Americans say they're against bailing out the automakers. That's a pretty big number there.
And we want to bring back our chief financial correspondent, Ali Velshi, who has some new details.
You have been talking to a lot of people down in Washington about what we're going to see happen tomorrow. Roadblocks still in the way, not only that public opinion poll, but stuff you're hearing.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: Right. And one of the things we're hearing, Senator Harry Reid said that right now he doesn't have the votes to pass this bailout assistance plan. What he said he was saying -- what he said he was referring to was that nothing has really changed.
And job one for the car companies, to steal a line from Ford, is to convince the legislators that they can actually do something with this money. They can actually not only change the way they run their businesses, but produce cars that people are going to want and need and that it's not just money going good money after bad.
That's the number-one problem here. They're going to have to say this is a bridge loan. This is money that taxpayers are going to get back and we're going to be lean and mean and we're going to be able to actually make something of our businesses.
BROWN: And they haven't made the case, at least not well enough?
VELSHI: No. Ford has made the best case so far, but then Ford was in the best position going into it. Chrysler has made the weakest case, because it's not a public company.
BROWN: Right.
VELSHI: So, we can't actually get access to their files.
And General Motors has said that they could run out of money before the end of the year if they don't get about $4 billion of the $18 billion that they're asking for almost immediately.
BROWN: And it's not just the car companies asking for money -- or desperate for money. We saw the United Auto Workers come out today. They represent a ton of men and women whose jobs are at risk here.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: Sure, the vast majority of them.
BROWN: And they're saying, hey, we're willing to make concessions, too, then, right?
VELSHI: Yes.
Ron Gettelfinger, who you're looking at now, he's the president of the United Auto Workers. He will be testifying, along with the CEOs, tomorrow. And his point is that they're going to take -- do some things that will help the automakers along.
One is, they have got a jobs bank at General Motors, at all the automakers. But they say they will suspend their jobs bank which pays a lot of out-of-work...
BROWN: To not work.
VELSHI: To not work. They also said that they will allow the auto companies to delay some payments, big payments, that were supposed to be transferred over to them in 2010. But Ron Gettelfinger made the point that even if everybody in the auto industry went in and worked for free at this point, these problems are bigger than that.
So, they have all seen the writing on the wall. The issue here is will we be able to give them money that we think is a loan that will get them to run properly or are they hemorrhaging too fast to be able to be fixed?
BROWN: Wow. OK. We will see what happens tomorrow.
Ali Velshi will be back with us tomorrow night, of course.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Thanks, Ali.
In a moment, the NO BIAS, NO BULL interview -- tonight, Tony Blair. I will ask the former prime minister and now Middle East envoy about India, violence erupting without warning, and is there really a way to control the madness.
Later, Barack Obama plays phone tag, but he is always it. Find out which member of Congress hung up on him not once, but twice today.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Tonight, our NO BIAS, NO BULL interview with former British Prime Minister Tony Blair, who has one of the hardest jobs in the world these days. Blair a special envoy to the Middle East, representing the U.S., Russia, the European Union, and the United Nations, collectively known as the Quartet.
And he joined me a little bit ago from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Prime Minister Blair, welcome to you.
TONY BLAIR, FORMER BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Thank you.
BROWN: You have said that your new role has actually given you a better understanding of the situation in the Middle East than you had as prime minister. So, share what you know with our new president- elect. What is the number-one thing you have learned that he needs to know?
BLAIR: Well, I wouldn't, first of all, presume to give him advice. I'm sure he's worked it out himself very well.
But I think the key thing I have learned, really, is that, if we want peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians -- and we do desperately -- it's hugely important for the whole region and the world -- then the only way we're going to get it is to create a reality on the ground that supports a political negotiation.
And, by that, I mean a reality in which Israel feels that, in the Palestinians, it's a genuine and secure partner to cease, and the Palestinians feel that Israel will indeed lift the occupation, get out of their territory, and let them run a state.
BROWN: On January 20, president-elect Obama is going to inherit two wars. He's pledged to pull combat troops out of Iraq within 16 months. Do you support that timetable?
BLAIR: I think it's very important that the president-elect pursues the policy upon which he was elected, and also that you do have a situation where, ultimately, because I think this is what everyone wants to see, the Iraqis take responsibility for their own security.
BROWN: But let me go back to the question I asked you before about timetables. That was what he argued during the campaign.
But do you believe now, given from where you sit, given your position looking at this, that a timetable now would be helpful?
BLAIR: But, Campbell, I'm dealing with the Israel/Palestine role now. I'm not going to back into my old role as prime minister.
And, as I said to you earlier, I'm sure he will take the responsible and right decisions for the future on this. But my focus and frankly where I have been and therefore where I'm most qualified to talk about is in relation to the Israelis and the Palestinians.
BROWN: I completely agree, but I'm going to ask you, though, to be a little reflective.
BLAIR: You're going to have another go.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: Well, just in terms of the big picture, because you have had...
BLAIR: Yes.
BROWN: You have been out of office and you have had a time to reflect on some of the decisions. Obama has long argued that the war in Iraq caused the U.S. and its allies, including the U.K., to lose sight of the deteriorating conditions in Afghanistan.
Do you agree with that assessment, though, that there was a loss of focus there, given the attention given to Iraq?
BLAIR: Well, look, I took certain decisions then, and there's really no point in going back over them now.
The one thing I would say is that, actually, for the last year, British and American forces and the forces of other nations have been doing their best in extraordinarily difficult circumstances in order to bring about stability in Afghanistan.
Now, I think, again, he's absolutely right in saying that we need to redouble our efforts there. It's a very fragile situation.
But my point to you is actually bigger than that. And, you know, as I say, I don't really want to go back over the past and reargue all those decisions out, even for the purposes of reflection. My point to you is very simple, though. All of these issues form part of the same picture.
And in the end, there's one battle going on outside of our world, but in that region, and in that world, and it is a battle between those who want peaceful coexistence. Those who in any of these countries, Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Lebanon, any of the countries, Pakistan, those who want to be part of the modern world and those who don't want peaceful coexistence, who want conflict, who see their religion, their faith as a means of separating them from others. Now that's the battle in the end.
And you can go back over the decisions that have been taken in the past. Actually what is more important now is to plot our way through the future.
BROWN: You mentioned Pakistan, because it's certainly in the headlines right now. The recent attacks in Mumbai. How concerned are you given what you're dealing with in the Middle East that we could have another conflict in Asia concerning two nuclear powers, India and Pakistan?
BLAIR: I'm very concerned, but again the same forces are in play. If you look at the terrible atrocities that happened in Mumbai, I mean, that happened by the same type of terrorists with the same ideology and the same completely perverted belief that somehow their religion compels them to do this.
And if we want to resolve this, then we're going to have to partner those countries like India, indeed, the modern and moderate elements within Pakistan who want to defeat this extremism. The way to defeat is the mixture of hard and soft power.
BROWN: Prime Minister Blair, thank you.
BLAIR: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Prime Minister Tony Blair with us tonight.
Tomorrow, a young woman whose story touched people's hearts all over the world and whose bravery saved a little boy's life. They are safe today but in the horror of the Mumbai massacre, the nanny found him standing, sobbing next to the bodies of his mother and father. Daring the terrorists to shoot her, she carried this little boy to safety, and for the first time, she's talking on camera about her extraordinary act. See it here, her interview tomorrow, at 8:00 p.m. Eastern Time on NO BIAS, NO BULL. So what would you do if the president-elect called you personally for a little chat? A Florida congresswoman hung up on him twice. You'll hear the excuse. It's a classic. That's coming up next on the PDB.
And then later, the sequel to one of our favorite moments on the campaign. You remember this?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHILDREN: I said you can vote however you like.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: That's right. This video by some Atlanta school kids went viral. Well, coming up, we have the new one. You're not going to want to miss it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KYLEE WATNICK, 4TH GRADER AT BESWICK ELEMENTARY SCHOOL: Dear President-Elect Obama, my name is Kylee and I'm a fourth grade student at Beswick Elementary in Tustin, California. I hope that you love working as our president. Too bad you can't start today, huh? This election was the first time I was old enough to discuss different parts of the election with my family and at school. I talked with my mom and step-dad the entire election night about why I would vote for you if I could vote. I wanted you to know even if George Washington or Teddy Roosevelt who are my favorite presidents, were on the ballot, I would have still voted for you. Sincerely, Kylee Watnick.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Just nine years old, and she knows her presidents. All across the country, kids like Kylee are writing letters to the president-elect. If you have a letter from one of your children you want to share with us just look for the I-Report link on our Web site, cnn.com/campbellbrown.
So what are people dishing about tonight in the political world? Missing ballots, missing whiskers, and a phone mix-up you won't believe. It's all in our PDB, "The Political Daily Briefing" provided by CNN contributor and "Washington Post" national political correspondent Dana Milbank.
Dana, topping tonight's PDB, you may have thought the Bushes would go straight to their Crawford, Texas ranch after their White House days were over but today we learned First Lady Laura Bush has quite a different plan.
DANA MILBANK, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, remember all the noise the president made about how he wanted to retire to the ranch and go fishing. And he called it a little slice of heaven. Apparently heaven can wait. The first lady let slip today that in fact the first couple is going to move to Dallas, which confirms my suspicion that all along, this whole business about clearing brush was for show.
BROWN: Eight years of clearing brush for show?
MILBANK: Yes. They brought it in on helicopter just so he could clear it out.
BROWN: All right.
We'll see. Well, as they plan their exit, Obama, of course, continues to plan his entrance. And today, he had some fun with his newest Cabinet nominee.
MILBANK: He did. Apparently Bill Richardson has decided it's time to come clean. He showed up for the press conference with nary a whisker on his chinny-chin-chin. This is quite a bit different than how he looked on the campaign trail in the fall. And the president- elect was not pleased with what he saw.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENT-ELECT: I think it was a mistake for him to get rid of it. I thought that whole western -- rugged look was really working for him.
For some reason, maybe because it was scratchy when he kissed his wife, he was forced to get rid of it. But we're deeply disappointed with the loss of the beard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MILBANK: Well, Campbell, I think the whole beard thing was a misunderstanding. Richardson heard that Obama wanted a Cabinet like Lincoln's. And he misunderstood that that Obama wanted Cabinet secretaries who actually looked like Lincoln.
BROWN: I had forgotten what he looked like clean-shaven. I like it. I like it.
OK, so, moving on. Senate race in Minnesota getting closer and closer. The never ending recount continues. Today, a new twist. They found some nearly 200 uncounted ballots?
MILBANK: Who knew? Minnesota has pretty much sealed its reputation as the new Florida. Still counting. One county found to be precise, 171 ballots that just happened to get lost in a machine that malfunctioned. The counting throughout the state goes on for a few more days, then it is over to the canvass board, then the inevitable lawsuit. I think they should just cut their losses, bring in Katherine Harris and have her declare a winner right now.
BROWN: All right. And finally, this is an unbelievable story. And this happened just a short time ago. A congresswoman gets a call from President-Elect Obama and she hangs up on him.
MILBANK: There was this problem with Sarah Palin and the Canadian impersonators who fooled her into thinking they were the French president.
BROWN: I remember.
MILBANK: So everybody is wary. It's understandable that when the Congresswoman Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, a Florida Republican, got a call from this guy saying he's Barack Obama, she hung up on him. Thought it was a South Florida radio station.
Then this guy claiming to be Rahm Emanuel, his chief of staff, calls back to try to put Obama on the phone. Hangs up on them again.
Finally, she accepts the call on third time, but she's still pretty wary, and she tells the president-elect he does a really mean Barack Obama impersonation.
BROWN: I love it. I love it. OK. Dana Milbank with us tonight with the PDB and all the details, as always, Dana, thanks.
MILBANK: Thanks, Campbell.
BROWN: Coming up, on a far more serious note, we're going to talk about the Wal-Mart story. Is Wal-Mart to blame for the frenzy that left a worker dead in a crush of shoppers last week? It seems like an open and shut case, but it's not. We're going to have the latest on the case we have all been talking about for days now. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: The family of a Wal-Mart worker killed in a crush of Black Friday shoppers filed a lawsuit against the company. They charged the store on New York's Long Island quote "engaged in specific marketing and advertising techniques to specifically attract a large crowd and create an environment of frenzy and mayhem."
Randi Kaye has been digging into this story for us all day. I know the family is suing for wrongful death. What do they believe happened, exactly?
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They believe something, Campbell, went very, very wrong. The victim in this case, Jim Atai Damour (ph) had only been working at Wal-Mart for one week. He was hired as a maintenance worker. But because he was a big guy, 6'5", 270 pounds, he was told to help control the storm of shoppers at the door on Black Friday. The only problem, he had no training in crowd control, and the very crowd he was supposed to control trampled him to death.
Now his family is suing the retail giant for pain and suffering and wrongful death. Within minutes, the victim was on the ground. Police say at least 100 people stepped on him and kept shopping. The lawyer representing the family said his windpipe was crushed.
Police said he died of asphyxiation, pressure on his chest from people's feet.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KAYE: Why would the store have this man handling crowd control if he wasn't properly trained for it?
JORDAN HECHT, FAMILY'S LAWYER: I guess they thought his size would somehow make up for the lack of preparedness.
Instead of doing what they should have done by spending the money on properly trained crowd management people ,they used their associated, people who worked in the store to go up there and serve as crowd management personnel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAYE: Jordan Hecht, the family's attorney, says Damour's death could have been prevented. He said the retailer should have been better prepared for massive crowds when advertising 50 inch plasma TVs for about $800 and other items for just a fraction of their price.
BROWN: And Randi, you have seen the lawsuit. What are the specific allegations against Wal-Mart? What have they been accused of exactly? How do you file suit here?
KAYE: The lawsuit isn't very long, but the list is very long. It's about this long of all the failures the family has found on Wal- Mart's part. They say that the retailer failed to provide adequate security and training. Also, that it did nothing to protect overcrowding. It didn't meter the shoppers coming in. Often, retailers during big sales will let maybe 50 or some people in at a time, something like that, not 2,000 at once, which was the case during this tragedy.
The lawsuit says Wal-Mart is guilty of quote, "reckless, grossly negligent disregard for the welfare, health and well-being of the victim."
BROWN: And any response from Wal-Mart yet?
KAYE: Yes. In fact, we called Wal-Mart today. They didn't want to talk on camera but they did issue us this statement. They said, "We consider Mr. Damour, the victim in this case, part of the Wal-Mart family and are saddened by his death. We have been in communication with members of his family to do what we can to help them through this difficult time. Our associates know that when incidents like this occur, we take care of our own."
BROWN: We'll see how this plays out.
KAYE: Yes, we will.
BROWN: Randi Kaye for us tonight. Randi, thanks. So a man is dead, but how do you assign blame in a case like this? Lisa Bloom is going to be here in a second. We'll ask her about this very difficult issue when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: We have been talking about Black Friday, the frenzy at a Long Island Wal-Mart that left a worker dead there last week. A tragedy, but is the store responsible? Does the worker's family have a case against Wal-Mart? Here with some answers for us, Lisa Bloom, anchor for "In Session" on our sister network, TruTV. Hey, Lisa.
LISA BLOOM, TRUTV ANCHOR: Hi, Campbell.
BROWN: As we have been talking about, the family of the man who was killed announced that they are suing not only Wal-Mart but the security company and the owners of the strip mall. Do they have a chance? These are civil suits? But do they have a chance?
BLOOM: Absolutely they do. This is a well established are in the law called premises liability. Just like somebody trips and falls on your property, you can get sued. Wal-Mart can be sued for failing to ensure the safety of people it invites on its property.
In fact, even more so because Wal-Mart is profiting from this event. They're sending out information, advertisements coming to our property at 5:00 a.m. We're going to sell TVs at a third of the price. So they're asking for the crowd to come. The crowds come, injuries result. They should have known about it.
BROWN: And let's talk about a possible criminal case here because police are looking at the store security video. They're trying to identify individuals who may have been involved in his actual death, if they were to be able to say, OK, this person trampled ...
BLOOM: Well, that's right. I mean ...
BROWN: Is there a criminal case?
BLOOM: Absolutely. Again, if you can establish that someone knowingly, and in the criminal law "knowing" is going to be key, did they know they were trampling over a body -- and frankly, they may not have known. They may have been swept up by the crowd, they may have been pushed and shoved by people behind them, that would be a defense, but if they knowingly ran over the body of this man poor man, that's assault, that's battery, that's even negligent homicide. People could be looking at serious charges.
BROWN: And I read that the family also considering suing the police department in Nassau County, saying that they didn't do enough to protect him.
BLOOM: Yes.
BROWN: That seems like a little bit of a reach.
BLOOM: The key there is they're considering. I read the case. They haven't filed yet against the police officers. And I spoke to the police officers. They have not filed. I think that's a little bit of smoke. I don't expect to see a case against the police. They're generally immune civilly from lawsuits of failing to protect. Because think about it, people are unfortunately attacked, assaulted, killed every day. The police can't protect everyone. So we're not going to usually find liability there.
BROWN: Wow. It's amazing it happened in the first place. But maybe this will put a spotlight ...
BLOOM: There could even be punitive damages if they could establish that Wal-Mart knew from other Black Fridays that there were other security incidents and they just didn't have the crowds in place.
BROWN: And knowing the risks were there.
BLOOM: Yes, that's key.
BROWN: Lisa Bloom for us tonight as always. Lisa, thanks. Good to see you.
In just a few moments, politics with Pitt, Brad Pitt. He's Larry King's guest. You know you're going to want to watch that. Check it out at the top of the hour.
And next, a real treat. The Atlanta school kids whose pre- election video went viral. They are back with a new one. We're back after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: In our "Bull's Eye" tonight, some jumpin', jivin', rhymin', rhythmin' kids we first met in the campaign. The election is over, of course, but as David Mattingly found out, these kids haven't slowed down one little beat.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When the candidates were slugging it out, these kids spoke up. And who couldn't help but smile?
CHILDREN: You can vote however you like ...
MATTINGLY: Sixth and seventh graders from Atlanta's Ron Clark Academy showed the country they had a better grasp of the issues than a lot of adults. Their rap song about the virtues of voting rocketed them onto national TV and grabbed millions of clicks on YouTube.
(on camera): So after all that success, the kids were faced with one big question? What do we do next? The answer was come up with another song and take all this attention they have been getting and turn it into political clout.
CHILDREN: Iraq can stay strong on their own ...
MATTINGLY (voice-over): The new song is Dear Obama. A letter to the president-elect, and they're taking on all the tough issues.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please pay off all our debts to China
MATTINGLY: There's advice about the economy.
CHILDREN: Tax cuts for the middle class
OSEI AVRIL, RON CLARK ACADEMY STUDENT: I believe deregulation of these big businesses is the main cause for us to go into this economic crisis.
MATTINGLY: All of this tough enough to write about, even tougher to rap about.
KENNEDY GUEST-PRITCHETT, RON CLARK CADEMY STUDENT: We couldn't find anything to ride with Ahmadinejad.
MATTINGLY: But for the kids, the election, the results, and their cameo role in all of it was a life changing lesson.
UNIDENTIFIEED FEMALE: Barack Obama, he broke the barrier for us. Now we feel since he did it, we can do it as well.
MATTINGLY (on camera): All right. Now that Obama has been elected, how many of you believe now you have the chance to become president.
(voice-over): So who knows? A future president could be performing right here. But for now, if the president-elect is listening, they say they will all settle for an invitation to perform at the inauguration.
(SINGING)
MATTINGLY: David Mattingly, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And they are great. We're going to be back in a moment with a Christiane Amanpour investigation. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: This month marks the 60th anniversary of a UN treaty meant to put an end to genocide forever. It was signed in response to the death of 6 million Jews during the Holocaust. But in the years since millions have died in the killing fields of Rwanda, Iraq, Bosnia, Cambodia and Darfur. Our chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour reports on the horrifying genocide in Rwanda and how it all began.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): General Romeo Delaire (ph), the head of UN forces in Rwanda knew that trouble was coming. For months, the UN commander in Rwanda had warned his bosses in New York that Hutu extremists were arming and training militias. Then on April 6, 1994, the plane carrying the presidents of Rwanda and neighboring Burundi was shot down, a double assassination. This was the moment the Hutu plotters had been waiting for. The death of the president was the start point, the signal?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
AMANPOUR: Colonel Eneste Bagosora (ph), a Hutu extremist, immediately declared the Army in charge.
Within hours, government troops and civilian death squads began slaughtering Tutsis.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People were literally screaming on the phone, telling us that the militias were at the door. We could hear the people still on the phone as they were busting down the doors and opening fire.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): We started hearing people screaming outside.
AMANPOUR: Efugenia Mukantabana (ph) lived in a rural hilltop village when the genocide erupted. And then what do you remember.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): What I remember is that they killed people. The women and girls were raped, and we saw it all. The men and boys were beaten and slaughtered.
AMANPOUR: As the mob came closer, she and her husband and her children split up and fled. Their home was destroyed.
(on camera): Those are the rocks from your house.
(voice-over): As Efugenia hid in the forest, her neighbors, Hutus she had lived with all of her life, killed her husband and five of her children.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: An important piece, CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR REPORTS, "Scream Bloody Murder." It airs tomorrow night at 9:00 Eastern Time.
And that does it for us tonight. LARRY KING LIVE with Brad Pitt starts right now.
