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Campbell Brown

Illinois Governor Arrested; Obama and Gore Discuss Green Future

Aired December 09, 2008 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everybody.
Incredible, stunning, unbelievable, all words heard today about the charges against the one man with the power to name president-elect Obama's replacement in the Senate.

Bullet point number one tonight: Illinois Governor Blagojevich is out on bail. He asked the agents who arrested him in morning if they were joking. But it was no prank. Blagojevich is accused of putting Obama's old job up for sale to the highest bidder. Authorities say he even considered appointing himself to the Senate as a way to cash in even more.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PATRICK FITZGERALD, STATE'S ATTORNEY FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ILLINOIS: The conduct would make Lincoln roll over in his grave.

The governor's own words describing the Senate seat -- quote -- "It's a bleeping valuable thing -- thing. You just don't give it away for nothing."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: You have got to hear what else the feds have to say about him.

Plus, Obama himself talking about the bombshell, you will hear that, too.

And now other Illinois officials and the state's most important newspaper calling for Blagojevich to step down.

Bullet point number two tonight: Senator Larry Craig, who saw his reputation flushed down the drain after a notorious visit to an airport restroom, well, Craig's attempt to rewrite history failed again today. Dana Milbank is going to tell us what happened in the "PDB," our "Political Daily Briefing."

And bullet number three tonight: Obama and vice president-elect Joe Biden sat down today with former Vice President Al Gore. Does that mean the man behind "An Inconvenient Truth" could return to government to fight global warming?

Tonight, bestselling author Thomas Friedman makes the case for going green and making some green. He will be with us for a NO BIAS, NO BULL interview. He's got some strong words about the proposed auto bailout we will tell you about as well.

But, first, as always, we're "Cutting Through The Bull." And this is an easy one tonight, folks, four words: Are you kidding me? Selling Barack Obama's Senate seat, are you kidding me?

There are allegations of political corruption, and then there are allegations of political corruption. If this is true -- and by all means we should presume innocence here until the prosecution has made its case -- but, if this is true, you have to be some kind of delusional. You have to be psychotic. You have to be truly unhinged. Selling Barack Obama's seat to the highest bidder?

That is the allegation, along with a few choice others. I can't do it justice. You should hear straight from the horse's mouth. And once again, that would be U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald. You will remember him, of course, from the Scooter Libby investigation.

And he is -- I hear he is, rather, today getting another bit of the 15 minutes of fame apple and I will tell you this is riveting to watch. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FITZGERALD: This is a sad day for government. It's a very sad day for Illinois government. Governor Blagojevich has taken us to a truly new low.

Governor Blagojevich has been arrested in the middle of what we can only describe as a political corruption crime spree. We acted to stop that crime spree.

The most appalling conduct Governor Blagojevich engaged in, according to the complaint filed today or unsealed today, is that he attempted to sell a Senate seat, the Senate seat he had the sole right to under Illinois to appoint to replace president-elect Obama.

And, finally, we should also note that the governor talked about appointing himself to the Senate seat for reasons not having to do with the better welfare of the citizens of Illinois.

He wanted to do it to avoid impeachment in the Illinois legislature for his conduct. He wanted to do it to have access to greater financial resources, if he were indicted. He wanted to do it to see if he could help his wife work as a lobbyist. He wanted to do it to remake his image to run for office in 2016, and he wanted to do it to see if he could generate speaking fees.

At the end of the day, the conduct we have before us is appalling.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So, is he talking about the governor of Illinois or Tony Soprano here?

Drew Griffin was in the courtroom today when the governor was arraigned.

And, Drew, I was reading that, when the FBI actually showed up at his door today, he reportedly asked if this was a joke. Walk us through how all of this happened.

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: It sounds like "The Sopranos" -- 6:15 this morning, the governor gets a phone calls from an FBI agent, working him up, saying, Governor, I have got a warrant for your address and those two guys knocking on your door right now, Governor, are FBI agents ready to take you into custody.

That how it went down and simultaneously with his chief of staff, John Harris. The governor apparently just acquiesced, went along with them no problem, and the next we saw him was in that courtroom, where he stepped into the courtroom, Campbell, wearing a jogging suit. It was a surreal scene.

BROWN: (AUDIO GAP) not the only charge against the governor. Walk us through what else the governor is facing.

GRIFFIN: It's a two-count indictment -- I shouldn't say indictment -- it's a two-count complaint and the two counts ad up to a maximum of 30 years.

These are very serious charges and they date back almost to the moment, November 2002, when this guy was elected -- elected to replace the current former Illinois governor, who is sitting in jail, was an anti-corruption kind of campaign. It was a pay-to-play scheme in which everything seemed to be on the field.

Selling of Wrigley Field, the state would help, if "The Chicago Tribune" would get rid of some journalists that were critical of the governor. There was state road projects apparently up for sale. There was an $8 million donation or tax-supported funding for a children's hospital that would be granted in exchange for a political contribution, all of this apparently part of the investigation.

But the most stunning, Campbell, is that even after the governor knew the feds were after them, this activity allegedly continued. Just last week, the announcement was made in the media here in Chicago that even the governor's phones were tapped.

Here's what the governor said just yesterday about the tapping of his phones.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ROD BLAGOJEVICH (D), ILLINOIS: I think there's nothing but sunshine hanging over me. Let me answer that.

True question is -- and, by the way, I should say, if anybody wants to tape my conversations, go right ahead. Feel free to do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: This is a governor who has been called arrogant, a guy who walks with a swagger and bravado, who thinks he's above everybody else.

I just point to that tape just yesterday, the day before he's arrested.

BROWN: And, Drew, I know we said before you were in the courtroom today and you noted that he is still acting extraordinarily confident.

GRIFFIN: Exactly, walking in, nodding his head at strangers as if he's a celebrity.

And right after the appearance was done, he actually walked over, shakes hands with the prosecutor there, before the U.S. marshal grabs him and hustles him away.

BROWN: All right, Drew Griffin with us tonight with the very latest -- Drew, thanks very much.

The U.S. attorney, as we pointed out earlier, made it clear president-elect Obama is not accused of any wrongdoing. This afternoon, Obama said that he had had no contact with Governor Blagojevich about the open Senate seat.

Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENT-ELECT: Obviously, like the rest of the people of Illinois, I am saddened and sobered by the news that came out of the U.S. attorney's office today. But as this is a ongoing investigation involving the governor, I don't think it will be appropriate for me to comment on the issue at this time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So, as you heard there, very limited comments from the president-elect. And that left, frankly, a lot of unanswered questions.

Jessica Yellin is covering the Obama transition in Chicago tonight.

And, Jessica, I know that they did have a relationship. Obama was an adviser to Blagojevich early on when he ran for governor first. What was the reaction just in the Obama camp among his team today to this news?

JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's a lot of anxious concern and a lot of silence.

Campbell, as you can imagine, this is not exactly what the Obama team wants right now as they're trying to build a government. At the very least, it's an unwelcome distraction. And they are being very tight-lipped. They're deferring to Barack Obama and his statement that he personally did not have any contact with Blagojevich about the open Senate seat. But that, as you point out, leaves many unanswered questions about whether anyone in his team may have had contact with Blagojevich's office in general -- Campbell.

BROWN: And, Jessica, to that point, because the complaint suggests that Blagojevich was stymied in his efforts to get anything out of the Obama team. So, it would seem, just from that, that there was some sort of conversation that may have taken place on Obama's team and the governor.

Do we know at all if there were any contacts, or have they just been completely silent about this?

YELLIN: Stony silence.

I have asked many people in the Obama world, people who are both working with him on the transition and people who would be in a position to know, and just simply said, look, it seems unlikely that anyone in your universe would not have made contact with the sitting governor of the state that the president-elect is in. Did anybody have any contact with the Blagojevich office?

And no one is answering that question. I continue to press it. And, of course, I will tell you as soon as I get anything. But even if they did have contact, there's no suggestion that they did anything wrong.

It does seem unlikely, or at least there's a suggestion, as you say, in the complaint that Blagojevich did get some sort of information or pushback from the Obama team because the federal prosecutor does say that Blagojevich complains at one point that he's not going to get anything out of Obama, except appreciation.

So, something seems unanswered.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Exactly.

And, then, just to clarify something from earlier, I know there was a contradiction in something that the president-elect said vs. something that what had heard from one of his top aides.

YELLIN: Right.

David Axelrod, who is one of Obama's closest advisers, was on a local news channel late last month and told a local news person that Barack Obama had directly spoken to Rod Blagojevich, the governor, about the open Senate seat.

Well, that contradicts what Obama said today. And so David Axelrod has come out with a statement saying that he misspoke, that there was no direct contact between Obama and Blagojevich. So, he's fallen on the sword on that one.

Again, it raises a lot of questions. And I need to, though, underscore that at no point is there any discussion, Campbell, that there was any wrongdoing by anybody close to Obama or by Obama. It just it seems that there might be some more contacts that we could learn about in the coming days -- Campbell.

BROWN: All right, Jessica Yellin for us tonight from Chicago -- Jessica, appreciate it. Thanks very much.

Today's corruption charges just the tip of the iceberg, what we have told you so far. A lot more on this story you will see when we come back.

And we have got Jeffrey Toobin, Gloria Borger, Roland Martin with us after the break to talk about all this.

Also ahead, Tom Friedman with some very strong words for the automakers. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THOMAS FRIEDMAN, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": They came to Washington, flew in on their private jets and basically said, give me money or I will bleed to death on your doorstep.

OK. What kind of message is that?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And Jay Leno's new job, changing prime-time television. We're going to Leno's reaction in our bullseye tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Not only did the governor of Illinois allegedly attempt to sell a Senate seat. He blasted the president-elect and his team for not playing along, apparently, pretty stunning.

Listen to what U.S. attorney Patrick Fitzgerald had to say about that today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FITZGERALD: But after the deal never happened, this is the governor's reaction -- quote -- "They're not willing to give me anything but appreciation. Bleep them" -- close quote. And again, the bleep is a redaction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So, here to talk more about the charges against Governor Rod Blagojevich is CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin, CNN political analyst Roland Martin, and CNN senior political analyst Gloria Borger.

Welcome, everybody.

Jeff, let me start with you and just ask about that last comment, because Jessica Yellin was with us from transition headquarters a moment ago and she said she's been pressing the Obama team, trying to get a little clarification on what this means. Again, to underscore, as we will throughout the night, Obama is by no means charged with any wrongdoing in any of this.

But based on what was said there, it sounds like there was some communication of some sort between someone on Obama's team and the governor, doesn't it? Am I crazy?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR ANALYST: Well, there had to be, because Blagojevich is complaining about the Obama people saying, they don't want to play ball with me.

Now, that's certainly good for the Obama folks. But it does raise the question, what kind of interaction was there? It sounds like the Obama people are recognizing there is no upside for them into getting involved with the details of this situation. So, they're simply not answering questions.

The problem is, when it comes to a trial or at some point, they are going to have to answer these questions. What was the relationship?

BROWN: And also if there was communication or some sort of conversation, you wonder why perhaps they didn't pick up a phone and call the FBI and say, hey, you know, I'm getting...

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Am I taking it a step too far?

TOOBIN: Well, it depends what they heard. It depends whether they actually heard evidence of a crime. If they simply had interactions about who should be the next senator, there was no reason to call the FBI.

But if it was an extortion, a bribery situation, then they should have called.

BROWN: Roland, what do you make of all this?

ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, first of all, you have local reporters who have been digging into this, and they say -- one particular affiliate here is reporting that indeed folks in the Obama campaign did contact the U.S. attorney's office to say, hey, here's something not right going on in terms of what we hear from the governor's office.

And, so, all kinds of things are out there. I think -- look, from the Obama campaign, look, the smartest thing to say is, no comment right now until you talk to everybody on your team to find out who talked to the governor's office, if they did or not, because the last thing you want to come out and say, we didn't talk to him, but then we did talk to him. Well, that person really didn't represent me.

No, so you don't want to have any conversation right now until you are straight as to what happened.

BROWN: You agree with that, Gloria?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, I do.

I think what the Obama team has to do is sort of get together, try and find out who from the Obama team had any contacts with anybody in the governor's office about this Senate seat. Obama himself has already gone on the record today saying he had no personal contact.

It's very clear that Patrick Fitzgerald went out of his way to say that there was nothing untoward being done by the Obama team or perhaps a lot of these people who wanted to be a United States senator, figure out exactly what conversations were had, and then tell Patrick Fitzgerald about it, because he's the one who is going to have to issue an indictment if it comes to that.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Go ahead.

TOOBIN: Let me just put on my former prosecutor hat in response to what Gloria said. No prosecutor wants the Obama people talking to each other and lining up and getting their stories straight.

(CROSSTALK)

TOOBIN: Now, if there are lawyers on the staff there, which there certainly are, they would want to interview people individually.

But you have to be careful with this stuff. You don't want people lining up their stories, but you also want to know what is going on. Again, it's a distraction.

It's probably not going to amount to much. But you have got to do carefully.

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: But, Jeffrey, they would be speaking to Fitzgerald, as opposed to speaking to us about this, correct?

TOOBIN: Correct, or speaking to a lawyer for the campaign or the now president-elect.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Go ahead, Roland.

MARTIN: And, Campbell, here's a really -- I think an even greater complaint.

In this complaint, it states that Senate candidate number five, if you will, had an emissary that approached the governor's office about raising funds for the governor in exchange for being appointed. And so the question then comes up, of all of those people who are considered the folks on the list, who is that person? Who is the emissary? And so I wouldn't be surprised if you have those individuals, if you have three members of Congress on that list folks are talking about.

BORGER: Right.

MARTIN: And so I'm sure they are in essence -- would be forced to come out and say, hey, nobody with my campaign approached the governor about raising money in exchange for the job.

And so that's a real issue right now, somebody who is sitting in office as we speak.

BROWN: And, Gloria, quickly, let me also ask you, because there are still questions, frankly, about how close Blagojevich and Obama were. Obama and his incoming chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, did at the very least play an advisory role in Blagojevich's campaign. Do you think more general questions about the relationship could haunt Obama?

BORGER: Sure.

You know, those questions are going to be raised. Republicans have already started raising those questions, as one might expect. But -- and I think Roland could speak to this, that Blagojevich and Obama are not known to be close. Senator Dick Durbin today said that he couldn't get his phone calls returned from the governor when he became a senator. So, you are going to see people really distancing themselves from this guy.

BROWN: All right, guys, we got to end it there.

But, to Gloria, to Jeff and to Roland, many thanks. Appreciate it.

When we come back, the very latest on Al Gore's meeting with president-elect Obama today.

We also talked to Tom Friedman, who had some pretty choice words for the automakers.

We will have a lot more when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: Any assistance from Congress would hold the auto industry accountable to a central reform from day one and it would include enforcement capabilities, including strict, immediate accountability and oversight.

SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MAJORITY LEADER: This no blank check or blind hope. If the companies fail to develop a plan that will lead to long-term competitiveness and profitability, they fail to stick to that plan, the loan can be recalled.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: The two Senate leaders today talking about the $15 billion auto bailout plan, Reid trying to bring it to a vote as early as tomorrow.

Earlier, I talked about the crisis in Detroit with Tom Friedman, Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist for "The New York Times." His new book, "Hot, Flat, and Crowded," takes on a lot of environmental issues, including the future of the auto industry.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Let me start by asking you about the auto bailout, because it's what we have all been talking about this week, and you have been extremely critical of the auto industry and the lawmakers who protected the leaders of those companies.

It looks like they are going to get at least some of the bailout money they asked for. What do you make of how Congress is handling it so far?

FRIEDMAN: Well, I have a lot of sympathy for the dilemma that the people in Congress have right now.

Obviously, they don't want to see millions of jobs be lost at this time of vulnerability in the economy. What makes me angry is that we're in this position where we basically have to write Detroit a check, Campbell, because we know, if we don't, they will fail and thousands upon thousands of jobs will be lost.

But what we don't know is, if we do write them the check, that they will actually change, actually produce an industry that is globally competitive, and actually be able to preserve jobs in the long run and won't be back with a tin cup again.

What did these people do? They came to Washington, flew in on their private jets and basically said, give me money or I will bleed to death on your doorstep.

OK. What kind of message is that? Where was the aspirational message? Where were the people coming to Washington to say, I have a vision; I have a dream; in three years we will make better, more environmental, more efficient cars than Detroit -- sorry -- than Toyota; we will clean Toyota's clock; we will clean Honda's clock; I have a vision; I see a great future for us?

No, it was, give me money or I will die on your doorstep.

These are people you want to give money to?

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Is there anything Congress can do to force them, I guess, to try to be more visionary in terms of how they approach it? (CROSSTALK)

FRIEDMAN: Well, that's what is crazy about it.

We're giving them money. They say, we need money to retool, so we can innovate.

Do you know any industry in the world that we have to bribe with $15 billion so they will innovate? If we give them 15 billion more dollars, will they maybe do accounting? OK? Is that the deal here? You have to bribe someone to innovate? Did anyone have to bribe Steve Jobs to invest the Apple iPod?

So, I feel anger because we're in this terrible dilemma. If we don't give them the money, many, many people will be hurt. But if we do give them hard-earned taxpayer dollars that we are charging on our kids' Visa cards -- remember, our kids will pay for this -- I have no assurance and very little trust that these people will actually give us the car of the 21st century.

BROWN: You know, high gas prices killing people over the summer, but now oil is back below $45 a barrel, gas prices the lowest they have been since 2004.

And this goes I think certainly in conjunction with what you're talking about. You think that that's actually bad news, that what everybody, not just the car companies, what we all need is a bit of a motivator. And it would actually be good for us if the prices were a lot higher right now.

FRIEDMAN: Well, and why do European countries have cars with better average mileage, smaller cars? Because they have had very high gasoline taxes. So, they innovated around that.

Detroit all these years fought higher gas prices, created a universe where they could only make money selling SUVs. And now when the price went up, they weren't prepared, basically, with the cars people want. Now the price will go down. They will sit back and say, we can relax now, and continue to make bigger cars.

And you surely know in a world that is hot, flat, and crowded, basically, more and more demand for oil in time, that prices is going to go back up. They will be in the same place. So, what is the point? The point is, unless we have a gasoline tax that brings gasoline on average to around $4 a gallon, that's when we saw real change of behavior, you're not going to get a change of behavior.

BROWN: But would you say, even at this moment, when people are hurting as badly as they are, that this is the moment that Obama, once he takes office, should increase taxes on oil and gas?

FRIEDMAN: Well, what I'm saying is this.

Yes, you should increase the gasoline tax, but it should be revenue neutral. It should be combined with a reduction equal in payroll taxes, so that the total hurt to people is zero. But you are encouraging companies to hire workers and people to work by lowering payroll taxes and you are discouraging them to buy gas-guzzling vehicles by raising gasoline taxes. There's lots of ways to do this.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Tom Friedman has a lot more to say about president-elect Obama's plans for a greener America and for creating more jobs. That is ahead.

Also, more new details from our breaking news tonight, the governor of Illinois accused of being an influence-peddler at the highest level. We're going to hear from one of the men he is accused of targeting.

Also, our "Political Daily Briefing" and an update on another politician in trouble. How can we forget Senator Larry Craig?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: The time for delay is over, the time for denial is over. We all believe what the scientists have been telling us for years now, that this is a matter of urgency and national security, and it has to be dealt with in a serious way. That's what I intend my administration to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: President-elect Obama earlier today, after meeting with Al Gore. He praised the former vice president's green agenda and called global warming an opportunity, as well as a problem.

More now of my conversation with "New York Times"' columnist Tom Friedman. I asked him about Obama's attempt to take on the enormous environmental challenges facing the country and the world we as we lurch into the 21st century.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Let me expand the conversation a little more broadly.

You know, our president-elect, Obama, has proposed what amounts to hundreds of billions of dollars of spending on public works to create new jobs, and some of them green jobs, exactly what your new book says America needs. This is part of what he and Al Gore discussed just today.

Do you think what we know of his plan, do you think it's visionary enough? Do you think he's got the leadership ability to get this done?

TOM FRIEDMAN, AUTHOR, "HOT, FLAT AND CROWDED": I do. I think he definitely has the vision. I've been really impressed with what he's been laying out. I'm totally in sync with all those ideas. I think the real challenge for him at this time is to have means -- OK, that are as radical as its ends. That is, you know, it's great to say we're going to have green jobs and green homes and green collared jobs to re-insulate people's homes, install solar panels. Those jobs won't get taken up unless you change building codes around the country. Let's say to home builders, you want to build this home, it's got to be at these higher efficiency standards. Those technologies won't be taken up.

So, Campbell, I think the challenge for President-elect Obama will be to have the standards, regulations, the means that are as radical as its ends so we can really achieve those ends.

BROWN: But you called this a green revolution and you're not the first who has gone out there for this. But you've been pushing for it a long time. It seems like it never happens, I guess. You know, what's the argument that's finally going to convince people that will cut through this impacts we've had on this issue for so long?

FRIEDMAN: Well, my argument is very simple. In a world that's getting hot, flat and crowded, it's clear to me the next great global industry is going to be energy technology, clean power, clean water, clean energy. It simply has to be otherwise we're not going to survive as a planet.

I know that for sure, Campbell. What I don't know is who's going to own that industry? Is it going to be Europe? Is it going to be China? Is it going to be Japan?

But that is going to be the next great global industry. It has to be.

You know, Jeff Immelt from GE likes to say, if you want to be big as a company or country, you've got to be big in big things. If you want to be big, you've got to be big in big things. Nothing is going to be bigger I think than energy technology. And the country that owns E.T. is going to have the most energy security, economic security, national security, innovative companies, global respect. Campbell, that country has to be the United States of America.

If it is not, the chance of our kids having a standard of living remotely close to ours is zero. Because if we are not big in the biggest thing, there is no way we can pass on our standard of living to our kids. I think President-elect Obama gets that, but he's going to have to pull the country and Congress along to give him all the enabling taxes, standards and regulations to bring that about.

BROWN: Tom Friedman, always good to talk to you. Thanks so much for your time tonight.

FRIEDMAN: A pleasure, Campbell. Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Tomorrow night, Tom Friedman's lively, passionate and thought-provoking look at foreign policy issues facing the next president. That's on "NO BIAS, NO BULL" tomorrow.

And when we return, more on Governor Rod Blagojevich. The inside story of his downfall from two journalists who covered the governor, one of whom he tried to get fired.

Plus, last night we told you about the sit-in by laid off workers at a southern factory. Tonight, a new development that could end the standoff.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: You may never have heard of Governor Rod Blagojevich before today. So later, we're going to take a look at the man and his history. The man accused of selling or trying to sell Barack Obama's Senate seat.

First though, Randi Kaye joins us with "The Briefing"-- Randi.

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What a story that is, Campbell?

Just yesterday, that very same governor, in fact, took on Bank of America for not helping a Chicago factory stay open. And tonight, there is word the financial giant is offering to extend credit to the owner of that window factory. That move could help end the sit-in by more than 200 workers who say they're not getting severance pay they are owed by law.

Late word tonight from Alaska. Someone sent a letter with suspicious white power to the office of governor and former vice presidential candidate, Sarah Palin. So far, no reason to think the powder is dangerous. Governors in seven other states have received similar letters this week.

New rioting in Greece on the day a 15-year-old boy shot by Athens police was buried. The fighting rage for a fourth day in several cities. Amnesty International is accusing Greek police of violence against peaceful demonstrators.

The body of a fourth victim, a toddler, has been found in the wreckage of yesterday's military jet crash in San Diego. The toddler's mother, grandmother and 2-month old sister were also killed. The pilot was attempting an emergency landing. An official says both the fighter plane's engines failed.

BROWN: All right. Randi, thanks very much. Appreciate that.

When we come back in a moment, we go beyond the alleged price tag on Barack Obama's old Senate seat. You're going to hear directly from a man who may have been illegally targeted for payback by the governor of Illinois.

And Idaho's Larry Craig went looking for support today after police say the senator went looking for something else in an airport men's room. Details in our "Political Daily Briefing."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: Our breaking news tonight. Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich arrested this morning on charges of trying to cash in on Barack Obama's Senate replacement. Outside of Illinois, most people probably have never heard of him until today. Tonight, more on who this guy is and what made him or may have made him do all of this alleged influence peddling.

Gary Tuchman in Chicago tonight with that story -- Gary.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Campbell, I came to Chicago yesterday to cover the occupation at the window factory and got a chance to talk to the governor. He was happy. He was smiling. He seemed relax, and that's why it was quite stunning to wake up today and hear these allegations about him. But for many people who live here in the state of Illinois and see many sorry political spectacles, it wasn't all that shocking.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TUCHMAN (voice-over): On the day before he was arrested, Rod Blagojevich was supporting laid off Chicago factory workers and playing tough guy toward authorities who have been investigating him for years.

GOV. ROD BLAGOJEVICH (D), ILLINOIS: I don't care whether you take me privately or publicly, I can tell you that what whatever I say is always lawful.

TUCHMAN: But the authorities feel oh so differently.

PATRICK FITZGERALD, US ATTY. NORTHERN DISTRICT ILLINOIS: Governor Blagojevich has taken us to a truly new low. Governor Blagojevich has been arrested in the middle of what we can only describe as a political corruption crime spree.

TUCHMAN: The first Democrat to be elected governor of Illinois in three decades was taped all right. The allegations against him stunned even reporters steeped in Illinois' sorry history of corrupt politics.

RICK PEARSON, "CHICAGO TRIBUNE": It just defies explanation.

TUCHMAN: Rick Pearson has been a political reporter with the "Chicago Tribune" for 20 years. He says in the first year of Blagojevich's first term, he made an effort to be a reasonable governor.

BLAGOJEVICH: I support the governor's decision on the moratorium.

TUCHMAN: Blagojevich's backed the moratorium on the death penalty, supported by previous Republican Governor George Ryan, imprisoned now because of his own political troubles. After Blagojevich's first year, he started making a lot of enemies, not just Republicans but his fellow Democrats. PEARSON: He's a very difficult person to try to figure out. People were always asking about, will Blagojevich do X or do Y, and somehow he'll end up doing Z.

TUCHMAN: A "Chicago Tribune" poll on October showed the governor's approval rating at 13 percent. But even recently, the governor, who used to be a state representative and congressman, characterized himself as a popular guy when talking about who he would pick to fill Barack Obama's Senate seat.

BLAGOJEVICH: I've never had more friends than I do today and when I make the final decision, I won't have nearly as many as I have now.

Thank you very much. God bless all of you.

TUCHMAN: Blagojevich made some politicians so mad that one Democratic state senator said he would have kicked his tail end if an argument ahead was in a tavern. Some have questioned whether Blagojevich is stable.

In a Chicago magazine article, Democratic state Representative Joe Lyons told reporters the governor was "insane." And another Democrat, Representative Jack Franks, says he has "delusions of grandeur."

PEARSON: A lot of people have raised a number of questions including fellow Democrats, including I believe the spokesman for the House -- Democratic House speaker, you know, wondering if there isn't some kind of psychological imbalance going on.

TUCHMAN: Only hours before his arrest, a smiling governor declared --

BLAGOJEVICH: I don't believe there's any cloud that hangs over me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Getting back to that --

BLAGOJEVICH: I think there's a lot of sunshine hanging over me.

TUCHMAN: It should be noted when he was taken into custody, there was no sun to be seen in Chicago's gloomy sky.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TUCHMAN: And it still is snowing outside. Not everyone is shocked about this, but it is a big story. The "Chicago Tribune" and the "Chicago Sun-Times" have come out with extra editions today, headline being "Arrested."

Should be noted that in 2006, the governor did win re-election, so he is tough enough to get a second term. But his popularity ratings started to plunge after he was re-elected in 2006 and obviously now, Campbell, they have reached a low point.

BROWN: Yes. I'm imagining so.

Gary Tuchman for us tonight from Chicago. Gary, thanks very much.

So did anybody see this coming? Well, it turns out people who know the governor well are neither shocked nor terribly surprised, especially at the "Chicago Tribune." Blagojevich allegedly felt that that newspaper was out to get him and he was out to get "The Tribune." Listen to part of the federal affidavit against him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PATRICK FITZGERALD, U.S. ATTORNEY, NO. DISTRICT, ILLINOIS: And Governor Blagojevich and defendant John Harris, his chief of staff, schemed to send a message to the "Chicago Tribune" and the governor's words, "Fire all of those bleeping people. Get them the bleep out of there and get us some editorial support." And the bleeps are not really bleeps.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And let's now get the inside story from "Chicago Tribune" deputy editorial page editor, John McCormick, a frequent critic of Blagojevich, and Jim Warren, "The Tribune's" former managing editor.

Welcome, guys. John, let me start with you. Clearly, some pretty tough words coming from the governor saying that you all should be fired. But you had been pretty tough on him in some of your writings.

I just want to share with our viewers a couple of lines from an editorial that you wrote last month about filling Obama's Senate seat. An editorial that has said to have really pushed him to the edge, I guess.

And you wrote, "If the governor uses this pick to award an ally or a flunky, that miserable unfortunate will spend two years riding alongside Blagojevich on the down escalator of public opinion. There is no political future in being marked as Li'l Rod."

So were you shocked to hear that the governor of Illinois was out plotting to get you fired? Did you know he was so angry with you and the paper?

JOHN MCCORMICK, "CHICAGO TRIBUNE": If, in fact, you know, we're dealing in the world of allegedlies here, Campbell.

BROWN: Absolutely. You're absolutely right.

MCCORMICK: We have a criminal complaint to work with but the governor gets to defend himself and as of now he's an innocent man. We knew nothing about anything, anything alleged in the government's complaint. We knew nothing about an effort to get the editorial board fired, you know, any one of us fired. Nothing.

BROWN: Jim -- MCCORMICK: So, yes.

BROWN: A total shock for you, I guess?

MCCORMICK: A total surprise. And, you know, I'm just -- I'm really I'm grateful for that. If, in fact, pressure was put on this company, this newspaper had what's obviously a difficult time for our industry. It didn't work. You know, if he tried -- someone tried to muscle us, it went nowhere.

BROWN: Jim, you've known Blagojevich for quite some time. A lot of people say he should have seen it coming. I mean, just yesterday he told reporters he had nothing to hide, that they were free to tape his conversations. What was that all about? Give us a sense of the kind of guy he is.

JIM WARREN, FMR. "CHICAGO TRIBUNE" MANAGING EDITOR: Well, I mean, I've known him for a long time, Campbell. When we knew one another, you and I in D.C., I knew Blagojevich rather well. He was a congressman for a couple of terms but very, very quickly. About five minutes after he got to Washington, he sort of wanted out.

And, you know, he occasionally misspoke of running for president of the United States. He even mentions that on some of these tapes.

Did I know back then that he was as compulsive and as reckless and as brazen as he comes off in these tapes? No. And one has to remember to put this in the context that some of your guests have, we are in about the fifth year, correct me if I'm wrong, John McCormick, fifth year of a well-known federal investigation into his administration.

Campbell, there have been 13 people who've been indicted or convicted. The smoke has been all around the governor, and you would think he would at least be smart enough to do what, you know, Tony Soprano or somebody in that situation would do.

Keep those private conversations to the nearest empty parking lot or a street corner, not in your house. It's the naivete, and I'm not going to play amateur shrink here. The naivete, which some might say is all mixed with a certain kind of self-delusion, is really stunning.

BROWN: And quickly, John, how is this playing at "The Tribune"? You know, according to the complaint, the owner of "The Tribune" "got the message," meaning that he knew the governor wanted you fired. I mean, have you spoken with people there around the place to try to figure out what had happened?

MCCORMICK: It's not clear. I have no idea, Campbell, if anything actually did get communicated. Where people, you know, where people bragging to the governor that they had sent a message? You know, where they play-kidding him? I really don't know.

I have been told -- I work for a man named Bruce Dold, who's the editor of the editorial pages. I know he got no pressure, no mention, no whisper, no nothing. That's not meant to be cute wording, but we knew nothing about this.

Gerry Kern, our editor of the paper, also says no contact, no nothing. So within the editorial department, not just the editorial board...

BROWN: Right.

MCCORMICK: ... we didn't know about.

WARREN: Well, can I say --

BROWN: Yes. Go ahead, Jim.

WARREN: Can I just say as a former nominal superior of John's in the hierarchy there, it was pretty clear to me how absolutely thin- skinned Rod was. Rod Blagojevich does not have a reputation for being a workaholic. It is frequent to see him coming, running down or up and down my block on the north side of Chicago in the middle of the afternoon, even when the legislature is in session hundreds of miles away. And the one day I stumbled into a jog with him for three or four miles in I think the past year, year and a half, and he was pretty unvarnished in his, you know, contempt for lots of folks and his chagrin...

BROWN: Right.

WARREN: ... over the editorial board which, back then, included my own wife, Cornelia Grumman, who had, you know, written as John Nelson, tough things about Blagojevich...

BROWN: Right.

WARREN: ... and had been the object of a cutting remark or two before an appearance before the editorial board.

BROWN: Well, guys, unfortunately, we're out of time. We got to end it there. We'll see how all of this plays out I'm sure in the days and weeks ahead.

Many thanks, John McCormick and Jim Warren.

MCCORMICK: Thanks, Campbell.

BROWN: Appreciate your time tonight.

WARREN: Thanks, Campbell.

BROWN: So his book isn't even out yet and guess who is dishing dirt? The man John McCain made famous as "Joe the Plumber." Find out what Joe found "appalling."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: It's been a busy day in politics, but we're not done yet. We still got our "PDB," the "Political Daily Briefing." As always, we turn to CNN contributor, Dana Milbank, national political correspondent for the "Washington Post" with the very latest.

And, Dana, topping tonight's "PDB" presidential election clearly over but "Joe the Plumber" still making some news and this time, apparently criticizing John McCain.

DANA MILBANK, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes. Say it ain't so, Campbell. "Joe the Plumber," he was plucked from obscurity to become this main prop of John McCain's campaign. Now he says he is appalled by the former Republican nominee.

He told FOX News today that McCain's thoughts on the Wall Street bailout were so appalling to him that he thought of getting right off the Straight Talk Express. He said the whole idea of the campaign made him feel dirty. And for a guy who spends his days snaking out drains, that is really saying something about the state of politics.

BROWN: Yes. I'll say.

It didn't take long on another subject for Governor Blagojevich -- after he was arrested today for people on the Internet to try to spin the story for their own amusement. Tell us what you found.

MILBANK: Yes. I mean, Blagojevich himself may have been led off in handcuffs but his free market principles live on. All over eBay today, there were postings of people pretending to sell the seat. One of them said, "The seat is in near mint condition. The last owner of this particular seat barely spent any time in it, and he was busy attending to other business."

Another paraphrases the governor and says, "It's a bleeping valuable thing. You don't just give it away for nothing."

Bids were approaching $100 million when eBay took it down. But you know, maybe it's not such a bad idea Obama owes a couple million dollars to the city of Chicago for the election night celebration. So he could sell the seat and throw in his Senate desk as well.

BROWN: Oh, not a bad idea.

Finally tonight, Senator Larry Craig caught in the infamous bathroom sex sting operation, suffered a legal setback today as he tried to withdraw his guilty plea, right?

MILBANK: Yes. Another sad moment for the soon-to-be former senator. They said the appeals court there refused to allow him to withdraw his guilty plea. Now the senator had said it was free speech what he did there in the men's room. Protected by the First Amendment in court, begged to differ saying "that his foot tapping and the movement of his foot toward the undercover officer's stall are considered speech. They would be intrusive speech directed at a captive audience and the government may prohibit them." So he still plans to appeal but it's not clear that the Supreme Court of the state really wants to take such a wide stance in this emerging area of bathroom law.

BROWN: Very clever, Dana. I'm sure this one isn't over yet. Dana Milbank for us tonight. Thanks, Dana, appreciate it.

MILBANK: Thanks, Campbell.

BROWN: When we come back, our "Planet in Peril" special correspondent Lisa Ling reports from the Niger River Delta. The source of a lot of oil. Also, a lot of death and misery when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: "Planet in Peril" returns to CNN on Thursday from the front lines of the battle to protect our environment. Tonight, CNN special correspondent Lisa Ling takes us to the Niger Delta where the world's thirst for oil is at the root of an armed struggle that is killing hundreds of people.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LISA LING, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is dawn in Nigeria. We've been driving for hours with armed escorts to meet up with one of the world's most notorious militant groups. They're called MEND, the Movement for the Emancipation of the Niger Delta. They're waging a violent battle that has killed hundreds of people.

A look out the window shows you what they're fighting about. Oil. This country makes hundreds of billions of dollars from it. But the average Nigerian gets almost none of that. That's what MEND is violently trying to change.

We arrived at the rendezvous point and are told to follow this man. We walked through back allies and then come to the water.

(on camera): So we've just been brought to this dock and we're being asked to get into these boats. We can't tell you where we are, and we're not sure where we're going. But let's go (ph).

(voice-over): We drive for hours by boat. Passing small villages. Winding through creeks. Then, suddenly, they appear.

A checkpoint and a boat full of MEND fighters armed to the teeth. They circle around us chanting and say they're taking us to see their commander.

((on camera): After a two-hour boat ride, we finally arrive. This is the MEND, Movement for the Emancipation of the Niger Delta. And they've destroyed a shooting range, apparently.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Anderson Cooper, Dr. Sanjay Gupta and Lisa Ling are going to have much, much more on "Planet in Peril: Battle Lines." That's Thursday night, 9:00 Eastern time.

Coming up, tonight "Bulls-Eye." It goes to a fellow who has been keeping people up late for a long time and now he's about to change that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Time for our "Bull's-Eye." Today we found out that Jay Leno, who is being replaced by Conan O'Brien on "The Tonight Show" in May, will actually stay on TV. He's cut a new deal with NBC, 10:00 p.m. five nights a week. He gets the "Bull's-Eye" for helping his fans go to bed at a far more reasonable hour.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAY LENO, HOST, TALK SHOW HOST: Well, you know, originally, I wasn't going to stay with NBC, but I remember something my parents taught me when I was kid. They said, "Whatever you do in life, always try to come in fourth."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Good luck to Jay. That does it for us.

"LARRY KING LIVE" right now.