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Campbell Brown
Obama Calls For Illinois Governor to Step Down; Auto Industry Bailout Stalled Once Again?
Aired December 10, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi , everybody.
Forty-eight hours ago, Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich thought he was a kingmaker. Tonight, there is a long list of people calling for his head, beginning with Barack Obama.
Bullet point number one tonight, the president-elect adds his name to those demanding the Illinois governor resign immediately after charges he put Obama's vacant Senate seat up for bid.
We are tracking this political bombshell and the fallout the next president could face.
Bullet point number two tonight, Jesse Jackson Jr., one of the most talked about candidates to replace Obama, emphatically denies ever playing let's make a deal. Tonight, hear what the congressman says really happened behind closed doors with the governor just days ago.
Here is a sample.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JESSE JACKSON JR. (D), ILLINOIS: I did not know that credentials, that qualifications, that a record of service meant nothing to the governor. I did not know that the governor and his cronies were attempting to use the process to extort money and favors, in a brazen pay to play scheme.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Much more on that ahead.
Bullet number three, though, the Illinois way. Best-selling author Scott Turow, once a prosecutor in Chicago, will be here for my NO BIAS, NO BULL interview tonight. Find out why he thinks so many leaders from the land of Lincoln end up with the corruption bug.
And bullet point number four, the other Blagojevich tonight. We're looking into the role the governor's wife played in defending her husband and going after his critics.
First, though, as always, we're "Cutting Through The Bull."
And, tonight, a call for a little more transparency from president-elect Obama about what he did or did not know about the allegations against Governor Blagojevich in Illinois.
I will first reiterate what we first heard from the U.S. attorney, Patrick Fitzgerald. He said Obama did nothing wrong. There are no allegations of wrongdoing against the president-elect. Then Obama himself said he never had contact with the governor about who should replace him in the Senate and had no idea any of this was going on.
Fair enough. But that is all Obama has said. And what now looks pretty clear at least based on these tapes and what the U.S. attorney is telling us is that someone from Obama world did have communication with the governor about this. Who was it? What was said?
Attempts by CNN reporters and others to try to get answers have been met with a big "no comment due to an ongoing investigation."
Sorry, but that is not good enough for someone who rain a campaign based in part on a promise of more openness and transparency. At the very least, you could have assured that you and your staff are getting to the bottom of this and fully cooperating with the investigators.
After all, we can figure some of this out on our own. It seems pretty clear that Valerie Jarrett, soon to be one of Obama's top White House advisers, was at one time on Blagojevich's short list to take Obama's Senate seat, and that there was some communication between Blagojevich and someone in Obama world, someone who allegedly conveyed to the governor that he would -- that all he would ever get from Obama was appreciation.
So, who was this point person on Obama's team? Did they know what Governor Blagojevich was allegedly up to? Did they tip off investigators? Or did they know the governor was allegedly soliciting bribes and did nothing? These are unanswered questions.
And, Mr. President-elect, we understand there are reasons you have said so little. We recognize you don't want to do or say anything that might compromise the investigation.
But all too often, we have also seen presidents hide behind a "no comment due to an ongoing investigation" when they find themselves or their administrations caught up in scandal. And for that reason and because you asked us to hold you to a different standard, it's fair to ask you to be more forthcoming, be more direct, more clear with the American people about what you and the people around you did or did not know.
Now, Obama may get a chance to answer some of those questions very soon. He's got a news conference scheduled tomorrow morning in Chicago. But this is a story that's not going to be going away, frankly, any time soon.
Tonight's breaking news is the statement by congressman Jesse Jackson Jr. following allegations he is the so-called candidate five in this case. He insists he wasn't involved in any wrongdoing. And he faces no charges. Drew Griffin has been digging into the whole thing all day, untangling the web of politics, Chicago-style. And he's joining us right now with the very latest -- Drew.
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Chicago-style and stunning, Campbell -- 4:00 Monday afternoon, Congressman Jackson is meeting face to face with Governor Blagojevich about this job. Today, the congressman is hiring an attorney, is going to meet with the U.S. attorneys about it, and all the while, the guy that everybody in Illinois wants to resign made news today going to work.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
QUESTION: There he is.
QUESTION: Governor.
QUESTION: Governor...
GRIFFIN (voice-over): Call it business unusual for the Illinois governor, now ducking media stake out at his home and racing past cameras as he was driven to his Chicago office.
One day after his arrest and amid calls from every corner of the state for his resignation, the governor was silent. Not so silent, Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr., who suddenly found himself defending his quest to fill the U.S. Senate seat Democrat Governor Blagojevich was allegedly trying to sell.
JACKSON: I reject and denounce pay-to-play politics and have no involvement whatsoever in any wrongdoing. I did not initiate or authorize anyone, at any time, to promise anything to Governor Blagojevich on my behalf.
GRIFFIN: A law enforcement source with detailed knowledge of the investigation confirms to CNN's Kelli Arena that Democratic Congressman Jesse Jackson is the Senate candidate number five talked about in the federal complaint against the governor.
That same federal source and Congressman Jackson's newly hired attorney say the congressman has done nothing wrong. And while Congressman Jackson is not named, is not charged and no one in the federal investigation is insinuating any wrongdoing on his part, what is explained in the document about that candidate number five is at least troubling.
On December 4, Blagojevich tells an adviser he was giving Senate candidate five greater consideration because he would raise money for the governor. Blagojevich adds, he might want to get some money up front maybe from Senate candidate number five to ensure the promise is kept, prosecutors say.
Then the governor allegedly recalls a conversation from October 31 with an associate of Senate candidate number five. "We were approached pay-to-play, that, you know, he would raise me 500 grand. An emissary came. Then the other guy would raise a million if I made him, Senate candidate number five, a senator."
JACKSON: I never sent a message or an emissary to the governor to make an offer, to plead my case, or to propose a deal about a U.S. Senate seat, period.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And, Drew, let me follow up with you on another development.
Governor Blagojevich's deputy governor, Bob Greenlee, resigned today. What was the reason given?
GRIFFIN: No reason given. Bob Greenlee, one of the deputy governors there, left, telling the AP and "The Tribune" that he couldn't comment based on advice from his own attorney.
There were two deputy governors listed in that complaint. One was candidate number four, a Senate candidate being under consideration by the governor. The other was a deputy governor that was very much involved in that scheme with the Wrigley ball park and "The Tribune" business going on there.
So, we don't know which one or if Bob Greenlee is one. But he did resign today from the governor's office.
BROWN: All right, Drew Griffin with all the latest details from Chicago for us tonight -- Drew, thanks.
The president-elect as we had said earlier has been absolutely clear about distancing himself from the Illinois governor, saying that he has had no contact with him, that he knew nothing about what was going on. But there are still some lingering questions tonight.
And for that, we turn to Jessica Yellin in Chicago with the very latest on that part of the story -- Jessica.
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Campbell.
There are calls for Barack Obama to reveal more of what he may or may not know about the Blagojevich scandal and a lot of pressure for him to answer more questions.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
YELLIN (voice-over): Barack Obama is stepping up the pressure on Governor Blagojevich to resign through an aide, telling CNN, he believes, "Under the current circumstances, it is difficult for the governor effectively do his job and serve the people of Illinois." That statement comes amid questions about what Barack Obama is not saying regarding the charges against the governor.
The complaint against Blagojevich repeatedly refers to Senate candidate one, calling her a female Obama adviser. That seems to be Valerie Jarrett, who is one of Obama's closest aides.
Yesterday, the president-elect was careful about the words he chose.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENT-ELECT: We were not -- I was not aware of what was happening.
YELLIN: Not "we," but "I," leaving open the possibility that one or more of his aides did have contact with the governor's office. And according to the complaint, Blagojevich wanted to talk to at least one of Obama's aides. The governor is quoted saying on November 13 that he'd like to call one of the president-elect's advisers and ask him, Can you guys help raise $10 million or $15 million?
It's not clear whether that call ever happened. And the prosecutor went out of his way to make it clear Obama is not in his crosshairs.
PATRICK FITZGERALD, U.S. ATTORNEY: The complaint makes no allegations about the president-elect whatsoever.
YELLIN: But there's the perception issue. The man who promised to run the most candid White House in history is saying:
OBAMA: As this is an ongoing investigation involving the governor, I don't think it will be appropriate for me to comment on the issue at this time.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And, Jessica, you know, we mentioned the president has a news conference tomorrow morning, topic, of course, health care, Cabinet appointments. But he is obviously going to get questions about this.
YELLIN: Obviously, he will, Campbell. And he will be pounded with him.
And I'm told by one of his aides that he's not planning to address the Blagojevich issue, unless asked. Well, I can assure everyone he will be asked.
(LAUGHTER)
YELLIN: And one of the things we have seen about Barack Obama time and again is sometimes when he's confronted with these sort of mini controversy scandals, he doesn't give it his best answer the first time around. The second time, he manages to clean it up pretty quickly and cleanly.
So, maybe he will have responses tomorrow that will put some of this to rest. As I said, there are lots of questions out there. And the transition is well aware that people want some more answers. So, we're going to sort of have to wait and see. I should add, Campbell, he has a very busy day. After a number of quiet days for Barack Obama, he has also added to the scheduled a meeting with the War Powers Commission, some heavy-hitting national security types. So, we will see a lot of him tomorrow. BROWN: Right. OK, Jessica Yellin for us tonight. We will be watching of course that news conference in the morning. Jessica, thanks very much.
So, what does all of this mean for the politician revealed today as candidate five, Jesse Jackson Jr.? We are going to hear more from the congressman coming up next.
Plus, I will ask our political experts, does Barack Obama owe us more of a response than this?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Obviously, like the rest of the people of Illinois, I am saddened and sobered by the news that came out of the U.S. attorney's office today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And a little bit later, best-selling author Scott Turow. He's also a former Chicago prosecutor. He knows Obama and Blagojevich. He's got a lot to say about them and Chicago politics and scandals. He will be with us shortly.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACKSON: I spoke to the U.S. attorney's office on Tuesday. They shared with me that I am not -- I am not a target of this investigation, and that I am not accused of any misconduct.
In the days ahead, federal law enforcement officials want to meet and discuss what I know about the Senate selection process.
I look forward to cooperating with the hardworking men and women of the United States Attorney's Office and the Justice Department.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr. there saying he wants to be a senator, but not at any price. Jackson denied any role in the scandal over Barack Obama's Senate seat, after being identified as Senate candidate number five from the federal complaint against Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich.
In wiretapped conversations, the governor allegedly said that candidate number five might be willing to pay to play.
And we want to talk more about the governor, the congressman, with our panel now.
We have got CNN political analyst radio talk show host Roland Martin, who is in Chicago tonight. Here with me in New York, "New York Daily News" columnist Errol Louis, also morning host for WWRL Radio in New York, and Lisa Bloom, anchor of "In Session" on truTV. Welcome, guys.
Roland, let me start with you.
This is how "The New York Times" is putting it in their latest story tonight: "Of the six candidates for the Senate who are identified by number in the complaint, but not named, only candidate five is said to have engaged in possible wrongdoing by engaging in discussions through an emissary about a possible quid pro quo with Mr. Blagojevich's camp."
Given that -- you heard everything that Jesse Jackson Jr. said today in his news conference -- do you think he was credible?
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, first of all, what they All right, reporting is not what actually was in the complaint. It said that the candidate number five would raise money for the governor. And so saying that they would engage in wrongdoing, that's actually factually incorrect.
So, Jackson's point I think was a strong one. And that is, look, you come out. You're identified as number five. You say, look, this is exactly where I stand.
Now the onus, frankly, is on Blagojevich to say, who was this emissary? Who was this person who came to them saying, I represent the congressman?
And so that's really where we are now. We don't know who this person is.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: OK. But let me just clarify something you said, because wouldn't that be pay to play, if he had said, OK, we will raise $1 million for you in exchange for the Senate seat? I mean, there's no real difference there, right?
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Well, no, what we have is, we have the governor saying somebody came to him in a phone call.
The emissary wasn't recorded. We don't know who that person was. And so that's what I'm saying. Jumping to say somebody was engaged in wrongdoing, frankly, the evidence is not there.
BROWN: OK. I see your point.
Errol, let me go to you, because this press conference today, when we heard a very long press conference from him, it also sort of turned into a bit of a campaign speech. He still very much wants this job. Do you think he should still be in the running for it?
(CROSSTALK)
ERROL LOUIS, COLUMNIST, "THE NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": Oh, well, he is, whether anybody wants him to be or not.
And this is the -- it was kind of a baffling part of his news conference. It almost sounded like a job interview. He started talking about his resume and what a good guy he is and how much people like him and what a good job he could do as a senator.
But I think that ship has sailed. And he's going to learn that I think in the next few days. But going back to something Roland said, I think there is this gray area that we're in right now, this murky area between somebody who is asking for pay to play in an illegal sense and somebody who is doing what politicians do all the time, meaning, if you're going to run statewide, if nothing else comes out of that 76-page indictment, it's that this governor is hungry for campaign money, so that he can run.
And as long as we don't have campaign reform, as long as that's going to always be on the mind of every politician running statewide in a big state like Illinois, frankly, it's going to be one of the things that you talk about.
BROWN: Right.
LOUIS: In that 90 minutes, it would have had -- look, how much money can you raise? Are you a serious candidate? When are you going to raise it? Can I be your running mate? Are we going to share this? Are we going to campaign together?
And it's very easy for those kind of conversations to also be construed as, when you're talking about a corruption case, as something that's just illegal.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: A pay for play, some sort of deal.
But let me -- you said the ship has sailed, unfairly, possibly, if everything he says is true, and none of that took place, and he's completely innocent. Why shouldn't he be the choice?
(CROSSTALK)
LOUIS: He comes across as very much more involved than the other candidates.
Some of the other candidates, like Jan Schakowsky, another congresswoman from Chicago, perfectly forthcoming, speaking on talk shows.
BROWN: Right.
LOUIS: And just -- really just kind of putting her case out. She didn't have a lawyer talk to the press. So, it may be unfair, but in a case like this, the political standards and what the public wants to hear from its public officials is going to be a much higher standard than you normally would.
BROWN: Well, so what about that, Lisa? He was very cagey on his lawyer's advice. But is that a problem if you want to be the next U.S. senator from Illinois?
(CROSSTALK)
LISA BLOOM, TRUTV ANCHOR: Well, it is a problem politically. And legally it really doesn't make a lot of sense. He's not a target of the investigation. He's not a subject of the investigation. He's not a defendant. He's not a suspect.
He's nothing at this point, except somebody who is named in a criminal complaint against somebody else. So, why not answer questions? I think it is cagey.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Do you think that was...
BLOOM: Well, criminal defense lawyers are always going to be very, very conservative and advise everybody, don't speak, because anything you say can be used against you later on if you say something that's a little bit inconsistent.
But the real question I have is, this emissary, does Jesse Jackson Jr. have some snaky emissary, who is telling him one thing and telling the governor something else? That could make both of their statements consistent. That is what we just don't know yet.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Go ahead, Roland.
MARTIN: Lisa, there are people who say, I am an associate, I am an adviser, I am someone who is familiar with a candidate.
BLOOM: Sure.
MARTIN: We don't know that. We have a governor on the phone saying an emissary came to us.
BLOOM: Right.
MARTIN: We have no idea. If we jump to the conclusion, like, well, who is out here...
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: No, I'm not jumping to any conclusions at all.
(CROSSTALK) BLOOM: In fact, I would emphasize that the governor is presumed innocent. I think there are a lot of holes frankly in this criminal complaint that hardly anybody is talking about, a lot of unnamed people, a lot of mights and maybes and possiblies. And I don't anything is crystal-clear at this point.
MARTIN: And that is why nobody talks.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: I'm sure the governor is conferring with his lawyer right now about maybe getting some of this thing dismissed.
BROWN: OK.
And hopefully in the next few days it's going to become more clear. We are going to be able to fill some of these holes and get some answers to this.
But we have got to end it there. We're out of time.
Many thanks. Roland, to Errol and Lisa, appreciate it, guys.
When we come back, this is quickly boiling up to a political challenge, not just for Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr., but for Barack Obama, and, no surprise, an opportunity for Republicans.
James Carville, Steve Hayes, they're going to join us to talk about that when we come back.
Plus, there is the governor's wife, the first lady of Illinois. The allegations against Patti Blagojevich aren't quite a match for her husband's, but now a lot of people talking about her, too.
Plus, the very latest on the lifelines for General Motors and Chrysler. One senator thinks the whole rescue effort has been structured, well, the wrong way around.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. DAVID VITTER (R), LOUISIANA: Isn't that, to use a common phrase, just ass-backwards?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: No one has accused president-elect Obama of any wrongdoing, but his critics are still asking about Governor Blagojevich. What did Obama know? When did he know it?
Let's get an insider's take now on this from CNN political contributors James Carville, Democratic strategist, and Stephen Hayes, senior writer for "The Weekly Standard."
Welcome, guys. JAMES CARVILLE, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Thank you.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: James, let me start with you here.
Republicans trying very hard to keep the focus on Obama here. You had the head of the Republican National Committee coming out and saying -- quote -- "President-elect Barack Obama's comments on the matter are insufficient, at best. Given the president-elect's history of supporting and advising Governor Blagojevich, he has a responsibility to speak out fully and address the issue."
What do you think?
CARVILLE: Well, first of all, let me be very clear here. The president-elect and Governor Blagojevich have never really been political allies. And I suspect that this guy knows that.
Now...
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: But, wait, wait, wait, just because I'm -- correct me if I'm wrong here, but I had read that, in his 2002 campaign for governor, that Obama was advising Blagojevich.
CARVILLE: No, I don't think that -- I think, when Blagojevich -- when he ran, my understanding is, he didn't even endorse him. And Blagojevich didn't endorse Obama in the primary.
But I know this for a fact, that they're not particularly close. They're both Democrats. They're both from Illinois. But the idea that they're particularly close is ludicrous.
Now, I would say that, as Jessica pointed out in a previous piece, he is going to have to answer -- he will get a lot of questions about it tomorrow and I don't think he's going to be able to say no comment. He will have to answer some more questions.
But there's no -- and I think that Mr. Fitzgerald went out of his way to say that the president-elect wasn't part of this. But the president-elect and Governor Blagojevich are hardly political allies in any sense of the way.
BROWN: But do you think Obama maybe made a political mistake by not being forthcoming at the very beginning on this?
CARVILLE: Well, I think he is going to have a chance tomorrow morning.
Just, if I had to bet, I think Stephen Hayes would probably agree with me. He's going to get any number of questions about this. And I think that's the time it will come. But that's going to happen tomorrow morning.
BROWN: Steve, what are Republicans up to here? Do they see this opening of guilt by assumption, lump all Chicago politicians together?
STEPHEN HAYES, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think they do.
There was some reporting, Campbell, that Senator Obama had been a key adviser to Governor Blagojevich back in 2002. That's been disputed by some Obama people. But I think there were relationships going back. The question is, how significant were they?
What I think James is right about is that certainly of late the Obama people will say, look, we didn't have him at Grant Park with us. We didn't have him speak at the Democratic Convention. So, lately certainly there's been some distance.
But I think Republicans are going to ask questions frankly that you asked at the very beginning of the show, which I think are legitimate questions, about his pledge to be a transparent elected official. And he needs to answer these questions. I think he sort of backed into his criticism by calling it saddening or sobering yesterday and then having a spokesman call for the resignation today.
I think he needs to be much more forceful tomorrow.
CARVILLE: I think that -- two things. I agree with Stephen.
And, important, I think he will be more forthcoming tomorrow. But it's just not a credible case to say that the president-elect and Blagojevich were political allies in any sense of the word.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: But, to Steve's point, James, he did -- he's right. That initial statement about how he was saddened by the whole thing, it was a day later that it took him to say -- to get angry, which a lot of Democrats said, hey, you have got to put out a stronger statement. And then he came out and said he needs to resign.
CARVILLE: That all may be true.
And, again, he's going to have ample opportunity to answer all these questions tomorrow morning. And I think that they're very legitimate, and I think people are going to ask him. And I suspect that they have a pretty good idea it's coming and they're talking about it right now.
BROWN: But you're a veteran of -- certainly an adviser to the Clinton campaign. You have witnessed so many scandals, Republicans, Democratic presidents.
CARVILLE: And a lot of fake scandals, too.
BROWN: Fair enough. A good point there. What's the best way to get beyond this and move on to other things?
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Look, I don't know. This is a "mell of a hess" here. This is...
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: This is going to be around.
I think he's either going to resign or they're going to impeach him and he's not going to be governor for very long. The second point I would make is, already, Senator Reid and the Senate Democrats are saying they are not going to seek whoever is appointed.
So, I don't know what anybody is thinking about here. But this is not normal circumstances here in Illinois. And I think this governor is going to have to resign, and pronto, or the Illinois legislature is going to take it in their own hands.
I don't think that if he appoints someone that the Senate Democrats are going to seat him. People may not realize the Senate has the ability to reject anybody that they want to as a member. And they're already taking moves to do that. So, I think that everybody knows these are not normal times.
BROWN: All right, guys, we have got to end it there. We're out of time.
My apologies, Steve. I should have given you the last word. I will get you next time.
(LAUGHTER)
HAYES: No problem. No problem.
BROWN: But, James Carville, Steve Hayes, many thanks. Appreciate it.
When we come back, what led the U.S. attorney in Chicago to move against Governor Blagojevich? We are going to ask best-selling author, lawyer, and former prosecutor Scott Turow. He will be with us.
And, later, Barack Hussein Obama, for so much of the campaign, his middle name was a lightning rod. So, why is it part of our "Political Daily Briefing" tonight? We will explain.
Plus, in our "Bullseye," a story we have been talking about here today: an unbelievable act of forgiveness.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATRICK FITZGERALD, U.S. ATTORNEY, N. DISTRICT, ILLINOIS: We encourage people to talk to us. We encourage people to work with us, to let us get to the bottom of what has happened here. We remind people that there's a lot we don't know and need to know. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: The U.S. attorney in Chicago makes it clear, the case against Rod Blagojevich still very much an open case in progress. And that's because Patrick Fitzgerald had to arrest the governor before he was really ready. That's according to my next guest.
Scott Turow is one of the country's best-selling novelists. That's not why he's here tonight, though. He's here because he used to be a federal prosecutor in Chicago. We should also point out that Scott knows both Governor Blagojevich and President-elect Obama.
Welcome to you. Good to have you here.
SCOTT TUROW, AUTHOR & LAWYER: Thank you, Campbell. Nice to be here.
BROWN: You have an op ed piece in the "New York Times" today where you write that Patrick Fitzgerald was forced to arrest the governor sooner than he wanted to. Why did it become so urgent? What forced his hand?
TUROW: Well, I think the whole skein of events forced his hand. I don't think -- of course, he wanted the governor to make a Senate appointment that would later be questioned. He didn't want the governor signing a bill that was on his desk that had to do with horse racing. He was very clear about that.
So there were a whole series of events that were taking place that Pat Fitzgerald could not allow to go forward without being questioned later by the public as to why he hadn't prevented those things from occurring.
BROWN: So where does that leave him now? I mean, the impact it has on the case as he tries to plot out the next steps?
TUROW: Well, I think every prosecutor knows that a complex case is best investigated with the aid of a grand jury. And because he has got to indict this case now within 20 days of the date of arrest or give the governor a preliminary hearing which is unlikely, he is going to be hindered in his investigation. But that's not to suggest that the U.S. attorney's office in Chicago has not already accumulated a great deal of evidence against Governor Blagojevich.
This investigation has gone on now for close to five years. There are a number of people who are cooperating. The government really confirmed in the complaint yesterday that they're talking to Tony Rezko, who is one of governor Blagojevich's chief fundraisers.
There are a lot of witnesses, and now we know wiretaps. So people shouldn't assume that that means the case is going to be weak. It just means it's a little less neat and polished than Patrick Fitzgerald typically likes a case to be when he indicts him.
BROWN: Right. You have a personal relationship with Barack Obama. You were an early supporter of his even before he was elected to the Senate. And you say that he and Governor Blagojevich, in your view, represent opposite sides of Chicago politics.
TUROW: Yes.
BROWN: How so?
TUROW: Well, Governor Blagojevich, I regret to say, is not the first Illinois politician accused of corruption. He's one of --
BROWN: Hardly.
TUROW: He is one of a long line. And because there is this sort of tradition in Illinois of people coming into public office and saying what's in it for me, there is an equally durable tradition of sort of reform-minded politicians coming into office.
And it's not confined to one party. You can point to people like Paul Douglas, our old U.S. senator, Jim Thompson, who went from the U.S. attorney's office to the governor's office, Charles Percy, certainly Senator Durbin and President-elect Obama are also part of that reform-minded tradition in Illinois politics.
BROWN: Right.
TUROW: And the two sides sort of end up feeding each other.
BROWN: You know, Blagojevich appointed you to the state's ethics commission.
TUROW: He did.
BROWN: And he ran for office as a crusader against corruption.
TUROW: He did.
BROWN: And given all that, did you ever think he could be capable of the kind of blatant, flagrant criminal behavior alleged, alleged I should say, in this complaint?
TUROW: Well, I mean, obviously like everybody in the state, I never actually was a supporter of Governor Blagojevich's, but I had high hopes. When he was elected, he certainly was talking the talk. And I would say the first few months were fairly hopeful.
By the time he was in the second year of his term, though, talking to members of the general assembly, there was a pretty strong feeling even then that the governor really had no political agenda except advancing his own interests.
BROWN: All right. On that note, Scott Turow, a bit of a pessimist, a bit of a cynic, but an interesting take from you. And you certainly know the territory on Chicago politics. Thanks for being with us tonight. Appreciate it.
TUROW: You're welcome, Campbell. Thanks for having me on.
BROWN: They say behind every great man, there is a great woman. So what kind of woman is behind an allegedly corrupt politician? A portrait of Mrs. Blagojevich, who was also recorded on those secret tapes. That is still ahead.
And questions about precisely how Barack Obama will be sworn in when he takes the oath of office on January 20th. That's coming up next in our "Political Daily Briefing."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Fizzle and substance together. That is our "PDB," the "Political Daily Briefing." As always, Dana Milbank, has the rest of the day's political news.
Hey there, Dana.
DANA MILBANK, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Hi, Campbell.
Tonight's "PDB," Obama's inauguration plans officially announced and one detail creating quite a buzz.
MILBANK: Yes. You know, Campbell, if I had told you five years ago that we would be swearing in a guy named Hussein as president, you probably would have thought things had gone really badly over in that Iraq war. But in fact that is exactly what is going to happen on January 20th.
President-elect is taking the traditional route of using his full name, Barack Hussein Obama. That is, of course, his real name, so it's quite legitimate to do. But it also has the virtue of tweaking the critics who disparage that name on the campaign trail.
So that's the latest on the middle name beat. Back to you Alma Dale Campbell Brown.
BROWN: And thank you very much, Dana Timothy Milbank. You think I didn't do my homework?
There is a fight also brewing in D.C. we should tell people about. Very important fight about just how late bars should be open inauguration week.
MILBANK: Yes. This is a case of bipartisan party pooping. We're a very thirsty bunch here in D.C., so our government passed emergency legislation saying all bars should be open, if they want to be, until 5:00 a.m. for inauguration week. But now comes Dianne Feinstein and Robert Bennett in the Senate, they want to rescind this which seems terribly unfair since we don't actually get to vote for the Congress. The least they can do is let us drink whenever we want to in the night.
But I think as a safety precaution, they probably should remove all of those life-size cutouts of Hillary Clinton just to prevent any inappropriate touching by Obama campaign aides.
BROWN: Yes. I'm all for that. Dana Milbank tonight trying to cause trouble and stir things up a little bit. Appreciate it as always, Dana, and we'll see you tomorrow.
At this moment in Washington, the House considering amendments for the huge auto bailout bill. In a moment, the latest on the fate of carmakers. How much could it help them? How much could it cost you?
And in our "Bull's-Eye," the story so many of us were so moved by today. A man who has lost his entire family in a plane crash speaks of his heartbreak, pleads for forgiveness to the pilot. A pretty amazing story. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: She is standing by her man tonight, but the wife of Illinois' embattled governor has some explaining of her own to do. We've got that story coming up.
First though, Randi Kaye with me with "The Briefing" -- Randi.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Campbell. We want to take you live right now to a picture of the floor of the House of Representatives where the auto bailout is taking place. They're voting on the auto industry bailout.
It's likely that it will pass. Tonight, it's looking like 226 in favor of this yea, and 148 nay. So it is looking like this will pass in the House tonight.
Republicans warn though that the votes aren't there to pass it yet in the Senate. Now, some demand to know why taxpayers would shell out $14 billion without a detailed plan for rebuilding the big three.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. DAVID VITTER (R), LOUISIANA: Isn't that putting the cart before the horse? Isn't that, to use a common phrase, just ass backwards? $15 billion?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAYE: More of that frustration spilled out when it came to the other bigger bailout. The government's point man on the Wall Street bailout tried to assure Congress that money is being spent properly, but it didn't play well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DAVID SCOTT (D), GEORGIA: We've been lied to. The American people have been lied to. We've been bamboozled. They came to us to ask for money for one thing, then they used it for another.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAYE: And six months before the 2009 hurricane season, we are already being warned to brace for impact. Can you believe it? Forecasters at Colorado State University expect an above-average season in the Atlantic, 14 storms big enough to be named, and half of them likely to gain hurricane strength. Last year's predictions turned out very close to what actually happened. So we are ready for that.
BROWN: All right. Randi Kaye for us tonight. Randi, thanks.
When we come back, an incredibly powerful story, nearly impossible to imagine losing your family in an instant. But that terrible moment just happened to a California man, and his response -- an extraordinary act of forgiveness.
Also, you need to see what some of the rarest creatures are victims of one of the world's most dangerous war zones. It's the "Planet in Peril" preview with Anderson Cooper. That's coming up as well.
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BROWN: Tonight's "Bull's-Eye" left those of us who saw it in the newsroom today speechless. There are moments when someone reaches so far beyond what any of us could imagine that we are awestruck.
On Monday in San Diego, a military jet crashed into a home and killed four members of the very same family. Yun Yoon loved them all, his wife, his mother-in-law and two little daughters. And Ted Rowlands reports he has now spoken to reporters for the first time -- Ted.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Campbell, this really is incredible. You imagine, put yourself in this guy's position, it's hard to do it. It's unimaginable. But he came out yesterday after surveying what happened to his home, after losing his entire family, and he talked about this publicly.
Did he throw any accusations out? No. What did he do? He talked about the love he had for his wife and for his children. But then he also made the extraordinary effort, which has touched people around the world, to ask people to pray for the pilot of the jet that crashed into his house, killing his family. Here is some of what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONG YUN YOON, WIDOWER: I know there are many people who have experienced more terrible things. Please tell me how to do it because I don't know what to do.
I heard the pilot is safe. Please pray for him not to suffer from this accident. I know he's one of our treasures for the country.
You know, I don't blame him. I don't have any hard feelings. I know he did everything he could.
(END VIDEO CLIP) ROWLANDS: And, Campbell, Mr. Yoon has heard from people from around the world who heard him speak. Some of them wanted to donate. Others just wanting to say thank you for his faith and the way he has handled this. And it is really unbelievable.
We cover a lot of these stories, but rarely do you ever see somebody with the composure and just the honest emotion that this man has in the face of such a tragic story, reaching out the way he has.
BROWN: The compassion and the generosity, you're right. It is amazing.
Ted Rowlands for us tonight. Ted, thanks so much. Appreciate it.
Prosecutors say a whole lot of dirt around Governor Rod Blagojevich, maybe enough to stain his wife as well. Up next, find out how Patti Blagojevich is tied to the jaw-dropping allegations against her husband.
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BROWN: The scandal threatening Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich could also claim his chief of staff and possibly someone else very close to him, his own wife.
Patti Blagojevich has not been charged, but prosecutors are asking questions tonight about the influence she may have tried to use as first lady of Illinois.
And Gary Tuchman is in Chicago. He's been working all day on that part of the story for us - Gary.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Campbell. By all accounts, the Illinois governor's wife has never sought the spotlight, but the spotlight has found her in an extremely harsh way.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TUCHMAN (voice-over): Happier times, the Blagojevich family, when they had their second child in 2003.
GOV. ROD BLAGOJEVICH (D), ILLINOIS: I think she takes after her daddy. She wanted to stay close to her mother. Of course, she and I love Patti so much. We always like to be close.
TUCHMAN: Now, news helicopters hover over Patti Blagojevich's home that she shares with her husband and two daughters, were seen going to the car with their mother following behind.
Patricia Blagojevich, a woman who if prosecutors are right, stands by her man, in an unflattering and sometimes foul-mouthed style. Regarding the accusation that her husband wanted the "Chicago Tribune" to fire editorial writers in return for state help for the company to sell Wrigley Field, home of the Chicago Cubs, the wiretappers say she said, "Hold up that (bleeping) Cubs (bleep). (Bleep) them."
And did she endorse the plot to get rid of the newspaper employees? Patti Blagojevich, who has been in the real estate business, is allegedly caught dishing this. "Just fire the writers." And she and her husband are alleged to have schemed to get her high- paying positions on corporate boards. The public has seen a much different Patti Blagojevich.
This when she was asked her baby daughter's middle name.
PATTI BLAGOJEVICH, WIFE OF ILLINOIS GOVERNOR: We just do an initial. With a last name like Blagojevich, you don't really need a middle name.
CAROL MARIN, "CHICAGO SUN-TIMES": This is not a frilly first lady.
TUCHMAN: Carol Marin is a political columnist for the "Chicago Sun-Times" and the political editor for Chicago's WMAQ-TV, a longtime observer of Illinois' often corrupt political scene.
MARIN: She herself has come under investigation by the U.S. attorney's office because some of her real estate deals were done in concert with the governor's fund-raiser who now sits in a federal prison on corruption charges.
TUCHMAN: Patti Blagojevich is from a political blue-blood family. Her sister, Deborah Mell, will be sworn in as the new state representative next month. But it's her father who is exceptionally well known in Chicago politics.
Richard Mell has been a city alderman, the equivalent of a councilman for 33 years. Mell has had a falling out with his son-in- law, the governor.
MARIN: This is a family at war for reasons that are hard to completely understand. But the father-in-law is a powerbroker and the son-in-law, Blagojevich, became the governor. And so, when that business splintered, it was -- I mean, thanksgiving is a bad holiday for the Blagojevich-Mells.
TUCHMAN: We wanted to talk to Richard Mell about his daughter and son-in-law. He would not go on camera but gave us this statement. "My main concern right now is for my daughter and grandchildren. I would rather not discuss this sad situation in the public venue at this time."
And sad it is. Patti and Rod Blagojevich, these little girls will now have to compete for the attention of their parents with their father about to enter a legal maelstrom. Things have changed since this pitifully ironic statement when the parents had their newborn.
R. BLAGOJEVICH: She's very contented. Very straightforward, very honest, which means no political career.
(END VIDEOTAPE) TUCHMAN: The governor's wife is widely described as very smart, but if these allegations are correct and she said these things on the phone with her husband also on the phone, well, that wasn't particularly smart -- Campbell.
BROWN: Gary Tuchman, we'll see what happens. Gary, appreciate it.
In just a minute, we're going to go to one of the front lines in the battle for our "Planet in Peril." Anderson Cooper found some of the world's last mountain gorillas living in the middle of a war zone.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: This just in right now from Capitol Hill, take a look. You're looking at a live picture there, the House of Representatives, which has approved a $14 billion auto bailout plan for General Motors and Chrysler.
The bailout still has a mountain to climb in the Senate. Some Republicans threatening a filibuster, and GOP leaders say there aren't enough votes to pass it in the Senate. We will keep track of this and let you know if there are any further developments tonight.
Moving on now. CNN's award-winning "Planet in Peril" returns tomorrow night with reports from the battle lines in the fight to save our environment.
Tonight, Anderson Cooper takes us to one of the most dangerous places on the planet, a place where frankly the pictures are sometimes very difficult to watch. And a shrinking population of rare mountain gorillas is caught up in the middle of a civil war.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): About half of the world's last remaining mountain gorillas live in forests in Rwanda's neighbor, Democratic Republic of Congo. Just last year, ten gorillas there were slaughtered. Shot to death. Some were even set on fire.
The head of the park where the gorillas live stands accused of masterminding the killing. Congo has been battered by civil war for more than a decade now, and some five million people have died as a result.
The gorillas' habitat is literally a battleground. So unstable rangers can't enter the forest to patrol and protect them.
(on camera): There's nine gorillas in this group.
(voice-over): During a low in the fighting, we visited Congo's gorillas in 2006, but today, no one is sure if these same gorillas are even alive. That uncertainty makes the protection of Rwanda's gorillas all the more important.
Veronica Vecellio has been monitoring Rwanda's gorilla groups for more than three years, as director of research with the Dian Fossey foundation.
We're hiking with her up a steep mountain to go and see what's called a research group, gorillas never visited by tourists.
(on camera): We're not exactly sure what to expect. There's a large number of male black backs, they call them, males about to reach their full maturity, and a silver back, which had been in control of the group, had been replaced by another silver back. So the scientist who study these gorillas said there's a lot of aggression in the group, and they're not really sure how they'll react to our presence. So frankly, if they charge, I'm going to hide behind the biggest cameraman I can find.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Anderson Cooper, Dr. Sanjay Gupta and Lisa Ling are going to have much more on "Planet in Peril: Battle Lines." That is tomorrow night, 9:00 Eastern.
And be sure to check out CNN.com for a web exclusive report on tonight's documentary including interactive maps, photo galleries, exclusive video blogs, and a whole lot more. That is at CNN.com/planetinperil.
That is it for us tonight. We will see you tomorrow. Thanks for joining us.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.
