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Campbell Brown
Where Has Bailout Money Gone?; Cheney vs. Biden
Aired December 22, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everyone. I'm Erica Hill. Campbell is off tonight.
Three nights before Christmas, and all through the boardroom, CEOs are cashing in on the bailout boom.
Bullet point one tonight: the executives who got an early holiday gift as their companies crumbled. A close-up view in our rogues' gallery. Plus, startling news about some of the banks getting those federal bailout loans -- why no one can tell us where all the billions have gone.
Bullet point number two: Barack Obama's Christmas in paradise. Will he be able to relax now that he's finally ready to reveal just how much contact his transition office had with Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich. We will have that. We will also show you what's missing from Obama's new White House team.
Bullet point number three: the not-so-private feuding between Vice President Dick Cheney and V.P.-elect Joe Biden. Are they ignoring transition etiquette or just being honest? We will give you a preview of Biden's interview with Larry King tonight and we will also hear what Cheney had to say for himself over the weekend.
And speaking of a bit of a chill in the air, bullet point number four: plunging temperatures across the country. And the timing really couldn't be worse for all of you holiday travelers. So, we're going to check the latest travel forecast from the CNN Severe Weather Center.
Well, tonight, as if they didn't have enough explaining to do about how they lost so much money in the first place, America's biggest banks are now being asked another question. Just what did you do with the billions the government loaned you?
Joe Johns has been checking into this and he has some surprising answers for us tonight.
Hi, Joe.
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Erica.
We're talking about billions of dollars of your money. It was supposed to jump-start the economy by encouraging banks to start lending money again. But now some of the banks can't even tell you what they did with it. What's worse, some won't tell you. And get this: Banks admit they're still trying to figure out what to do with all those bailout bucks. Twenty-one banks that got at least $1 billion from the federal government's Troubled Asset Relief Program simply did not have specifics when the Associated Press asked them to account for the money.
One bank pretty much summed it up, saying -- quote -- "We're not providing dollar-in/dollar--out tracking."
Now, the Government Accountability Office has already slammed the Treasury Department for not keeping track of the bailout money. Congressman Elijah Cummings of Maryland, a vocal critic of how the bailout's been managed, says these banks can't duck these questions forever.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS (D), MARYLAND: It's absolutely wrong. And when I think about banks and the way that, if you -- if you bounce a check, they're going to charge you $35 or $50 for a bounced check. And they're going to demand strict accountability. But, when they get billions, they don't want to be accountable. There's something wrong with that picture.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNS: One of the problems is, the Treasury Department failed to tell the banks at the outset that there would be reporting requirements.
Cummings predicts Congress will figure out where the money went, because, he says, there are another $350 billion bailout bucks waiting to be spent. And folks on Capitol Hill want to know what they did wrong the first time, before they make the mistakes again -- Erica.
HILL: They're not the only ones. Plenty of taxpayers want to know, too.
Joe, thanks.
There is of course more than enough blame to go around in this economic crisis. Now, normally, we induct the members into our NO BIAS, NO BULL rogues' gallery one at a time.
Tonight, however, a four-pack for you, something we have never done before. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you CEOs gone wild and the details with Tom Foreman.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The markets continue to shake, holiday shopping is down, unemployment is up, but not necessarily everyone is worried about personal finances. A new analysis of more than 100 of those financial institutions being bailed out with your tax dollars shows they were throwing buckets of money at their top executives just last year, before the industry tanked. The Associated Press says the big bosses in those firms raked in a staggering $1.6 billion in salaries, benefits and bonuses in 2007. For example, the AP says the top man at Goldman Sachs pocketed $54 million. Add in the pay for his top four lieutenants and it's nearly a quarter-billion.
At Capital One, the AP found the chairman pulled in $17 million, and the big man at Merrill Lynch, $83 million in earnings last year. To be sure, some executives at bailout companies say they are foregoing their salaries and will give up bonuses this year, too, unless their companies bounce back. And they are trimming down on perks, like country club memberships and private chauffeurs.
But:
PETER MORICI, ECONOMIST, UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND: They are not suffering. The base salary of the top officials at some of these banks is about $600,000 a year, which is more than most people see in five or 10 years.
FOREMAN: And remember those corporate jets the auto bosses brought to D.C.? Although many firms say they are also cutting back on those, the execs are hardly grounded.
For instance, a spokesman at AIG confirms even after the current cuts, that company will still have five planes and a helicopter.
MORICI: You know, you really wonder whether they shouldn't have to give some of last year's bonuses back.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN: Not likely. Even though there was a lot of talk about pinning the bailouts to serious cuts in executive wages, many financial analysts say there are just too many loopholes in the plan, and even if the big-money players make less, they're still going to make a lot -- Erica.
HILL: They are going to make a lot more than you or me.
FOREMAN: A lot. A lot.
HILL: So, are they offering any sort of defense, though, for these salaries?
FOREMAN: Yes, the same defense they always have. First of all, they do say that it's better now. But even with the scale we're talking about, if you say it's less now, basically, the defense has always been, you have got to have the top people to do these jobs. They're the ones you have to pay. They're the one who know how it all works.
Of course, the critic says, if they knew how well it worked when they were making all the big bucks last year, why didn't they see it coming and head it off?
HILL: An excellent point.
Tom Foreman, thanks.
FOREMAN: See what happens.
HILL: All right, coming up, two of the smartest economic minds around will tell us just what it will take to get some accountability on Wall Street.
Also ahead, anger over Barack Obama's Cabinet picks -- some of his supporters say they don't have enough seats at the table.
And remember when Joe Biden called Dick Cheney the most dangerous vice president in American history? Don't chalk it up to campaign smack talk. With the inauguration just weeks away, the relations between the two men have turned downright frosty. The V.P. smackdown -- coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: This country is in the midst of the worst economic meltdown in decades. The government has set aside $700 billion in taxpayer money, your money, to rescue financial companies in distress.
Well, now some of those same companies benefiting from the rescue money refuse to say how they're using it. How is that OK?
For answers, I am going to ask our economic experts joining us tonight, Robert Reich, former U.S. secretary of labor under President Clinton. His latest book is "Supercapitalism: The Transformation of Business, Democracy, and Everyday Life."
Also joining us, Stephen Moore, senior economics writer for "The Wall Street Journal" editorial board and the author of "The End of Prosperity."
Gentlemen, good to have you both with us, as always.
Robert, I want to start off with you and I want to start off a quote from the spokesman for J.P. Morgan Chase, one of the companies that received money, in fact, $25 billion in taxpayer dollars. The Associated Press asked what the company was using the money for. Here is the response -- quote -- "We have lent some of it. We have not lent some of it. We have not given any accounting of here's how we're doing it and we have not disclosed that to the public. We are declining to."
How is it OK to just say, you know what, we're not going to tell you?
ROBERT REICH, FORMER LABOR SECRETARY: Well, Erica, I don't think it is OK. I think it's outrageous, as a matter of fact.
As the General Accounting Office, the Government Accountability Office recently said, there are no controls. Now any bank, any institution that agrees to take taxpayer money ought to also agree to transparency, so the public sees exactly what they're doing with that money
HILL: They ought to agree to the transparency. But, as you said, in that GAO report, the report found -- and I'm quoting here -- "that Treasury cannot effectively hold participating institutions accountable" because the rules weren't there from the beginning.
So, Stephen, is there a way to now fix this, Stephen?
STEPHEN MOORE, "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL": Well, I think people are extremely angry about this. Robert Reich is actually right for once.
And I think that when you look at money being used for Learjets and for parties at swanky resorts, when they're taking taxpayer money, people are just extraordinarily upset by this.
And the problem isn't just what Robert Reich said, that there's not a lot of transparency about how the companies are using money. But there's also a problem, Erica, in that a lot of taxpayers don't know even what criteria is used. Why does bank A get money, but not bank B doesn't get money? They keep changing the rules. There's not transparency about what happened to the first $350 billion.
(CROSSTALK)
MOORE: And, by the way, Erica, that's the reason I think the next tranche of money that the Treasury wants to spend, there's a lot in Congress who are having second thoughts about that.
REICH: Well, you know, Erica, Steve Moore is uncharacteristically correct also in all of this.
(LAUGHTER)
REICH: And it's not a laughing matter, actually.
We're talking about a huge amount of money. And it's not only is it not transparent to the public, but even the banks themselves don't know what other banks are doing. Even the Treasury doesn't know exactly what it is doing. It has changed the criteria along the way.
This has been $350 billion that, although we don't know what would have happened without it, we certainly know that it did not help very much.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: Didn't exactly do what it was supposed to.
(CROSSTALK)
MOORE: And, again, I would have to agree.
HILL: I just want to move on to this point, though, although I do love the holiday lovefest of everybody agreeing here.
(LAUGHTER)
MOORE: It's very rare.
HILL: In terms of being out of touch, too, what about Wall Street? Because Wall Street seems increasingly out of touch with Main Street, not only for the answers that they're giving about where the money is going. But we're still hearing about execs pocketing multimillion-dollar bonuses.
And what a lot of people want to know, is any of that money -- and, Robert, I will let you answer this one -- is any of the money actually coming from the bailout?
REICH: Of course it is.
MOORE: Yes, I'm all in favor of people getting bailouts -- I mean, not bailouts -- bonuses when the companies are making money. I'm all in favor of that.
My goodness, if they can pay baseball pitchers $130 million, I don't have a problem with companies making money for investors.
HILL: But they're not making money.
(CROSSTALK)
MOORE: But this is a problem -- the problem here is, A, the companies aren't making money, so I don't think they should be getting notices. And, B, when they're taking taxpayer dollars, I think they forfeit their right for multimillion-dollar bonuses.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: And, Robert, is it definitely coming from the taxpayers? Is this money from the bailout?
REICH: Undoubtedly, it's coming from the taxpayers indirectly, because, look, the money would not be there.
Had, for example, Morgan Stanley not got $10 billion from the taxpayers, it would not have the money to pay all of those bonuses. Even Lloyd Blankfein, who is the CEO of Morgan Stanley, who decided not to go along and not to take a bonus, he's still getting $600,000 this year, and that's not nothing. I mean, that's far more than most Americans make in many, many years.
(CROSSTALK)
MOORE: The lesson here is, this is why bailouts are not a very good solution to solving our economic problems, Erica, because we don't know where the money goes. We're subsidizing the bad firms and taking money from the good ones. I think it's a terrible economic strategy. I hope Obama moves away from it.
HILL: Well, speaking of Obama, we have a very short amount of time for this question. But I know Stephen a pretty big believer of Reaganomics.
But, as you have been an adviser in the past to president-elect Obama, Robert, what do you think heading forward? How can Obama fix this problem? How will he do it?
REICH: Well, there will be a second tranche, I imagine, another $350 billion. Congress has agreed in principle to that. And that will come.
And I expect the Obama administration will agree to it, with very, very strong strings attached, in order to get that money down to Main Street. The entire purpose of all of these Wall Street bailouts was to get money to mortgage owners who are in some difficulty, people who were small businesses who couldn't get loans otherwise...
HILL: OK.
REICH: ... in other words, to get Main Street back on its feet.
HILL: I have to ask a quick yes or no. And I mean yes or no, Stephen. But will the president-elect be able to rally Congress behind him to support those moves?
MOORE: Well, I think that there will be some support for what Bob is talking about. The big battle is going to come from what Bob and I totally disagree on, which is whether we should spend another $800 billion on government subsidies for government programs. I'm totally against that. I think it's in the wrong direction. That's the big fight, I think, to come.
HILL: And that's one we will have to discuss another time.
Robert Reich, Stephen Moore, great to have you both here. Thank you.
(CROSSTALK)
REICH: Thanks, Erica. Bye-bye.
HILL: Just ahead, a very different kind of bailout. In fact, it's the big cheese of bailouts. Just what would 70 government million dollars buy you in Italy? Oh, stick around.
Plus, Barack Obama's Hawaiian vacation hideaway. We're going behind the scenes with the first family.
And left-wingers don't want Pastor Rick Warren to say an inaugural prayer for president-elect Obama. You will hear from Melissa Etheridge and from Pastor Warren himself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PASTOR RICK WARREN, AUTHOR, "THE PURPOSE DRIVEN LIFE": Now, this one will shock you. I happen to love Democrats and Republicans.
(LAUGHTER)
WARREN: And, for the media's purpose, I happen to love gays and straights.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DALIA VERED, FOURTH GRADER: Dear President Obama.
Hi, I'm Dalia Vered from California. I am 9 years old. I am writing this letter to first congratulate you on being elected president. I want people to live longer lives. And I know health care is an issue you would like to improve.
I think we need great scientists to work together to brainstorm to find a cure for cancer and other life-threatening diseases. Thank you for reading my letter. I hope you can accomplish many helpful and different things in our beloved country.
Sincerely, Dalia Vered.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: We are hearing from so many great letter-writers like Dalia. She is a fourth-grader, by the way, at Kadima Hebrew Academy in West Hills, California.
All across the country, children are writing letters to the president-elect. And we love it when you share them with us. So, all you need to do to send us your letter to the president, just log on to CNN.com/Campbell. And, when you get there, look for the I-Report link on our Web site.
Well, tonight, the president-elect and his family are in Hawaii, where they're getting a little R&R before the big move to Washington. They have rented a $9 million oceanfront home, but the vacation is not all sun, surf and golf. There is vital work going on behind the scenes of the Obama economic recovery plan and also there's a very important report on a scandal back home which is likely tomorrow's top story.
senior White House correspondent Ed Henry really drew the short straw this time. He's in Honolulu covering the president-elect.
Those jokes are never going to get old, Ed. You know that, right?
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: No, I know that.
(LAUGHTER)
HENRY: Yes, you're just rubbing it in.
HILL: We are, because we're jealous, because we're stuck with snow.
Now, talking about tomorrow, which we do expect this really to be the big headline, Obama of course safely out of pocket in Hawaii, but his transition aides will be releasing this internal report as to their dealings with the scandal as far as Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich. Any advance word on what we can expect from that report?
HENRY: Yes, Erica.
And here's why it matters, obviously, because we're trying to answer these lingering questions about what role, if any, Obama aides like Rahm Emanuel had in this so-called pay-to-play scandal in Illinois.
It will not surprise you to learn that two Democratic officials are telling me tonight that this report tomorrow, their own internal investigation, let's remember, is going to largely exonerate team Obama, that it's going to show that there was sort of limited contact between Rahm Emanuel and the Illinois governor, Rod Blagojevich, maybe some more contact between Emanuel and Blagojevich's former chief of staff, but that the bottom line is that there's no wrongdoing, certainly not criminal wrongdoing, but nothing improper either.
One Democratic official telling me, this is going to be, this whole controversy, a whole lot about nothing. Critics, though, are going to wonder why, then, did they wait to release this report during Christmas week, when not a lot of people are paying attention?
One Democratic official insisted to me, look, the timing has been generated by the prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald. He didn't want an early release of this internal probe to sort of affect his criminal investigation in Illinois. And they say that's what's really been dictating it.
And the bottom line again is that there's no wrongdoing. So, they believe in the end it will be a whole lot about nothing -- Erica.
HILL: I guess we will have to wait until tomorrow to see the reaction, won't we, Ed?
Meantime, though, there is some work going on here -- plenty of work, actually -- he is the president-elect -- not all vacation. In terms of his economic team, the problems mounting, of course. We know that the team is preparing some pretty bold solutions. What are you hearing about the latest plans from team Obama for the economy?
HENRY: What I'm hearing is early last week in Chicago, there was this closed-door meeting. And my sources say that, basically, president-elect Obama was presented with information by his advisers that said basically this recession could be a lot worse than even is expected right now.
And he came back and said, look, we have got to be bigger, we have got to be bolder with our economic rescue package. And so now they're talking about something in the neighborhood of $775 billion, road and bridges projects, rebuilding schools, trying to get the economy jolted, get it jump-started.
And what's going to be fascinating is to see how this plays out on Capitol Hill. There are obviously a lot of lawmakers in both parties who want to do something to deal with this financial crisis. But they're getting fatigued with one bailout after another, and now potentially another $775 billion, money the government doesn't have right now -- Erica.
HILL: That could be a tough sticking point.
I do want to say, you know, we have been making a lot of jokes, Ed, about this being a very easy assignment for you. There you are, Diamond Head in the background. But you have legitimately been doing some very hard work there on the beach, on the golf course. And I think we have a picture. Look at the working conditions...
HENRY: Oh, OK. Here you go.
HILL: ... that poor Ed Henry is faced with.
HENRY: This is tough.
HILL: It's awful. Is there a waitress there bringing you drinks?
HENRY: No, there's not.
Wait. Why are they panning down now to my bathing suit? Now, that's unfair.
(LAUGHTER)
HENRY: Erica, you know, here is the bottom line, is that this assignment -- I did not choose this assignment.
HILL: Right.
HENRY: This assignment chose me.
HILL: It chose you.
HENRY: And I feel there is a duty not just to our network, but to our country, frankly.
HILL: Absolutely.
HENRY: And I also feel like you're kind of dogging me a little bit.
HILL: Never.
HENRY: And you know what? You are going to have to speak louder, because I can't really hear you, because the waves are crashing so loud. I can't really hear you. Do you want to speak up?
(LAUGHTER)
HILL: Oh, it ain't easy being Ed Henry.
Ed, thanks. I will probably talk to you tomorrow.
Enjoy the mai tais.
HENRY: I look forward to it.
(LAUGHTER)
HENRY: Thanks.
HILL: Obama's inauguration just under a month away, and believe it or not, it is never too soon to start complaining. Take a good look at what we're about to show you. Do you see anything missing from these pictures of his Cabinet nominees? Well, some people sure do, and they are not happy about it. Jessica Yellin tells us why.
And later in the "Political Daily Briefing," what Sarah Palin wishes she would had done differently during the campaign -- this from a brand-new interview.
Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: If you want to work in the Obama administration, you have got plenty of competition. A transition spokesman says at least 300,000 people filled out job applications so far. But get this. They're competing for only 8,000 job openings, which puts your odds of getting a job there roughly 40-1.
Of course, most of the key jobs on team Obama are already taken. And with those picks in place, people are taking a step back to assess the Cabinet as a whole, some folks pretty unhappy with what they're seeing.
National political correspondent Jessica Yellin has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): What includes five women, four African-Americans, three Latinos, two Asians, two Republicans, and a Nobel Prize winner? Barack Obama's Cabinet. The president-elect is taking the big-tent approach to governing. He wanted a Cabinet that stretches the tent wide.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENT-ELECT: I think people will feel that we followed through on our commitment to make sure that this is not only an administration that is diverse ethnically, but it's also diverse politically, and it's diverse in terms of people's life experience. YELLIN: Well, it might be diverse, but not everyone is happy. Some women's groups are disappointed. Among Obama's strongest backers during the election, now they say they don't have enough seats at the table. That's because, of Obama's 20 announced Cabinet-level posts, just five went to women.
KIM GANDY, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL ORGANIZATION FOR WOMEN: When you're looking at a Cabinet, and you have such a small number of women in the room when the big decisions are being made, there need to be a lot more women's voices in this administration.
YELLIN: Bill Clinton and George Bush each had a comparable number of women in their first Cabinets. Women's groups say they hoped they would make progress by now.
In fact, some are so angry that The New Agenda accuses Obama of taking "shocking steps backward" and says, "This constituency does not matter to the president-elect."
Obama says he's picking people for their skills, not pandering to special interests.
ANNE KORNBLUT, "THE WASHINGTON POST": In this case, we have seen Obama emphasize credentials. I think they obviously knew they would get a lot of bang for their buck, so to speak, in appointing Clinton, but, at the end of the day, the numbers aren't really any more impressive than any previous president.
YELLIN: In the election, women put Obama over the top. Add to this disappointed constituency a number of others. Many of Obama's gay and lesbian supporters are irate over the Rick Warren controversy. And some progressives are disappointed he's tapped moderates for key positions.
So, the question is, has Obama made the tent too big? Does he risk alienating his core supporters before he's even taken office?
This supporter says, no way.
DONNA BRAZILE, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: He has a team of heavyweights, a team of rivals who will help him set a new course and a new tone here in the nation's capital.
YELLIN (on camera): Privately, Barack Obama's team says, wait and see. They think it's too early to start criticizing Obama's picks before they even have had a chance to be sworn in.
Jessica Yellin, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HILL: Of course, there is another way of looking at Obama's Cabinet choices.
Six of his Cabinet secretaries will be current or former members of Congress. And we know, for the last few weeks, a number of people have been questioning whether that's the kind of change in Washington people voted for.
Joining us now to talk about the Obama Cabinet and more, CNN political analyst Roland Martin, Republican strategist Kevin Madden, and Michael Crowley, who is senior editor for "The New Republic."
Gentlemen, good to have you all here.
Kevin, I want to start with you.
You just heard Jessica's report, Obama getting fair amount of criticism for his Cabinet picks, not enough women, not enough diversity. Are those fair criticisms?
KEVIN MADDEN, FORMER ROMNEY CAMPAIGN NATIONAL PRESS SECRETARY: Well, look here, I don't want to be accused of defending the Democrat here or Barack Obama, so let me defend the office of the executive.
And any executive ought to be allowed to pick those that he thinks are qualified. He shouldn't have to go down and fill out a list of whether or not we have enough African-Americans, enough women, enough Asian-Americans. It ought to be about who is best qualified.
And I think Barack Obama has gone out there and chosen people that he thinks have policy views that fit his and are qualified. And they happen to be a number of women. There happen to be a number of African-Americans, Asian-Americans. And it's very representative of America as a whole. And I think that's the most important.
Ultimately, an executive has to choose those people that he thinks are best qualified and hold the views that he holds.
HILL: So, Roland, Roland, is there too much focus, then, on satisfying certain groups and not enough focus on looking at the qualifications, as Kevin mentioned?
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: This is the most utterly useless conversations that exists every four years, because folks always do this, Republicans and Democrats.
I actually got an e-mail from somebody who complained that there were not enough dark-skinned African-Americans. Obama was only choosing light-skinned African-Americans. That's how crazy this conversation is. How many women should he choose? Should it be 10 out of the 20? Should it be 50 percent, as opposed to 25 percent?
It is a ridiculous conversation. The focus of any of these groups, whether you're women, African-American, Hispanic, whether you're progressive, should be, what are the policies that are going to be initiated?
When President Bush, when he first made his appointments, you had Colin Powell, who obviously was secretary of state. But one of the things people never talked about, there were four African-Americans who were in the number-two positions at the various departments, they were the ones who operated as the chief operating officers. And so, this whole notion that you should only look at those folks it's a policy position.
Look at Melanie Barnes. She's over -- when it comes to domestic policy. You got people in critical jobs. It's not always just about the cabinet level jobs.
HILL: All right. So we're going to move on from that one. Seems like there's a bit of agreement on that point.
Michael, I want to turn to you. When it comes to the economy. We just heard from Ed Henry about the work going on behind the scenes. This isn't all a vacation.
Really Obama trying to send a clear image to House Democrats that he needs their support on the stimulus plan, but they're also walking a fine line, not only supporting the president but they also have to reestablish some independents. So what kind of response do you think that the president-elect will get?
MICHAEL CROWLEY, "THE NEW REPUBLIC": Well, I think that people realize how serious the economy is. I think that there's actually pretty good consensus among House Democrats. The stimulus plan is something you have to do.
You're hearing some Republicans saying boy, that's a lot of money. It's not the way we would do it. I think they're worried that, you know, this is going to be a kind of in their nightmare. You know, the liberals are going to go crazy, spending money on everything that they've always wanted to. But the fact is that actually a stimulus of this size is going to be a dream for every individual congressman and senator. You know, you're going to see these gleaming, you know, steel bridges over every river and creek in every rural district in America with the local congressman's name on it as a result of this thing.
HILL: Is it really going to be that picturesque because you paint a very rosy picture? But I have a feeling that the reality is not quite as pretty.
CROWLEY: Well, again, I mean so much is going to depend on the particulars of the plan, I think. And we'll have to see whether Republicans in particular can get a foothold and find projects that look ridiculous that they can tear down. But a lot of them I think really are going to be happy to have this money come into their districts and their states. But the bottom line is I also think people just to understand that there's a consensus among main stream economists that we need to be spending. We need a package of this size.
HILL: Right.
CROWLEY: We're in a once in a generation, every two generation kind of economic crisis.
HILL: Something's got to give no matter what.
CROWLEY: Yes. HILL: All right. We'll be looking to see how that all pans out.
Kevin, tomorrow, of course, a lot of talk about the fact that we're finally going to get to see this internal review from the Obama team about their dealings with Governor Blagojevich's office. Is this going to put an end to those questions about the Obama camp involvement?
KEVIN MADDEN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, I think one internal report is not really going to put anything to an end. I'm very skeptical that it will end any of the flurry of activity both from political observers and those in the media about this.
You know, if there's ten questions, unanswered questions out there, and this report were to answer eight, I think the focus would then shift to those two unanswered questions. And those two unanswered questions would become the new story of the day.
I think it's going to continue to be a distraction. I think it will probably subside a little bit because of the Christmas holiday, but I think come January, again, if there's still some unanswered questions out there, you're just going to see a little bit more.
HILL: Roland, you're shaking your head in agreement.
MARTIN: Yes, he's right. I mean, bottom line is --
HILL: It's not enough, you're saying?
MARTIN: He's right. If it's 10 questions, eight answered. People are going to focus on the two. If you're the Obama folks, look, Blagojevich is in office, he hasn't resigned. You have to move on. You cannot be paralyzed of what he is doing. Put the report out and move on.
HILL: We'll see if that can happen.
(CROSSTALK)
MADDEN: Just twice said.
CROWLEY: Well, it's just the economy, the big issues are Iraq, Afghanistan or in the comeback of the four in January when Obama is inaugurated. And I think that this is going to be forgotten.
HILL: So that will push this out of the way.
CROWLEY: And the real world reminds us, you know, that this is a kind of a sideshow.
HILL: There are bigger problems that the country has to deal with.
CROWLEY: I hope so, yes.
HILL: All right. CROWLEY: I hope so.
HILL: Michael, Kevin, Roland, stick around. We're going to check back in with you in a second as we talked about Barack Obama in Hawaii. Next in the "Political Daily Briefing," the play part of his vacation, set the work aside for a minute. Just what does the president-elect do in a rented beachfront home?
Plus, Pastor Rick Warren a bit later with a message for his critics. Is it enough to make them pipe down about his role at Obama's inauguration?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PASTOR RICK WARREN, SADDLEBACK CHURCH: Now, this one will shock you. I happen to love Democrats and Republicans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: But wait, there's more. Just ahead, a "NO BIAS, NO BULL" look at whether the Warren controversy really will last us all the way through until the inauguration.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: In our "Political Daily Briefing" tonight, Sarah Palin's campaign regrets and a letter to the editor that definitely was not fit to print. Randi Kaye joining us with that and more in tonight's PDB. And top topping the "Political Daily Briefing" tonight, Governor Palin is speaking out saying she wishes she'd done a little more of something on the campaign trail.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. She has not done talking, Erica.
HILL: Really?
KAYE: She has plenty more to say. In fact, she told a conservative newspaper, "Human Events," that she wasn't allowed to do many interviews and the ones that she was allowed to do weren't ones that she would have chosen. She said, quoting here, "If I would have been in charge I would have wanted to speak to more reporters because that's how you get your message out to the electorate."
Well, I bet the reporters would have like to have heard from her. She also said that the biggest mistake of her candidacy was not being able to call all of the shots. I guess the way -- what she means by that is that she's used to be being in charge of Alaska.
HILL: Right.
KAYE: She doesn't have to answer to anybody, and this was just not how she does things.
HILL: She wasn't necessarily in charge in this whole scenario.
KAYE: She certainly wasn't.
HILL: We'll be interested to see where that goes next. The "New York Times" meantime now apologizing for printing. This is while a fake letter today about Caroline Kennedy in the paper --
KAYE: In the paper today, in case you saw it, the letter was said to be from the mayor of Paris and called Caroline Kennedy's bid to replace Hillary Clinton as senator of New York surprising, undemocratic and appalling, saying, in part, this is just part of the letter, "We French can only see a dynastic move of the vanishing Kennedy clan in the very country of the bill of rights. It is both surprising and appalling. With all due respect and administration I have for Ms. Kennedy's late father, I find her bid in very poor taste."
But it turns out, who knew, the letter wasn't actually from the mayor of Paris. Go figure. By this afternoon, "The Times" had updated its Web site to inform viewers the letter was a fake and explained what happened, saying that the letter, like most of them they receive, had been e-mailed to them and that they printed it without verifying where it came from.
They said, "The Times" --
HILL: That's a little scary.
KAYE: Yes, very scary. "The Times" says -- they said that "we should have contacted Mr. Delanoe's office -- that's the mayor of Paris -- to verify that he had, in fact, written to us. We did not do that."
HILL: I'm really --
KAYE: Ooops.
HILL: I'm really surprised that they wouldn't. It's the mayor's affairs or not.
KAYE: Or it's the holidays. It's tough to reach people.
HILL: Everybody is busy, short-staffed, we understand.
KAYE: Yes.
HILL: Like around these parts. Anyway, fine speech (ph) tonight, speaking of short staff as people are on vacation, the president-elect, a little R&R.
KAYE: Yes, working vacation.
HILL: Before the wheels really start rolling.
KAYE: Absolutely.
HILL: So what is he doing for the non-work portion? KAYE: Well, let's start with where he's staying. How about that? It's quite nice. It's in Kailua, about a 30-minute drive or so from Honolulu, where Obama was born. He spent 14 of his first 18 years of his life there. Staying in a $9 million single story five- bedroom home in Kailua.
HILL: Wow.
KAYE: Five bedrooms I guess maybe the Secret Service is joining them I'm sure.
HILL: Probably.
KAYE: Sits on about an acre of land with public beach and front. And according to last year's real estate listing of the house, there is a stone encircled swimming pool, an open air sitting room with views of the grassy lawn and the ocean. It's quite nice as you can see. And today Obama began his day. He went to the gym, he went around 7:00 a.m. Afterwards he was greeted about -- greeted by about 20 Marines or so and he thanked them and took pictures of them.
And yesterday he also went to the gym. He got a little golf. In fact, just a few fun facts about his golfing before I have to go here. Obama and two of his friends and political aide hit up the links in the area of Wiamanalo. They played for five hours.
In case you're wondering, yes, they stopped at the snack bar. What did the president-elect eat? We know you want to know.
Two hotdogs, two passion orange sodas, one Powerade, one Coke and one Spam musubi, which is just like sushi-like Hawaiian type thing. He also I guess ran into the pool of reporters...
HILL: Right.
KAYE: ... and he told them to get some beers on his tab. But as far as we can tell, no reporters or members of the crew got any.
HILL: Maybe they had a few later.
KAYE: It was nice of him to offer.
HILL: It was very nice to offer.
KAYE: Yes.
HILL: Yes. Randi Kaye...
KAYE: It's the holidays.
HILL: ... it's nice to see you.
KAYE: You, too.
HILL: Thanks. President Bush and President-elect Obama seem to be getting along just fine. So where is the love, a heartbeat away from the Oval Office? Why Dick Cheney and Joe Biden probably aren't swapping Christmas cards this year.
And bailouts Italian style. Guess who else is getting a slice or maybe a sprinkle. Chew on that for a minute. We'll have the answer in tonight's "Briefing." There is it in the shopping cart.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: The election's over, so why can't two of the biggest names in Washington seem to bury the hatchet? That's coming up.
First, though, Joe Johns back with tonight's "Briefing."
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Erica, breaking news from Minnesota tonight. A large apartment complex is on fire in the city of Burnsville, just south of the Twin Cities. No word yet on injuries. The temperature there is expected to go down to zero tonight.
A jury has found five Muslim immigrants guilty of conspiring to kill soldiers at Fort Dix, New Jersey. The men were arrested after they tried to buy AK-47s and M-16s. All five were cleared of attempted murder charges, but they still could get life in prison. The evidence included a video, showing them shooting at a target range and yelling in Arabic "God is great."
We've learned tonight that the pilot of a Continental Airlines jet that skidded off a runway is among the injured. He's hospitalized in serious condition. Thirty-seven others were hurt in Saturday's accident at Denver International Airport. A source tells CNN a possible problem with the landing gear tires or brakes could have caused a wheel to lock up.
The Iraqi journalist who threw his shoes at President Bush goes on trial on New Year's eve. Last Sunday's attacker has widespread support among Iraqis. His brother claims the journalist is being tortured in custody, but also says he'd throw the shoes again.
And this bailout might actually leave a good taste in your mouth. Italy's government is coming to the rescue of parmesan cheese makers. The government is reportedly buying 100,000 wheels of cheese for about $70 million U.S. and donating them to charity.
For years, cheese makers who create authentic parmesan have lost money on it. Some people are belly-aching over this bailout though. Makers of buffalo mozzarella say they've never gotten a single dime of help. And Erica --
HILL: Whoa, a lot of different cheeses. Who needs another? We actually have a large wheel of parm here in the studio that we got. Check this out. We needed a shop cart because it weighs 90 pounds.
JOHNS: Oh, wow. HILL: Joe Johns, if you wanted to get this for someone as perhaps a late Christmas gift...
JOHNS: Hey, all you need is --
HILL: ... 15 bucks a pound, it would cost you over $1,400.
JOHNS: Well, olive oil there, you know.
HILL: Right. And a glass of red wine.
JOHNS: Candlelight.
HILL: I can smell it.
JOHNS: Yes.
HILL: It's killing me. I'm ready for dinner.
JOHNS: Loaf of bread. It's not bad.
HILL: All right. I'll meet you in the break room. Joe, thanks.
Barack Obama is still catching some heat for one inauguration guest. Pastor Rick Warren who will deliver that opening prayer, but some in the gay community are furious because of Warren's support of California's gay marriage ban.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: This may be Christmas week but there is no goodwill in some quarters over President-elect Obama's choice of Pastor Rick Warren to give the opening prayers at next month's inauguration. Critics say the invitation is a mistake because of Warren's outspoken opposition to gay marriage. Warren acknowledged the controversy over the weekend.
Check out what he told several hundred people at a convention of the Muslim Public Affairs Council in California.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PASTOR RICK WARREN, SADDLEBACK CHURCH: Now this one will shock you. I happen to love Democrats and Republicans. And for the media's purpose, I happen to love gays and straights.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: Singer/songwriter Melissa Etheridge, who is a lesbian, performed at that same convention and told reporters she is more than OK with Obama's inviting Warren to pray at the inauguration.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MELISSA ETHERIDGE, SINGER, LESBIAN ACTIVIST: We can no longer be divided the way we have been before in to us and them. We are part of a bigger picture of America and America's moving forward. And Pastor Warren is part of that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: Vice President-elect Joe Biden chiming in on that controversy tonight on "LARRY KING LIVE" at the top of the hour. And among the other topics Larry discussed with Biden, controversial Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich. The vice president-elect not exactly a fan. Take a listen to what he told Larry King.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT-ELECT: Those tapes that were released by the special prosecutor, by the -- excuse me, the U.S. attorney, seem incredibly, incredibly incriminating. It's a decision for the people of Illinois to make and the legislature of Illinois to make but from where I sit he looks like a guy who is not capable of governing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: In a prime time exclusive tonight, Vice President-elect Joe Biden talks about the changing role of the vice president and what the Obama administration will mean for America. That's coming up on "LARRY KING LIVE" right here on CNN, in just a few minutes.
But even before Larry gets to go, the verbal smack-down between Joe Biden and Dick Cheney. Their comments about the vice presidency and the other guy's approach to that job. They're getting downright ugly and we have them for you, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: It's clear that President-elect Obama believes in the importance and the value of cooperation. In other words, lions and lambs ought to lie down together.
Well in politics that, of course, extends to the hawks and the doves, liberals and conservatives. There are some rivals, though, who are still slugging it out.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HILL (voice-over): In this corner, Dick Cheney, vice president for the last eight years under George W. Bush. And in this corner, Joseph Biden, vice president-elect set to take office with Barack Obama on January 20th. And it's pretty clear these two will never be best friends. It all started with Joe Biden's assessment of Dick Cheney out on the campaign trail.
JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT-ELECT: Vice President Cheney has been the most dangerous vice president we've had probably in American history.
HILL: Mr. Cheney came back with a counterpunch this weekend on "FOX News Sunday" saying Joe Biden doesn't even understand which part of the U.S. constitution describes the duties of the vice president. DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Joe's been chairman of the Judiciary Committee, a member of the Judiciary Committee and the Senate for 36 years, teaches constitutional law back in Delaware and can't keep straight which article of the constitution provides for the legislature and which provides for the executives. If he wants to diminish the office of vice president, that's obviously his call.
HILL: Biden got back in the ring on the same day on ABC's "This Week with George Stephanopolous" saying Cheney --
BIDEN: Has been not healthy for our foreign policy, not healthy for our national security, and has not been consistent with our constitution.
HILL: And the sparring continued an entire network away.
CHENEY: President-elect Obama will decide what he wants in a vice president and apparently from the way they're talking about it, he does not expect him to have as consequential a role as I have had during my time.
HILL: As for the outgoing veep's advice to the incoming number two? He was asked about that in the FOX interview, too.
CHENEY: Well, he hasn't asked for any.
HILL: I guess you could say at least they're not pretending. Though with all these jabs, it really makes you wonder what was said when the Cheneys had the Bidens over to tour the naval observatory last month.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HILL: Well, tomorrow, Biden has some serious work to do. Democratic officials tell CNN he will meet with the incoming administration's top economic advisers, including former Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers. They will be working out Obama's economic recovery plan which is expected to carry the whopping price tag of $775 billion give or take a few billion. And to get more on this, and also the incoming VP's role, I want to bring back our political panel tonight, CNN political analyst, Roland Martin, Republican strategist Kevin Madden, and "New Republic" senior editor Michael Crowley.
Michael, I want to start with you on this one. Let's talk about the first big meeting, big solo meeting for Joe Biden since the election with the cabinet in place. How do you now see and everything we've heard from Joe Biden, how do you see his vice presidency shaping up, his role?
CROWLEY: Well, he's maintained actually a surprisingly low profile up to this point. And I think they're ready for him to play a somewhat bigger role. But it really sounds like Obama and he had a conversation where when he chose Biden, he was going to have a real role. This was not going to be a figurehead kind of position. He was really going to be a counselor, someone who could help. You know, Obama's chosen so many people who can help steer him through Washington and sort of its Byzantine customs and corridors. And I think that's going to be the role he plays without being sort of aggressive and expansive, like Dick Cheney as we've heard Biden say. So hopefully that will be a good balance and I think it should suit him well.
HILL: So he'll still hold on to a little bit of that power?
CROWLEY: Well, I mean, nobody in Washington ever gives up all their power no matter what they say although Biden is the first politician in the city to ever say, well, I'm willing to take less power than I'm entitled to right now.
HILL: OK. Kevin, because Joe Biden has made it clear that he is no Dick Cheney and he plans to significantly dial back that power, a rarity as we just heard from Michael, is that a mistake, do you think, for him to say?
MADDEN: Well, yes, I mean, that's why I was struck by the comments. I think that Joe Biden seems to be talking past Vice President Cheney. He's saying that he's going to give back power. Yet at the same time, he's talking about how he's going to be in the room at every single critical decision. He's going to chair a task force on the middle class and the economy, and those are things that essentially Dick Cheney did.
Now, there will always be criticism from the left and opponents of this administration that this was an imperial presidency. But essentially, the role of the vice president, its powers derived by essentially presidential fiat. The role of the vice president is what the president says it is. So I think that he's probably talking about having a similar level of access to the president but he's talking about it differently.
HILL: So then, Roland, and this has got to be a quick answer from you, my friend. What does Joe Biden need to do then to give the office of the vice president some teeth without encountering in turn all that criticism that he could for making it too Cheney-like?
MARTIN: He needs to -- unlike Cheney he needs to be a quiet adviser to the president. Now granted, Cheney was very discrete, but the difference was you had Cheney with his own national security apparatus. I mean, people talked about how he and his own folks at the Pentagon, at the CIA, he had a whole different level of influence over those various factions.
Biden's whole deal is going to be at the side of Obama giving him advice versus trying to be a major player in other areas of the White House. That's what his role has to be.
HILL: Although some could argue, though, he's got all that influence when it does come to foreign affairs, and we know that was a little bit of a sticking point. There's been a lot of talk about that with Hillary Clinton potentially getting that role as secretary of state after the hearings. All right. We're going to leave it there. Roland, Kevin, Michael, good to have you all come back with us.
And when we return again, bitter cold in much of the country. A big question for many, will this last through Christmas? We will check in with the severe weather center to get you an answer.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: One of our i-Reporters found a way to make this in bad winter weather. Check this out.
Billy Swikowski (ph) proposed to his girlfriend Amy Weiner (ph) in Massapequa, Long Island, a suburb of New York City, by writing as you saw there, "Will you marry me" on the snowy windshield of several cars. Her answer, by the way, yes.
I get chills from that and not because of the snow. Nice work, kid.
All right. Not only is it shaping up to be a white Christmas in much of the country but it could be a very cold one. We're talking bone-chilling cold. A lot of you are experiencing it right now.
Our severe weather expert Chad Myers joining us with the news. I wish it wasn't so bad, Chad.
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: And that Amy, that i-Reporter there said it's going to be a cold day in Long Island when I marry you, and it was.
HILL: Oh -- ba-dum-ching (ph).
MYERS: And it's a cold day across parts of the Midwest too. Chicago and Milwaukee at two degrees right now. Two, that's without the wind chill factor. In Chicago, rain showers now through the valley of the sun. Phoenix, Scottsdale, all the way up even through Prescott turning to a little bit of snow farther up to the north.
Take a look at some of these pictures out of Washington State. This is what happened to a building when you don't shovel it. Boy, the snow built on top, about two feet thick, got too heavy and it collapsed. The only irony is here this building actually builds sheds so maybe you need to put some stronger supports underneath that.
And also now some i-Reports, I want to take you to a couple of more pictures of where the snow has been very thick and tough to drive in, too. The first snow of the season is always the hardest. People were sliding around, had a 100-car pile-up in Michigan yesterday, yesterday afternoon. Now one person dead from that crash, and that's what you want to try to avoid, is locking up those brakes. See if you can make sure those anti-lock brakes are working for you.
The key I guess there is just slow the heck down, because it's going to take you a whole lot longer to stop at that red light than you probably thought. And biking, seems like a good idea but two wheels kind of slippery compared to four.
HILL: Yes. I don't think I would try that in the snow and the ice. Not on my bike.
MYERS: Erica, I tried to bicycle on the ice. It doesn't work very well.
HILL: I'm not going to test it. Chad, thanks.
MYERS: All right.
HILL: That is going to do it for us here tonight. But I'll see you back here tomorrow.
"LARRY KING LIVE"'s prime time exclusive with Vice President- elect Joe Biden starts right now.
