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Campbell Brown
Obama Releases Report on Blagojevich Contacts; River Road of Terror
Aired December 23, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everyone. I'm Erica Hill. Campbell is off tonight.
Tonight, Barack Obama's staff finally fills in the blanks on Blagojevich.
Bullet point number one, after weeks of near silence, the transition team says it is a fact: No one from the Obama camp had inappropriate contact with the governor of Illinois, a fellow Democrat who stands accused of trying to sell Obama's old Senate seat.
Tonight, we're told the president-elect himself sat down with federal prosecutors just days ago, and that is why his staff waited until this week to release the details.
Of course, this is also a week when many Americans have other things on their minds, but not us. And, so, we're going bring you up to speed on all of this tonight.
Bullet point number two, just how merry do you feel when it comes to your money and Christmas shopping? Tomorrow could be make or break for retailers in a holiday season where they haven't had much spirit. We're hitting the streets to find out what shoppers are buying and how they're feeling tonight.
Bullet point number three, people trapped by rushing water on a street named River Road. One look at these pictures, and you will understand why so many people are thankful just to have gotten out alive after a huge water main break in Maryland.
Listen to this frantic 911 call.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can't see anything. I need help.
OPERATOR: Ma'am, we're on our way. We will be there very shortly. I have units responding to you now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. I can't see anything. Please.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
HILL: It gives you chills.
Bullet point number four: drawing a line between the press and the next president. Barack Obama knew he would be in the spotlight 24/7 when he ran for office. So, do he and his family have any expectation of privacy, and should they? Tonight, we will talk about the photos that are testing those boundaries.
But, first, we want to take you back to the shopping and what it all means for your bottom line. There is one more day to fill those stockings and we're happy to report a little glimmer of hope tonight. While it may be lower than in years past, consumer confidence is actually up just in time for the holidays, but are people really spending?
Our Tom Foreman is in the middle of it all right here in New York City tonight.
Hi, Tom.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Erica.
I was on the street with shoppers here in New York all day today. And the simple truth is, it's one of those worst of times/best of times situations. A lot of people don't feel confident enough to go spend any money, but those who are spending are getting some real deals.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN (voice-over): They may as well be ringing alarm bells at retail stores nationwide. All those signs of deep discounts on the doorstep of Christmas are signs of a brutally cold holiday sales season. Sure, that's great news for consumers with enough confidence to buy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I went up to the register and I found this was 25 percent off, and I didn't even know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can buy one and get one free.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's like 25 percent, 30 percent off.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have been doing very well with the sales.
FOREMAN: But all that is terrible for retailers. The International Council of Shopping Centers is predicting the worst holiday season in decades, with sales actually falling, perhaps 2 percent, where they usually rise.
With retail accounting for a quarter of the jobs lost already this year, this will cost even more. And, as it is, our latest CNN/Opinion Research poll shows more than nine out of 10 Americans think the economy is in poor shape.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's going to get worse before it gets better.
FOREMAN (on camera): That's not very encouraging. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's what I think.
KEATING HOLLAND, CNN POLLING DIRECTOR: Sixty-six percent say economic conditions are very poor. I'm not sure we have ever seen anything like that in recent polling history, at any rate. This time last year, it was only about 21 percent saying things were very poor. And that, as you will recall, was when this recession officially began.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Even those who are spending, like Angie Bracer (ph), are keeping a careful eye on the bottom line.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know in like Wal-Mart and other locations like that, they definitely have lowered the prices.
FOREMAN (on camera): Much lower than usual?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I think so, absolutely. I'm a bargain shopper. I don't pay top dollar for anything, unless I absolutely have to.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN: If you're looking for good news in all of this, Erica, the simple truth is, there is some. There are people who are hopeful out there today. Most shoppers seemed enthusiastic, doing the best they could. And our new poll also has a glimmer of hope in it. Most people in this country think the economy will get better by next Christmas, but that's a way off -- Erica.
HILL: Indeed it is. We will keep watching it. Tom, thanks.
So, will the economy really improve by next Christmas, as many are hoping? And how exactly will that happen?
Let's get some insight for you from the money coach, personal finance expert Lynnette Khalfani-Cox, and Terry Savage, "Chicago Sun- Times" personal finance columnist and also the author of "The Savage Number: How Much Money Do You Need to Retire?"
Good to have you both with us tonight.
Terry, as we just heard from Tom Foreman there, 93 percent of Americans say the economic conditions are poor. And, really, it doesn't get much worse than that. Consumer confidence, though, as we know, inched up slightly, still well below last year's level. So, how can the economy recover here if Americans don't seem to have quite as much faith in a recovery right away?
TERRY SAVAGE, FINANCIAL COLUMNIST, "THE CHICAGO SUN-TIMES": Well, I think Americans have faith in the longer-term future, but they also realize they have a lot of stuff. They have been shopping for years.
And Americans also have a lot of debt and a relatively low level of savings. We have been dissaving, living on credit cards for the last three or four years. That's a potent combination when you add to that news of job losses every day and home prices falling.
So, Americans are smarter than we give them credit for. We have been living in a little bit of a dream bubble for a while. But now Americans are recognizing the reality. And, when we get through this, we will come out on the other side stronger.
HILL: Hopefully stronger in terms of saving. I know that's something that both you and Lynnette are big advocates for. And, as you mentioned, we're seeing more of it.
But let's be honest here, Lynnette. Two-thirds of the U.S. economy is consumer spending, so the best thing for the country is really to spend, while as we know the best thing for individual Americans is to save. So how do you balance those two in the near term?
LYNNETTE KHALFANI-COX, THE MONEY COACH.NET: Well, I'm a big proponent of people taking care of their personal financial affairs.
I don't think none of us -- any of us should have to be sort of financial kamikazes and sort of fall an our sword and fail to save in order for the greater good of the country. Some of those issues are going to have to be wrought out by policy measures. And, obviously, the incoming Obama administration is looking at doing a number of things to address those three factors that Terry just mentioned with regard to jobs, the housing market and the stock market.
But individuals, families have to first take care of their individual personal financial affairs, and not be so overly concerned about what they can do to -- you know, whether it's to spend or do something else, to improve the overall economy.
HILL: Terry, when it comes to state by state when we look at the economy, the numbers can be even more depressing.
We are hearing from California that they could be bankrupt by February. The governor there, I think we have a quick bit of bite from him that I want to get you to listen to and get your opinion on.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), CALIFORNIA: Now, the craziest thing about this is that here's president-elect Obama, who is talking about an infrastructure package to rebuild the whole United States, to put people to work, to stimulate the economy. And we here at the same time are canceling infrastructure projects. Is that not ironic? Is that not crazy?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: So, Governor Schwarzenegger talking about the plan, but saying, look, in his state, it's already too late.
Is the stimulus plan from what we know of it going to work, Terry? SAVAGE: Well, that's very interesting, because we never question that the federal government says, well, we will make it $300 billion or $500 billion or $700 billion or a trillion dollars, because we know the federal government can literally create that money through the printing presses, the Federal Reserve system, or try to borrow it from the rest of the world.
The states are a little bit limited in that. They're bound to have a balanced budget, because they don't have access to the printing presses. So, they're forced to face reality first. And certainly if there is a federal infrastructure program, it will be probably best done through the states. They're best qualified to know where the programs needs to be done.
But, then, on the other hand, you raise that specter of, OK, I want mine, and each state representative and senator trying to get a bit of that huge pork barrel that's going to be inevitable if there's a huge spending program.
HILL: Going to be a lot of give and take, and we will be hearing a little bit about that pork, I imagine.
Terry Savage, Lynnette Khalfani-Cox, thank you both for being with us.
Just ahead, the Obama staff explains its contacts with Governor Rod Blagojevich. I will ask our political panel if the president- elect is really in the clear tonight.
Also, more women sharing the gift of life, but they're not giving it away: human eggs for cash.
And, later, high drama in high water, the street that suddenly became a raging river.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: Late developments tonight in the corruption scandal over Barack Obama's Senate seat.
Obama's top lawyer says his investigation shows no one on the transition team, from the president-elect on down, had inappropriate discussions with Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich. The governor, you may recall, was arrested two weeks ago and is accused of trying to sell Obama's seat to the highest bidder.
Well, the bottom line of today's long-awaited report, no inappropriate contact, never any talk of a deal. The report came out late this afternoon, two days before Christmas, of course, as the man who had the most personal contact with Blagojevich, Obama's chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, left for an African vacation with his family, and the president-elect, of course, is kicking back in Hawaii.
Senior White House correspondent Ed Henry joining us from Honolulu tonight to break down the details of the report.
Ed, as much as we got a lot of what we expected, there was actually a little surprise in the report here.
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Big-time, a huge surprise, in fact, Erica, which is that we learned from this report that last week very quietly, even before he takes office, the president-elect was interviewed by the prosecutor in this case, Patrick Fitzgerald.
It's extremely rare for an incoming president to sit down and talk about a criminal matter with a prosecutor. That's extremely rare, obviously a very, very important development.
And what we're told happened, though, behind closed doors is that Barack Obama when asked about Rod Blagojevich insisted that he had had no contact directly with Rod Blagojevich or his staff about any of the wrongdoing that was going on. And, number two, we learned that Rahm Emanuel, as well as Valerie Jarrett, two incoming senior White House aides, were also interviewed last week by the prosecutor.
But again they insisted that there was no wrongdoing and that, while they had some contact with various Blagojevich people, that they were not involved in any of these quid pro quos -- Erica.
HILL: Well, in terms of that contacts when it comes to Rahm Emanuel, who is named in the report as the staffer who had that direct contact with both the governor and the governor's chief of staff, one or two talks there, what exactly happened during the calls?
HENRY: Interesting, a little bit of a miscue for the Obama camp, but, again, nothing that suggests real wrongdoing, which is that we're told that Rahm Emanuel had a couple of calls with the governor directly. And in one of those calls, he actually raised the prospect of Valerie Jarrett, again this close Obama ally, being the one to be picked for the Senate seat to succeed Barack Obama in the Senate.
We're told later, though, that Rahm Emanuel found out -- and this was the miscue -- that Barack Obama himself had indicated to his aides he didn't want to give any preference to any one candidate. So, Rahm Emanuel sort of out on a limb there. He decided to pull back quickly, obviously, because the president-elect didn't want anyone to be favored or not favored.
And, in the end, as you know, Valerie Jarrett ended up accepting a senior White House job, so it was all sort of moot. So, again, it was sort of a miscue, but not a huge deal. And he also, Rahm Emanuel, had several conversations with Blagojevich's then chief of staff, but again it really didn't amount to much -- Erica.
HILL: OK. So, Ed, just to lay it on the line for us here, in the report, is there any mention of any knowledge from the Obama transition team, the Obama people, of any possible schemes the governor may have allegedly been cooking up?
HENRY: None.
And that's the key, that in all these conversations that Rahm Emanuel had, both with the governor for and his then chief of staff, there was never talk, according to this report, of a quid pro quo, anything for the governor to get anything of monetary value or anything else in exchange for a favored candidate picked for this Senate appointment.
But we should stress this is the account of the Obama team about the Obama team. So, it would be highly surprising if they were to come out and say, yes, there was a lot of wrongdoing. So, this is not the final word. The final word will come from Patrick Fitzgerald, the prosecutor in this case.
But we have to stress that his had no indication of wrongdoing by the president-elect or anyone in his inner circle. So I think this is less about criminal jeopardy and more about political jeopardy, exposure politically because all of this sort of unseemly world of Chicago politics doesn't square well with Barack Obama's message of change, perhaps.
HILL: Right.
HENRY: But there's no evidence of actual wrongdoing, especially not criminal wrongdoing, Erica.
HILL: All right, Ed Henry, thanks.
Want to get now some more opinions from all points on the political spectrum on this, bringing in our NO BIAS, NO BULL political panel tonight, CNN political analyst Roland Martin, CNN contributor Stephen Hayes, who is a senior writer with the conservative-leaning "Weekly Standard," and Michael Crowley, who is a senior editor with the liberal-leaning "New Republic."
Gentlemen, good to have you all here.
Stephen, I want to start with you.
As Ed just mentioned, no real surprise here that the report from the Obama team would basically exonerate the Obama team. Is there anything in this report, though, that does raise a question for you?
STEPHEN HAYES, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think there are a couple things.
And, remember, this comes from somebody who thinks that, in all likelihood, the Obama team had nothing to do with the kind of shenanigans that Rod Blagojevich was involved in.
But I think there are a couple inconsistencies. And what this report, internal report, should have done is answer all the questions. I think it actually raised a few new ones.
First actually came in Ed Henry's report. Ed reported just now that what you have essentially was Rahm Emanuel talking to Rod Blagojevich, saying that Valerie Jarrett was a top candidate for the job, and then remembering or learning from Barack Obama that that wasn't the case, calling back and correcting himself. Well, that's actually coming from Ed's good reporting, not from what Greg Craig said on the conference call. What Greg Craig said on the conference call was that Rahm Emanuel went to Blagojevich, talked about Valerie Jarrett as a favored candidate, and couldn't remember whether he had had one or two phone calls.
So, I think there's an important difference. And the second I think inconsistency also concerns the Rahm Emanuel conversations. Did he actually go to Rod Blagojevich and have a conversation saying, look, the president-elect wants Valerie Jarrett to have this Senate seat, without first checking that with the president-elect?
Again, I'm not suggesting that there are any real shenanigans here, but it seems highly unlikely to me -- or at least odd -- that he would have spoken on behalf of the president-elect on an issue of such import without actually first talking to the president-elect.
HILL: Mike.
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: But, Erica, a lot of people, a lot of folks, a number of reporters, were making assumptions that Jarrett was at the top of the list.
If you talked to folks at "The Tribune," "Sun-Times," local television stations, all kind of people were saying hey, here's somebody that we are hearing expressing interest.
The reality is, Obama never said himself that, hey, I want you to do it. She did have conversations with the president-elect the week before the election regarding the job, but it wasn't until later when he said, no, I want you at my side in the White House.
There were other people in Illinois who were pushing her for the job. And, so, the public speculation was that she was the preferred candidate, when in fact she wasn't.
HILL: All right, well, a lot of speculation, as we know, especially surrounding this report.
Michael, I do want to ask you quickly, before we move on to another topic, the fact that the president-elect and other members of his team actually spoke with U.S. attorneys, does that taint at all the administration just as they're about to take over?
MICHAEL CROWLEY, SENIOR EDITOR, "THE NEW REPUBLIC": Look, it's not ideal. You don't want to be coming into the White House, meeting with prosecutors, talking to them about a criminal investigation.
The reality, I think, practically speaking, is that we're headed into the holidays. We're going to come back in January. Obama's inauguration is going to be a world historical event, and we're going to start talking about saving the economy, a huge stimulus package, Afghanistan.
I just don't see this really tainting the presidency in a lasting way, particularly because even if you listen to Steve's breakdown of what we heard today, what is the worst that happened? So, Rahm Emanuel maybe freelanced a little bit and was Valerie Jarrett.
Even if you buy the worst interpretation of this, it's really pretty small-bore. The idea that Obama comes out looking as good as he does here, it's like going to the Red Light District in Amsterdam and catching a movie or going to Bourbon Street and coming home sober.
(LAUGHTER)
CROWLEY: He was mixed up with this guy who was nothing but trouble, and came out with these really ticky -- the worst you can come up with is ticky-tack accusations.
HILL: Some very colorful examples there.
MARTIN: Bourbon Street. All right.
HILL: I have to get to this question real quickly. I don't think we have time to listen to the sound, but Joe Biden last night telling Larry King he's really worried about the sky-high expectations around the world for Barack Obama, in fact, particularly concerned about that impact of that abroad.
Is this well-founded, this concern, Roland?
MARTIN: Yes, it is, but not only is it abroad, but also here in the U.S., so many people who have their own ideas of what a presidency would mean with Obama.
What Biden is something, which is what the president-elect has been doing, is knocking down expectations. They have been saying, look, take it slow. Don't think we're going to solve every single problem.
It's smart to knock down expectations.
HILL: All right, I have 20 seconds to split between the two of you.
Michael?
CROWLEY: Look, expectations are probably too high, but when he first comes in, we're going to close Guantanamo. There's going to be a breath of fresh air. It's going to get a lot harder when he starts trying to fix Afghanistan and Iraq, which could be quagmires.
HILL: Because Guantanamo will be so easy to shut down.
(LAUGHTER)
CROWLEY: Well, but, symbolically -- you're right, but, symbolically, there will be that initial wave of goodwill.
HILL: OK.
And, Stephen, last word for you. HAYES: Yes. When you run promising to heal the planet and change the world, you're going to have high expectations. I think that he has them, and he deserves them, and he will have to deal with them.
HILL: Is he setting himself up for disaster in any way?
HAYES: I don't think disaster, but there will be -- it's unlikely that he's going to be able to reach those expectations that he's setting, particularly I think in relationship with Europe. So, I think he could have created problems in the campaign.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Well, then again, high expectations, Erica, is better than low expectations. We have seen that lately, haven't we?
HILL: Well, it's something that I have a feeling we will all be dishing about in the new year.
Roland, Steve, and Michael, thank you all.
Coming up: today's most incredible pictures. See how a broken water main turned a morning commute into a terrifying struggle for survival. Just take a listen to this one cry for help.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
OPERATOR: How many people are in your car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's just me.
OPERATOR: Just you. OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
OPERATOR: And you can't get out of your vehicle?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I can't. The water's going to -- it's drop (INAUDIBLE)
OPERATOR: OK. How high is the water in your car, ma'am? Where is the water to now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's getting all over my car. Please.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: Now talking good deeds by the president and the good book for next month's inauguration, all of that tonight in our "PDB," the "Political Daily Briefing."
Randy Key -- Kaye -- your name is Kaye by the way. So sorry.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: Randi Kaye here with the details.
Wow.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You were very excited about this "PDB."
HILL: I was so excited that I just couldn't say your name correctly. I'm sorry.
KAYE: It's all right.
(LAUGHTER)
KAYE: So, what should we start with?
HILL: How about the good deeds, if you will?
KAYE: OK, the pardons maybe...
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: A few pardons coming out today.
KAYE: The president, yes, pardoned 19. President Bush pardoned 19 and commuted the sentence of one before leaving for the holidays today.
Among those pardoned, a man who has died, but once help ship arms and aircraft of Jews trying to found their own state in the Middle East after World War II. More pardons are expected before Bush leaves office. And the question is, will Scooter Libby or maybe John Walker Lindh be on the list? We will see.
HILL: I'm guessing no. I'm going to out on a limb there.
(CROSSTALK)
KAYE: Probably not. But Bush has now pardoned 191, if you're counting, and commuted nine. That is less than half of Clinton and Reagan.
HILL: All right, moving a little bit further north, Minnesota, we have to check in, sort of the daily check on the Senate.
KAYE: The Senate race there.
HILL: The Senate race there.
KAYE: Yes.
If it wasn't so cold in Minnesota, it would actually probably feel a lot like Florida because of what's happening there. Same day that the state canvassing board announced that Norm Coleman is now losing to his Democratic challenger by 47 votes, Coleman told a reporter from a Minneapolis TV station that he is still confident he will win, but also says he's not too worried about it.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. NORM COLEMAN (R), MINNESOTA: I'm not really agonizing about the outcome. You know, life goes on regardless of what your job is. I certainly love what I do. If I can keep doing it, I will be thrilled. And if not then, I'm sure we will do something else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAYE: He used to be mayor there in Saint Paul. So, hey, you never know.
Meanwhile, the canvassing board also said today that, despite the current 47-vote difference in the race, a winner will not be declared until after the new year, maybe not even until all other senators are sworn in. And really unbelievable what is happening there.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: It is amazing how close the numbers are.
KAYE: Yes.
HILL: All right, finally tonight, let's get a little update on the inauguration. We're learning a little bit more about the details.
KAYE: Yes, we're learning a lot more about the big day. While presidents are not required constitutionally to be sworn in on a Bible, most actually are. Many presidents have chosen to use George Washington's Bible, among them, George Bush Sr., Dwight Eisenhower and Warren Harding.
Bill Clinton, he went a little bit of a different way. He was sworn in on his grandmother's Bible. But until now, no president has been sworn in on Lincoln's Bible, except Lincoln, of course, in 1861.
It is currently part of the collection of the Library of Congress. Another Obama nod to Lincoln this inauguration, Obama plans to take the same train route to the inauguration that Lincoln did from Illinois to Washington, and then end up at the Lincoln Memorial.
So, he's going to be sworn in on Lincoln's Bible and take the same route as well.
HILL: How about that?
KAYE: Yes.
HILL: Randi, thanks.
KAYE: Sure.
HILL: Randi Kaye, not Randi Key. KAYE: There you go. I will be back, so you get to say it again.
HILL: Perfect. I will try again. I will get it that time.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: Much more ahead, including more from Randi. A workplace story with a happy ending also for you, you don't hear many of those these days, so we couldn't resist.
Plus, an amazing rescue story, also with a happy ending, but I have to tell you it was really touch and go here for a while.
And guess who's going to be a dad again? Here's a hint. He won a little race called the Tour de France seven times.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: You are looking here at a rather unhappy ending, auto workers protesting the closing of this General Motors plant in Ohio. The plant actually closed today, after 27 years -- 1,080 people lost their jobs there.
But we can tell you, and just in time for Christmas, there is a story of the current U.S. economy that actually has a happy ending, for a change.
Consider this a gift that turns around the old expression, that's the way the cookie crumbles.
John King now with the story of one town in Ohio, a bakery, and a good many jobs that tonight have been saved.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Oatmeal cookies fresh from the oven, 20,000 pounds worth in a 10-hour shift, chocolate chip in this line, a bakery shuttered just days ago now bustling, with 60 eager employees who had expected Christmas on the unemployment rolls.
Kathy Sexton had told her children it would be a very modest holiday.
KATHY SEXTON, LANCE EMPLOYEE: They understood. They said, that's all right, mom. You always want to give them more, but I didn't think I would be able to.
KING: Like many small towns, Ashland is struggling. And things have been especially bleak since Archway Cookies was abruptly closed in early October by the private equity firm that owned it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... that shutting down the operation was the only course left to take.
KING: Then the Lance snack company bought Archway at a bankruptcy option. Last week, sixty workers were asked to return immediately, hopefully the rest in the months ahead.
TERRY MOWRY, LANCE EMPLOYEE: It's hard to describe. I mean, you just saw life being breathed right back into the face of these people.
KING: Terry Mowry in the first wave, as is Rita Divan.
RITA DEVAN, LANCE EMPLOYEE: I walked in the garage last night. My husband said, you actually smell like a cookie again.
(LAUGHTER)
DEVAN: He said, boy, I missed that smell.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They don't know any more answers than what Jenny (ph) knows.
KING: Two months ago, workers felt betrayed by bosses who at first said there would be more work in a day or two, then changed the locks.
DEVAN: They were just -- kept taking and taking and taking, until there was nothing more to take. And they didn't care that they were putting 300 people out of work at the time.
KING: Things are very different now. When it promised to reopen the bakery, Lance handed all employees an early Christmas gift, a $1,500 prepaid debit card.
DEVAN: I was crying.
I'm like, pinch me, pinch me. And then it just kept getting better. You're getting your seniority. I'm like, and they're going to get your card tonight.
I'm like what are these people doing? They don't know me. They don't know us. They didn't know any of the Archway people, and they're giving each and every one of us $1,500?
KATHY SEXTON, LANCE EMPLOYER: It's awesome. My first thought was I can give my kids a Christmas.
KING: Lance CEO, David Singer, says the gift cards were a way of letting Ashland know the new owners are different.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We wouldn't do it willy-nilly. We do want to make money, but this is the poor folks that we intend to hire and we just wanted to let them know who we were. It's great to see these folks come back to work. We're proud of what we've been able to do.
KING: These are Lance cookies sold to big chains like Target and Wal-Mart. But Archway production will resume soon and the new owners say if the new orders keep flowing in, more jobs will follow.
John King, CNN, Ashland, Ohio.
(END VIDEOTAPE) ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Still to come, hard times actually forcing more women to give up parts of themselves. Human eggs of the open market.
And a spectacular water main break with an equally spectacular rescue.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: This year we saw one of the most incredible elections in U.S. history. On Friday, a special edition of "NO BIAS, NO BULL" examines the flashpoints, the critical moves, the counter moves that led to winning and losing of the White House.
As Campbell Brown shows us, some of the best laid plans didn't always pan out.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The McCain camp felt that Barack Obama was really never qualified to be president of the United States. They didn't think he was ready for prime time and it was very frustrating for them all along, to be able to try and convince Americans about this, but yet, that message wasn't really getting them anywhere.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: He doesn't understand the situation in Iraq. He doesn't get it. This is now the 872nd day since Senator Obama went to Iraq, once.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Some concluded McCain actually forced Obama's next move. It was the next flash point. In mid-July, Obama took off on a high-stakes overseas tour.
He started a whirlwind week in Kuwait, sinking three-pointers for U.S. troops. Then came Afghanistan, Iraq, Jordan, Israel, then Europe and his Berlin speech in front of some 200,000 people.
HILARY ROSEN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think there was, you know, some Democrats that were a little nervous that Obama was going to Europe with as much fanfare as he did.
BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT: We've made our share of mistakes and there are times when our actions around the world have not lived up to our best intentions. But I also know how much I love America. I know that for more than two centuries we have strived at great cost and great sacrifice to form a more perfect union, to seek with other nations a more hopeful world.
PAUL BEGALA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I love the speech in Berlin. It was great. It was a little airy fairy, OK. I'm a more practical guy. But the notion of 100,000, 200,000 foreigners out in the street and chanting "We love America" not "death to America" was a wonderful thing.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): I think the speech in Berlin when you look back on it was something that they gave McCain an opening and he took it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NARRATOR: He's the biggest celebrity in the world.
CROWD: Obama! Obama!
NARRATOR: But is he ready to lead?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HILL: For more, watch our "NO BIAS, NO BULL" special "Flashpoint: How the White House was Won and Lost." That's this Friday at our usual time 8:00 p.m. Eastern only on CNN.
In these desperate economic times, younger women are making big bucks by donating their eggs to infertile couples. It is completely legal although critics call it unethical and even dangerous. Up next a "NO BIAS, NO BULL" look.
Also ahead, this is River Road, except it normally doesn't look like a river. Stand by to hear from one of these terrified drivers caught in that water.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: Couples who want a family but can't have children on their own would give just about anything for that opportunity. In this troubled economy, more fertile women are seizing on that opportunity for a price.
Randi Kaye has been looking at some of the personal stories and questions involved in human egg donations. We should point out that it's been around for a little while. It's gaining momentum.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. It's certainly is. Men, as you know, have been donating sperm for decades and getting paid for it. But more and more women are actually catching on and they are really cashing in. Even though there are risks, those donating their eggs say it is worth it when you need the money.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KAYE (voice-over): The ads are everywhere, college newspapers and Craigslist.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would love to give somebody a chance to have a child. I'm also looking to pay part of my way through school.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Compensation for surrogacy would allow me to stay home full time, which otherwise would not be an option.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am a medical student, musician and am quite athletic. I am charging a significant fee. KAYE (on camera): That is how thousands of women in today's tough economy earn extra cash and lots of it. They're donating their eggs. It pays as much as $10,000. Women willing to carry a baby as a surrogate mom can rake in even more, $30,000 in some cases.
(voice-over): At 26, Courtney Smith has lots of bills to pay. She's a wine steward at a high-end Manhattan restaurant, but says the economy is hurting business, and as a result her bank account. She's already cut back on eating out and cab rides. She'd get a second job but she doesn't have the energy or the time, so she plans to donate her eggs. She first did it two years ago when money got tight.
(on camera): So how much were you paid when you donated your eggs?
COURTNEY SMITH, EGG DONOR: I was paid $7,000.
KAYE: And how does that feel?
SMITH: It felt -- it felt good. I mean, it feels good to have money and I paid off a student loan.
KAYE (voice-over): Courtney provided these baby pictures so recipients can see what their child might look like. Once matched, usually with a couple unable to have their own children, donors like Courtney take hormones for about two weeks to stimulate ovulation. A doctor then removes the eggs from the donor's ovaries. The recipient gets the eggs to fertilize them. The donor gets the money.
Debora Spar, author of "The Baby Business," says she'd never let her daughter donate.
DEBORA SPAR, AUTHOR, "THE BABY BUSINESS": I worry that women are deciding to sell their eggs too quickly, that they're being perhaps overly driven by financial concerns here.
KAYE: Spar is concerned about the women's health. Ovaries can be overstimulated which she says can be dangerous.
SPAR: It is one woman giving birth to a child who is genetically the child of another woman. It is sale of our most intimate products.
KAYE: Courtney says sharing her DNA doesn't bother her. She has no emotional connection to her eggs, she says, and she doesn't think she'll have any regrets knowing a child that's a part of her who she'll never meet is out there.
Kathy Bernardo started a donor agency in Manhattan.
KATHY BERNARDO, N.E. ASSISTED FERTILITY GROUP: I don't want people to lose sight. This is a treatment for infertility. Infertility is a disease and this is one of the most effective treatments there are.
KAYE: Courtney was recently anonymously matched with a recipient who will pay her $8,000. The maximum recommended by the American Society for Reproductive Medicine is $10,000, though some recipients place private ads like this one offering much more.
Bernardo says the number of donor applicants at her agency has doubled in recent months.
BERNARDO: As the news has gotten worse and worse, the interest in egg donation has increased.
KAYE: What gets somebody picked?
BERNARDO: Attractiveness is number one. That you have to be attractive and it's a beauty contest to a certain degree. But also education, high test scores, ability in music and sports and things like that.
KAYE: Most women say the money is secondary, that it's really about helping others. Courtney says those women are kidding themselves.
(on camera): Would you donate your eggs if you weren't getting paid for them?
SMITH: Personally, I don't think that I would if it was for a stranger.
KAYE (voice-over): Most women who donate are under 30, when their eggs are healthiest. They can donate every three months, but no more than six times all together. Courtney will keep doing it as long as she needs the money, but she does plan to save some eggs to have her own child one day.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAYE: Now there are plenty of critics who say this is so wrong, that women should not be selling their eggs. But the women we spoke with say they are actually not selling their eggs. They are not being paid for the eggs themselves. They say they are getting paid for their time and their effort going to doctor's appointments, et cetera.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: She's very (INAUDIBLE) just looking at it.
KAYE: Absolutely.
HILL: One thing that really struck me here is when they mentioned in the piece that women who are pretty or who are athletic are really the ones who they prefer.
KAYE: Right. And you see these ads being placed by some of these potential recipients. They're looking for somebody who's blond, a good athlete, maybe somebody who's six feet tall, even a certain religion. So critics have said that maybe they're trying to build a baby which a lot of people have disagreed with, like Courtney, the donor that we interviewed. She says that she would love to be able to do that one day, actually build a baby, if you want to call it that.
HILL: Wow.
KAYE: She has no problem with a recipient picking certain characteristics in a child or in an egg that they're going to be paying for.
HILL: Right. Although I guess a lot of people who go to get sperm actually pick some of those same things. They actually look through books (ph).
KAYE: Exactly. It's the same thing although the women are making a lot more money than the men.
HILL: They are. A little more time consuming and difficult.
KAYE: Absolutely.
HILL: We'll leave it at that. Randi, thanks.
Imagine getting in the car, going to work and suddenly a wall of water is surrounding you. Today that's exactly what happened on one Maryland street. We'll show you what some of the victims did to save themselves.
And will Mother Nature give the gift of relief from this bitter cold snap? Please say yes. We have your up to the minute holiday forecast.
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HILL: Just ahead, how much privacy should the Obama girls get? They've taken the stage more than once, but are they too young to be considered public figures?
First, though, Ted Rowlands joining us with "The Briefing." Hi, Ted.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Erica. Incredible rescues, one after another in a Washington, D.C. suburb this morning.
A water main break sent a four-foot wall of icy water rushing down River Road in the town of Cabin John, Maryland. One driver wrote a note with her husband's cell phone number and held it up for the cameras. Firefighters needed boats and helicopters to rescue her and other stranded drivers. Listen to one frightened victim.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can't stand this thing! I need help!
OPERATOR: Ma'am, we're on our way. We will be there very shortly. I have units responding to you now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK (ph). I can't see anything!
(END VIDEO CLIP) ROWLANDS: Heavy rain is blamed for another mess in Tennessee where a dam broke sending murky water full of coal ash and mud surging into a dozen homes in the city of Kingston. One house was knocked off its foundation and into the street. The Tennessee Valley authority says it will be a very long cleanup.
A New York investor, a victim of the alleged Bernard Madoff Ponzi scheme has been found dead in his office. New York City's police commissioner says Thierry de la Villehuchet apparently killed himself. His firm has reported losing $1.5 billion it invested with Madoff.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COMMISSIONER RAY KELLY, NYPD: There was no suicide note. It appears that there were cuts made to his arm, to his wrist and also to his bicep area with a box cutter. There were pills present, unknown if those pills were ingested and there was no suicide note.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROWLANDS: Tonight Dallas police say a former Utah state trooper may be the gunman in last night's deadly rush hour shootings. This is 37-year-old Brian Smith who shot and gravely wounded himself this morning after a police standoff. Police say his bullet matched the kind used to kill a driver who was waiting for a traffic light. Two big rig truck drivers were shot and killed a short time later.
And Lance Armstrong, working on a cycling comeback, has something else to smile about. CNN has confirmed the seven-time Tour de France winner and testicular cancer survivor will be a father for the fourth time. He and girlfriend Anna Hansen are expecting their baby in June. Armstrong's foundation says they did not use artificial fertilization. His body apparently, Erica, healed itself.
HILL: A baby just in time for the next tour.
All right, Ted, thanks.
ROWLANDS: Yes.
HILL: At the dawn of the hour, Larry King sitting down with Joel and Victoria Osteen. That's "LARRY KING LIVE" and it is just minutes away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: The president-elect of the United States as you don't often see him -- bare-chested, flat stomach, very much on vacation there in Hawaii. It's certainly not the kind of photo you expect from the White House press corps.
These days the paparazzi are also following Obama, his wife, even his children. With super lens cameras that can find the places where other reporters would rather not go and probably couldn't get access to. This has started a large debate in our newsroom over the public's curiosity for all things Obama and just how much we should show you or tell you about the new first family.
So we want to start by going back to our senior White House correspondent Ed Henry who's traveling with the president-elect in Hawaii. And joining me here in the studio, "People" magazine staff editor, David Caplan.
Ed, I want to start with you, because the picture which really has been plastered everywhere today, all over newspapers, how was a photographer able to get that picture and what's the campaign say or the team, I should say, saying about it?
ED HENRY, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, what's interesting is that all the beaches here in Hawaii are public beaches so people -- anyone is allowed to walk up like here on Waikiki Beach. But in the case of where Barack Obama is staying at a private home along the beach, elsewhere here on the island of Oahu, there's a Secret Service checkpoint essentially, where they want to just check people out, make sure they just walk up to his front door basically for security reasons obviously.
But as you've mentioned with those extra long lenses that the paparazzi normally use for Britney Spears or Paris Hilton, they can walk up to that Secret Service checkpoint and get a picture from a couple hundred feet away. So that's what's at work here. No one really broke any rules.
I can tell you the reaction. I spoke to a very senior Obama adviser tonight who basically said that they kind of laughed off the pictures about his pecks frankly, because they're surprised that anyone really cares about how his chest looks or whether his stomach is flat or not.
What they were more concerned about frankly is that the same paparazzi photographer took some pictures of Malia and Sasha, the two Obama daughters. And they are very firm in wanting to draw what they call a zone of privacy around them for normal everyday things that young girls would do.
And so, the same photographer took some pictures of the girls. Those have not wound up on CNN or any other news organization as far as I can tell. So the Obama camp is splitting into two things saying we're glad people are not using the photos of the daughters.
HILL: Right.
HENRY: But frankly, they don't really care very much about the pecks.
HILL: In terms of those photos of the daughters, because this brings up a really important point. David, where do you draw the line on that?
DAVID CAPLAN, "PEOPLE" MAGAZINE: I mean, there's really few criteria. First of all, if the photographer broke a rule or trespassed and broke a lot to take the photo, if the photo is taken from really far away, which basically, if the subject say of Barack Obama wasn't near the -- you know, close enough to the camera, clearly he doesn't want to be photographed. So when photographers use really long lenses, that really borders on that bad taste.
HILL: What about his daughters though? Because as Ed just brought up there, there's so much concern within the Obama family and within the administration for their safety and their privacy?
CAPLAN: Absolutely. You know magazines like "People" definitely look at the security of children. If you look at celebrities that we cover, there are certain celebrities whose kids aren't out there and we really do abide by their desire for privacy. So any photos that show the kids that will endanger them, say, showing their routine for school, who their friends with, that is something that is a no no.
HILL: What about photos you mentioned that, you know, they're taken from too far away, that you may hold back from them? Is part of that a security concern? We've suddenly seen so many problems in L.A. with the paparazzi and what that can do to other people.
This is the president-elect of the United States, the soon to be leader of the free world. Is there a concern that certain photos you may have even published in the past maybe you should shy away from because that could hurt the president and potentially the world.
CAPLAN: Yes, absolutely. There's definitely a concern that when we look at these photos, that it's, you know, a security concern. You don't want, you know, some crazy person or just some whacko to get any ideas and know anything more that they should know about the president than it's already out there. And again with kids, it's even more paramount.
HILL: Ed, have you noticed at all because I know you've covered more than just the president-elect. You've covered other presidents. So have you noticed more paparazzi, even just, I know you mentioned the Secret Service are checking up on people, but are there more people around this president-elect than you've noticed with others?
HENRY: Certainly I would say comparing it to President Bush, there's certainly more of a buzz. You didn't hear about paparazzi sort of stalking, if you will, maybe that's too strong of a term, but chasing around or following President Bush at the ranch, for example.
I think there's obviously much more of an international buzz around Barack Obama because, number one, of the historic nature of his victory, first African-American U.S. president, of course. But then also this whole campaign, the whole celebrity aspect that John McCain frankly assailed.
You know, there's just more of a buzz around him that we have not seen with previous presidents, maybe since Bill Clinton, maybe since John F. Kennedy. But as you know, that can cut both ways. It can end up sort of having -- being a double-edged sword.
HILL: Right. And in terms of changes, I should say, when it comes to the rules, both the written and the non-written if you will, are the rules different this time with the Obama family? Have they laid down different rules even since the campaign trail especially when it comes to the privacy of their children?
HENRY: I can tell you there have been behind the scenes negotiations going on right now. And one Obama senior adviser I just got off the phone with was saying that they've been reaching out to various media organizations like CNN and others, and trying to find what I called before as sort of a zone of privacy, said there are certain times when the media, the press pool that follows the president everywhere may go with Barack Obama somewhere like school, like was mentioned earlier, but not really maybe use that video per se, if it's something that would reveal the routine that the daughters go through that could jeopardize their security, for example.
So yes, right now the Obama people are very actively trying to draw those lines. And I could tell you the media is very actively watching that and negotiating, going back and forth because it would be very careful to make sure that zone of privacy is not too wide, because the fact of the matter is that they are the incoming first family. There's not only a certain amount of interest in them, but there's a certain amount of public interest...
HILL: Right.
HENRY: ... in who they are and what they're doing that we need to access to them.
HILL: And a certain amount of expectation, too, let's be honest. It is a delicate dance, one we'll continue to cover.
Ed Henry, David Caplan, thank you both.
Crunch time right now at the airport. Will the weather cooperate with your plans to get home for the holidays? Stand by for the latest forecast with meteorologist Chad Myers in our severe weather center.
Of course, we should point out Christmas is not the only holiday this week. I'm not even talking about Hanukkah here. I hope you didn't forget today's celebration, and if you did, frankly, shame on you, especially all of you "Seinfeld" fans. Stay tuned for a little reminder. It's tonight's "Bull's-Eye."
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HILL: It was the night before the night before Christmas and all across the country. Millions of travelers are scurrying, but should they be worrying?
Chad Myers in the severe weather center for us tonight. All right, Chad, what's it looking like?
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Well, it gets better from here, the real bad part for tomorrow morning is going to be the capital district down to Binghamton and the Poconos. There will be an ice event briefly in the morning. So don't leave at 8:00 because there'll be ice there. But by 10:00, it will be 40 degrees.
Rain showers all the way to Indianapolis. It was icy there earlier. That ice is now gone.
Airports are OK except for Chicago where it's been snowing all day long. And so you're two to three hours behind there. There's still a lot of planes in the air, over 4,000 in America, and they're trying to get you there on time, but not all of them can make it. They'll try.
HILL: As long as they try. Keep our fingers crossed. Chad, thanks.
MYERS: You're welcome.
HILL: Tonight's "Bull's-Eye" goes to all of the "Seinfeld" fans in the "NO BIAS, NO BULL"'s staff for reminding us that today, December 23rd, is Festivus --
ALL: For the rest of us.
HILL: Thank you. It showed up on most people's radar screens after this 1997 "Seinfeld" episode. Remember?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
"FRANK COSTANZA", PLAYED BY JERRY STILLER: Many Christmases ago I went to buy a dog for my son. I reach for the last one they had. But so did another man. As I rained blows upon him, I realized there had to be another way.
"COSMO KRAMER", PLAYED BY MICHAEL RICHARDS: What happened to the dog?
COSTANZA: It was destroyed. But out of that, a new holiday was born, a Festivus for the rest of us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: Mr. Costanza, thank you. The Festivus rules involve three things. The pole instead of a tree, feat of strength by wrestling and, of course, the airing of grievances. Here's ours -- we're out of time.
Have a great holiday.
