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Campbell Brown
Tom Daschle Under Fire; First Lady Speaks Out on Education
Aired February 02, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Word just coming in tonight, the White House is set to announce President Obama is choosing another Republican to join his Cabinet, fiscal conservative Senator Judd Gregg of New Hampshire is being tapped to be his commerce secretary nominee. Gregg will fill the spot New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson had to walk away from.
And more breaking news tonight -- another key member of the Obama administration has just been confirmed. Bullet point number one, attorney general-designate Eric Holder wins Senate approval on a 75-21 vote tonight.
But, along with this done deal, more uncertainty in the Cabinet, an apology and an appeal just hours ago from the man who wants to lead the White House battle over health care. Health and human services secretary nominee Tom Daschle came out of a closed-door meeting with his former Senate colleagues after admitting he should have paid a $120,000 tax debt a lot sooner.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM DASCHLE, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY NOMINEE: I would hope that my mistake could be viewed in the context of 30 years of public service.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Bullet point number two, recession? What recession? That seems to be the message at one of the big parties sponsored by a big bank at the Super Bowl. Some of the very companies expecting you to bail them out are still living high on the hog. It is dollars and nonsense.
And bullet point number three, the rest of us. As some Wall Streeters party at our expense, millions of Californians just took another blow to the gut from the financial mess. We're going to go there. And we will check in with CNN's Sean Callebs, who is getting a first-hand feel for what it's like to survive on food stamps.
And bullet point number four tonight: Michelle Obama visits the Department of Education, proudly calling herself a product of Chicago's public schools. She thanked department staffers, and she also warned them it's time to roll up their sleeves and get to work.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHELLE OBAMA, WIFE OF SENATOR BARACK OBAMA: The children of this country are counting on all of us. They're looking to us for direction. They're looking to us for that ray of hope. They're looking to us to help them figure out how to make it through.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: We're going to have much more from the first lady coming up.
But, first, as always, we're "Cutting Through The Bull."
All this week, we're taking aim at one word, one theme. It's something the president has promise, and we're holding him to it: transparency.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency.
Restoring transparency.
The lack of accountability and transparency.
Many of us have been disappointed with the absence of clarity, the lack of transparency.
And we will insist on unprecedented transparency, rigorous oversight, and clear accountability.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: If all of that is a lot more than an updated campaign slogan, the president might start by looking at his own Cabinet picks.
Both Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner and health and human secretary nominee Tom Daschle were delinquent in paying tens of thousands of dollars each in back taxes. I mean, that's more than some people earn in a year, let alone owe in back taxes. Neither man paid up in full until after they were approached to join the Obama administration.
I wonder how many Americans would avoid paying a six-figure tax bill until they were up for a new job. For that matter, how many people have owed more than $100,000 without the IRS coming to haul off anything that wasn't bolted down, like the car and driver Daschle forgot to pay for?
These are two critical positions in a brand-new presidency built on a vow of honesty.
Mr. President, your picks to help run the federal government don't have to be perfect, but is it too much to ask that they pay, like everyone else, to keep that same government functioning, and, more importantly, that they don't wait until everyone, including you, is watching?
And let's go now to the breaking news tonight.
As we told you a moment ago, the White House set to announce President Obama is choosing another Republican to join his Cabinet.
And senior White House correspondent Ed Henry is live at the White House with the very latest on this.
Ed, give us the details.
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Campbell, CNN has confirmed that it will be Judd Gregg -- officials here telling us to expect an announcement tomorrow here at the White House, obviously a Republican senator from New Hampshire, the significance being this will now be the third member of the Cabinet with ties to Republicans, of course, Robert Gates staying on from the Bush administration, Ray LaHood as transportation secretary, a former Republican congressman.
And the other significant part of this, of course, is what will happen in New Hampshire and in terms of the balance of power in the Senate? If Al Franken is sworn in, as Democrats expect, eventually, as the 59th Senate Democrat, you have a Democratic governor in New Hampshire.
And Democrats had hoped that maybe this would then, Judd Gregg's replacement, be the 60th Democrat. But Democratic officials are now telling us that they expect that Judd Gregg has worked out a deal with the Democratic governor so that he would appoint a Republican as a caretaker to replace Judd Gregg.
That means Democratic hopes of a 60th Senate Democrat would be dashed. They would only have 59. But they would be gaining Judd Gregg, and the Cabinet officials here he's very serious as a fiscal conservative and that's why the president wanted to bring him in with all of these economic and fiscal problems -- Campbell.
BROWN: All right, Ed Henry for us from the White House with the very latest on that -- Ed, we will see you again in a few minutes on another subject.
But we're moving on to our other big story of the day. Tonight, we're looking again at the Wall Street bailout beginning with a new series we're calling dollars and nonsense. Well, now that Citigroup is struggling, its retired chairman, Sandy Weill, is giving up his right to use one of the company's jets.
But before he did that, according to "The New York Post," Weill flew his family to Mexico on vacation to ring in the new year. This was just weeks after Citi took $45 billion in bailout money.
Over the weekend, President Obama again hammered away at Wall Street.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
B. OBAMA: Even as they petitioned for taxpayer assistance, Wall Street firms shamefully paid out nearly $20 billion in bonuses for 2008.
While I'm committed to doing what it takes to maintain the flow of credit, the American people will not excuse or tolerate such arrogance and greed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And the list of troubled companies still giving goodies to the boardroom just keeps growing.
And Tom Foreman has been collecting some not-so-super examples -- Tom.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Campbell, a Super Bowl bash down in Florida is coming under sharp fire from taxpayer watchdogs, who are furious that a prime sponsor of the event was one of the big firms that taxpayers are bailing out. The event was called the NFL Experience, a five-day celebration of all things football just outside the stadium in Tampa.
It was put together by the NFL, but sponsored by Bank of America, which, as you may recall, has been given 45 billion of your tax dollars just to stay afloat. That has critics throwing penalty flags.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It shows that the bank doesn't get it. They're out there sponsoring the Super Bowl, and they're not spending the taxpayers' money properly. There's no accountability. There's no transparency. And nobody knows if it's worthwhile.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOREMAN: Bank of America says, sure it's worthwhile. They expect to get $10 in new business for every $1 they spent. They say they collected about 14,000 checking and credit card applications from this event.
They also say they committed to this deal long ago, did not use bailout money for it. And they say they need new revenue coming in, so they can pay back taxpayers -- Campbell.
BROWN: But, Tom, do we know how much they spent on this? It seems like it's sort of impossible for taxpayers to know if the return on this investment was good unless we know what it costs.
FOREMAN: Yes, that's the problem, Campbell.
You talked about transparency earlier on. It's totally missing here. Neither Bank of America, nor the NFL, will tell us the price tag for this deal. We do know it was in addition to Bank of America's existing $10 million NFL sponsorship -- Campbell.
BROWN: And, Tom, this isn't the only deal that's getting looked at in Washington right now.
FOREMAN: Yes, sports deals in particular seem to be under fire.
Two congressmen are going after Citigroup. They want Citi's name off of the new home for the New York Mets set to open in the spring. Citi also got 45 billion bailout dollars, but three years ago signed a contract for the naming rights on the new stadium for $400 million.
Representative Dennis Kucinich says, at Citigroup, 50,000 people will lose their jobs, but they think putting their name on a stadium is a good idea. Well, apparently so, because both the Mets and Citigroup say, hey, it's a done deal -- Campbell.
BROWN: All right, Tom Foreman for us tonight -- Tom, thanks very much.
Coming up, Afghanistan, it was called the forgotten war. Now it is front and center on the president's radar. He heard new plans from his defense secretary today. We will tell you exactly what they were. We will talk with CNN's Michael Ware about that next.
Plus, this:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, it's 30 cents each. That's not that great, is it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Could you live on a food stamp budget, as so many are forced to these days?
Our Sean Callebs is doing it for a month.
A NO BIAS, NO BULL look at Americans fighting to make every penny count.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
B. OBAMA: There are still some differences between Democrats and Republicans on the Hill between the White House and some of the products that's been discussed on the Hill. But what we can't do is let very modest differences get in the way of the overall package moving forward swiftly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: President Obama uses his only public appearance today to push Congress one more time for quick action on his economic stimulus plan. The Senate is working on it this week.
The president had a late afternoon session with Democratic leaders. And senior White House correspondent Ed Henry has the very latest on that.
And, Ed, I know that meeting just broke up a few -- a little bit ago. Tell us what we know about how it went.
HENRY: Well, what is significant, Campbell, is that it went on a lot longer than expected. And Democrats had initially said they would come out to the microphones to talk to everyone afterward, and they did not.
That's sometimes a sign that the meeting didn't go so well. That happens around the White House. They don't come to the cameras because they don't want to talk about what happened.
I'm being told by senior Democratic aides, however, that everything went fine. They had some scheduling conflicts and they insist that it went well on behind closed doors and that they're still on track to get this legislation passed by mid-February and to the president's desk.
But I can tell you there are warning signs tonight that things are not going as smoothly. There are conservative Democrats like Ben Nelson of Nebraska raising questions about the spending in here. And they're joining Republicans in raising red flags. And I think that is why the White House is just a little bit more nervous tonight than they were maybe last week about the potential for some conservative Senate Democrats to not be on board -- Campbell.
BROWN: And, Ed, you know, the president today insisted the differences between the two sides can be worked out. He was very optimistic. But you listen to Republicans, and it doesn't sound like it's going to be that easy.
HENRY: That's right. They do not think there are small differences.
And when you listened to the Senate Republican leader, Mitch McConnell, said today, he not only do they want to strip out more of the spending provisions that they have been complaining about, but that they also want to add some new things, such as housing relief. They want to deal with the foreclosure crisis in here. The White House does not want to do it in this stimulus bill. They want to do it in separate legislation.
So, they are loggerheads on that, Campbell.
BROWN: Ed Henry for us one again from the White House tonight -- Ed, thanks.
HENRY: Thank you.
BROWN: This afternoon, the president also focused on another crisis, the growing chaos in Afghanistan.
"Newsweek"'s latest cover bluntly suggests Afghanistan may be President Obama's Vietnam.
And we want to bring in our longtime Baghdad correspondent, Michael Ware, who has also spent a lot of time on the ground in Afghanistan as well.
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I lived there a year, unfortunately, yes.
BROWN: And let me ask you about this. What we know is, today, Defense Secretary Robert Gates sat down with President Obama. It's been reported that they're going to spend 15,000 more troops into Afghanistan.
What does that mean on the ground?
WARE: Well, we're also looking at a grand total of 30,000 extra more troops -- or extra in Afghanistan.
Bottom line, in terms of the fight, yes, they will always be useful. But are they going to make that much of a difference? I would think not. If you ever seen the countryside down...
BROWN: Why. It's just too small a number?
WARE: Too small.
I mean, the Russians had 100-and-something thousand there, 130,000 there, and they couldn't control that country. President Obama has done a daring thing. He's hanging his foreign policy cap on success or failure in Afghanistan.
And Afghanistan is the graveyard of empires. The British couldn't do it. The Russians couldn't do it. And, in fact, the Russians were beaten by the exact same mechanism that is now working against America, Islamic militants harboring in Pakistan.
BROWN: So, what is the military's thinking? If 15,000 troops is a drop in the bucket, they just don't have anymore troops to send given what is going on in Iraq, I'm supposing. So, they're...
WARE: Well, I'm sure the war planners in a perfect world would be sending a lot more troops if they could.
But what we're also talking about a shift in tactic and strategy. I think we're seeing noises about a move away from all the -- all the onus or all the investment in Karzai, the president of Afghanistan.
BROWN: Right.
WARE: They're looking at other ways to spread America's interests.
But the bottom line by the special envoy, Richard Holbrooke, that President Obama has sent to the region, he has to cut a deal with Pakistan's intelligence agency, or you can send as many troops to Afghanistan as you like; it's not going to make a difference. BROWN: So, what do you make of "Newsweek"'s assessment of this, that it could ultimately be Obama's Vietnam?
WARE: Well, that's a very brave statement to make on "Newsweek"'s behalf. But I can certainly see their rationale.
President Obama, it's almost trite to say, is on a precipice. He's on the cusp of history here. And he's either going to make it very, very right or he can make it very, very wrong. These are very bold times for this new administration. And to go out and cut your teeth on Afghanistan is not an easy measure, Campbell.
BROWN: OK.
Before I let you go, let me ask you about Iraq, because over the weekend, the Iraqis went to the poll for provincial elections. We're waiting for the final tally, but observers are saying this looks very good for the prime minister, Maliki, a show of support for him generally.
What does that mean for President Obama's plans to try to draw down troop levels?
WARE: In terms of drawing down troop levels, I don't think it means very much at all.
Indeed, we're seeing reports about nervousness among the highest levels of U.S. military command trying to get President Obama to roll back the acceleration of his timetable for the withdraw.
Bottom line, we have just seen provincial elections in Iraq. Now, that's essentially state by state, voting for Iraqi versions of Arnold Schwarzenegger and local legislature. What we have seen is little violence, no violence.
But we can expect that probably for the rest of the year. Why? Because all the political factions, it's in no one's interests to go and start a fight right now.
They're rolling the political dice and waiting to see what they get. And if one of the most powerful factions lost out in these elections, as some of the polls indicate, the question is going to be, are they going to roll out their militias again? And if they don't do it now, will they do it later in the year?
It's not a time to be taking your -- your eye off Iraq.
BROWN: No, absolutely not. Michael Ware with us tonight -- always good to have you here in person.
WARE: Thanks, Campbell.
BROWN: All right, Michael, thanks.
Coming up: Banking on a tax refund? Well, not if you live in one state that's ready to issue IOUs to people, instead of checks. We're going to check in on one CNN correspondent also who is living on food stamps right now to try to explain to people and let you know what it is like. Could you get by this way? We will have a pretty dramatic look at what food stamp recipients have to spend and eat when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Hundreds of people camped out in Miami all weekend, waiting to fill out applications this morning for 35 jobs with the city's fire department. Miami firefighters earn about $46,000 a year, plus benefits.
Times are tough for most Americans right now. Macy's announced today it's cutting 7,000 jobs. "The Wall Street Journal" reports Morgan Stanley may cut up to 1,800 more jobs. But, for those at the very bottom of the economic ladder, it's not just a question of keeping a job or paying their bills. It's a question of feeding themselves and their kids.
A single adult on food stamps in the state of Louisiana can spend only about $6.25 a day for food. I mean, think about what you could get for that. To find out what it is actually like, our Sean Callebs in New Orleans is living without on $176 this month. And that is the most a single person can qualify for in food stamps.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Green beans are four for three.
CALLEBS (voice-over): You may not realize how much you spend at the grocery store until you're in dire straits. Thirty-one million Americans need food stamps to make ends meet. In Louisiana, for instance, one person out of six receives government help in keeping food on the table.
Louisiana officials know it's humbling.
SAMMY GUILLORY, LOUISIANA DEPARTMENT OF SOCIAL SERVICES: We have done everything we can to move that stigma. We don't feel there is such a stigma. In times of need, you just have to seek help.
CALLEBS: Here and in other states, food stamps have been replaced by the less obtrusive government debit card.
To better understand this life, I'm going to spend February living on the maximum amount one person can get for food stamps.
(on camera): Never have I had to pay so much attention to every single thing that goes in a basket. I have $176 to live on the entire month. That's all 28 days. Break that down, it's about $6.25 a day.
(voice-over): Arkesha Darrensburg (ph) and her three children depend on food stamps off and on. She says it's tough to make ends meet, but she's going to show me how to stretch a dollar.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have to squeeze in a lot of things. You can't get name-brand item. You have to get store-brand.
CALLEBS: The challenge is eating healthy and eating enough.
(on camera): There's 32 ounces here, and there's 16 here. I will get two of these.
So, it's 30 cents each. That's not that great, is it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What about -- do you eat mac and cheese?
CALLEBS: I guess I'm going to, big-time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's 89 cents.
CALLEBS: I like that. That's in my window.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You think you're getting a good deal, two for this, two for that. In reality, you're really not.
CALLEBS: Because it adds up quickly.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Slide your card now.
CALLEBS: Six dollars.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have $105.13 left.
CALLEBS (voice-over): That's right, just $105 and change for the rest of the month.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: That is Sean Callebs reporting for us from Louisiana tonight.
And, in California, another place where people are in dire straits, they're living without tax refunds -- a state in dire straits, rather. They're living without tax refunds. The state is so short on cash that, today, it began holding up some $2 billion in state income tax refunds.
Well, that creates an obvious problem, no tax refunds, no spending, no revenues, no recovery.
Dan Simon is in San Francisco for the latest on this angle of the story.
And, Dan, what happens now?
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Campbell, it's ironic. Here, you have Washington coming up with a stimulus bill. And in California, they have come up with what you might call an anti- stimulus measure. That's because, if you're entitled to a state refund here in California, you're not going to get it, at least for 30 days.
And this is affecting a lot of people, two million people who on average would be entitled to about $800 back. And who is this affecting? This is affecting people who need this money the most, people like Vanessa Kinney, who I spoke to earlier today in San Francisco. She's 25 years old, works in commercial real estate.
She was hoping to get that refund check this month, then got the bad news. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SIMON: What do you make of this situation?
VANESSA KINNEY, RESIDENT OF CALIFORNIA: It's really disappointing, because I have bills that I have to pay. Just bought a house, and I was expecting a refund in order to pay for the upgrades that I did to my house.
SIMON: And how much are you expecting?
KINNEY: Five hundred dollars,.
SIMON: And that's money you could really use right now?
KINNEY: Yes, it is.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SIMON: Now, the guy who made this decision is John Chiang. He is the state controller. And he says he did so, he's withholding this $2 billion, because he has to fund other aspects of state government.
But he acknowledged the inherent contradiction, the inherent catch-22. Here's what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN CHIANG, CALIFORNIA STATE CONTROLLER: That is especially not helpful, difficult economic times where families need the money to pay their bills, whether it's a rent bill, a mortgage bill, transportation or food. So, it's going to have a strong impact in all our communities across California.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And, so, Dan...
SIMON: So, California will start issuing -- yes, go ahead, Campbell.
BROWN: No. I was just going to say, I know, explain to people, if you can, sort of why California is in such bad financial shape.
SIMON: Well, the state is facing an unprecedented $42 billion deficit.
There are a couple of reasons for that, two chief reasons. You're talking about a huge amount of foreclosures here. California ranks number two in the country when it comes to foreclosures.
Also, the unemployment rate here, at 9.3 percent, two points higher than the national average. And that has meant a huge reduction in terms of state income taxes and sales taxes. And, already, the state has taken unprecedented action to deal with this.
You may have heard something about these furloughs. Well, starting this week, state workers, 235,000 state workers are going to have to take two days of unpaid leave each month. One practical effect that's going to have, longer lines at the DMV. Everybody hates going to the DMV to begin with. But, beginning on Friday, DMV offices will be closed every other Friday each month, Campbell.
BROWN: All right, Dan Simon for us from California tonight -- Dan, appreciate it.
Coming up, we keep learning new details about the California woman who had octuplets last week. Their grandmother is saying implanted embryos multiplied. We're going to ask our Dr. Sanjay Gupta how exactly that happens.
And then later, Michelle Obama today on one of her first official trips out of the White House and speaking out. We will tell you what her plans are as first lady.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIDGET COYNE, FOURTH-GRADER, NORTH STRATFIELD ELEMENTARY SCHOOL: Dear Mr. President, congratulations on being the 44th president of the USA.
How will we slow down global warming? Because it's already starting. Every I time hear of global warming, I feel worried. So, hat is our plan to slow it down?
Sincerely, Bridget K. Coyne.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Bridget sent us that letter from Fairfield, Connecticut, where she attends North Stratfield Elementary. And you can tell she's thinking about her future.
All over the country, kids are writing letters to President Obama. And we love seeing those letters. So, if you have a letter to send us, look for the ireport link on our Web site, CNN.com/Campbell.
They called themselves nobodies from nowhere, but, if you paid attention to the Super Bowl ads, you know them now.
Stick around and see.
But first, Gary Tuchman joins us with the briefing -- Gary.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Campbell.
We're just learning of a new food recall over the nationwide salmonella outbreak. Kellogg's is pulling some of its Keebler soft batch chocolate chunk and oatmeal raisin cookies, and its honey almond Special K protein bars. Kellogg's says it doesn't use ingredients recalled by the Peanut Corporation of America, but it did use an assembly line that may have been contaminated. You can find more details in Kellogg's Web site.
Life is getting worse for some victims of a severe winter storm in Kentucky. Thousands are going to shelters after running out of food and supplies. National Guard troops are going door-to-door to check on those left behind. Sixteen people have died statewide, and a quarter million remain without power. One mayor says it will take two months for the power in one county to come back.
The weather is also putting a chill in Europe. The worst snow to hit London in 18 years shut down the city's bus system and cancelled more than 600 flights at Heathrow Airport. In a city of seven million, there is not one snowplow. Snow also dusted Paris and much of northern France.
Another world leader is targeted with a flying shoe. China's prime minister, Wen Jiabao, was interrupted by a protestor during a speech at Cambridge University in England. The gray sneaker missed its target. Premier Wen continued speaking as police arrested the demonstrator.
And here's a question for you -- who owns a British warship that sank 265 years ago? A Florida-based exploration team believes it has found pieces of HMS Victory, including the cannons in an English channel where it went down in 1744.
The shipwreck may have four tons of gold coins onboard worth $1 billion. The exploration crew has asked the court for exclusive salvage rights. The British defense ministry argues that the monarchy still owns the ship and its cargo.
And Campbell, back in the days when I ruled the playground, we went by the adage, finders keepers, losers weepers.
BROWN: Absolutely, we'll see.
Up next -- Gary Tuchman for us with "The Briefing." Gary, thanks.
Up next, Michelle Obama on the job but what exactly is that job? We're going to hear what the new first lady said today when we come back.
Plus, who says public servants can't have style? The newest unofficial White House portrait in tonight's "Political Daily Briefing."
We're also learning more about the mother who gave birth to eight babies. And with every new detail, new questions and new concerns. Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta will have some answers for us coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
M. OBAMA: I am a product of your work. I wouldn't be here if it weren't for the public schools that nurtured me and helped me along. And I am committed as well as my husband to ensuring that more kids like us and kids around this country regardless of their race, their income, their status, the property values in their neighborhoods get an access to an outstanding education.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: A first for the first lady today. Michelle Obama's address at the Department of Education was her first major public event outside of the White House since inauguration day. And as she spoke, we listened for hints on how she'll define her role as first lady. Activist, advocate, adviser, or all of the above?
And Erica Hill is with me right now to talk about that. So did she give us any clues today?
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, in some ways it's the $64 million question, whatever the figure would be these days, that everybody was watching and listening so intently for any little clue. And the answer is whether or not she gave us some is kind of.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HILL (voice-over): Michelle Obama is slowly coming out as first lady. Today, one of her first public speaking events since the inauguration, she made it clear, this meet and greet at the Department of Education is just the beginning.
M. OBAMA: I'm going to spend the next several weeks or months however long it takes going from agency to agency just to say hello, to learn, to listen, to take information back where possible. But truthfully, my task here is to say thank you and roll up your sleeves because we have a lot of work to do.
HILL: But the big question, still unanswered two weeks in, is how that work involves Mrs. Obama.
M. OBAMA: What can I do that is useful? And with this role, how? I spend a lot of time focusing on working the challenges of work-family balance with women and families.
HILL: Her office tells CNN working parents will be one of three main projects for the first lady, along with helping military families and boosting volunteerism, though they're not offering any specifics. Fitting, perhaps, for the woman who has often reminded the country family is her top priority.
M. OBAMA: I joked that my first job is going to be mom-in-chief.
HILL: Originally, the president's wife was more of a hostess, overseeing state dinners and White House tours.
M. OBAMA: Walk around touching stuff. Just don't break anything.
HILL: But that role has evolved, and the public has come to expect more.
ROBERT THOMPSON, SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY: Being first lady in the United States of America in the 21st century has got to be one of the most frustrating jobs to hold because for one thing, it isn't even a job. For another thing, it has no job description. But for a third thing, you are constantly being evaluated as to how well you're doing.
HILL: Hillary Clinton's efforts to shape health care policy and her office in the West Wing didn't win her glowing reviews. For her part, Mrs. Obama has said she is taking some cues from Laura Bush. But there's no doubt she'll be walking a fine line.
THOMPSON: She can very, very credibly now approach a number of issues. Anything having to do with family, in many ways, women with regards to work and family, she is a living embodiment of many of the issues that have still yet to be worked out.
HILL: Experience she'll need to handle all of those expectations.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HILL: As Tom (ph) had mentioned, one other point in her favor is that she's very approachable. She's actually seen as cool in a lot of circles, especially with young people. And Campbell, that could actually help further some of her initiatives when she decides how to handle them because she may have a larger audience to listen to her.
BROWN: You know, on the campaign trail, not everybody was in love with her. I mean, she said some very controversial things early on and a lot of people reacted strongly to that. I mean, how does she do this outreach and sort of become the first lady for the country?
HILL: It's definitely a challenge and I asked Thompson about that, specifically thinking back to those days on the campaign trail. And the fact that, of course, the entire country did not vote for Barack Obama. And he said it's definitely something they're going to have to overcome. But he feels, at least in his mind, that there is more likeability, if you will, right now for the Obamas and that she could use that in her favor and again pull on those things, appealing to young people, being seen in some circles as cool to help win some people over.
BROWN: All right. Erica Hill for us tonight. It will be fun to watch. HILL: It will.
BROWN: Coming up, a revealing look at Barack Obama and his cabinet as you have never seen them before through the lens of legendary photographer, Annie Leibovitz. Stand by for more in tonight's "Political Daily Briefing."
And later, startling new details about the mother of six who just had octuplets. The baby's grandparents reveal how many babies their daughter really wanted and why she ended up with so many.
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JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: That I will bear -- excuse me -- that I will bear true faith --
HILLARY CLINTON, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: That I will bear true faith.
BIDEN: And allegiance to the same.
CLINTON: And allegiance to the same.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Oops, they did it again. Another swearing in, another bungled oath. But Hillary Clinton is officially secretary of state. She is expected to visit Japan, South Korea and China on her first trip as secretary, which could come as early as next week.
Tom Foreman back with more on today's ceremony in our "Political Daily Briefing." And Tom, what is it about these oaths?
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Something in the water here, I don't know?
Vice President Biden did fumble a little bit, but rest assured there will be no re-oath like President Obama had to take. Hillary Clinton was officially sworn in as secretary of state almost two weeks ago in a small private ceremony. Today was just a ceremonial public pledge.
Among those attending, actor Chevy Chase, appropriately, and designer Oscar de la Renta. Secretary Clinton thanked a lot of folks including her husband, former President Bill Clinton. Listen.
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CLINTON: I am so grateful to him for a lifetime of all kinds of experiences.
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FOREMAN: So, with the two oaths, she becomes the 67th and possibly 68th secretary of state, Campbell. Let's do the math on that.
BROWN: And Tom, speaking of swearing, the president made fun of his own re-oath taking, as well as other things at this weekend's annual Alfalfa dinner. Tell us about that.
FOREMAN: The Alfalfa dinner is private so we only have pictures of people showing up for this thing. It was started about a century ago by some southerners to honor Confederate General Robert E. Lee, an irony not lost on Mr. Obama who said if he were here with us tonight, the general would be 202 years old and very confused.
Another good line Obama had was about his new high-tech White House when he said, "In just the first few weeks I've had to engage in some of the toughest diplomacy of my life. And that was just to keep my BlackBerry." He also joked about how exclusive his list of e-mail pals is by telling everyone in the audience look at the person on your right, then the one on your left, none of you have my e-mail address.
BROWN: But I suppose, Tom, we can get some hint who is on that exclusive list by looking at the new photos in this new "Vanity Fair" magazine.
FOREMAN: Yes, we've been checking this out, Campbell. The pictures were taken by that same photog (ph) Annie Leibovitz. And they lay out all the big power players in Obama-land, 56 total with their BlackBerries, in some cases. These BlackBerry bearers are all part of President Obama's team.
Many, many people -- there you see Robert gates there along with Hillary Clinton. Big players in these. You also have seen some of the other pictures of some of his top aides who are involved in everything. These our big players up there, probably people who can get into his BlackBerry with no trouble at all.
One group is called his brain trust. Another one is called the people who sort of are his facilitators for everything. So it's quite a collection. They say it was quite hard to get all of these pictures because sometimes, Leibovitz only can get these people together for a couple of minutes because their schedules have been so busy. But "Vanity Fair" says you can take all the time you want to sort the whole thing out because it comes out next week.
You can look at the issue all you want to at that point, Campbell, and make sure you don't miss that Joe Biden centerfold because that's a good one.
BROWN: Really, I can't wait. Tom, what a tease. Tom Foreman for us tonight. Tom, thanks.
Tonight, we have some surprising new details about the octuplets born to a mother of six in California. The baby's grandmother says fewer than eight embryos were actually implanted and then they multiplied. We're going to ask our chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta about that and other rather bizarre facts of this case, when we come back.
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BROWN: Tonight, new details and new questions about the California mother of six who had octuplets a week ago. The six girls and two boys are doing fine.
In interviews with the "Los Angeles Times" and the "Associated Press," the babies' grandmother revealed that her daughter is 33 years old, she is divorced, and she had trouble conceiving. All 14 of her children are fathered by the same sperm donor who we are told is not her ex-husband.
Doctors implanted frozen embryos left over from her previous pregnancies. The woman's father says his daughter was not trying for eight more babies. Listen.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had six children. Why would she seek to have more children?
EDWARD SULEMAN, OCTUPLETS GRANDFATHER: She did not seek to have more children. She thought she's going to have one more child. Then it happened. So that's it, thank you very much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: The grandmother also says the mother had fewer than eight embryos implanted but that they multiplied and her daughter refused to abort any of the fetuses. Still, we should say, all this information coming from the grandparents. Still a lot of questions remain, so we want to bring in our chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta and Dr. Loren Wissner Greene, an endocrinologist and medical ethicist at New York University's Langone Medical Center, joining us as well from New York.
Sanjay, let me start with you on this. This woman's mother says her daughter had far fewer than eight embryos implanted, that they multiplied. What do you make of the explanation? I mean, is it possible?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, it is possible. And this is something that I think a lot of people don't recognize but it can happen. Certainly in the case of twins, when there's a natural pregnancy, an embryo can split and you get -- you get twins, identical twins.
It is less likely to happen in the situation of IVF, which, by the way, we now know this was definitely IVF. That has come up in the hospital. In about four to five percent of those cases, according to some of the doctors we spoke with, those implanted embryos can also split. So you can have fewer than eight embryos, they split overtime and they get even more pregnancies.
BROWN: But, I guess we do know that if eight embryos were in fact implanted in this woman, which she is saying they weren't, that they were fewer than that and they split, but had eight been implanted, that would have been well beyond the bounds of accepted medicine, right?
GUPTA: Yes. I mean, you know, so there are guidelines on this sort of thing, Campbell, exactly as you're alluding to. There's a society that sort of gives guidelines on how many embryos should be implanted based on a woman's age. As you get older, you're less likely to be able to carry those embryos all the way to birth.
So, for example, under the age of 35, they say two -- two embryos can be implanted. That's the guideline anyway. After that, closer to 40, you could implant more embryos but these are guidelines, are based on conversations between a patient and her physician. And you know a lot of times that's part of a larger discussion about the psychological health of the woman as well.
Just so we know we're talking about here, Campbell, if I can show you really quickly, when we talk about in vitro fertilization, you're talking -- we have a little animation here -- we're talking about having an egg or having an egg and giving one sperm and fertilizing that egg. And then subsequently, taking those fertilized eggs and implanting them into a woman's uterus.
A lot of people may know this, but I can show you is they actually thread a catheter through the cervix here, as you can see, and it goes up into the woman's uterus. And subsequently, in this case, you're going to see eight separate fertilized eggs come out.
Again, as you pointed out, we don't know for sure that there were eight necessarily. It is very unlikely in typical scenarios for all eight to actually implant and be carried all the way to birth. We don't know exactly what happened here, but that's sort of what would happen. That's what it looks like.
BROWN: And let me bring in Dr. Greene, you know, to talk about what Sanjay mentioned that there is a psychological aspect of this, you know, going on, what's going on with this woman and her doctor? The woman's mother told the "L.A. Times" that her daughter is in her words obsessed with children. And you know, some medical professionals are troubled by the fact that a woman who already has six kids is going for IVF treatments. Are there ethical issues here that she has to weigh with her doctor to try to strike some kind of balance?
DR. LOREN WISSNER GREENE, ENDOCRINOLOGIST & MEDICAL ETHICIST: I think there are ethical issues at every step of this game. I mean, even the way the story came out, that first American public was applauding this amazing development of eight children to now being turned around upside down. Does she have the right to have eight children after having six children formerly? I think people are questioning the whole story, and there are so many ethical issues in this story.
BROWN: Couldn't this doctor have refused to give her these treatments? I mean, is that something that's possible? If you come in and say, I have six kids, I want IVF, I want to have more.
GREENE: Well, we don't know the whole story still. We don't know what she told her doctor or what the doctor knew about her particular circumstances. We do know that in most of the academic IVF programs in this country there would be psychological interviews with the woman to see if this was an appropriate treatment for her.
BROWN: Right.
GREENE: What her expectations of this treatment were, whether she could go through the somewhat grueling experiences of going through the disappointments of in vitro fertilization which could happen too from this procedure.
BROWN: All right. As you said, many, many unanswered questions still. Dr. Greene, appreciate your time, and Sanjay, of course, as always. Thanks very much, guys.
GUPTA: Anytime. Thank you.
BROWN: Still ahead, two brothers from nowhere make it big at the Super Bowl and earn our "Bull's-Eye." And no, they're not players but you'll probably remember exactly what they did when we show you.
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BROWN: "LARRY KING LIVE" just minutes away now. He's got the judge who decided in the Anna Nicole Smith case, plus some special surprise guests.
Larry, give us details. We want them.
LARRY KING, CNN ANCHOR: Well, plus what you've been talking about, Campbell. The octuplets' uproar. Why does everybody think they know best for the mother who gave birth to eight babies last week? We're going to talk to one of the doctors who was there.
And a woman who has sextuplets of her own. It's Kate form "Jon & Kate Plus Eight."
And Judge Larry Seidlin, whom you just mentioned, he's here. What's he been doing since the fight over Anna Nicole's body? Plus, we got a surprise guest for him, Campbell, next on "LARRY KING LIVE." You're not going to believe this.
BROWN: All right. We'll be watching, Larry. We'll see you in a few minutes.
Coming up next, can you guess which of last night's Super Bowl commercials was the fan favorite. Its creators won a cool $1 million and what they did could change the way Super Bowl ads are made. The story next.
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BROWN: There were 52 commercials in the Super Bowl. One was the clear favorite and its creators, two brothers from Batesville, Indiana are in our "Bull's-Eye" tonight. Check it out.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's my crystal ball.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looks like a snow globe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, it's real. Here, watch. Free Doritos at the office today? I think that's a yes.
Free Doritos.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will I finally get that big promotion?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Promotion? Not in your future.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So here's the story behind that ad. Joe and Dave Herbert who call themselves two nobodies from nowhere dreamed it up. They shot it on a shoestring and beat out spots from dozens of big budget advertisers to win $1 million on "USA Today's" Super Bowl ad meter.
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DAVE HERBERT, CREATED DORITOS SUPER BOWL AD: One hundred dollars or so to buy five panes of glass to take five takes of the glass breaking. And really our biggest expense was buying our cast and crew food. We spent about $700 on that.
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BROWN: They made quite a profit and have made some Madison Avenue advertisers a little envious, you could say, mad men. Congratulations, guys.
That's it from us tonight. "LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.
