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Campbell Brown
New Details Emerge in New York Plane Crash; Economic Stimulus Bill Nears Final Passage
Aired February 13, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everybody.
Breaking news tonight: new clues from the fiery wreckage of Continental Flight 3407.
Bullet point number one tonight: We are starting to learn about the plane's final moments before the crash that killed all 49 on board and one man on the ground near Buffalo. Investigators say cockpit recordings revealed the pilot and co-pilot discussed -- quote -- "significant ice buildup on the windshield and wings."
The crew apparently tried to pull out of their landing approach just before the plane nosedived into a house. We're going to have the very latest from the crash site coming up in just a moment.
Bullet point number two tonight: a pain-taking process still going at this hour in the Senate. But it finally appears the stimulus plan will soon head to President Obama. The House approved it today 246-183, with no Republicans voting for it. President Obama gave a thumbs-up to the results as he and his family headed to Chicago. He's counting on the stimulus bill to be sitting on his desk when he returns to the White House come Monday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't need it tell you that we are in tough economic times. The challenges we face today, we have not seen in a very long time. Each of you and every American sees them in very specific ways. We've lot 3. 6 million jobs since this recession began, nearly 600,000 just last month.
Many of your businesses are under tremendous pressure with revenues falling and credit drying up. You're feeling directly or indirectly the reverberations of a financial crisis which has upended the economy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And bullet point number three tonight: autism vaccines and the emotional response from so many of you who took time to e-mail me last night and today. This is a very touchy subject, but one that we believe needs to be talked about, especially when it comes to separating myth from reality. And that's what why we're going to talk about it a lot more in "Cutting Through the Bull" a little bit later tonight. First, though, tonight's breaking news: a major clue, as we said, in the plane crash that killed 50 people near Buffalo, New York. A short time ago, government investigators said that the plane had a -- quote -- "significant ice buildup" on its wings and windshield just before it went down.
Continental Flight 3407 took off last night from New Jersey's Newark Liberty Airport. Sleet and snow were falling near Buffalo when the plane suddenly dove to the ground at 10:17 p.m. It hit a house about seven miles short of the airport.
For the very latest on the deadly crash, national correspondent Jason Carroll is joining us from the scene in Clarence Center, New York -- Jason.
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And good evening to you.
You know, Campbell, investigators have a lot of information to work with. They have two hours of conversation on the cockpit voice recorder. They are focusing on the last portion of the tape, where the crew discussed weather. They discussed visibility and ice.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL (voice-over): Early Friday, investigators from the National Transportation Safety Board recovered two clues that could help them answer the question of what caused the crash of Continental Flight 3407.
The plane's cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder were found in excellent condition, both discovered in the tail section of the turboprop, the only section of the plane remaining intact after it crashed into a home in Clarence Center, just outside Buffalo, New York.
The voice recorder shows, at 16,000 feet, the crew discussed problems with weather.
STEVE CHEALANDER, NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD: They noticed that it was rather hazy and they requested air traffic control to allow them to descend to 12,000 feet.
CARROLL: The plane then descended to 11,000 feet on approach to Buffalo Niagara International Airport, when the crew noticed another problem, ice.
CHEALANDER: The crew discussed significant ice buildup, ice on the windshield and leading edge of the wings.
CARROLL: According to the flight data recorder, the pilot activated the plane's de-icing mechanism. The plane then lowered the landing gear. That was about one minute before the end of the recording, despite the weather, no sign of distress on the Bombardier Dash 8 Q400 on approach., according to transmission from air traffic control.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Colgan 3407, approach.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Colgan 3407, Buffalo.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Colgan 3407 now approaching.
CARROLL: The plane disappeared from radar as traffic controllers call another plane to see if there's any sign of Flight 3407.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Delta 1998, look off your right side about five miles for a Dash 8. Should be 2,300. Do you see anything there?
CARROLL: The flight data recorder indicates the plane went through a series of severe pitches and rolled from side to side. The crew tried to raise the gear and wing flaps before crashing around 10:20 p.m. into this house, killing a man inside and all 49 people on board.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As I had gotten closer, you could start to smell the fire. It was really raging. It was a huge fire, and I could see nothing but the silhouettes of like 10-plus firefighters around it all trying to extinguish it, trying to get crowd control. And it was scary.
CARROLL: The plane was operated by Colgan Air and had been in service for just about a year.
PHILIP TRENARY, CEO, PINNACLE AIRLINES CORPORATION: The aircraft is a new airplane. It's what we call a next-generation turboprop, very, very modern. It's an aircraft that has had quality service. So, no, there are no indications of any problems with the aircraft.
CARROLL: As for what caused the crash, the NTSB says it's still too early in the investigation to know for sure.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL: And investigators on the ground from the NTSB are working with members of the FAA, as well as the medical examiner's office, to try and recover remains. But, again, Campbell, at this point, too early to tell the cause of the crash -- Campbell.
BROWN: All right, Jason Carroll for us tonight -- Jason, thanks.
And as Jason mentioned, there's a pretty incredible story of survival and loss from the home the plane hit. From the air today, you could barely make out there was a house there even. A family of three was inside. The husband died, but his wife and daughter were in different rooms. And, incredibly, both escaped with minor injuries.
The wife told her harrowing story to our Buffalo radio affiliate.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
KAREN WIELINSKI, PLANE CRASHED INTO HER HOME: I was in our family room, which is at the back of the house. And I heard a noise. The next thing I knew, the ceiling was on me. And I just -- I thought I -- I didn't know how much was on top of me. So, I was panicking a little, but trying to stay cool, and happened to notice a little light on the right of me.
So, I did -- I shouted first, in case anybody was out there, and then just kind of pushed what was on me, part of that, off, and crawled out the hole.
I had heard, like, you know, a woman crying. And I -- when I came out of the hole, you know, the back of the house was gone. The fire had started. I could see the wing of the plane. And Jill was over to the side, you know, crying, of course, hysterical.
Of course, she wanted to know where Doug was. And I didn't know. And I just told her that we had to get out of there. We had to get away from the fire.
It looked like the plane just came down in the middle of the house. And, unfortunately, that's where Doug was.
He was a good person, loved his family.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BROWN: Plenty of other people were nearby when the plane went down. They came running, some with their cameras, many sending their pictures and stories to CNN's I-Report.
And here now are the sights and sounds of this community coping in the minutes and hours after the loss of Flight 3407.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I heard it. I saw it. I was looking up in the sky. All of a sudden, this big (INAUDIBLE) I heard the plane. Crazy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I heard the noise and then, all of a sudden, I heard a pop.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I saw the plane coming from my right to my left, which is northeast, the exact opposite direction that the plane would have been going had it been going to the airport. So, I don't know if they were making a swing and just the swing never happened or what had happened. But it was heading the absolute opposite direction of the airport. The plane was nose-down, not as steep as being reported, but it was steep enough that it didn't look right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All of a sudden, I look up and I hear a plane about 150 feet above my head. And it sounded like a lawn mower was falling from the sky, best way to describe it. Next thing you know, I hear just a loud crash. And the sky lit up like the sun was rising.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our house shook. And, at that point, we ran outside, because we heard this low buzzing sound. We saw all these flames, everything just engulfed in flames. And they were getting higher. So, we ran out there and just some of the neighbors were out at that point.
Everybody was trying to call 911. My neighbors were. We were. We were trying to see if we could help pull anyone out. But there was no way. We couldn't even get close to the flame, because it kept going higher and higher.
At that point, I heard a woman screaming. I turned behind me because I heard a woman screaming: "That's my house. That's my house."
And I turned around and she was barefoot. And this couple behind her was holding her up, because she fell to the ground.
And, at that point, I was going to ask if she needed anything, but what happened was, I turned around because there was another explosion within the fire. And, so, I turned around and the fire kept growing bigger and bigger. The house was already demolished. There was no house there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm sure most of those firemen have all been trained for this day, hoping it never comes, just because of the proximity to the airport and the fire station. And I think their worst dreams came true -- or worst fears came true. And they had to go out and try to put out the fire.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All we could do was just stand there and pray and text people to just start praying and praying. We just sat there and waited and waited and watched. And nobody came.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Our Special Investigations Unit is looking into how this terrible crash could have happened. Our Drew Griffin will be here in just a moment. We're learning more about the people who were aboard the plane. One of them met President Obama just a week ago, and he talked about her today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: She was an inspiration to me and to so many others. And I pray that her family finds peace and comfort in the hard days ahead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Still ahead: the remarkable woman the president was talking about. She was the widow of a 9/11 victim.
Plus, I expected to hear from many of you after sharing our thoughts on autism and vaccines last night after a court ruling.
Stacy in Missouri took me to task, writing: "You can ask any of us parents, and we would rather our children have the mumps or measles any day over dealing with a lifelong disability. We are not going to stop until we are heard."
And you will be heard. We're going to continue giving this sensitive topic a NO BIAS, NO BULL examination -- coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We are learning much more tonight about the crash of Continental Connection Flight 3407, the plane that slammed into a home last night outside of Buffalo, New York, killing all 49 people aboard and one on the ground.
Late word from the National Transportation Safety Board that in the moments before the plane went down, the crew discussed significant ice buildup on the leading edge of the wings. But is that what doomed the plane?
Drew Griffin of CNN's Special Investigations Unit has been looking into all this for us.
And, Drew, tell us what you found.
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Campbell, the recovery of both data flight recorders is already bearing clues, like you mentioned. So is the weather data now being collected.
Specifically, they're looking at what altitudes was ice being reported and when did the crew find out that ice was beginning to build.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GRIFFIN (voice-over): As investigators now focus on icing on Flight 3407, Georgia Tech research scientist Jim Brooks says ice buildup on a wing can take control out of a pilot's hands.
JIM BROOKS, GEORGIA TECH UNIVERSITY: The air is no longer flowing over the airfoil as it was designed. It's disrupted.
GRIFFIN: It would build up slowly, a freezing-cold aluminum-skin aircraft suddenly flying into freezing rain and ice adhering first to the outer wings, then building.
With the wings becoming heavier, losing their aerodynamic shape due to ice buildup, the plane would begin to lose lift, literally sinking in midair as it slows down. A pilot might not feel it, not see it, but the plane would start to drop. When enough lift is lost, the plane stalls and is now out of control, rolling to the side where the wing ice is heaviest, then pitching into a dive.
This eyewitness describes just that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, it was pitched and it was headed -- it was headed down.
GRIFFIN: Brooks says, to recover from a stall, including an ice- inflicted stall, a pilot would push the nose down, dive, and regain air flow.
BROOKS: What you have got to do is get that airspeed back. Now, to get that airspeed back, what do you do? You lower that nose.
GRIFFIN: But, at lower altitudes, there's little room to maneuver.
There are two different de-icing systems on the Dash 8, electric heaters that heat air heading into the engine and along the leading edge of the plane's propellers, and a second system called boots that helps shed ice from the wing.
Aircraft investigator Tom Ellis, who works for a law firm that has sued over the issue, says the boots are really an archaic system, like a rubber balloon inflating and deflating to push and crack away building ice.
TOM ELLIS, AIR CRASH INVESTIGATOR: You're talking about an aircraft that's certified to carry up to 78 people that's using pneumatic de-icing boots and bladder technology from the 1930s.
GRIFFIN: In 1994, American Eagle flight 4184 crashed in Roselawn, Indiana. The finding? Ice built up beyond the reach of the de-ice boot -- 68 were killed.
And four years ago this week, Tricia Coffman's husband, Dave, was killed, along with seven others, when a Cessna Citation executive plane crashed near Pueblo, Colorado, in icing conditions.
TRICIA COFFMAN, HUSBAND DIED IN 2005 PLANE CRASH: And I had hoped that our accident would bring interest into icing, that it wouldn't happen again, that nobody else would feel that, because you want to feel like there was something significant that came from your loss.
GRIFFIN: Investigators blamed the crew for not properly activating the de-icing boots, blamed the system itself for not being automatic, and also blamed the Federal Aviation Administration's failure to establish adequate certification requirements for flight into icing conditions.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRIFFIN: And, Campbell, those requirements 15 years now in the making, would require ice-detection systems on new airplanes that automatically activate or alert pilots to activate ice-protection systems.
Why has the FAA taken 15 years? The FAA told us tonight it's near the final phases, but just not out yet -- Campbell.
BROWN: All right, Drew Griffin for us tonight -- Drew, thanks very much.
We're going to keep following the crash investigation during this hour. But we do want to get to another very important story. The president's economy recovery plan faces a critical Senate vote tonight. We're going to have the very latest.
And, then later, the ripple effects of the economic crisis, this time in Phoenix.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I try to explain it to them, this is very temporary. We're all doing what we need. I don't pay allowance anymore to my daughter. And she's reminding me that, hey, mom, we're not getting allowance.
And, like, we're not getting allowance either.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Making ends meet when you're unemployed.
Also ahead, the octuplets' mom back in the headlines. Hear what she says now about the babies.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Now the hard-fought battle for what President Obama hopes will finally mean a rescue for this economy.
The Senate, where voting is under way right now, is the last stop for the stimulus bill before the president's significant. The bill passed the House earlier this afternoon with no Republican support. Only three Republican senators support the bill, and just about everybody grumbling right now about the lack of bipartisanship.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: When we meet you halfway, don't give us the back of your hand and say it is not bipartisan. Don't say it has to be all our way or 90 percent our way before we will vote with you.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: This measure is not bipartisan. It contains much that is not stimulative and is nothing short, nothing short of generational theft.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Our senior congressional correspondent, Dana Bash, is on Capitol Hill tonight.
And, Dana, he got it through, certainly a win for the president, but not nearly the bipartisan vote he was hoping for, right?
DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Not at all. You remember the White House and Democratic leaders, they were hoping at the beginning of this process, they could get 70 to 80 votes, a big bipartisan vote.
And look what is happening right now on the Senate floor. Democrats are holding open a vote, so that the last Democratic senator can return from his mother's wake to give them the 60th and final vote just to scrape by to pass this. Now, obviously, there are politics at play here. But there really is a philosophical divide on this issue. It's just against GOP credo to pass what's really $500 billion, nearly half-a-trillion dollars, in government spending. Well, Democrats say, you know what? That's exactly what the economy needs, this kind of government spending, to rev it back up.
Now, I do think that in the future when you're talking about other issues, like climate change, for example, we probably will see some bipartisanship. But, on this issue, taxing and spending, especially with this unprecedented amount of money we're talking about, it's not happening.
BROWN: All right, Dana Bash for us tonight from Capitol Hill -- Dana, thanks.
BASH: Thank you.
BROWN: Seven hundred and eighty-seven billion, sounds like a lot of money, right? Well, that's because it is a lot of money.
The new administration says spending all of this is a gamble that is worth taking. But now that the battle's almost over, exactly how will all these dollars rescue the economy?
To break it down for us tonight, Tom Foreman joining us from Washington -- Tom.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Campbell, that really is the question here, isn't it?
The massive numbers in this bill make sorting it all out very, very difficult. But, if you look at it carefully, you can see that there are some real winners and loser in all of this. And if you start off, you have to look at state and local governments.
There will be well over $100 billion that will go to them that will be passed out in many different ways. It's hard to say how much because it's so woven into the bill, scattered throughout it. But it will flow to local governments and local communities in a wide range of ways.
We can split out some of the details, one of which is law enforcement. There will be about $4 billion that will go to state and local law enforcement, a windfall that will help them a good bit. If you're looking for a job, there will be about $4 billion that will go to employment services for training and helping people move into the work they lost. About 11 million Americans don't have jobs right now.
A lot of people wanted to focus on infrastructure, many lawmakers, because they feel like building things will get people to work fast. They wound up with more than $27 billion for highways, billions and billions more for bridges, airports, and other public projects.
And speaking of mass transit, things like that, if you talk about light-rail, about $8 billion for that in cities around the country. Mass transit goes beyond that. So, that was sort of a jackpot there.
The sciences, also some pretty good spending there, $1 billion for NASA, $3 billion for the National Science Foundation, a fair portion of that money destined for climate change studies. About $4.5 billion will go to making federal buildings go green, and another $19 billion for programs aimed at energy conservation. You add in some of the extras, it goes $24 billion and up.
And, of course, not everyone came up big in this whole process. It's worth thinking about that as we go through this. Look at what happened with schools. The Democrats really wanted a lot of money for this, especially for new school construction. Didn't get it.
There is some silver lining, however, for them. Almost $23 billion will go to disadvantaged and special-ed children, $15 billion for college Pell Grants for people with lower incomes.
And you have to think about the tax cuts, because that also is a big part of this entire equation. If we look at the tax cuts down here, you can see that people are going to get some breaks. If you are an individual who makes $57,000 or less, you're going to get $400. If you're a couple that makes $150,000 or less, you will get $800.
If you are a first-time homebuyer, you could get a nice break in all of this, and you meet those same income levels, you could get an $8,000 tax credit. You can even get some kind of help on buying a car, again, depending on your income level.
What's the point of all of this? The point of all of this is trying to get this money moving through all of these different sectors connecting, bouncing off each other in very complex ways and getting the whole economy going.
But figuring out how that will work is really tough, especially if you don't read the thing. And many people didn't.
But, Campbell, we have someone who did. Lisa Desjardins from CNN Radio sat up all night long. And you read this thing. What did you think of it?
LISA DESJARDINS, CNN RADIO: Well, I had a very slow browser and it was a very long night.
But people, when you hear about the congressmen who didn't read the bill, which, honestly, is probably most of them, a lot of people don't realize it's a very complicated piece of material. You don't just go page by page and figure out, oh, there's $4 billion for law enforcement.
It's in bits and chunks that you have to connect with strings. And having stayed up all night, by the time you hit 6:00 in the morning, I will tell you, those strings in my mind were rapidly disintegrating. And I knew, as congressmen were coming in for a vote, anyone that had stayed up all night, by the end of it, they were probably having trouble pointing it together, too.
FOREMAN: Hard to sort it out. Well, I read the first version. She read the last version.
So, Campbell, we have the worst book club in Washington right now.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: I'm proud to say I have read neither version and relying on both of you.
Tom and Lisa, thanks very much for us tonight. Appreciate it.
Republican resistance to the stimulus plan, can the White House kiss bipartisanship goodbye? Our political panel coming up with that.
And then the tragic story of the 9/11 widow who died in last night's plane crash. Hear what President Obama said about her today.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Before President Obama took his family to Chicago for the weekend, he made one last statement on the stimulus bill, promising the $787 billion package will bring the change America needs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: The goal at the heart of this plan is to create jobs, not just any jobs, but jobs doing the work America needs done, repairing our infrastructure, modernizing our schools and our hospitals, promoting the clean alternative energy sources that will help us finally declare our independence from foreign oil.
It's a plan that will put people to work building wind turbines and solar panels and fuel-efficient cars. We'll upgrade our schools creating 21st century classrooms and libraries and labs for millions of children across America.
We'll computerize our health care system at last to save billions of dollars and countless lives as we reduce medical errors. We'll lay down broadband Internet lines to connect rural schools and small businesses, so they can compete with their counterparts anywhere in the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So, that's how the president sees the stimulus.
As you heard, Republicans see it as a four-letter word, pork, and they didn't give it a whole lot of love on Capitol Hill today.
We're going to talk about that with our panel. CNN political analyst Roland Martin, Republican strategist Kevin Madden and CNN senior political analyst Jeffrey Toobin joining me right now.
Kevin, what's up with Republicans? No desire for compromise. What's going on? KEVIN MADDEN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, look, I think that compromise has to be a two-way street. The big problem here is that the White House and President Obama overpromised and underdelivered on bipartisanship.
They were very good about the pageantry. They were very good with the cosmetics of bipartisanship but when it came down to sitting with Republicans in a room and hammering out compromises on this bill, making sure that there wasn't big pork in there, that the money was going to go to creating jobs and stimulating economic growth, they failed. And the biggest gulf was between the White House and the congressional Democrats.
BROWN: So, Roland, I saw you shaking your head.
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.
BROWN: Was it all talk?
MARTIN: No, it wasn't all talk. This is a nice little game folks in Washington, D.C. play. Whenever you have the Democrats who are in control, the Republicans complain we're not being included, we can't play in the sandbox. Whenever you have Republicans in control, Democrats complain we're not playing in the sandbox. This is why they fight every two years to get control of the House.
When you have large margins, you do what you want to do. Republicans had eight years of President George W. Bush, that all of those years were in the House and the Senate. They did what they wanted to do --
MADDEN: But Roland --
BROWN: But Roland, this is supposed to be the president of change.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Roland --
MARTIN: Oh, but look --
BROWN: This is going to be all different this time.
MARTIN: OK, OK. You can be a president and say, I'm going to talk to Republicans and sit down with them, but you're still dealing with a Congress where Democrats are saying, you know what? You didn't play with us for eight years, we're not going to play with you.
(CROSSTALK)
MADDEN: But Roland, Roland --
BROWN: Hang on, let me let Jeffrey get in here.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: I think bipartisan is irrelevant. No one in the real world cares about bipartisanship. There's only one question that matters about this plan, will it work? That's the only thing that matters and whether it was bipartisan or not, no one is going to remember or care what the vote was.
This is President Obama's economy now, and if it improves, he'll get the credit. If it doesn't, he'll get the blame. And the vote on this bill is irrelevant.
BROWN: Kevin, is that the bottom line?
MADDEN: Yes. Well, look, look, I think that to Roland's point, you know, the American public is not going to accept an argument that, you know, I'm rubber, you're glue. I mean, this is supposed to be a -- we have challenging times here. And I think that the debate was a very robust one and the people decided that they want to send the message that the status quo was not to be accepted in Washington, D.C. And what we've seen right now is Capitol Hill Democrats and the president essentially guard the status quo.
MARTIN: Kevin --
(CROSSTALK)
MADDEN: And I think that -- but I do believe --
MARTIN: Kevin, news flash, you all lost.
MADDEN: Jeffrey is exactly right.
(CROSSTALK)
TOOBIN: Wait a second.
MADDEN: We don't care whether or not a vote count, but they do want to see a progress here. And what was wrong with the stimulus bill right now is that it's seen as a partisan bill that doesn't offer the big solutions that the American public voted for.
MARTIN: In Washington, D.C., Kevin, only in Washington, D.C.
BROWN: OK, hold on.
MARTIN: People on the outside really don't care. President Bush has to have a stimulus plan, had tax cuts. Did that work? No. Here's another plan. We'll see if it works. We don't know.
Nobody on the Democrat or Republican side can admit that they know what is going to happen. If they say they do, they're lying. We have to wait and see what happens.
BROWN: All right. You got 20 seconds, Jeff.
TOOBIN: The status quo in Washington was that George Bush was president. He's not president anymore. Barack Obama's running the show now, so I think you can hardly say that this is a status quo situation. This is now an economy that Barack Obama has said he's going to improve. Let's see if he does it.
MADDEN: With more spending and more government bureaucracy. BROWN: All right. Got to end it there.
MARTIN: Kevin, you had your shot. You guys lost.
BROWN: To be continued, Roland, Kevin, Jeff, many thanks, guys. Have a good weekend.
Even in the desert, you do see the ripple effect of this economic crisis. Find out how one Arizona family is getting back in the swing on a much smaller income.
And at the top of the hour, more coverage of Continental Flight 3407 as Larry King talks to the pilot's family and other victims' relatives. "LARRY KING LIVE" in just a few minutes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Companies cut workers. People stop spending. Stores end up closing. Every pink slip perpetuates the cycle as families are forced to make some tough choices. We've been following this ripple effect across the country to see how Americans are meeting the challenge. And tonight, Gary Tuchman takes us to Tempe, Arizona, where tough times have some out of work and also out of the game.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Tempe, Arizona, at the Ken McDonald public golf course, the difficult economy is driving away some business. Each person no longer golfing here has his or her own story.
(on camera): You haven't gone back to the golf course?
TED TINDALL, LOST JOB: No, not yet.
(voice-over): Ted Tindall lost his $94,000 a year job in October, first time he's ever been unemployed.
T. TINDALL: I was in shock. My first thought was, what am I going to do now and what about my family?
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: One of my bottom lines is whether or not credit is flowing to the people who need it.
TUCHMAN: Tindall, his wife, Julie, and their two little girls, Caylee (ph) and Sophie, are paying close attention to what Washington is doing. If Ted doesn't get a job within two months or so, he says he might have to ask family for help.
T. TINDALL: Hopefully if the stimulus package kicks in and it does what they say it's going to do, maybe people will start to hire again.
TUCHMAN: Ted Tindall is a simple engineer by trade. He managed the design for land development for new neighborhoods, but the booming growth in the Phoenix area has slowed down or stopped. The ripples from the downturn in construction upended Ted Tindall from the career he loves.
T. TINDALL: We have a lot of fun and we work hard.
TUCHMAN: This neighborhood in Chandler, Arizona, was one of his projects. Almost all of these lots are still empty after about two years.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We sell a lot of these. We try to.
TUCHMAN: And one of the houses still under construction, a fireplace installer, who has his work cut out for him in the best of times in sunny Arizona knows these are not the best of times.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It does stink. Business stinks.
JULIE TINDALL, WORKS 2 PART-TIME JOBS: Are we going to read just a couple of pages or the whole book?
UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: A couple.
TUCHMAN: The Tindalls have a $1,700 monthly mortgage and nearly $1,000 health insurance payment. They do have some income. Julie has taken on two part-time physical therapy jobs, but they're still bringing in about $90,000 less before taxes than they used to. Unnecessary shopping and dining out are just some of their cuts.
They try to be positive saying this is a valuable lesson for their children.
J. TINDALL: I try to explain it to them this is very temporary. We're all doing what we need. I don't pay allowance anymore to my daughter and she's reminding me, hey, mom, we're not getting allowance. And like we're not getting allowance either.
TUCHMAN (on camera): Consider the Ken McDonald Golf Course an economic barometer of sorts. When it starts getting consistently busy again, that would probably be a good sign the economy is coming back. Ted Tindall says when he gets work, he'll be right back here.
(voice-over): And he hopes it's not too long before the clubs come out of the closet.
(on camera): I think you'll have a job in two months. That's my guess just from talking to you. But if you don't, what will you do?
T. TINDALL: Become a rock star. I don't know.
TUCHMAN: You haven't lost your sense of humor?
T. TINDALL: Yes. You have to keep it in this world.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): His job has disappeared, but as of yet, not his fighting spirit.
Gary Tuchman, CNN, Tempe, Arizona.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Today, the mother of the octuplets is speaking out for the first time since word of death threats against her. And remember the koalas seen around the world during the Australian wildfires? Well, it turns out the image did a little time traveling as well and landed right smack in the middle of our "Bull's-Eye." We'll explain.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CIDNEI RUCKER, 4TH GRADE, RENAISSANCE ELEMENTARY: Dear President Obama, congratulations on winning the presidency. Other kids in other countries attend school more than the kids in the United States and therefore, receive higher academic scores. Will you extend the school year longer? Your friend, Cidnei.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Cidnei's classmates at Renaissance Elementary are probably saying, no, don't give him any ideas. Cidnei is a fourth grader from Fairburn, Georgia.
To send us your letter, look for the iReport link on our Web site, CNN.com/Campbell.
We are continuing to follow late developments in the tragedy of Flight 3407. That's coming up. But there is other news tonight as well, and Gary Tuchman is here with that right now -- Gary.
TUCHMAN: Campbell, hello to you. A video has surfaced appearing to show an American United Nations relief official kidnapped in Pakistan. In it, he begs for help from the U.N. to gain his release.
John Solecki was abducted 11 days ago after a gunman shot and pulled his driver. A U.N. spokesperson saying it's not clear who took Solecki or what their demands are.
Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg is out of the hospital. She had surgery for pancreatic cancer eight days ago. Doctors found two small growths, one benign, the other malignant but no sign the cancer had spread.
The mother of the California octuplets gave the TV show "Extra" a quick update today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NADYA SULEMAN, OCTUPLETS' MOM: I'm really good. I'm really good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUCHMAN: Nadya Suleman has been laying low after receiving death threats. The LAPD is investigating. Suleman is a single mother who's drawn criticism, in part, because she was already on food stamps while raising her six other children before having eight more through in vitro fertilization.
And hoping to prove romance can flourish even on a budget, the White Castle fast food chain is redoing most of its locations with candlelight, flowers and tablecloths for anyone wanting to make their Valentine's Day meal a bit more frugal but you'll need to call ahead there for a reservation. For those of you who are not familiar with White Castle cuisine, they have the little tiny square burgers. They're very delicious, Campbell, but they aren't confused.
BROWN: I know.
TUCHMAN: They aren't confused with health food.
BROWN: No, no, not in the least. That doesn't really matter to a pregnant woman, though.
Gary Tuchman for us tonight. Thank you very much, Gary.
"LARRY KING LIVE" up in just a few minutes. Tonight, a personal look at the pilot of Flight 3407. Larry has that and a lot more of the crash coverage -- Larry.
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": You're right, Campbell. We're going to have the latest on the breaking news from the plane crash near Buffalo. The pilot's sister is going to be with us, along with a number of other friends and relatives who are grieving tonight and asking questions that we all want answers to, which is, of course, how and why did this happen?
It's "LARRY KING LIVE" at the top of the hour, Campbell.
BROWN: All right. Larry, we'll see you in just a few minutes.
My inbox has been overflowing in response to last night's "Cutting Through the Bull" on the court ruling that there is no link between vaccines and autism. Some of you agreed with me, some definitely did not. But so many of you had more questions about this that we are bringing our Elizabeth Cohen back to answer them. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: I knew I was stepping into the middle of a huge controversy when last night I urged all parents to vaccinate their children. And boy, have we heard from you.
Over the last 24 hours, my inbox has been overflowing. As we told you last night, a court ruled yesterday that there is no evidence of a link between childhood vaccinations and autism.
Unfortunately, an increasing number of parents still believe the myth that there is a link and avoid vaccinating their kids. This is one of the reasons measles is on the rise, and as I explained last night, a baby needs to be 12 months to get the measles vaccine. That means that infants are protected from the measles only because everyone they come in contact with, we hope, has already been vaccinated. As adults increasingly refuse to vaccinate their children, we will continue to see a rise in measles outbreaks.
First, I do want to thank everybody for taking the time to write and I do want to share some of your responses.
Sherry from Kentucky strongly disagreed with me saying, "I have no faith that the government would tell the American people the truth about vaccinations. If they would, they would cause panic and no one would get their kids vaccinated. I chose not to vaccinate my four boys, and I am happy with that choice."
Several nurses and doctors wrote e-mails like this one from Dr. Arvind Shah in New Jersey.
"Misinformation has scared and confused lots of parents. Your fine piece of journalism will serve a lot of children, their parents and us pediatricians as well."
Many of the e-mails we received did raise a lot of questions. And it's clear, there is so much misinformation out there on this subject. So we asked our senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, to come back and answer some of your e-mail questions and "Cut Through the Bull" for us on this tonight.
So Elizabeth, I'm going to start with this. This is from Tammy (ph) in Connecticut. And she wrote, "I suggest they start giving them individually instead of bundling the vaccinations. I have no problem with separate shots. I believe it's the bundling of those shots that causes this problem."
And Elizabeth, the question is, is there any evidence to support this?
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Doctors tell me, Campbell, there is no evidence to support that. That getting several shots, even five or six shots at one visit, there's no evidence it does your child harm or that it overwhelms their immune system. But having said that, if parents are still concerned for whatever reason, even the CDC says the schedule is flexible. It's flexible.
Talk to your doctor if you want to do something different. Doctors often work with families in this regard for advice on how to do that. If you go to CNN.com/campbellbrown, you'll see an "Empowered Patient" column that I wrote on how to do just that.
BROWN: And Elizabeth, next we've got Mike from California who wrote, "How is it that autism didn't arrive in this country until the MMR shot did?"
Is that true?
COHEN: No, Campbell, that's not true at all. The MMR shot came on the scene in the mid-1970s. Autism has been around, was around for many decades before that so that's just not true.
BROWN: And Elizabeth, I guess explain what some of the theories are about the cause of autism.
COHEN: Right. No one knows exactly what causes autism, but there are several theories out there. For example, there is some evidence that there's a genetic component to autism. For example, when an identical twin has autism, there's a relatively high risk that the other identical twin will also have autism, so that's one theory. Another theory is that something happens in the mother's womb to the baby while those neurons are developing that the problem actually starts in the womb.
Now, there's another theory and this one, a lot of doctors will tell you this, is that there isn't necessarily more autism. It's that we're reporting and diagnosing it better so it seems that way.
BROWN: All right. Elizabeth Cohen for us tonight on all this. Elizabeth, thanks.
COHEN: Thanks.
BROWN: We want to go back to tonight's breaking news about the New York plane crash. One of the people aboard, Beverly Eckert, lived through a 9/11 nightmare and went on to help hundreds of others like her. That story when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We're learning more tonight about the victims of the crash of Flight 3407 near Buffalo. Just a little bit ago in Iowa, the sister of the plane's pilot, Marvin Renslow, set his picture on her front porch for reporters to see and photograph.
Another victim of the crash was a 9/11 widow who became an activist and survived for survivors and their families. Her name is Beverly Eckert. President Obama paid tribute to her this morning in the East Room of the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Tragic events such as these remind us of the fragility of life and to value every single day. One person who understood that well was Beverly Eckert who was on that flight and who I met with just a few days ago.
You see, Beverly lost her husband on 9/11 and became a tireless advocate for those families whose lives were forever changed on that September day. And in keeping with that passionate commitment, she was on her way to Buffalo to mark what would have been her husband's birthday and launched a scholarship in his memory. So she was an inspiration to me and to so many others, and I pray that her family finds peace and comfort in the hard days ahead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Last night's deadly crash was the final chapter in Beverly Eckert's life, and Randi Kaye has more on the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These were happier times. Beverly Eckert and her husband, Sean Rooney, high school sweethearts. She worked in insurance, he worked on Wall Street. They lived in Connecticut, across the street from this woman.
GAIL ARMONDINO, NEIGHBOR: They were the first neighbors we met when we moved in. They came over with a fresh-baked pie that was so warm and it was quite delicious.
KAYE: Beverly and her husband enjoyed the theater. He was an avid golfer. She had a book club. They didn't have any children, just the two of them. Then the planes hit.
BEVERLY ECKERT, HUSBAND DIED IN 9/11: My husband called me and he was very calm, and he was trying to figure a way to get out of the building.
KAYE: Sean Rooney never found a way out. He perished in the World Trade Center's South Tower. Beverly couldn't make sense of it. She turned her grief into action.
ECKERT: I'm simply resolved that his death won't be meaningless.
KAYE: She co-founded Voices of September 11th, an advocacy group for survivors and 9/11 families. Valerie Lucznikowska lost her nephew on 9/11 and got to know Beverly.
VALERIE LUCZNIKOWSKA, FRIEND: We've lost an advocate for humanity. I'm still rejecting the understanding that Beverly isn't here anymore. I still can't quite accept that.
KAYE (on camera): Beverly worked tirelessly in her husband's name. She co-chaired the 9/11 Family Steering Committee, devoted to exposing failures that led up to the attacks and fixing them. She pushed for the 9/11 Commission and for Congress to adopt its recommendations.
ECKERT: If this bill doesn't pass, I don't think I'll ever -- I don't think I'll ever be able to go back there. I think I'll be too ashamed because first, because I would have failed my husband and secondly, because his government will have failed him again.
KAYE (voice-over): In recent months, Beverly started volunteering for Habitat for Humanity and working as a teacher's assistant. She had a boyfriend, too. Just last Friday, she took the train to Washington, D.C. to meet with President Obama and other victims' families about how he planned to handle terror suspects. Valerie was on board with her.
LUCZNIKOWSKA: She had prepared a two-page agenda on what we could do about Guantanamo.
KAYE (on camera): What did she ask the president during this meeting? LUCZNIKOWSKA: The one thing that she asked the president during the meeting was, if there would be more meetings. She was hoping that this would -- there would be something to build on.
KAYE (voice-over): This picture was taken with Beverly's camera just minutes before that meeting. It is one of Beverly's last. She sent it to Valerie a couple of days ago.
Beverly had launched a scholarship in her husband's name in their hometown of Buffalo, New York. She was headed there Thursday night on Continental Flight 3407 to celebrate with family what would have been his 58th birthday. Just over seven years after a plane took her husband's life, a plane took her life.
Randi Kaye, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Finally, tonight our "Bull's-Eye." This photo made Sam the koala a symbol of hope amid the deadly Australian bushfires. Heartwarming? Yes. True? Not so much.
Turns out the picture was taken well before the fire started. A firefighter e-mailed it to friends. Things snowballed from there but hey, none of that is the koala bear's fault, right? Still pretty cute.
That's it for us. We'll see you Monday.
"LARRY KING LIVE" right now.
