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Campbell Brown
Stock Market Rebounds; Louisiana Police Under Fire
Aired March 13, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, folks, how about some good news when we start the weekend when it comes to the economy?
It is bullet point number one: Wall Street doing better than it has in months.
And, today, President Barack Obama reassured Americans that government is getting credit flowing and putting us on the road to recovery.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Right now is very tough, but we're providing help along the way. That's why we put a housing program in place. That's why we're going to be announcing additional steps to help small businesses.
But, if we are -- if we are keeping focused on all the fundamentally sound aspects of our economy, all the outstanding companies, workers, all the innovation and dynamism in this economy, then we're going to get through this. And I'm very confident about that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: Is the president's sunny tone the big reason stocks ended up for a fourth straight day?
Bullet point number two: We're going to the Bayou State, Louisiana, where we're live tonight, because racial tensions are boiling after a fatal police shooting of a great-grandfather. Some think his race may have played a role, especially because of what witnesses claim they saw officers do after the 73-year-old man was shot.
And bullet point number three: You have been hearing a lot about the Chris Brown and Rihanna case. He's facing serious charges, after she was beaten, bitten and choked. But there's one group I don't think you have heard from yet, and you should. We're sitting down with men. I want to know what men should do when it comes to our own laying hands on a woman.
And I want to hear from you, so be sure to grab the phone and call in toll-free tonight, 1-877-NO-BULL-0. That's 1-877-662-8550. Getting your thoughts on the Chris Brown/Rihanna domestic violence story. But, first off, we begin with Wall Street's big week. And, normally, when we talk to our chief business correspondent, Ali Velshi, about the markets, we get this face, sad Ali over there. But, this week, we have been getting the happy face, this particular one. And I got a feeling you like that one a bit more.
Ali, it's been a heck of a week for folks when it comes to Wall Street. Should be feeling kind of good.
ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
I don't want to get carried with it, Roland, but the fact is, it's good to be able to report for a whole week now good news. Let me piece this together for you and give you a sense of what's going on in this economy and why you might feel a little better about it.
First of all, there's been a unified chorus out of Washington. The president, Ben Bernanke, the chairman of the Federal Reserve, Tim Geithner, the treasury secretary and the chief economic adviser, have all come together and been on Capitol Hill, testifying, speaking to the media, all of them talking about how this economy is doing better and how their plans for the economy are going to help it out of the doldrums that it's in.
Number two, yesterday, Tim Geithner and the president were both speaking to the Business Roundtable, a gathering of major business leaders, and there was a real sense of wanting to work with the business community, and the business community saying to the president, they want to work together.
It's a good thing for America if they are not at loggerheads, despite how much damage Wall Street has done to this economy.
Number three, somebody's giving the government money back. General Motors, which has been a net recipient of money from the government, says it won't need the next two billion dollars that it was going to take. Citibank and other banks said that their first few months of this year were profitable.
Three banks have already filed to give back their bailout money back to the government. Four more banks have said they're intending to do that. That would be $50 billion going back to the government.
Number four, take a look at this. This is consumers buying more stuff. For the second month in a row, January and February both, we have data that indicates not much of an uptick, but consumers are buying more in the way of clothing and accessories and electronics and appliance and makeup and health care products, some sense that things are not all as bad as they seem.
And that has all added up to a 9 percent gain this week in the stock market, Roland, one week, 9 percent. There are some people who will tell you 9 percent in an entire year is a strong gain, albeit we were very low in this market right now. But the combination of these factors, Roland, has created some optimism, some sense that maybe they are in charge in Washington and maybe things are a little better than we have been feeling that they have been for so many months.
MARTIN: And praise God for good news.
VELSHI: I will tell it.
MARTIN: We certainly appreciate it. Thanks so much.
OK, folks, so how much of this is really all about two way the White House is playing up the new buzzword, confidence?
Let's go to CNN's senior political analyst, Gloria Borger.
Gloria, how you doing?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I'm doing well.
MARTIN: All right, Gloria, we got a big change in terms of tone from the president this week. So, exactly what is behind this strategy of this new sort of tone, sort of the happy president?
BORGER: The happy president, right.
(LAUGHTER)
BORGER: Well, they started out, Roland, as you well know, in kind of crisis mode, because the White House felt that it needed to create a sense of urgency in this country, as if we needed to create one, but to give people the sense that they ought to get their stimulus package passed.
Now they have gotten their stimulus package passed. They have got a housing plan. They're about to come up with a banking plan. And what the folks in the White House are telling is, we're going to tell the American people, the pillars are there. We have paved the way for the economy to get better. We are confident about it, and they need to be confident about it, too, because, if you don't have confidence, things aren't going to get better.
So, it's part of a clear strategy to change the tone a little bit, Roland.
MARTIN: All right, Gloria, we appreciate that. Hold tight. We're going to check with you a later in the show.
Gloria and Ali, we certainly appreciate it. Thanks a lot.
And, also, folks, a reminder, beginning Monday, get five days of unprecedented worldwide reporting on the money meltdown that's changing your life, from CNN, the only news network that would take on a story this big, "Road to Rescue: The CNN Survival Guide," all next week on the networks of CNN.
We have got some serious questions about just what the police did to a 73-year-old Louisiana man. And so do a lot of other people, including the Justice Department -- the allegations and the reaction up next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I refrained what you say and we recalled it in such a way that it becomes...
MARTIN: There's anger and sadness and many unresolved questions tonight in a small town in Louisiana.
A 73-year-old black man is dead, shot by two white cops. And there are allegations that those cops planted a gun near his body.
It happened last month in Homer, Louisiana, population 3,800. And, tonight, members of the community are at a town hall meeting demanding answers.
Our own Sean Callebs has the story.
Sean, exactly what is going on in Homer, Louisiana?
SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it's safe to say people in that small town want answers. The racial tensions, I think it's safe to say, could not be more elevated.
And for those of you who think you know Louisiana because you know what New Orleans is like, well, let me explain. The northern part of the state is far different, the northern part very Christian conservative. And while many blacks in the Southern part of state, New Orleans, Lafayette, have achieved a great deal of political clout and power, many African-Americans in the northern part of this state believe they are still fighting for that recognition and fighting for that piece of the pie.
And that certainly is playing a part in all of this tension. It's showing no signs of cooling down any time soon. And, also, this shooting has triggered a massive investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CALLEBS (voice-over): This is 73-year-old Bernard Monroe. Three weeks ago, on February 20, it was late afternoon. He was barbecuing for his family, their kids and his grandkids.
Two white police officers pulled up to the house. They had come to question Monroe's son, Sean. Sean has a long record of arrests and convictions, but he has no outstanding warrants. So it's unclear why police wanted to see him on that day.
Witnesses say, when Sean saw the officers, he ran into the house. One of the officers who had only been on the Homer police force for a few weeks chased him inside.
What happened next is murky at best.
This woman, Denise Nicholson, Sean's sister-in-law, was there. She says 73-year-old Bernard Monroe walked toward the house to see what was going on. DENISE NICHOLSON, FAMILY MEMBER: So, he had his hands up like this right here. And, so, the police just turned afternoon and just started shooting. Then, after he done shot about seven or eight times, he going to holler, he got a gun. Ain't nobody seen no gun yet.
Monroe had throat cancer, and it has destroyed his voice. The police department says Monroe was holding a loaded gun when he was shot. The officer who killed him is currently on paid leave.
Witnesses that day tell a different story. They insist it was a sports drink bottle and that, after the shooting, the other police officer took a gun Monroe kept on his front porch and placed it near the dying man.
"I saw the officer pick up the gun off the porch. I said, 'What are you doing?' The cop told me: 'Shut the hell up. You don't know what you're talking about.'"
As allegations of a police cover-up spread, tensions have only grown worse.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The only thing we're asking for is justice and for the truth to be known.
CALLEBS: Three investigations are under way, the FBI. The U.S. Department of Justice and the Louisiana State Police are all involved. Law enforcement sources tell me there are a huge number of investigators from as far away as New Orleans and Lafayette. They're taking this investigation seriously.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a loss for the whole community, everybody's loss, you know?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MARTIN: Hey, Sean, a lot of things happening down there in terms of investigations. There are a lot of folks investigating this. Tell us about that.
CALLEBS: Well, I talked with Donald Washington. He's the U.S. attorney for the western district of the state, and he said basically officers from the FBI, as well as the Justice Department, state police, have all flocked to that area.
And what they're doing right now is canvassing witnesses. They want to talk to as many witnesses as they can to get the story as clearly as possible. And Washington also said it's basically a two- pronged investigation. One, they're trying to get all the information, but, secondly, it's almost a community relations effort, too. He said he's trying to keep a lid on the rhetoric and all the rumors that have been flying around.
MARTIN: Sean, we certainly appreciate it. Thanks a bunch, and we will be checking with, with more details. Right now, folks, I want to bring you in "Chicago Tribune" reporter Howard Witt, who has been following this story from the beginning, as well as Denise Nicholson. You saw her in that report, Sean's report. She's a member of Bernard Monroe's family and a witness to the shooting. And she's at the community meeting in Homer tonight.
I want to start off with you, Howard.
This isn't -- you have been covering a lot of different stories of race for the last several years. And this particular story is interesting. You talked to a lot of different witnesses. And what have they been saying that's unique about this story?
HOWARD WITT, "THE CHICAGO TRIBUNE": Well, Roland, they really tell stories that seem to have the ring of truth.
Obviously, the authorities are going to have to sort through all of this. But they all tell stories, relate accounts of this that have details that you wouldn't expect people would be able to make up.
MARTIN: Such as?
(CROSSTALK)
WITT: Well, for instance, one of the witnesses said that he saw the police officer take a latex glove and instead of putting it on his hand, draped it over his hands in order to pick up this gun with his fingers and place it next to Mr. Monroe.
And he said it was a blue latex glove. Well, when I talked to the local police chief there a few hours later, the police chief -- and I told the police chief what this witness had said -- the police chief said: "Oh, yeah? Well, what color did he say the glove was?"
And I said, well, the witness said the glove was blue. And the police chief, you could kind of see the blood drain from his face, and he said: "That's right. We have blue police-issue latex gloves."
So, there's details like that that just have the ring of truth.
MARTIN: All right, Denise, I want to go to you.
You say, when the police drove by at first, everything seemed OK, but what happened after that?
NICHOLSON: OK, well, initially we was all sitting out. We was all sitting out laughing and talking.
And I walked up to the truck that Sean was in. And I had got a text message on my phone. So, I told Sean to look at the text message. So, as I was talking to Sean, I looked up and saw two police cars coming down the road.
We're used to them patrolling through there, so we didn't think nothing was up. The police came down the road. As they was coming down the road, I had asked Sean to move on down, so that he could -- the police could go on through.
Well, they stopped. And, when they stopped, they stopped and talked to my niece and asked my niece what happened to -- the first offer stopped and asked my niece what happened to her leg.
So, when he asked her what happened to her leg, she told him she had had surgery on her leg. So, in the midst of him asking her that, he said, actually, did she break her leg? And she said, no, I just had surgery on my leg about a month ago.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: ... officers who were talking to you and the family. But, then, all of a sudden, when they began to approach the porch, at what point did Mr. Monroe get shot? And did you actually witness him being shot?
NICHOLSON: Yes, I saw him get shot.
But it was like two or three minutes before that even happened, because, after they -- the conversation was about a minute or a minute-and-a-half about her leg. Mr. Ben got up out of his chair, and he started flapping his arms. And the officer asked, what did he do?
So, I turned around and looked at him. And told them that he was saying that she was chickening around. So, after that little part went through, the officer told us, you all have a nice day. They pulled on down the road.
But when they emerged on down the road slowly, they came to a stop. So, my niece asked, what are they stopping for? And we all said, we don't know. I don't know what they're stopping for.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: So, at that particular point, the cops stopped in front of his home. And that's when this whole altercation came about. And then Mr. Monroe was shot. And they also claimed that he had a gun.
Now, Howard, what about that whole issue in terms, they're saying that he kept a loaded gun on the porch?
WITT: Yes.
Well, the family members said that this elderly man was an avid hunter and he actually kept a loaded handgun on his porch all the time and for protection. It's kind of a rough neighborhood, where he lives.
I asked the family when they told me that. I said, gosh, that seems kind of strange. You had a family party. You had children running around in the yard. Isn't that dangerous to keep a loaded gun on the porch?
And they said, well, it was his practice and his routine and all the children were trained and learned not to go near that gun. MARTIN: Right.
WITT: But that's the gun in question, because all the witnesses say that he did not -- he wasn't holding that gun; he wasn't anywhere near that gun.
But the police would have been able to see that gun sitting on the porch. And that's the gun that the witnesses are alleging that the police then picked up after Mr. Monroe was shot and placed next near his body.
MARTIN: Howard, hold tight one second. We're going to come to you, because we will talk to the mayor of the city when we come back.
Denise, I know you have to get back to the meeting. We certainly appreciate you participating tonight. Thank you so very much.
Folks, we have got much more on this particular story, as we talk with people at the town meeting in Homer, including the mayor, as I said.
Also tonight, we're taking your calls on domestic violence and the role men play.
So, here's the number, 1-877-NO-BULL-0. That's 1-877-662-8550.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Folks, you're looking at a live picture from Homer, Louisiana, where tensions are running high, after an elderly black man was shot to death by a white police officer last month. Members of the community are gathering tonight.
In a moment, we will talk to the mayor, David Newell, who's been inside tonight's town meeting in Homer.
And with us again, Howard Witt, national for "The Chicago Tribune."
And, Howard, this victim, Bernard Monroe, he had throat cancer. He was unable to talk. And, so, did that somehow have an effect on what took place?
WITT: It could have contributed perhaps to some of the confusion, because he wouldn't have been able to call out or say anything. He would have just been walking up toward this front door.
But what is interesting, too, is that you have to understand, this whole incident occurred against the backdrop of real mistrust in that town between the police and the black community. And I think that raised a lot of mutual misunderstandings and -- and confusion on both sides.
MARTIN: I want to bring in Mayor David Newell right now.
And, Mayor, you just heard Howard Witt say -- talk about this mistrust in the community. Obviously, people are upset, especially African-Americans. And, so, how have you been dealing with this? Is it real, that mistrust that is there between African-Americans in Homer and the police?
DAVID NEWELL, MAYOR OF HOMER, LOUISIANA: I hate to say that it's real. I think there's mistrust between citizens in general and the police department. And I think we have to do a better job of communication.
MARTIN: Mayor, have you talked to the officers involved? What did they say took place?
NEWELL: I have not talked to the officers involved personally. And it is under an investigation. And I would not want to discuss the facts of the case.
MARTIN: Mayor, I do want to get your response to something.
Here's what Police Chief Russell Mills told Howard Witt. He said -- quote -- "If I see three or four young black men walking down the street, I have to stop them and check their names. I want them to be afraid every time they see the police that they might get arrested. We're not out there trying to abuse and harass people. We're trying to protect the law-abiding citizens locked behind their doors in fear.
Now, I understand the role as a police officer to serve and to protect. But he's essentially saying that: I see somebody. I don't have necessarily a reason to stop them.
So, is he racially profiling them? What is your response to that comment from your police chief?
NEWELL: I think that was a very poor choice of words.
I think he was pretty much talking about the neighborhood that he would be driving in. I think it was a poor choice of words. I think he should not have said that.
MARTIN: Well, he may have said it, but, if that's his true feelings, doesn't that point to that whole mistrust that Howard alluded to?
NEWELL: I think you would have to talk to the chief on exactly what he was saying.
If the chief said that he is racially profiling, then absolutely that would create mistrust. I don't think that's what he was intending to say.
MARTIN: Hey, Howard, we spoke a few moments ago with CNN's Sean Callebs. And he talked about these multiple investigations.
And there are all kinds of things that are going on. What's the difference between the various investigations, FBI, state? What's going on? WITT: Well, yes, the state police will be looking primarily at the criminal case, whether or not there's criminal charges that should be filed against the police.
The FBI is looking primarily at a civil rights angle, whether or not there's a federal civil rights action that ought to be initiated here. And that's also what the interest of the Justice Department is, as well as the branch of Justice Department that is there tonight running that meeting is interested in community reconciliation. And they're trying to bring black folks and white folks together to try to talk about these deep, underlying issues.
MARTIN: Mayor, what about that?
Have you seen white citizens in your town and African-Americans speaking more about these differences that are going on, or is this largely a black concern with what took place with Mr. Monroe?
NEWELL: No, I think it's a great concern of everybody in the community.
It's a tragedy. I'm saddened. I personally know the family. I know many of the citizens in the community. And it's a tragedy for us all.
BROWN: Well, it is certainly a tragedy. It sort of hearkens back to the case of course in Atlanta, where several officers there shot and killed an elderly African-American woman. And many of those cops actually went to jail.
We will certainly see what happens in this case.
Mayor David Newell, we certainly appreciate it.
Howard Witt, with "Chicago Tribune," we certainly appreciate all your fine reporting on this story and look to talk to you again.
Folks, Michael Steele, how was your week? Our political panel looks at the Republican Party chairman's future. Is it good or bad for the Grand Old Party?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: It's safe to say Michael Steele has gotten off to a rough start. Those aren't my words. That's the word -- that's what the Senate leader, Republican Mitch McConnell, had to say just today about the man running his party, the GOP.
And it's been another tough week for Mr. Steele. In a magazine interview, he was quoted as saying abortion is an individual choice, and he opposes a constitutional amendment against same-sex marriage.
Let's bring back senior political analyst Gloria Borger, as well as welcome CNN political contributor and Republican strategist Leslie Sanchez.
And I'm going to start with you, Gloria.
I mean, what is the real big deal here? Isn't the real issue that you have a moderate who frankly is leading the party, and they are not welcome in the GOP at this very moment?
BORGER: Well, I think the big deal for the Republican Party is that, right now, they were looking for someone to unite the party after this election.
And what they have found in Michael Steele is somebody who keeps putting his foot in his mouth and divides the party and ends up having to clarify his remarks, whether it's taking on Rush Limbaugh, whether it's talking about abortion. And that's not where the Republican Party really needs to be right now.
MARTIN: Leslie, how do you then, though, expand the party? Here you have a guy who's saying that: I want to have a big tent. I want to open it up.
But, when he makes comments, the folks who are the strong voices in the party, they shut him right down. And, so, folks on the outside are saying, I don't know if I really want to go here.
LESLIE SANCHEZ, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: You know, that's a fair point, Roland.
But I think of two things. One is the fact that Steele overcame significant obstacles to become the chairman of the party. At a time when we're not in the White house, the party tends to vote for their own, meaning somebody who was a party chairman.
He came from the outside. It took six ballots, and he won. But people had a vote of confidence there. And, yes, there are some stumbles. But the biggest way to quell those critics is to win elections. He's got some significant ones in -- governor's races in Virginia and New Jersey. You have got a special election in New York.
I think, if he does well there, it will hearken back to what we saw in 1997, when you had Jim Nicholson, the new chairman, had many obstacles, a lot of debt. But he won elections. And that makes the difference.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Gloria, go right ahead.
BORGER: Roland, in the end, party chairmen are judged by the number of elections they win, by the amount of money that they raise.
And, so, you will have to wait a couple of quarters here to see not only how much money comes into the Republican National Committee, but also how they're spending that money. Now, Republicans I talk to today are saying it's in disarray.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Yes, but can he last a couple of quarters? That's the real issue.
(LAUGHTER)
BORGER: Well, they're not going to get rid of him. It takes two-thirds of a vote of the members of the RNC. And that's just not going to happen.
So, they may have some buyer's remorse right now, but he's there.
SANCHEZ: You know, it's interesting, Roland.
He does have to focus like a laser beam and talking why this is still a center-right country, why we're in a position to win, get that support on the ground, raise that money from the base. Those are some key issues that he's going to have to attest to right away. And that's going to determine his success moving beyond 2009.
MARTIN: So, basically, both of you think he will keep his job for the meantime?
SANCHEZ: Yes.
BORGER: Oh, I think he does. I think he keeps his job. I think he's got to raise an awful lot of money.
I have talked to a bunch of Republicans today, some of whom are having a hard time getting Mr. Steele on the telephone, one of whom was told it would take two weeks for the chairman to get back to him. This is somebody who raises money for the Republican Party. That's not a good sign.
(LAUGHTER)
MARTIN: Well, the bad thing, of course, he's not going to be able to talk to us, because he will probably keep his mouth shut from now on.
So, dang. It was going so good.
SANCHEZ: I find that hard to believe, Roland.
MARTIN: It was going so good there. He gave great quotes.
(LAUGHTER)
MARTIN: Gloria, I certainly appreciate it.
Leslie, thank you very much. I will chat with you guys another day.
Folks, they fought to keep country our safe, but I want you to see for yourself why so many of our veterans need help getting back to work here at home.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) ROLAND MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR, HOST: Our economy might be in the tank, but even some of the hardest hit Americans say you can still live the American dream. Tonight, we're taking another look at the ripple effect of job losses right in the Big Apple, New York City. Campbell Brown tells us about a veteran who has given so much and is now trying to keep his spirits up.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Safe to say no one expected any of this to happen.
PAUL WAX, UNEMPLOYED: I've lived the American dream. I'm a Vietnam veteran. I went to school at night for 14 years to get both of my degrees while I worked during the day and raised a family and sent my kids to college. And now that I'm getting near retirement within five years or so, it's very difficult to find a job.
My retirement, my 401(k) is now a 200.5(k).
BROWN: There is so much talk about what's happened to the American dream these days. Perhaps there should be more talk about the American spirit.
Paul Wax is 61 and lost his job.
WAX: Keeping a positive attitude I think it's something that everybody should take. I know that's not going to put bread on the table but at least, you know, it's not going to make things worse.
BROWN: We met Paul on a cold morning here on Broadway, waiting with so many others to get into a job fair for veterans. Though optimistic things will get better for him, he's angry about those who put us into this mess.
WAX: There's a lot of people like CEOs that should be on this line not us. There should be a lot of presidents of companies that should be on this line and not us.
BROWN: In some respects, Paul sees where we are today as almost inevitable, which is why in November he voted to change it.
WAX: I do have hope. You know, I did vote for Obama because it's time for a big change. The system as it was and as it is up to now has not worked, and it's time to make the system change.
BROWN: After the job fair, Paul set up an afternoon of networking.
WAX: Good. All right. That's good. I'll see you in ten minutes. OK, ma'am, I'll see you soon.
BROWN: Someone might know someone who knows about a job. He told us he sent out two or three resumes a day for the last three months. Severance from his old job just ran out so, of course, he's cutting back. WAX: I used to go to the cleaners almost every week. But now that the economy has taken me to the cleaners, I've been basically more or less ironing my own stuff, washing my own stuff.
But the beautiful thing is that I have a wife and I love her.
BROWN: At home in suburban New Jersey, Paul and his wife, Rizza (ph), have a plan to get through this together. She's gone back to work part-time. Paul has two grown daughters. His youngest has a wedding coming up and Paul wishes he could do more.
WAX: My youngest daughter is getting married in June and there's expenses for the wedding. There's expenses for the engagement party. And I would like to be the good father to help her out as much as I possibly can, deep down inside of my heart, but I know that's not possible in this situation.
BROWN: Like so many people now in his position, Paul worries there is an unspoken prejudice against job searchers in their 60s and that potential jobs might go to younger applicants. And yet, there is something about Paul Wax and that American spirit.
WAX: We're still here. I'm not a philosopher. I'm not one of the ancient Greeks, but I do believe that there's a need to be positive about things and to have hope and to never give up.
BROWN: Campbell Brown, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MARTIN: And for expert advice on how you can get and keep a job, check out CNN.com. Find out who's hiring in your area and see the hotspot for jobs across the country. That's CNN.com/jobs.
Well, tonight, we're following the Rihanna/Chris Brown case and asking one simple question. Why would any man even consider beating up a woman? We want to hear what you think? So give us a call at 1- 877-662-8550.
And Timothy of the "Tar Heel" state of North Carolina, is standing by with a very personal story.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: A possible vacancy on the Supreme Court? We'll tell you who may be dropping a few hints. But first, Randi Kaye is here with "The Briefing."
Hi, Randi.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Roland. Good to see you.
One day after Bernard Madoff's guilty plea, lawyers are trying to get him out of jail. Today, they appealed a judge's decision to revoke his $10 million bail. Madoff is awaiting sentencing in June. According to "The Associated Press," the confessed swindler and his wife had a net worth of $823 million at the end of last year.
Anna Nicole Smith's attorney/boyfriend and two doctors are being charged with conspiring to supply her with thousands of prescription pills. The former "Playboy" playmate died of a drug overdose in 2007. California Attorney General Jerry Brown called her boyfriend, Howard K. Stern, "the principal enabler" and also blasted the two doctors.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JERRY BROWN, CALIFORNIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: Doctors do not have a license to pump innocent and often vulnerable people full of dangerous chemicals.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAYE: And in related news, the Supreme Court today denied a request from Stern to unfreeze $88.5 million in assets he claims are owed to Smith's estate. Stern will be on "LARRY KING LIVE" at the top of the hour. You don't want to miss that.
A health advocacy group says some of the biggest brands of baby products on the market contain trace amounts of two chemicals believed to cause cancer. The Campaign for Safe Cosmetics tested baby bath products, such as shampoo and some lotion. Now the chemicals which the EPA calls "probable carcinogens" appear to be by-products of the manufacturing process.
And take a look at this. It could be coming soon to a mailbox near you. The postal service is testing this three-wheeled electric cart. They say it costs only 25 cents a day to operate.
Can that get through the rain, the snow, and all that stuff?
MARTIN: No kidding. Can it get away from the dogs? That's what I want to know.
KAYE: There you go. No protection there.
MARTIN: There you go. We certainly appreciate it. Thanks so very much.
Folks, Frankie Beverly made a song called "Joy and Pain." Of course, "LARRY KING LIVE," they got lots of joy tonight. Joy Behar is filling in for Larry.
Joy, what's on tap?
JOY BEHAR, GUEST HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Hi, Roland. How are you?
MARTIN: Doing great.
BEHAR: Jimmy Fallon is with us on "LARRY KING LIVE". How's he doing in his new job as host of "Late Night"? Plus, the latest on the Anna Nicole Smith shocker. Was Howard K. Stern her drug pusher?
And Ron Paul and Stephen Baldwin are here debating marijuana. Should it be legalized?
It's next on "LARRY KING LIVE" -- Roland.
MARTIN: Wow, Joy, drug pushing. You know we'll be watching that one and see what you think about that story. Thanks so much. We appreciate it.
Folks, remember, we're taking your calls tonight on domestic violence and the role men play. How do we break the cycle? Men talk about what we can do to stop the violence. The number is 1-877-no- bull-0. That's 1-877-662-8550.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: All week long we've heard experts, talk show hosts and others tell singer Rihanna it's a bad move to get back with her boyfriend, Chris Brown, who allegedly beat her on the night before the Grammys. One thing I've noticed, though, is that we haven't spent a lot of time at all focusing on the male aspect of domestic violence. And that's why tonight we changed that and we purposely assembled an all male panel to confront the role men play in domestic violence.
Now, before we get to that, I want to listen to Chris Brown on "The Tyra Banks Show" in 2007, long before the incident with Rihanna, when he talked about violence in his own home growing up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS BROWN, MUSICIAN: I know some people their families don't do it, on domestic violence and something like that. I don't want to mention the person's name, but it's like somebody that hurt my mom, you know what I'm saying, and me having to deal with that from the age of like 7 all the way to 13, me seeing that and being, I'm saying like visually abused by it. So --
TYRA BANKS, HOST, "THE TYRA BANKS SHOW": And how did it affect you?
BROWN: It affected me, you know what I'm saying, basically, especially toward women I treat them differently because I don't want to go through the same thing or put a woman through the same thing that that person put my mom through.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: Joining me now, community organizer, anti-violence activist and author Kevin Powell. His latest book "The Black Male Handbook" is now out in paperback. Ted Bunch is a co-founder of A Call to Men," the national association of men and women committed to ending violence against women. And Dr. Nando Pelusi, a behavioral psychologist and author of the "Neanderthink" column for "Psychology Today."
And, Kevin, I want to start with you. You have your own personal story.
KEVIN POWELL, ANTI-VIOLENCE ACTIVIST: Absolutely.
MARTIN: With domestic violence. Talk about that in terms of what you actually experienced.
POWELL: Well, it happened between 1987 and 1991. So I'll make it clear that it hasn't happened since and it'll never happen again. But I was one of those young men who was socialized in an environment around violence thinking that violence was a solution for all conflict. As a result when I became a very young man, you know, I engaged in that kind of behavior towards females.
MARTIN: And what's that kind of behavior?
POWELL: Violence.
MARTIN: Physical abuse.
POWELL: Absolutely, absolutely. And the last time it happened was pushing a girlfriend into a bathroom door in 1991. Luckily, I was around a community of very progressive people, activists who said, one, you've got to get help, which is why the counseling came in, and that's very critical.
Our folks will say, you know, men will do it again and again and again. If they don't get help, if they don't get counseling, if they don't own that issue of internalized sexism and thinking it's OK to hit women, they won't change. And so that was very critical for me. The other part of it was beginning to listen to the concerns and voices of women and girls and becoming, at a certain point, an ally to women and girls, which is the work that I do now.
MARTIN: Dr. Pelusi, what about that in terms of him saying that I had to recognize that what I was doing was wrong but having to get that counseling.
NANDO PELUSI, PSYCHOLOGIST: Right, exactly. Kevin showed that he recognized there was a problem. He had the resources and the willingness to work on it. Men can work on it but don't forget that, you know, some of it is socialization, but some of it is the male, masculine mind, trying to commandeer women. It's been something that men have done throughout history.
We try to learn how to control ourselves and in this case, you know, you found a way to do it. But a lot of it is what men tell themselves. For example, if men say, I have to control her, I need her to respect me. What happens is his ego gets in the way. He puts himself down, and the woman is suddenly given the power to put him down. And what happens is, he thinks the only thing left for me to do is to commandeer this and it escalates more and more.
MARTIN: And more, I'm going to go to a phone call from Chicago. I want to go to Ted.
Ted, what about that? You focus on the sexism that men must confront.
TED BUNCH, CO-FOUNDER, "A CALL TO MEN": Yes.
MARTIN: What about it? Talk to me about that.
BUNCH: Yes, thank you.
Well, domestic violence is the manifestation of sexism. It's a gender-based crime, right? Gender-based violence.
So when we look at men's violence against women, it's interesting that when a man is angry or stressed out or upset, he knows who he can hit and who he can't hit. In other words, the violence is selective and exclusive. So when he's upset at work, or when he's upset with the police or when he's upset in any other situation, he has conflict resolution skills. But see, he doesn't need to use those because our socialization on how we're taught to be men, our definition of manhood says that women have less value than men.
MARTIN: He also knows he's going to pay a price if he hit a cop.
BUNCH: Well, exactly. And there is no price because we don't value women.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
BUNCH: Because in no valuing women, we're taught that women are property. We're taught that women are objects and so we don't even look at it as so much as an individual ill, but a social ill needing a social response and its men as a collective that are the problem. This man is just operating out of how he's been taught.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
BUNCH: In other words, we taught Chris Brown very well how to disrespect women.
MARTIN: I want to go to Tracye from Chicago who's on the phone. Tracye, what's your comment?
TRACYE, CALLER: Hi, Roland. How are you doing?
MARTIN: Great.
TRACYE: I just wanted to say that I'm really glad that you're talking about this because over the last few weeks, I mean, this whole Chris and Rihanna thing has really blown up. And I really haven't heard men step up and speak up and say, you know, this shouldn't happen, this is wrong. I mean, a lot of the celebrity guys are retracting their words. I don't know, you know, if they're scared of the repercussions but I want to hear men stand up and say this is wrong.
And as far as Chris and Rihanna, I personally think that they both have issues that they need to work out and being together right now doesn't really seem like the answer. So I would ask you, you know, why do you think that, you know, a lot of men aren't stepping up and saying, you know, this is wrong? MARTIN: Right.
TRACYE: You know, can you tell me that?
MARTIN: Tracye, we certainly appreciate that.
Kevin, you want to -- you want to respond to her comment.
POWELL: Well, a couple of things, the doctor made a great point which is, it's not just, you know, the particular environment you come from. We live in a society that there's this thing called policing of male behavior. So from the time we're boys, and I can speak from my own experiences, you know, growing up playing sports, the names I recall are the boys you say off camera and throws a football, you know, that kind of thing.
And so, unfortunately, a lot of men are afraid to step out of those boundaries because they're afraid of being perceived as not a man, you know. And so, when you talk about a situation with Chris Brown, it's not just about Chris Brown.
What I say to men all the time, even if you're not the kind of man who would ever strike a woman, never do anything disrespectful to women, but you have people around you who do those kind of things you say nothing about it, you become just as guilty. You got to have the courage to step up even as by yourself.
MARTIN: Not just physical, you also deal with the whole verbal aspect.
POWELL: Exactly.
MARTIN: Hold tight one second. Panel, you're going to stay with us. We're coming right back, folks.
One way to break the cycle of abuse, the domestic violence toolkit from the National Advisory Council on Violence Against Women. Check it out at toolkit.ncjrs.org.
Folks, we're still taking your phone calls. The number is 1-877- no-bull-0. That's 1-877-662-8550.
Back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: We're back with community activist Kevin Powell, Ted Bunch, from "A Call to Men" and psychologist Nando Pelusi, taking your questions on the violence against women and breaking the cycle of abuse. The number to call, of course, is 1-877-662-8550.
Now, Ted, you believe that men need to check each other...
BUNCH: Yes.
MARTIN: ... when they see that kind of behavior, the verbal abuse because we know what it leads to.
BUNCH: Right, right. Yes, thank you.
Men as a collective are the problem. That our silence as Kevin spoke about, that the overwhelming majority, overwhelming majority of violence against women as men's violence against women, but the majority of the men are not violent, but were silent about the violence that those men who are violent perpetrate. And that silence is also our way of giving permission for them to be abusive.
So, we have to start speaking out whether it's not just about a man hitting a woman, it's about the sexist joke at the water cooler. It's about looking at the woman's body as she goes by. It's all of those things that desensitize us to even the humanity of women because it's really a men's issue. If anyone needs to take responsibility for this, it's men.
MARTIN: Dr. Pelusi, how do we, then, though, focus on this issue of treatment? Frankly, can a man be treated when it comes to domestic violence?
PELUSI: The answer is definitely, yes, he can work on himself. But there are a couple of things to look at, including the picture of the relationship.
You know, women sometimes get deathly afraid that they can't imagine leaving somebody. They also sometimes tell themselves, you know, he really loves me, I need him and he really loves me. This is just a bad behavior. I'm going to try to work it out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
PELUSI: I think that's sort of a trap that women need to be careful that they're saying, well, yes, he does beat me up periodically and it's very shameful to tell people. That's why they may not and community is very important.
MARTIN: Kevin, I've been watching Oprah and Tyra Banks and so many others say why is Rihanna going back.
POWELL: Right.
MARTIN: But I am not hearing men say, Chris, why are you back in a relationship? You need to be using this time working on you.
POWELL: A couple of things Chris is doing. One is own the issue. You know, that's very important, take ownership for it. And number two, counseling is tremendously important.
The mistake that he's making, they both are making, thinking that they can do this together, work this thing out, clearly, the self- esteem issues on both sides and she's going through battered women's syndrome is very obvious. It's happening on a public stage.
And on his side, if I can just, you know, let people know that it's OK, she's back with me, I'll be all right, no, that's not going to change anything. You've got to get out of the relationship and get help. It's very critical.
MARTIN: One other thing is, Ted, also -- one thing that I saw in terms of looking at when the charges were filed, she reads his text message on his phone. She reacts against it, hit him, and he responds. The point there is and not justification, but the point there is, both parties cannot be in a violent relationship. You can't have men and women hitting each other.
PELUSI: There's a line you can't -- you don't cross. I mean, look, even good relationships have arguments. Good relationships -- men, you know, yell and stuff like that, but they find a way to work it out. But when violence happens, then that's a line that's crossed and that's very serious.
MARTIN: Well, look, we certainly appreciate this. And I hope more folks have this conversation because it cannot be only women talking about domestic violence because if we don't address men, then we're going to continue to have the same problem.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right.
MARTIN: Kevin, Ted and Nando, we surely appreciate it. Thanks so very much.
And folks, thank you to the viewers who called in tonight. If we didn't take your phone call, sorry about that. We all listen to the voice mails you're leaving us.
And there's a Web site you can go to that has a toolkit to help you steer clear of domestic violence. It's toolkit.ncjrs.org. Please, go to that Web site.
In a moment, we'll hear from Michelle Obama in her first television interview since she entered the White House.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: Big changes coming to the Supreme Court. That's our top "Political Daily Briefing" and Randi Kaye is back. What's the scoop?
KAYE: Did you miss me?
MARTIN: Of course.
KAYE: Good to be back with the scoop.
We want to tell you about this, first, Roland. Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg made the comment this morning suggesting there might be an impending retirement by one of the justices. Ginsburg said, "We haven't had any of those for some time, but surely we will soon."
The soon-to-be 76-year-old who recently underwent pancreatic surgery didn't give any indication as to who might be leaving, but speculation surrounds Ginsburg herself, or either 88-year-old John Paul Stevens, or 69-year-old David Souter. MARTIN: Shifting gears now to an announcement from Vice President Joe Biden today that a whole lot of stimulus money is going to be given to a company Biden has a close relationship with.
KAYE: That is correct. It is no secret that the vice president is a huge fan of the commuter railroad Amtrak. As senator, he took the train daily between his home and Delaware and Washington, D.C. Well, today, Biden announced Amtrak will receive over $1 billion in stimulus money. And he came to the defense of the often criticized government-owned company.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So I want to be very blunt. I'm tired apologizing for help for Amtrak. It is an absolute national treasure and necessity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAYE: Biden says the money will not only go toward infrastructure upgrades and expansion, but will also put thousands of people to work.
MARTIN: All right. All right. First Lady Michelle Obama, what's up? She's weighing in on this "bare arms" story.
KAYE: Finally, everybody has been talking about how to get Michelle Obama's arms. Well, oh, the first lady received lots of attention for those arms, as you know.
She recently displayed them not only in "People" and "Vogue" magazines, but also in her official White House photograph that you can see there as well. Some have criticized her for not being formal enough. Others, well, they just want to know how to get those toned biceps.
Well, today, the first lady joked about it in an interview on ABC.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: I get up early and I workout. That tends to be my relaxation. It happens in the morning -- my morning workout.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, we say the workouts are doing very well for you.
OBAMA: Well, I covered my arms.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAYE: Now, the first lady also admitted that she sometimes just enjoys vegging (ph) out at night in front of the TV.
And, Roland, actually, we went to a trainer and we asked her how to get Michelle Obama's arms. And she showed me a few exercises. Did you know there are two parts to your bicep?
MARTIN: No.
KAYE: Yes, if you go like this and like that, you can get those arms.
MARTIN: Oh, really?
KAYE: Yes.
MARTIN: Look, I just think it's a crazy story.
KAYE: I'll show you after.
MARTIN: No problem. I have no problem lifting a couple of weights. It's all good, it's all good.
Randi, we certainly appreciate it. Thank you so very much for that.
KAYE: Good to see you.
MARTIN: And also, hey, you and I work together in Texas. I got to give a shout-out.
KAYE: Oh, all those years ago.
MARTIN: My school, Jack Yates High School, on the lines, playing for the state class 4-A championship tomorrow.
KAYE: Wow.
MARTIN: So good luck tomorrow. Bring the championship home, but more importantly, I want you to bring the championship home in the classroom after the basketball season is over.
KAYE: There you go.
MARTIN: So we'll focus on that as well.
KAYE: Good advice.
MARTIN: So, thank you so very much, folks. Please, have a great, great weekend. And don't forget, we focus on this whole issue of domestic violence. We cannot confront the issue of domestic violence unless we do when it comes to men.
Beginning on Monday, get five days of reporting on the money meltdown, that's changing your life from CNN, the only news network that does this.
Coming up next, Larry King.
