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Campbell Brown
Natasha Richardson Dies; President Obama Holds Town Hall Meeting
Aired March 18, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: And we have some breaking news to tell you about right now.
We have just received some very sad news. Tony Award-winning actress Natasha Richardson has died, after falling on a ski slope at a resort in Quebec, Canada, yesterday.
Richardson was the wife of actor Liam Neeson and the daughter of actress Vanessa Redgrave. The resort says, at first, it appeared that Richardson was not seriously hurt, but later said she was not feeling well. And Richardson was then admitted to two different Canadian hospitals, before being transferred earlier today to a hospital here in the U.S.
Our Brooke Anderson has been looking back at her career. But, before that, I want to just read a statement, a brief statement, we received from her family.
It says -- quote -- "Liam Neeson, his sons and the entire family are shocked and devastated by the tragic death of their beloved Natasha. They're profoundly grateful for the support, love and prayers of everyone and ask for privacy during this very difficult time."
Again, Brooke Anderson, our correspondent, looks back right now at the life and career of Natasha Richardson.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROOKE ANDERSON, CNN CULTURE AND ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Natasha Richardson was a London native who had entertainment in her blood. She hailed from an acting dynasty.
Her mother was the Oscar-winning actress Vanessa Redgrave, her father, the late director Tony Richardson, and her sister, actress Joely Richardson. She was also the niece of Lynn Redgrave.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE PARENT TRAP")
NATASHA RICHARDSON, ACTRESS: No, I absolutely love it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: The 1998 remake of "The Parent Trap" among the movies in her four-decade-long career in television and on the big screen. She appeared in a variety of other films, including "Patty Hearst," "Maid in Manhattan," "The Handmaid's Tale," and the film "Nell," where she co-starred with Liam Neeson, who became her husband in 1994.
Her stage resume was also lengthy in both Britain and the U.S.
RICHARDSON (singing): Maybe this time, for the first time...
ANDERSON: She won a Tony Award and several other honors in 1998 for playing Sally Bowles in the revival of the musical "Cabaret."
Natasha Richardson leaves behind her husband and two sons. She was 45.
Brooke Anderson, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Our thoughts, obviously, with the family of Natasha Richardson during this very tragic, terribly sad time. We're going to have much more on her and on this story a little bit later in the hour.
But we turn now to President Obama, to his town hall. He has been out of the road, a scene reminiscent of his days on the campaign trail, his opponent now obviously the recession and the furious nationwide backlash against the million-dollar bonuses just paid to executives at the bailed-out insurance giant AIG.
We want you to hear it for yourself. Here is some of that town hall meeting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want to say a few words at the top. And I'm going to start off just by talking about these AIG bonuses you've been hearing about.
Now, I know a lot of you are outraged about this. Rightfully so. I'm outraged, too. It's hard to understand that a company that's relying on extraordinary assistance from taxpayers to keep its doors open would be paying anybody lavish bonuses. It goes against our most basic sense of what's fair and what's right. It offends our values.
But these bonuses, outrageous as they are, are a symptom of a much larger problem. And that's the system and culture that made them possible. A culture where people made enormous sums of money taking irresponsible risks that have now put the entire economy at risk. So we're going to do everything we can to deal with these specific bonuses. And I know Washington's all in a tizzy and everybody's pointing fingers at each other and saying it's their fault, the Democrats fault, the Republicans fault.
Listen, I will take responsibility. I'm the president.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: So -- we didn't draft these contracts. And we've got a lot on our plate. But it is appropriate when you're in charge to make sure that stuff doesn't happen like this. So we're going to do everything we can to fix it. So for everybody in Washington who's busy scrambling trying to figure out how to blame somebody else, just go ahead and talk to me. Because it's my job to make sure that we fix these messes, even if I don't make them.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: So I'm absolutely committed to ensuring we have tools we need to prevent the kinds of abuses that sent AIG spiraling. And we've got to make sure we've got regulations that don't allow companies to take these huge risks that are so big that they can sort of hold us hostage. We can't let them fail because it would bring the entire banking system down and hurt a lot of innocent people. But, on the other hand, they act irresponsibly. We have to make sure we don't put ourselves in that position.
And I'm also committed to ensuring if we have to intervene again to prevent a bankruptcy that could cause a catastrophe for the whole financial system that we have some of the tools that a bankruptcy judge has, to help renegotiate contracts, to sell off insolvent parts of an institution, to protect the healthy parts, to protect depositors and creditors and other consumers.
We also want to do this because it serves the most important goal we have today, which is to rebuild our economy in a way that's consistent with our values. An economy ...
(APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: And I want to describe to you the kind of economy we want to build, an economy that rewards hard work and responsibility, not high-flying financial schemes.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: An economy that's built on a strong foundation but not one that's propelled by overheated housing markets and maxed out credit cards. In other words, we want to build an economy that offers prosperity for the long run. You remember that ad they used to have out there that said, "We earn money the old-fashioned way, we earn it"?
Well, we need to get back to that philosophy. Because that's what all of you do. You're out there earning a living. And we've got to reward people who are working hard, not the bubble and bust economy we've experienced in recent years.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: President Obama focused on the economy.
And, all this week, we are, too, "The Road to Rescue," CNN's commitment to a week of unprecedented reporting on the economy. We are exploring every aspect of what is being done to turn things around, arming you with information you need to know.
We have got a NO BIAS, NO BULL team of experts to break down politics and the money questions from tonight's presidential town hall. They're going to be with us after a very quick break. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We have a NO BIAS, NO BULL team of experts to break down politics and the money questions from tonight's presidential town hall. They have all been listening to it, in Washington, CNN contributor Stephen Hayes. He's a senior writer for the conservative- leaning "Weekly Standard." Also in Washington, our own senior political analyst Gloria Borger, and in Chicago tonight, CNN political analyst Roland Martin joining us as well.
And let me just go down -- go to all of you and get your general reaction of what you heard. It's rare that he -- he does something like this.
Gloria, what did you think?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I thought overall this is clearly his comfort venue, if you will. He was clearly having fun out there.
He was taking questions from the people who clearly like him, Campbell, but he got to make the points he needed to make, which is: The buck stops here. I'm the president of the United States. Complain about those AIG bonuses, because I'm mad about them, too, but I'm going to try and fix that. And, by the way, we still have to fix the economy. And, in the end, we're still going to have to continue to bail out the bad guys, the banks, because it's going to help all of us survive.
So, he made the points he needed to make.
BROWN: Steve, what did you think?
STEPHEN HAYES, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I thought there was a weird disconnect with him, frankly, being out on the road at a time when I think his economic team is in virtual meltdown right now.
You have serious questions being raised about the credibility of Timothy Geithner. I think it's becoming increasingly hard to see how Timothy Geithner survives this current issue with AIG and these bonuses and the various stories that you're getting from Democrats and from the CEO of AIG.
So, it seemed odd to me that the president was off, was on the road. He dealt with this at the top. As Gloria says, he tried to take responsibility for it, but then he followed that up immediately by saying, look, we didn't write these contracts. I didn't create this mess.
So, it felt a little bit like phony responsibility to me. BROWN: Yes, but, Roland, is he trying to change the subject?
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, of course. Smart politics is always, you change the story. So, certainly leaving Washington, D.C., a smart thing to do, because, frankly, if he had stayed in Washington, D.C., what would the story have been?
What about Senator Christopher Dodd? He said he put this provision in the bill to allow the bonuses, the whole process story, who knew what, the timeline. Now you have shifted. Now you have people asking very clear questions, the woman who worked with the bank talking about some of the problems that they have, the immigration question.
So, again, smart politics, you always get out of Washington, D.C.
HAYES: No, there is no question that the story remains Timothy Geithner, Christopher Dodd, Liddy, the CEO of AIG, Paul Kanjorski from Pennsylvania. This is the story.
(CROSSTALK)
HAYES: He can leave, he can talk about immigration, but this will be the story.
BORGER: But that's precisely why the president left Washington. He's very popular right now. He's depending on his popularity.
And he understands that this whole controversy over AIG and with his treasury secretary will really complicate his plans to end this financial crisis that we're in. He understands he's got some political problems. What better way than to go to the American public and make his case directly, without us being there, quite frankly.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Right, and focus on the budget, because he was -- it was really talking about the budget, the budget, this is why we're doing that, and that's what it was.
BROWN: All right, guys, you mentioned AIG, Chris Dodd. We're going to get on to all of that throughout the show tonight.
Steve Hayes, Gloria Borger, Roland Martin, we will be back in a moment.
There's another big story tonight, the explosion, as was mentioned there, the outrage over AIG bonuses. The company's new boss has some surprises for Congress today. That's next.
Later, as part of CNN's "Road to Rescue," coverage, Anderson Cooper taking the pulse of a city that could use any scrap of good news right now. He's just outside of Detroit in Warren, Michigan. And we're going to check in with him live as well.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: "Cutting Through The Bull" tonight, why is it so hard to get an honest answer from our politicians?
We learned today that a member of Congress has not been truthful with us about the AIG bonuses. And we have a pretty good idea now that some in the Obama administration's Treasury Department haven't been entirely forthcoming either.
Today here on CNN, after being outed by our own Dana Bash, Democratic Senator Chris Dodd admitted he was the one who put a loophole in President Obama's stimulus bill allowing AIG to go ahead with its multimillions in bonuses. Dodd only yesterday said he was not behind the loophole.
Why did Dodd do it? He says someone at the Treasury Department asked him to. He won't say who. And, big surprise, that person or persons at Treasury aren't coming clean.
So, we don't know who they are or how high up. What we do know is that we are still not getting straight answers from our leaders. You can be angry at AIG, but it looks as though there's plenty of blame to go around here.
President Obama has said: The buck stops with me on all of this.
If that is indeed the case, then, Mr. President, you have got to straighten out the mess at your Treasury Department. And the mess goes way beyond this AIG debacle. There are people already calling for Secretary Geithner to step down. Maybe he should. But who knows?
In fairness, it's impossible to evaluate him. He may well be the right man for the job. But he can't manage this crisis alone. And the fact that he still has almost no senior staff supporting him is pathetic, given the magnitude of our problems.
Treasury is supposed to be spearheading the rescue effort. And the top jobs there remain unfilled. Things are falling through the cracks right and left, and it has to stop.
If the problem is that Congress will not confirm your people, then you better become lobbyist in chief, get on the phone, go to Capitol Hill, do whatever it takes to get your team in place. Stop fighting a war without an army. The country is counting on you to lead us out of this crisis. We don't have time for you and your team to get caught up in the kinds of embarrassing distractions we saw today.
We will be back right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Now let's turn to breaking news on mortgages. And, for once, it is good news. That's right, good news to tell you about. Listen to what President Obama said just a few minutes ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) OBAMA: We are also taking unprecedented steps to unlock our frozen credit market, so families can get the loans they need to buy a home or a car. And businesses can pay for inventory or make payroll.
(APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: That's why earlier this week we took a sweeping step to free up loans for entrepreneurs, helping them start and grow the small businesses that employ half of our private sector workers. That's why - that's why we're creating a fund that will help support up to $1 trillion in loans, including auto loans and college loans.
That's why -- that's why we've launched a housing plan that will help responsible homeowners save money by refinancing their mortgage loans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So, good news for homeowners with good credit who want to refinance.
Here are the facts. The Federal Reserve announced today a plan to buy up to $300 billion of long-term government bonds and $750 billion in additional mortgage-backed securities guaranteed by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. That's expected to have an instant impact, sending mortgage rates down.
And chief business correspondent Ali Velshi is here to explain exactly how.
Ali, this is a big deal, isn't it?
ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And, in fact, it has had an instant impact.
Earlier today, the cost of a 30-year fixed-rate mortgage was about 5 percent. It's been hovering in that range for a while. After the Federal Reserve made its announcement midday that it's going to be investing more than $1 trillion in various types of loans, including buying back mortgages from Fannie and Freddie, take a look what happened. It dropped from 5 percent to 4.68 percent for a 30-year fixed mortgage for people with good credit.
That is a remarkable drop. And it had exactly the desired effect. The Fed puts money into the system, gives it to Fannie and Freddie. Fannie and Freddie can then buy loans from your bank, freeing up your bank to make more loans. So, whether you're looking to buy a house or you're looking to sell one, the price of that house has either gone up or the mortgage has gotten cheaper.
Here's what you described a few moments ago, $750 billion to mortgage-backed securities. That's Fannie and Freddie. That's the people who buy the bank -- the mortgages from your bank -- $350 billion into long-term treasuries. That puts $300 billion into the system. That's money that typically goes to larger companies, so a direct and immediate impact from the Fed. Through all the other noise that we have been talking about and hearing about, bottom line, Campbell, is that more than $1 trillion was put into the economic system today, and it has had an immediate, immediate effect.
Now, this is -- these are numbers that are being tracked by our friends over at Zillow.com. They track instant changes in mortgages. And they say the trend continues right now. A mortgage right now could even be less than 4.68 percent -- Campbell.
BROWN: All right, Ali Velshi for us tonight -- Ali, thanks.
And as part of CNN's "Road to Rescue" coverage, "360"'s Anderson Cooper has been traveling the country, tracking the impact of the economy city by city.
And I know, Anderson, you were watching the president's town hall meeting with some people in Warren, Michigan. This is just outside of Detroit, an incredibly hard-hit area. What did they think?
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. We were watching here in a bar in Warren, Michigan, right across from GM Tech Center, where obviously a lot of people in this area work. They're facing a lot of economic trouble there, no more overtime. They're only working four days a week now.
Let's talk to some of the patrons here in the bar just to find out what they thought of the president tonight.
What's your name?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Emily Lanzon (ph).
COOPER: You were listening to the town hall. What did you think of what the president had to say?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I liked what he had to say about the teachers and the schools here in Detroit, giving more training to the teachers and more focus on the parents as well. It's not just about the schools and the teachers.
COOPER: Do you want to see more money going to schools, especially in this area?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I think there's -- the Detroit public school system is not up to par at all.
COOPER: Well, thanks a lot. Appreciate it.
Want to go over here and talk to one other resident, Dawn (ph).
AIG is obviously a big issue around the country. It's a very big issue. It really strikes a chord here.
Dawn, what's your full name?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dawn Pico (ph).
COOPER: And you're -- you work in the insurance industry.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: But you think there's a real double standard between the way groups like AIG and banks are being treated and the way auto companies here have been treated.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anderson, I think that's an understatement. I truly believe there is a double standard.
You don't see people here in Detroit, Bob Nardelli, Mulally, Rick Wagoner, are they getting a $5 million bonus? There's a definite double standard.
COOPER: Do you think more money should have been given -- only about 10 percent of the money -- all the money that's been given to the auto company, it's about 10 percent of what's been given to banks. You think more, what, money should be given to auto companies?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think more should be given to the -- not only the auto companies, but American manufacturing as a whole. We're talking about putting people back to work to turn around this economic crisis. And those jobs need to be in America for America.
COOPER: Does it bother you that the government asked for contracts to be renegotiated with auto companies and unions, but it doesn't seem like there was a lot of...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where is that question for the banks? Yes.
COOPER: You think they should have renegotiated those bonus contracts?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely. Absolutely. Who doesn't? You would be hard-pressed to find somebody here in Detroit that doesn't think that.
COOPER: Yes, I have yet to hear anything who would argue the counter.
Appreciate it, Dawn. Thanks so much.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sure.
COOPER: We're going to be talking to a lot of people throughout this evening. We're going to be broadcasting from here tonight, Campbell, so we will see you at 10:00.
BROWN: Absolutely, "A.C. 360" at 10:00 -- Anderson with a lot more on the town hall meeting and the folks right outside of Detroit.
And there is a lot of breaking news tonight we are tracking, including the tragic news that actress Natasha Richardson has died. We're going to have an update for you coming up next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We have more for you on one of this hour's breaking stories, the tragic news that actress Natasha Richardson has died from injuries she suffered in a skiing accident on Monday. She fell and apparently suffered a head injury that wasn't apparent right away.
She went back to her hotel, we are told, but about an hour later complained she was feeling ill. She was rushed to hospitals, transferred to the U.S., but to no avail.
With me on the phone right now is Dr. Wendy Wright. And she is a neurosurgeon, as well as an assistant at Emory University Hospital in Atlanta.
Dr. Wright, thank you for joining us tonight. Appreciate it.
DR. WENDY WRIGHT, NEUROSURGEON: Sure. Thanks for having me.
BROWN: Let me just ask you generally about what we keep hearing, that she had this minor, apparently, a minor fall on the ski slopes, got up, seemed to be fine, and then, a short time after, started complaining of feeling bad.
I mean, is this normal? I mean, obviously, it's not normal, but it's something that's not unusual?
WRIGHT: Right.
When we -- again, not normal, but when we hear a story like this, we immediately think of a condition where there's bleeding in between the skull and the brain. It's fairly common, sometimes even in half the people, when they have a blood clot collected like this, to have what we call this lucid interval, where they're feeling fine for minutes or even up to a couple of hours, and, then, suddenly, they will start to have headache or sleepiness or dizziness, some type of neurologic problem, as the pressure from that blood clot builds up.
And, once the pressure builds up, it can be rapidly fatal.
BROWN: And then, as we understand it, after a period time, as you say, she did feel an intense pain and then went to the hospital. And that would be typical in this sort of situation, right?
WRIGHT: Exactly.
And even a seemingly minor trauma that doesn't show any bruising or cuts to the outside of the head, but just knowing that someone has had a fall of some sort would prompt a doctor to rapidly want to get a CAT scan to look for blood clot like this, hopefully rapidly get someone to surgery to relieve the buildup pressure, but sometimes, even by then, it's just too late.
BROWN: And, Dr. Wright, I know she was at a couple of hospitals in Canada before she was transferred to the U.S. Medically, is there anything that could have been done at that point? WRIGHT: Well, it's difficult to tell.
If the pressure had built up to the point where the brain had already been squeezed tightly up against the skull or even pushed out through the base of the skull, by the time she got to the first hospital, probably, all hope had been lost.
Generally speaking, the focus of treating this problem is -- if this, in fact, was the problem, because we have very little information. But if this was the problem, the focus is to try to get that blood clot out before huge parts of the brain are damaged or important parts of the brain, for example, the ones that keep us conscious and out of coma are damaged.
BROWN: Well, Dr. Wright, we do appreciate your time and trying to enlighten us and given what we know which, as you said, very little information to go on at this stage. We appreciate your time tonight. Thanks so much.
WRIGHT: Thank you. Thank you very much.
BROWN: And when we come back, the man who runs insurance giant AIG, another big story. He was on Capitol Hill today, trying to explain those big bonuses, and he got clobbered by angry lawmakers. We'll walk you through it. That's when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: He didn't cause the near collapse of AIG, but the man in charge now sure must have felt like a human punching bag after a day of testifying before Congress about those big bonuses paid out by the insurance giant we are all bailing out.
CEO Edward Liddy got done only about an hour ago, and he had a few surprises for the committee. We've got senior congressional correspondent Dana Bash to tell us about it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN SR. CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): AIG's chief executive came to Congress and said he gets the message.
EDWARD LIDDY, CEO, AIG: We've heard the American people loudly and clearly these past few days. The payment of large bonuses to people in the very unit that caused so much of AIG's financial trouble does not sit well with the American taxpayer in any way, shape or form.
BASH: Edward Liddy also came armed with a compromise.
LIDDY: I've asked the employees of AIG financial products to step up and do the right thing. Specifically, I've asked those who received retention payments in excess of $100,000 or more to return at least half of those payments.
BASH: In fact, Liddy said some AIG executives have already given back their bonuses. The Democratic chairman demanded the names of those who have not.
REP. BARNEY FRANK (D-MA), FINANCIAL SERVICES CHAIRMAN: Submit those names without restriction and if you feel unable to do that, then I will ask the committee to subpoena them.
BASH: Liddy said he was reluctant.
LIDDY: I'm just really concerned about the safety of our people.
BASH: He read some of the threats.
LIDDY: All the executives and their families should be executed with piano wire around their necks. My greatest hope if the government can't do this properly, we, the people, will take it in our own hands and see that justice is done.
BASH: Liddy argued the bonuses were not for performance but to retain employees needed to turn the company around. But it was revealed that several AIG executives actually quit after collecting their bonuses. So lawmakers weren't buying it and told him to give all the bonus cash back.
REP. GARY ACKERMAN (D), NEW YORK: Cut your losses in financial terms. It just ain't worth it. You think you could consider doing that?
LIDDY: That's what I've attempted to set in motion this morning.
BASH: Again, not enough.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anybody you're going to fire next week or next month or three months from now?
LIDDY: No, let me tell you what we've tried to do. We'd like those people -- each one has a book of business. There are 22 or 24 separate books of business. Their job either individually or in tandem is to wind that book of business down.
BASH: The jam-packed hearing had huge lines to get in. A big audience and lawmakers knew it.
REP. PAUL HODGES (D), NEW HAMPSHIRE: As far as the American people are concerned, I think AIG now stands for arrogance, incompetence and greed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have such abuse here, don't even think about coming up here looking for a bailout. That's a God damn disgrace.
BASH (on camera): Now Congress is under a lot of pressure to go beyond that outrage and actually do something about this. So the House of Representatives will take up a measure on Thursday that imposes a 90 percent tax effectively stripping most bonuses from AIG executives.
Dana Bash, CNN, Capitol Hill. (END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: President Obama began tonight's town hall meeting in California saying how it was nice to get out of Washington, but he could not get away from the AIG mess and he didn't try to addressing the issue almost right away. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: I know a lot of you are outraged about this. Rightfully so, I'm outraged, too. It's hard to understand that a company that's relying on extraordinary assistance from taxpayers to keep its doors open would be paying anybody lavish bonuses. It goes against our most basic sense of what's fair and what's right. It offends our values.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Back again to talk about this, we've got Roland Martin, Gloria Borger. And joining us for the conversation, economist and author "Stephen Leeb, and his latest book is called "Game Over: How You Can Prosper in a Shattered Economy."
Gloria, let me start with you today. We are learning that the Treasury Department had a hand in ensuring that those AIG bonuses would be paid out. This does not look good for the administration.
BORGER: Right. I mean, we heard that today from Senator Dodd who had proposed a way in the stimulus package to make sure that these folks wouldn't get their bonuses and it had been amended in the 11th hour. And today, he told us that treasury was involved in that.
Treasury has some explaining to do about that. We don't know how high up that decision was made. But I do think that the big problem for the administration now is not only Timothy Geithner's problems, but also, that this complicates the financial bailout for them. They're going to have to go to the private sector. They're trying to do these public/private partnerships.
Well, the private sector may be a little shy right now about doing business with the government. And that's going to hurt them.
BROWN: A good point, Stephen.
STEPHEN LEEB, LEEB CAPITAL MANAGEMENT: I think it is the point. I mean, the $165 million, it's disgraceful. No one would deny that it's disgraceful, but it's a small bit of change compared to what they're dealing with.
I mean, just as an example, Campbell, we got a memo from the chief of Citigroup last week. And he said he had $80 billion in equity. Great. He also has $300 billion in assets that are guaranteed by the government.
Take out those $300 billion, Citigroup's broke three times over. That's a problem that is literally 1,800 times larger than $165 million. BROWN: Here's the problem, though, is that people understand what's going on with this AIG story. It's not that complicated. I mean, we all get it. It provokes enormous anger.
LEEB: It does.
BROWN: And that we're all talking about it. The president is talking about it. The Congress is talking about it. It becomes a massive distraction and prevents them from dealing with anything else.
LEEB: It does. And it's just the politics of the situation. You went back to Bernanke's interview recently, like on "60 minutes," and he said the only thing that can stop us from solving this problem is a lack of political will.
Well, we're getting this lack of political will in spades. I mean, this is a political crisis. We've created the public anger. We could have sort of filed this on page ten. Yes, it's a catastrophe. But bonuses have been paid out to Wall Street for the last decade.
BROWN: Here's the problem, though, Roland.
MARTIN: But Campbell --
BROWN: I mean, I think Stephen has a good point here. Maybe it is small in the greater scheme of things.
LEEB: Well, it's tiny, it's not even a rounding error.
BROWN: But it's happening.
LEEB: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Campbell --
BROWN: And it's happening and the Treasury Department is behind it --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right --
MARTIN: Campbell, the issue -- the issue has nothing to do with how small it is. It's that wonderful phrase "being asleep at the wheel."
The administration, in terms of running for office, kept talking about how the Bush administration, they were not minding the store, they were not paying attention. Congress was saying the exact same thing, Democratic leaders.
So here all of a sudden, you have people who are saying, we're minding the store. We're going to be look out for you. We're going to make sure these folks are not paying themselves, and then they also failed. Now, we hear the treasury said, "please don't do it." Dodd, head of the banking committee, agreed with it and so they all look like they were asleep at the wheel. And so you can't instill confidence in the American people that we're looking out for your money if you can't even get rid of bonuses. That's the real issue here.
LEEB: That's ridiculous. I mean, there were laws in place and we actually signed off on the stimulus package that basically insured these bonuses. Yes, they're a disgrace --
BORGER: Right.
MARTIN: That was my point.
LEEB: We've been running this economy in a disgraceful way for the last ten years. Let's get past it and let's fix it.
BORGER: But this administration campaigned on accountability, as Roland was saying. And I was talking to a senior adviser at the White House. They're so angry about this right now, because they understand what you're saying, that it's going to get in the way of them to do what they need to do. And that's why --
LEEB: Totally.
BORGER: That's why you saw President Obama tonight at this town hall meeting making the case that we have to bail out the bad guys, because it's in our own self-interest.
BROWN: But Gloria --
BORGER: And that's the case he's got to make.
BROWN: Hold on, Stephen.
Gloria, isn't -- I mean, here's the problem, though. It's their own fault.
BORGER: Yes.
BROWN: There's no one -- Geithner has no staff at the Treasury Department --
BORGER: Exactly.
BROWN: -- for whatever reason.
BORGER: And he was slow, Campbell, in getting out his sort of pre-bank bailout plan. Remember that, he was not --
BROWN: So, but it doesn't really matter what the president says if they can't even get the people together necessary in order to address these problems. I mean, when does this reach a point where -- I mean, I can't believe it. As Stephen Hayes said, people are calling for Geithner to step down. He does -- hasn't even hired a staff yet. MARTIN: Look, first of all, that's the last thing in the world that you're going to see happen because, look, that's going to throw this thing into even greater turmoil. But even Congress, they're sitting here looking like hypocrites up there...
BORGER: Right.
MARTIN: ... you know, railing against the AIG CEO, when frankly they also screwed up in this. And so, again, what Obama said today was, all the finger pointing, go ahead and point it all at me, the buck stops here. I think what he's trying to do is certainly go to the next step, looking forward. You can't change the story, but accept responsibility.
BROWN: But, Stephen, we all agree we need to get to the next step but how do we do that when the administration can't function?
LEEB: Well, I'll tell you, one thing that you're seeing. One thing that you're seeing is the fed is taking the next step for us. If they have to, what the fed said today, they'll take these toxic assets on their own balance sheet and just print money. And that's why you saw gold boom up about $50, $60 from its low today, because on a worst case basis, we can't let this economy fail.
If Washington is in such shambles and so stupid -- I hate to use the word -- that they can't get their political act together, well, then, it will be up to Ben Bernanke to just print however much money we need and there goes our currency.
BORGER: You know, Washington is very good at looking for and finding scapegoats.
MARTIN: Right.
BORGER: And maybe they'll scapegoat Tim Geithner, I mean, who knows in all of this.
LEEB: How about Paulson? Who let Lehman fail?
BORGER: And how about -- OK, fine, all of those folks. But the people I'm talking to, both at treasury and the White House, one White House adviser said to me on the economy, it's like we're painting blindfolded. Nothing like this has ever been done before and so we're trying to feel our way. And this mess with these bonuses complicates it.
LEEB: Gloria, all the more reason for these politicians to back- page this bonus issue and get real.
BORGER: Right.
LEEB: You've got a $1 trillion problem.
BORGER: I agree, but politicians --
BROWN: They are politicians and they've got to respond to the American people. I mean, that's politics.
LEEB: Yes, but the American people want to educate their kids. And the politicians, sooner or later, are going to realize that if they don't do the right thing, they're not going to be educating their own kids.
MARTIN: But Stephen, you've got to accept the reality that the American people also are outraged here as well. It might seem small, but they have a problem, people who got us in this situation making money off of it. So the people are outraged.
BORGER: And this is -- this is where President Obama's popularity comes in because he can dip into his over 60 percent. He's a popular president. Folks are giving him the benefit of the doubt. That's why he said today, it's my responsibility, those bonuses, and it's also my responsibility to fix the mess.
BROWN: He is going to be dipping into that popularity for quite a while.
OK, guys. Stephen, to Gloria and Roland, many thanks for a great discussion.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks, Campbell.
BROWN: We'll be right back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: CNN is covering every angle of the money meltdown with our week-long series "Road to Rescue." Tonight, you, like millions of others, might be on Facebook. But do you know how Facebook could change your financial future? That is ahead. But first, Gary Tuchman joining us with "The Briefing" -- Gary.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Campbell. Repeating tonight's very sad breaking news, Natasha Richardson has died.
A family spokesman released a statement tonight, saying, "Liam Neeson, his sons, and the entire family are shocked and devastated by the tragic death of their beloved Natasha. They're profoundly grateful for the support, love and prayers of everyone and ask for privacy during this very difficult time."
Ms. Richardson fell on a ski slope in Canada Monday afternoon. Just an hour later, she complained of a headache and was rushed to a hospital. Her family flew her back to New York where she died today at the age of 45. So sad.
In other news, the Pentagon says it will phase out its controversial stop loss program. That's the practice of involuntarily holding troops beyond the end of their enlistments. Defense Secretary Robert Gates says incentives will be offered to encourage soldiers to extend their service. A fire sent black smoke sky high over central London this afternoon. The fire was in a building about a half mile from St. Paul's Cathedral. No injuries are reported.
And in California, the mother of octuplets brought two of her babies home from the hospital late yesterday. Nadya Suleman had to make her way through a crowd of reporters as she arrived with the babies named Noah Angel and Isaiah Angel at her new home near Los Angeles.
And, Campbell, I feel so badly for Liam Neeson and those two young boys. It's so sad.
BROWN: Yes. I know. Gary Tuchman on the story we've been covering throughout the night for you -- Gary, appreciate that.
As we said earlier, we are calling our coverage this week "Road to Rescue, a CNN Survival Guide." If you want to know about survival, talk to the people who live in the Detroit area. First, in unemployment, among the top ten in foreclosures. "AC 360"'s Anderson Cooper is there tonight live, in the shadow of the Motor City, Warren, Michigan.
And, Anderson, what are you finding?
COOPER: You know, there's a lot of skepticism here, a lot of anger. You know, around the country, people are angry about these AIG bonuses. But in Detroit, this really cuts -- really cuts right to the bone.
This is a place where the unions and automobile companies have renegotiated contracts, often very tough renegotiations. Those were renegotiations demanded by the federal government. And yet people here say, look, they don't see the same level of concern over contracts in these banking companies in a company like AIG. So there's a lot of skepticism about what they're seeing and what they're hearing out of Washington right now, Campbell.
BROWN: All right, Anderson is going to have much more as we said at 10:00 tonight, "AC 360." And we'll see you then.
"LARRY KING LIVE" at the top of the hour. Tonight's breaking news has shaken up his plans for tonight.
Larry, tell us what you're doing.
LARRY KING, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, we're scrambling, moving things around. We'll have the very latest on actress Natasha Richardson. We got word just an hour ago that she died.
We've had some acquaintances. Joan Rivers is one of them. She'll be here. We'll sort out exactly what happened. A top brain surgeon will be aboard as well.
What happened to a 45-year-old actress, mother and wife of Liam Neeson? Next on "LARRY KING LIVE," Campbell. BROWN: All right, Larry, we'll see you shortly.
CNN is covering every angle of the money meltdown with our week- long series "Road to Rescue." Next, one of the people with the power to change America and your financial future through social networking. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: In this money meltdown, knowledge is power. The more information you have, the more power you have over your family's future.
This Friday, our "Road to Rescue" coverage includes top financial expert Suze Orman. Record a question now, and send it via the iReport link on CNN.com/campbell, then watch NO BIAS, NO BULL this Friday, and you will see Suze and get your question answered.
In our "Road to Rescue" CNN survival guide, again, we're not just reporting what's wrong with the economy, we are looking at some of the people who have solutions -- giants of the business world who can actually help turn things around.
Tonight, one CEO who has the power to change the way America works and the networks. 24-year-old Mark Zuckerberg created Facebook, the social network with more than 175 million members, and CNN chief business correspondent Ali Velshi has his story tonight -- Ali.
VELSHI: Hey, Campbell. This is an interesting story.
Mark Zuckerberg, lore (ph) has it that he's 24 years old. Lore has it that when he was at Harvard in his dorm room, he came up with the idea for Facebook with two of his roommates. I'm not entirely sure that's how it all works, but it's an excellent story.
But as you said, 175 million members and social networking has really become certainly for a younger generation a predominant way to communicate with people. Listen to Mark Zuckerberg in his own words.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK ZUCKERBERG, FACEBOOK FOUNDER, CEO: We believe, really deeply that if people are sharing more, then the world will be a more open place where people can understand what's going on with the people around them. And that's really what we want to get towards.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And, Ali, how much power can a site where people post that they're about to take a shower or poke their friends really have in this economy?
VELSHI: Right, poking is like sort of a way to just send a message to somebody without actually having any contents in the message. And certainly there are all sorts of little status updates on Facebook that don't mean anything. But the world has changed and with a 175 members, that means anybody can have an instant network. And in a world where we've lost more than four million jobs, I think that's what becomes really important.
We spoke to somebody, Owen Thompson, from Valley Wag. Valley Wag covers the Internet. Here's how he describes it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OWEN THOMPSON, VALLEYWAG.COM: What's different in the way people use, say, Facebook for a job search is that they're trying to find out about the jobs that aren't even listed anywhere. They're not -- you know, it's not where you find a help wanted ad, it's where you hear about opportunities that aren't so obvious.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: All right. So the idea is you've got yourself a network. Now people also don't keep information to themselves. You use the example of posting a status update that you're going for a shower. That would normally have been information you just keep for those around you, but now people post things.
So we talked to Sree Sreenivasan from Columbia University about how that has -- the impact that has on the job search. There's no shame now to keeping the idea that you've lost a job to yourself. Listen to Sree.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SREE SREENIVASAN, COLUMBIA JOURNALISM SCHOOL: You're seeing people as soon as they're laid off, the first thing they'll do is, as they're cleaning out their desk, they'll go to their Facebook page and post that their status -- their status is, just been laid off. Help, I've been laid off, looking for work. I've been laid off. Do you know anybody who's looking to hire in this specific industry?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: But does that really work? You know, no more bearing it all in silence, getting out there and putting the word out, does it work?
VELSHI: Yes, it absolutely does. First of all, I use Facebook a lot for work to get answers from people about what they think about the stories I'm working on. But today, this afternoon, I mentioned -- I put it out there. I said has anybody out there got a job from Facebook or knows somebody who has? Listen to the responses I got.
Zandra in New York says: "It helped my boyfriend connect with a former college roommate that turned into a freelance situation. So that's the start."
We got another message from Martin in Ontario. He says: "We've hired two new employees in the past few months who we would not have found if not for Facebook." I got many, many messages. Pal in Omaha says: "My friend told me of a position that was opening within his company and went for it. I was hired."
Campbell, I got dozens of those. I mean, I don't have that big of a Facebook site. So that's the issue with Facebook. Now in response (ph) to other things, there are other social networking sites out there. Some of them are not as social as Facebook.
LinkedIn has more than 35 million members and they call it a professional networking site. But Mark Zuckerberg kicked this off for us and I think that's a big deal. For people looking for a job, social networking could be a very, very big part of their future, Campbell.
BROWN: All right, Ali. So if you are watching this and looking for a job and aren't part of an Internet social network, may be worth exploring. It could help you in your job search.
Many thanks to Ali Velshi for that report. Tomorrow, he's going to continue our series on people with the "Power to Change."
And no surprise, CNN is on Facebook. To see more from stories like this from CNN fans or to become a fan yourself, go to facebook.com/cnn.
As we have told you, this week we are focusing CNN's worldwide resources on the global money meltdown and on the "Road to Rescue." Can you name the fastest growing economy in the world? I guarantee you'll be surprised by the answer. I was.
So where does the United States rank? You'll be surprised by that answer too. We're going to have it for you right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Before the break, we asked you to name the fastest growing economy in the world. Number one last year, Azerbaijan, at 15.6 percent. The former Soviet Republic has huge energy reserves.
Number two, Angola, at 15.1 percent. Angola rebuilding after the end of a long civil war.
Number three, Macau, at 15 percent. Macau is a special administrative region in China. Hong Kong is the other one.
The United States not in the top ten, not in the top 100 -- 181st with a growth rate of 1.4 percent.
Stay with CNN all this week, continuing coverage of the "Road to Rescue."
That does it for us tonight. "LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.
