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Campbell Brown
Mass Killer's Message; President Obama Reaches Out to Muslim World
Aired April 06, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everyone.
Have you seen the promo since it was announced that I would be filling in for Campbell Brown? We have been saying that no topic is off limits.
Two, that always seems to get folks fired up, religion and politics, those two issues. And we're dealing with both now that President Obama has given an important speech in Turkey. And it's fitting tonight we're launching a new series, "Test of Faith," looking at the real role it's playing in so many lives.
Plus, we're taking your phone calls at 1-877-NO-BULL-0. That's 1-877-662-8550. You can also e-mail me at Roland@CNN.com or find me on Twitter as well as Facebook.
Now, folks, we start with breaking news tonight, what appears to be a message from a mass killer. Today, a CNN affiliate received a letter containing photographs and a message apparently sent by the man who killed 13 people and himself on Friday at an immigrant service center in Binghamton, New York.
Our Randi Kaye is here with what they found.
Now, Randi, a stunning story. What about this package all of a sudden shows up?
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's the interesting news of the day, Roland.
We are getting some clues finally -- 13 people died last Friday in that shooting along with the gunman, which has left investigators wondering why. Why did a 41-year-old man open fire on a group of people taking a class to learn English as a second language?
Well, today, in the form of a letter, we may be getting our first clues as to his motive.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KAYE (voice-over): It came in a simple white envelope addressed to a Binghamton, New York, television station. Police are testing its authenticity, but the contents are disturbing.
It included pictures of Jiverly Wong holding weapons, also his driver's license and the registration for his guns. The station's news director opened it.
RON LOMBARD, NEWS DIRECTOR, NEWS 10 NOW: A moment of panic. I have been in this business for about 30 years now. I have never experienced something quite like that. I think realizing what we apparently have in our hands was kind of scary, actually, and understanding the gravity of it as I started reading through the letter.
KAYE: Police were called and have retrieved the letter from the station. The letter is postmarked April 3, which is last Friday, the day of the shooting.
But here's the really interesting note. The letter, itself, is dated March 18, which was two weeks before the shooting. So, this may be another sign for police this was premeditated, that in addition to him parking his car blocking the exit of the building where the shooting took place.
Reading the letter, it appears that Wong, if he indeed wrote it, may have been delusional and paranoid. He says police for years have been entering his room and watching him sleep. He even says they touched him while he slept and stole money from his wallet.
In the letter, the writer identifies himself as Wong. He writes, "I am Jiverly Wong, shooting the people." Why did he do it? The writer says he cannot accept his -- quote -- "poor life" and "will cut my poor life," adding "At least two people with me go to return to the dust of earth."
The letter writer does not apologize, except for his English. He writes: "I am sorry. I know a little English."
In a chilling closing, the letter ends with, "You have a nice day."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAYE: I spoke with a forensic psychologist about this letter. Kris Mohandie has studied mass murderers. And he told this letter is -- quote -- "textbook."
He says the fact that Wong didn't want to die alone and wanted to take people with him, as he says in the letter, gave him the power he lacked in his life that he just could not accept. He says the pictures of Wong holding his weapons were included with the letter and his attire shows he identifies with a warrior mentality.
And just the mere fact he sent this letter seems to indicate at least to our expert that he wanted others to know that he was suffering.
MARTIN: Still shocking and disturbing...
(CROSSTALK)
KAYE: Absolutely. MARTIN: Randi, thanks a bunch. We certainly it.
Folks, now to President Barack Obama as he offers a different kind of foreign exchange, extending an olive branch, a huge olive branch, to the Muslim community in Ankara, Turkey. The president promised to listen, to build bridges, and to find common ground.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So let me say this as clearly as I can: The United States is not, and will never be, at war with Islam.
(APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: In fact, our partnership with the Muslim world is critical not just in rolling back the violent ideologies that people of all faiths reject.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: Let's bring in our national political correspondent, Jessica Yellin.
Now, Jessica, the president offered a forceful message. I don't think a lot of people realize, though, how important Turkey is to the national interests of the United States.
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Turkey is vital to the U.S. national interests. It's important strategically and it's important symbolically.
And let me tell you, if we can take a look at the map of Turkey, which we have for a moment, look at where it's located, borders Syria, Iraq, and Iran. All three are nations that the U.S. could use help mediating relations with.
It was the relationship with Iraq, the invasion of Iraq, that really turned the relationship with Turkey very frosty. But, beyond that, Roland, there's also symbolic significance. This is an overwhelmingly Muslim country, as you well know, but it's also a country that's a secular democracy.
And, so, it's a message that Islam and democracy can co-exist. It's a country in which there is a NATO -- they're a member of NATO, the only Muslim nation. And finally the U.S. has a base there. So it's key that the U.S. rebuild this relationship and that's why President Obama was there.
MARTIN: So, even though it's 99.8 percent Muslim, it's still a secular government. That's an important distinction.
YELLIN: It really is, because the message here -- and this goes to what President Obama was saying today -- is that Islam is part of the U.S.
Islam -- he said at one point, Roland, "I have Muslim relatives." That's something that was unthinkable during the campaign.
MARTIN: Right.
YELLIN: He reminded folks of that the overarching message is that Islam is not the enemy of the United States. And I will tell you, he's very popular there. When President Obama was elected, a Turkish paper reported that one county sacrificed 44 sheep in his honor.
MARTIN: Wow.
YELLIN: It was a big shout-out.
(LAUGHTER)
MARTIN: Well, Jessica, we certainly appreciate it. And of course we will be seeing you later in the show.
Now, folks we're just getting started on this topic. Up next, we're breaking down the president's message. Is he really shattering barriers or does it just seem that way? We're already hearing from you.
Vim (ph) writes -- quote -- "This idea that Obama is a Muslim just won't go away. As enlightened as many of us think we are, it will still be a long time before most Americans will feel comfortable with a person of Islamic faith in high office."
Do you agree or disagree? Join the conversation right now by calling 1-877-NO-BULL-0. That's 1-877-662-8550. Or weigh by e-mail, Twitter, as well as Facebook -- back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: President Barack Obama is in Turkey tonight in the homestretch of his eight-day diplomatic mission, a foreign exchange of ideas with world leaders, and the chance to declare an end to what he calls American arrogance.
Today, he specifically reached out to people around the world who follow the teachings of Islam. But the question is, did it make a difference?
Let's bring in Dana Perino.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Our focus will be on what we can do, in partnership with people across the Muslim world, to advance our common hopes and our common dreams. And when people look back on this time, let it be said of America that we extended the hand of friendship to all people.
There's an old Turkish proverb: "You cannot put out fire with flames." America knows this. Turkey knows this. There's some who must be met by force, they will not compromise. But force alone cannot solve our problems. (END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: Well, the question, folks, did it make a difference in terms of Obama's speech?
Let's bring in Dana Perino, a former White House press secretary under President George W. Bush, and, from Istanbul, Reza Aslan, whose latest book, "How to Win a Cosmic War: God, Globalization, and the End of the War on Terror," hits bookstores this month.
Now, Reza, you're in Istanbul. Give us a sense of the reaction of the folks there in Turkey to the president's speech.
REZA ASLAN, AUTHOR, "HOW TO WIN A COSMIC WAR: GOD, GLOBALIZATION, AND THE END OF THE WAR ON TERROR": The reaction here in Turkey has been enormously positive, as has been the reaction across Europe.
I think that there's a real excitement here that the U.S. and Turkey can renew its alliance. I mean, this is a very important relationship for the United States, as you know, Roland. I mean, Turkey is not just a modern secular moderate Muslim-majority state. It has very close ties to Israel, close ties to Europe.
And in many ways it's really the most important relationship that the United States has to any Muslim nation. And I think Barack Obama is here to really emphasize that fact.
MARTIN: Now, Dana, some folks are taking the speech as a direct swipe at your former boss.
How did you read his speech? Did you sense it was an attack on Bush or simply Obama stating his case?
DANA PERINO, FORMER GEORGE W. BUSH WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I think that, in the first few months of the new administration, that you're going to have a lot of people trying to compare things.
But just in listening to that speech, I actually think that, if you looked at some of President Bush's speech about our relationship with Turkey or with the Muslim world, that the language was very, very similar.
Starting right after September 11, one of the president's first stops was at the Islamic Center of Washington. And he always worked to establish a framework to make sure that people understood that this war we were fighting was against violent extremists and not against mainstream Muslim religion.
He always invited Muslim clerics and scholars to the White House every year for the Iftar dinner, and on and on. So, I that there's -- the comparisons are going to be natural. But I think if people actually took time to look at the actual words President Bush used, they would see that the words really weren't that different.
And it was President Bush who supported Turkey being in NATO. And, in fact, if you look back to the past couple of years, as Turkey was really fighting against the PKK, it was President Bush that backed them up on that.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Hey, Reza, I want you to pick up on that, because Dana laid out that there's not much difference in terms of what they said. Yet, the reaction of the people, though, to Bush is far different to the reaction to Obama.
So, you know, put a pin on that. Exactly what is the difference between the two?
ASLAN: Well, look, I mean, the Muslim world, you know, they're not children. They understand when they're being talked down to and when they're being spoken to with respect and with admiration.
And the fact is, is that despite President Bush's, you know, comments about, you know, we're not at war with Islam, and that Islam means peace, the sort of very religiously polarizing rhetoric and the clash of civilizations, you're either with us or you're with the terrorists, rhetoric that was so much a part of the mentality of the Bush administration, has left a really bad taste in the mouth of a lot of people, and especially here in Turkey.
As you know, until a couple of years ago, I think, maybe even up to last year, it was upwards of 90 percent of Turks had an unfavorable rating of the United States, which is astonishing for a country that should be a natural ally to -- for the United States.
And, in any case, Roland, you know, if the Bush administration had done a better job with imparting at least a message of respect and friendship to the Muslim world, chances are, Obama would not have to have started his speech by declaring flat-out we are not at war with Islam.
MARTIN: Hey, Dana, do you also think that one of the issues here is that, of course, we went into Iraq? A lot of people say that that was a question of invading a Muslim country.
That also plays a difference here...
PERINO: Sure. Of course, I think Iraq obviously is playing a big role in this discussion. And it will be something that people -- scholars will have to look back on. And historians will decide whether or not it was the right thing to do. I think it was the right thing to do.
I think that Iraq is showing that it can be a democracy in the heart of the Middle East. Look, Turkey I think is one of these countries that could use a little bit of -- well, people in America need to understand it better. And I think you did a good job of having Jessica Yellin on explaining the strategical importance of it.
But I think that people need to take a step back. And I wish you would have been able to try to find some video of President Bush's speeches, because the tone is the same.
I can't explain to you why the appeal is different, when the language is the same.
MARTIN: Right.
PERINO: That's just the way it is. And there's really -- there's nothing I can do about that now.
I can just tell you that, in his heart, President Bush respected all religions, and especially Islam. He went out of his way to try to make that clear.
MARTIN: Hey, Reza, look, a speech is one thing.
But it's all a matter of results. And, so, what should President Obama expect in terms of results as a result of this outreach that he's been providing with the speech today, but also in other kind of areas?
ASLAN: Yes, you said it. Actions speak louder than words, which I think, again, goes back to the problem that Turkey and a lot of the Muslim world had with President Bush.
This is what Obama wants from Turkey. He wants first and foremost help with the Israeli-Palestinian crisis. Turkey has the era of Hamas and it's something important for the United States. He also wants Turkey to play a mediating role with Iran, especially now that Obama is reaching out to Iran, working on -- on trying to deal with Iran's nuclear ambitions.
But chief among Obama's desires for Turkey is help in Afghanistan. Turkey has troops in Afghanistan now. And I think Obama wants more help from Turkey.
MARTIN: Right.
ASLAN: The reverse of that, I should say, Turkey...
MARTIN: Real quick. Real quick.
ASLAN: ... wants from Obama a very clear, clear, strong statement of support for Turkey to join the E.U.
MARTIN: Hey, Dana, about 20 seconds. What do we need in return?
PERINO: Well, I think that, look, I applaud us wanting to have better relations with Turkey. But I don't think that they could have gotten all that much better.
But if the perception is that the relationships are going to better now, but the policy remains the same, then I think that, at the end of the year, we can stack up those decisions and see which -- who had the right approach. And I think that you will find that their approaches are actually going to be very similar.
MARTIN: Reza in Istanbul, Dana in D.C., we certainly appreciate it. Thank you so very much. Well, folks for us, the timing seems perfect, as we launch a new series this week, "Test of Faith." We will explore a variety of hot- button issues, where spirituality, politics, and culture all intersect.
And we're hearing from you tonight on another hot-button issue, President Obama's decision to allow pictures to be taken as the caskets of troops lost on the battlefield come home.
Dustin writes -- quote -- "If the families agree, I believe they should be allowed access, if only to remind the average American that my brothers and sisters who died in this war are not a statistic. Their sacrifice was real and it was great."
Well, not everyone agrees. Call me now, 1-877-NO-BULL-0. That's 1-877-662-8550. Or e-mail me at Roland@CNN.com. I'm also on Twitter and Facebook.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: Well, folks, as a devout Christian and the husband of an ordained ministry, my faith is not part of who I am, but the essence of who I am.
That's why I'm passionate about a series we're launching this week called "Test of Faith."
In the days leading up to Easter and Passover, we will be talking with people of many faiths about how they live their beliefs. Now, I make no bones about my faith, but it doesn't I don't respect other religions.
Look, I don't anyone telling me not to praise Jesus. And I won't condemn someone who is Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist or anything else. That's why it was disturbing to me read a new poll showing that 48 percent of Americans don't trust our Muslim allies.
So what's the real deal here?
Well, that's why I want to turn to our great panel here, first off, Irshad Manji, who is here in the studio. Also, we have Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, who is going be up in a moment. We have some issues with the satellite. And also Albert Mohler Jr., president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky.
Also, Irshad, you're director of Moral Courage Project at New York University, and also senior fellow at the European Foundation For Democracy.
And, so, I want to go to Al first with a question.
And, Al, this poll is pretty interesting, 48 percent of the people not trusting our Muslim allies. Is this because we're frankly fighting two wars in Muslim countries or is it a matter of frankly Americans having no clue about Muslims and then just operating off of ignorance and their own views, and not facts? REV. ALBERT MOHLER, SOUTHERN BAPTIST SEMINARY: Well, I think one of the facts that certainly is in the minds of many Americans is that we're engaged in something of a civilizational conflict here. And Islam does play a part.
I think President Obama rightly said that the United States is not at war with Islam. I think that's a very helpful clarification. But you can't take Islam out of the whole civilizational struggle we're in, not only in the war on terror, but, frankly, going back for centuries, coming up with a definition of what a good civilization would look like and how a society ought to be arranged.
There are significant differences between the classical Muslim answer to that question and the Western answer to the question. So, I think part of this is just based in trying to figure out what exactly we are up against in this modern day. And in terms of our currently situation, Islam is playing a big part.
You have got growing Islamic minorities in much of Western Europe. You have increasing numbers of Muslims playing a public role in the United States. You have a lot of people are asking some very basic questions. And so we don't do truth by poll. The fact is that a large number of Americans probably don't know even much of what we're talking about here.
MARTIN: I also want to bring in right now Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, author of "The Kosher Sutra." He joins us now by satellite. And we appreciate it.
But, Irshad, according to a recent "Washington Post" poll -- this is interesting -- most Americans don't personally know anyone who is Muslim.
Do you think that also drives this issue in terms of not understanding or having a mistrust of even our own allies?
IRSHAD MANJI, AUTHOR, "THE TROUBLE WITH ISLAM TODAY": Oh, of course it does.
If you don't even know that you have Muslims as neighbors, yet alone as allies, how can you possibly humanize Muslims?
But I will also tell you, Roland, that a couple of years ago, a very interesting survey came out by a well-respected think tank in this country called the Pew Research Center. And it was the first comprehensive survey of Muslim Americans.
And it found, to everybody's surprise, that the vast majority of Muslims in America love living here, have close non-Muslim friends -- and get this -- they say have never experienced an act of discrimination on U.S. soil.
So, there's clearly a disconnect between how many non-Muslims view Muslims in America and how many Muslims feel so comfortable living in America. MARTIN: Rabbi Shmuley, something interesting has been happening with the president's trip. He's been using his middle name a lot, which we didn't hear a lot during the campaign.
Before I want you to comment, listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: The United States has been enriched by Muslim Americans. Many other Americans have Muslims in their families or have lived in a Muslim-majority country. I know because I'm one of them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: Now, it's interesting that he is talking this way when, look, he was doing everything to combat this whole notion that he was Muslim during the campaign, because he knew it had political ramifications.
RABBI SHMULEY BOTEACH, AUTHOR, "THE KOSHER SUTRA": Well, I think that was a mistake.
I think he should be very proud of the fact that he has Muslim roots, because traditionally Islam was the religion that set up state- funded colleges 300 years before the first European universities. Al- Razi of Baghdad had medical breakthroughs in ninth century that wouldn't be seen in Europe until the 19th century.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Rabbi Shmuley, let's be honest, though. He was running for office. People were looking at that as being a detriment, as opposed to a positive. Let's just be honest about that.
BOTEACH: No, but here -- but that's what I was about to say, Roland.
MARTIN: OK.
BOTEACH: There's a difference between traditional Islam and modern Islam.
Americans are very fair people. We're going to judge a system, whether it's communism, Judaism, Islam, by its actions, by what it does. The reason why Americans have become so suspicious of Islam is, they keep on seeing acts of terror being perpetrated in its name and they don't hear sufficiently from the moderate majority, the very decent God-fearing Muslims, to condemn this and say, this is not our religion.
It's the condemnation that's so important. Let's face it. The president of the United States is a very eloquent spokesperson. But he cannot rescue Islam. Only Muslims can only do that. We need to hear from all of these incredible patriotic Muslims that Irshad just spoke so eloquently of that they detest, despise, condemn, and see as an abomination the act of murder in the name of Islam. And when we see Saudi Arabia, for example, whipping a woman who's 75 years old last week simply because she spent time with her nephew because he brought her five loaves of bread, we're confused by this, because people of God are supposed to behave with morality and ethics.
MARTIN: OK.
Irshad?
MANJI: And Rabbi Shmuley brings up an excellent point, that part of the suspicion is driven by the fact that there's so much silence among moderate Muslims.
And this is why, Roland, I call myself a reform-minded Muslim, not a moderate Muslim. We reform-minded Muslims absolutely do speak up for universal human rights and against violence that is committed in the name of our religion.
But why? One has to ask, why do so many moderate Muslims not speak up? Largely, it's because of fear. What they fear is being called sellouts and traitors by their own. And that is the great tragedy of Islam in America.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Hey, Al, Rabbi Shmuley brought up this whole -- in terms of that Saudi Arabia story. Here is what interesting. The president has talked about talking to the Taliban. And some folks are saying that's a mistake because they have passed various laws that are not frankly embracing of women.
And so how does a president balance talking to a regime such as the Taliban, but also reaching out to the Muslim community?
MOHLER: Well, I think you have to go further about the Taliban and say, not only do they have awful and unthinkable laws against woman, but it's a totalitarian state.
MARTIN: But should we talk to them? Should we talk to them?
(CROSSTALK)
MOHLER: Well, you can talk to them, but the Taliban are not interested in a discussion. They have a very clear agenda.
And that agenda is clearly one they're willing to back up with violent acts. We know exactly what the Taliban are about. Talk is very, very dangerous if you just treat it as something that is supposed to be a way of dealing with problems, when the other side isn't willing to have any kind of conversation that can lead to change.
MARTIN: Irshad, 10 seconds.
MANJI: And, you know, 10 seconds, back to Turkey, President Obama should be talking to Turkish leaders about helping this country and NATO allies empower the secularists, not the theocrats.
MARTIN: Ten seconds, Rabbi Shmuley, final comment.
BOTEACH: The fact is that the president of the United States is very popular.
Speaking to the Taliban would be terrible, because that is legitimacy. The Taliban are al Qaeda. They're exactly the same. It would be a shame to see Muslim women being beaten in the streets again by guys with beards claiming that they're men of God.
MARTIN: Al Mohler, Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, Irshad Manji, we certainly appreciate it. Thank you so very much for a great conversation.
Folks, our series "Test of Faith' continues tomorrow, and we will take you inside the first family's search for a Washington church. You don't want to miss that story.
And, folks, we want also to hear from you, your thoughts on faith and how it affects your life. Shoot your video. Then upload it to ireport.com. You might see it on the air during out weeklong series "Test of Faith."
Now, later tonight, Larry King has got more on President Obama's call for partnership with the Muslim world. And don't miss his exclusive interview with Pastor Rick Warren at the top of the hour.
And we have got news tonight on a couple of developing stories, the latest pictures from rescue efforts following today's earthquake in Italy. And we will show you something the Pentagon's been keeping under wraps for almost 20 years. Tonight, we can finally reveal it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: Folks, we're taking your calls tonight on a question of religion and politics. Do Americans have a bias against Islam? Call us now at 1-877-NO-BULL-0. That's 1-877-662-8550.
And right now, Jessica Yellin is here with "The Briefing." And, of course, folks are praying for the folks in Italy right now because of this devastating earthquake.
YELLIN: Yes, it's a very sad story, Roland. It's a desperate rescue, in fact, right now that's underway in Italy where emergency crews are looking for signs of life after an earthquake early this morning.
The 6.3 magnitude quake struck in a mountainous region about 75 miles northeast of Rome. At least 150 people were killed, 1,500 were injured, and 50,000 are now homeless in the quake area.
The Pentagon is proposing a new budget that would ship billions of dollars away from big ticket items and into intelligence gathering and surveillance. Among the cut, the Air Force's F-22 rafter and 23 new presidential helicopters. They would have cost over $13 billion. The proposed new budget totals nearly $664 billion up from the current $655 billion.
Remember actress Farrah Fawcett is sick? She is now in a Los Angeles hospital tonight recovering from complications from cancer treatment in Germany. Despite earlier reports that she was unconscious, Fawcett's doctor says she's now in good spirits.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She is continuing to fight this battle. She is doing well. There are struggles.
There are struggles for any person going through cancer treatment. She's got those struggles as well, but she has an incredible resolve, an incredible resilience. She's been in great shape throughout all of her life and she's fighting with everything she has.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YELLIN: And finally, singer Chris Brown, he was back in court today. He entered not guilty pleas on both charges in the felony assault case against him. Brown is charged with attacking his girlfriend, the pop star Rihanna, in February.
And I know, Roland, that's a story that you care a lot about. I say it's showbiz. Who expected anything other than a guilty plea? Not guilty.
MARTIN: I'll tell you what, a lot of folks have been e-mailing on this topic. It's pretty interesting how it just really resonated, this whole notion of domestic violence. So we'll see what happens next.
Jessica, I appreciate it. Thanks a lot.
Folk, tonight, we're going to show you extraordinary and moving pictures of something the Pentagon didn't want you to see for almost 20 years. Trust me, you won't want to miss it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: Now, folks, real people and real issues. We're about to show you something most Americans haven't seen in 18 years because the government didn't want you to see it. Take a few moments now, to experience what's called a dignified transfer. It's the official homecoming for our fallen soldiers.
This, folks, is the reality of America at war; 4,200 of our brothers, sisters, friends and neighbors have returned home this way from Iraq and Afghanistan. But the media was forbidden from showing you these images until now.
Some say Americans don't truly get this war because so much of it is out of sight and out of mind. The question is, will the sight of flag-draped caskets cause Americans to be more aware of the real consequences of war? Joining us now is Karen Meredith who lost her son in Iraq. She says let the people see these images. And Brian Wise of Military Families United, he says keep them private.
Now, Karen, your son was killed in Iraq in 2004. You couldn't get a picture of his homecoming. Tell us about your feelings now after seeing that. How do you feel?
KAREN MEREDITH, GOLD STAR MOTHER: Well, I had asked for a photograph of Ken's body being returned to Dover just so that I could see the dignity and respect of that ceremony. And I asked for that photograph the morning that I was told that he was killed. And the Army refused me saying that it was against regulations and for the privacy of the families.
So to see these photographs now and to see this film now is quite moving and it's the pictures that I had asked for to see Ken being returned. So I'm very happy.
MARTIN: Now, Brian, you say a lot of military families don't want these images made public. Why?
BRIAN WISE, EXEC. DIR., MILITARY FAMILIES UNITED: Very simply, Roland, it's because when this issue came up, we went to America's military families. We represent over 140,000 military families throughout the country and we asked them, what do they think about this?
And an overwhelming number, over 85 percent said that they didn't want this policy changed. And to address what Ms. Meredith had just said, one of the things that Families United advocated for in this entire process is for the Department of Defense to film and take pictures of this process for it to be able to give to the families so that they would have a personal remembrance of what happened during that.
MARTIN: Did they?
WISE: They did. They agreed to do that, and that's part of the policy that's in place now. So, again, the Defense Department wasn't trying to hide anything and they reached out to America's military families after the policy, unfortunately, after the policy had been changed. But we were able to advocate for a number of changes in the policy even that they had decided on to make sure that the families were protected in this.
MARTIN: Right. Hey, Karen, I see you shaking your head.
MEREDITH: I am. This is a divisive subject between even if it's among only Gold Star families, family who have lost a loved one in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's divisive among the general public and it's divisive among military families.
I would say that 85 percent is hugely surprising to me because I'm involved in many, many projects and many, many organizations and if it's 50/50, I would be surprised. But 85 percent is very misleading to me. And I believe that Defense Secretary Gates made the right decision in allowing it to be a family's decision. And I do believe that this -- the Bush administration was trying to hide them.
My son went to Iraq with fanfare and patriotism, and he came back and it was dead silent. I didn't get to see anything, and the rest of the country didn't get to see anything about him coming back.
MARTIN: Hey, Brian, isn't that an issue, though, in terms of Americans, frankly, folks have just been going about their business, watching basketball, watching, you know, reality shows, not really thinking about the war? When you see this flag-draped casket, I mean, it does bring home the reality that a war is going on, soldiers are dying.
WISE: And these families don't want to hide that. These families want to tell the story, the heroic stories of their brave men and women that are over there in Iraq and Afghanistan and throughout the world fighting for America's freedom. In fact, these are the same families that want to invite the media into their homes but it has to be at the appropriate time.
During a -- in a mortuary or during a ceremony which is simply the transfer of a transfer case, it's not even a casket, it's a transfer case that carries the remains of these fallen heroes into the autopsy room and into the mortuary, is not the appropriate time for that. It's similar to if you were to lose a loved one and go into the funeral home and ask the cameras to follow you in there.
I think most Americans understand that process because they've been through that process, and they wouldn't want -- they wouldn't want the cameras and the media hounding them while they're trying to go through the process of grieving...
MARTIN: I got you.
WISE: ... and trying to have that privacy.
MARTIN: Karen, final comment. Twenty seconds.
MEREDITH: Canada has the Highway of Heroes where their country is allowed to grieve with the families when their soldiers leave their mortuary, and there's a small town in England outside of their mortuary. I think this is perfectly fine.
MARTIN: I got you.
MEREDITH: And the press will behave themselves.
MARTIN: Karen, Brian, we certainly appreciate it. Thank you so very, very much for your participation.
WISE: Thank you for having me.
MARTIN: Folks, cameras caught the moment the two first ladies met. Just ahead, what Mrs. Obama gave Mrs. Sarkozy when the cameras were away. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: All right. Time for the "PDB," our "Political Daily Briefing." And one of the great slogans of baseball ahead. (INAUDIBLE) babe, Erica Hill.
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, my friend.
MARTIN: That's one of those slogans we always say on the baseball field.
HILL: Right, right, right.
MARTIN: It's a baseball thing.
HILL: It is. A lot of baseball things going on right now which I think means it's officially spring.
MARTIN: Yes.
HILL: That along with all the rain that we've seen outside, but let's talk baseball, shall we?
Starting off the season for the Texas Rangers because it is opening day, former President George W. Bush. And the crowd, pretty happy about it after welcome home announcement. Look at this, 40,000 fans on their feet for a standing ovation, plenty of cheering as you can hear.
Number 43, of course, also had a little bit of a history with the team since he used to be part owner. He's one of three former presidents actually to throw out the Rangers' first pitch. His father and Gerald Ford also had those honors.
Heading across the country now, east of Baltimore, where Vice President Joe Biden became the first sitting VP ever to throw out the first pitch at Camden Yards. The Orioles opening their season this afternoon against the Yankees.
Senator Ted Kennedy, meantime, was slated to take them out at Fenway for the Red Sox opener but it got rained out. That game now scheduled for tomorrow, Roland.
MARTIN: What happened to all this family love with the Palins? Remember all the photos on the stage, holding hands.
HILL: There's still some love within the family, but it may be with another family. There may not be a lot of love right now.
Plenty of talk these days about Levi Johnston, who you may recall was Bristol Palin, one of Governor Palin's daughter's boyfriend and fiance.
Well, he did an interview with "The Tyra Banks Show." It aired today and the Alaska teen says things got complicated after the former couple's son, Tripp, was born three months ago. There's the couple in happier times. He says despite her claims that he could see their son any time, Bristol Palin actually makes it difficult for Johnston to see little Tripp.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEVI JOHNSTON, BRISTOL PALIN'S FORMER FIANCE: She's usually in a pretty bad mood. She's short. She doesn't seem -- she doesn't want me around I don't think.
TYRA BANKS, HOST, "THE TYRA BANKS SHOW": She doesn't want you around.
JOHNSTON: And she says -- yes.
BANKS: She says what?
JOHNSTON: She says that I can come see the baby and that kind of thing but won't let me take him anywhere.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: The Palin family is far from thrilled with his interview, in fact, released a statement making that very clear. The statement reads in part, "We're disappointed that Levi and his family, in a quest for fame, attention, and fortune, are engaging in flat-out lies, gross exaggeration, and even distortion of their relationship."
Now the family also made it clear they didn't know about Levi Johnston's interview until after the fact. And the Palins say Bristol now realizes, Roland, she made a mistake in her relationship with Levi.
MARTIN: Oh, got you. A family drama. Tabloids will be happy.
Also, of course, Michelle Obama in the news. Folks can't get enough of her. What's all the details?
HILL: They can't. And you would have thought that every little tidbit had been eaten up at this point, right?
MARTIN: Yes.
HILL: Hard to believe there may be an outfit or even a step that has not been reported, but we have managed to find a snippet for you.
Despite criticism for the president's iPod gift to the queen of England, when it comes to music, Mrs. Obama seems to have struck just the right chord of her gift to Carla Bruni Sarkozy, an acoustic guitar. That works, of course, because France's first lady is also a singer and songwriter. She is reportedly, Roland, working on her fourth album.
MARTIN: All right, jam session in store.
HILL: There you go.
MARTIN: Erica, I appreciate it. Thanks so much.
Folks, we're getting a lot of interesting e-mails tonight. Dennis says, "Allowing the media to cover arriving war casualties benefits no one but the media. It's simply sensational imagery."
There's still time to make your voice heard. Send me an e-mail or look me up on Twitter and Facebook. I'm checking right now. I want to read your comments.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: We've got some wonderful news to report tonight. Our own Campbell Brown is a mom again.
The newest member of the CNN family Asher Liam Senor (ph) was born this afternoon at 2:00. Baby Asher weighed in at 9 pounds and 4 ounces. Mom, dad and the baby all doing great and so is big brother Eli.
Asher, the way we say it is Uncle Roro (ph). That's what my nieces and nephew do it. Uncle Roro (ph).
All right. "LARRY KING LIVE" is minutes away and he's got a purpose-driven show.
LARRY KING, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.
MARTIN: Larry, what's up?
KING: Hi, Roland. Speaking of names, whatever happened to John?
MARTIN: John?
KING: John, or, you know, Mike?
MARTIN: Or Larry or Roland?
KING: Larry's gone. Roland I think is history too. Asher, I like that.
MARTIN: It works.
KING: Yes. Hey, we're going to have the latest on the felony assault case against singer, Chris Brown, accused of attacking the music star, Rihanna. Could there be a plea deal, or will Rihanna have to testify against him? We'll have the details about today's arraignment.
And then, as you mentioned, that exclusive with Pastor Rick Warren. He was part of President Obama's inauguration, you remember. What does he think of the president now? The purpose-driven pastor is all ahead on "LARRY KING LIVE" tonight -- Roland.
MARTIN: All right. Larry, thanks so much. We'll be watching.
Folks, and we're listening to you tonight on all the big topics. There's still time to join in the conversation. Don't forget you can e-mail me or just send me a note to my Twitter or Facebook account. We want to check out what you have to say.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: I love it Johnston Jam (ph).
President Obama is extending a hand to the Muslim world, but can he get Americans here at home on board with that? It's your turn and your voice now.
Irshad Manji from NYU, she's back to help us out.
We've got a lot of folks on the phone lines and so I want to go right to Tim in Fort Collins, Colorado.
Hey, Tim.
TIM, COLORADO (via telephone): How are you doing?
MARTIN: Great.
TIM: I just like to make the comment that obviously the average Islamic is not a terrorist but when we constantly see Islamic countries on TV burning the American flag saying death to America, and we both know they're operating Islamic terrorist cells still in this country after 9/11, it's kind of hard to have trust in the Islams here.
MARTIN: But Irshad --
TIM: That's why we're having --
MARTIN: Irshad, isn't Tim making assumptions, though, in terms of what we're only seeing these images?
MANJI: Yes. First of all, Tim, it's not Islam, it's Muslims. That's number one.
MARTIN: Right.
MANJI: I don't even say that officiously (ph). We're here to educate. Let's do that.
Secondly, you know, I mean, I think Tim, again, has a point...
MARTIN: Right.
MANJI: ... about sort of the media images that are constantly pumped into the minds of people around the world, not just -- not just, you know, Americans. But I think that's why, Roland, we have to move past the Middle East where so much of the violence is happening and look to the fact that 80 percent of Muslims around the world, Roland, live outside of the Arab world.
MARTIN: Great point. MANJI: Not in the Arab world. Go to Indonesia, at least by TV, then you'll see pluralistic (ph) Islam.
MARTIN: I want to go to the wall here, folks. We've got lots of people who are calling, so I want to go to Hager. She's in Allentown, Pennsylvania.
Hager, how are you doing?
HAGER, ALLENTOWN, PA (via telephone): Good, how are you?
MARTIN: Great. What's on your mind?
HAGER: Actually, what I wanted to say was as a Muslim woman, American Muslim woman growing up in the United States with a head cover on my head...
MARTIN: Right.
HAGER: ... I take my kids everywhere, to karate, to soccer with my head covering, and I don't see it as a restriction.
MARTIN: OK.
HAGER: Actually, I see it as liberating to me to be who I am. As a woman, Islam gave me that right. Taliban, all those other things that people associate with Islam has nothing to do with Islam.
MARTIN: Right.
HAGER: And it's really hurtful to have people associate that radical group with us.
MARTIN: Well, absolutely.
HAGER: I go with my girlfriends out to Panera Bread, all of us wear head scarves, we have a good time. We go out shopping. We are the real Muslims. And if people want to take a look at that and see --
MARTIN: Hey, Hager, I certainly agree because look, the folks who blew up abortion clinics who call themselves Christian, I don't claim them as well.
MANJI: But Roland, Roland.
MARTIN: I certainly appreciate your phone call.
Irshad, go right ahead.
MANJI: OK. I simply want to say, you know what, Hager, I'm a fellow Muslim as well. I'm a woman in the world of Islam as well. And I got to tell you that what's even more hurtful than the stereotyping that's being done against you is the fact that we Muslims remain silent about the fact that so many Muslim women around the world are being forced to cover by fellow Muslims. Look, if we expect to be treated with dignity here, we've also got to treat others with dignity.
MARTIN: Right.
Going to my native of Texas, Donna, calling from New Braunfels. Donna, what's on your mind?
DONNA, NEW BRAUNFELS, TX (via telephone): Hi. I just wanted to say how refreshing it is to have a politician, especially the president of the United States speak about Islam from an educated informed position, rather than one of ignorance and prejudice.
I recall an event when the legislators of one of our states turned down free copies of the Koran. And I think it's that kind of fear that's grounded in ignorance that has contributed to the conditions that have created the war on terrorism.
MARTIN: OK.
DONNA: You know, terrorism in itself. And although I was raised a Christian, I've read the Koran and I've studied Islam a little bit and found that Muhammad (ph) taught the same spiritual principles as Jesus...
MARTIN: OK.
DONNA: ... including peace and brotherhood.
MARTIN: Hey, Donna.
DONNA: I believe (INAUDIBLE) that it's going to take courageous world leaders like President Obama and other people who believe the teachings of Christ to actually bring about world peace.
MARTIN: All right. Donna, I certainly appreciate it. Thanks a bunch.
I want to go to Abdullahi (ph). He's actually in Minneapolis. Of course, that is the home of the only Muslim member of Congress.
Abdullahi (ph), what's your comment? You've got about 30 seconds.
ABDULLAHI, MINNEAPOLIS (via telephone): Thank you. Thanks for taking my call. I came to the United States right after the Iraqi invasion. And I think the president, today, shut the door on the word, the phrase "war on terror" because what the president did was that he really pulled it forcefully that the United States of America is not at war with Islam.
MARTIN: Great point.
ABDULLAHI: I'm very proud of the United States president really, really making very strongly today that to the whole world that the United States is not at war with Islam. MARTIN: All right, Abdullahi (ph)?
ABDULLAHI: I think he gives terrorists a run for their money.
MARTIN: I appreciate it. Again, thanks for your phone call. I appreciate it.
I got to go to a voicemail right now, Tariq in Illinois -- Tarik.
TARIQ, ILLINOIS: Most people don't really have any first-hand information about Islam. Second, there's a lot of negative media coverage so I think it really just boils down to a lack of education.
MARTIN: All right. Folks, we appreciate your phone calls and your comments, but we're not done. We're working on something special -- something special. And also, again, we'll be taking your phone calls and we'll tell you about that in just a moment.
Irshad, we certainly appreciate it. We'll have you back real soon.
MANJI: Thank you, Roland.
MARTIN: All right.
MANJI: God bless.
MARTIN: Thanks so much.
All right, folks, we've got to go. Appreciate your phone calls. Back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: Hey, folks, tune in tomorrow night. We'll tell you about "class project." It's a project you do not want to miss. That's again, tomorrow night.
That's all for us tonight, though.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.
