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Campbell Brown
President Obama Visits CIA; Walkout at U.N. Racism Conference
Aired April 20, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN ANCHOR: Folks, we got a lot of stories developing right now.
At the top of the -- at the world racism conference, dozens of diplomats so outraged, they walked out of a speech by the president of Iran today. We will tell you why.
And we are on the trail of a mystery illness in Florida that killed 21 thoroughbred horses. Were they killed or did they get sick by accident?
And I also want you to tell us what you think. Was a Miss USA contestant wrong to speak out against same-sex marriage? So, we're taking your phone calls on that.
But, first, we're starting tonight with our front-burner story, President Barack Obama's first visit to CIA headquarters just days after he released some top-secret memos on interrogating terror suspects. That didn't sit too well with some of the agency's top brass. So you wouldn't think he would get a warm reception from the rank and file.
Well, check this out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: Big response there.
Senior White House correspondent Ed Henry is here.
Now, Ed, tremendous reaction to the president's arrival, pretty unusual stuff for the CIA.
ED HENRY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It really was, Roland, because you normally see these CIA officials being very reserved, very calm and cool.
And it was sort of like a rock star reception. I think there were a couple things at work here. First of all, the other part of that whole controversial torture story last week is that, beyond releasing the memos, the president said something else, which is, he's not planning to pursue criminal prosecutions of any CIA officials who may have been involved in this, that, basically, they were told by Bush officials it was legal, these interrogation techniques, so they should be off the hook.
That's obviously very popular with CIA officials, who had been nervous about they would face criminal charges. Secondly, the president said something else in his remarks. He was basically saying that, because he's ended these tough interrogation techniques, it is almost like the CIA has one arm tied behind its back.
It's tough to do its job against al Qaeda and other terror organizations, but the president said in the long run the U.S. is going to be much better for it. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What makes the United States special and what makes you special is precisely the fact that we are willing to uphold our values and our ideals even when it's hard, not just when it's easy; even when we are afraid and under threat, not just when it's expedient to do so. That's what makes us different.
So yes, you've got a harder job and so do I. And that's OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: And, finally, the president made another important point, which is that he said, look, a lot of CIA officials, they get the blame when something bad goes wrong if there's God forbid a terror attack or something like that, but they never really get credit when something goes right, because it is kept classified, it's under wraps.
And when he said that, someone in the crowd shouted out amen, and the president joked there's sort of an amen corner over at the CIA, Roland. I think that's clearly part of the reason why he got such a good reception there -- Roland.
MARTIN: Ed, I want to bring in some other folks to talk about President Obama's relationship with the CIA.
Here with us is CNN national political correspondent Jessica Yellin and syndicated columnist Miguel Perez. He joins us right here in New York. And in D.C., Cliff May from the Foundation for Defense of Democracies.
Now, Jessica, I want to start with you. Of course, we are hearing all these things about interrogation techniques, things along those lines. What can you tell us in terms of this response, what we're hearing from the CIA, but also Capitol Hill?
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: One of the troubling things that has developed for President Obama is in one of the memos it was revealed that 266 times two individuals were water- boarded.
So just two suspects got it 266 times, one suspect 183 times in one month alone. Now, the problem for President Obama here is that for the critics of his position that we should not prosecute folks in the CIA for water-boarding, this emboldens the liberals to say, look, how can you say 183 water-boardings in one month is not torture? And so they're saying we should take a second look. We should think about prosecuting them.
MARTIN: Hey, Cliff, what about that? Former head of the CIA Michael Hayden, he says, look, this made us safer. There are memos showing that. And so, what Jessica just said, that number, is that considered excessive, if it worked?
CLIFF MAY, PRESIDENT, FOUNDATION FOR THE DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES: Yes.
I mean, look, if 183 times, you had a poker put through your eyes, which is really torture, or had your nails pulled off, you wouldn't survive it. It sounds like this was a guy for whom water- boarding was not that rough, because he was able to get used to it and I guess not break.
Look, I think it's fine to outlaw water-boarding. Congress could have done it at any point they wanted to. They didn't. Congress was briefed about water-boarding. We also learned that when they were doing things like pushing terrorists up against walls, they were doing it against flexible walls, so they wouldn't get hurt. They were doing it with collars on them, so their neck wouldn't be hurt by that.
And even with the water-boarding, there were very strict rules evidently about how often it could be done. Look, I think there's two things to ask. What actually works? And of the things that work, what are we willing to do?
MARTIN: Right.
MAY: I think you have to distinguish harsh methods of interrogation and torture. Everything that is uncomfortable to a terrorist under interrogation I don't believe is torture.
MARTIN: Miguel, you sat here and began to shake your head when Cliff said water-boarding not that tough.
MIGUEL PEREZ, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: It is torture. And one time, it's torture. You don't have to do it 187 times. You can only do it once and it's torture. And it should be banned and the president was right for releasing the memos detailing this information.
And it's also right, I believe, for not prosecuting the CIA people who are involved. We don't want to keep washing our dirty laundry, letting the whole world know what we have been doing. It's enough that we have admitted it already. But that's enough.
MARTIN: Jessica, real quick?
PEREZ: Dianne Feinstein, senator who runs the Intelligence Committee, is disagreeing with the president. And she sent him a letter today saying hold off on your decision not to prosecute. Let's decide. This was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed who got 183 water-boardings in one month, bad guy, but still she wants to see if prosecution might still be an option.
MARTIN: Going back to the White House, Ed, you questioned the administration, questioned the president regarding the prosecution. What did they say?
HENRY: Well, I was pressing Robert Gibbs here today in the briefing room and saying, look, there are, as Jessica is pointing out, some critics on the left now, who normally support this president, saying, look, if you are going to go to the trouble of putting these memos out there, having people like General Hayden say in charge that you're making the country less safe, why then would you not take the extra step of pursuing criminal prosecutions?
Robert Gibbs is basically saying, look, we don't want to look backward. We want to look forward. They basically think it's going to take a lot of time to go through what really went wrong, what happened.
But the fact of the matter is the people who are upset about what happened in the past want some answers. And I think that's why, as Jessica pointed out, Senator Feinstein is saying not so fast.
MARTIN: Hey, Ed, hold on.
The president, folks, has a lot more than the CIA on his mind these days. This morning, he met for the first time with his Cabinet and gave them some bad news. He wants to cut $100 million from their budgets. Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So what we're going to do is, line by line, page by page, $100 million there, $100 million here. Pretty soon, even in Washington, it adds up to real money.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: So, Ed, exactly what's the president asking his Cabinet to do? I mean, paper clips? I mean, staples? What?
HENRY: Actually, there is some of that, Roland.
The Department of Homeland Security is saying they're going to start buying office supplies in bulk and this is going to save over the next decade, you know, tens of millions of dollars. You have got the Veterans Affairs Department saying they're going to cut back on some 26 conferences they were going to have around the country.
Instead, they're going to keep their people here in D.C. and do it by video conference. So, look, you can save some pocket change like that. And even $100 million really is pocket change when you compare it to a $1.3 trillion budget deficit. But I think the point the president is trying to make, this is what top White House officials are saying here, is that the symbolism of it, just like back years ago when people shamed the Pentagon for buying $600 toilet seats, Robert Gibbs was saying today the same thing of symbolism about cutting back on small things could make some major changes.
Here's how the president put it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: We also have a deficit, a confidence gap when it comes to the American people. And we have got to earn their trust. They have got to feel confident that their dollars are being spent wisely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: But it's interesting to see, Roland, how the president's arguments are sort of shifting here near the end of the first 100 days.
Remember, at the beginning of the first 100 days, when they were trying to push through that massive stimulus bill, every time Republicans on the Hill kept saying, look, there's $100 million for contraceptive use or there's $100 million to re-sod the National Mall, they were pulling out these pork projects, the president and his aides kept saying, look, $100 million, that's chump change. That's only less than 1 percent of the whole bill. Why are you making a big deal out of it?
Now the argument is flipped and all of a sudden they're saying, well, maybe $100 million matters -- Roland.
MARTIN: All right, Ed, thank you so much. We certainly appreciate it.
Let's quickly turn to chief business correspondent Ali Velshi.
Ali, what's going on with the $100 million? Big deal or grandstanding?
ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: I think Ed hit it on the head. It is symbolic.
Let's talk about -- Ed said it was part of a $1.3 trillion deficit. Let's talk about it in terms of the whole budget. I love these big numbers -- $3.67 trillion is the size of the federal budget and they are talking about cuts of $100 million.
Now, what does that amount to? Let's make that into something that is more relevant to you. Let's take -- instead of $3.7 trillion, let's take one of these Chrysler vans, which if you get the Sirius Satellite Radio in, will cost you $36,700. What would the equivalent cut be if you were negotiating with the salesman on that? It would be $1. That would be $1 off of a $36,700 car. It is not statistically significant, it's not important, but it is significant in terms of symbolism. The fact is, this $100,000, it's not like President Obama is saying to the departments, you have to come up with $100,000 -- $100 million amongst to you all.
He's saying, in addition to the cuts that are going to be going to be made to try and bring these deficits under control, we want you to find an extra $100 million that you are spending in places that might be careless.
So, on that sense, it is symbolic. It's a message, but it is not statistically significant at all -- Roland.
MARTIN: All right, Ali, thanks a bunch.
VELSHI: All right.
MARTIN: Now, folks, on Wall Street, that $100 million is definitely chump change. Listen to this. ExxonMobil is now on top of the new Fortune 500 list. It made $442.85 billion in revenue last year. Of course, $4 gas probably helped. Remember that?
Also, last year's number one, Wal-Mart, got bumped to the number- two spot. It only made $405.6 billion in revenue last year.
To find out who else is in the Fortune 500, folks, go right now to CNNMoney.com.
Now, a U.N. conference against racism turned into chaos today just as it was getting started. The president of Iran was making a speech. And when he speaks, trouble often follows. Watch this. We will tell you why the walkout happened. And we will be joined back with Cliff, Jessica, and Miguel in just two minutes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: Folks, the world racism conference was just getting started this morning in Geneva when the president of Iran took the stage and delivered a racist rant aimed at Israel.
Listen to what happened next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD, IRANIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): And they sent migrant from Europe, the United States, and from other parts of the world in order to establish a totally racist government in the occupied Palestine.
And, in fact, in compensation for the dire consequences of racism in Europe -- OK, please. Thank you.
And, in fact, in compensation for the dire consequences of racism in Europe, they helped bring to power the most cruel and repressive, racist regime in Palestine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: Well, folks, we're back.
Jessica Yellin, Miguel Perez, Cliff May, and Ed Henry are back with me.
And, of course, Ed, the White House took a lot of criticism for not going to this conference.
What are they saying now?
HENRY: They feel pretty good.
They're -- essentially, top White House officials are saying, we told you so, that this whole conference was a bad idea. That's why they didn't attend. They think it's reprehensible that you had the Iranian president taking shots not just at Israel, but some of our allies in Europe as well.
I think the bigger, long-term question, though -- that is sort of an easy one to fire back at him, but the bigger, long-term question is, what does this mean for the U.S. outreach to Iran? They have been trying to crack that door open. If he continues to make statements like this, it is going to be hard for the U.S. to continue to reach out, Roland.
MARTIN: Miguel, one speech, how does this one speech define the entire conference?
PEREZ: It doesn't define the entire conference, but it is the same pattern. These guys don't change. They hate us and they're going to keep hating us and they're going to let the world know.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: So, these guys, meaning Iran?
PEREZ: Iran, yes.
And Hugo Chavez, who is a friend of Ahmadinejad, is also -- or whatever you pronounce him.
MARTIN: Ahmadinejad.
(CROSSTALK)
PEREZ: Ahmadinejad.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Same as Blagojevich.
PEREZ: Thank you very much.
(LAUGHTER) PEREZ: It is the same thing all over again. It's this hatred of America that we keep seeing over and over again. And they're not going to change. They want us dead.
They want Israel to disappear from the map. And they -- and they insist -- but, you know, there are some very naive people in this world who insist that we can make -- you know, sing kumbaya with people who want us dead. It's impossible.
MARTIN: Cliff May, Cliff May, of course, we also saw the conviction of the journalist Roxana Saberi. So, how does that make it even more difficult? And should the president do more to try to get her released from prison? She was sentenced to eight years.
MAY: Yes, I certainly hope so. She is an American citizen. She's of Iranian background. She has imprisoned unfairly. And I would hope there would be great pressure to get her out.
Look, the president continues to reach out the Iran, to Iran's despots who rule the place. And he keeps getting his hand slapped back. At a certain point -- and I think it is good to do that he is doing what he is doing, but at a certain point, he is going to I think have to use something harsher than simply reaching out.
There are going to have to be strong sanctions at the very least in order to get the attention of Iran and show that we can not only speak softly, but we also sometimes carry a big stick.
MARTIN: Jessica, Cliff talks about reaching out. And we saw him reaching out in terms of the photo with Chavez. And so what is the fallout from that particular image?
YELLIN: Well, that's a potentially dangerous image for President Obama, but only in terms of domestic politics, because you can just imagine the Republican campaign in which they start unveiling this photo and say that the president is weak already.
Newt Gingrich and Dick Cheney, the former vice president, have said it's a proof that President Obama is weak.
But, as they like to say, the proof is in the pudding. And it really depends on whether President Obama gets results of his new strategy of nice.
MARTIN: Hey, Ed, what about that? I mean, was he supposed to just somehow avoid shaking his hand or slap it around?
HENRY: Well, the president's response basically was that, look, Chavez, the Venezuelan president, is better at getting his face in front of the camera and that he essentially sort of staged some of these photo-ops.
I think the White House makes a fair point when they say, look, President -- former President Bush kept pushing back against Venezuela. What did they do? They kicked out the U.S. ambassador to Venezuela. There's really no diplomatic relations. Now all of maybe there's an opening. They hope something comes out of it.
But, as Jessica points out, if all this blows up in the president's face and he really doesn't get anywhere with it, it's going to be a video highlight for the RNC to use in the years ahead. There's no doubt about that.
MARTIN: Miguel.
PEREZ: I like the approach Obama is using. And I will tell you why.
Here is a liberal American president who's going to Latin America and saying, you can be liberal, you can even be a socialist, and you don't have to put your opposition in jail. You don't have to be totalitarian to be a liberal. You can have free elections and be a liberal.
He disarms them just by being himself. And that's why Obama -- Chavez and Ortega and the Castros, they don't know what to do with Obama. They really don't know how to deal with him. They would prefer George Bush in the White House, so they can say, American, Yankee imperialist. Obama doesn't look or act like a Yankee imperialist.
MARTIN: Jessica, you have a real interesting in terms of Bush reaction, Obama reaction.
YELLIN: Right.
I remember at the same Summit of the Americas with President Bush two years ago. And Hugo Chavez walks into the room, and the entire room swarms around Hugo Chavez. President Bush avoids him completely, looked completely alone.
MARTIN: Sort of like a dance going, right.
YELLIN: A dance, like you put it, like celebrities, when Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman walk in to the Oscars separately.
MARTIN: On red carpets. Keep them separate.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Hey, Cliff, too much, you know, reaction from the right in saying, oh, this was a bad move? I'm reading all kind of stuff. People are saying, oh, he shouldn't have shaken his hand, should not have taken the book. So what is he supposed to do, just say get away from me?
MAY: No, I think it's fine to shake the guy's hand. I wish he hadn't seemed quite as thrilled to meet me, quite as smiling.
And I think it would have been OK to also say something in defense of the people who have been imprisoned, the political prisoners in Venezuela's jails, the people who have imprisoned by Daniel Ortega, the people who have been imprisoned in Bolivia. Speaking out on behalf of the freedom of democracy is something I would like to see our president continue to do. So I'm not against him shaking hands, but I wish he had a little bit of criticism and a little bit support for the people who are oppressed by these dictators.
MARTIN: Well, sometimes, as they say, kill them with kindness.
We certainly appreciate. Thanks a bunch. Miguel, Jessica, Cliff May, Ed Henry, thanks a bunch.
Also, folks, a program note. Tomorrow night, I will talk to the father Roxana Saberi, the young American journalist convicted of spying and sentenced to prison in Iran.
If you're a parent, this is a story you have got to hear. Imagine you sending your young teenage daughter or son to school and find out that he or she is being strip-searched. I will talk to a mother and daughter who have been through it. Now their case has gone to the Supreme Court.
And I want to know what you think. We're taking your phone calls on the issue, 1-877-NO-BULL-0. That's 1-877-662-8550. You can also e-mail me or fine me on Twitter and Facebook. See you online.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: You trust schools and teachers to keep your kids safe. I know I do with my four nieces. But the question, how far should they go? Tonight, we will hear from a girl who was strip-searched in the eighth grade. The Supreme Court is ready to take up her case, and the decision could change the rules at your child's school.
Plus, was it foul play at the polo club? Twenty-one horses mysteriously drop dead right before a match in Florida. Tonight, we ask, how could this happen? And are other animals at risk?
Also, Miss California finds out the hard way, honesty isn't always the best policy. She was asked and said straight out that she is against same-sex marriage. Did it cost her the crown? What do you think?
BlackDisney on Twitter says: "Miss California screwed herself. If she said a neutral answer like saying it's up to the states or saying no comment, she wins."
Well, what do you think? The phone lines are now open. Call me now, 1-877-NO-BULL-0. That's 1-877-662-8550.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: So, folks, how far can a school go to enforce the rules?
Savana Redding was strip-searched at school as an eighth-grader. School officials were looking for ibuprofen, the pain reliever. She was taken to the nurse's office, where she was told to strip down to her underwear. They found nothing.
Tomorrow, her case will be argued before the U.S. Supreme Court. The decision in this case will dictate what schools and teachers can and can't do for years to come.
I asked the now 19-year-old Savana about how this incident changed her life.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAVANA REDDING, STRIP-SEARCHED IN EIGHTH-GRADE: Before it happened, you know, I loved school. I loved everything about it. I had a 4.0 GPA, honor roll. And now -- well, afterwards, I never wanted to go to school again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: Well, folks, here now, Lisa Bloom, the anchor for truTV's "In Session," and Andrew Grossman, senior legal policy analyst for the conservative-leaning Heritage Foundation.
Lisa, I want to start with you.
We have got a lot of folks who hit us on Twitter, send us their tweets, if you will. And here is what was interesting.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: We had a lot of people raise this question. Strip- searching a 14-year-old: "Isn't that aggravated child molestation? I don't agree with what they did."
Is it?
LISA BLOOM, TRUTV ANCHOR: Well, I think it should be. I agree with that. I think it's outrageous.
What is next, water-boarding for spelling errors? This is a 13- year-old girl, an honor student, never in trouble before. And what are they looking for? Ibuprofen? Are you kidding me? Which, by the way, she never had on her person.
MARTIN: Right.
BLOOM: So, I think all of the facts are in her favor on this case.
And that's what the Supreme Court's going to do. They're going to look at the totality of the circumstances, look at everything. I don't see anything on the school board's side.
MARTIN: Andrew, this is interesting. I was at -- I attended William Holland Middle School in Houston. And, as a seventh-grader, I remember a security guard having me empty my pockets because the teacher said search him because his eyes were red. There were no drugs. My dad made the principal and the teacher apologize. So, is there any kind of rationale why a school would strip-search a teenager?
ANDREW GROSSMAN, THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION: Well, let's be clear. In this case, there obviously wasn't.
And I think Lisa is right that the court is going to look at the facts in this case, and they're going to conclude that the school board here really screwed up.
But you have to look at the bigger picture. Drugs are a problem. Weapons are a problem. If you take a search tool like off the table entirely, kids are going to take advantage of that. They're going to find the loophole and they're going to use it. So, it wasn't appropriate in this case, but it might be in other instances.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: Well, it would have to be in a very extreme case.
(CROSSTALK)
GROSSMAN: If I can, the key is, what guidance does the Supreme Court give to school administrators?
MARTIN: Lisa, go ahead.
BLOOM: Well, they're probably only going to rule on these facts. That's what courts do.
But I think it would have to be really extreme circumstances, some kind of a bomb, a gun, some very serious kind of drug like heroin or cocaine or crystal meth.
None of that is present here. You have a 13-year-old girl, by the way. She's in the nurse's office, so she's already taken into custody. She is asking for her mother. Her mother is not notified or brought into the school. Everybody else is safe from her because she is taken out of the general population. There's just no excuse for what happened here.
MARTIN: Andrew? Is it...
GROSSMAN: Well...
MARTIN: Go ahead.
GROSSMAN: I agree entirely.
The school was in the wrong. And I think it's pretty clear the court is likely going to come down that way. The facts are not favorable to the school district here. But, again, it raises the question, what are school officials supposed to do?
There's not very clear guidance at this point in time. MARTIN: Andrew...
GROSSMAN: And you run the risk that, if you set a standard that is too harsh, you are going to wind up with less learning and more lawsuits.
MARTIN: Andrew, how is this? Another tweet says: "Only the cops have the authority to strip-search, not school administrators or teachers. Could your boss strip-search you?"
And we have heard that. So, is that logical for a school district allow the authorities to do it, as opposed to a school district?
GROSSMAN: Well, again, you run into the circumstance where there could be pressing concerns. There could be weapons. There could be dangerous drugs.
You know, there is so much that the people on the front lines in our education system deal with every day. You don't want them having to consult a lawyer every single time a danger rears its head in the school. You want them to make good, clear decisions.
BLOOM: Well, if we're talking about violating somebody's constitutional rights, I think it is a good idea to consult a lawyer. And the police at least understand you have to have probable cause.
You know, Roland, somebody in juvenile hall would have more rights than this girl did, this young girl did when she was just a student. She wasn't a felon. She wasn't an inmate. She was just a girl going to school and I believe her, by the way.
And I don't think girls are very sensitive. I believe her when she says this is the worst day of her life. I really hope the Supreme Court rules in her favor.
MARTIN: All right. Lisa Bloom, Andrew Grossman, we certainly appreciate it.
BLOOM: Thank you.
MARTIN: We'll see how the court rules.
Folks, a beauty pageant contestant gave a straight answer, no pun intended, to a question some politicians would rather avoid. Miss California said she is not for same-sex marriage. Did that cost her the crown?
MtotheAKB doesn't think so. He says, "I think it's not because she holds that view, but she could have been more diplomatic in her delivery. It sounded too exclusive."
That comment from Twitter. What about you?
Well, the phone lines are open right now. 1-877-NO-BULL-0. 1- 877-662-8550. Also, hit me on e-mail or find me on Twitter and Facebook.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: Sometimes, folks, the truth hurts. Just ask Miss California who might have been a little too honest when asked about same-sex marriage. Tonight, we're talking about what she said and I hope you will join us.
Give us a call. 1-877-NO-BULL-0. That's 1-877-662-8550.
But first, Jessica Yellin is back with "The Briefing" and she's mad (INAUDIBLE) to claim this time. Go right ahead.
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NATL. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: We'll change it up. All right, Roland, a serious story.
Police in Boston say they've arrested a suspect they believe to be the craigslist killer. 22-year-old Philip Markoff (ph) from Quincy, Massachusetts is charged with the murder of a New York City woman. She was found shot to dead in a Boston hotel after advertising massage services on the site.
A somber service tonight near Columbine High School marking ten years since the massacre there. The school was closed today and flags across Colorado flew at half staff. Twelve students and a teacher were killed by two Columbine seniors back in 1999 who then killed themselves.
World-renowned physicist Stephen Hawking was rushed to a Cambridge England hospital today. Doctors say he's seriously ill, suffering from a chest infection. The 67-year-old has suffered from ALS or Lou Gehrig's disease for much of his life.
There was testimony today in a landmark lawsuit over the Hurricane Katrina disaster. A coastal geologist told the court that he had warned the Army Corps of Engineers that a manmade shipping channel could cause catastrophic flooding in New Orleans. Six victims who lost their homes are suing claiming the corps failed to maintain the channel. That case could open the door to billions of dollars worth of other lawsuits.
Well, this year's Boston marathon is a real nail biter at the end. The closest women's race ever at the event. Kenya's Salina Kosgei (ph) won a sprint to the last -- to the very tape head of the last year's winner. American runners took third in both the women's and men's races for the best U.S. finish since 1985.
And here's a story you can't hear enough about. Last week, it was a 47-year-old Scottish woman named Susan Boyle. This week, there's a new Internet singing sensation. Check out 12-year-old Shaheen Jafargholi.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHAHEEN JAFARGHOLI, BRITAIN'S GOT TALENT: (singing)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YELLIN: Amazing. How do they keep finding these kids or grown- ups?
MARTIN: They're rolling one out each week. So, you know, I think there's some pretty interesting marketing going on too.
YELLIN: Yes. This audition clip from "Britain's Got Talent" has already been seen almost 600,000 times on YouTube alone. I have a feeling it will get a few more clicks. Even Simon Cowell, the judge who is notoriously hard to impress, get this, gave him a standing ovation.
MARTIN: All right, not bad. Hey, folks, also send us a tweet or Facebook. See the original author of that song. We're trying to figure it out.
Well, Jessica, thanks so much.
Folks, I want to take a quick second and talk about education. I'm excited about a new project we're calling class project. That's because, you know, education, important to folks like me, even Jessica. And also from my earlier memories, my parents made sure that school will be the highest priority for me and my four brothers and sisters.
So, here's what class project is all about. Whether you're a student, a teacher or parent, we want to know what's going right or needs fixing in your schools. So upload your videos to iReport.com/classproject. Yes, we want to use your videos to show everyone what's working, oh yes, and what's not to help find solutions.
Tonight, there's a bizarre who's done it involving horses. Twenty-one of them dropped dead before a polo match. More ahead on the hunt for who's behind it.
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MARTIN: At a polo tonight, a disturbing mystery that could have international implications. Just before the U.S. Open Polo Championship got underway yesterday, something caused 21 horses to drop dead almost all at the same time.
CNN's John Zarrella is in Miami right now. And, John, 21 horses are dead. What in the world happened?
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Roland, that's exactly what the state of Florida wants to know, too, now. Late this afternoon, the State Department of Agriculture announced it had launched its own investigation bringing in local police as well as agricultural police to try and figure out what happened now.
It took place yesterday just before a 3:00 match was supposed to begin by a group of polo group out of Venezuela. And as their horses were being unloaded from the trucks, two of them died almost immediately showing signs of distress. Five more died on the scene. And then the other 14 died as they were being transported for care or when they got to animal hospitals for care.
So again, Roland, the state of Florida very interested now in what might have taken place.
MARTIN: John, all kind of reporting going on out there. We see some reports saying, you know, their death simply wasn't an accident.
ZARRELLA: Yes, you know, and here's what a lot of the polo people we talked to up there including someone who owns his own stable of horses.
They said, look, there's no money to be made in our sport. There's no endorsements in our sport. For something like that to happen, it's kind of unusual. But what we are being told from veterinarians, in fact, one who actually tried to save these horses, they believe that somehow a toxin or a reaction to a drug got into the horses' systems.
MARTIN: Now, also, we're hearing that some people are concerned about the water or the air. Any concerns at all by Florida officials that it could go beyond just these horses?
ZARRELLA: No. It doesn't appear to be the case. At this point, it appears isolated just to these horses. Again, all from one stable. So it didn't happen when they got to the polo match. It happened perhaps at their stables.
The other horse owners we talked to said, well, at first, they were a bit concerned that it might be something airborne, something bacterial but when it became clear that this was isolated to the 21 horses from this one stable, then their concerns lessened.
MARTIN: All right. John Zarrella in Miami, we certainly appreciate it. Thanks so much.
ZARRELLA: My pleasure.
MARTIN: Folks, you can also get all the late-breaking details on the investigation to this mystery by going right now to CNN.com/Campbell. We'll link you to the U.S. Polo championship these horses were competing in, and more information on the horses.
"LARRY KING LIVE" is coming up at the top of the hour. Larry, you go ahead and tell the folks who you got hanging out tonight.
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Roland, we're going to have new developments in the case of the preacher's granddaughter already charged in the murder of a little girl. And then the uproar over Miss California's comments on gay marriage that may have cost her the ultimate crown.
Plus, you know you love her. Susan Boyle's got an encore performance for you. And meet the person who's hot on her heels to become the next big thing. Plus, Robert Redford and the White House's first green czar on changing our energy consuming ways. We're jam-packed tonight, Roland. See you next on "LARRY KING LIVE."
MARTIN: I like your lavender shirt, Larry. You look pretty good.
KING: Thanks.
MARTIN: Folks, Newt Gingrich doesn't have much good to say about President Obama these days. He's also speaking out about a member of his own party. Find out what he has to say about Governor Sarah Palin, and you will in just two minutes.
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MARTIN: Jessica approves of the song, Joss Stone. All right, folks, time now for our "Political Daily Briefing" and the "PDB" starts tonight with a Senate race that's been tied up in the courts for months and never seems to end. Once again, here's national political correspondent Jessica Yellin.
YELLIN: Yes, it's the Senate race that keeps on going, Roland.
MARTIN: And going and going and going.
YELLIN: And going and going. One-time comedian turned Senate candidate Al Franken clearly feels he's had enough of recounts and court hearings. He hasn't officially been declared the winner of the Minnesota Senate race, but get this, he's already acting like he has the job.
He has started assembling his Senate staff. I guess he figures five months after the election, it's time for someone to start getting ready to govern. His opponent, Norm Coleman, says he's taking this all the way to the state Supreme Court. So we'll see how that ends up.
MARTIN: Who's going to pay them?
YELLIN: Taxpayers.
MARTIN: Oh, OK, just checking.
OK, Newt Gingrich, it seems that, you know, he's talking every single day. This should be the Gingrich political daily briefing.
YELLIN: It really should. He seems to be good at getting press for himself. And this time, it's not just the president he's going after but a member of his own party. She also gets a lot of press, Sarah Palin.
In an interview with "Christianity Today," the former House speaker left Palin off a list of rising stars in the GOP. When pressed about it, Gingrich called Palin a significant figure in the party but said, "Becoming a national leader would take a significant amount of work." Gingrich has also been spending the day slamming President Obama for his recent handshake with Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez saying the president is bolstering America's enemies. Gingrich is getting off good at criticizing other people.
MARTIN: Yes, indeed. Yes, indeed.
Also, a little sports here at the White House. What's going on with all the different sports figures?
YELLIN: I don't know about this. It's not my thing. Apparently --
MARTIN: Oh, come on.
YELLIN: The president likes some team called the White Sox.
MARTIN: Chicago White Sox, South Side. It's in the South Side.
YELLIN: I know. Are you a Cubs person?
MARTIN: No, I'm born and raised in Houston, so it's the Astros.
YELLIN: Oh.
MARTIN: But I live in Chicago so I understand.
YELLIN: You understand. Well, the president is devoted to the White Sox so both that team and Tiger Woods are visiting today. The president first met with Tiger Woods who was actually in town promoting his upcoming charity. No doubt the two talked about the president's golf game.
MARTIN: Man, he needs some golf tips with that swing. I'm sorry.
YELLIN: Really?
MARTIN: Yes. My goodness.
YELLIN: He's only tried to sneak a round in when he can, but it is also likely that they talked about the more weighty issue of race as both have become icons for shattering barriers.
Now, the president also met with 35 players, team officials and family members of the White Sox who also got a private tour of the White House. Usually, that kind of honor only takes place when a team wins the World Series. But look, their man's in the White House. What are you going to do, right?
MARTIN: Yes. Also when they won the World Series, he was in the White House so it's all good. Also, we got a picture right there of the president throwing the first pitch out in 2005.
YELLIN: That's pretty impressive. How's his form?
MARTIN: Form is good there but trust me, the golf swing, we need some work.
YELLIN: Also, the outfit. What's up with that outfit?
MARTIN: What? It's the White Sox top.
YELLIN: OK, I'm not going to say anymore.
YELLIN: All right. You must like the Cubs or something. All right, Jessica, thanks so much.
MARTIN: Folks, runner-up or Miss USA says she didn't get the title because of comments she made about same-sex marriage. I've been getting a ton of tweets about it. Here's one from bimmerdarwg (ph).
"She was given a hang question and lost because of politics. Liberals set the standard for political correctness."
Let me know what you think. Call 1-877-NO-BULL-0. That's 1-877- 662-8550. Drop me an e-mail at roland@CNN.com. Yes, you can find me on Twitter and Facebook right now.
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MARTIN: Folks, you might not expect a beauty pageant to turn into a nationwide controversy. That's exactly what happened at the Miss USA pageant last night. Miss California was asked a question about same-sex marriage. The answer she gave was honest, maybe too honest, and she says it cost her the crown. Erica Hill is here with the story.
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and to get the full feel for it, Roland, I think everybody actually needs to hear the exchange that happened.
MARTIN: Right.
HILL: So here's the question and answer that has created all of this buzz.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PEREZ HILTON, MISS USA JUDGE: Vermont recently became the fourth state to legalize same-sex marriage. Do you think every state should follow suit? Why or why not?
CARRIE PREJEAN, MISS CALIFORNIA: Well, I think it's great that Americans are able to choose one or the other. We live in a land that you can choose same-sex marriage or opposite marriage. And you know what? In my country, and in my family, I think that I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman. No offense to anybody out there, but that's how I was raised and that's how I think that it should be between a man and woman. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: You can kind of see the reaction right there on Perez Hilton's face. Obviously, it was not the answer he was looking for. In fact, the blogger later said Carrie Prejean's answer cost her the Miss USA crown.
She told Access Hollywood's Billy Bush this morning she agrees saying, "It is a very touchy subject and he is a homosexual and I see where he was coming from. And I see the audience would've wanted me to be more politically correct. But I was raised in a way that you can never compromise your beliefs or you opinions for anything."
Now, actually, I did get in contact with the Miss Universe Organization today. I asked whether her answer did, in fact, cost her the title, Miss California. They told me they are not commenting here, Roland.
One thing though is clear, Miss California USA is definitely winning with the media because can you name the winner for the Miss USA pageant?
MARTIN: No.
HILL: Hardly anybody can. Miss North Carolina won.
MARTIN: I didn't watch Miss USA.
HILL: Kristen Dalton. And yet, it's the runner-up who's getting all the attention. So, it's kind of working out well for her in the end.
MARTIN: Well, but still no crown, no money.
HILL: Well -- somehow I think there could be money coming from somewhere else.
MARTIN: I got you. OK. Erica, hold tight. Stay right here.
Also right now, folks, we want to bring in VH-1 News host Janell Snowden. Also, we want to hear from all of you who are watching at home. Give us a call.
But first, Janell, look, there are only two ways to answer this question -- yea, nay.
JANELL SNOWDEN, HOST, VH-1 NEWS: Yes.
MARTIN: Same sex or not. And so, what's the big deal with her being so honest with her answer?
SNOWDEN: They're actually three ways to answer the question.
MARTIN: OK.
SNOWDEN: Just like most politicians usually give us the non- definitive answer. There's a neutral way to answer without actually giving the answer. It's a kind of a "Catch-22." But here's the deal.
The whole thing is a show. These girls, these contestants are performers. You play to your audience as a performer. If you go to a KKK rally, do you scream I love black people? You go to Harlem, do you scream that you hate them? No.
Perez Hilton gamely (ph) at the end asked her a question about same-sex marriage. She could have said, well, you know what? I think it's the individual states' right to decide. She could have answered any number of ways without being so affirmative. Who gives affirm answers in a pageant?
MARTIN: But here's the deal though. I heard there were people in the audience, we heard it on the tape, some who booed but some who applauded. OK, he might be gay but the guy seating next to him might be straight. So what's the deal?
SNOWDEN: The job of Miss America pageant or a contestant is to smile, look pretty and give diplomatic answers that do not offend vast sectors of the population, to give safe answers essentially. She did not give a safe answer.
MARTIN: Well, she gave an honest one.
Erica, was it an appropriate question to ask?
HILL: Well, you know, it's an interesting question but I think Janell raises an interesting point too, and that when you're looking at it, I don't know if the answer is, if the question is so much is it an appropriate question to ask, but maybe did she do her job in the answer? As Janell said, should she have been more diplomatic possibly?
But also, we have to look at the facts of the question, some of the facts in her answer. Maybe that's more the issue here is she said it's great that in America we have a choice, but yet that choice is only available in five states. So perhaps it should be more about whether or not the facts in the answer were accurate and whether or not it was a coherent answer as someone who you would want representing the country, not necessarily the opinion. Those are some of the questions that the pageant would have to answer.
MARTIN: Janell, you talked about not offending a large segment and the minds of the public. But it's interesting. CNN/Opinion Research poll, 55 percent of Americans agree with Miss California. So we shouldn't be surprised a lot of people are supporting her.
SNOWDEN: It's not surprising but the people who were coaching her, because we all know that these girls are coached. The people who are coaching her should have better prepared her perhaps for the question. After all, she is Miss California. She is the Proposition 8 state, so it should not have been a surprise for her that she would have been asked a gay marriage question. And like I said, there was a neutral way that she could have answered it.
I applaud her courage to be so convicted, and I don't particularly care whether she answers yes or no that she agrees. The issue is just that as Miss America, or as Miss USA rather, you have to be prepared to represent the entire country and not alienate one sector. She alienated a large sector last week.
MARTIN: It was interesting. Had she said I agree with same-sex marriage, she would alienate the other side. So either way, she would have been --
SNOWDEN: That's why neutrality is the key.
MARTIN: I got you. But let's go to the phone lines. Melinda from Dalton, Georgia -- Melinda, what's your comment?
MELINDA, GEORGIA (via telephone): Hi. I think it's absolutely ridiculous. I was raised to think that in this country I could have my own belief system, my own thoughts and if you didn't agree with me, well, that was your privilege. And I think to condemn someone because they don't believe as you do and they're honest about it is both pathetic and a little bit scary.
MARTIN: All right, Melinda, thanks a bunch.
Show Me State, Shawn in St. Louis. Shawn, what's your comment?
SHAWN, ST. LOIUS (via telephone): I feel Miss California did the right thing. She spoke from her heart and she did not give in to the pressure. She stood behind her morals. I respect her for that and not just saying the political correct answer.
MARTIN: All right. Shawn, thanks a bunch.
Let's go to Finleyville, Pennsylvania -- John.
JOHN, PENNSYLVANIA (via telephone): Yes.
MARTIN: OK.
JOHN: I agree with Miss California. Questions about gay marriage should not be asked in a USA pageant. I am a Christian person. I know some gay people that I like. They're nice people. Civil unions are OK, but I don't agree with same-sex marriage.
MARTIN: OK. I appreciate your phone call.
Here's one on Facebook. Reggie Jones wrote, "Why does it seem that people are harshly ridiculed for voicing their position on gay rights and same-sex marriages? Miss California's comments were honest and unfiltered and I believe as a result cost her the Miss USA crown."
Nicole writes -- we're actually going to follow it in a moment. We've got lots of folks on the phone lines. People on Facebook and Twitter, so we'll actually get those comments when we come right back.
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MARTIN: Hey, folks, we're back with VH-1 News host Janell Snowden. Also, Erica Hill joins us. And all kinds of folks commenting left and right on this Miss California story.
Erica, what are they saying on Facebook?
HILL: This is a comment from Nicole on Facebook, Roland, who writes, "I believe it did cost her. Everyone has a belief and an opinion these days and evidently what she said is no longer politically correct. But that was her belief and it should be respected no matter what."
MARTIN: Janell, a lot of people also hitting Perez Hilton really hard for his reaction to her comment.
SNOWDEN: Yes, his reaction didn't necessarily help his cause.
MARTIN: Calling her the "b" (ph) word.
SNOWDEN: I know. I couldn't believe he said that. But then, again, if you know Perez you can kind of believe it. I think that it was harsh all the way around.
I think that her opinion while yes valid and while she's certainly entitled to it was a bit harsh by some standards, but I think that Perez's was even more so. So in the end, she wins.
MARTIN: All right. Folks, tomorrow, we'll have -- first of all, I want to thank Erica as well as Janell.
Tomorrow, we'll have more on this story. Miss California, Carrie Prejean, will be here to tell us her story in her own words.
I want to thank all of you who called and e-mailed your comment. Remember, your voices are important. We love hearing from you.
"LARRY KING LIVE" is up next.
