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Campbell Brown
President Obama Outlines New Fuel Standards; Credit Card Reform
Aired May 19, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, folks.
Giving your car, and, yes, your wallet, a tuneup, the White House says forcing automakers to build better, cleaner cars will save you lots of money, but not everyone is so sure.
And the credit card debt trap. Will proposed reforms save Americans money?
That's just some of what we're talking about tonight with CNN anchor and correspondent Erica Hill, chief business correspondent Ali Velshi, national political correspondent Jessica Yellin, and Lisa Bloom, "In Session" anchor and CNN legal analyst.
Folks, on the front burner, the new rules requiring the next generation of cars and trucks to get better gas mileage. Now, that will cost you -- trust me, it will -- and the people building your next car as well, but more money in the short term.
Down the road, President Barack Obama is counting on these changes to help clean the air and rebuild the economy. So, here he is sounding like, well, a used car salesman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If you buy a car, your investment in a more fuel-efficient vehicle as a result of this standard will pay off in just three years. In three years time, you will have paid off the additional investment required.
So, this is a winning proposition for folks looking to buy a car.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: He may want to have a better marketing commercial if you want to use that sound bite.
(CROSSTALK)
ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: ... audio, yes.
MARTIN: There you go.
Ali, start us off with a look as to what's going on here in these new guidelines set by the president.
VELSHI: All right. Well, this is -- it's more complicated than you might think. You might think this is obvious, right?
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Washington, complicated? No.
VELSHI: Well, here's the problem with fuel-efficiency. There's three things that you want to achieve when you deal with higher fuel- efficiency standards.
One is lower cost in the long run for people who drive. Two is energy security. We -- we import most of the oil that we use in the United States. And American drivers -- that's trucks and cars -- account for 10 percent of the world's oil production on a daily basis.
And the third thing, of course, is the environmental impact. So, here's what the rule is going to do. It's going to take the average fuel-efficiency of a fleet of cars -- and it's a very complicated mathematical proposition to figure that out -- from 25 miles a gallon now to 35-and-a-half miles per gallon by 2013.
That advances the goal by four years from what was proposed by Congress a couple of years ago. That's going to be the first thing it does.
Now, keep in mind, the U.S. is simply not a leader on fuel- efficiency standards. Now, that doesn't mean -- on fuel economy. It doesn't mean that we're not good at a lot of things when it comes to cars, but we are aiming for 35.5 miles per gallon by 2016. Japan will achieve 35.5 miles per gallon by 2010. And the European Union will achieve 47 miles per gallon by 2012.
Again, these are all places that drive different types of cars. So, that's what we're looking at. Now, let's just give you a sense of what 35.5 miles per gallon is.
Let's start with Roland.
Roland, you're always talking about your -- your Navigator.
MARTIN: Yes, absolutely.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: You have got a Lincoln Navigator.
LISA BLOOM, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Oh, boy.
MARTIN: I have got four nieces, a wife. I need room.
VELSHI: When you blend the highway and city mileage on a Navigator, you get 16 miles per gallon. It's a nice ride, I will give you that.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: I need the room. (LAUGHTER)
VELSHI: Jessica, who, one would argue, doesn't need the room, is looking at a Toyota Prius, which is a hybrid...
(LAUGHTER)
VELSHI: and really the gold standard when it comes to hybrid. The new one there will get you a blended average of 46 miles per gallon...
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: ... three times what the Navigator will get you.
What does 35.5 miles per gallon -- 35 miles per gallon right now will give you a -- in a gas engine -- this is not a hybrid, a gas engine -- this is the Coupe. It's the 4.2. It's the smart car. There are a lot of cars edging up in that direction.
MARTIN: Yes.
MARTIN: And, again, this is fleet averages. So, you're not going to see a whole bunch of cars with 35 miles a gallon, but you might see some with maybe 40, 50, 60, maybe 100.
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: But they're not all going to look like a smart car either. Let's be clear.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Where do I put my four nieces? I can't...
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: You can't fit two in there.
VELSHI: The idea is, if you get the technology going, you get the technology going, you could actually have that Navigator built a little differently with a different engine, different technology. But that technology will become cheaper, so you have actually big cars that are more fuel-efficient.
MARTIN: All right. Ali, thanks a bunch.
Even though the carmakers finally agreed to the new rules, that isn't settling the debate.
With us now from Washington is Sam Kazman, general counsel for the Competitive Enterprise Institute. They oppose the Obama plan. And Fred Krupp, president of the Environmental Defense Fund. He was shaking his head over here, saying, yes, Ali is right. He's a consultant with the White House on the new policy.
Now, Fred, people hear this news and they might automatically say, hey, all cars, 35 miles per gallon. But the reality is -- Ali mentioned it -- fleet. So, what does this really mean for the average person sitting at home when they hear this new standard?
FRED KRUPP, ENVIRONMENTAL DEFENSE FUND: It means there's going to be more choices, just like Ali said. It means you are going to be able to get SUVs and even bigger cars that will be a lot more fuel- efficient.
It means that the average person is going to save a lot of money at the pump. So, while there will be a small bump in increase in manufacturing costs, it will be much better for the consumers at the pump.
MARTIN: Wow. Did I hear Sam sighing over there?
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
MARTIN: I mean, Sam, what was going on there? What is the problem? He said it could be cheaper, better cars, more choices. What's the beef?
SAM KAZMAN, COMPETITIVE ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: And all our children will be above average in intelligence.
Look, any time you see the auto industry shake hands with the administration on a deal like this, consumers should run for the hills. If these technologies are so great, if they're going to pay back for themselves in three years, five years, whatever, you do not need a federal mandate to get consumers to buy them.
And if you do have a mandate, there's a good suspicion that these technologies are not what they're cracked up to be.
And, in fact, they are not. It was only four weeks ago that the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety ran crash tests showing that minicars are much, much worse in crash worthiness than mid-sized cars.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Sam, Sam, Sam...
(CROSSTALK)
KAZMAN: And, so, this is one big problem.
CAFE standards kill people. And now they're going to be killing the auto industry as well.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Sam, Sam, one second.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: There's a lot going on there.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: I have got to figure out, is your problem 35 miles per gallon or is it the federal mandate? Exactly what is your problem? It seems to be the government setting the rules you have a problem with.
KAZMAN: That's -- that's because that -- the government is placing all its bets and it's forcing all of consumers' choices on what it sees as a good car, when in fact there's no reason for that at all.
VELSHI: Let me throw Sam a bone on this one.
Sam, first of all, I get what you're saying about bigger cars being safer. And Humvees are safer than passenger cars. And Bradley Fighting Vehicles are the safest of all, but that's not how we're going to get around. Europeans do just fine in small cars.
Let me tell you this, though. Sam is right. There is nothing that achieved greater fuel-efficiency in America than $4-a-gallon gasoline.
MARTIN: You're right.
VELSHI: That's when people made their own decisions.
(CROSSTALK)
KAZMAN: So, some combination of less access to gasoline or higher prices for gas, I'm sure, Sam, you're not going to like that either, but the reality is, you need consumer choice to drive this and you do need some government mandate.
KAZMAN: Right.
And the big problem is, if we get gasoline staying at affordable prices, under $3 a gallon, you are going to get the government going through twists and turns to figure out some way to raise the price of the gasoline to get some of the bite out of these CAFE standards.
And if they're not honest enough to admit that they would love to see higher-priced gasoline, they have got no business using smoke and mirrors.
(CROSSTALK)
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: All right, let's bring in Fred into this conversation.
Look, Ali just mentioned that the Europeans are going to get 47 miles per gallon. The U.S. isn't even aiming for that in this. Why shouldn't the U.S. be held to even higher standards than what the president is suggesting?
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Sam, one second. Sam, one second.
Fred, go ahead.
KRUPP: This is a huge step in the right direction.
In terms of breaking the back of oil addiction, this is the biggest thing to happen since the 1973 Arab oil embargo.
KAZMAN: Oh, come on.
KRUPP: And the amazing thing about this is that the president, Barack Obama, is doing this with the auto companies.
We should be celebrating, because this is the way we need things to happen in Washington.
KAZMAN: Right.
KRUPP: This is going to be a model for how we proceed on climate change in the bigger bill.
BLOOM: I mean, Sam, look...
(CROSSTALK)
KAZMAN: Excuse me. Wait, wait.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Sam, Sam, Sam, here's Lisa.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: ... question for you.
BLOOM: Oh, wait. OK. Hi, Sam. I'm Lisa. How are you?
So, we know, from all the world scientific consensus, that climate change is the biggest threat to our children that is out there. At what point do we put politics aside and say we're going to get serious about that?
KAZMAN: That consensus is breaking down by day by day. In the last decade, even though this alleged poison gas, CO2, has been actually increasing in terms of atmospheric levels, in the last decade, there has been no warming whatsoever, which is something that none of these much-ballyhooed climate models ever predicted.
BLOOM: OK.
KAZMAN: And, so, that's why you have got enviros talking not so much about global warming, but about climate change, which is totally unverifiable.
HILL: Sam, let's talk about business for a second, though. You're worried that this is actually not going to help the car companies, but the car companies aren't exactly in a great spot right now.
And we should point out, GM came out on Monday and said, look, they're already exceeding what -- what the guidelines were for this year. So, if they're not in a great spot, why not put every U.S. automaker on a level playing field, let them turn out the same cars, let the consumer decide? And it's not like they're all going to be minicars.
KAZMAN: Wait a second.
There's no reason to think that politicians who have never sold a car, let alone built one, are really the experts here at automotive engineering. I would rather see the administration try to attempt brain surgery than to redesign a car.
HILL: But they control the car companies.
(CROSSTALK)
KRUPP: The president's found a way to bring together the governors who wanted high fuel economies, the car companies, not just the American car companies, but BMW, Porsche, Mercedes are all part of it. They found a consensus way to go forward.
Global warming is a very real threat. The world has warmed. This is a great day, a real breakthrough for America.
MARTIN: Last question.
Fred, what kind of car do you drive?
KRUPP: Prius.
MARTIN: Sam?
KAZMAN: Yes, I didn't catch the question.
MARTIN: What kind of car do you drive?
KAZMAN: I drive a CR-V.
MARTIN: All right.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Just checking.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Because, you know, if you drove a Prius, I would be saying, what's going on, Sam?
All right, Sam Kazman and Fred Krupp, we certainly appreciate it. Thanks a bunch, folks.
Folks, go to CNNMoney.com to hear directly from one car executive who stood right alongside President Obama as he rolled out the new policy. He's in charge of U.S. sales for Toyota. He gives us his take. That's at CNNMoney.com.
President Barack Obama says the average American carries more than $7,000 in credit card debt. So, you might be thrilled to hear the government's about to overhaul the way credit companies do business. But hold on one second. Even if you're not in over your head, this is one time, trust me, you will want to check the fine print.
And one-time NFL star Michael Vick is about to be a free man after his dogfighting conviction, but does that mean he has a right to get his old job back?
Charmane says, why not?
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CHARMANE: I believe Michael Vick should be given a second chance because his punishment was too severe to begin with.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
MARTIN: Should Michael Vick get a second chance? Give us a call, 1-877-NO-BULL-0. That's 1-877-662-8550. Drop me an e-mail, Roland@CNN.com. You can hit me on Twitter and Facebook, and also hit Ali while you're at it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
MARTIN: Ali, what was that? Can we get a shot of that again?
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: We want the people to keep watching, Ali.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: OK. All right. That's the way they roll in Canada.
(LAUGHTER)
MARTIN: Washington is very close to finally enacting credit card reform. The Senate overwhelmingly passed a bill today that the House is expected to approve and send to the president this week.
But it looks like the big providers of plastic aren't about to let that cut into their profits.
And, if you're a responsible customer, Erica, trust me... HILL: Thank you, Roland.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: ... just, you know, you need to hear what's coming.
And Jessica Yellin is here to break it down for us.
All right, Jessica, what's the latest?
YELLIN: OK, Roland, this credit card bill actually passed the Senate 90-5. And it is likely to get to the president's desk before this weekend, which is what he asked for.
Now, the bill is designed to protect you from unexpected rate increases. And here are just some of the ways it will do it. If you don't pay your bill for 60 days, then and only then can they raise your rates. No time before then. If they do raise your rates, the company has to go back to charging you your original lower interest rate after you have been current for payments for six months.
Companies also have to give consumers 45 days' notice before a rate hike goes into effect. And this is a big one. The bill makes it harder for credit card companies to charge anyone and give anyone a credit card under the age of 21. They're trying to prevent any early debt.
OK, so, that's what consumers get. There were some huge concessions to banks. The biggie, this is the one everyone's crowing about, rate caps on APRs, on interest rates, are not going to happen. So, a credit card company can charge you any interest rate they choose.
Both attempts -- there were two attempts to cap it -- failed. Delaying charges for -- changes for 90 days. Now, originally, all the effects of this bill were going to kick in 90 days from the day it passes. No longer. Credit card companies have 10 months to lock in new rates.
And, then, finally, the fine print rule we have heard a lot about, saying credit card companies have to make it legible, have to make your contract legible, eh, not so much. They can stick with the fine print.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: So, this has come at a huge moment, because so many folks are defaulting on credit cards right now.
YELLIN: Yes. Defaults are increasing. They are going up, not surprisingly, given our economic situation.
Credit card companies actually are profiting by -- by charging us all these late payments. Increasingly, the White House points to statistics that show Americans pay about $15 billion every year in penalty fees. And that's about 10 percent of the industry's profit. So, they make a good 10 percent of their profit by counting on all of us to default and pay -- sorry -- counting on all of us to pay late.
MARTIN: So, they don't mind when all that happens.
Now, Ali...
HILL: Love it.
MARTIN: ... now, here's what's interesting about the bank companies. They're saying, oh, if this happens, we are going to have to freeze credit. The people who are doing well, frankly, we're not going to be -- we're going to have to raise rates on them.
VELSHI: Yes.
MARTIN: I mean, is it a credible argument?
VELSHI: It is. And, you know, everything Jessica said was very accurate, except that some of this has -- some of these people who have not been paying their bills have been not paying them because they have been hit by the economy. Some people have just been irresponsible with credit.
And the fact is, we are having to pay for all that. These are companies that are in the business for profit. And if everybody were just doing it the way they were supposed to be doing, they would be making their money...
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: But they depend upon the irresponsible people. They love late payments.
VELSHI: Well, if it's a fine line. If you're a credit -- if you're a lender, you -- you want to exist somewhere between the people who never, ever use credit, and always pay their bill on time, and a few people who, you know, pay these fees and do things like that.
The problem is, we have skewed all the way to one side, where it's far more people who are not able to pay their bills.
BLOOM: But, Ali, I always hear the credit card companies complaining about the people who pay on time. They don't make any money off of those people.
VELSHI: Yes.
HILL: Right.
BLOOM: Don't they still make a couple percentage points from the venders on each sale?
VELSHI: Yes. Well, they make -- they make money a few ways. They make money when you buy something from a vender. BLOOM: Right.
VELSHI: They make money because they -- they charge all sorts of different fees. You might have a fee, a membership fee, for instance, or maybe somebody else is covering your membership fee...
BLOOM: An annual fee.
VELSHI: ... but they have got some kind of program with the credit card company.
So, it's not that the credit card companies wouldn't be making money. They are saying, though, that they have been squeezed. And a lot of the increases that regular good credit people are feeling has been because of that.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: But how -- but how does that work out? Because, again, to Lisa's point, this is something -- and I know we have been talking about this all day -- that I don't get.
So, I pay my bill on time.
VELSHI: Yes.
HILL: And even the American Bankers Association coming out today and saying, look, those people who have been able to manage their credit are going to have to subsidize the rest of the people.
VELSHI: Yes.
HILL: Yet, there was this GAO report in 2005 that found 70 percent of their revenue in 2005 was coming from interest charges. So -- so, how is this that all of a sudden now I have to do more?
VELSHI: It's the same reason people were giving out these -- these subprime mortgages. As long as you thought, ultimately, someone would pay, you could do well with the higher interest and you could do well with the late fees.
The problem is, this economy has tipped over to not just being about people having difficulty paying on time; it's people not paying at all. We're paying for the defaults.
YELLIN: But the outrage is that the gravy for these companies is in the penalties.
HILL: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
YELLIN: What you cited is that revenues do come in from interest. But you're a good payer, they're not making a lot of money on your interest.
BLOOM: But aren't they still making billions of dollars in profits?
YELLIN: Yes, but not as many billions as they like.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: Well, how many billions is not enough billions?
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Lisa, they want $12 billion, not $3 billion.
HILL: More billions than we will ever make.
BLOOM: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
MARTIN: Ali, here is the thing that bothers me.
VELSHI: How did I get in the position of defending the credit card companies?
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: No, no, you're not defending...
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: You're simply offering information. We can't beat up on anybody else right now.
All right, Ali, but here's the problem that I have with this. And that is, we are a society this is built upon credit.
VELSHI: Yes.
MARTIN: Right now, if you have got a credit score of 600, 620, they want you to be above 700.
VELSHI: Right.
MARTIN: If you can't get a credit card, they say, a good customer, we're not going to give it to you, well, then guess what?
VELSHI: Yes.
MARTIN: You can't increase your credit score, so, frankly, you're screwed.
VELSHI: You are. But we might just have to get used to the fact that there's going to be less credit floating around for all of us in the future.
If you don't have 700 or 750 credit score, you just may not be able to buy things on credit the way you could.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: All right, fine. Let's change the credit card companies.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: Or that we might get penalized for being good with our credit, and not...
VELSHI: Absolutely.
HILL: Because the more credit cards you have, ultimately, sometimes, the better your credit score, even if you're not necessarily managing your money well.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: If you have too much money, your credit score goes lower. If, all of a sudden, you start closing those and you have got too much debt relative to your credit, your credit score goes down.
Remember, the credit scores are determined by the companies that work for the credit -- the companies that loan you money.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: And won't tell us exactly how...
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: There's a whole 'nother discussion to be had about whether the credit scores are accurate.
BLOOM: But people are saving more now. Might they go back to, God forbid, paying cash?
MARTIN: Oh, no.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: How dare you, Lisa?
YELLIN: You can't -- you can't at some hotels. They won't let you pay cash.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: Well, you need a credit card for -- but you don't have to charge it. You just have to be able to have a card that can take some money off.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: I'm sorry. (CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: People are moving toward layaway.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: On planes sometimes, they only take credit cards.
MARTIN: The system a fraud. I'm sorry. When you -- when they're forcing you, when you have to take credit, but they don't want to give you credit, and I have got to raise my score.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: We all did. We all did. The point is, we all subscribed to the idea.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: Right? We all took more credit than we should.
MARTIN: All right.
VELSHI: We have to all share in the pain on this one.
MARTIN: All right. Well, I like paying in cash, but then, of course, my credit score is low.
(LAUGHTER)
MARTIN: All right, Ali.
Folks, hang on. folks, in a minute, we will tell you what the credit card controversy has to do with guns. Yes, there's a connection. And we will break it down when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: All right, folks, we're back, talking about the credit card reform bill. And there is one part we haven't hit yet, the part about guns. Oh, yes, guns.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: You can buy guns with a credit card?
HILL: Yes.
MARTIN: Right.
HILL: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: All right, well, credit cards, guns completely separate issues on the same bill right now in Washington. Here's Jessica breaking it down for us, explaining how in the world this happens.
YELLIN: OK. So, attached to this credit card bill is a provision that will now allow Americans, anyone, to carry loaded weapons into national parks.
VELSHI: I get it. I totally get it.
HILL: Concealed weapons.
YELLIN: Concealed weapons. And it can be loaded.
So, first, let's explain what the actual law does. The reason they say they passed this is because there are currently highways that go through national parks. And, sometimes, if you're allowed to carry a weapon in the car, and you get stopped by police, you can get in trouble, because you have this gun with you, and they want to change that law.
HILL: Right.
MARTIN: Right.
YELLIN: The question, though, you want to know is, what is it doing on...
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: How did it get in there?
(CROSSTALK)
YELLIN: Right.
HILL: Because they seem to have a lot to do with one another.
YELLIN: I know.
But, you know, the simple answer is, this is how the Senate works. Any member is allowed to attach any amendment to any bill they want. And let's give you some examples of the times this has happened before. We have a couple of examples that we're going to put up on the wall.
This recent bailout bill, you remember the TARP? In 2008, that was attached to a mental health bill. Mental health parity, what does that have to do with Wall Street bailouts? In 2007, Democrats tried attaching two different amendments that would stop funding for the war in Iraq or control it to a must-pass water bill for water projects.
HILL: Right.
YELLIN: Right? OK, and then I really like this one. A bill in 2006 that essentially shut down online gambling was attached to a very popular port security bill that was designed to prevent terrorists from smuggling nuclear weapons into the U.S. So, online gambling, nuclear terrorism...
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: And it always seems to be things that you can't -- I mean, it would be hard -- there were five dissenting votes today in the Senate, but it's very hard for a senator to say, you can't vote against...
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: Right.
YELLIN: They did have a chance to vote independently on the gun amendment to begin with. And that's one of the reasons they have them, is that so you can be forced to go on the record on one of these issues. Even if they think it will go down, let's say they want to force an issue. That senator will bring it up, force you to vote on the amendment. It failed, but it gave them an opportunity to put you on the record.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: And when it goes to the House, it can be severed and voted on separately in the House, right?
YELLIN: And that is what is going to happen tomorrow. They expect this to be separate votes, one on the gun bill, one on the credit card bill, in the House, but they think they will both pass.
BLOOM: Wow.
MARTIN: That's the way our Congress works.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: It seems a little inefficient.
MARTIN: That's what they do.
VELSHI: But this happens a lot.
You have given us three examples.
YELLIN: Right.
VELSHI: But it's actually remarkably common. It's not like somebody sits there and I say, hey, I know you guys are doing this credit card bill today. I have this great gun thing. Can we put it in there? And somebody says, Velshi, you're a lunatic. This is actually is more normal than not.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: Right. This is what happens. This is the way it gets made. YELLIN: In fact, the senator, Coburn, who pushed this has promoted it over and over and over again, tried to get it attached to so many bills. They thought it would never happen. This time, guess what? It worked.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: But he's also a very big -- I mean, both he and Senator Obama back in 2006 worked together on transparency. They were very big on transparency. Does this not fall under the umbrella of transparency, which the president has also championed?
(CROSSTALK)
YELLIN: It seems illogical or incongruous, but it's transparent. You know they voted.
MARTIN: Right.
YELLIN: That's the whole point...
HILL: Ah.
(CROSSTALK)
YELLIN: ... is to put you on the record.
BLOOM: People who love the law and sausage should not watch either one being made.
YELLIN: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
BLOOM: That's the famous line. This is how it get done, folks.
MARTIN: All right.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: Roland, what do you think about this?
MARTIN: I think Jessica did a great job giving us our civics lesson.
YELLIN: Thank you.
MARTIN: How our Congress works. Shocker. They do these things.
(LAUGHTER)
MARTIN: All right, folks, there are dramatic new developments in a story we first brought you yesterday. A 13-year-old boy who was under court order to see a doctor about chemotherapy, even though his parents object, well, right now, the cops are looking for the boy's mother. We will tell you why when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: All right, folks. That's "I Like" by Guy, Teddy Riley's old's group.
Morris H. (ph) on Facebook sent that request in.
Jessica, did you approve?
YELLIN: Oh, I liked that.
MARTIN: OK. All right. Just checking. You are the deejay.
All right, folks, he gets out of prison in a matter of days, maybe hours, Michael Vick, gifted athlete, convicted felony. After 19 months in federal prison for backing a dogfighting ring, funding it, really, a man who once made over $23 million a year in football has only a $10-an-hour job in construction lined up, unless you believe in second chances.
Anyone believe in second chances?
BLOOM: I do.
YELLIN: Wow. A $10-an-hour job?
BLOOM: I do believe in second chances.
MARTIN: OK.
What do you think, Ali? Interesting story here.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: Yes, I'm working out what I think. I do believe in second chances. I do believe that professional sports should have some clearer rules on how they deal with...
(CROSSTALK)
YELLIN: But you're the animal lover. I'm shocked.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: I could not be more of an animal rights person, lifelong vegetarian.
VELSHI: Yes.
BLOOM: I despise what he did. But, in our system, you do the time, you get a second chance. And what's the alternative? He should be a ward of the state? And everybody else who serves less than life sentences, they should never be reemployed?
VELSHI: Well, but nobody's saying -- nobody's saying he should not hold any employment ever in life. Does he just get to be a very highly paid professional athlete?
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: All right. Time out. We will blow the whistle to repeat -- to start the conversation later on.
All right, should Michael Vick get a second chance? Here's Albert from Des Moines.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALBERT, IOWA: I believe that Michael Vick deserves a second chance at life. Most people that have made mistakes deserve a second chance in life. So, same for Michael Vick. Right on, Michael. God bless.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
MARTIN: Dog lovers, football fans, let's hear from you tonight. Give us a call, 1-877-NO-BULL-0. That's 1-877-662-8550. Also, e-mail me your comments or hit me on Twitter and Facebook -- back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: Do we approve?
HILL: Yes.
BLOOM: Lady GaGa.
MARTIN: You know what? We need -- there's 100 days grading cards. Send those over. They're not being used right now.
HILL: They've been very impressive right here.
MARTIN: That's right.
All right, folks, Michael Vick is getting out of jail on his dogfighting offense. Should he get a second chance?
On Facebook, Kevin Hendrix (ph) says, "No. He is the worst of the worst. He is just a thug."
What do you think? Give us a call, 1-877-NO-BULL-0. That's 1- 877-662-8550. But first, Erica Hill with "The Briefing."
HILL: I want to start off with an update on a story we first brought you last night. The 13-year-old boy we told you about ordered to get chemo treatments against his parents' wishes is missing tonight.
Today, a Minnesota judge issued an arrest warrant for his mother, Colleen Hauser, after she and her son failed to appear in court. X- rays, meantime, show the boy's condition is worsening. HILL: Police in Milwaukee looking for information tonight after linking a serial killer to at least seven unsolved homicides over two decades. The unknown man's DNA has been matched to six murdered prostitutes as well as a runaway. A state lab is now looking at DNA and at least 23 other cases of plain prostitutes.
Astronauts onboard the shuttle Atlantis releasing the newly repaired Hubble Telescope back into orbit today. It's a bittersweet goodbye.
It all happened 350 miles above the coast of northwest Africa and it ends five days of repairs on what is NASA's final service mission for Hubble. Atlantis is due to return to earth on Friday where its fleet is being retired next year.
Some wild water captured by two teenage iReporters. Alex Raymond and Eric Miller spotted this giant waterspout. Check out that near Metairie, Louisiana, on Saturday. They followed it they say for about seven minutes. They told CNN it's "the coolest thing they've ever seen."
ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Dude.
BLOOM: Wow.
HILL: Ali concurs.
Ida may come in a close second, though, when it comes to cool, so, Ali, stay tuned here.
The 47 million-year-old is the most complete fossil primate ever found and could be an important missing link in the evolution chain according to scientists. One, in fact, said Ida, the nickname for the fossil, could be "our grand, grand, grand aunt. Although I'm guessing at 47 million years old, there's probably more grands in there.
Like a million or two, I don't know.
MARTIN: Just a couple.
VELSHI: What do you guys think about the fact that that might be the missing link? Does that make you happy?
I wasn't worried about it. I just thought there was a missing link.
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NATL. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: They found the contents of its stomach inside it.
BLOOM: It's so neat.
YELLIN: It's pretty amazing.
HILL: It is.
VELSHI: Listen, this is a family show. We don't need to talk about that.
HILL: And apparently, Ali Velshi, a lot of the things that you eat every day were still intact. Onion rings.
BLOOM: Nachos, Doritos.
MARTIN: Mr. Velshi, I tell you.
All right, folks, NBC couldn't get Rod Blagojevich for a reality TV show, but it might get the next best thing. No, not his hair. We'll explain, coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: All right, folks. You saw the "King." And, well, a special "LARRY KING LIVE" is just minutes away. See the connection there, Lisa.
YELLIN: Now I get it.
BLOOM: I get it. I get it.
YELLIN: I thought you were calling him a hound dog.
HILL: I did too for a minute, and I thought, that's not very nice.
MARTIN: Oh, but if you read his book, you would see that it applies.
ALL: Oh.
MARTIN: I'm just saying, you can read the book. It seems like he spent his whole life preparing for tonight's show. It's the Larry King you never knew revealed.
And Larry is taking questions from Anderson Cooper, Joy Behar and Regis Philbin. Meet the son who shares his name and hear how the two Larrys found out about each other, also in the story.
Plus, pick up Larry's new book and send in your own question. He'll answer one question each night until June. Don't miss a special "LARRY KING LIVE" at the top of the hour.
That one with Larry last night was interesting with how he wanted to end the show.
YELLIN: He's good.
BLOOM: Yes.
MARTIN: If you missed it, check out Larry having a little fun.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Now I'd like to do what you do every night, which is what? What do you say at the end?
ALL: Holla.
KING: What?
MARTIN: Holla.
KING: Holla.
MARTIN: There you go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: Oh, men.
VELSHI: Which, of course, he described as a Jewish bread.
MARTIN: Right.
YELLIN: Spelled differently.
MARTIN: I'm sorry. We couldn't help it.
All right, folks, right now, it's a great way to go to the "Political Daily Briefing" with Jessica. And, of course, we might be saying holla to about old schools, farmhouses, other places in California.
YELLIN: That's right. Tough times in California tonight as Californians are voting on six measures aimed at reducing the state's massive budget deficit. So far, the turnout there has not been very good.
California currently faces a budget shortfall of more than $15 billion. And if today's measures don't pass, it could increase to over $21 billion.
Now, if that happens, Governor Schwarzenegger says he'd be forced to make cuts to schools, health care, local governments, even firehouses. And while it seems like the governor just skipped town for the election, he actually was in Washington, D.C., in the middle of all of this. He was attending President Obama's fuel efficiency announcement, and he also took the time to lobby lawmakers in Congress for more help for California.
Now, also tonight, there's a new roadblock in the president's quest to close Guantanamo. Senate Democrats moved today to withhold funding for the prison's closure until the administration comes up with a clear plan about what to do with the more than 200 detainees. The lawmakers also made clear that no money will go towards transferring detainees to U.S. soil, a big issue.
The $80 billion had originally been part of a $91 billion war funding bill being debated in Congress. Now, importantly, the Pentagon says it's still going to go ahead with plans to close Guantanamo by January 2010, as President Obama ordered, with or without Congress's financial support.
And finally, on a lighter note, get this. Reality star Mrs. Blagojevich? Huh?
There is word today that the wife of ousted Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich, yes, has been asked to take her husband's place on NBC's upcoming show "I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here."
HILL: Oh, my.
YELLIN: Patti Blagojevich, yes, is said to be heading to L.A. this very week to discuss the deal with the network. Of course, Rod, was originally asked to participate in the show, but a judge nixed that because, oh, it films in Costa Rica and leaving the country, not so legal when he has terms applied to his bail.
BLOOM: So they better watch that seven-second button with the bleeping Mrs. B.
(CROSSTALK)
YELLIN: She might be better on TV.
HILL: She could be, potentially although --
VELSHI: Allegedly.
HILL: His hair is better, I have to be honest.
YELLIN: That story never ends.
MARTIN: You know what? On the California story, here's what I don't get. $21 billion shortfall...
YELLIN: Yes.
MARTIN: You might shut down schools and folks don't show up. I'm sorry, if you don't show up for that, what in the world would you show up for?
VELSHI: I'm a little surprised with the low turnout.
YELLIN: They don't turn out for ballot measures. There's no elected officials running for any offices.
VELSHI: This stuff might decide more about your day-to-day life in California than elected officials do.
MARTIN: And you know what? And if it fails in those school shutdown and fire places shut down, you know what's going to happen?
VELSHI: Yes.
MARTIN: They're going to be hollering and screaming. You should have gone to the polls. That's just sort of my perspective. BLOOM: Yes. The initiative process in California is complicated, though, and sometimes hard for people to figure out which way they're supposed to vote.
HILL: It is. And I will say when I lived there I remember that the booklets that you would get to tell you what each proposition meant, who was for it, who was against it, why they were in it...
VELSHI: Those measures are tough.
HILL: ... it will make your head explode.
VELSHI: Yes.
HILL: Not an excuse, but it is -- there's a lot going on.
MARTIN: All right. Lots of strong opinions. The polls are still open, right?
YELLIN: Yes.
MARTIN: OK. See, go vote. You've got time.
All right. Strong opinions tonight, folks. Should Michael Vick get a second chance?
Here's renselaas (ph) on Twitter. Can we come up with some regular names on Twitter because I'm not getting some of these? "It's one thing to harm oneself with drugs, but killing innocent creatures is entirely another. Repulsive."
Well, what do you think? Should Michael Vick get a second chance? 1-877-NO-BULL-0. 1-877-662-8550. And, of course, Roland@CNN.com and hit me on Twitter and Facebook. And use a regular name we can pronounce.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: All these sides (ph) are telling you.
All right, folks. Lots of you are fired up about this next story. We've gotten a ton of Facebook and Twitter comments, voicemail, you name it. Of course, you all remember former Atlanta Falcon's quarterback Michael Vick. He pled guilty in August 2007 to bankrolling a dogfighting operation.
Vick's 23-month sentence is up in July, but he could be released any moment to serve the rest of his time in home confinement. His attorneys say Vick will take a construction job, 10 bucks an hour. But his agent made clear today, Vick wants to return to the NFL. So the question tonight, does Michael Vick deserve a second chance in the NFL?
Erica, Ali, Jessica and Lisa are back along with Jane Velez- Mitchell, host of "Issues" on HLN, as well as David Cornwell, president of DNK Cornwell, a law firm that represents professional athletes. He's in Atlanta, of course. Their agents, executives and companies involved in sports and entertainment.
All right, David, former coach Tony Dungy had this to say after he went to visit Michael Vick in prison recently. "I think Michael is just like so many other guys that I have seen, so many other people who are nameless, faceless in that environment. It's a young man that made a mistake and is looking for a chance to recover and move forward."
Should he have the right to come back and play in the NFL after paying his debt to society?
DAVID CORNWELL, PRESIDENT, DNK CORNWELL: Absolutely. At the end of his sentence in July, Michael will have served 23 months in prison. He will have lost most if not all of his wealth. He will have fallen from being one of America's most popular athletes to being state property with a number on his back.
I can't imagine that there's anything else that he can do to repay his debts to society or anything more that the commissioner could ask him to do to demonstrate his remorse. Michael should be allowed to play when he's ready to play at the end of July.
MARTIN: Jane, now, folks out there are saying --
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST OF HLN'S "ISSUES": Absolutely not.
MARTIN: Why? Why? He was given a sentence.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Because this is sadism with a capital "S." This was not a momentary lapse in judgment, Roland. This was a massive criminal enterprise that went on for years.
They seized 66 dogs on the property. These dogs were electrocuted. These dogs were slammed to the ground and killed. These dogs were hanged. That is sadism with a capital "S."
CORNWELL: Each of those factors were taken into consideration when the judge imposed a 23-month sentence.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you don't stop being a sadist just because you served time in jail.
MARTIN: OK, but Jane --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: For his own sake, he needs to get therapy. He needs to understand why he had these violent impulses.
MARTIN: Jane, OK, help me out. He pled guilty. He was sentenced. He served his time. So in essence, are you saying, well, serve more time after you've already served your time?
VELEZ- MITCHELL: No.
MARTIN: Why can't he go back?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Because of the kids. MARTIN: What do you mean because of the kids?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Because when you're an NFL star, you're a role model. And to say to kids, it's OK to engage in sadistic torture and killing and you will again be a star is to send the worst message we can to kids.
(CROSSTALK)
CORNWELL: I can't imagine --
HILL: I just want to point out, though, a number -- I just want to point out a number of the calls we got now. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was just told in my ear before we came back from the break, a number of the calls we've gotten tonight, actually from children who are saying, we want to see him back.
So what if, Jane, what if the NFL works with him? What if they say, you can come back, you have to get counseling? As you say, you have to understand why what you did was wrong and you have to make kids somehow understand that this is never, ever, ever a good idea.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look, I don't think that you get rid of a sadistic tendency like this. These dogs -- you don't have these dogfights usually end with one dog dying. You know how violent that is?
BLOOM: That's how they ended here. I mean, that's how they ended here. These dogs were doused in water, electrocuted. I mean, it was sick.
And, David, here's the problem.
MARTIN: David, David --
BLOOM: David, don't we need him to show some real remorse? Whatever he does in the future, we don't want to just call this a mistake.
CORNWELL: Absolutely.
BLOOM: A mistake is going through a stop sign.
CORNWELL: When he pled guilty, he showed genuine remorse. He will have served 23 months in prison and fallen from grace from $123 million contract. I can't imagine a greater punishment for a man to suffer.
What message would it be sending to a kid to say, because you didn't drink your milk, you must go to your room for the night and we will forgive you.
(CROSSTALK)
And then he comes out and he says, you know what, that's not enough. I don't see any distinction between one or the other. VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is (INAUDIBLE). Sadistic, sadistic torture. When you take a dog and you slam its body to the ground --
CORNWELL: The judge decided -- the judge decided that 23 months was an appropriate punishment. This is a federal judge.
Who are we to second-guess that? Because for some reason, we think, it was sadistic.
VELSHI: David, do you agree with this?
CORNWELL: No question it was repulsive conduct. But he paid his debt.
VELSHI: And somebody who represents these entertainment figures (ph) and sports fans, do you actually believe that they're role models for kids, or are they money making machines and that's why he's going to get back into the NFL?
CORNWELL: Money making machines -- for better or worse, there is a role model obligation that each and every one of them have. And don't forget what Joel Segal (ph) said today. "Michael is not focused on football right now. He's focused on family and rebuilding his life. When it's time, he'll seek reinstatement."
He has also already reached an agreement to work with the Humane Society to put public service announcements out against dogfighting.
MARTIN: All right.
CORNWELL: So he's demonstrated not only now that I've paid my debt to society, I'm going to try to do something positive moving forward beyond playing football.
MARTIN: David, hold tight one second. Lots more conversation, folks. Don't go anywhere. Your calls and comments coming up next.
Michael Vick, what's next for him now that he's done his time, or soon to be released?
Chris said it's time to turn the other cheek.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS, FROM N. CAROLINA (via telephone): Of course, Mike Vick should get another chance. There are people who do it every day and are caught doing it and don't get the type of sentence that he got. I'm sure they're trying to make an example of him. Yes, he's been a junkie in the past, but everyone deserves to get a second chance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: Should Michael Vick get a second chance in the NFL? 1- 877-NO-BULL-0. 1-877-662-8550. E-mail me and your comments or hit me up on Twitter and Facebook.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: All right, folks, we're back. And, of course, the folks in the NFL who have been convicted of beating their wives and DUIs, you name it. So the question is, Michael Vick, of course, he was found guilty, bankrolling a dogfighting ring. Does he deserve a second chance back with the NFL?
Erica, Ali, Jessica and Lisa are back along with Jane Velez- Mitchell and sports attorney, David Cornwell. I'm going right to the phone lines.
Let's go to Kiki from Tulsa, Oklahoma.
KIKI, OKLAHOMA (via telephone): Please, let's not even use the term "second chance," because Michael Vick wasn't elected for a public office post. Michael is an outstanding and competent athlete who made a mistake and paid for it.
NFL is a business and whomever owns the team should be able to have him if they so wish. So if you are perfect, go ahead and throw the first stone at Michael Vick.
MARTIN: All right. Thanks a bunch.
Eric in Coco Beach, Florida. Eric?
ERIC, FLORIDA (via telephone): I absolutely think that he shouldn't be given another chance to play in the NFL. A second chance, sure, for life, that's fine. But as far as to play in the NFL, he needs to set an example for the future and the kids coming up in the world. And I definitely think he's leaving a bad example and it's those dogs don't get a second chance in life because they're dead and their throats are ripped out.
MARTIN: All right. Eric, thanks so much.
Ron, Colts Neck, New Jersey. Ron?
RON, NEW JERSEY (via telephone): Yes, I definitely think that he should get a second chance. This seems to me that this is like the worst punishment that any sports person in the last two decades has received.
If they're alcoholic or they have a drug problem, they go to rehab, they may lose a few games or half a season. But the punishment, two years in jail, he's paid a big price. Compulsive gamblers like, you know --
MARTIN: All right. OK. All right, Ron, thanks a bunch.
Richard in L.A. -- Richard, what's your comment?
RICHARD, CALIFORNIA (via telephone): People make this sound like he made one mistake, but he made this type repeatedly over and over and over. And playing in the NFL is not a right, it's a privilege, because these players, unfortunately, are looked at as role models. So is that the kind of role model that you would want your children to look up to?
MARTIN: All right. Richard, thanks so much.
Marion, Poughkeepsie, New York. Marion?
MARION, NEW YORK (via telephone): I don't believe that he deserves a second chance at football. His inhumane treatment of his dogs gave them no chance at all.
MARTIN: All right. We certainly appreciate it. Marion, thanks a lot.
Lisa?
BLOOM: All right. David, everybody is talking about him being a role model. Doesn't Michael Vick, like me, have a morals cause in his contract?
CORNWELL: Actually, there is an obligation not to engage in conduct that casts the NFL in a bad light. He has to sit down with the commissioner and demonstrate that going forward, I will conduct myself in a manner that's consistent with the standard imposed by NFL players and professional athletes generally.
But how can we figure out if he's capable of doing that until we give him the opportunity to get back on the field? But there's no question, he should, excuse my pun, be on a short leash. And if he doesn't conduct himself --
MARTIN: No. But, you're right. Look --
CORNWELL: If he doesn't conduct himself appropriately, I think the commission will take appropriate action.
MARTIN: Adam "Pacman" Jones, any of the athletes who have gotten in trouble with the law, Roger Goodell suspended them and they have to prove they can actually come back. The bottom line is I don't understand if you're being sentenced and you served your time, why you can't get another shot?
CORNWELL: Exactly.
BLOOM: Because some professions have a higher standard.
MARTIN: What?
YELLIN: They say people who want to forgive Michael Vick aren't convinced as forgiving felons in general. Felons do not do very well when they get out of jail. They can't get jobs. There's not a lot of understanding. This does seem to be a double standard.
CORNWELL: It's not a question. It's a question of --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Roland, I believe in redemption.
MARTIN: David, one second. David, one second. VELEZ-MITCHELL: I do believe in redemption. I'm not going to write anybody off forever. But you don't just get out of jail and then get your NFL job back if he really wants to change...
MARTIN: But he's not.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wait a second. Let him work with the Humane Society for five years. Let him put his boots on the ground. Let him go to schools. Let him talk to kids about what he did wrong, and then let's see --
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Wait, Jane, wait for five years?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: If you do it just to get the payoff, then how do we know he's really remorseful?
CORNWELL: The average life of an NFL player is 3.5 years.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That shouldn't be in prison. It should be something he wants to do.
BLOOM: An NFL player's time is very short.
CORNWELL: 3.5 years is the average life of an NFL player.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, there are consequences.
HILL: Can I ask a quick question here? And maybe, David, this is best directed to you. I mean, is there a team, you think, that is going to take the chance on him right now because he comes with a lot of baggage?
CORNWELL: He certainly comes with a lot of baggage, but when the rubber hits the road, the question will be, can he play?
VELSHI: Yes.
CORNWELL: And if he can play quarterback --
HILL: But can they really even market him? Even if he can play, what about the money?
CORNWELL: I don't think he's going to be looking at $100 million contract by any stretch of the imagination. He's likely to play for a minimum salary contract with a bunch of incentives and if he can play quarterback, they'll give him the chance. If he has to play another position, he'll be asked to do it.
MARTIN: Yes.
BLOOM: And he filed for bankruptcy, by the way.
MARTIN: In the NFL, you come back win 10, 12 games, baby, you're going to get paid. Folks, we'll be right back in a moment. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: All right, folks, should Michael Vick be allowed to come back to the NFL? What say you?
Our panel, of course, is weighing in. Here's what kacaya on Twitter said. "I think that Michael Vick should be given a second chance, but not a third. Let's see if he's learned his lesson."
Freshta on Facebook said, "Most of the dogs he killed and tortured did not get a second chance."
What's also interesting about this, look, you know, Jamal Lewis, running back for the Baltimore Ravens, involved in a drug deal, went to prison, served time, came back to halfway house, came back to the NFL. And so it's not like the NFL has not seen folks who've been convicted of crimes.
HILL: No, but people look at animals differently and that's something I know. I learned in covering this case and I think probably everybody else. And you will have people come on and tell you, it is -- people get much more upset about animals than they do even about sometimes children being abused or even women.
BLOOM: It's like abusing children. It's like abusing children.
There were hundreds and hundreds of dogs here who were tortured and killed, as Jane says in very sadistic ways.
HILL: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I mean, we wanted to teach children that violence is really not the way to go. And so it is a privilege just to go (ph) in the NFL.
MARTIN: But there are guys who beat their wives.
HILL: That's not OK.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: It's not. I know that. But what's interesting the people are not as passionate about that as they are about these pets.
HILL: It's sad. It's sad that they're not. They should be equally as passionate.
BLOOM: Well, how about Mike Tyson, a convicted rapist went back to fight again.
MARTIN: Well, look, Don King had a manslaughter. He was a big- time boxer.
David, 10 seconds, final comment.
CORNWELL: All of these are great points. The fact of the matter is that Michael Vick is a man who used to walk around in this nation with people wearing a jersey with his name in the back. He spent the last 23 months in a jumpsuit with a number on his back.
MARTIN: Hey, David, we're out of time. We certainly appreciate it. Thank you very much, sir.
David Cornwell from Atlanta, Jane Velez-Mitchell, right here at HLN, we certainly appreciate it.
I want to thank you for joining us. Folks, it's time for us to go.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now. What do we say?
ALL: Holla.
