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Campbell Brown
Different President, Same Policy?; President Obama Signs Credit Card Reform Bill
Aired May 22, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, folks, there are new developments in the case of five Alabama police officers fired after an incredible video showed them beating an unconscious suspect just moments after the end of a high-speed chase.
And that's just one of the topics we're talking about tonight with CNN anchor and correspondent Erica Hill, national political correspondent Jessica Yellin, Lisa Bloom, "In Session" anchor and CNN legal analyst, and Steve Kornacki, columnist for "The New York Observer."
But, first, the new developments in the police beating that was caught on tape in Birmingham, Alabama. This is incredible video, folks. And, trust me, I need to warn you it's quite graphic. And because of it, five cops were fired this week.
Looking at this, it's hard to believe, but the cops say they were just doing their jobs. The beating happened after a hair-raising car chase in January of last year which ended when the suspect's van overturned. The attorney for the five officers says they didn't throw -- sorry -- they didn't see the man thrown from the van. They didn't know he was knocked out, and they were just following their training to subdue him.
Gayle Gear, the attorney representing the officers, joins us live now from Birmingham. Also joining us is Ric Robinson, a retired West Virginia State Trooper who is highly trained in police pursuit techniques. He is now a professor in the criminal justice department at Beckfield College near Cincinnati.
Now, attorney Gear, I just want to play this video for our viewers again. And, look, the video is pretty damning. So, explain to us in the defense of the officers in filing the appeal to try to get their jobs back.
GAYLE GEAR, ATTORNEY FOR FIRED POLICEMEN: I'm sure that this tape has been shown again. It's a small segment of a 20-minute chase. And just the words that are used -- certainly, the words that are used even by the commentators, the ones that you used, for example, beating, caught on tape, ejected, and he was beaten while he was unconscious...
(CROSSTALK)
GEAR: One really has to go a little further than that.
MARTIN: Attorney, we saw the video. He was ejected from the car. When you see the video, even 11 seconds, he wasn't moving.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: The cops run up. They begin to punch him, hit him, beat him. So, how would you describe what we actually just saw, other than the way we described it?
GEAR: Certainly.
And this is the way an analytical analysis would be done in a full investigation, which, of course, was done well over a year ago. One would look at it from the point of view of car number one with those two officers, car number two, and car number three.
The view that you're getting is from a car in the tactical. No one in car one, two and even in the tactical car saw him ejected. It is impossible to see because they're the driver. They're getting out. They don't see him ejected. They immediately find him on the ground.
You say he's unconscious. There is no evidence of it. He doesn't move, but he does move later. Their job and their training is to...
(CROSSTALK)
GEAR: ... to subdue him.
MARTIN: I'm sorry. He moved later? Gayle, Gayle...
GEAR: Well, he certainly did. He moved. He moved. And, in fact, when he was handcuffed, he did -- they did provide medical attention. He did talk to the officers. In fact, he apologized to the officer for creating this particular problem.
He was later taken by ambulance. There were people there on the scene to take pictures and interview the officers.
STEVE KORNACKI, COLUMNIST, "THE NEW YORK OBSERVER": Gayle...
GEAR: In fact, what should be known -- certainly, what should be known is we have ranking supervisors on the scene that do an after- action report.
(CROSSTALK)
KORNACKI: All right, but you're talking about the -- but, Gayle, you're talking about the investigation here. You're saying this was all looked at a year ago.
(CROSSTALK)
KORNACKI: A year ago, when this video was submitted, this portion of the tape was not included in it. So, it seems to me at the very least there is an awareness on the part of the force that presented this video as evidence more than a year ago that there's something wrong, if they're going to leave this portion out. GEAR: Well, of course, that portion wasn't left out.
The original tape was, in fact, secured by the tactical officer. We have tapes in all of the cars. That's been a responsibility of the city. We're -- the officers wanted the video cameras. That tape was secured, as it is properly done through the rule and reg. That tape was secured when Hoover wanted the tape to pursue attempted murder or first-degree assault.
(CROSSTALK)
LISA BLOOM, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Let me bring Ric in, because, Ric, I know that one of the things these officers are saying is that pressure-point hits are appropriate under their training. And that's what was applied here, although it certainly looks to us as though they're being struck over and over again with police batons.
How do you see it?
RIC ROBINSON, RETIRED WEST VIRGINIA STATE TROOPER: Well, that is -- that is, of course, what they were doing.
You know something? I'm probably the most pro law enforcement officer you will have ever on television. And it rips my soul out, but I -- my brother asked me, how are you going to defend this? Well, it's indefensible.
They, I'm confident, did not realize he got thrown out of the vehicle. I have had situations like that myself where somebody was thrown out, I didn't realize it, and I -- I'm looking around: Where are they?
But, as you mentioned, it was 11 seconds from when the first vehicle pulled up, the cruiser. Five seconds is what I counted from the time you first see an officer run into the shot. And the guy isn't moving.
People look to us because they want to trust us. They want to believe that we're doing the right thing. And when they see something like that, it is difficult to win a case. It's difficult to go into a grand jury and win with them.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: Ric, what I understand the police officers are saying, though, is that they didn't know. Of course, they couldn't know in the moment that he was unconscious. And, so, instead they're saying, show us your hands. He doesn't move. His hands are under his body. They have to make sure that he's immobilized.
ROBINSON: But you have got to realize we're trained to go into a situation and to evaluate it quickly, and, if we see some sort of a threat, to respond to that. It's a use-of-force continuum. If I put you up against a wall and you push back, I'm just going to push you back. If you draw out a knife, I'm going to draw out a weapon. So, that's what we're talking about here. Was there any need for any force? I'm -- I'm having a difficult time with this because I don't want to say these things. But the public has got to trust us. The chief did the right thing. The mayor did the right thing by firing these guys.
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Ms. Gear, bottom line, may I ask you quickly...
ROBINSON: Sure.
YELLIN: ... did you believe these officers followed proper protocol?
ROBINSON: Well...
YELLIN: Ms. Gear. Ms. Gear.
ROBINSON: ... from 1949, maybe, but not from -- not from the year 2009.
MARTIN: Attorney Gear...
ROBINSON: That's the type of behavior that we saw from law enforcement officers 50 years ago.
(CROSSTALK)
ROBINSON: It was inappropriate. It was wrong.
And, Gayle, I hope you keep them out of prison. I sincerely mean that. But what they did was clearly wrong.
MARTIN: Attorney Gear, final comments. About 10 seconds. Go.
GEAR: Oh, certainly.
We always look at totality of the circumstances. It absolutely has to be looked at by experts.
MARTIN: OK. OK.
GEAR: It certainly was by the supervisors.
And they are not guilty. They followed their training, and they acted on what they knew about this individual. And they acted on what they saw and what they needed to do to secure him.
MARTIN: All right. Gayle Gear...
GEAR: No one who has -- wasn't there could make such a judgment in New York City and claim to be an expert.
MARTIN: Gayle, hey, Gayle, I appreciate it. We're out of time.
All right, Gayle Gear, Ric Robinson, thank you so very much.
ROBINSON: You bet.
MARTIN: Folks, tonight, a CNN exclusive -- hear which former Bush administration official is sticking up for President Obama after the war of words with former Vice President Dick Cheney. Now, it's not Colin Powell.
And long live the King -- Larry King right here tonight, folks. Hear all about the amazing journey that made him the king of talk.
And, folks, please take a moment to remember the men and women who have given their lives for our country.
Here's an iReport from Donnell in New York.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONNELL NICHOLS, CNN IREPORTER: We owe it to our young men and women to support them every single day, not just on Memorial Day, and not just on Veterans Day. Don't take the freedoms for granted. That's the best way to honor the young men and women.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: Now, you knew we hadn't heard the end of it, the great debate over how to keep America safe from terrorists. President Obama Barack Obama and former Vice President Dick Cheney sparred in back-to- back speeches yesterday.
Today, another jab from the president in an interview that will air on C-SPAN tomorrow.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, C-SPAN)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I am confident that we are stronger when we uphold our principles, that we are weaker when we start pushing them aside.
I think there was a period of time right after 9/11, understandably, because people were fearful, where I think we -- we cut too many corners and made some decisions that were contrary to who we are as a people.
I think there were adjustments that were made, even within the Bush administration, to try to deal with some of those mistakes. There are still consequences, though, to some of those earlier poor decisions. And I think Guantanamo was one of them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: Also today, in a CNN exclusive, another former Bush official jumped into the fray. But whose side is he on?
We will put that to the panel here.
And joining us right now, Tony Blankley, radio host and former press secretary for Newt Gingrich.
Hey, Tony, the president's continuing with this message we lost our way after 9/11 and it made the U.S. weaker. Do you agree?
TONY BLANKLEY, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: No, I don't think we lost our way after 9/11.
What -- what the optimum policy is, is a different matter. And I happen to think that -- that Vice President Cheney is closer to describing a reliable policy. But we may be going through a number of permutations over many years to figure out the right policy. Wars are that way.
And I guess we will talk in a little while about the Bush official and what he said, but I do have some thoughts about that.
YELLIN: Tony, let me ask you, a number of Bush aides I talk to are very frustrated, because even though President Obama trashed a lot of President Bush's terrorism-related policies during the campaign, they think he's actually following them now when it comes to Gitmo, when it comes to trying detainees.
So, how different do you think President Obama's actual policy is from President Bush's?
BLANKLEY: Well, I have always argued that one of the most important decisions a new president can make is which one of his promises he does not want to keep.
And, very often, the promises that are most foolish are foreign policy promises. I think Obama's clearly backpedaling. He's seeing the world differently from the Oval Office than from outside. And in large measure on security issues, he is buying into the Bush strategy, while trying to appear to be morally in a different position.
So, it's an awkward straddle for -- for President Obama.
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I do want to get some of this in as well, Tony. As we mentioned, John King had an exclusive interview with former Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge, who spoke with John King and talked about the Obama safety issue. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "STATE OF THE UNION WITH JOHN KING")
JOHN KING, HOST, "STATE OF THE UNION WITH JOHN KING": You had the intelligence. You served in a very sensitive position in those days after 9/11. Do you believe we're less safe today because of steps taken by President Obama?
TOM RIDGE, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY CHIEF: I do not.
KING: You disagree with Dick Cheney, then?
RIDGE: Yes, I disagree with Dick Cheney, but I also disagree with -- -- with the approach both men are taking.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: So, Tony, as a prominent Republican, I put this to you. Which camp would you fall in? Would you fall behind former Secretary Ridge or behind former Vice President Dick Cheney? Who is doing it right?
BLANKLEY: This is very interesting, because Secretary Ridge is going to be having a book coming out sometime later in the year. It's an excellent book.
And it details, you know, the -- the -- all the various policy and bureaucratic disputes that went on inevitably in the administration. I think this is more reflection of the inter White -- Bush White House struggle and stress over policy than it is a reflection on the other one.
I don't think -- if I had to come down, I would probably come down on -- on the vice president's side. But -- but I think this is a lot of arguing about some fairly subtle differences.
KORNACKI: Tony, I tend to agree with you. I think the argument here really at a substantive level is more between Cheney and Bush than it is between Cheney and Obama at this point.
But I wonder, because I find you almost more on the Obama side on this, the question -- the question specifically...
BLANKLEY: No, I'm not. Please, no.
(LAUGHTER)
KORNACKI: ... the question specifically of military commissions, because of one of the cornerstones that Obama's laid out that the left is giving him trouble over and that you seem to be defending him on or inclined to defend him on, saying it's a flip-flop in the right direction, is we should have military commissions trying some of these detainees, instead of bringing them to civilian court.
And I have a very simple question. And no one has ever given me a good answer for this. Why are the courts of this country not good enough to determine the guilt or innocence of a detainee? Aren't we strong enough as a country and a judicial system to determine that?
BLANKLEY: No, I think the reason we have military tribunals -- and we have had them under Lincoln, and Wilson, and FDR -- is because you don't have the same possibility of rules of evidence in a military -- in a military tribunal.
These people were picked up on the battlefield. You can't -- you cannot collect evidence -- I used to be a prosecutor. You cannot collect evidence and follow the American rules of evidence and get a conviction, because the evidence is not going to be available.
So, military tribunals don't adhere to the required procedures of American jurisprudence.
MARTIN: All right.
BLANKLEY: That's why they're used for wartime situations, as opposed to peacetime civilian situations.
MARTIN: All right, Tony -- Tony, thanks a bunch. We certainly appreciate it.
BLANKLEY: Sure.
MARTIN: Folks, there are plenty of politicians and pundits out there talking about what's wrong with America and how we get in this political -- financial mess. So, how come it took an R&B singer to really hit it, hit the nail on the head?
More on John Legend and what he said at a graduation coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: Rocking a little Robin Thicke there.
BLOOM: One of your favorites.
MARTIN: Robin Thicke, "Magic." It's a nice song.
Folks, President Obama signed a new law today that's supposed to crack down on the credit card industry. But will it put more money in your pocket? Hmm. We have been hearing from you at home for months about your credit questions.
Listen to your iReport Dave West from Mesquite, Nevada.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVE WEST, MESQUITE, NEVADA: I got a letter in the mail today from Capital One about my credit card. I have had a fixed rate, about 10 percent, and today they say they're bumping it up to almost 18.
There's a note in there that says I can decline the changes, close the account, and pay it off in the original terms. But I'm wondering if that's going to affect my credit score. I don't need the card for -- for charges. It's got a balance that it was unfortunate that we had to put some expenses on there. But we're in a situation where it's not a concern that we need that line of credit.
What should we do?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: Good question, Dave. We will get some expert advice in a minute.
But I want to ask the folks here, does the new law go far enough?
BLOOM: Well, half-empty or half-full? (CROSSTALK)
HILL: It depends how you look at it. It's true..
YELLIN: It's better than nothing, a lot of people are saying. But it might not do everything that they had wanted going in.
KORNACKI: They're banning -- you no longer can solicit college- age kids, which would've helped me 10 years ago.
BLOOM: Yes, right.
MARTIN: All right.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: ... help people who pay it off every month, though. That's the problem.
MARTIN: OK. All right, then. Well, I -- I concur.
All right, folks, coming up again in a moment again, we will talk about that particular issue with Representative Maloney and others -- so, back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: Normally, when I say Larry King is coming up, I mean his show is on after us. But, tonight, you don't have to wait. Larry's in our house tonight.
But, first, before we get to Larry, Erica with the briefing.
HILL: Make you wait a little bit for the goods, but it is worth it.
Let's get you caught up on the news of the day.
Plenty of rattled nerves, luckily, no reports of injuries or major damage, following a magnitude-5.7 earthquake which shook Mexico City. Now, it was centered about 90 miles outside the city. Thousands of frightened people ran into the streets as buildings swayed and power was knocked out in some areas.
Meantime, elsewhere in Mexico, newly released video shows that when dozens of inmates escaped from a prison last week, they didn't really face much of a fight. Drug cartel suspects appeared to stroll out here, no one stopping them. Only later did the officers appear to react. Yes, they're gone. The 50 or so escapees were picked up by a motorcade. They have not been seen since.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi shut down reporters today as they tried to ask about her assertion that the CIA misled Congress about the water-boarding of terror suspects in 2002.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: The subject that you asked, I have made the statement that I'm going to make. I won't have anything more to that about it.
(CROSSTALK)
PELOSI: I won't have anything more to say about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: Republicans are demanding Pelosi prove her allegations.
The American journalist who spent 100 days in an Iranian jail after being convicted of spying is now back on U.S. soil. At Dulles Airport near Washington, Roxana Saberi thanked everyone who worked for her release. She said she sang the U.S. national anthem to herself to cope while in custody.
President Obama giving a hearty handshake and a slap on the back to John McCain today -- not his opponent John McCain, but John S. McCain IV, better known as Jack, who is a member of this year's graduating class at the Naval Academy. His famous dad was of course in the crowd as President Obama delivered today's commencement address.
The younger McCain will now head to Florida, where he plans to train as a pilot, following in his father's, grandfather's, and great grandfather's steps in being commissioned as a Naval officer.
And it wasn't just the McCain family celebrating. The traditional hats toss coming right up here. Keep an eye on your screen, 1,036 men and women which make up the class of 2009.
It is a great shot, which Jessica's camera didn't capture once, even though she tried. The shutter just wasn't fast enough.
YELLIN: It's a digital camera thing.
MARTIN: All right, then.
All right, folks, AAA says 32 million Americans are expected to travel this holiday weekend, a slight uptick from last year.
HILL: It is a slight uptick. But we want to know what's in store for them, so we're going to check with meteorologist Reynolds Wolf, who is standing by in the CNN Severe Weather Center -- Reynolds.
REYNOLDS WOLF, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Erica, let's take a look at that forecast.
Across the nation, we could be seeing some heavy rainfall for your holiday weekend, especially into parts of, say, Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana, New Orleans, definitely some heavy rain there. Texas, very warm for you. Pretty dry across much of the Great Basin, including the West Coast into the Pacific Northwest, a lot of sunshine for spots like, say, Portland, even into Seattle. But then when you get across into the Ohio Valley, scattered storms could be expected, relatively dry for parts of the Northeast and cool for the Outer Banks of North Carolina.
That is a look at your holiday forecast. Let's send it back to you, Erica.
HILL: All right, Reynolds, thanks -- Roland.
MARTIN: All right, folks, John Legend is an R&B singing great, but a speech he gave to a graduating class is something that all of us should hear. And John Legend is here to talk to me about that.
Plus, on this Memorial Day weekend, a solemn reminder from one of the many men and women who have helped defend our freedom.
Here's an iReporter and veteran from Los Angeles.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SGT. MAJ. LUKE JOSEPH TAGGE, LOS ANGELES: We have all fought for your freedom, so you can enjoy these long weekends. So, enjoy it. Pull out the barbecue. Go see those good movies.
But always remember, this holiday was not paid for with your smiles and your barbecues, but with blood.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: A little John Legend there.
Folks, it might be this season's best commencement speech. And it wasn't by a politician or a CEO. It was about politicians and CEOs.
Check out singer John Legend at his alma mater, the University of Pennsylvania, last weekend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN LEGEND, MUSICIAN: Too often, in business and in government, people are rewarded for having the answer that the person they report to wants them to have.
"Yes, sir, we can provide mortgages to people who have no down payment and can't afford the monthly payments."
'Yes, sir, we should buy the cheapest possible toys from factories with low safety standards and not worry if it poisons our children."
"Yes, ma'am, I can write a legal brief to justify torture."
(END VIDEO CLIP) MARTIN: Joining me now is John Legend.
Now, John, your commencement address really hit a nerve. And you say that there's a root cause for all of the crises we're facing right now, a lack of truth.
So, explain what you really mean by that. Are people demanding truth? Or they simply don't want to hear the truth?
LEGEND: Well, you know, I think a lot of times, we deny it. Sometimes, the press doesn't adequately cover it. Sometimes, we're not looking for it because we don't want to know, we don't want to rock the boat, we don't want to rain on the parade.
But, at the end of the day, I feel like a lot of the crises that we face now are because we failed to either look for the truth or to speak the truth, speak the truth to power, and speak the truth on behalf of the powerless.
MARTIN: And, John, when you say we, obviously, we can talk about government. I mean, I look at what's happening in California right now, a $21 billion budget shortfall. They're saying they might have cuts. And people are saying, well, but we don't want to increase our taxes.
And, so, it's amazing where I think government and your average person, they all are in the same boat, and that is want to run away from the reality of all of our problems.
LEGEND: Yes.
And I think, a lot of times, it's like a never-ending cycle, because sometimes I feel like the populace, we don't -- we don't want the government to tell us the truth, because we don't -- we don't want to hear bad news a lot of times.
And I think politicians feed into that, because they don't want to tell us that eventually they're going to have to raise taxes if they keep spending money, keep spending money on the war, keep spending money on Social Security. All these things, they cost money.
And, at some point, these deficits are not going to be sustainable, and they're going to have to raise taxes.
MARTIN: Now, John, you also said that President Barack Obama gets this, that we're ready to hear the truth. But, really, does he have a monopoly on the truth? Is it a question of Democrat or Republican? Or is just regardless of ideology and party?
LEGEND: Absolutely not.
And -- and, hopefully, he won't lose that now that he's in office, you know? I felt like one of the things that was great about his campaign was he was communicating with candor to the American people. But he has to continue that as he's in office. And we have to hold him to that standard. MARTIN: You know, John, I have traveled around the country speaking at expos and giving speeches. And it's very interesting. One of the things I keep talking about is this whole issue of, the election took place, people are excited. They have got the Obama shirts, hats -- hats and buttons and things along those lines.
But I keep saying, what's next?
LEGEND: Yes.
MARTIN: You and a lot of other artists are rallying behind the president. But the election is over. Now it's -- when it comes to governing, how are you speaking to the issue of public policy, trying to get people to say, look, it's what you do now, as opposed to what happened on Election Day?
LEGEND: Yes.
Well, that means we have to keep watching and we have to keep holding him and the rest of the government, the Congress accountable. We know he doesn't just wave his magic wand and make things happen in D.C. We know that there is a legislative process. We know we have a Supreme Court.
So, he can't just make all the things happen that we want to happen. But we need to be watchful, you know?
MARTIN: I keep hear people saying that this is the lost generation, that this generation is not as passionate or concerned about the issues of the day.
LEGEND: Yes.
MARTIN: What do you say to critics when you hear that?
LEGEND: Well, I believe -- well, I think we saw it with the election, I think I'm seeing -- as I talk about poverty at different colleges around the country, I'm seeing young people that are hungry to do something.
They need some direction. They need some leadership, but they're hungry to do something. And I think particularly the silver lining, possibly, with the bad economy is that they can't all go to the posh jobs that they thought they could go to a few years ago. And I think there's more opportunity for them to get into more service jobs.
I spoke to the head of Teach for America who's seen the application rate go way up for them. So that's possibly the silver lining for the bad economy, is that there are more young people, more bright young people who are really ready to do some service.
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN ANCHOR: John, you talk about poverty overseas. Well, is it difficult to get Americans to embrace the reality of poverty here in this country? Especially in the light of this bad economy, they're saying, hey, forget somebody else, I'm concerned about me. LEGEND: Well, the thing is, that somebody else could be you eventually, you know. And I think that's what a lot of people need to realize that we're all in this together. And those somebodies could be your cousins and your neighbors, and that affects all of us. So I think we as a society need to decide that certain levels of poverty are not tolerable and we need to do something to happen, a social net.
MARTIN: John, we certainly appreciate you putting your money where your mouth is. And again, whether it's poverty or literacy, or HIV/AIDS, I just want people to make a decision and answer the question what are you prepared to do to get involved to change this country.
LEGEND: Absolutely. What will you do? What will you do? That's a good question.
MARTIN: All right. John Legend, always a pleasure.
LEGEND: Thank you. It's good to see you Roland.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MARTIN: So, folks, what are you prepared to do? John Legend is active in a number of different causes. If you like to learn more, please visit our "Impact Your World" page. Go to CNN.com/impact and look for John's picture under more ways to help.
Tonight there's a brand new law cracking down on credit card companies. But stay there, we're about to look at whether it will really save you some money or it will cost you more dough.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: So there are new credit card laws. So how much of a difference are we really going to see from the credit card reform bill signed into law today by President Barack Obama? He hopes it will help millions of Americans get out of the quick sand that is credit card debt. It's designed to end years of sneaky fees and interest rate hikes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Contracts are drafted not to inform, but to confuse. Mysterious fees appear on statements. Payment deadlines shift, terms change, interest rates rise. And suddenly a credit card becomes less of a lifeline and more of an anchor.
Interest can be charged even if you pay your bill on time. Rates can be increased on outstanding balances even if you aren't late with a payment. So we're here to put a change to all of that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: The law will require credit card companies to wait until a customer is 60 days overdue before they can charge a late fee. Also, customers have to be notified 45 days in advance of a rate increase. And if you're under 21, Steve, you won't get a card unless you can prove you have the means to pay it off or have a parent or guardian co-sign.
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NATL. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: There you go.
MARTIN: Let's bring in two people who've been following this very closely. Here in New York, Democratic Congresswoman Carolyn Maloney. She introduced the House version of the bill. And in San Francisco, Gail Hillebrand, the Consumers Union, the non-profit publisher of "Consumer Reports" magazine. She works on consumer credit issues.
Representative Maloney and Gail, we have a lot to cover. But first, I want to quickly turn to Jessica.
Jessica, there are some critics out there who say the bill, not really a big deal. No big winners here.
YELLIN: Well, that's right. Critics mainly say that because there's no cap on the amount of interest that credit cards can charge. A number of senators tried to pass a limit, but those measures failed. So some argue that this has to do with a massive lobbying effort by banks and credit card companies which we can debate.
It's worth pointing out that credit card companies did donate $7.7 million to members of Congress in 2008 alone, and commercial banks are among the top five contributors to the heads of the Senate Banking Committee.
Now, some are so upset and they think there's so much pervasive intervention by banks on a number of issues, that Senator Dick Durbin, one of the highest ranking senators, made a shocking statement a few weeks ago, talking about the Senate and banks, Roland. He said, frankly, they own this place.
MARTIN: Wow, strong words there.
Now, Gail, here are some potential pitfalls of the credit card act. Higher overall rates, annual fees and tighter credit. So what do people do to protect themselves?
GAIL HILLEBRAND, CONSUMERS UNION: UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, first, I think you need to know that these statements by the banks that somehow the new act is going to hurt you. We think those are false. It's one thing to tell the Congress that you're going to hurt your customers if they pass a new law. It's another thing to actually do it.
This new law is an improvement going forward. But we don't get the protections until next February. So between now and then, keep your balances as low as you can. Watch out for those bill and transfer offers. They may not be as good as they look. And pay your balance in full if you can and if not, make more than the minimum payment. LISA BLOOM, ANCHOR OF TRUTV'S "IN SESSION": Representative Maloney, let's talk about what the law does do. Primarily, is it an anti-deception law?
REP. CAROLYN MALONEY (D), NEW YORK: No, no, no. It cracks down on the most abusive practices by the card industry. The any time any reason rate increases, the retroactive rate increases on the existing balances that gives notice of rate increases going forward so a consumer can decide that they'll go to another card. It puts competition back into the system and cracks down on the most abusive practices, which the Federal Reserve has characterized as unfair, deceptive, and anti-competitive.
So it's a very tough bill and I think this is one example, Roland, where Congress stood up to the industry. The industry was adamantly opposed to it. It's one of the few times we've been able to pass a bill that truly does help millions of people better manage their credit and it really levels the playing field between the card companies and the consumer, giving the consumer more tools to better manage their finances.
And I could tell you of all the things I've ever worked on, there is more response to this. Everyone has a credit card story.
In fact, I got a letter, an e-mail today from a veteran, a Vietnam veteran who is suffering from cancer, battling cancer. He put some of his medical expenses on his credit card. He was two days late, and they raised his rate to 27 percent retroactively on his balance, 27 percent going forward. And he says, I don't have the money to pay for my last chemotherapy treatment because of a high interest rate.
This will crack down on these interest rates. It is a huge win for consumers.
MARTIN: Right.
MALONEY: And the one thing that's wrong about it is that it should have been put in place last year or the year before or come into -- go into action tomorrow and protect people. If it had been in place a year ago, this individual would not have this problem.
YELLIN: Would you not have preferred this -- would you not have preferred this to have a cap? Have an interest rate cap?
MALONEY: I believe that this onerous (ph) free market principles and will bring interest rates down.
YELLIN: But would you not preferred an interest rate cap? With that not have protected the consumer more?
MALONEY: I believe this protects the consumer adequately and probably more than an interest rate cap.
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So there isn't anything else that would need to be fought for in any further measures? MALONEY: Well, I would like to see it enacted now as opposed to 90 days from now. We did get the provision of the 45-day notice 30 days. But we'll have a sharp pencil going forward.
MARTIN: Gail --
MALONEY: But this is the first credit card bill that's ever passed in the 19 years I've been in Congress.
MARTIN: Gail, how about this? Should there have been a cap?
HILLEBRAND: We do support a national interest rate cap, but that's a different issue. What's so important about this new credit card law is once you borrow the money, the interest rate on the money you already borrowed doesn't go up. That's a very valuable protection for families. It means we can decide for ourselves how much we really can afford to borrow and know what we're going to pay for it. And that's the heart of the bill. It's a very important new protection.
STEVE KORNACKI, COLUMNIST, "NEW YORK OBSERVER": We are running low on time and I'm sorry to change the subject. But it would be criminal if I did not ask you about this while we have you here.
There is a Senate seat in New York that's held by an appointed senator right now named Kirsten Gillibrand. That seat is up next year. You want to be appointment to that seat. You didn't get the appointment to that seat. You said two weeks ago that you are sure if you will have a challenger in the Democratic primary next year, it might be you.
MARTIN: You've got about 10 seconds.
KORNACKI: Is that statement still valid?
MALONEY: Instead of getting that seat, I passed the credit card holder's bill of rights.
HILL: That's great.
(CROSSTALK)
MALONEY: That will help a lot of people, protect a lot of people. And I've been working 100 percent on that.
MARTIN: Representative Maloney.
KORNACKI: Sounds like it is.
MARTIN: Representative Maloney, Gail Hillebrand, I certainly appreciate it. Thanks for joining us.
MALONEY: Thank you.
MARTIN: Folks, we got something special coming up. Larry King up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: Bringing sexy back.
MARTIN: Who else could bring sexy back other than Larry King?
Folks, in the 24 years with CNN, Larry has talked to everybody who's anybody but his own story is just as dramatic. His new book "My Remarkable Journey" is in stores now. And trust me, folks, no matter how well you think you know the "King," this book will surprise you.
Larry King is the man, and he's here right now. Shot caller, big baller.
LARRY KING, AUTHOR, "MY REMARKABLE JOURNEY": I'll tell you with ethnics.
(LAUGHTER)
Oh, it's great to be part. This group is -- you know, I follow the show and I get to see all of this. And I think this is a new kind of television. And I love the way you do it because you don't take yourselves as secret. You just want to be yourself.
MARTIN: Right.
KING: That's the only secret, the real essence secret in television. And number two is, you don't take yourself that seriously.
MARTIN: Hey --
KING: Too many people in this business today, why am I getting into this whole dialogue?
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: We're taking notes.
KING: I haven't been asked a thing and I'm making a speech.
MARTIN: What did you do?
KING: Too many people are pompous, or it's all about them. And that's a danger point to me. And so I don't like that kind of -- and so I like this because it's congenial and it works.
MARTIN: You got the hook up from Jackie Gleason for an interview of all time.
KING: Jackie Gleason befriended me. He came to Miami. We really got along.
So one day I'm at his house with a bunch of people. And Jackie liked to play these mind games. So he said, I want each of you to tell me in your profession, what's impossible? What's impossible?
So there's the doctor (INAUDIBLE). What's impossible?
The doctor said in my profession, they'll never make blood in a laboratory. Blood will always be in your body, but it will never -- will never manufacture blood.
And he turns to me, what's impossible in your profession? I said, well, Jackie, I do a radio show every night, local show from 9:00 to 12:00. Frank Sinatra's coming in to open at the (INAUDIBLE) next week.
Frank Sinatra to do my show from 9:00 to 12:00. This is 1964. Frank Sinatra did not do interviews and he was larger than life. And, Jackie, if he would do my show, that's impossible. And Jackie did.
"What night is he dark (ph)? What night don't we work?" I said next Monday. "You got him, pal."
BLOOM: Wow.
KING: I said what? "You got him."
MARTIN: You thought Jackie was drinking.
KING: Oh, Jackie, you're kidding. You got him. Give me the address and station.
I said I'm going to plug it. Go plug it. So I go in the air that night. This next Monday, Frank Sinatra.
So that, phones are ringing. The station management calls me in. You got Frank Sinatra? I said, well, he told me.
Well, we called the hotel and he don't return the calls. And we're promoting him. We're going to take a full page ad in the newspaper. Are you sure he's coming? I said Jackie said he's coming.
Now it's the night of the show and I'm breathless and I'm scared. And nobody went home from the radio station. Just secretaries waiting. Everybody's waiting. It's 9:00. I go on five after 9:00.
One minute to 9:00 a limo pulls up. Frank gets out. And Jim Mahoney who's the publicist gets out. He's still living, Jim.
Mahoney comes up the stairs. Frank comes up the stairs. Frank says, "Who's Larry King?" I go -- I go. OK, let's do it.
And going to the studio Mahoney says to me, I don't know how you got this, but I get paid not to put him on the air. We sit down and here's what I learned a long time ago, what's valuable in broadcasting, always be honest.
So my first question was, why are you here? Now, I asked my old friend, Jack. Why are you here? And he says, four years ago I was working at then Maxi Town (ph) and Country Club in Brooklyn, it was closing night and I had laryngitis I couldn't go on. I called Jackie. I said Jackie Gleason, would you come and do a show? And he came and he entertained them. I walked about to his limo and I leaned in. I said Jackie, I owe you a favor.
Now, it's four years later I checked into the (INAUDIBLE) hotel. I got a message to call Jackie Gleason. I call him.
I said Jackie, it's Frank. What can I do for you? And Jackie said, Frank, this is the favor.
MARTIN: Wow.
When we come back, I want you to tell us about the moment when you actually thought you might leave CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: Here's an amazing stat folks. In his 50-year career, Larry King has interviewed 40,000 people. Yes, 40,000. That will be a good-sized crowd at Yankee stadium. And it's made for a pretty good run here at CNN.
Larry is back now to talk about it. And, Larry, there's a moment when you were going to take the money and run.
KING: We got a window in the contract so that in 1989, I had a 30-day bridge in which -- even though I was in the middle of like a six-year contract, I could negotiate with anyone and then if I made a deal, I had to give a two-month notice to Ted and I could take the deal.
I'm scared to do it. But I -- hey, so I drive out to Los Angeles. It's a rainy night, it's a Sunday night. Angie Dickinson picks me up at the airport. We're driving and I'm telling her the story. I'm on the window and we're down to two.
Full (ph) knowledge at ABC or King World. We told both of them it's going to be one of them, but we've got to tell Ted by tomorrow or the time's up. And she said to me something.
She said, "Are you unhappy on CNN?" I said, no. "You like it?" Yes. Why you leaving? I said more money.
You're only leaving for money? You sure you want to think about it?
No, I'm thinking about it, right. Now, I get a call 6:00 in the morning. And it's Ted, I'm on a speakerphone. He's on a speakerphone.
Larry King, it's Ted. Yes. I'm here with Bob Wolfe. And I hear Barbara in the background. This is unethical, unethical.
Ted, screw ethics. Screw ethics, Ted says to me. Bob tells me you're leaving. Yes. OK. All I want you to do, Larry, is say two words and we're fine, we're friends. Just say goodbye, Ted. Go ahead.
MARTIN: And you couldn't say it?
KING: Say it, Larry, goodbye, Ted. You can't say it. I'll tell you what I'll give you the same money in six months. You stay with me.
I stayed with him. Best move I ever made.
BLOOM: Loyalty. Larry --
KING: And Bob Wolfe said he learned something that night. Ask the client how he feels. No one ever asked me.
MARTIN: It always helps.
YELLIN: Your real name is not Larry King.
KING: Zeiger.
YELLIN: And --
KING: That's what I was born in. But I legally changed it.
YELLIN: But you -- they told you to change it because it's too ethnic.
KING: Ethnic and you couldn't spell it. Now, that wouldn't happen. You'd be Larry Zeiger today.
YELLIN: But there was a time when you couldn't be.
KING: I know. At that time in broadcasting, if you had a name like Zeiger, they'd changed it. I legally changed it two years. I was never ashamed of being Jewish. I always discussed that I was Jewish.
I was in a town, Miami Beach is 80 percent Jewish. No, I was very proud. I understood that then. Now, it wouldn't happen.
BLOOM: Larry, can I ask you about the big case that was very significant to you in the book, significant to those of us who follow crime and justice stories. The O.J. Simpson case.
KING: That changed my life for a lot of reasons. One, it got me to move to L.A. They said let's go out to L.A. and cover it a lot. Then we started covering it. It was like obsessive.
So they used to have me at the Beverly Wilshire Hotel. CNN was paying a lot of money there. And I stayed there, met my future wife there.
The trial ended. It will end. I've decided I'd like to stay in L.A., and they were fine with it. BLOOM: Were you really involved with women on both sides of the O.J. case?
KING: I write about that in the book. Well, this was a relationship. You don't -- this -- I almost called this book "What am I Doing" book.
(LAUGHTER)
I met the publicist for the D.A.'s office. Beautiful girl, former anchor. And the jury consultant for O.J. Simpson. I was single, they were single. And so I dated one, then the other. And I was on a whirl.
I would send messages to O.J. through the jury consultant. If you get off, we'd like you to come on, down with the prosecutor. And she's telling me tomorrow we're going to bring up this piece of evidence.
Holy mackerel, I want to know. And, of course, the network knows this is going on.
Larry, you got to get him. Ask her this. Ask her this. You're going to -- hey, I'm trying to make love.
(LAUGHTER)
They can sue me --
HILL: And they never knew?
KING: They never knew.
HILL: They never knew about each other.
KING: Neither of them. They found out in this book.
HILL: Until now.
MARTIN: I've got to get a fist pound on that one.
Folks, when we come back, the day that changed Larry King's life, and some of his loves and losses.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: Larry King has packed a lot of living into 75 years, five children, eight marriages, and he's dated more famous and beautiful women than most men meet in a lifetime. You can read all about it in his new book "My Remarkable Journey."
KING: That just sold a lot of books.
MARTIN: You took your son back to New York and where you grew up where the old stadium used to be. And it sort of caused me to think about the issue of fatherhood and fathers and children. KING: That's what baseball is.
MARTIN: And you wrote, "Over the years so many people came forward to try to fill the hole left behind by my father. I don't know if they could sense what I lost. It's a good question but in the beginning the emptiness was not filled by a man."
Your daughter Kaia (ph) later said one of the reasons, she said, "I think my father's experiences all relate back to when he lost his father at such a young age."
What is that relationship that exists between a father and a son? And how has it helped you with your raising your children?
KING: Well, it's very special. I was very hurt when he died. I was very close to him. They'd lost a son before I was born from a burst appendix when he was 6 years old then I came along like a year later.
And then later, three years later, my younger brother. And I was very close to him. He got me interested in baseball. That was part of his life.
I remember his voice. I remember how he looked. I remember his laugh. And then one day he died.
MARTIN: You were 9?
KING: Only 9. I was coming home from the library. I was carrying nine books. I was a bookworm. I went to school. I was going to --
When the cop -- a cop came down the stairs, they knew my father and he told me. And all the books went flying. I never got interested in school again.
I got mad. I didn't go to the funeral. And I took it as anger. I was angry at him for leaving me.
It was a bad age, 9, to lose a father. Very bad age. And I think he'd do better than me to this day as it affects me with little boys.
Well, I'm much more attached to them. I'm very aware that I'm going to leave them. So they think about it. My 10-year-old, especially, the older ones I don't think.
But the 10-year-old, he worries about how you're feeling. Where are you going? When are you coming back? Don't go. You know, it would be a tough blow to him.
He's more attached to me than the 9-year-old. I mean, they're both attached.
MARTIN: Right.
KING: But the 9-year-old is really attached. I mean, really. The 10-year-old is --
HILL: But you talk about it with them?
KING: Oh, yes, I'm very open.
HILL: Obviously.
KING: They know. They know. The little one, Cannon, his middle name is Eddie (ph). That was my father's name.
But I got so attached, you know, I take them to school in the morning, pick them up in the afternoon. Of course, I had that incident with my 10-year-old little league game, I got thrown out. An umpire threw me out.
(LAUGHTER)
A grown man.
BLOOM: Can you imagine. And Larry --
KING: You missed the call.
MARTIN: Yes, you are right.
KING: You still missed. I almost broke my hand. You still missed the call.
BLOOM: Larry --
KING: You know what he told me? The umpire? Go back to CNN.
(LAUGHTER)
BLOOM: You got your beautiful boys and a beautiful wife, and, of course, you write in the book so openly about eight marriages to seven women. Are you ever sensitive about that when people talk about that? All the wives?
KING: I'm not anymore. I really was only loved -- in love with three of them. The others were, some were brief, some were very brief. Some -- one was old.
I think that what you like at 40 is not what you like at 50.
BLOOM: Well, it's true. Things change. People change. In fact, the only constant --
HILL: But you can grow together.
KING: Yes, that's right. The only constant in life is change. So I think it's hard.
Now, this past marriage is my longest to Shawn. I'm married for 12 years.
(LAUGHTER)
I got a funny line I use with her. I know you've got a break, so I'll give it to you.
When people see me and they see her and the two little boys, I know what they're thinking. I know what they're thinking. So I always put them at ease. I tell them the same thing. If she dies, she dies.
MARTIN: Folks, that is it for us. But trust me, you want to pick up this book. It is a wonderful book of Larry King -- "My Remarkable Journey."
Larry, we certainly enjoyed it.
KING: Is this the end of the show, by the way?
MARTIN: This is --
YELLIN: It is.
HILL: Are you ready?
KING: What's coming up now?
MARTIN: Of course, folks, you have a great weekend. What's coming up next is "LARRY KING LIVE."
Let's say it with Larry. Help us wrap it up.
KING: OK.
MARTIN: This is what we say.
ALL: Holla.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RYAN SEACREST, HOST, "AMERICAN IDOL" (voice-over): Tonight, "American Idol" exclusive.
SEACREST: Kris Allen.
KING: Kris is here. And so is Adam. I'll tell you what happened when the cameras stopped rolling and the crowds went home. And when they thought about how it all began.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you the best singer out there?
KRIS ALLEN, "AMERICAN IDOL WINNER": You know, there's probably people that are better than me.
SIMON COWELL, JUDGE, "AMERICAN IDOL": Your modesty is actually putting me off a little bit.
SEACREST: Their lives changed forever. And what about the rest of the top ten? They're all here and Paula too.
Right now, this is "LARRY KING LIVE."
