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Campbell Brown
Supreme Court Nominee Announced
Aired May 26, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN ANCHOR: Folks, a groundbreaking day for the Supreme Court, the first Hispanic nominee in the 219-year history of the court.
And there are few people better qualified to talk about it than CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin, author of "The Nine: Inside the Secret World of the Supreme Court." He's here along with national political correspondent Jessica Yellin, and Lisa Bloom, "In Session" anchor and CNN legal analyst.
Now, folks, look at this picture here. This is something few could have imagined even a year ago, our first African-American president making his first choice for the high court, and she is Hispanic.
Now, Jeff, we will start with you.
We think about Thurgood Marshall, first African-American nominated in 1997, Sandra Day O'Connor, the first woman, nominated in 1981. And, as best as you can, put into context nomination of Judge Sonia Sotomayor.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR ANALYST: I was struck by the tableau of the two of them sitting next -- standing next to each other in the East Room.
Here you have -- there have been 43 individuals who have been president of the United States, 42 of them white men. There have been 111 Supreme Court justices, 107 of them white men. And here you have, next to each other, an African-American man, a president, Hispanic woman, presumably going to be confirmed for the Supreme Court, the face of America.
MARTIN: Don't forget the white guy, Joe Biden.
(LAUGHTER)
TOOBIN: Joe Biden was there, yes.
MARTIN: The vice president.
TOOBIN: And only -- and only white men have been vice president.
MARTIN: Ah.
TOOBIN: No one else I think wants to be.
(LAUGHTER)
TOOBIN: No.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Gotcha.
TOOBIN: But it is a different picture of what America looks like today.
MARTIN: Now, here is what President Obama had to say today in introducing Judge Sotomayor and then how she introduced herself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's a measure of her qualities and her qualifications that Judge Sotomayor was nominated to the U.S. District Court by a Republican president, George H. W. Bush, and promoted to the Federal Court of Appeals by a Democrat, Bill Clinton.
OBAMA: Walking in the door, she would bring more experience on the bench and more varied experience on the bench than anyone currently serving on the United States Supreme Court had when they were appointed.
JUDGE SONIA SOTOMAYOR, SUPREME COURT NOMINEE: I stand on the shoulders of countless people, yet there is one extraordinary person who is my life aspiration. That person is my mother, Celina Sotomayor.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
SOTOMAYOR: My mother has devoted her life to my brother and me. And as the president mentioned, she worked often two jobs to help support us after dad died. I have often said that I am all I am because of her, and I am only half the woman she is.
I hope that as the Senate and American people learn more about me, they will see that I am an ordinary person who has been blessed with extraordinary opportunities and experiences. Today is one of those experiences.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: Folks, we will take a closer look at Judge Sotomayor's personal story in just a bit.
But, first, I want to focus on what she could bring to the bench.
Let me welcome Alex Sanchez, a New York criminal defense attorney, who, like Sotomayor, grew up in the Bronx, in Miami, attorney general Raquel Rodriguez, who served as general counsel to former Florida Governor Jeb Bush, and, in Boston, Harvard Law professor Charles Ogletree, who has been both an adviser and mentor to President Obama. Now, Alex, real quick, you grew up with the same neighborhood. What does it mean for someone from the old neighborhood possibly going to the Supreme Court?
ALEX SANCHEZ, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think it is marvelous for all parties concerned. She grew up in a housing project. She worked her way literally from the ground up, went to Yale Law School, became a prosecutor, a trial court judge, a court of appeals judge.
This is a fantastic achievement for her.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: And you knew her brothers?
A. SANCHEZ: I knew her brother. I didn't know her.
MARTIN: OK.
A. SANCHEZ: She was a few years ahead of me, but she was a rising star back then.
MARTIN: Jeff, already, one of cases we are hearing about is the New Haven firefighters case that she had a decision in. And so talk about that case and what could it mean in terms of moving forward with the critics and also the folks who are trying to push her through to get on the Supreme Court.
TOOBIN: Well, makes -- what makes this case especially important, it is pending now before the Supreme Court. And the decision will presumably come down right before her confirmation hearings.
The gist of the case is this. New Haven wanted to promote a group of firefighters to higher positions. They had a written test. The written test had almost all white people score at the top. Worried about being sued by the black applicants, New Haven canceled the test and decided to start over on the -- on the promotion process.
The white firefighters sued, saying it was reverse discrimination. Their case was heard by the Supreme Court a couple of weeks ago. And the decision is due.
Sotomayor was part of the majority that said it was OK what New Haven did; it was not reverse discrimination. The conservatives allege that this is evidence of quota.
MARTIN: And, of course, what was very interesting, that case is being decided now while she is being -- going before the Senate very soon to possibly be confirmed.
LISA BLOOM, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: And, Jeff, probably less important than whether she's liberal or whether she is conservative is her reversal rate in the Supreme Court, having been on the court of appeals for so long. How does she stand there? TOOBIN: She has gotten three reversals in almost 10 years, which is not the best on all of the court of appeals, but it's a pretty strong record. And the three cases she was reversed on are highly technical cases that I don't think will cause anyone particular heartburn.
So, in terms of qualifications, it seems like she is untouchable. The issue will be ideology, I think.
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, I have a question now for Raquel.
It is about a comment that has been circulating widely, a comment that the judge made when she talked about the role of an appeals court. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, 2005)
SOTOMAYOR: All of the legal defense funds out there, they're looking for people with court of appeals experience, because it is -- court of appeals is where policy is made. And I know -- and I know this is on tape, and I should never say that, because we don't make law. I know.
(LAUGHTER)
SOTOMAYOR: OK. I know. I know. I'm not promoting it and I'm not advocating it. I'm -- you know...
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YELLIN: Now, there has been a lot of outrage among conservatives about that comment.
Raquel, can you explain for the nonlawyers watching why that is so outrageous to many conservatives?
RAQUEL RODRIGUEZ, ATTORNEY: Well, the last time I checked, the people who make the policy are -- are the Congress and the legislatures. The courts are there to interpret the law, which is the expression of the policy that is adopted by the elected branches of government.
And I think that's what has people who not only are politically conservative, but also those who are judicially conservative and who believe in the theory of restraint and that judges ought to be interpreting the law, not making the law.
BLOOM: Professor Ogletree, she has a long history of court of appeals judge and a district judge. But one would look in vain for any decision on the merits on abortion rights. Abortion rights only stand in this country by a 5-4 vote. Do we have a sense of where she stands there? CHARLES OGLETREE, HARVARD LAW PROFESSOR: I don't think so. And I don't think that you can have a litmus test at all about her views, because she's issued more than 400 opinions when she was on the district court appointed by George H.W. Bush, participated in thousands of cases on the -- 10 years on the circuit court.
And she's a careful, middle-of-the-road judge. I would like to say she is liberal. She's not. Progressive, she's not. She has affirmed more government cases than is normal. She is a tough prosecutor. She is a tough judge.
And those who will complain about a sentence in a script or sentence in a speech or an offhand mark are missing the point. Liberals and conservatives should be pleased that here is somebody dead in the center of the court. She is not going to move it one way or the other.
MARTIN: Alex, about 20 seconds. Your reaction?
A. SANCHEZ: I just want to say just on that point that she said the court of appeals makes law, you know something? She is essentially correct, as far as I'm concerned.
When a high court issues a ruling, that in effect has the force of law. So, those people that are objecting to that, they are really not objecting to that reality. They are objecting to who is going to be sitting on that court establishing the rules.
RODRIGUEZ: I have to disagree with Alex that on that.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: About 10 seconds, Raquel. Go ahead.
RODRIGUEZ: I think that what we care about is that the people who are issuing the opinions are not deciding what should be the correct policy, but what should be the correct law.
Alex is right, that law sets policy, but it should not be driven by a policy preference.
MARTIN: And, of course, we have got about two or three months or, if Republicans -- even longer, they say, to debate this issue and so many different others.
Alex Sanchez, Raquel Rodriguez, Charles Ogletree, we certainly appreciate it. Thanks a bunch. .
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Folks, we will take a closer look at the woman at the center of today's history-making announcement. Plus, will her nomination be the political battle of the summer? She already has got one endorsement from outside our borders, iReporter Jimmy (ph) in Toronto.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She is the new face of America. She's a woman. She is Hispanic descent. And with her moderate liberal views, she reflects the mainstream America today. This is what this pick should be about. And I think she will do a fine job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: Tell us your thoughts about Judge Sotomayor for the Supreme Court. Start dialing now, 1-877-NO-BULL-0. That's 1-877-662- 8550.
You can also drop me an e-mail, Roland@CNN.com. Or drop me a note on Twitter and Facebook.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: So, folks, will Sonia Sotomayor merely face the necessary scrutiny in the weeks ahead, or have Republicans just found fresh political ammunition against the president?
Jessica takes us through what is next.
YELLIN: Well, first of all, Roland, the White House is saying that Sotomayor will start meet-and-greets next week. That's when senators sit down and talk to her. They will be back from break then and begin that process.
She will also fill out an extensive questionnaire. At the same time, Senate staff will dive in to thoroughly vet her record. OK, so all that research is going on. What happens in terms of a schedule?
If President Obama gets his way, we will see a Judiciary Committee hearing in about mid to late July, followed by a committee vote. Now, if that's successful, then the full Senate would vote before Congress goes on recess in August.
The president wants Sotomayor confirmed before the new court is seated. But there are absolutely no assurances that Republicans will cooperate with that timeline. In fact, some are already indicating, oh, no, they need more time than that. They want to drag this out and examine her record longer.
MARTIN: Now, of course, already today, several prominent Republicans have already come up with their statements, not necessarily against her, but commenting on her status.
YELLIN: Correct. And that's a classic Washington style.
So, barring a scandal, Sotomayor seems likely to get confirmed. But, still, it won't stop a fight. So expect the GOP to take her on. Why would they take her on even if they think she might be confirmed? One reason is money. Openly challenging the president's pick has always proven a good way for the opposition party to fund-raise.
As a senator, tough questioning of a nominee is also a good way to boost your credentials within the party as a true conservative. And it can also energize the base, especially right now, when so many Republicans feel demoralized.
Still, of course they have to be careful not to be too hard. They don't want to alienate Latinos supporters, who are enthusiastic about this historic pick. And it is also a conservative balancing act. Groups want -- interest groups are calling her a hard-left activist judge who will try to make policy from the bench, so expect that storyline to emerge.
And, finally, keep in mind that the president himself voted against President Bush's two Supreme Court picks. So, many people would use that as justification for voting against her, if they want to.
MARTIN: Oh, the fun starts.
Let's bring in the rest of our panel, along with Republican strategist Leslie Sanchez, who served as an adviser for Hispanic education issues to former President George W. Bush.
All right, Leslie, how will Republicans do this, fight the nomination of Sotomayor, but not offend Hispanics?
LESLIE SANCHEZ, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: I think they can do a very good job.
It's a -- Roland, I see it more as an opportunity. And I have been speaking to Republicans about that all day. If you look at the fact that identity politics is the mother's milk of the Democratic left, it is Democrats who are talking about race and gender, not conservatives.
If the conservatives basically do a -- are objective in this process, a lot of people want to know more about the decisions she has made. And her qualifications are impeccable, but she has said a few statements that really cause us to pause. And I think as long as we fairly look and review her credentials, we are going to be fine.
MARTIN: Wow. I have never heard Republicans talk about race or gender.
(CROSSTALK)
L. SANCHEZ: Can we bring up one point? Can we bring up one point about that that's really odd?
Today, the White House releases this montage of like photos of her in childhood with her family and her kids. I don't know any other justices that the White House has done that.
MARTIN: They tried it with Alberto Gonzales when he was nominated for the attorney general by Bush.
BLOOM: Yes, I mean, that's pretty typical behavior.
(CROSSTALK)
L. SANCHEZ: This isn't Lifetime Television.
BLOOM: Leslie, today, right out of the box, Rush Limbaugh calls her a horrible pick. Mitt Romney calls her troubling. I mean, other than the fact that Obama nominated her, what exactly is the problem?
L. SANCHEZ: Last I checked, those two individuals are not in the Senate, with all due respect.
And I would -- I will make the case. There were seven Republicans who were in the Senate that voted for her last time in her last confirmation process. It would be difficult for them, I think, to not vote for her this time around. Obama certainly has the votes.
The question is, they have an obligation to look and vet -- look at this candidate and vet her based on her qualifications and her record. And I think, despite the fact she has a great, compelling story, that's what America expects them to do.
TOOBIN: OK, but, Leslie, finish the sentence, Sonia Sotomayor should be rejected because what?
L. SANCHEZ: I -- I don't think we have started the process yet.
I think what I'm saying is the same thing that any justice would want, was a fair opportunity based on her credentials and her qualifications, not based on her race and her gender.
TOOBIN: But -- but, I mean, we know something about her qualifications, because we know she's been...
(CROSSTALK)
L. SANCHEZ: Well, we know some of them.
TOOBIN: Well, we know she has been a federal judge for 17 years. We know she was a prosecutor. She went to -- had a distinguished education.
I mean, what -- it just seems to me, what -- how are you going to get traction in fighting her without an issue? Is it because she's an extreme liberal, she's a judicial activist?
L. SANCHEZ: Ah, very good -- very good question.
You know, I think, fundamentally, it's going to come down to judicial philosophy. They are going to look at also the fact that six of her cases have gone at the Supreme Court, and five of them were rejected. One is -- there's another one there that's pending, which is the New Haven case on affirmative action.
I think people are going to be very judicious in trying to understand what her philosophy would be moving forward, allow her to answer those questions, express herself. That's anything that any nominee would expect. YELLIN: And, Leslie, there is this.
Judge Sotomayor, in a diversity lecture back in 2001, said that -- quote -- I think we have a full screen of this -- "I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experience would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn't lived that life."
So, bottom line, is identity politics going to be the basis of this fight?
L. SANCHEZ: I think those are -- those are some of the questions, that statement, the statement she made in 2005 where she said, you know, that policy is made from the appellate court.
I think there's a lot of senators who want to take an opportunity to have her explain some of those positions, amplify that, and allow her to present herself as -- as the best case. There's nothing wrong with -- with vetting this candidate.
I think, the more we look at qualifications and credentials, the better off we are.
MARTIN: Leslie Sanchez, we appreciate it. Thanks a bunch.
L. SANCHEZ: Thank you.
MARTIN: Folks, it's a name many of us had never heard until today. But an extraordinary journey had led Sonia Sotomayor to this moment. Who is she?
And while this nomination is unprecedented, iReporter David from New York is not sure the president went far enough by settling on a longtime judge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID SEAMAN, CNN IREPORTER: I would have liked to see him take a bigger risk here. This is his first pick. It is a big deal. Instead, he picked someone who a lot of people were expecting, someone who was very predictable.
But, with that said, I think she will do a fine job, and she has a great history.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: So, what are your thoughts about Judge Sonia Sotomayor for the Supreme Court? Hit me up, 1-877-NO-BULL-0. That's 1-877-662- 8550.
Also, e-mail Roland@CNN.com. And drop me a note on Twitter and Facebook.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: Sonia Sotomayor -- man, I have been saying -- playing her name all day.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Sotomayor has one of those classic rags-to-riches stories that Americans just love.
The daughter of Puerto Rican parents, she grew up in public housing in the South Bronx. Her father died with she was only 9, and her mother worked two jobs to support her family.
Sonia didn't become fluent in English after her father died. But how much does her life story matter when it comes to her qualifications for the Supreme Court?
Here's President Barack Obama today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: she has never forgotten where she began, never lost touch with the community that supported her.
What Sonia will bring to the court, then, is not only the knowledge and experience acquired over a course of a brilliant legal career, but the wisdom accumulated from an inspiring life's journey.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: All right, folks, Jeff, Jessica, and Lisa are back with us.
And joining us, Erica Gonzalez, the opinion page editor for "El Diario/La Prensa," the oldest Spanish-language daily newspaper in the country, a paper still around. Great.
(LAUGHTER)
MARTIN: Stephen Carter is a Yale Law School professor and author. He was a classmate of Sonia Sotomayor at Yale. Also, in Miami, CNN special correspondent Soledad O'Brien. And she is getting reaction from the Latino community.
All right, Erica, pretty inspiring story, housing project in the Bronx, now, the daughter of Puerto Rican parents. Put this nomination, if you will, in context. What does it mean for Latinos or for the -- for the nation?
ERICA GONZALEZ, "EL DIARIO/LA PRENSA": Well, everyone is extremely elated, deeply proud, their hearts bursting. This is like the subject of phone calls, e-mails, the buzz on social networking sites.
So, this is -- this is a historic moment -- moment, not only for Hispanics, but Americans across the country. And her story is compelling, but it also reflects what Senator Obama was actually looking for. He said he wanted the candidate to be someone committed to constitutional values, and he would know as a professor who has taught constitutional law, and someone who identifies with the hopes and struggles of people.
This -- Sonia Sotomayor is exactly that person. And it's also a reflection of a long continuum. Hispanics have been contributing to this country for many generations. So, whether it is the Mexican- American women who worked the munitions factories during World War II...
MARTIN: Right.
GONZALEZ: ... Puerto Ricans who laid down their lives during Korea, or Cubans, Cuban Americans who broke through barriers in the Major League, this is a part of a continuum of Hispanics who have contributed to the story of this country, to making our country better, and who stand ready to contribute at the highest level of the judicial branch.
MARTIN: Stephen, you know her from Yale. Give us the insight into who she is and what kind of justice she will be if confirmed by the Senate.
STEPHEN CARTER, CONTRIBUTOR, "THE DAILY BEAST": Anyone who knew her at Yale Law School -- and a lot of us, of course, from my class were talking about her today -- remembers her as someone who had a penchant for hard work. You always saw her in the library late at night. She was also carrying a book around -- but also who loved arguments, who loved to sit around at the table after meals and argue.
But what was different about her, what made her different from a lot of other lawyers and judges, frankly, today, is that she had an enormous generosity toward people who disagreed with her. She never put them down. She never derided them. She never mocked them.
She listened to their arguments and responded to them thoughtfully. And if you look at some of the opinions she has written as an appellate judge on the 2nd Circuit, you will see the same quality of taking seriously the arguments she has disagreed with, which is something you see all too rarely today in judging or, for that matter, I suppose, in politics.
BLOOM: Soledad, there's a lot of pride in the Latino community across all the country today. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was taken aback a little bit when I found out this morning. First, I found out she's Hispanic. And she's a woman, then Hispanic, then Puerto Rican, and that she comes from my neighborhood. So, I'm so happy to know that someone from within my neighborhood has gone so high.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm Puerto Rican myself, so it makes me proud, to be honest with you, especially to be coming from this district or this -- this community, because it is -- it's hard. But if you apply yourself, you can always do -- move forward, do better in life. And she has proven that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLOOM: And you are down in Miami today. What are you hearing in the Latino community there, Soledad?
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: A very similar thing, a lot of pride. And you listened to two Puerto Ricans there. But we are hearing it from Latinos across the board.
And the other word you hear a lot of is historic, kind of in the same model as Obama, in the sense that here you had a guy who was a self-made man, perseverance, hard work, sort of the standard great American story that everybody loves. And, at the end, it ends well, that -- that, you know, achievement to the highest level is possible in this nation.
It is -- it's what everybody hopes the American story is. So, I think there was tremendous pride from the folks we spoke to, also think of her as a role model for generations of young Latinos, Latinas, and just other folks who see, in this country, you can make it no matter where you come from. That's a very, very powerful story...
(CROSSTALK)
TOOBIN: Soledad, in the '90s, the Latino population was considered politically sort of up for grabs. But, in recent years, they have been trending more and more Democratic. Do you think the Sotomayor nomination will have long-term political implications or is it just a sort of one-day story people were pleased about?
O'BRIEN: I don't think it is a one-day story. And if there are political implications, it is this.
I heard a lot at -- when we were at the inauguration of some Latinos very angry with President Obama, the newly inaugurated president, who felt like he had not reached out to Latinos enough.
Now, obviously, as we have heard many people say, you don't pick a judge -- you pick them on their merits. You pick them on their qualifications, not because you need to check the box of Latino. But luckily there are lots of qualified Latinos who could be in this position.
So, I think it is an important message that is sent to a community that as we all know, comes 2050 or really probably 2032 is going to be the majority population. Minorities are the majority on that date. That's really critical. And there are going to be huge political implications, I think.
MARTIN: I want to squeeze this in.
Erica, real quick, Hispanic reaction if the Republicans go after her, because of her ethnic background.
(CROSSTALK)
GONZALEZ: Well, Hispanics are definitely attentive. They want to know whether Republicans who opened a door to the federal bench to Sonia Sotomayor are now going the try to close it. Are we going to hear more voices like Colin Powell who are saying it's time to embrace a wider range of Americans or people who want to rotate the country back?
MARTIN: The same thing Republicans said about Democrats when it came to Alberto Gonzales.
We certainly appreciate it, Erica Gonzalez of "El Diario, Stephen Carter, who is also a contributor to "The Daily Beast."
And, Soledad O'Brien, we appreciate it. Thanks a bunch.
While Americans were relaxing this holiday weekend, North Korea was thumbing its nose at the rest of the world. The North set off an underground nuclear bomb, then launched some short-range missiles. Is there anything President Obama can do to stop them?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: We have been hearing from you folks at home all day about the choice of Sonia Sotomayor for the Supreme Court.
Hear this provocative iReport from Katy Brown in Virginia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATY BROWN, CNN IREPORTER: And if she is a good judge, she is a good judge. It shouldn't matter, the race of the person. Race is being played once again.
So, my question is, did he actually look at her background? Did he pick her because of the right reasons? Or did he just want to make another statement in America and based his decision on race?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: You know, if white guys get chosen, they never hit that question.
LISA BLOOM, ANCHOR OF TRUTV'S "IN SESSION": I was going to say nobody ever says that with the 107 --
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: The first 107 Supreme Court --
MARTIN: Right.
BLOOM: And they were chosen exclusively because they were white males. You know what's groundbreaking about this, she's also the first woman of color on the court.
MARTIN: Yes. BLOOM: And on my show today on truTV when this news broke, I had two women of color attorneys, one Asian, one African-American, both of them were in tears because of the symbolism, because the level of double discrimination that women of color face.
MARTIN: True.
BLOOM: I think it's especially important for them.
All right, folks, what do you think? Give us a call. The number is 1-877-NO-BULL-0. 1-877-662-8550. Your thoughts about Judge Sonia Sotomayor.
Also, drop me a line on CNN.com, Roland@CNN.com. And, of course, hit me on Twitter and Facebook.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: All right. Jeffrey is getting his groove on over here. All right.
She could be our first Hispanic Supreme Court justice, our third woman in that role. So what do you think of President Obama's supreme pick, Judge Sonia Sotomayor? Give us a call. 1-877-NO-BULL-0. 1- 877-662-8550.
But first, Jessica with "The Briefing."
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NATL. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Roland, North Korea defiant again. Late word this afternoon of yet another short- range missile test. That makes three since Monday's underground nuclear blast, all done right in the face of international outrage.
The U.S. ambassador to the U.N., Susan Rice, told CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING" it won't be tolerated.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUSAN RICE, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: If they want to continue to test and provoke the international community, they're going to find that they will pay a price because the international community is very clear this is not acceptable. It won't be tolerated and they won't be intimidated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YELLIN: Rice says the U.N. is working on sanctions that "have teeth."
The Minnesota teen who fled to avoid chemotherapy is going to get it anyway. A judge ordered Daniel Hauser's treatment today. Hauser went on the run for a week to avoid chemo because of religious beliefs. Doctors say a cancerous tumor in his chest has grown.
A federal judge says the Senate Ethics Committee will get to hear secretly taped conversations between U.S. Senator Roland Burris and former Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich's brother.
On the tape, Burris offers to cut a check to the governor's campaign. That was about a month before he was appointed to take President Obama's Senate seat. Burris' attorney tells CNN his client eventually decided against writing the check thinking it would be a bad idea.
And one more reason to hate your driver's license photo. Yes, here's a light story. Four states now have a no smiling policy. Really. Neutral expression --
MARTIN: No smiling?
YELLIN: No smiling.
MARTIN: Oh, come on.
YELLIN: Neutral expressions only in Arkansas, Indiana, Nevada and Virginia, says "USA Today." Apparently, here's the reason. Grinning messes up the facial recognition software meant to prevent fraud. We need to work on that software.
MARTIN: No kidding.
YELLIN: So that means guess who can't go back, grinning from ear to ear?
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Hey -- no, no, no.
YELLIN: How old were you in that photo?
BLOOM: Your picture is cute.
MARTIN: First of all, I always want (INAUDIBLE). I will smile. I'm sorry.
Check this. Keep the smile. Forget this ridiculous software. Who would want to look like a convict?
YELLIN: I like this photo.
MARTIN: I'm taking my picture like this. I'm sorry.
All right. Tonight, there are celebrations on one side -- that's ridiculous. Smile, folks.
Celebrations on one side, protests and even arrest on the other as the California Supreme Court weighs in on same-sex marriage. What's changed and what stays the same? Just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: Anger, disappointment and defiance on display. You're looking at live pictures of protesters in San Francisco venting frustration after hearing California's ban on same-sex marriage will remain. That's one of several demonstrations from coast to coast today.
California's Supreme Court upheld what the voters decided in November. Proposition 8 stands with same-sex couples who married before the ban get to stay that way. CNN's Ted Rollins live in Los Angeles.
Ted, it seems there's been a vocal reaction to the ruling and lots of it on the social media. Bring us up to speed where you are.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Roland, we're expecting a large gathering here in Los Angeles. You saw those pictures of San Francisco, basically across the state. Those that have been disappointed by this ruling have taken to the streets, so we're seeing thousands of people literally coming out in protest.
And this is an ongoing battle in the state of California. This decision by the Supreme Court, it was a 6-1 decision.
Basically, what the court said in their decision was that they say that Prop -- they say that Prop 8 was valid. They said that in the majority opinion that it wasn't up to them to really grade as to whether or not this was a wise decision, this Prop 8. But the decision itself by the voters was valid and that the voters do have the right to change the constitution in this state.
The minority opinion was written by Carlos Moreno. It was 6-1. He was by himself.
He said basically this was not just a defeat for same-sex couples but a defeat for all minorities in the state of California. This battle right now is just that, a battle of an ongoing war and it is clear that the same-sex opponents have won this battle but the vow is from folks that support same-sex marriage that they're going to take it again to the voters at the next opportunity possibly in 2010.
So what we're seeing tonight is just the next chapter really in the seesaw that the state of California has had on the issue of same- sex marriage back and forth, back and forth. But the other part that you mentioned, the 18,000 people that did get married, while it was legal, those marriages are valid according to the state Supreme Court -- Roland.
MARTIN: Of course, Ted, there are five states that do recognize same-sex marriage, Maine, Vermont, Connecticut, Massachusetts and Iowa.
As for public opinion, here's a recent CNN poll. Should marriages between gay or lesbian couples be recognized as valid? Forty-four percent say yes. Fifty-four percent say no. Majority of the country does not support same-sex marriage.
So, Jeff, is there a next step for pro-gay marriage supporters to go? Where do they go next?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Back to the voters in California. Simple as that.
YELLIN: They can't appeal this further.
BLOOM: No.
TOOBIN: You know, in theory, they could. But practically they can't.
BLOOM: This is an animal that's really unique to California and its initiative process, because they can change a constitutional interpretation by a bare majority. And that's what the court found.
You know to me this goes much broader than gay marriage in California. For example, a majority could now theoretically vote in California to get rid of interracial marriage or to say people over a certain age can't vote.
I mean, this is what California law is. That a constitutional interpretation protecting minority rights by the Supreme Court can be voted out by 50 percent plus one vote. That's what this decision does.
YELLIN: And they can undo it with another ballot initiative which we expect will likely be on the 2010 ballot.
BLOOM: Right.
MARTIN: But here's what interesting, all through the campaign, we heard Democratic candidates always say, even John McCain, leave it up to the states. Well, this is what happens when you leave it up to the states. The will of the people comes in.
BLOOM: But we have a constitutional system that's supposed to protect the rights of the minority from the majority rule.
MARTIN: OK.
BLOOM: And that's what didn't happen today.
MARTIN: Folks, more coverage of the same-sex marriage ruling at the top of the hour on "LARRY KING LIVE." San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom is among Larry's guests, starting in just a few minutes at 9:00 Eastern.
Ted Rowlands, we certainly appreciate it. Thanks a lot.
Folks, just ahead, some inside scoop from Vegas, of all places on the president's pick of the Supreme Court, Judge Sonia Sotomayor.
I'm going to keep it. I messed it up.
Smart choice says iReporter Melissa in California.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MELISSA FAZLI, IREPORTER, CALIFORNIA: She was raised by a single mom in the Bronx and still managed to go to Princeton and Yale. What a huge achievement.
I also think that Obama had squashed all those women lobbyists and all those people of Hispanic descent lobbyists, that one is, you know, someone of their descent on the Supreme Court.
Well, you got kind of a two for one, didn't you? You had a woman of Puerto Rican descent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: You got a constitution there. What do you think, folks, of Judge Sonia Sotomayor for the Supreme Court?
Give us a shout at 1-877-NO-BULL-0. 1-877-662-8550. Hit us on Twitter and Facebook. Back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: All right, folks, President Obama is playing Vegas tonight. That's right. He's at Caesars Palace along with Bette Midler and Sheryl Crow for a fund-raiser for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's re-election campaign. Senior White House correspondent Ed Henry is there too.
All right, Ed, the president's headlining the biggest fund-raiser we get to see this election cycle. What's the signal here? How important that the president view Senator Reid's re-election bid? Are they worried he might lose?
ED HENRY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: He's clearly going to bat for Senator Reid. We're told that all those Hollywood stars he's sharing top billing with here at Caesars Palace are going to help Senator Reid rake in over a million dollars. Sounds like a lot of money, but Senator Reid is predicting he'll need $20 million or $25 million for this race because of all the national Republicans that will be coming after him.
Right now, he doesn't even have a Republican opponent but the poll numbers here suggest he could be vulnerable. And so what's really going on here is the president wants to make sure there's not a repeat of 2004 when national Republicans took down the then-majority leader Tom Daschle back home in South Dakota.
The president needs Harry Reid especially now. You've got a weakened Nancy Pelosi as House speaker. Harry Reid is his MVP in the Senate on agenda items like health care reform but also, now getting this court nomination through as well, Roland.
MARTIN: Of course, you know it's Vegas when Ed has no tie on.
Ed, I got to ask you, the folks in Vegas, all is told the governor of Nevada there, not happy with President Obama because of the comments that he made about corporate junkets to Las Vegas. So, how is the White House dealing with this criticism because they've been swinging hard and heavy? HENRY: I think this is a case where what happens in Vegas doesn't stay in Vegas. It's instead become a big national controversy because it spread to other tourist destinations. When you talk to restaurants folks, hotel folks, they say Orlando, other big cities, have suffered from the comments.
The White House insists back in February what the president was saying was if you're taking the bailout money from taxpayers, you shouldn't go to Vegas and spend it there. But instead, a lot of people misinterpreted those comments and they thought he meant don't go to a big city like Vegas. Don't go to some other tourist destinations. Everybody should be cutting back.
What I'm hearing the president is going to do is not address it tonight but more likely tomorrow when he's got another event in Las Vegas. He's going to finally try to nip it in the bud by saying, look, I love Vegas. People should come here, spend your money. It's in the president's interest as well to have a strong tourist economy not just here but around the country, Roland.
MARTIN: Yes. You can roll the dice with Senator Harry Reid as he wants to give to.
All right, Ed. What are your sources saying about how the president arrived in the decision to nominate Judge Sonia Sotomayor?
HENRY: When you talk to top White House aides, what they say is there was no magic moment here for the president. All along, Judge Sotomayor was clearly on the radar screen. But the key is that he did not really know her. Hadn't really met her before this process, unlike other contenders like Janet Napolitano, who he knows very well as his Homeland Security secretary.
So what was pivotal was last Thursday, there was a meeting. She came to the White House very quietly, the judge did for six hours. Met with top people about an hour with the president, in fact.
But we're told that even after that meeting that went well, that one-on-one on Thursday, this weekend at Camp David the president came back to the White House Sunday night still uncertain. And his top White House aides say he finally decided late Monday evening. And I'm told about 8:30, from the White House residence, he called the judge, said you're my pick. That's how it came together.
MARTIN: All right. Ed Henry with the president in Las Vegas, thanks so much.
There's not much that happens in the Obama White House without the president's senior adviser and some say the most trusted adviser, David Axelrod, having a say. That's certainly true when it comes to the choice of Sonia Sotomayor for the Supreme Court.
Axelrod was one of a handful of top staff in on the vetting process. So if anybody knows what tipped the scales in her favor, it's David Axelrod. And he joins us right now.
Axe (ph), how are you doing?
DAVID AXELROD, SENIOR WHITE HOUSE ADVISER: Good, Roland. Good to be with you.
MARTIN: All right. Now, we know the president still hadn't made his mind up over the weekend as to who he was going to choose. So, really, what settled it on the judge -- Sotomayor versus the other candidates that he was considering?
AXELROD: Well, look, I think that she -- he was very favorably impressed by her and had an instinct in that direction for some time. But we all -- he also interviewed three other stellar candidates, any one of whom would have been a great choice for the Supreme Court. He weighed what each would bring and he ultimately at 8:00 last night made the decision that Sotomayor, Justice Sotomayor, would be the best choice.
She's got an incredible legal experience up and down the system as a prosecutor, as a litigator, commercial litigator, district court judge, appeals court judge. And she's got this great life story, this irresistible life story that will bring a perspective to the court that will enrich the decision making there.
MARTIN: Sources say the president knew the least about the judge, Sotomayor, so exactly how did he come to know her. Describe for us the phone conversation, the personal meeting that took place between these two.
AXELROD: By the time that he met with her last Thursday night, I think he felt he did know her because he had read through many of her opinions. He had read her biography. He was well familiar with her.
I think the discussion last Thursday night, which was just between the two of them in the Oval Office, centered very much on constitutional law, on the history of the court, on her approach to judging.
MARTIN: Of course, one of my favorite shows "The West Wing," they had this episode where a Hispanic judge was chosen for the Supreme Court. So after the president made the call, describe the mood, the feeling within the White House among the senior staff and others as it relate to what it meant to have this historic choice made by a historic president in terms of choosing her for the court.
AXELROD: I must say, Roland, that all of us were very proud this morning as he made this announcement as he spoke, as she spoke. There really wasn't a dry eye in the House because this is such a great story.
Up from the projects of the South Bronx, she worked her way up. She was a stellar student at Princeton, at Yale, and has been a success everywhere she went. And it's a great American story and with this appointment, as he said, you know, it's another advance for our country. So I think everybody felt great about the appointment.
MARTIN: David Axelrod, we certainly appreciate it. Thanks so much.
AXELROD: Thanks, Roland. Good to be with you.
MARTIN: All right, folks, lots of reaction tonight to President Obama's pick for the Supreme Court. What do you think? Give us a shout, 1-877-NO-BULL-0. 1-877-662-8550.
The e-mail, Roland@CNN.com and as always, I'm on Twitter and Facebook.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: All right, folks, we're back talking about the president's pick for the Supreme Court. Judge Sonia Sotomayor, historic no doubt. Controversial, some say that, too.
To the phone lines, let's go to Jackie in Columbus, Ohio. Hey, Jackie.
JACKIE, OHIO (via telephone): Hi. How are you?
MARTIN: Great. Your comment, please?
JACKIE: I just want to say that I think this is very historical, and it's very sad that Republicans are going to take this matter and turn it into a racial issue. I mean, come on. We've had the same justices for years and years.
I cannot see why there would be a problem with there being someone of a different race, a different face, and all this issue brings. And that's my comment. I think it's great.
MARTIN: Thanks so much. Let's go to the home of basketball great, Reggie Miller, Riverside, California.
Hey, Robert, your comment, please?
ROBERT, CALIFORNIA (via telephone): Yes, I just wanted to say while historic and wonderful I support Barack.
This is a fairy tale. She claims to be a Latina woman with the richness of experience, yet it's quite the opposite.
In her own words, she told us this morning she is half the woman her mother is. She has a failed marriage, no children. She spends her life immersed in politics of personal success.
BLOOM: Wow.
ROBERT: Richness and success is not having an extended family of law clerks, drinking with your law clerks and taking them to "Harry Potter." It's raising a family, having children, multiple jobs and marriage that succeeds. She's a Latina woman with richness of experience, no. She's a workaholic without a niche.
BLOOM: Wow. (CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: OK. All right. OK.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: Do we judge males by their lack of spouses and children like Justice Souter?
MARTIN: I mean, Ronald Reagan was divorced.
BLOOM: Are you kidding me?
TOOBIN: Yes, I mean. With all respect to Reggie Miller's hometown, I think that is a completely unfair criticism of Judge Sotomayor. The fact that she's divorced and the fact she doesn't have children, I don't think has a bit to do with whether she's a good -- she will be a good justice on the court.
YELLIN: You know, she did say that her own experience colors her views on the bench. And that where you come from matters and makes a difference. So it will be an interesting debate. He's bringing up the very points she makes which is that your personal experience informs your decisions.
BLOOM: And when she said she's half the woman her mother is, it's a very gracious comment to her mother.
MARTIN: That's a shout-out for mom.
YELLIN: Right.
TOOBIN: Right. Yes.
MARTIN: Also, Robert, half of the marriages in America fail. So deal with that one.
Let's go to Jose from Puerto Rico. Jose?
JOSE, PUERTO RICO (via telephone): Yes. Hello.
MARTIN: Your comment, Jose. Go ahead.
JOSE: Yes. We over here in Puerto Rico since we heard the news this morning, we are very proud of what Sotomayor has been doing and her nomination and everything. And everybody, it doesn't matter which political party they are part of over here in the island. Everybody is really happy and proud of Sotomayor and her family.
MARTIN: All right. Jose, thanks so much.
Let's go to Derrick in Missouri. Derrick, about 20 seconds. Go.
DERRICK, FULTON, MISSOURI (via telephone): Hey, Roland. Yes, Sotomayor, I think her education and experience is second to none. And I think the part of the nitpicking that you see taking place now is what's keeping our country from moving forward. And so, as a college student, I'm reassured and I'm satisfied and I'm content with the selection.
MARTIN: All right. Derrick, thanks so much. I appreciate it.
I'm still trying to figure out what the hell Robert was talking about. All right. I just got to go in and say that was just nuts.
YELLIN: New rule, no men with broken marriages allowed on the bench either.
MARTIN: OK.
BLOOM: Yes. Now women get judged. Women in power get judged.
(CROSSTALK)
TOOBIN: How about a dissent.
MARTIN: Get rid of the folks voting on them. All right, folks, more of these comments when we come right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: All right, folks, back with our panel now. Here's Rezbomb on Twitter with his tweet. "If all candidates' credentials are even, then we need more women on the court. One of out nine is a scandal."
Jerald on Facebook said, "America is changing and I love it. Not only the first Hispanic justice, but the first from the 'hood' -- South Bronx."
TOOBIN: Pretty interesting there.
BLOOM: I'm sure a lot of constituencies are happy today. I mean, she really covers a lot of different groups like that tweet says.
TOOBIN: And she will be the third Borough representative in the city because Scalia is from Queens, Ginsburg is from Brooklyn, and now the Bronx.
MARTIN: So it will be a throw (ph) down in the Supreme Court.
TOOBIN: Yes, absolutely.
BLOOM: We need some geographic diversity.
But you know, when you talk about religion, six Catholics now out of nine on the Supreme Court.
TOOBIN: Six Catholics and two Jews and only one Protestant. Half the country is Protestant but only one Protestant on the Supreme Court if she's confirmed. BLOOM: Some people think that's a concern. But the Catholics are so broad and diverse within the Catholic vote, though. Some very liberal, some very conservative. And that's representing on the court.
MARTIN: Well, pretty interesting there.
Jessica, final comments.
YELLIN: I think it will be interesting to see this debate about whether your biography informs your qualifications. It's her claim that it does and that's something that the U.S. is moving into this sort of new discussion.
MARTIN: And, of course, we saw a first run for office did the exact same thing. So, look at how it turned out for him.
All right, folks. I want to thank all of you who called and e- mailed a comment. Your voices are important and we love hearing from you.
Of course, the king is up next. "LARRY KING LIVE." Time for us to go. What do we say? Jeffrey included.
ALL: Holla.
