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Campbell Brown

Should President Obama Speak to Schoolkids?; Arrest Made in Georgia Mass Killing Case

Aired September 04, 2009 - 20:00   ET



RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Tonight, these are the questions that we want answered.

Why are some parents and schools refusing to let students hear President Obama's speech next week?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do believe that parents, parents, not the government, should decide what their children should be exposed to.

SANCHEZ: What is the real reason here?

Is there any way to stop men like Phillip Garrido from striking again? Can sex offenders be rehabilitated?

LISA BLOOM, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: There's no cure. There's no way to solve this problem, except to keep the offenders behind bars.

SANCHEZ: I will ask one convicted sex offender if that is true.

A naked woman in public. Is this art or a crime?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have been shooting nudes in public in New York.

By the way, why was the woman arrested and the male photographer not?

Plus, move over, Michelle Obama. Step back, Carla Bruni. There's a first lady in town, and she's out of this world. No, I mean, really. She says she's an alien abductee who traveled to Venus on a UFO. That's tonight's breakout.

Also, the video you have got to see, the college football game that started with handshakes and ended with a sucker punch.


ANNOUNCER: This is your only source for news. CNN prime time begins now.

In for Campbell Brown, Rick Sanchez.

SANCHEZ: And hello again, everybody. We're going to begin this newscast today with some breaking news, another twist in a story that's been chockful of them. We have just gotten information in this Brunswick, Georgia, story that we have been following that has to do with this man, Heinze Jr., who was the man called 911 to tell police that he had found seven people dead inside his home.

The quote to police at the time was, "My family, my family's all dead."

Since then, an eighth person has died. There may be a ninth. There's a 3-year-old toddler in the hospital. The 3-year-old is on life support, we learned earlier today. Now, police had charged him with disturbing the scene, but we didn't know at the time whether he was actually going to be charged with the murder. There had been a lot of hints. Police had denied it. Then they had said he wasn't a suspect.

Well, apparently, all along, he has been a suspect. And we have just gotten this piece of paper that confirms it. I will read it to you. It says, Brunswick, Georgia, Guy Heinze Jr., the son of one of the victims of last week's brutal killings of eight people in southeast Georgia, has been arrested for eight counts of first-degree murder.

We are expecting a news conference. It should be happening any moment now. Part of what makes this story so eerie is, he's the one who called police to report the murders.

So, before we go to our correspondent who is on the scene waiting to fill us in, let's go ahead and take a listen now to his voice calling police to let them know what had happened when he came home.


GUY HEINZE, FAMILY MEMBER OF VICTIMS: I just got home. My whole family's dead.

911 OPERATOR: OK. Tell me what's going on, sir. What...

HEINZE: Yes, I just got home from -- I was out last night. I got home just now. And everybody's dead.


HEINZE: My dad's dead.


911 OPERATOR: How many people are there?

HEINZE: There's like six. My whole family's dead.


SANCHEZ: Sean Callebs is joining us now. He has been diligently following this story for the better part of the last four or five days.

He was the one who first told us that police had said that he had taken a shotgun , that Heinze Jr. had taken a shotgun from the scene and tried to hide it before police arrived. It led us all to believe that he may have been a suspect then. But then police backed us off the trail. And now tonight, this startling development.

Sean, pick it up for us if you could.

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this has certainly had a lot of twists to it.

All I can you is, we just got information from the Brunswick police chief, Glynn County police chief, just a short while ago, this hastily called news conference. And this gets more and more bizarre, because I spoke with the family, the brother-in-law who lost five members of his family of those eight who were killed.

And I asked him specifically about Guy Heinze Jr.. He said, we have no reason to suspect that he is involved in this until police tell us. He said the police had basically kept the family in the dark. And he certainly supported all the work the authorities had done.

We're trying to figure out what information may have led police, but this is certainly a shocker. This is certainly something that the whole community has been talking about. You can imagine eight brutal murders in a small town like this, a small coastal town.


SANCHEZ: Well, you know what? It may be good news for some people in the community, because you have been reporting -- and we have been talking to folks who live in that community who say they haven't been able to sleep, that they have been thinking all along that there's a killer out there who was going to strike again, and now this latest information is it was a family member himself, the very person who called 911.

Sean Callebs, let us know if you get any other information on this. We thank you for that, for filing that report.

Meanwhile, the rest of the news today involve several stories. That's what we call our "Mash-Up." Let's take it.

We're going to start with Labor Day, and the president is in no mood to rest, apparently not. CNN has learned that Mr. Obama and his staff are quietly drafting a plan B health care plan, which would substitute plan A, which Republicans had referred to as the Reid and Pelosi plans. In other words, the president is taking ownership.


SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: We have learned the White House could possibly reverse course from its position on solely letting Congress come up with a health care plan. ED HENRY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: we're hearing from these sources close to the process that the White House is leaning against including a public option in here, instead, leaning more towards something like a trigger.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They plan on trying to convince the liberals in the House to take one for the team. There's too much riding on this. Their fortunes will rise and fall ultimately on the success of this president.

NEIL CAVUTO, FOX NEWS: This would fly in the face of the approach the president's taking on health care right now, have Congress come up with it.


SANCHEZ: There you have it.

Meanwhile, the drama continues at town halls all over the country, including one in California, where a guy's pinkie finger was bitten off. True story.

A reminder. You can see the president's address at the joint session next Wednesday at this time, right here on CNN.

Meanwhile, here's the change this Labor Day. AAA says 13 percent fewer Americans are going to be driving to the beaches and lakes this weekend. And it could be because more Americans are jobless -- 9.7 percent of Americans are now unemployed.

What part of the news was emphasized today? Well, it depends on who you ask.


CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The jobless rate now for the duration of this recession has doubled.

MALVEAUX: To 9.7 percent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The highest since 1983.

ANDREA MITCHELL, NBC: The worst numbers in 26 years.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two hundred and sixteen jobs disappeared last month.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Obama administration is looking to, well, put the best face on it that it can.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Obviously we're on a trajectory that's moving in the right direction.

JOSEPH BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are making progress with substantially less job loss than we saw a few months ago. ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We have seen the curves go back up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's some moderation occurring here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A movement going in the right direction.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These results are less bad.


SANCHEZ: Well, the last time that unemployment was that high, 1983.

Moving on, a NATO airstrike against a pair of Taliban hijackers may have knocked out the targets, but here's a problem, a serious problem. NATO is admitting now that civilians, lots of them, were killed and it could cause major political damage.


BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: At least 90 people, militants and civilians, were killed when NATO warplanes bombed these hijacked fuel trucks in northern Afghanistan. Once more, Afghan citizens are burying their dead and NATO is apologizing for what may be another mistaken and controversial attack on civilians.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Local officials say that when the trucks got stuck in the mud, the Taliban then offered the fuel to villagers who were gathered nearby. Those villagers were still there when the missiles were launched.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Defense Secretary Robert Gates also knows that every incident like this undermines America's larger mission.

ROBERT GATES, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Is there a tipping point where the Afghans begin to see us as part of the problem?


SANCHEZ: The caveat to that story, Afghan president Hamid Karzai said he was deeply saddened by the deaths. Both he and NATO have launched a thorough investigation.

I told you earlier about unemployed Americans. Here's 10 more. Military contractors who were working as guards at the U.S. Embassy in Kabul are accused of getting naked and doing things -- doing things that frankly I can't even tell you about on television without getting in trouble myself. Eight of them are fired, two quit, and their bosses, they have all been asked to step down.


TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Ten private security guards accused of wrongdoing at the U.S. Embassy in Afghanistan have been fired or resigned. We're told they are leaving Kabul today. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The pictures in question, of course, show civilian guards throwing those wild parties, groping each other, playing drinking games.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The job of these guards was to protect U.S. diplomats and embassy staff personnel in Kabul. Investigators say their supervisors often encouraged these actions.

JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST, "JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE": You guess whether it was taken at the U.S. Embassy in Afghanistan or during spring break on the Mexican Riviera.

Was this taken in Kabul or Cabo?


KIMMEL: And the survey says, Kabul. No, that is Kabul.



SANCHEZ: The bigger question, meanwhile, that many Americans are now asking is, why is our tax money being used to hire so many military contractors, more than perhaps at any point in U.S. history, according to studies? Here's another question. Who's replacing them? If you guessed more contractors, you would be right.

And finally five great sharks, great white sharks, have been spotted just off the coast of Cape Cod. So, seriously, listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The sightings were confirmed by the State Division of Marine Fisheries, which said one of the sharks was definitely a great white.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They may be great whites.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The concern however is not enough to close the beaches this final weekend of the summer. Right now, the town's strategy is to be on alert.


SANCHEZ: All right, come here. Kids, gather around. Back when mom and dad were dating, one of the scariest makeout movies was the 1975 classic movie. It was called "Jaws." And you know where it was set? Martha's Vineyard. There you go, your lesson for the day on movies.

All right, you all know Whitney Houston is back, right? She took to the stage earlier this week in New York to launch her comeback. In tonight's "Punchline," Conan O'Brien is going to tell you who's one of her biggest fans. And you're not going to believe it.


CONAN O'BRIEN, HOST, "LATE NIGHT WITH CONAN O'BRIEN": A new book claims that Osama bin Laden is a huge fan of Whitney Houston.


O'BRIEN: Yes, in fact, bin Laden says it was Whitney who gave him the idea to disappear from sight and only surface every few years. That was his -- she thought of it. He's like, oh.



SANCHEZ: And now you should be thoroughly caught, because that tonight is the "Mash-Up."

Here's tonight's big question. Is it the beginning of the end of the U.S. embargo on Cuba? Could it possibly have been? Most of us have seen this or lived with it our entire lives. This thing has hung over both countries like a dark and nasty cloud for almost 50 years. And now we understand even more travel restrictions have been lifted.

Well, we have got the woman right here -- you're going to hear from her -- who made one of the very first return flights.


GABBY EBORALL, CUBAN AMERICAN: I'm going to visit my mother's family, her -- my uncles. I have like four uncles here, lots of cousins we have never met, people we have never met. And I'm just excited to be able to come with my daughter and share this experience. I have been wanting to come my whole life.



SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez, filling in for Campbell Brown.

It's only 90 miles from the United States, but it's enemy territory, has been for about 50 years now. Is that finally about to change?

Yesterday, the Treasury Department formally lifted nearly all restrictions on family travel to Cuba. Americans can now visit their relatives on the island.

If you will allow me for just a moment, I want to share something a little bit personal with you from me. I'm an American who was born in Cuba.

And let me tell you, this is a very sensitive issue for us, for my parents and for the community where I grew up. My mom and dad, they still will not go back to Cuba until they feel like it's a free country, until it's not communist, even if it means that they're not able to see their own family and have to make that sacrifice.

That's what they thought when they left. That's what they think now. All right, now I want you to meet somebody who disagrees with my parents. My next guest took the first flight from LAX, Los Angeles, back to Havana in June. Take a look at this.


SHASTA DARLINGTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tensions mount at Havana's International Airport. Finally Continental flight 1923 taxis in. The first direct flight from Los Angeles in five years. Cuban Americans can now travel back to the island freely. Gabrielle (ph) and Kendall (ph) Eborall have never been to Cuba.

EBORALL: I'm going to visit my mother's family, my uncles. I have four uncles here, lots of cousins we've never met, people we've never met. And I'm just excited to be able to come with my daughter and share this experience. I have been wanting to come all my life.

DARLINGTON: Washington eliminated restrictions on Cuban Americans visiting their relatives and also broadened the definition of family.

EBORALL: That's my uncle. I haven't seen him ever. I have never met him.


SANCHEZ: Oh, my God, to see you in tears.

Gabby Eborall is good enough to join us now.

Gabby, how are you?

EBORALL: I'm fine, thank you. How are you, Rick?

SANCHEZ: What's it like? Explain to the viewers. I think I can share in part of this experience, but I want you in your words to tell them what it's like to go to a strange and somewhat forbidden place to see your own relatives?

EBORALL: It's hard to describe.

You know, it was very fulfilling for me personally to be able to visit my mom's homeland that she's talked about for so many years through my whole life. So, it was just a beautiful time for me to be able to share that with my daughter, Kendall (ph), and my mom.


SANCHEZ: What was it like to walk down the streets of Cuba knowing that to a certain extent that you had been taught all your life that you were kind of in enemy territory and that you had heard from your parents really bad things about the Castro regime, for example?

EBORALL: Actually, that didn't happen in my home. I wasn't taught -- my mother didn't talk about politics too much in the house. She talked about the good times that she had with her family. Castro was -- it was kind of whispered. It wasn't really talked about much in our home.

SANCHEZ: Well, let me tell you what's not whispered.

There are people probably in South Florida, some of them living in parts of New Jersey and scattered all over the country who say that we shouldn't do anything with Fidel Castro because he's a communist and there are people in political prisons to this day who are suffering.

What do you say to those folks when you explain to them that you felt the need, and you are free, and the law now says you can go to Cuba and visit your relatives?

EBORALL: I say that, for me personally, I go to Cuba or I went to Cuba to see family that I had never seen before.

And I can't speak to that, because I just basically had no concept of it. My personal goal was to just visit and be with family.

SANCHEZ: Well, let me give you a little concept, because some people would argue, though, that, Gabby, you should have a sense of what is going on, that you owe it...


SANCHEZ: ... to those people who are being imprisoned to understand, if nothing else, their plight before you make a decision.

Let me introduce you to somebody.


SANCHEZ: This guy's become very famous. He's a political prisoner in Cuba now. His name is Panfilo. His video has gone viral. All he wanted to do was go on tape one day and say that he was hungry. It's interesting. I will take you through this.

Go ahead and play it, Renee (ph).




SANCHEZ: All right, jama means eat.

So, a reporter is doing an interview with that guy you see right there in the hat. And the guy tries to ask him serious questions, all right? This guy jumps in and he starts saying, you know what it's all about here? The problem here in Cuba is jama, jama. There's no food. There's no food.

OK. Innocent enough. Maybe he's had a couple, too many drinks. He's in prison. That guy is put in -- he's put in prison for saying that. It would bother most people. Does that bother you? And is that the kind of thing that we should try and get the folks in Cuba politically to stop doing before we commit to sending people there?

EBORALL: I don't know the circumstances of what that -- at that particular moment, what was going on. That was -- could have been anybody on the streets that I saw in Havana.

You can see crazy people saying crazy things in L.A. Will they get imprisoned for it? No. That's a communist country. That's the rules. I mean, it is what it is. And there's nothing I personally can do about that. I went to go see family. My family had plenty of food. They fed us what they had. We caught fish ourselves and made it that day. So, that was my Cuban experience.

SANCHEZ: And it's a good thing that people have an opportunity to share these things.


SANCHEZ: And, Gabby, we thank you. We thank you for coming on and sharing your experience. And we're going to continue to do this, because this is a story that really hits close to home to many South Floridians.

EBORALL: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Take care.

EBORALL: Thank you. And -- thank you. Thank you so much.


SANCHEZ: Be good. We appreciate -- and thanks for sharing part of your story with us.

EBORALL: Hey, and thanks to Cuba Travel Services for getting me there from LAX.

SANCHEZ: There you have it, Cuba Travel Services.

Meanwhile, parents pulling their kids out of school because the president's giving a speech. Tonight's big question is, really, what's going on in this country? We want to know from you.

Also, can violent sex offenders ever really be rehabilitated or should they be locked up forever? I'm going to be talking to a convicted child molester, a convicted child molester. And I'm going to ask him if he can really be cured or rehabilitated.

Stay with us.


SANCHEZ: Tonight's breakup, the new first lady who believes that she was abducted by aliens and who says that she knew Tom Cruise in a former life. You can't make this stuff up, folks. Here's a clue. Her husband -- her husband is about to control the world's second largest economy. Question to you, who is she? And you can't go on the Google, by the way. We will be back in two.


SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.

This is something a lot of Americans are talking about at their dinner tables. President Obama is set to talk to kids Tuesday. And some Americans are furious. They don't want the president to talk to their kids. Reasons vary. Some are calling it the first step to indoctrination, like socialist indoctrination.

And now some schools are caught in the middle.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president's address will be live on the Internet. The Department of Education says that he will encourage students to stay in school and work hard. But some parents and conservative critics are calling it socialist brainwashing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But in some optional preparatory materials, students were asked, how can I help the president? That has ignited a firestorm, with Republicans charging that the president is seeking to indoctrinate students with liberal policy propaganda.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Department of Education has revised that recommendation that kids write letters to see how they can support the president. That's a tacit acknowledgement that that was probably a little bit over the line. The White House and Education Department wish it hadn't gone that far.

JOHN ROBERTS, CO-HOST, "AMERICAN MORNING": Some school districts in Texas, Illinois, Minnesota, Missouri, Virginia, and Wisconsin have decided not to show the speech. And other schools will let parents keep their kids out of the classroom during the speech if they want. And many parents are even considering keeping their kids home from school altogether on Tuesday.


SANCHEZ: And now the White House is weighing in on this.

Today, White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said -- quote -- "I think that we have reached a little bit of a silly season" -- silly season, he says -- "when the president of United States can't tell kids in school to study hard and to stay in school."

Steve Perry is a CNN education contributor and the founder and the principal of Capital Preparatory Magnet School in Hartford, Connecticut. He's good enough to join us. And Tad Miller is good enough to join us as well. He is one of the parents who doesn't want his child to hear the president.

Mr. Miller, we're going to begin with you.

Why not? Why wouldn't you want your son or daughter to hear the president of the United States?

TAD MILLER, PARENT: Well, I think it's really important to first say that it's any president of the United States. And it's unfettered access. Those are the two biggest points.

Whether you're a Democrat, a conservative, a liberal, a Republican, if it doesn't matter. If Ronald Reagan were alive today and he wanted to address every single child in America, I think people would look at that and say, that's just a little bit weird. And it makes parents very, very uncomfortable that somebody can wield that much power, without...


SANCHEZ: Interestingly enough, Ronald Reagan did address children. He did so in 1988. It was November 14. And we have got a clip. Let's watch it.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My name is Cam Fitzhugh (ph). And I'm from Saint Agnes School in Alexandria, Virginia.

I was wondering if you think that it is possible to decrease the national debt without raising the taxes of the public.

REAGAN: I do. That's a big argument that is going on in government. And I definitely believe it is because one of the principal reasons that we were able to get the economy back on track and create those new jobs and all, was we cut the taxes. We reduced them.


SANCHEZ: Steve, not only did Ronald Reagan, back then, talked to kids, he actually talked to them, as we heard, answering that question about policy. Why wasn't there anyone back then complaining about Mr. Reagan talking to the kids.

STEVE PERRY, CNN EDUCATION CONTRIBUTOR: Rick, I understand that we're at the end of the summer break but that doesn't necessarily mean that people should take a break from good sense. We're talking about the president of the United States. We're not necessarily talking about a local accountant who is coming in during his day off to speak to the kids about a career day. This part of the education process. SANCHEZ: But Mr. Miller, we just heard from Tad Miller and he said he doesn't want any president, he doesn't even care if it was Ronald Reagan, George Bush, any president, Republican or not.

Am I getting you right, there, Mr. Miller?

MILLER: You have a great point. That is exactly what I'm saying. The issue here as well is that Ronald Reagan did not shut down the school system for an hour to address our children without any prescreening of a speech, I mean, you know, we're talking about a pretty serious issue, where a man can get into the minds of our child. And it's, you know, poorly planned to begin with.

SANCHEZ: Those are interesting words, though. "Get into the minds of your child".

PERRY: At some point we have to begin to acknowledge that we're not talking about a good conversation between people who want reason, and who want education. This is a political dogma, that I, as an educator, have to tell you that in order for children to learn they need to be consumers of information. They can't just be fed information upon, upon information.

If this individual feels like his child is so impressionable that any person who speaks to him, especially the president, will change his mind forever and a day, he has a right to not want his child to have that. But at some point, we have to understand the education is the information. It is the exchange of information. It is not putting your child in the house and closing the doors. Because when a president does go on for the State of the Union, virtually all of the network who cover news, go black and they just put...

MILLER: Can I reply to that?

SANCHEZ: Please, Mr. Miller, go ahead.

MILLER: He is saying fantastic things, the network, that's great, and that's in my home, and I control what's on my television. He also touches on the point of, you know, stepping into the mind of the child. Well, you know what? I have got a five-year-old and a six-year-old. I am not about to let anybody but his educators, who is follow a plan, talk to my child and possibly --

SANCHEZ: I take it by the way you're a conservative and a Republican?

MILLER: You know what, I have voted for Republicans all through my life. I am a conservative. I did vote for Ross Perot. But it does not matter.

SANCHEZ: OK, no. We just wanted to have that on the record.

PERRY: But it's important ...


SANCHEZ: We're about out of time.


MILLER: Why do you talk to me about how I voted? I think everybody should state who they voted for.

PERRY: But it's about the fact that we often underestimate the intelligence of children, the capacity they have to discern what is good and what is not. If you have taught your children to think for yourselves.

MILLER: We're talking about a five-year-old and a six-year-old.

PERRY: We're talking about the president of the United States ...

MILLER: We're not talking about seniors in high school.

PERRY: speak on behalf of the country, which in fact, he represents, your country, you as an American. He represents your country, then you have a right to speak.

SANCHEZ: Gentlemen, we're going to have to leave it there. But I thank you both for your passionate opinions on that.

MILLER: Thanks for your time.

PERRY: My pleasure.

SANCHEZ: We appreciate it.

Coming up, tonight's next "Big Question", can sex offenders, like the man who's charged with kidnapping Jaycee Dugard, actually be cured? I'm going to talk to a convicted child molester and he's going to talk to us, right here, I'm going to ask him that question. This becomes very nitty-gritty and very personal.

Also Japan's new first lady says she's been to Venus. That's right Venus. She also says that she was abducted by aliens. Did I tell you that she's going to be Japan's first lady? I did? You'll hear more.


SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.

There is a new development in the case of Phillip Garrido. This is the guy charged with abducting Jaycee Dugard and making her his sex slave, while getting her pregnant twice. Even tough to say, tough to report.

Here is the new lead: A woman who asked him for advice about a flyer she was putting together to keep kids safe, got more than she bargained for at one time from him. And she didn't know it. Little did she know at the time that this man she thought was a printer was also a child molester. Irony of ironies. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

He had said I had left something out. You know, next time you might want to put in children should never go to a bus stop by themselves. They are no match for adults. You'd tell people to send their kids in a group. Have them all walk together. It's better that way.

And he said that doesn't even matter. Because if the pedophile - and I can't be sure that's the word he used, I just don't remember - wants a child, he'll just walk up to the group and they'll scatter and they'll just grab one.


SANCHEZ: Just yesterday, police said, Garrido was arrested for drugging and raping -listen to this, drugging and raping a 14-year-old girl. This is back in 1972, nearly 20 years before Jaycee was taken. That case never went to trial. There may be others like that coming up now.

How do we get into the mind of someone who would be capable of doing something like that? Tonight's newsmaker, something that's probably going to affect you, as much as I'm sure it's going to affect me. His name is Jake Goldenflame. He's a convicted child molester.


SANCHEZ: He's been out for 18 years and he sought help while he was in prison.

Total transparency, I'm bothered by the fact that I have to talk to you to night, because I have I have three kids.


SANCHEZ: Is that OK?

GOLDENFLAME: I understand.

SANCHEZ: Do you still want to be can kids?

GOLDENFLAME: Let's put it this way, the urge will always come up. Once your erotic compass is set, it stays set. But how great that urge is, how much power it has, is up to you. That you can control.

SANCHEZ: All right. You're sitting on a park bench somewhere, in a park, and a young boy walks by?

GOLDENFLAME: That's right.

SANCHEZ: Are you still attracted to him?

GOLDENFLAME: Yes, but what comes up at the same time is the message that I have trained myself to bring up every time that happens. And the message is to me. And the message is: You're in danger, right now, at this moment. When you are feeling that urge, you are in danger. And what that triggers me to do, instead of go after the child, is to find a way to put my attention elsewhere, so I get out of danger.

SANCHEZ: So, for the record, you're answer is yes. You're still physically attracted to that young boy?

GOLDENFLAME: Yes. Yes, that will always be there. But the urge will not be overpowering.

SANCHEZ: Why shouldn't a guy like you be locked up for life?

GOLDENFLAME: Because I don't harm anybody. And our system, from day one, in the United States, has always been that we're a nation of self-governing people. And as I say on my web site to other offenders, so long as you govern yourself, no one else shall govern you. That's our system.

SANCHEZ: Why should I trust you?

GOLDENFLAME: Why should you trust the police is what you really mean? Because they are the ones who monitor us.

SANCHEZ: You guys are smarter than the police. And you know damn well, that's true.

GOLDENFLAME: No, I really can't agree with you there, sir. I'm sorry, Rick, I got to take exception with you. I know and have come to work with a number of people in law enforcement over those last 18 years, and believe me, I would never say I'm smarter than the police.

SANCHEZ: Then why do we hear about this guys like you doing this all the time. Why don't we hear about this guy Garrido, who was doing it for what --30 years, before anybody knew he was doing it? Why don't we hear about guys like him who go into prison, they get out of prison and they do it again, and again, and again?

GOLDENFLAME: Well, I must answer it this way, that particularly in the Garrido case, you're talking about the present time when our parole and our prison staff is stretched so thin because we have so many people in the prison system now, there aren't enough people to do all the monitoring that's necessary. That's how it's easy to get away with it. If that's what you want to do now compared with years ago.

SANCHEZ: That is exactly the point I was just making to you, a little while ago. That you are telling us that a guy like you can go out and you can restrain yourself.


SANCHEZ: And with all due respect, I'm not sure you can, but you're saying that you can. But there may be another guy out there just like you, who is not able to restrain himself. And I'll be damned if I'm going to let my three boys be around those guys. GOLDENFLAME: OK. The difference, and this is the key difference, is not only is there a way that a person can restrain themselves, but there has to be a reason to do so. There has to be a motive for them to do so.

And that's the area that I'm working with now, with the offenders I'm in contact with, giving them a motive that will last, as to why they should to ahead and stay in what we call relapse prevention.

And I'm joined with several former survivors of sexual abuse. Adults who have had a history of being raped, or incest victims, together, we just recently formed a non-profit organization, for the purpose of working with sex offenders when they come out on parole.

SANCHEZ: How did you do -why did you become this way? Did somebody do this to you when you were a kid?

GOLDENFLAME: Yes, yes, yes.

SANCHEZ: So, usually, this thing is passed on generationally, isn't it?

GOLDENFLAME: I have met hundreds of sex offenders by now. They either have written me, or I have been in prisons as a speaker, and I must tell you, Rick, I have not yet met a sex offender who was not abused as a child.

SANCHEZ: My thanks to you, sir, for taking time to do this interview. I appreciate the information that you have shared with us as parents.

GOLDENFLAME: It's a privilege to have been on with you, sir. Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Thank you.

There is a new first lady in town -- not in this country, but one of our most powerful allies and she claims - she claims, she's been abducted by aliens.


SANCHEZ: Move over, Michelle Obama, the same for you, Carla Berlusconi, Sarkozy, wait until the world gets a load of Japan's next first lady.

She says she road in a UFO. Says she knew Tom Cruise in her past life. You thinking about this one? Think some more, because here's Kyung Lah with tonight's "Break Out" story.


KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): America's first lady may be grabbing the fashion headlines, but Japan's soon-to-be first lady is capturing out of this world attention. Miyuki Hatoyama, in an interview on Japanese television, she claimed to know actor Tom Cruise, not in this life, but in a previous life. Cruise's closest Japanese connection may be his role as the star of the "The Last Samurai".

But Hatoyama says Cruise was Japanese in his previous life and he'd know her if they met.

On the same talk show Hatoyama says she eats the sun.

"Like this, like this," she says, saying her husband does it, too.

Her husband, Yukio Hatoyama, in a stunning political upheaval this week led his opposition party to overthrow Japan's long-standing ruling party. The new party in charge promises to shift Japan's economic strategy and it's relationship with the U.S. led effort in Afghanistan.

Before the dust settled on the election, the eccentric writings Hatoyama's wife began to surface, like this spiritual cookbook.

(On camera): Mrs. Hatoyama also wrote this book. There is a two-month waiting list to get it on Amazon. You can't find it in any bookstores in Japan. It's called "Very Strange Things I've Encountered. And she says a very strange thing.

She says that while she slept, her soul rode on a triangular shaped UFO and she went to Venus. In case you're wondering, Mrs. Hatoyama says Venus is very beautiful and very green.

(Voice over): Mrs. Hatoyama is a new breed of first lady for Japan. A divorcee and a former actress, she openly says she commands more equality from her husband and is unafraid to express her thoughts.

TOMOHIKO TANIGUICHI, ADJUNCT PROFESSOR, KEIO UNIVERSITY: Definitely refreshing, fun to look at, and fun to learn more about, because she's so different.

LAH: Political analyst Tomohiko Taniguichi believes this UFO talk is harmless for now, he points out she has the ear of the most powerful man in the world's second largest economy.

TANIGUICHI: If she tries to intervene in the political decision making process, then the people's reaction would be changed dramatically. But at the moment, the nation is in its honeymoon period for this newcomer.

LAH: Whether quirky comments from a wife would affect global policy remains to be seen. Political watchers anxiously await for unearthly happenings from Japan's new first family.

Kyung Lah, CNN, Tokyo.

(END VIDEOTAPE) SANCHEZ: As we continue tonight, I want you to know that a nude model is going to be sitting right here. Show them, Renee.

You see that area right there, there's going to be a nude model that's going to be sitting right there. A nude model, I'm not kidding, and there's a very serious journalistic reason why I have to share this story with you -- really.


SANCHEZ: Welcome back to New York, I'm Rick Sanchez.

I want to take you through a series of pictures now, all taken by the same photographer, recently here in New York City.

Here's the first one: It shows a naked model in the middle of a crowded subway car. Here's another one. Let's pop this one, it shows a naked model on a city street. Here's another naked model in the middle of Times Square. None of these pictures got this photographer in trouble, interestingly enough. But this picture, the one he had taken here at the Metropolitan Museum of Art, it got the nude model arrested. Both the photographer , Zach Hyman, and his nude model, Casey Neil, join me now in the studio.


SANCHEZ (On camera): If you look at this and you start to wonder, Renee, if you could. Do me a favor? Put that shot up again.

That's you?


SANCHEZ: Some would say in the buff?

NEIL: Some would say.

SANCHEZ: Now this may be art, would you say its art?

ZACH HYMAN, PHOTOGRAPHER: I would definitely say it's art.

SANCHEZ: But what is it to the people who happen to be there?

HYMAN: I mean, especially in an art museum, it becomes a bit of a performance piece.

SANCHEZ: Hold on a minute. Put that picture back up, Renee. Look at that little kid I just saw in that shot. See that little kid over there, holding the t-shirt? Why should his mom, who took him to a museum, to look at things, have to expose him to what you consider to be art?

HUMAN: Well, my reply to that would be why would she take him to the MET in the first place? There are thousands of nude statues and nude paintings. And what Casey did there was no more vulgar than any of those. SANCHEZ: You really think so? Don't you think there's a big difference between something where people in the art community and around the world have decided, this is art and we are going to accept this, as opposed to something you decided to do helter skelter, somewhat foolheartedly?

HYMAN: If you take a look at these images, they're not pornographic, they are artistic, they are posed. They're composed and as a photographer I can look at these and see the merit and value of an artistic endeavor.

NEIL: Art itself is something that creates a discussion that people can have. We wouldn't be sitting here right now if some people didn't consider it art, and some people didn't it for them.

SANCHEZ: But you know, we all grew up with it. You know, I have a dad and we all have dads and one of the things that our dad is, look, you don't show your behind in public. I mean, that's the thing that they say. It is almost a way of saying be respectful toward other human beings. Is this disrespectful?

HYMAN: Listen, my whole deal with that is, you know, we are raised in a specific way and we are raised in a society that tells us dos and don'ts, and how-to and how not to. As an artist, as any artist will tell you, is you have to go against social norms and conventions. So, this , obviously, is what is happening, but -but.

SANCHEZ: Isn't there a huge slippery slope there?


SANCHEZ: I mean, look, to sit here and just say, you have to go against social norms and I'm being creative. That's a little bit of a cop out.

HYMAN: There is more to it.

SANCHEZ: All right.

HYMAN: The fact that we all have these parts, the fact that we have been told for so long to cover ourselves, to cover our emotions, to cover our feelings, and a lot of other things, but those being prime examples, to me is what is wrong with our society.

SANCHEZ: So you're making a political statement that we should be more free in other words.

HYMAN: It's a political statement, but, you know, this can parallel so many things.

SANCHEZ: So it sounds like you're an artist, but you're also trying to make some political statements.

HYMAN: Yes, I guess.

SANCHEZ: I think a lot of people who are watching out there, I know I would have been if I had my daughter, or my young child, or my son, or my daughter, there, I probably would have been somewhat offended that you chose to do that without asking if that's OK. You understand why people might feel that way?

CASEY: Why would you take him to a place like that when all greatest artists have done --

SANCHEZ: Because the conventions of our society have decided that those were proper.

NEIL: But why is that OK, that somebody else, like them, get to decide what's right and what what's wrong?

SANCHEZ: And for the same reason we have norms in all kinds of different things that we all agree to.

NEIL: But look at other countries. I mean, this is not a big deal.


SANCHEZ: There is a major breaking story that we have been following for you, we're getting it out of Brunswick, Georgia right now. A huge arrest is about to be announced. We'll tell you what it is, stay with us.



SANCHEZ: ...on the loose. Even the last interview, there he is now, the last interview he did with our own correspondent, he was talking about that. Talking about starting this news conference in one minute.

Let me fill you in. See that guy right there, that's Guy Heinz, Jr., he's the guy that called and said I have just come into my home and I have found seven people dead, eventually it was eight people dead, it still could be nine people dead because there's a three-year- old who's on life support.

Well, all throughout, police had to announce that he was really a serious suspect. They said maybe they are looking into them. They did say that they had found him trying to get rid of a shotgun and hide it when they got to the scene. But guess what, they are now saying he is the suspect.

They are charging him with the murder of eight people. Could turn out to be nine. This is breaking news. We are all over it. You could see it on Live.

I'm Rick Sanchez. Here now, is my friend, Larry King.

LARRY KING, CNN ANCHOR, LARRY KING LIVE: Tonight, a former Charles Manson follower, who was there when the brutal crimes were committed, breaks her silence. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was told to go get a change of clothing, a knife, my driver's license.


KING: About the murders that shocked a country and the mad man who ordered them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I started hearing, like, just horrible screaming.

KING: Plus an exclusive with Sharon Tate's sister; she was there as the woman who savagely stabbed the actress and her unborn baby without mercy, was denied parole. Deborah Tate tells us why Susan Atkins should die behind bars, next on "LARRY KING LIVE".