Return to Transcripts main page

Campbell Brown

Presidential Media Blitz; Who Is Yale Murder Suspect?

Aired September 18, 2009 - 20:00   ET



CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Tonight, here are the questions we want answered. Will a presidential P.R. blitz save the Obama agenda? Not one, not two, three, four, five network interviews.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Are there people out there who don't like me because of race? I'm sure there are.

BROWN: Tonight, CNN's John King fresh from his sit-down with the president on what was said and whether it will help get health care reform back on track.

BROWN: Also, who's the real Ray Clark?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a dear friend of ours.

BROWN: Charged with killing Yale grad student Annie Le.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't say that I believe he's guilty.

BROWN: His friends can't believe it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not the Raymond Clark that I know.

BROWN: From good guy to murder suspect, new clues tonight about the real Raymond Clark III.

Plus, would you be a guinea pig for the H1N1 flu vaccine? What if you were pregnant?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Made me a little nervous. And it's not just me. I have a baby.

BROWN: How do we know the vaccine is safe? Tonight, a fact check.

And the "Saturday Night Live" crew hits the nail on the head. James Carville watches James Carville. Our breakout, a moment you have got to see tonight.


ANNOUNCER: This is your only source for news. CNN prime time begins now. Here's Campbell Brown.

BROWN: Hi, everybody. Those are the big questions tonight. But we start, as always, with the "Mash-Up," our look at the stories making an impact right now, the moments you may have missed. We are watching it all today so you don't have to.

And we begin with some breaking news in the terrorism investigation that has stretched from coast to coast this week. We saw raids in New York and Denver and tonight authorities say one of the men being questioned has admitted he is connected to al Qaeda.


JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: An administration official who's familiar with the matter says Najibullah Zazi has now admitted ties to al Qaeda. He has been in the building behind me for three days talking to the FBI. The official who I spoke...


BROWN: We're having some problem with that tape there, but the suspect is a 24-year-old Colorado resident and Afghan national. Sources close to the investigation tell CNN the alleged terrorist plot may have been targeting a major transportation center like a railroad or a subway station. There were apparently plans for an attack, possibly in the New York area.

In Washington today, a presidential round-robin, five interviews, five TV networks, one goal for President Obama, to turn the page, quiet the noise, get his health care reform effort back on track. But one issue proved inescapable, the matter of his race and whether that is a factor in the increasingly heated debate.

The president spoke with CNN's John King. We are going to bring you that interview in just a little bit. But here's how he tackled the race issues on NBC, ABC, and CBS.


B. OBAMA: I think that race is such a volatile issue in this society, always has been, that it becomes hard for people to separate out race being sort of -- that part of the backdrop of American society vs. race being a predominant factor in any given debate.

Are there are some people who still think through the prism of race when it comes to evaluating me and my candidacy? Absolutely. Sometimes they vote for me for that reason. Sometimes they vote against me for that reason. I'm sure that was true during the campaign. I'm sure that's true now.

Part of what's different today is that the 24-hour news cycle and cable television and blogs and all this, they focus on the most extreme elements on both sides. They can't get enough of conflict. It's catnip to the media right now. And so the easiest way to get 15 minutes of fame is to be rude to somebody.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BROWN: Again, John King's interview with President Obama coming up.

With the story of populist rage drowning out the story of a broken health care system, the White House clearly in damage control mode. Today, Press Secretary Robert Gibbs insisted being angry at the president is an American tradition, nothing we haven't seen before. Here he is today on message.


ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I think if somebody was standing up here in a previous administration, they might say that passions ran quite high. I think passions ran high. I recall passions running high around our involvement in Iraq. We all have to check our emotions, despite the depth of our beliefs.


BROWN: We should note, Gibbs has a point here. Liberals certainly spared no effort in trashing George W. Bush. Here's a sampling of some of the rage of yesteryear. Now, that said, not many racist signs attacking President Bush. Can't say that -- or can't say the same, rather, for President Obama.

A very busy day at the White House, the administration bringing out the big guns for the health care push, today, a very strong plea from first lady Michelle Obama, who is definitely in sync with her husband.


MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY: Under this plan, we can save lives and we can save money.

B. OBAMA: It save money and save lives. When I was running for president...

M. OBAMA: During the campaign

B. OBAMA: I never said change would be easy.

M. OBAMA: Change is hard.

B. OBAMA: Change is hard.

M. OBAMA: The status quo is unacceptable.

B. OBAMA: I will not accept the status quo as a solution.

M. OBAMA: It is unacceptable.

B. OBAMA: We had a slogan.

M. OBAMA: Fired up.

B. OBAMA: Fired up.

M. OBAMA: Ready to go.

B. OBAMA: Ready to go.

M. OBAMA: Fired up.

B. OBAMA: Fired up.

M. OBAMA: Ready to go.

B. OBAMA: Ready to go. Let's go change the world.


BROWN: The first lady made a strong pitch for women's support in the health care battle, saying that women are disproportionately affected by the crisis. Expect to see a whole lot more of her in the coming weeks.

Over now to Iran and another day of massive protests, anti- government activists clashing with supporters of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Take a look.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tens of thousands of people heading towards Tehran University. There, President Ahmadinejad made another searing speech targeting Israel and Washington.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today's marches were supposed to be government-organized rallies against Iran's enemy, Israel. President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad once again declared the Holocaust a lie and said confronting Israel is a national and religious duty.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With Ahmadinejad coming to the U.S. next week, the U.S. said today Iran now faces a choice, cooperation on the nuclear issue or defiance and isolation.


BROWN: The White House spokesman called Ahmadinejad's comments about the Holocaust ignorant and hateful, saying that they would only isolate Iran further from the rest of the world.

BROWN: Back here on the home front, a new high-profile job for one of the Bush twins. Jenna Bush-Hager delivered her first report on NBC's "Today Show." She interviewed Dalton Sherman, an 11-year-old dynamo who has wowed thousands with his inspiring speeches. Take a look.


JENNA BUSH-HAGER, NBC: Since I said I'm really new at this and kind of nervous, give me some tips.

DALTON SHERMAN, 11 YEARS OLD: Say the words clearly so people can understand them.







What grade do you give me?

SHERMAN: I give you an A-plus.

BUSH-HAGER: An A-plus?


BUSH-HAGER: Amazing.

You went and gave this huge speech in front of all of the Dallas public schoolteachers, right?


I believe in me. Do you believe in me?

BUSH-HAGER: What were you thinking when you were standing on that stage and saw 17,000 teachers below you?

SHERMAN: I was thinking, daddy, this is a lot of people.

BUSH-HAGER: Dalton's interests include hanging out with friends and playing basketball. So, I challenged him to a little one-on-one.

I'm going down. Told you. Good one, D.


BROWN: All right, Not as easy as it looks. The TV job is part- time for Jenna Bush-Hager. Hager's other gig is schoolteacher.

Former President Clinton is dishing on some of his recent meetings with world leaders. Just Monday, he grabbed lunch with President Obama here in New York. He talked about it last night on "The Daily Show," where Jon Stewart asked the money question.


BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I was, first, honored that he called and wanted to have lunch. And he was down on Wall Street, so we ate down there. We ate at Il Mulino, had a wonderful meeting. And... JON STEWART, HOST, "THE DAILY SHOW WITH JON STEWART": Who paid?

CLINTON: We split it.


CLINTON: I didn't know we split it. I intended a treat. But I read in a paper that we split it. And the press is never wrong, so I'm sure that's right.



BROWN: Next week, a big one for the former president. The Clinton Global Initiative hosts dozens of current and former world leaders right here in New York.

And that brings us to the "Punchline" tonight. This is courtesy of the "Saturday Night Live" crew on weekend update Thursdays, Amy Poehler, Seth Meyers back at the anchor desk, really.


SETH MEYERS, ACTOR: Really, Kanye West? You interrupted someone again? Really?


MEYERS: It was interesting when you spoke out about President Bush and Hurricane Katrina, less so when you're standing up for Beyonce and the single ladies video, really.

POEHLER: But you know who else is rude? I mean, Joe Wilson.

MEYERS: Really.

POEHLER: Hey, Joe, yelling you lie would be rude to a valet or a waiter. So, maybe don't yell it at the president.

MEYERS: And, Serena Williams, really, take it down a notch when you get mad at that line judge. You didn't have to say anything. Just moments earlier, you threw your racket down so hard, it bent in half.

POEHLER: If you're going to go after people, maybe pick better targets. No one is impressed when you take your stands against 19- year-old girls, tiny Asian ladies, or the first black president.

MEYERS: Really. Who are you going to go after next, koalas?

POEHLER: Baby koalas?

MEYERS: I mean, really.

POEHLER: Rude, really. MEYERS: Really.


BROWN: Amy Poehler and Seth Meyers, everybody. And that is the "Mash-Up."

We are on top of this hour's breaking news for you, a source telling CNN the man at the center of an alleged terror plot targeting New York admits he has ties to al Qaeda. Jeanne Meserve is talking to her sources and is going to bring us up to speed in a live update coming up.

And CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION" anchor, John King, has just wrapped up a one-on-one interview with the president. What does he think of his critics?


B. OBAMA: The things that were said about FDR are pretty similar to the things that were said about me, that he was a communist, he was a socialist. Things that were said about Ronald Reagan when he was trying to reverse some of the New Deal programs were pretty vicious as well.




BROWN: President Obama has just wrapped up an interview with CNN anchor John King for our Sunday program, "STATE OF THE UNION," and John King is joining me now for a preview.

John, all week the White House has been trying to stay above the controversy over whether the intense opposition to the president has been based partly on race. And you asked him about that. What did he say?

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I did, Campbell. I put to him what former President Carter has said, that the "You lie" from the floor of the House of Representatives, some of the signs at these rallies around the country, swastikas with Obama's picture on them, signs saying beware of Afro-socialism.

So, I put the question to the president. Like former President Carter, like some leading Democrats in Congress, do you believe, sir, this is because of racism?


B. OBAMA: Are there people out there who don't like me because of race? I'm sure there are.

That's not the overriding issue here. I think there are people who are anti-government. I think there are -- there's been a longstanding debate in this country that is usually that much more fierce during times of transition or when presidents are trying to bring about big changes.

I mean, the things that were said about FDR are pretty similar to the things that were said about me, that he was a communist, he was a socialist. Things that were said about Ronald Reagan when he was trying to reverse some of the New Deal programs were pretty vicious as well.


KING: And so cautious language from the president there. Is it racism? Yes, in part, he says. But note he also tries to deflect it to the deeper anxiety, economic anxiety, opposition to his policies, Campbell, the president acknowledging some racism, but clearly not wanting to stoke this debate much further.

BROWN: And John, I know it was a wide-ranging interview. Give us a sense for what other topics you covered with him.

KING: It was a fascinating conversation. We asked the president, might he have to break his pledge not to have to raise taxes on the middle class as part of the health care debate. He was interesting on that issue. We talked quite a bit about the momentous decision he will face in the weeks ahead about sending more troops into Afghanistan and whether he might be delaying that decision because of the politics here at home.

We talked about a letter he received this week from seven former CIA directors saying, please stop the Justice Department investigation into Bush-era interrogation tactics. And we also, Campbell, spent a little time how the Obama family, not as president, but as a parent, how he's helping his family prepare for the H1N1 flu virus.


BROWN: CNN chief national correspondent John King there. And of course you can see his entire interview with President Obama on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION" this Sunday, 9:00 a.m. Eastern time.

And we have breaking news tonight in an alleged terror plot against New York City, a source telling CNN that a man being questioned now admits he is linked to al Qaeda. We have new details on this coming in right now when we come back.


BROWN: Breaking news tops tonight's download. Let's get right to Erica Hill for that -- Erica.

ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And you mentioned this right off the top of the show, Campbell. We're continuing to follow breaking news in the investigation into an alleged terror plot that may have been targeting major transportation centers right here in New York.

CNN homeland security correspondent, Jeanne Meserve, is in Denver right now with the latest.

Hi, Jeanne.

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Erica, an administration official who is familiar with the matter says that Najibullah Zazi has now admitted to officials that he does have ties to al Qaeda, this after days in which Zazi and his attorney both denied that they had any links to terrorism.

In addition, this official says the government is now exploring what charges it might be able to bring against Zazi. And the official says that, down the road, a plea agreement of some sort is possible.

Now, we don't know exactly what Zazi is telling the federal government. He's been in there being questioned by the FBI for three days. But we have been told that an unclassified Homeland Security note is going out tonight to transit authorities and also law enforcement.

DHS issued a statement about it, saying in part, "While DHS and FBI have no information regarding the timing, location, or target of any planned attack, we believe it is prudent to remind transit authorities to remain vigilant."

Authorities have said for days that they believed this case was the real deal. This would indicate they were right -- Erica, back to you.

HILL: Jeanne, you mentioned that Zazi's been meeting with the FBI for three days, or been questioned for three days. I know he's been there this morning, according to a spokesperson for his attorney, since 9:00 a.m. Do we know at all if he's actually under arrest?

MESERVE: Well, we have been advised, the media out here, not to stick around, that we won't see anything of him leaving tonight. But we have also been advised not to speculate on what exactly that might mean -- Erica, back to you.

HILL: Jeanne Meserve live for us in Colorado.

Jeanne, thanks -- Campbell.

BROWN: All right, Erica, thanks.

What could make someone so mad at a co-worker that he would commit murder? Tonight, a closer look at the cops' theory in the killing of a Yale grad student.

Plus, for the first time in weeks, they are back, protesters out in force once again in the streets of Iran.


BROWN: In Iran today, something we haven't seen in weeks, demonstrators in the streets, this time turning the tables on President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. He allowed public rallies today and gave a speech bashing Israel.

But his critics seized the moment to take him on, and all of this on the eve of Ahmadinejad's visit here next week, as he prepares to address the U.N.


BLITZER: Crowds taking to the streets once again in Iran -- this protests in Tehran, an annual pro-Palestinian rally, among them, thousands of green-clad supporters of the opposition movement.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Witnesses tell CNN government opposition supporters gathered near the city's Revolution Square. While they chanted anti-government slogans on one side of the street, supporters of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad chanted pro-government slogans on the other. They were chanting death to America and death to Israel. A line of police stood between the two groups.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Street protests in Iran and new anger directed at a president accused of rigging his own reelection. What you hear is chants of death to the dictator. This is amateur video posted now on YouTube and believed to have been shot today in Tehran.


BROWN: Some perspective now on the new rallies and next week's visit. I sat down just a short time ago with CNN chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour.


BROWN: So, this is the first time in two months that we have seen the opposition out on the streets. What's going on?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Look, it's significant, because everybody wondered what would the opposition do after really being beaten back, back in July, so many people arrested, so many people with allegations of torture, so many people killed during the opposition marches.

So, would they come out? And would the leaders come out? And they did, not in huge, huge numbers that we saw right after the elections, but, nonetheless, significant numbers, plus, Mousavi, Karrubi, former President Mohammed Khatami. And this is a big deal.

BROWN: In advance of his trip here to New York, Ahmadinejad has been doing a number of interviews -- interviews, rather. He -- several reports now quoting him saying yet again, the Holocaust is a myth, the Holocaust is a lie, a false pretext for the creation of the state of Israel.

What do you make of the timing of this?

AMANPOUR: Well, look, this is -- this was Al-Quds Day, which means Jerusalem Day. It is a 30-year tradition now in Tehran, since the Islamic Revolution, that they come out in support of the Palestinians.

And any opportunity he gets, Ahmadinejad is always questioning the Holocaust. He is now a notorious Holocaust denier. And he's being sharply reprimanded by just about everyone in the rest of the world. It does appeal to certain people.

But here's what's interesting. Iranians on the streets today could be heard saying, not Gaza, not Lebanon; we give our lives for Iran.

And even though the protesters were out, big, big groups of pro- government people were out, too. They were allowed to come out. They were bused in. They were organized. So, there were big -- there were big protests.

BROWN: Our ambassador to the U.N., Susan Rice, says that President Obama will not meet with him, with Ahmadinejad, when he comes in for the U.N. General Assembly, but give us an update on where things stand right now in terms of talks with Iran or plans for talks with Iran over the nuclear issue?

AMANPOUR: Well, it's not surprising that the presidents won't meet. We will wait to see whether they're in the same General Assembly room when each other speaks. And apparently they're scheduled to speak on the same day, Wednesday.

The United States has said that, despite all of this, it plans to stick to the administration's promise of trying to have negotiations with Iran. So, they have decided to join bilateral talks, join the P5-plus-one on nuclear talks. And that is meant to happen on October 1 for the first time. So, we will see where that leads.


BROWN: Tomorrow night, Christiane leads CNN's investigation "General Islam," the struggle for the hearts and minds of the next generation of Muslims. That is tomorrow night, 8:00 p.m. Eastern time.

And, then, tune in a week from Sunday, on September 27, 2:00 p.m. Eastern, for the premiere of her new weekly program, "AMANPOUR."

Should you get the H1N1 flu vaccine? What if you're pregnant? Is it safe? A lot of questions about this right now -- a fact-check coming up for you.

Plus, we usually like to stay out of the way when certain cable channels take cheap shots, but, tonight, we're standing up to a flat- out lie being told about CNN by the FOX News Channel. It involves something you saw on this network many times in recent days.


BROWN: We want to take a moment right now to clear up some misinformation being spread by the good folks over at FOX News. Look at what I saw when I opened my newspaper this morning. This is a FOX News ad saying CNN -- quote -- "missed" last Saturday's massive tea party protest in Washington, implying we didn't cover it at all.

Well, that's just not the case. I was watching on Saturday, our team was all over that story. We had four reporters there. There were two live trucks and more than a dozen staffers. Heck, we even sent the CNN Express. Check it out.

But, wow, this is a big ad. FOX wouldn't have just made this up, right? Or would they? Hmm.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The tea party express in today with a march on Washington.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are at Freedom Plaza, just a few blocks from the White House. This is where they're going to gather, and later this morning, they're going to leave from here and march down Pennsylvania Avenue to the U.S. Capitol.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our political correspondents have got this thing covered for us today, and there they are.

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Oh, yes. We are in all corners of it on the nation's capitol.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This crowd has been growing, as you mention, by the minute. In about an hour from now, they're going to march directly down Pennsylvania Avenue behind me to the U.S. Capitol. They're going to go to the west front. That's where Kate Bolduan is.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Pardon me if you can't hear me. They're getting -- it's getting (INAUDIBLE) off and it's getting loud.

LISA DESJARDINS, CNN RADIO CAPITOL HILL CORRESPONDENT: It's alright. You can hear me. This crowd is not just here about health care, but they're here about a lot of issues that they're obviously upset about. Right now, they're chanting "speak out the truth." They've been talking a lot to me about what they think CNN --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm proud to be here representing America, the constitution, and everything that we love so dearly.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are Republicans, Democrats, independents, who finally decided, enough is enough.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm just proud to be a part of this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The crowds keep getting larger.

DESJARDINS: I got a question.

JIM SPELLMAN, CNN ALL PLATFORM JOURNALIST: If most of the people that are there for low taxes, less government control, but there really is an element that got these kind of outlandish conspiracy theories about death camps and about, you know, this takeover, people comparing President Obama to Hitler. It really is a sizable threat. It's not just a couple of people on the edges.

VOICE OF T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: These folks are tired of being taxed, they're tired of this government, and they're not too happy about some of the big health care reform plans out there and they're letting their voices be heard.


BROWN: Well, what do you know about that, apparently, CNN was there. Still, we can understand the confusion over at FOX. It may be tough for them to recognize actual reporting. Sometimes they do forget there is a difference between covering an event and promoting it.

Saturday's march was a major news event. CNN covers major news events. It's what we do. It's why we're here. So to think that we'd "miss something that big," well, that's just ridiculous.

Let me also add, the FOX ad sends a false message that we at CNN are not listening to a whole lot of people out there, that their views somehow don't matter to us, and that their events don't merit our attention. And that's also just not true. When we cover a story, we try to present all sides of an issue. We approach our coverage without bias and tell you what you need to know, not just what we think you want to hear. And that's why we're all over those protests on Saturday.

And right now, I do want to bring in three of the CNN journalists who were there, who reported the day's event, Kate Bolduan, Jim Spellman, Lisa Desjardins, all joining us right now.

And, Kate, you were there. You were at the rally all day. What did you think when you saw that FOX ad?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: To be honest, I mean, you opened it up and at first I laughed because it was just wrong, I mean. And then, I looked for an asterisk, honestly, to see it say, oh, wait, actually we were all over it. We were reporting it.

I mean, I was there starting at 9:00 a.m. My live shot started at 10:00 a.m., throughout the day. My last live shot was after the rally was over and people had left, and I did a follow-up piece the next day.

I mean, we can talk about whatever we want to talk about, but the simple fact is, the ad was wrong, and as you mentioned Campbell, so prominently placed. It's such a massive ad. It's just disappointing and frustrating from our perspective as journalists when we're reporting a story to see that misleading print be out there.

BROWN: And, Kate, you were actually standing right next to a FOX crew for most of the day, weren't you? BOLDUAN: Absolutely. I mean, we were on the podium, we were in the crowd, and for part of the day, right next to the FOX crew. So I'm sure if whoever was behind us advertisement had spoken to their crew on the ground, they would have gotten exactly what the truth was. We were there. Many people were there.

As you said, this is a big story to cover, and that's why we were there. Big concerns being talked about. Health care, people concerned about big government spending. That's why we were covering it, and it's misleading to say that we weren't there. I mean, it's just -- it kind of makes me giggle, even now.

BROWN: And, Jim, you were out with the so-called tea party express bus for more than two weeks. You've been to dozens of their rallies. Why was it important to you to cover them? What was your goal as you set off on that trip?

JIM SPELLMAN, CNN ALL PLATFORM JOURNALIST: Campbell, and I covered it across the country in the bus with them, sitting right next to a FOX News correspondent as well. So I agree that it's quite frustrating.

But, you know, beyond just a march in Washington, it's a really important story. This is where all of the dissent, all the people that are frustrated with what's happening with the Obama administration, health care, the bailout, this is really the tea parties are aware, this is all coming together out there. They don't really have a leader to rally behind. They're not -- they're often as frustrated with Republicans as the Democrats. The tea party movement is where they are voicing their concern, Campbell. And that's why -- you know, that's why I was out there covering it.

BROWN: And, Lisa, I know you filed more than eight reports on Saturday's protest for CNN Radio. You also spent all day out there. And I want to play one of the memorable moments on television. Take a look.


LISA DESJARDINS, CNN RADIO CAPITOL HILL CORRESPONDENT: Can I ask you guys something? Let me ask you guys something. I've got a question.

I've got a question, everybody. I want to bring this all together. You guys are on air right now. I want to ask the crowd -- I want to ask you --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let them speak. We don't need to be like this.

DESJARDINS: I'll ask you --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let them speak.

DESJARDINS: What do you think of Congressman Joe Wilson?


DESJARDINS: So there are -- there are people that strongly support Congressman Wilson, and many of them are right here.


BROWN: And, Lisa, you've been to a lot of the tea party rallies right now. You've covered a lot of them. How does Saturday's event compare? What did you hear from the people that you spoke with?

LISA DESJARDINS, CNN RADIO CAPITOL HILL CORRESPONDENT: This was easily the largest rally. I could tell the crowd right away, you are a massive crowd. You know, I have to say, though, at that rally, I saw more of your middle ground signs about spending, liberty, freedom. The most popular thing that you saw there was probably a revolutionary banner. I didn't see as many signs as I had seen at town halls that, you know, Obama is Hitler, those kinds of things.

I actually have to say, honestly, I saw fewer of those at this rally. As for this FOX ad, I think we're in a dangerous position as the media. What you saw there at the crowd, you know, saying tell the truth, tell the truth, to me, there is so much mistrust of media. And I think the fact that we even have to go through this right now, CNN versus FOX, you know, and I guess everybody versus FOX in that ad, it just takes away from time that we could be spending doing real stories. And I think it adds to that mistrust, unfortunately, which is a real problem.

BROWN: An excellent point. Lisa, appreciate it. Kate and Jim, thanks so much, guys. Appreciate your time tonight.

BOLDUAN: Thanks, Campbell.

BROWN: A buddy, boyfriend, teammate. That's the Ray Clark his friends know, but police say he is a killer. Tonight, we're going to talk about the two sides of the man suspected of murdering a Yale grad student when we come back right after this.


BROWN: New developments tonight in the killing of Yale grad student Annie Le. Last Sunday, the day her body was found strangled and stuffed behind a wall in a lab building, the man now charged with her murder was playing softball as if nothing had ever happened.

Tonight, two strikingly different portraits have emerged of accused killer Ray Clark III. Take a look.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The police chief himself, James Lewis (ph), was saying that they collected something like 300 items of evidence. So that tells us that they pretty much believe, you know, they have their man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ray to me has been a long-term friend of mine that I've known forever and now everybody who have only known him for the past week has now considered him just a cold-blooded killer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A law enforcement source tells the "Hartford Courant" newspaper an investigator saw the lab tech trying to hide a cleaning equipment and later that equipment was found to have blood splatter on it.

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: We've heard some stories of neighbors that he's very controlling of the woman he's with. We've heard people from the lab say he's extremely controlling.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've never known Raymond to be a violent person at all. This is not the Raymond Clark that I know. And, honestly, at the time being, I can't say that I believe he's guilty.


BROWN: So who is the real Ray Clark? A dear friend, as you heard there, or cold-blooded killer?

CNN's Randi Kaye has been covering the case and is joining us from New Haven. Psychoanalyst Bethany Marshall is in Los Angeles, and then here with me in New York, I have Carolyn Reinach Wolf, who is a workplace safety expert.

Randi, let me start with you first, because I know you have found out more about what's going on with the investigation. What can you tell us?

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I can tell you, Campbell, that authorities have interviewed 150 different people, including the people who were employed in that lab where Annie Le worked. And after doing that, though, they really became focused on Ray Clark, in part because of the videotape taken from the security cameras in that lab building, from that security system there. Authorities viewed more than 700 hours of videotape, and a source close to this investigation with good knowledge of this investigation told me that they saw on that video Ray Clark leaving that building after someone, possibly him, pulled the fire alarm, and they said that he had his head in his hands and he looked distraught.

Also, that same source telling me that Clark's DNA clearly connects him to the murder scene, indicating that the victim's DNA was found on the suspect, on Ray Clark. I can also tell you that they have been tracking Ray Clark since before Annie Le's body was found. As you mentioned, on Sunday, the day that her body was found, Ray Clark was playing softball and I've learned today that detectives were in the crowd watching his every move, there on the bleachers there.

And also that at the beginning, they didn't want him to know that they were watching him, and then, Campbell, as the tracking went on, as they continued to tail him, they decided to change their tactics and they did let him know. They stood around his apartment outside, clearly showing their badges, hoping, maybe even playing a game with him, that he would come outside and talk to them -- Campbell.

BROWN: And, Randi, there have also been these reports that police might be making a second arrest? Can you shed any light on that?

KAYE: I actually asked the chief of police here in New Haven about that today directly in his office, and I said, what about all these reports. And all along he said that he has been saying this is a one-person investigation, a one-suspect investigation. He said, sure, the investigation has to proceed, may take them to someone else, may lead them to someone else. They're still talking to people and interviewing people, but right now there is nobody else that they are focusing on.

BROWN: All right. Bethany, we heard Raymond Clark's friends saying that they're just stunned by this. He's a good guy, he's got a girlfriend, he's got a steady job. But you also heard what Randi said there, that police think they've got the killer. How do you explain this?

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Yes. Well, I think there are several reasons. They may not have seen the homicidal part of him. He may have had a more consolidated sense of self around his friends, who he perceived as loving him, admiring him, respecting him. But the second is that killers often wear what we call the mask of sanity. They know that they don't really think and feel like the rest of society, so they learn to look and act normal.

But the third, the biggie, is that the psychopathology that leads to murder is that the killer often feels what we call persecutory distress obsessional paranoia, which is the belief that the victim is threatening their well-being in some way and that the only way they can restore their psychic equilibrium is to wipe out the victim. And how can -- you know, friends and family members, they just hear this as complaining, they don't hear complaining about the victim. They don't hear it as murderous intent.

BROWN: OK. We should be clear, though, that you haven't examined him, obviously.

MARSHALL: That's right.

BROWN: So what we're doing here is very much speculative at this point. But let me bring Carolyn in. And police have said that there's no personal relationship between the two of them. That they believe this is an example of workplace violence. You're an expert in this stuff. Does this sound right?

CAROLYN REINACH WOLF, WORKPLACE SAFETY EXPERT: I think the issue is not workplace violence, campus violence, the broad issue of violence, I think the real issue is how do we examine this, how do we observe this and what do we do to prevent it? And as I travel around the country, I work on campuses, I consult with companies. There are ways that you can train people to pick up on the red flags, on the high-risk behavior.

BROWN: So, what are they? What are those red flags?

WOLF: They're mannerisms. They're things that people say. There are gut feelings that you can get. You can get this feeling that someone, something's off. Someone is not right.

And in addition to observing that, you need to set up a process within the organization to be able to take that information to people who are in authority, who have the ability to act on this. Prevention is really what you want here.

BROWN: Randi, let me bring you in so we can put the relationship in context. Explain to people what we know about the work the two did together in the lab, what their responsibilities were, and how they may have been in contact.

KAYE: Well, we know that Ray Clark wasn't a student. He actually just worked in the lab as a lab technician. And really, Campbell, that's sort of viewed as the low man on the totem pole. He was in charge of maintaining the animals' cages, really taking care of the animals that were being used for research at the Yale lab here, and he reportedly even texted the victim in this case that day to say, to discuss the condition of the cages regarding the mice that she was working with.

Annie Le, on the other hand, was much more than a lab technician. She was there doing research. She was a student. She was doing medical research with her team, working on research having to do with cancer and diabetes. So as far as their working relationship, we're told by the faculty members here that they really didn't have much of a working relationship.

It's unclear, really, how much they had to do with each other or saw each other. We know from the faculty that they certainly passed each other in the hallway, but how much they actually spoke to each other, it's very odd that he was texting her, if that is the case, according to media reports. So still a lot of that in question tonight.

BROWN: A lot of questions still unclear. Randi Kaye, thanks very much, Randi. And to Carolyn and Bethany as well, appreciate your time.

We're going to have much more on this case, we should mention, at the top of the hour with Dr. Phil, who is sitting in for Larry tonight on "LARRY KING LIVE."

Swine flu, scary enough, but pregnant women have something else or someone else to worry about as well. Next, one of the first pregnant volunteers to test the new vaccine, when we come back.


BROWN: New developments tonight on swine flu. The Centers for Disease Control says more than three million doses of the new vaccine should be ready in a little more than one week, but with that a warning. Most of it will be a mist-type nasal spray, not recommended for those most at risk including pregnant women. They're going to have to wait another week or two for shots.

Some pregnant women are already taking part in H1N1 vaccine trials. One of the first to sign up talked to CNN senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen.


ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Amy Wolf is off on a historic medical mission. She's about to become one of the very first pregnant women ever to receive the new H1N1 flu vaccine.

BEN WOLF, VACCINE VOLUNTEER'S HUSBAND: My first gut reaction was, oh, no, what's she up to now? I love you.

COHEN: Amy's husband isn't the only one who has reservations about the experimental vaccine. Eight months into her pregnancy, Amy is not 100 percent sure either. But, still, she makes her way to the study at Vanderbilt University.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Arm pain, tenderness, maybe some fever, maybe feeling achy.

AMY WOLF, SWINE FLU VACCINE VOLUNTEER: Going through all the waivers and all the medical things you have to sign, you almost feel like you're signing your life away a little bit. So I will say that it made me a little nervous, and it's not just me. You know, I have a baby.

COHEN: Amy, who works at Vanderbilt, signs the forms and gets the H1N1 shot. So why did she do it?

WOLF: All of a sudden we're in the middle of babies (INAUDIBLE) and he turns to me and said, you're not just doing this vaccine because you might get paid for it. And I thought, I don't even know if I'm getting paid for it but that, you know, would be a perk.

COHEN: But she says the $300 she received for joining the study isn't why she did it. She wanted to get the shot because she's scared of swine flu. And what really clinched her decision. On Monday, she found out her neighbor's son got H1N1 and now he's in the hospital.

WOLF: It terrified me. I was scared to death. I mean, pregnancy hormones and all, I just started to cry.

COHEN: Amy wants to protect herself and her unborn baby.

(on camera): Amy just got her H1N1 vaccine. Will that vaccine protect her child from H1N1 once he's born?

DR. BUDDY CREECH, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY: What we're wanting to do is vaccinate women early enough in their pregnancy so that they can give that antibody to their unborn children.

COHEN (voice-over): So in the end, Amy got the swine flu vaccine for both of them.

WOLF: I hope it's the right thing to do. I will never forgive myself if it isn't, but I think it's the right thing to do.

COHEN: Elizabeth Cohen, CNN, Nashville, Tennessee.


BROWN: Like a lot of pregnant women, Amy is afraid of swine flu, but still nervous about the vaccine. And joining me from Los Angeles, Dr. Jorge Rodriguez, a board certified internist to help us answer some of these questions.

And, Dr. Rodriguez, the CDC has made pregnant women priority candidates for the vaccine. Why are they much more at risk seemingly for this complications and hospitalization than other women?

DR. JORGE RODRIGUEZ, BOARD CERTIFIED INTERNIST: Well, we can only surmise why pregnant women are more at risk. Some people say that it's because of the abdominal girth of being pregnant, that the lungs can't expand. All we know is that six percent of the people that died from swine flu were women, which is only one percent of the general population. So that's a huge increase in the incidence of pregnant women. So definitely at higher risk.

BROWN: And how can -- I mean, this is a tough question to answer, but how can the government and doctors be sure of its safety and effectiveness? We do know that it is being fast tracked and it's not getting as much testing as other vaccines have in the past.

RODRIGUEZ: You're right, Campbell. And we cannot be 100 percent sure. But this vaccine is being created in the same form as the regular seasonal flu vaccine. And that has been found to be extremely safe for pregnant women for fetuses and for newborn children. So in extrapolating from that, we do assume, with really good reason that this is going to be a very safe vaccine for pregnant women.

BROWN: And so far, we're also assuming that there won't be any adverse effects for the baby down the road, at least from what they've seen so far?

RODRIGUEZ: Absolutely. And again, that's because this is being made in the same way as a seasonal flu vaccine. And actually, the protection of the newborn infant, the best protection they can get, is to get antibodies from the mother who has been vaccinated prior to the birth of the baby.

BROWN: So when, if a pregnant woman is getting the vaccine, when should she do it? You heard the doctor talk about, you know, trying to get it early enough so that the baby would get the antibodies as well.

RODRIGUEZ: Well, the CDC recommends that a pregnant woman get this vaccine as soon as a vaccine is available. That means in any of the three trimesters of birth.

The first trimester -- as a woman gets along in her pregnancy, her immune system becomes weaker. So it is actually better to get this vaccine earlier during the pregnancy than later. So don't wait. If you're going to get this vaccine, get it as soon as it's available.

BROWN: Dr. Jorge Rodriguez, appreciate your time. So many questions about this and so many concerns at this stage.


BROWN: It's helpful to hear your perspective. Appreciate it.

RODRIGUEZ: Thank you very much.

BROWN: It is not even the weekend yet, but "Saturday Night Live" is back and last night they took aim at a member of our own CNN family. See what happens when James Carville meets his match.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE, PLAYING SETH: What do you make of the argument that there are moderate conservatives in the --

BILL HADER, IMPERSONATING JAMES CARVILLE: No, Seth, there aren't no moderates in the tea party. They only seem moderate because they're surrounded by the super crazies. It's like when a midget stands next to a smart car. You ain't tall, midget, you're just clever.



BROWN: If you are a James Carville fan, and even if you aren't, you'll get a kick out of this. Comedian Bill Hader did a dead-on impersonation of the Democratic strategist on NBC's "Weekend Update Thursday." Even the Ragin Cajun himself was mighty impressed. Check out his reaction today on "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Seth Myers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE, PLAYING SETH: So, James, what do you think of these protesters?

BILL HADER, IMPERSONATING JAMES CARVILLE: Do you see these people out there protesting, grown men dressed up as jokers and goblins and Hitlers. I mean, these people are first-class crazy, and I should know, Seth, because I'm as crazy as they come.

I mean, look at me. I see this in the mirror every morning, and I think, yep, that's a good look. Come on, I look a skeletor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, surely they're not all crazy. I mean, what do you make of the argument that there are moderate conservatives --

HADER: Moderates, no, Seth, there ain't no moderates in the tea party. They only seem moderate because they're surrounded by the super crazies. It's like when a midget stands next to a smart car. You ain't tall, midget, you're just clever. (END VIDEO CLIP)


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: He was wearing the same outfit that you were. The same shirt, same jacket, similar tie. Let's take a look and compare outfits. The real -- that's not the real one. There's the fake one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do we know?

BLITZER: There's the real one right there. They look like -- they look --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wolf, I'd like to see -- I'd like to see some I.D. here.


BROWN: It's really rather shocking. That is our show. Have a great weekend.

"LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.