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Campbell Brown
Swine Flu Panic?; Runaway Balloon Hoax?
Aired October 16, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Tonight, these are the questions we want answered. Are we on the verge of a swine flu panic? And should you get vaccinated? How about your kids? The CDC says yes, but they're short on vaccines.
REAR ADMIRAL DR. ANNE SCHUCHAT, SCIENCE AND PUBLIC HEALTH PROGRAM, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION: It's unprecedented for this time of year to have the whole country seeing such high levels of activity.
SANCHEZ: You should know this. Eleven children have died of H1N1 this week.
What happened inside the Arizona sweat lodge where two people died? And they paid to be there. Tonight's newsmaker, a woman who was inside the lodge and will tell you what really happened.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two people aren't breathing, with no pulse.
911 OPERATOR: Not breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Is James Ray, the millionaire self-help guru who led them there, a huckster?
Was the runaway balloon story nothing but a hoax? The 911 tape, the family's media blitz, does it feel like something isn't right here? And what did it cost for you the runaround?
Also, President Obama and President Bush teaming up in Texas for a good cause.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CNN prime time begins now.
In for Campbell Brown, Rick Sanchez.
SANCHEZ: And hello again, everybody. Campbell Brown is off tonight.
And, as usual, we're going to begin with the "Mash-Up," our look at the stories that are making an impact right now and the moments that you may have missed. We're watching it all, so you don't have to.
All right, I know this. You want to know whether your children or yourself should be immunized for H1N1. There's a push right now for people to be vaccinated. And there's important news on this.
Tonight, the CDC is calling H1N1 is called an epidemic. It's official. And their word is epidemic.
So, let's go and say right now that we're going to hit this as hard as we can. And the worst of it is 11 more children have died in the past week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATIE COURIC, HOST, "CBS EVENING NEWS": H1N1 is now widespread in 41 states, four more than last week.
SCHUCHAT: It's unprecedented for this time of year to have the whole country seeing such high levels of activity.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More than 1,000 people were hospitalized and 50 died last week from swine flu, including 11 children.
SCHUCHAT: These are sobering statistics. And, unfortunately, they're likely to increase.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The CDC had predicted 40 million doses of vaccine would be available by the end of October. Today, it predicted only 28 to 330 million doses of vaccine.
SCHUCHAT: We're just all going to have to bear with the situation. We wish we had better ways to produce vaccine perfectly predictably, but this is how influenza vaccine production often goes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: The CDC says it's going to be easier to get the vaccine at the end of this month and the beginning of next month. Should you get vaccinated? How about your kids? We are going to have an expert answer your questions in just a little bit.
I got a number for you, $1.4 trillion. You know what that is? That's the federal deficit. That's how much more we spend over what we take in. Think about that. How irresponsible would you feel if you ran your budget that way? And it gets worse, folks.
Over the next decade, it's supposed to total $9 trillion. Is it related to the recession? Yes. The economic bailout? Yes. And with all of this, Bank of America says it still lost more than $1 billion last quarter.
Another bank that took your bailout money is Goldman Sachs. And they, like other investment banks, are handing out big bonuses. Their CEO says, hey, his guys deserve these bonuses.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) LLOYD BLANKFEIN, CEO, GOLDMAN SACHS: We do our comp as we always did, at the end of the year where we look back and do a compensation that correlates with performance. We regard it as a key element of our success, our ability to recruit, retain and to motivate the best people. And if you ask me what is the -- what is the crux of our success, it's our people. And our people come from that kind of a culture.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right. You should know this. Even though he didn't take a bonus in 2008, he still made $43 million.
Let me tell you about Afghanistan now. Four U.S. troops were killed by a roadside bomb in the south today, while at the same time Secretary of State Hillary Clinton talked exclusively to CNN's Jill Dougherty. And she took some roundhouse swipes at the Bush administration for its policies there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I think that the prior administration was too unrealistic in the way that they treated both our involvement and the number of troops that we put in to achieve our goals and the relationship they built with certain leaders in Afghanistan.
So, we're trying to recalibrate this and I think we're well on the way to do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right, let's keep it going. Tomorrow, Afghanistan's Electoral Commission may announce whether Karzai will indeed face Abdullah Abdullah in a runoff. And you know that's been so far a bit of a mess.
Right now, President Obama is making his way back home, after fulfilling a promise that he made to George H.W. Bush. The two men celebrated some 20 years of the 1,000 Points of Light Institute.
All right, this is all about community service. And it's quite an honor to get one of these. In 1992, after Hurricane Andrew devastated my hometown, I rushed to South Dade and I set up a relief effort there. President Bush was kind enough to reward me with my own Points of Light honor for my work during and after Hurricane Andrew.
And speaking of hurricanes, did you hear this? There's another one out there in the Pacific that could soon threaten Baja. Its name is Hurricane Rick. It's true. Not making this up, folks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Hurricane Rick doesn't seem like it should be anything, if you -- it's like hurricane Bob.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rick, Rick, Rick.
MYERS: It seems a little, I don't know, a name that shouldn't make a big wave. But it could.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rick! Rick! Rick! Rick! Rick! Rick! Rick!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Thanks, guys. Forecasters say Hurricane Rick has gotten a bit stronger and could hit Baja California Peninsula some time next week.
All right, let's get to the story everyone has been talking about. The shorthand for the story is balloon boy. We have been watching it unfold all day and so much of this story isn't really adding up.
Tonight, there are more questions than answers about whether the whole balloon boy story is actually a hoax.
First off, the news today. Because of an interview that the dad, Richard Heene gave to "LARRY KING LIVE" last night, the sheriff wants to re-interview the entire family. And then after a full-court media blitz earlier today, we got a tape, a videotape, that shows the balloon taking off. Now, check it out. Let's watch this together. Listen closely to the dad getting really mad about this as it happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD HEENE, FATHER OF FALCON: Three, two, one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whoa.
R. HEENE: Oh, my God. OK. (INAUDIBLE) tether.
You didn't put the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) tether down.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I did! I did!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Richard Heene yelled something about the tether as his homemade balloon floated into the air. And it's not yet clear if the dad really believed that his 6-year-old son was a passenger. That's an important point.
But listen to what the sheriff there in Colorado said in a news conference today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM ALDERDEN, LARIMER COUNTY, COLORADO, SHERIFF: There was an interview conducted last night, I believe, by Wolf Blitzer on CNN, were asked why he did this.
FALCON HEENE, 6 YEARS OLD: You had said that we did this for a show.
ALDERDEN: Clearly that has raised everybody's level of skepticism.
We believe at this time that it's a real event. They appropriately expressed statements, nonverbal communication, body language and emotions during this event that were entirely consistent with the events that were taking place.
Our understanding is that his first call was to the FAA and that the second call was made to 9 News, with the belief that they had a helicopter that might be able to assist, and that sometime afterwards, they called 911.
DISPATCHER: And you're sure that he's in that?
R. HEENE: Yeah, we looked everywhere. And then my son just said -- he verified it. He said, yes, he went inside just before it went of, because we had it tethered. It wasn't supposed to take off.
If it turns out to be a hoax, we will seek restitution.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: "We did this for a show"? And they called the TV station?
Let's add a footnote. The TLC Network, the ones who brought you "Jon & Kate Plus 8," are telling us tonight that the Heenes approached them months ago pitching a show about their family. There are so many angles so far going on with this story, so many questions that we still need to answer. We're going get to them.
We have got a panel of experts that we're going to be talking to about this in just a little bit.
Also, some videos that we show you on television are truly cringe-worthy, right? Well, this is one of them that you're about to see.
But, trust me, you are going to be OK after you watch this one. All right. Let me take you through it. This is near Melbourne, Australia. A mom is on the platform waiting for a commuter train. She looks away. And the stroller carrying her baby boy rolls down and into the tracks.
Oh, my goodness. Seconds later, the train hits the baby carriage just as it's stopping. The man is seen -- I mean, the mom -- pardon me -- is seen screaming in horror as the baby is dragged about 100 feet.
Somehow -- and I don't know -- look, call it a miracle, right? The baby is unharmed, just some bruises. It appears the baby carriage was caught under the train's grill. And because the child was still strapped in, it didn't come loose. He survived the incident, again, with just bumps and bruises.
What a story.
I'm glad that we can say this today. The whole balloon boy story has comedy written all over it. Thank God. And guess what? Tonight, it's a "Punchline" courtesy of those late-night folks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JON STEWART, HOST, "THE DAILY SHOW WITH JON STEWART": Balloon boy is safe. So, all that heartache he put his parents and the -- really, the entire nation through all for nothing.
(LAUGHTER)
STEWART: Let's get balloon boy!
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST, "JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE": It was kind of funny how it worked out, because first everyone was hoping the kid would land safely. Then, when he wasn't in the balloon, everyone was hoping he would be found alive. And then when they found him in the attic, everyone was hoping he would be beaten within an inch of his life.
(LAUGHTER)
CONAN O'BRIEN, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH CONAN O'BRIEN": Yes, the whole time he was hiding in a box in his attic. Did you hear that? So, folks, now let's kick his ass.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: I think most of us would certainly ground his butt. I do it all the time with my four.
That is tonight's "Mash-Up."
By the way, tonight, you're going to be going to find out what really happened when people who paid for spiritual healing died in a sweat lodge. This is an exclusive interview as I mentioned to you earlier with our newsmaker. This is a woman who was there when this happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have elevated this investigation from an accidental death investigation to a homicide investigation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez, filling in for Campbell Brown.
If there's a metaphysical capital in the United States, it's probably Sedona, Arizona. I mean, take a look at this place. It's so unique, red rocks, caves, mountains, and supposedly something called New Age enlightenment.
Well, last week, 50 or so people went there searching for spiritual and financial wealth, but two of them died instead. And everybody paid thousands to be there to a man who is considered the nation's foremost guru on this kind of stuff. Incredible.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: He's become rich and famous trying to help others, but as of now a frustrated county sheriff investigating two deaths says James Arthur Ray is not helping him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We attempted to interview Mr. Ray at the scene. He refused to talk to us.
TUCHMAN: What happened at the scene in Sedona, Arizona, is still a mystery -- 50 to 60 men and women packed a ceremonial sweat lodge with James Arthur Ray, scorching temperatures, where people paid thousands of dollars to Ray for five days of self-help exercises, including use of the sweat lodge.
But here is what 911 operators heard.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two people aren't breathing, with no pulse.
911 OPERATOR: Not breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
TUCHMAN: Two people dead, 19 hurt, an investigation to see if criminal charges will be filed. And while authorities say neither Ray nor his attorney are talking to them, we know Ray as usual is trying to drum up more business.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: That was CNN's Gary Tuchman, who has been working this story. In fact, he's working it for us tonight.
Now to tonight's newsmaker.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Shawna Bowen is joining us now. She was there that day and helped rescue some of those people who got out.
Shawna, thank so much for being with us.
SHAWNA BOWEN, WITNESSED SWEAT LODGE DEATHS: Thank you for having me.
SANCHEZ: What did you see? What did you experience? What happened?
BOWEN: When I arrived on the scene, it was pretty much as the paramedics arrived. And all the people were out of the sweat lodge at that time, and the ones that were ill were laying down around the sweat lodge, and there were other retreat participants that were tending to them, helping them, covering them with blankets, trying to get them water.
SANCHEZ: Well, did you go inside this sweat lodge? What is it? Describe it for us.
BOWEN: I didn't go into the sweat lodge. I didn't participate personally in the sweat lodge ceremony.
I did look at the sweat lodge. It was a much larger sweat lodge than the ones that I have attended in the nine years that I have been doing sweat lodge.
SANCHEZ: Why would someone not come out? I have a tough time understanding how it's possible that someone can die when all they have to do is walk out the door.
BOWEN: That is something that's been very troubling to me as someone that could have very well been a participant of the sweat lodge. And my heart goes out to all of the people that were involved with this. I'm sure it was very upsetting to them.
I have been questioning my own understanding of where I put people like James Ray, who I look up to as an authority figure, and where would I possibly dismiss my own boundary of self-care and possibly look to another to be making decisions for me.
SANCHEZ: Well, is it -- then, given what you just said, is it his fault or is it their fault? Is it the follower or the followees?
BOWEN: I would have a really tough time answering that question.
My hope is that everyone is going to take a look at this and have integrity and honesty with what happened in there. I -- if someone is going to be leading a sweat lodge, my understanding, given Native American elders that I have learned from, is that they are in a way -- the person running the sweat lodge is that they are taking care of the other people in the sweat lodge, that they're tending to and being of service to those people.
SANCHEZ: How is that supposed to make you wealthy and wise and spiritually connected? I don't get it.
BOWEN: As someone who practiced a holistic approach in my therapy practice, the whole idea is that the physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual are all connected and that when one is in balance, it kind of bleeds out into others.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: And I guess you need to withstand all of this and maybe by withstanding, you will -- before we run out of time, I have got to ask you about James Ray.
BOWEN: Sure. OK.
SANCHEZ: I'm curious, who is he? How do you see him? And given what has happened now, do you think that maybe he's not what he portends to be?
BOWEN: In the past, seeing him speak in front of large audiences and self-help C.D. series that I have engaged in, I like his approach of self-help and also kind of combining a spiritual quantum physics law of attraction piece.
I think he's a very charismatic and dynamic speaker and did very well at leading up until now. I am shaken by what's happened. I am questioning how I looked at James Ray. And my hope is that everyone involved is going to engage with the situation hopefully with integrity and sincerity.
SANCHEZ: So, would you go on another one of these retreats ever again that is led by him?
BOWEN: At this point, probably not, just because I personally am questioning his leadership because of what happened in the sweat lodge.
SANCHEZ: Shawna Bowen, thanks so much for being with us. We appreciate your insight on this story.
BOWEN: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Tonight, we have a story that makes it hard to believe it's 2009. We are going to hear for the very first time from a woman who was turned away on her wedding day because of the color of her fiance's skin and maybe in many ways the color of her skin. It was a justice of the peace who really told her that in America, in America, in 2009.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She said, well, what's the deal here? And I was like, excuse me? And she said, is he black and you're white or vice-versa? And I said, yes, ma'am, he's black and I'm white. And she said, well, we don't do interracial weddings or marriages.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
It's what everybody seems to be talking about. What's the deal with the balloon boy and his dad? Real crisis or elaborate hoax? We are going to have that for you in a minute.
(NEWS BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right. I know you're thinking this, because I hear it in conversations constantly in my neighborhood from my friends, from my wife's girlfriends when they are talking about our kids. Should they vaccinate their kids for swine flu? It's an important question. I am going to drill down on this for you with an expert, so stay right there, because I'm just as curious as you are.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
It is official. The CDC is saying tonight that we're in the middle of a flu epidemic. And when it comes to the H1N1 flu virus, you are probably thinking right now, well, should I get the vaccine? Should my kids get the vaccine? And this is important stuff.
So, let me take you through first some of the information -- 11 more children have died. This is just in the past week -- 86 have died since spring. And now we hear there aren't enough vaccines, not really. Instead of 40 million doses, apparently, they only have 30 million doses.
Dr. Jorge Rodriguez is a board certified internist and my guest right now.
Doctor, how are you?
DR. JORGE RODRIGUEZ, INTERNIST: I'm well, Rick. How are you doing?
SANCHEZ: You got kids?
RODRIGUEZ: No. I have nieces and nephews, though, and lots and lots and lots of young cousins.
SANCHEZ: Would you tell those nieces and nephews that they should take this vaccine?
RODRIGUEZ: Absolutely. And I have.
And I definitely think that this flu vaccine is as safe as any other flu vaccine that's been created. And, Rick, I heard your question before. And there's one sobering statistic that I think all parents should hear. During a regular flu season, which spans from September of one year to May of another year, we have 40 to 50 deaths of children.
Since September 1 to now, we have already had 43 deaths of children from H1N1.
SANCHEZ: I see.
(CROSSTALK) SANCHEZ: All right. Hold on. Let's drill down here. Here are my numbers. You tell me if I'm wrong -- 36,000 people die every year from the flu, right?
RODRIGUEZ: That's correct.
SANCHEZ: That's what we're told.
RODRIGUEZ: Right.
SANCHEZ: If 36,000 people die every year from the flu, why should I get all excited and go out and take an inoculation for something that so far has killed, what, 4,000 people?
RODRIGUEZ: Well, that's correct. But, usually, we don't even see any deaths this early in the year.
And the way that this is going, the rates that this is going, it's expected that probably 90,000 people should die. Really, I think people should go to the CDC Web site.
SANCHEZ: Really?
RODRIGUEZ: They have some amazing graphs, where you have down here what is usually seen as deaths in a year. We're already spiking up at four to five times the level.
SANCHEZ: But I'm interested in what you just said a little while ago. And I want to get back to that...
RODRIGUEZ: Sure.
SANCHEZ: ... because, as much as I like me and you like you, I like my kids more than I like me when it comes to...
RODRIGUEZ: Absolutely. I get it.
SANCHEZ: ... making sure that they're healthy.
And you just said something interesting. You seem to be saying -- again, correct me if I'm wrong -- that children are more susceptible to this particular H1N1 than they would be to other flus out there? Am I reading you right?
RODRIGUEZ: No, that's -- no, that's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying that, first of all, the flu that's occurring this year, 98 percent is H1N1.
SANCHEZ: Right. But...
RODRIGUEZ: Children are more susceptible than adults to the H1N1 flu. There's no doubt about it.
SANCHEZ: So there more susceptible to the H1N1 than they would be to other flus, because I just read you that 36,000 people die every year of the flu. Are most of those people like very old people?
RODRIGUEZ: Yes.
SANCHEZ: So, with this particular virus, kids are getting it more. Is it safe to give those kids this inoculation though? I mean, I worry --
RODRIGUEZ: Rick, Rick, I understand --
SANCHEZ: Look, I'm serious.
RODRIGUEZ: I know you are.
SANCHEZ: I worry that by giving it to them they're going to get sicker.
RODRIGUEZ: It's a serious subject. It's a serious subject. And right now, all the tests that have been done, all the studies that have been done, there has been no increased risk or no increased side effects from this vaccine.
Rick, let me tell you what I would probably do.
SANCHEZ: OK.
RODRIGUEZ: Right now, there's still a delay on this vaccine like you mentioned.
SANCHEZ: Right.
RODRIGUEZ: So even in my office, we haven't been able to get the vaccine. It probably won't be coming out until late October or early November for most people. If this continues at the trends that it's going at now, I think it will be pretty clear over the next couple of weeks to most anybody that this is probably going to be something very serious.
SANCHEZ: OK.
RODRIGUEZ: So I just tell most parents, you know what? Keep a really vigilant eye on what's happening in the statistics because if this continues in the upward trends that it's currently showing, it's going to be pretty that everybody should get vaccinated.
SANCHEZ: All right. And you're saying that we should. And look, I hit you as hard as I possibly could.
RODRIGUEZ: I know.
SANCHEZ: I want to know for the kids' sake, you know.
RODRIGUEZ: I understand. And, Rick, as soon as I get that vaccine, I'm going take it. As soon as my nieces and nephews can get it, I recommend that they take it. But every parent is responsible for their children and they need to make an informed decision.
SANCHEZ: Yes. And we thank you for giving your guidance and expertise.
RODRIGUEZ: You're welcome. You're welcome.
SANCHEZ: All right. We really appreciate it, doc.
RODRIGUEZ: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: OK. We invite you to log on to CNN.com/Campbell, by the way, and there you're going to get the very latest information from the CDC on the H1N1 flu virus. All the information that we've gathered so far and as it comes in, we will continue to share. CNN.com/Campbell.
Another mystery tonight, about balloon boy. Police want to talk to his family again because of an interview that he did on CNN, the father that is, or actually the child as well, the entire family, where he said he did this for the show. There are also some major inconsistencies between the 911 call that the father made and the video of the incident that we've got tonight that you may not have been able to see yet.
So I want to take you through all of the levels of the story and tonight we're going to be talking to the police to try to get to the very bottom of this as well as two other experts. Stay right there. This is going to get good.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: It seems like America wants to know today what's really going on with this balloon incident that we all watched yesterday that we were all so transfixed on yesterday, if nothing else at least just engaged. So let's go through this information.
There's new stuff that's coming today and I want to share it with you. Let's start Renee, if we could, start with the 911 tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, BALLOON BOY 911 CALL)
DISPATCHER: So it was an experimental plane?
MAYUMI HEENE: It's a flying saucer.
DISPATCHER: It's a flying saucer.
HEENE: Yes.
DISPATCHER: And that's gone too, right? Is the flying saucer gone as well?
HEENE: Yes, about 20 minutes or so.
DISPATCHER: They've both been missing for about 20 minutes?
HEENE: Yes.
DISPATCHER: OK. HEENE: Yes. Oh, my God. Oh, my god my son.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right. Now, we've got some home video I want to show you. This is a shot as Richard Heene's contraption first went up. Watch this. In fact, I'm going to shut up and let you listen.
All right. There's a piece here where you actually hear him start asking about the tether. The tether. But he does seem like he's angry. He starts kicking this thing just as it goes up. I think you'll see that there right away.
All right. Justin Smith is with the Larimer, Colorado Sheriff's Department. He's the major out there.
Major, thanks for being with us, sir.
MAJOR JUSTIN SMITH, LARIMER COUNTY, COLORADO SHERIFF'S DEPT.: You bet, Rick.
SANCHEZ: You think there's an inconsistency in these stories? Inconsistency in what the father said when the balloon takes off? I mean, at one point he said that his son set it off. But I just watched him set it off. Are you curious about that?
SMITH: You know, we certainly are curious. What I would point out is this is not unusual in any type of law enforcement investigation. As you point out a very bizarre incident from the beginning with the 911 call described as a spaceship or a saucer that got away from folks. So it was very surprising from the beginning.
But when you get the information, it's very typical in the first hour to two hours especially in a fast moving incident to get things that are inconsistent. You get it from multiple sources. You know, you're running 100 miles an hour.
SANCHEZ: Well, let me --
SMITH: That was not a surprise to us.
SANCHEZ: I want to watch that again. We didn't have that sound a little while ago. Let's listen to this together. There it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD HEENE: Three, two, one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whoa!
HEENE: Oh, my God! OK. You didn't have it tether? You didn't put the (bleep) tether.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I did. I did.
(END VIDEO CLIP) SANCHEZ: I mean, it's almost comical to watch. I'm trying to figure out -- we were told this was something his son did and now we see a video of him doing it. What is he saying about this? How does he explain this?
SMITH: You know, actually, what I would tell you is we heard a few different versions which is once again not unusual for us when you have an incident like that as to what's going on. They come from multiple sources. At one point I had heard that it was the boys who set it off. We heard also different speculation that it may have just been Falcon that cut it loose. But I also heard during the initial hours that it was the family who set the balloon off.
SANCHEZ: Well --
SMITH: So that's the kind of stuff we're trying to sort through at this point. It's slow down for us.
SANCHEZ: But here's the problem. Why are we sorting through this stuff? If something this important happened in my life to my son, man, I would be able to give you chapter and verse of exactly where I was at every moment as it happened. I wouldn't be going well, it may have been this, it may have been him. He may have gone to sleep. I don't know where he is. I just -- and then there's this.
Wolf Blitzer does an interview with the family yesterday, major, and the kid says -- well, let's listen to it together.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD HEENE, FALCON'S FATHER: Did you hear us calling your name at any time?
FALCON HEENE: Huh?
R. HEENE: You did?
MAYUMI HEENE, FALCON'S MOTHER: You did?
R. HEENE: Why didn't you come out?
FALCON HEENE: You guys said that we did this for the show.
R. HEENE: Man.
M. HEENE: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: "We did this for the show."
SMITH: Uh-huh.
SANCHEZ: I got to tell you, man, major, I hear that, and I think everybody in America is listening to that and they're going, this stuff doesn't add up. What are you guys officially going to do about this? All of these questions?
SMITH: What we're doing is -- what we're going to do as the sheriff had mentioned earlier in the day is there's a lot of speculation out there. Our job is not to work on hunches. Our job is to get down to the facts. You never go through an incident and make a police case and find out what happened based on the hunches. So certainly, we have the same concerns that you have. And certainly what came out on Wolf's show last night, I was there, certainly raised our eyebrows as well to try to understand what went on at the same time we're trying to sort through.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
SMITH: You have people saying a lot of things and you're dealing with a 6 year old. Six-year-olds rarely ever go into court because it's hard getting good information. So at this point, we're trying to make sure that what we get is accurate, not just fast.
SANCHEZ: I respect that, and I think most people do. Most people listening to you tonight know that you have to be deliberate in your investigation and you can't just say well that sounds like something.
SMITH: Yes.
SANCHEZ: But we pointed out to our viewers because it's quite obvious, so we just want them to see it and many of them have been able to make their own decisions.
Major, thanks for being with us, sir. We appreciate it.
I want to bring in somebody else now, Sharon Waxman. She's the editor-in-chief of TheWrap.com. Also with me, our senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin.
Thank you, sir, for being with us.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Great to be here and my favorite story.
SANCHEZ: It's an amazing story. There's parts of it that are sad, parts of it that are downright comical when you see the dad kicking that thing just a little while ago. You wonder what's going on. What's your take? What does your gut tell you?
TOOBIN: My gut tells me is that the jiffy pop company has a patent infringement. Because doesn't that thing look just like a jiffy pop?
Look, I think this is not a legal story. I think this is a silly story. Nobody got hurt. Nobody died. We were all -- I mean, what are we going get this little kid to testify against his father?
SANCHEZ: No, no. But you know what? You know, you can't do this. You can't -- nobody likes to get faked out, man. Nobody likes to have somebody come in and fake them out and make them look stupid and every American wasted their entire day watching this and now --
TOOBIN: It's never a waste of time to watch you. I would just like to say that.
SANCHEZ: Well, I thank you for that. But you know how much money was spent on the recovery of this thing? Air Force. The Air Force started putting up helicopters.
TOOBIN: Look, there's a technical term for this family. A little wacky I think we should say. And so, you know, they acted a little wacky.
SANCHEZ: Is that term "science," by the way?
TOOBIN: That's a legal term. But I don't think this is something that needs an extensive criminal investigation.
SANCHEZ: OK.
TOOBIN: This story needs "People" magazine. That should be the ultimate authority in this.
SANCHEZ: You may very well be right. But I tell you, it's something a lot of folks are curious about.
Sharon --
SHARON WAXMAN, THEWRAP.COM: That's what I was curious about, too. What is the police supposed to be investigating? Just whether they wasted the time of the entire nation yesterday that was transfixed on Twitter?
SANCHEZ: Well, actually -- actually, it's quite serious to file a false police report, isn't it? In cases like this? I mean, there could be some -- there could be some serious --
TOOBIN: It is apparently a third-degree misdemeanor to file a false police report. But how are you actually going to prove that they knew that this was liked cooked up? To what end? I don't know.
SANCHEZ: Every once in a while a story comes along, Sharon, that makes Americans want to know just what the truth is.
WAXMAN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: And this is just one of those stories. Americans I think are sitting out there going, you know, if these guys did this and they really just fooled everyone, I'd like to know if they did it. I just kind of want them to come clean. Do you think they ever will?
WAXMAN: Well, I agree but I think there's something also very disturbing about the fact. First of all, it feels to me like a stunt big time. And I personally resent that as somebody who was watching this story all day yesterday thinking about it as I'm running out of the newsroom off to a meeting and calling back to my staff, is the little boy in the balloon? Is he OK? Did they find him? Is he behind the shed after all? I mean, that's not an OK thing to do.
SANCHEZ: Well, is this part of the --
WAXMAN: I want to think about it.
SANCHEZ: Is this part of that whole world of this TV reality TV thing that's going on out there where everybody wants to be followed by a camera and have their story told? Inevitably, is this what this family wanted?
WAXMAN: Yes. But I want to just finish my point which was it's not so much about whether you're wasting the time and the concern or the care of sort of the public out there and our goodwill, it's also the thought of, if this was a stunt, then they're actually making this little boy go on television and lie or, you know, he was sick actually when he was on the morning shows this morning and when Diane Sawyer asked the question, the poor kid kind of lost it, lost his breakfast.
And, you know, that's kind of disturbing to think about what kind of family we're celebrating or placing up on a pedestal. And yes, I do think it does have to do --
TOOBIN: We need role models. We need role models in reality television like Jon and Kate. Jon and Kate should be the role models. Not these people.
SANCHEZ: Sharon, would you put Mr. Toobin in his place, please. Go ahead.
WAXMAN: Jeff, you have a bemused look at our culture and that's completely fine. That's totally fine. I'm deeper in the trenches than you are. I don't know.
SANCHEZ: She wants you to know that she's very upset by someone being dishonest if they were.
TOOBIN: I know. I should be more concerned about this critical problem, but it seems to me like this is all working out as it should.
SANCHEZ: Please take that tongue away from your cheek, please.
Jeff, my thanks to you. Sharon, my thanks to you. I tell you, it's the story everyone is still talking about whether it's silly, funny, or whatever.
All right. Balloon boy story hasn't been well covered but some other news may have fallen by the wayside this week. That is until now.
We've got the uncovered stories of the week. That's coming up in just a bit. Stay with us. It will be equally funny.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. What may be one of the most important stories of the week that went under the radar to many people was, of course, what went on with Joe Arpaio. Joe Arpaio, of course, being the -- well, he is the sheriff of Maricopa County and he was essentially telling the feds this week, you know what? I don't care what you say. I'm going to do immigration raids and now it looking like a standoff like something from Bull Connor and the civil rights era.
That may be one of the stories that went under cover this week. Joining me now, "New York Observer" Steve Kornacki, comedian and talk show host Spike Feresten, and CNN special correspondent Soledad O'Brien.
My thanks to all of you for being with us.
Spike, let me begin with you. What do you think is the story this week that was under covered so to speak? Under covered?
SPIKE FERESTEN, COMEDIAN & TALK SHOW HOST: Well, it's a story I saw in Vermont. They say there's an iPhone app for everyone and everything and apparently that's true. Even bear attacks.
Chris Rowley (ph) of Vermont was hiking in Vermont when she was confronted by a bear. She didn't have any pepper spray to defend herself. All she had was her iPhone which she threw at the bear. It landed at the bear's feet and the bear, no lie, began to play with the iPhone allowing her to make her escape.
SANCHEZ: Who did the bear call?
FERESTEN: Well, here's the interesting part of the story. She went into the Apple people to get a replacement and they asked her what happened to her phone. She said a bear ate it, which was true. They didn't believe her, and she was forced to pay for a replacement.
SANCHEZ: By the way, the answer to my question was supposed to just be boo-boo.
I'm old. Those are the only cartoons I remember.
All right. Let me bring you into this now, Steve. What have you got?
STEVE KORNACKI, COLUMNIST, "NEW YORK OBSERVER": Well, mine is about health care. And this week the latest in the congressional negotiations is that the Senate now has to combine two bills, one from the finance committee and one from the health committee. There's a lot of attention being paid to the Republican from Maine, Olympia Snowe, who actually voted for the finance committee version of the Senate.
SANCHEZ: Is that a surprise?
KORNACKI: It sort of is. We've been following it. You look at her history, you kind of like --
SANCHEZ: Yes, if there was a Republican who was going to do it, it was going to be her. KORNACKI: She'll come around.
SANCHEZ: Right.
KORNACKI: The Democrats are putting an awful lot of emphasis. Harry Reid, for instance, the Senate Democratic leader, is putting an awful lot of emphasis on accommodating Olympia Snowe. Maybe she'll be there at the very end when there's a final vote, maybe she won't. But I think the under covered aspect of the story is Joe Lieberman who is basically, he's technically independent but he caucuses with the Democrats. As one of his first moves after being elected last year, Barack Obama sort of insisted that Joe Lieberman keep his committee chairmanship --
SANCHEZ: And which way is he going?
KORNACKI: He said this week that he won't even vote for the bill that came out of the finance committee in the Senate. And the important thing to know about that bill is that is the most conservative, least ambitious, least expansive. It does the most for the insurance companies, the least for the consumers of any bill in Congress and if that isn't enough for him, it was even enough for Olympia Snowe.
SANCHEZ: I'm just wondering, have you had a chance to look at the campaign contributions for Joe Lieberman and see how much he's got?
KORNACKI: Well, you can say campaign contributions --
SANCHEZ: From health care? From insurance?
KORNACKI: This is a guy who spent the last three year.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
KORNACKI: He's just still with (INAUDIBLE) the Democrats.
SANCHEZ: But there's usually a connection.
KORNACKI: You're right. You're right.
SANCHEZ: Most Americans aren't stupid and they're seeing it both with Republicans and Democrats, and it doesn't matter what party they're in.
Soledad O'Brien, my colleague who we spent so many days talking the last couple of days. What's your under covered story of the week?
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, this story is so interesting because it's so mundane. It's a story of a woman named Heather Ellis. She lives near Missouri. She went to Wal-Mart kind of late night. And what happened was she did that strategy everybody does when they're trying to figure out which is the shortest line. So she picks a line. Cousin picks a line. And as the lines gets closer and closer, she hops over to be in the shortest line. The woman in line says hey, you cut. Eventually, she's arrested and charged with a felony. Her story is that she was pushed in line. The cops say she was belligerent, she was shouting, whatever.
In any case, this is a young woman who's hoping to go to medical school. Now, it's all on hold because she faces felony charges. Her trial is on November 18th. And, you know, it's been three years that she's been fighting this. It's a really interesting story. It's gone completely under covered.
SANCHEZ: What do you think of the story I mentioned a little while ago as well? Joe Arpaio, I mean, you'd think this guy is telling the federal government I don't care what you say, I'm going to do immigration raids and I'm going to do it my way.
I talked to ICE today. They told me they want the cooperation of sheriffs all over the country but they don't want Joe Arpaio's cooperation. They said that to me today on the air at 3:00. What do you make of that, Soledad, now that we're into "Latino in America"?
O'BRIEN: You know, I think, as you well know, he's being investigated already by the feds for all kinds of violations of civil rights. So I think this kind of goes on that long list. And as you know, of course, ICE wants some kind of cooperation but Arpaio has always been the kind of sheriff who's out on the edge with lots of media attention and always doing things, you know, his way to a large degree.
So at some point, there is going to be a showdown. It will be interesting to see which way it swings. You know, we obviously have a little bit on Sheriff Arpaio and Isabel Garcia (ph), a woman who has sort of sworn her life to oppose him in our upcoming documentary.
SANCHEZ: I know. I saw a part of that, and it's good. You know what Arpaio's doing? Politics. Right?
KORNACKI: He's been doing it for ten years, 15 years now.
SANCHEZ: His argument and being the victim against the feds. The big guys are trying to hurt me even though he was fed wins, right? Wins votes. I figured.
Hey guys, thanks. Good stuff. Good conversation. Soledad is back next week, by the way, with "Latino in America" as she just mentioned moments ago. We were doing some work for that in Miami just recently, earlier in the week, as a matter of fact.
Wednesday and Thursday night it's going to be on at 9:00 Eastern right here. Good viewing. Enjoy it. I'll be back in just a bit. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. Imagine that you love someone. Imagine you want to get married to that someone. You're a man, want to be married to a woman or vice versa and you go to a justice of the peace somewhere let's say in Louisiana and you tell them that you want to get married to this person. You want to spend the rest of your life with this person and the justice of the peace turns to you and says, no, I don't like the person you've chosen. It's not the right color. You're black. She's white, or vice versa.
This happened to that woman you're seeing right there. Her name is Beth Humphrey. She's the fiancee. She goes in and the judge actually tells her that. This judge named Keith Bardwell in Louisiana.
There's news on Keith Bardwell tonight. But first, listen to what this fiancee at the time tells to Sean Callebs happened to her.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BETH HUMPHREY, CLAIMS DISCRIMINATION: And she said, well, what's the deal here? And I was, like, excuse me? And she said, is he black and you're white or, you know, vice versa. And I said, yes, ma'am, he's black and I'm white. And she said well, we don't do interracial weddings or marriages.
And so, yes, and so I just kind of was shocked. My jaw was open. And I said, well, do you know someone who would be willing to marry us and she said that I would probably have to go outside of the parish. It's over racism, and we are used to the closet racism but we're not going to tolerate the over racism from an elected official.
SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What about this parish? You haven't lived a long time. Do you think there's racism here or is it isolated?
HUMPHREY: It is not isolated. Racism is definitely not isolated and anybody who is in an interracial relationship or marriage or friendship even they deal with it on a daily basis. You know, it is very real.
CALLEBS: What does this do to your life? I mean, can you have a normal life here in this area of Louisiana?
HUMPHREY: I moved to Louisiana to help change things. You know, we stand for, you know, just for love. Just for tolerance and for acceptance. So it's not going to do any good for us to leave, you know, because there's racist people everywhere.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: So what happens to this justice of the peace who's essentially denied federal law to these people by saying they can't get married because of their color? You'll find out when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Here's the result of that story. Bobby Jindal, the governor of Louisiana, has decided that because of what this judge did, he is now being taken his license away. They say they're revoking his license for this reason.
The FBI next week is going to announce its ten most wanted and they're going to do it on this show.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.
