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Campbell Brown

Officials Investigate Fort Hood Shooting Rampage

Aired November 06, 2009 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Tonight, here are the questions we want answered. Why did an Army major go on a mass killing spree? Tonight, new clues about what drove have him to murder.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His Internet postings, his cell phone usage. They are looking for connections. The real question is one of intent.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) terrorist act?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I couldn't rule that out, but I'm telling you that -- that, right now, the evidence does not suggest that.

BROWN: New surveillance video of Nidal Hasan just hours before the shooting.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He seemed so calm. And, you know, he was never upset with anything whenever I saw him.

BROWN: Eyewitnesses say he shouted God is great in Arabic before he opened fire. How much did religion have to do with it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was praying that it was not a Muslim because of the potential negative -- adding to the negative image that seemed to have...

DR. PHIL MCGRAW, LIFE STRATEGIST: You don't take the guy's last name and impugn the Islamic nation. Are you kidding me?

BROWN: Also, the hero mom who stopped the killer in his tracks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In an exchange of gunfire, she was wounded, but wounded the shooter four times, again, really a pretty amazing and aggressive performance by this police officer.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is your only source for news. CNN prime time begins now. Here's Campbell Brown.

BROWN: Hi, everybody. We have a special hour for you tonight. After a day of late-breaking new developments, we are putting together the very latest clues about the Fort Hood shootings, how it happened, why it happened, and what happens now. And tonight we're going to begin with these new pictures of the suspect in yesterday's rampage at Fort Hood in Texas. Major Nidal Malik Hasan is accused of killing 13 people and wounding another 38.

He was shot and tonight is in critical, but stable, condition. The military won't say if investigators have been able to talk to him to ask the question we all have. Why did this happen?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: New video of the alleged Fort Hood gunman. That's believed to be Major Nidal Malik Hasan in the second row at a homeland security conference here in Washington back in January. Law enforcement sources now tell us that Hasan was armed with a 5.7-millimeter semiautomatic pistol.

We're told the gun known as a -- quote -- "cop killer" was bought legally.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The picture emerging of Hasan is of a man increasingly anguished over his imminent deployment to Afghanistan. Still, they say, there was no warning, when at 1:34 p.m. Hasan dressed in his Army uniform opened fire.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: About 300 soldiers were gathered in the soldier readiness center here awaiting medical checkups in preparation for deployment overseas when witnesses said the suspect allegedly shouted to the crowd God is great in Arabic.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Law enforcement in search of evidence removed a trash dumpsters near the Texas apartment of alleged shooter Major Nidal Hasan. Neighbors say FBI agents took a computer which Hasan frequently used.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Army officials told Congress Hasan received a poor evaluation for his work as a psychiatrist at the Walter Reed Army Hospital. He, himself, was counseled for alcoholism and was told to stop proselytizing for Islam.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: CNN obtained surveillance footage from a convenience store showing Hasan just before the shooting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As this point, we have one suspect, a we said, a lone shooter. That's all indications are a lone shooter, and he's the suspect.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And we're also getting new details tonight from people who were at the scene of the rampage.

Joining me now, Jeannette Juroff, a sergeant in the Army Reserves who works as a civilian contractor at the soldier readiness processing center. And she was there when the shooting broke out. She helped one of the victims.

Jeannette, good evening to you.

JEANNETTE JUROFF, EYEWITNESS: Good evening.

BROWN: Walk us through just what happened from your perspective. Tell us a little bit about what you saw.

Well, I didn't see very much, ma'am, but I was taking my lunch break when they said that there was some shooting going on. And, you know, this is Fort Hood. Shooting goes on. And I wasn't at a target where shooting was go on, and we would all know to take cover.

So, I was a little bit wondering, what's going on? But a quick- thinking -- I think she was a major -- she said, go ahead and call 911. Call 911 now. And we couldn't get through.

Still, I was walking down the hall and wondering what I would tell 911. And just then, a lot of my co-workers come in. And they said just get in the bathroom. We got in the bathroom. And we were there for about a whole minute, but it felt like it took forever.

And it was so quiet, but then we just heard just loud screams and stomps, a lot of chaos going on. And I think, within our imaginations, it is was just too much to stay inside of a little room.

We opened up the door and then we just ran out. And where I was at, there was the exit to the entire building, and then there was a conference center. Now, the sports dome, 75 percent of it is all glass, so you can see everything outside.

And the only thing that wasn't was the conference room. And that's when I got a call from one of my captains because I have a drill this weekend. He called just to talk about administrative things. And since I couldn't get through 911, I just said: Shut up. I need to talk to you. Call 911.

He called 911. He wanted to know what's going on. I said it's -- we're coming under attack. There's somebody shooting at the SRP. And as I'm talking to him, I'm seeing a soldier who is down, and there's two soldiers holding his legs up. And I think there was a medic. And she was helping him out. And I think there was other people.

I really can't remember exactly how everything happened. But I was a little nervous, but I approached the soldier. And I seen that they were doing everything they could to him, but he was still in shock. And his lips were really white. He was a little pasty. And he just looked really soft.

So I went in there and said, hey, kid, what you doing? And then, you know, you feel kind of dumb asking what you doing. So, then, I said, well, so what are you going to do this weekend? And he said, well, I'm going to shoot pool.

And then I said -- I said, yes, you know -- somebody said, are you any good at? And he said, well, yes, I shoot in a league. So, I said, do you ever pretend that you don't know what you're doing, go over there and hustle somebody for it? And he's like, yes, sometimes.

And then we started engaging in a conversation, and little by little he started to look good.

BROWN: So...

JUROFF: And we were there for a while, and then it seemed like it was going to become a staging area, because a lot more soldiers started coming in there at about that time.

So, Jeannette...

JUROFF: Go ahead.

BROWN: ... you don't really have any medical training, do you? You were trying to engage him to keep him alert while this was happening?

JUROFF: Right.

He was obviously in shock. And, no, I guess every soldier has a combat medic class as a CLS. And -- but, you know, I didn't take it for a long time, but you always hear it, and it's part of your annual training. It's something you never want to use. But it gets drilled into you.

And sometimes you sit there as a soldier just kind of rolling your head back and just, you know, OK, you know, this is about the umpteenth time that we're doing this.

BROWN: Right.

JUROFF: But there was a medic there, and she was so high-speed. She was asking for shirts, she was asking for belts. And soldiers were there, and they were just going on, just going on automatic. And they were just completely doing everything that they were told to do. There was nobody hesitating. Every soldier was helping everybody out, every civilian that worked there.

We have a Mr. Lacount (ph) and also Mr. Adams (ph), and they were there just both helping out. Everybody who could help out, helped out. There was no hesitation on anybody's part.

BROWN: Jeannette?

JUROFF: Yes, ma'am?

BROWN: No, let me just share with you. I know the father of the soldier George Stratton (ph) was on scene. And he did tell us that that soldier you're talking about, the -- his 18-year-old son, is doing well. And I know that's got to make you feel pretty relieved.

JUROFF: Oh, really relieved. I had -- I had talked to him, and then I asked him about his family. He said he had three brothers and his dad. And he really wanted to call his father. And then I said, listen, I can't call your dad right now, but you're going to be fine, and you can call him yourself. It's just unfair to call your dad right now, OK, kid?

And he said, all right. All right.

And so, we just kept on distracting him so that he could think about other things and be happy. But he really wanted to call home.

BROWN: Yes.

JUROFF: And I worried this morning. I worried this morning. I wanted to find out if I could go and visit or if I can call somebody. But everything was tied up, so I'm so glad that you tell me that.

BROWN: He was lucky to have you there.

Give us a sense, Jeannette, just how many other victims did you see, what was going on around you and the condition they were in as this was happening.

JUROFF: Well, there was about -- once we were outside, where the ambulances were, we got to see all the other victims.

And I think I seen six victims out over there. There was a young female. She just looked about 18 or 19 years old, just beautiful little face. It was just covered in blood. And she was sitting up there like a trouper, holding her compress against her head and stained everywhere with blood.

And there was another lady, she was sitting right next to me, another soldier. I didn't know where she was hit, I couldn't tell. But I knew that she was really, really, really pale. And I would look over at George. And every time I looked at him, he just looked like he was getting worse.

So, then, I couldn't focus on too much about what was going on without having to engage him, keep having him conversate with me. There was another soldier there, and I think he was an awesome warrior.

He was standing there, and he was shot multiple times in different areas, whether it was his shoulder, up on his stomach area, and I believe it was his leg. And he was nearly naked. He didn't have a shirt on.

BROWN: Right.

JUROFF: His ACU pants were all torn up. And he was even holding a pressure over on his own wounds.

BROWN: Wow.

JUROFF: And he was just sitting there. And they asked him to raise his leg. He raised his leg. They even wanted him to hold his arm up. He did that. And he was sitting there. He was keeping his focus. He was staying calm. And everybody else was doing the same. It was really awesome.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Jeannette, I know you also -- I know you're not sure, but you say you think at one point that you may have seen the shooter as well as he was being taken away.

JUROFF: Well, I'm not sure about that.

I know that there was a man on a gurney that was coming out. And as he was coming out, there was -- people were saying, oh, that's him, and there he is. And I don't know who that was. I'm not sure. So, I cannot tell you that, ma'am.

BROWN: So, tell me your reaction to what you're hearing, that this guy, the alleged shooter, anyway, was an Army major, a psychiatrist, you know, that his job was to help other soldiers.

JUROFF: Right.

Well, you know, my reaction's the same as everybody else in America. What can you say? Some people just -- they lose it. I don't know if he lost it or what. But I'm pretty sure that there's other professionals there that are better or maybe when he recovers, hopefully he can then answer that, ma'am.

But we are all saddened by this incident here, and I think we're all forever a little changed, but, nonetheless, will not continue with any fear, ma'am.

BROWN: Jeannette, what about today? How are people doing down there? How are people coping?

JUROFF: Well, we're calling each other a lot, texting a lot, talking to each other, and, you know, calming each other down a little bit. And, you know, this is a freak accident. This is not what happens every weekend here at Fort Hood. It's not something that even happens, you know, ever, I don't think.

BROWN: No, I know.

JUROFF: So all we can do is just be there for each other and call.

But there was a lot of heroic soldiers out there and a lot of old retired sergeant majors out there calling shots. And everybody was listening. And I was very proud to be part of the SRP there and a member of this military community, ma'am.

BROWN: Well, I know that a lot of people were grateful that you were there for them yesterday, too.

Jeannette Juroff, we really appreciate you coming on and talking to us tonight. Hang in there.

JUROFF: Thank you, ma'am. BROWN: And, tonight, the big question remains: Why did he do it? We have some new clues from his neighbors who describe Hasan's bizarre behavior in the hours before the killings -- that coming up next.

And as we go to break, a look at one of today's memorials at Fort Hood. This is a moment of silence exactly 24 hours after the shooting started.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Tonight, the accused Fort Hood gunman, Nidal Hasan, is in intensive care after being airlifted earlier today to an Army hospital in San Antonio.

Investigators are standing by waiting to interrogate him and get the answer to the question everybody wants to know: Why did he do it?

Well, now we are learning some new details, some new clues from his neighbors in Texas about what he did in the final hours before the attack.

And Ted Rowlands has that part of the story for us right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As investigators try to piece together why Nidal Hasan allegedly went on a killing spree, his neighbors are replaying the events leading up to the shooting.

Patricia Villa says it's horrifying now, but she didn't think anything of it when Nidal gave her his furniture, telling her he was going overseas.

PATRICIA VILLA, NEIGHBOR OF HASAN: When he gave me all those things, I said, wow, he should be real, like, into God.

ROWLANDS: Something that now does stick out, Hasan gave several other neighbors a copy of the Koran. Lenna Brown says when she got her book, he said something that she will never forget.

LENNA BROWN, NEIGHBOR OF HASAN: "We do things to please God. It's a challenge."

ROWLANDS: Investigators pored over Hasan's apartment for hours after the rampage. Then, Friday morning they searched and hauled away a dumpster. They also spent more than four hours interviewing this man. Willie Bell lives next door to Hasan. He allowed Hasan to use his computer from time to time. Why an Army major would need to use a neighbor's laptop is unclear. Bell says investigators took his computer.

WILLIE BELL, NEIGHBOR OF HASAN: I didn't think he was doing nothing bad. After I heard all that (INAUDIBLE) I hope those people don't think I'm involved or something like that. ROWLANDS: Hasan spent the bulk of his military career in Virginia as a psychiatrist at Walter Reed Medical Center. Friends there say he seemed happy, despite hearing he had trouble on the job.

DR. ASIF QADRI, MUSLIM COMMUNITY CENTER: I got the impression he was very happy what he was doing, you know. Then I hear that he had some problems there. I don't know what kind of problems he had.

ROWLANDS: In July, when Hasan rented this apartment near Fort Hood, he paid six months' rent up front, according to the manager, and insisted that nobody enter his apartment unless he was home. The only time he had a visitor, according to the manager, was the day before the shooting. It was a man neighbors say investigators have asked them about.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They went upstairs. I guess they were up there about five minutes. Then they came back downstairs and left. But that's the first time I ever seen anybody go into his apartment.

ROWLANDS: After moving to Texas, Hasan started worshipping at this mosque in Killeen, where others described him as quiet and unassuming. A former soldier who worships there broke down talking about the massacre.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a sad day. It's a sad...

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROWLANDS: And, Campbell, as you can imagine, a sad day everywhere in this area of Killeen, and especially at this apartment complex. These people have a lot of different feelings, because they were so close to this man.

In fact, they encountered this man just hours before he went on that rampage. He sought them out to give them those Koran -- to give them those Korans and those other items, so a lot of different emotions here. There's a candlelight vigil in town here as well. And that caps off a day of mourning throughout this area of Texas.

BROWN: And, Ted, I understand you have some new information about the guns that he used to share with us. What do you know?

ROWLANDS: Two guns that were brought in by Hasan, and according to investigators -- or according to sources close to the investigation, one of them was a semiautomatic, an FN-5.7 millimeter. That one was purchased, according to a source, legally in town here in the month of August.

The other gun, a .357 revolver, they are trying to track down its origin.

BROWN: All right, Ted Rowlands for us tonight -- Ted, thanks very much.

A short time ago, Hasan's family did release a statement. Part of it says -- quote -- "We are mortified with what has unfolded. And there is no justification whatsoever for what happened. We are all asking why this happened, and the answer is that we simply do not know. We cannot explain, nor do we excuse what happened yesterday" -- end quote.

It is the same puzzle the FBI investigators are now trying to solve.

And we want to bring in Tom Kenniff, who served as both a prosecutor and defense attorney in the Army's Judge Advocate General's Corps, or JAG, and Charles Swift, an attorney and also a former Navy JAG officer.

Welcome to both of you.

Charles, let me start with you.

Based on what we know so far, he either allegedly snapped because an enormous amount of stress, or he was driven, as some people have speculated, by Islamic fundamentalism, or maybe a little bit of both.

Given what we know here -- and I recognize that I'm asking you to speculate somewhat -- what is your take?

CHARLES SWIFT, FORMER MILITARY DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think my take is the same as everyone, that this is an act of a madman. And whether he, in his mind, thought that there were some Islamic reason or -- behind it doesn't make him per se part of a terrorist organization.

All of this has been about a single person who basically became mentally deranged.

BROWN: At least from based on what we know so far.

Do you have the same view of this, Tom?

TOM KENNIFF, FORMER ARMY ATTORNEY: Yes.

I mean, look, you know, Campbell, my view is anyone who would commit murder, let alone mass murder, is mentally deranged. What their motivation, be it Islamic fundamentalism or just an absolute mental breakdown, is speculation at this point.

But, you know, I somewhat take offense to a lot of what's been kind of portrayed in the media over the last 24 hours, since this horrific story broke, that, you know, the first instinct is, well, he must have been suffering from PTSD.

Look, he hadn't been deployed yet. He was a high-ranking military officer. He was a medical doctor. He's someone who occupied a position of prestige both within the military and within society. There has been nothing so far to suggest that he suffered any sort of life experiences that would have caused him to suffer from PTSD and to engage in such a horrific action. There's nothing.

BROWN: But he -- and I'm just going to play devil's advocate, because what you have heard people say is that this is, given his profession as a psychiatrist, a person who was hearing horror story after horror story after horror story from these guys who had experienced the horror of war.

KENNIFF: Sure. But that's a great point, first of all, that he's a medical professional, he's a psychiatrist.

BROWN: He is trained to hear that.

KENNIFF: They're trained in how to deal with this.

Secondly, those people, all those young men and women who surely had been through terrible situations, often multiple deployments, had experienced these things firsthand, and it didn't lead them to this sort of action.

BROWN: Not by any means.

Charles, according to some reports, I mean, there should have been a lot of red flags here. I think he got a poor performance review. He spoke openly against the wars, about not wanting to be deployed. How does a guy like this rise through the ranks?

SWIFT: Well, he probably had risen through the ranks before any of that happened. The poor performance report you said was very recent. All of this is sort of very -- is recent.

And I think it falls into the idea that he is a psychiatrist, and, therefore, everyone assumes that he's OK. It's a bad attitude problem, but not a mental health breakdown. And because of his position, and because of his rank, people don't ask the hard questions they might have asked of him if he were significantly more junior.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Just to interrupt -- or I will ask you, Tom, isn't there a certain amount of psychological screening that you have to go through, or no?

KENNIFF: No, not as much as you would think.

For instance, listen, look, I spent a good amount of time in the military, six years, some -- a good deal of it on active duty. I never went through any sort of formal psychological screening. You go through a criminal background check. They will check your credit report. You have to apply for security clearances. And maybe when I got back from Iraq, I might have been asked, hey, how you doing? Are you feeling OK? Do you have any issues?

But I can't recall one time in my military career where I was forced to sit down with a psychologist or a psychiatrist and be evaluated per se.

BROWN: And, Charles, no security checks I guess would pick up on any of these red flags or anything like this if he were going -- being put through any sort of background check or anything? SWIFT: They might. But that would suppose that the person was going for a very high level of security clearance...

BROWN: Right.

SWIFT: ... such as a top-secret type of clearance, where there's a more in-depth interview, and they look at those particular factors. Doctors don't have that kind of a clearance.

BROWN: Right.

SWIFT: So, he's not going toe go through them. Again, there's simply the assumption he's a doctor; therefore, he can't be sick.

BROWN: All right, well, Charles Swift and Tom Kenniff, I know, obviously, we're still learning a lot of information on this front. Thanks to both of you. Appreciate you sharing your knowledge on this.

KENNIFF: Thanks for having us.

BROWN: Next, we're going to hear from a man who saved the life of the hero cop who stopped the gunman in his tracks. This is a pretty incredible firsthand account when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Tonight, we are hearing for the first time a powerful eyewitness account of the shooting at Fort Hood.

And joining us right now is Specialist Francisco De La Serna, a medic who treated the wounded, including the hero police woman who shot the suspect stopping the rampage. Apparently, he also treated the suspect here. And he is going to talk to us a little bit about what he saw.

Welcome to you.

Describe for us what happened from your perspective when you first arrived.

SPC. FRANCISCO DE LA SERNA, U.S. ARMY: When the first gunshots started, you know, it was complete chaos. Just everyone outside the building started scattering. They just all ran behind anything that would stop a bullet, cars, trash cans, trees, anything.

No one really knew what was going on. No one knew how many shooters there were, who was shooting, or who was getting shot at. So, it was all very confusing for the first few minutes.

BROWN: And then you saw the shooter, is that correct, coming out of a of a building?

DE LA SERNA: Yes, ma'am. He -- he was still in the building shooting while there were victims that were running out of the building. And it wasn't until a few minutes later, after quite a few of the victims had gotten out of the building, that he came out one of the side entrances and continued shooting.

BROWN: And I read here you described the shooter as looking very focused. Was he targeting specific people, as far as you could tell?

DE LA SERNA: I couldn't tell, you know, exactly if he was looking for somebody, because he was really just shooting at anybody he saw, from what I saw when he was shooting outside.

BROWN: And there were reports earlier he was yelling, Allahu akbar, God is great in Arabic. Did you hear him say anything?

DE LA SERNA: I never heard him say anything, ma'am.

BROWN: And you treated -- first, let's talk about officer Kim Munley, who is being called a hero for ending this killing spree. Tell us how you came about her, how she's doing, what you were able to do to help her.

DE LA SERNA: Well, when I first came up on her, she was being helped by a few people.

They already had, you know, the wound assessed. They knew she had gotten shot in the upper thigh. They knew she had arterial bleeding. And they were trying to make, like, a makeshift tourniquet out of a belt. But it wasn't controlling the bleeding.

So, I took my knife out. I cut her pants open, took out a tourniquet, and combat application tourniquet, put it around her thigh and tying it down until the bleeding stopped. But she had already lost a lot of blood. She was going -- she was fading in and out of consciousness. And we were trying to do everything to keep her awake.

I gave an I.V. kit to one of the other emergency personnel that was there, and they started an I.V.

BROWN: And what about -- I guess when you were treating her, did she realize that it was her bullets that had hit the alleged shooter here? Did she have any sense for that at all?

DE LA SERNA: I'm not sure, ma'am. She didn't -- I don't think she was conscious enough to really say anything to us.

BROWN: And then, Hasan, you also treated him, apparently?

DE LA SERNA: Yes, ma'am.

BROWN: What can you tell us about that?

DE LA SERNA: I couldn't get him to answer my questions. I just asked him, how are you doing? Are you hurt anywhere else? How is your breathing? You know, basic questions like that, and I couldn't get him to answer.

He looked very calm, really pale, you know, steady breathing, but it didn't really look like anything was fazing him, ma'am.

BROWN: And, as you were treating him, did you know that -- that he was the alleged shooter here?

DE LA SERNA: Yes, ma'am.

BROWN: You did. And other people around, it was very clear?

DE LA SERNA: Yes, ma'am.

BROWN: Just talk to me a little bit about how folks down there are doing. I mean, just going -- I know you guys are trained for this kind of thing, but it is certainly not something you expect to have happen there, at home, at Fort Hood, which is supposed to be your place of safety. I mean, are people just stunned? Are they coping OK?

DE LA SERNA: Yes. Everyone is very, you know, shocked. No one expects this kind of thing to happen back home. You have -- the whole time you're deployed in Iraq, you're ready for it, you train for it. You expect it to happen. But when you come back here and something like this happens, it's just shocking.

Nobody -- nobody really knows what, you know, what to say or exactly what went on yesterday. It's hard to say, you know, why he did it or, you know, how everyone feels about it. But I just know everyone feels pretty bad about losing so many fellow service members.

BROWN: I know this is going to be a real tough time ahead for your community there. Specialist Delaserna, thank you so much for coming on and talking to us. And a lot of people are grateful that you were there yesterday.

DE LA SERNA: You're welcome.

BROWN: When we come back, Muslims in our military bracing now for a backlash because of their religion. You're going to hear from some of them right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Fort Hood shooting suspect Nidal Hasan is a follower of Islam. Now, whether or not that had something to do with the shooting, we don't know, obviously. There's a lot of speculation about that, and it's something we want to discuss.

We've got a couple of people with us tonight. Omar Ashmawy, he's a former military attorney, also a follower of Islam. And then back with me as well is former Army JAG Officer Tom Kenniff.

Welcome back to both of you.

Omar, let me start with you on this. And just give me your reaction when you first heard that the alleged shooter here was Muslim. OMAR ASHMAWY, FMR. MILITARY ATTORNEY: Well, I mean, my first reaction as a former active duty military member was just horror and shock like everybody else. The fact that he was Muslim really, to be honest, didn't play a role in that reaction. What played a role -- what I was scared of was that people would assume that he did it because he was Muslim, and I don't believe that's the case.

I mean, this man was clearly mentally ill, and regardless of his religion, I think a man who felt this way and is willing to do those things, would have done it regardless of his belief.

BROWN: But with that said, I mean, you know how many people are going to react or are already reacting to this. Are you worried about a backlash?

ASHMAWY: Absolutely. I think there's a lot of people who are scared, but they're scared for the wrong reasons. They're scared because they believe that Islam is somehow the reason for this man's activity. The reason why this man did this is because he was mentally ill.

I mean, he -- nobody does an act like this. Nobody kills people because -- because of their religion. They kill people because -- because they're crazy, because they're not well in their mind and they misinterpret the world around them. And that may include their religion, but it comes from a misguided understanding of what's going on.

BROWN: Tom, you said that obsessive political correctness is a problem in the military. What do you mean by that? That we're not talking about this honestly or openly enough?

TOM KENNIFF, FMR. ARMY PROSECUTOR/DEFENSE ATTY.: Right. And honest and open dialogue. I mean, obsessive political correctness is a problem throughout our society.

I mean, look, I was on "LARRY KING" last night and I mentioned that when the facts came out about this case that we knew we had some act of terror. I mean, in my opinion slaughtering innocent soldiers is an act of terror on some level. And we had information that this individual had possibly posted on blog sites speaking admiringly of suicide bombers and defending them and so forth.

And then we had the additional information that he followed the Islamic faith or some version of it, because let me say right now, that, you know, true Muslims do not believe in this sort of stuff, as Omar just said. But I think at that point it's fair to ask the question, was this individual possibly following some twisted version of the Islamic faith? And I believe that's a fair question, opening a dialogue about.

BROWN: Do you think -- do you agree, Omar? I mean, shouldn't that at least be something that investigators look at?

ASHMAWY: I don't see the value in the question whether or not he followed some twisted version of Islam. The question is, you know, did he commit this act? I mean, I think that seems pretty obvious. And the answer to the question, why, that everyone wants to know is that he was mentally ill.

I don't believe that Islam or -- or, you know, the religion or what it means to be Muslim had anything to do with that, and I think that's the point to be made. That, yes, he may have had a misunderstanding of what it means to be Muslim but that misunderstanding came from a mental illness, and that's the root cause of his violence.

BROWN: Well, but except that there, by your definition there are a lot of people in other parts of the world, mostly, who would have a misunderstanding of what it means to be Muslim.

ASHMAWY: Absolutely.

BROWN: And a large number. So, are they all mentally ill is that what you're saying?

ASHMAWY: I think anybody who is willing to kill another because of what they think God wants them to do is mentally ill.

BROWN: So --

ASNMAWY: And I think regardless of their religion.

BROWN: I mean, it feels like we're talking semantics.

KENNIFF: We're talking semantics, but let me just answer his point, because this is why I think it's important. If we have those facts at hand, knowing that he's been on radical Web sites. Knowing that he has committed an act of terror and knowing that, perhaps, he's following a radical version of Islam. What if this was part of a series of coordinated attacks? What if there was going to be a secondary hit on -- on Fort Hood or somewhere else?

Would we not want our investigators, the FBI, the feds, and so forth, canvassing the area to determine, hey, was this an act of terror by Islamic fundamentalists, and should we at least look into that perhaps to protect additional innocent lives?

BROWN: I think without question they are looking into that.

Omar, do you agree with that point? Is that not a fair, you know, line of pursuit for this investigation?

ASHMAWY: I think all -- I think all facts of this case need to be investigated. But I'm concerned that, you know, as a Muslim, if this man were carrying a bible and had done the same thing, nobody would have said he did it because he was Christian. They all would have said he did it because he was crazy. And I feel like that people are very quick to assume that somebody's committing an act of violence when they're Muslim because they are Muslim.

BROWN: And that's just -- isn't that though just a reality of the post-9/11 world? ASHMAWY: But it doesn't have to be the reality, Campbell. The reality is that Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance. And, yes, there are people all over the world with warped views of that faith. But we need to understand it as a country, as a military, you know, and as citizens that that is a warped view.

BROWN: Omar, I agree you're right, but I also think you have big PR campaign on your hands.

ASHMAWY: Yes.

BROWN: It's a really interesting discussion and an important one to be having right now. I appreciate both of you coming on and talking about it.

KENNIFF: Thank you so much.

BROWN: When we come back, we're going to talk with the sister of one of the soldiers killed in yesterday's attack. Really a heartbreaking story. She's going to share what she each wants us all to know and remember about her brother when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Tonight, the families of some of the victims of the Fort Hood shootings are speaking out, and for many, the hardest thing to understand is how a soldier, one of their own, could turn against his comrades.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll tell you candidly, this was a kick in the gut, not only for the Fort Hood community, but also for our entire Army.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why did they do this? I mean -- I mean, they're supposed to be soldiers like they're brothers, there's a bond.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In a community where almost everyone is connected to the military in one way or another --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Eighty percent of my church goes to -- works on Fort Hood so, you know, you're trying to think of all their names and their last names.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And just a few moments ago, I spoke on the phone with Leila Hunt Willingham. Her younger brother, Specialist Jason Dean Hunt, was killed in the shootings.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Leila, thank you so much for joining us tonight. I can't imagine how difficult the last 24 hours have been for you. Talk to me about how you're doing, how your family is doing. LEILA HUNT WILLINGHAM, SISTER OF SPC. HUNT (via telephone): I'm with my mother in Frederick, and we have a lot of support. We have a lot of friends coming to visit, bringing us things, calling and texting and e-mailing. And I have a lot of people around us. It's just -- we're just really beyond sick and just upset, and we're going to -- we'll be all right. We're going to make it through, because we have a lot of people around us.

BROWN: And you guys are probably still very much in shock. Tell me how you first heard the news about the shooting at Fort Hood.

WILLINGHAM: We must have called 30 different numbers, trying to reach people. Couldn't get any information. And then, you know, I told my mom, and we were trying to look together. And 8 1/2 hours later, one of the many phone calls I had made to her, I was on the phone at midnight, when two men in uniform came to her door. And told us the news, told her the news while I was on the phone with her.

BROWN: Tell me a little bit about Jason. He was 22 years old. I know he was recently married. How -- how would he want to be remembered?

WILLINGHAM: Jason, you know, people who know him, who knew him, would probably describe him as just a quiet kid, especially in high school. But I think the Army really brought out a lot of his personality and his confidence. He was just so at ease, and he was very proud to be in the Army. Mostly to be with his -- with his brothers and his soldiers, that he quoted to me. I mean, he told me he would jump in front of a bullet for a fellow soldier.

So, I just know that he would, you know, he would want to be remembered as a hero or, you know, on TV or in magazines, but he would just want to be remembered as someone who would -- who would jump in front of a bullet for someone else.

BROWN: And he was on his way back to Iraq, wasn't he?

WILLINGHAM: He had the choice to re-enlist, and he re-enlisted in Iraq, in a war he chose to re-enlist in the Army for six years. While he was in Iraq, he even -- he took a video of his re-enlistment ceremony in the middle of the desert, and when he came home, he showed it to us. He was so proud. He said he wanted to make a career out of the Army, and he was so proud.

BROWN: Well, Leila, there are so many people thinking about you and your brother and praying for you and your family. Thank you so much for coming on and telling us a little bit about him. Again, we are so sorry for your loss.

WILLINGHAM: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And tonight, let's take a look. This is a candlelight vigil to remember all the victims at Fort Hood happening tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We have some new information for you. We are expecting a press conference from Fort Hood to begin shortly. We are going to bring that to you live as soon as it happens. We'll have more information for you hopefully in just a few moments.

The community there facing a long and difficult recovery. We do want to talk about that right now with Lieutenant General Russel Honore who is a CNN contributor and Bridget Cantrell, an expert on post traumatic stress disorder.

Welcome to both of you. Dr. Cantrell, let me start with you here. Some of the soldiers who survived yesterday's shooting, they were already suffering from PTSD, and they're comparing yesterday to the way they felt in Iraq. How difficult will the psychological recovery be here?

BRIDGET CANTRELL, PTSD EXPERT: That is a great impact on them. They come home and finally think that they're in their sanctuary on safe turf and that they're with their comrades and they made it home successfully to their families, and then something like this happens. And it is very, very difficult for them to comprehend and deal with. So, we're going to see some backlash as a result of this, this is for sure.

BROWN: And in a way, could it be even harder to deal with because of the fact that it happened in a place that was home, where they did feel safe?

CANTRELL: Absolutely. This was unexpected. It would be equated to an ambush in their sanctuary, in their safe -- safe area, and it can be very, very difficult for them to deal with this. And these kind of adjustments are going to be trickling back down into their family members as well.

So, the whole, entire community is feeling unsafe right now, and really undermined by this, and so it's going to take some time to move into a sense of feeling safe again and putting back together their sense of community and that type of thing.

BROWN: Right. General Honore, this community has already been under an enormous amount of strain with repeated deployments. Fort Hood has the most suicides since the Iraq war began. Is this a community, in your view, especially right now, that is almost at a breaking point?

LIEUTENANT GENERAL RUSSEL HONORE, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I wouldn't put it that way. It is in -- stressed. It's troubled by those suicides, Campbell, and the other issues associated with that. Yesterday highlights a turning point where we had a soldier who turned on his fellow soldiers and killed them. But this is a fourth generation platform that is well resourced.

That being said, this army has been used a lot in the last eight years. And Fort Hood, being the great place it is to train and to take care of families, has done its share, plus, in providing soldiers and equally have lost many soldiers on the battlefield. That being said, they serve with distinction today in Iraq and Afghanistan.

BROWN: Dr. Cantrell, let me go back to you just for a final thought on this. I mean, what needs to happen here? You know, we've heard grief counselors are going to be available. But is that it? Is that enough?

CANTRELL: It's one aspect of the whole thing. And the Army and the military, by the makeup of them, they hold things in. And they're starting to start -- they're starting to process information and starting to acknowledge that there is combat operational stress and post traumatic stress issues associated with some of these other things that are going on, like the high suicide rates and things like that.

But it's really up to the entire community, not just the military community, but the existing community around the outside, to come together and -- and be there and be present for these people. And it can't just be on the shoulders of the mental health community or the chaplains or whatnot. It has to be an entire, dedicated force of people that they live around that they are -- they know that they're in a safe environment, that people truly care...

BROWN: Right.

CANTRELL: ... and they're concerned about the safety of these people.

BROWN: All right, Dr. Cantrell, and General Honore, to both of you, appreciate your time tonight. Thanks so much.

As we mentioned before, we are standing by for a news briefing at Fort Hood. Officials will update us on the conditions of the wounded. And whatever new information they have, we're standing by, and we will bring you that live as soon as it happens.

Also, the police officer and mom who shot the suspect and stopped the rampage. More on her after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: One of the heroes of the Fort Hood shootings is the police officer who shot the gunman, and Ed Lavandera has her amazing story right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It took just three minutes for civilian police officer Kimberly Munley and her partner to arrive on the terrifying scene, as Army Major Nidal Malik Hasan allegedly unleashed dozens of shots on defenseless soldiers. Munley shot Hasan four times, ending the deadly attack.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was one of the first to arrive on scene and to take the suspect under fire. So, she probably saved a lot of lives with her actions. LAVANDERA: But Munley did not escape unharmed. Wounded by gunfire herself, she was rushed into surgery and is now in stable condition and recovering. Family members from around the country are rushing to be with her.

The neighborhood where Munley lives sits mostly quiet, because so many of its residents are deployed overseas, but here, no one is surprised that this tough woman acted the way she did in a moment of crisis.

SGT. 1ST CLASS WILLIAM BARBROW, U.S. ARMY: I know we sleep a lot safer knowing she's on the block just because she is a police officer. And if anything does break out, we can go knock on her door and say, hey, get him.

LAVANDERA: Neighbors tell the story of burglars who tried to break into her home a year ago. She ran them off, and then patrolled the neighborhood to make sure no one else was in danger. Erin Houston says that's one of the reasons she looks up to her.

ERIN HOUSTON, KIMBERLY MUNLEY'S NEIGHBOR: I just felt more protected having her in the neighborhood. You know, knowing that she was, you know, that strong of a woman, and a lot of us on this neighborhood, we're single military moms, you know, alone. Our husbands are deployed, so having her in neighborhood, you know, really made us feel more safe.

LAVANDERA: Munley is the mother of a 3-year-old daughter. Her husband is in the military but was in Pennsylvania visiting family when the rampage occurred. Admirers have set up a fan page on Facebook where she's hailed as a hero.

BARBROW: She did what her job called her to do. She stepped up, took charge, and made it happen.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: That was Ed Lavandera reporting.

"LARRY KING LIVE" coming up next.