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Campbell Brown

Band of Sisters; Supreme Court Examines Electronic Privacy

Aired December 14, 2009 - 20:00   ET



CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Tonight, here are the questions we want answered.

Why are women in the military facing a new battle after returning home from war?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don't know when you drove a crowd whether there's a suicide bomber.

BROWN: Tonight our special series "Band of Sisters" looks at the women who risked it all for their country.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were fired at by snipers.

BROWN: Why is it so hard for female veterans to get the help they need?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My kids asked me, mommy, why did you do that?

BROWN: Facebook under fire for its new policy. And the Supreme Court is deciding who gets to read your text messages. Is there any part of your life you can keep secret?

Also tonight, the real-life version of the TV show "Weeds," a mom and son running their own pot farm.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Greenhouse one, greenhouse two.

BROWN: Why are they heading out into the middle of nowhere to grow marijuana?

And President Obama meets with some of the very people he calls fat cats, the heads of big banks and he says he is putting them on notice.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If they wish to fight common sense consumer protections, that's a fight I'm more than willing to have.

BROWN: Will Wall Street start lending money again to Main Street?


ANNOUNCER: This is your only source for news. CNN prime time begins now. Here's Campbell Brown.

BROWN: Welcome, everybody. We are going to start, as always, tonight with the "Mash-Up." We're watching it all so you don't have to.

And our top story tonight: showdown at the White House, a bit of a showdown -- the president turning up the pressure on the CEOs of the nation's biggest banks.


ED HENRY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The president's message to bankers was blunt: Taxpayers bailed you out, so now return the favor.

OBAMA: That America's banks received extraordinary assistance from American taxpayers to rebuild their industry and now that they're back on their feet we expect an inordinate -- extraordinary commitment from them to help rebuild our economy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The government says bank loans to consumers and businesses are down nearly $600 billion from last year.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president told the bankers they have an obligation to increase lending to small businesses, so they can create jobs, and to homeowners to help get the housing market out of the doldrums.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The president also laid into Wall Street for lobbying against reforms to financial regulation and won a concession from executives.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to sit down directly as CEOs and work together to find and craft solutions.


BROWN: We're going to have much more on this tonight, including analysis of just how willing the banks are to play ball with the White House and whether the White House has any leverage here.

President Obama, meantime, giving himself some pretty high marks on Oprah's holiday special last night. The queen of all media asked the leader of the free world to grade his first year in office.


OBAMA: Good solid B-plus.



OBAMA: Yes. I think that we have inherited the biggest set of challenges of any president since Franklin Delano Roosevelt. The economy is growing again. We are on our way out of Iraq. I think we have got the best possible plan for Afghanistan.

We have reset our image around the world. And I think that we're going to pass the most significant piece of social legislation since Social Security. And that's health insurance for every American.


WINFREY: So, B-plus? What could you have done better?

OBAMA: Well, B-plus because of the things that are undone.


OBAMA: Health care is not yet signed. If I get health care passed, I will -- we tip into A-minus.


MATTHEWS: So, how about the American public? Well, folks at home not really doling out the B-pluses to the president. Our latest CNN/Opinion Research poll shows only 48 percent approve of how he is handling his job right now.

And turning to the ghost of leaders past, former British Prime Minister Tony Blair under fire for saying he would have signed off on the Iraq war even if he had known there were no weapons of mass destruction. Blair's comments to the BBC caused quite the uproar, probably why he didn't want to revisit them with CNN's Phil Black, who then tracked him down at the climate change summit in Copenhagen.


PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In terms of what your intentions would have been, regardless of the existence of WMDs, in Iraq at that time, explain to me your thinking there. You have said that you would have taken that military action regardless?

TONY BLAIR, FORMER BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Yes. I will explain that at the right time with the inquiry, but I'm really on climate change today. It's the subject I have come here to talk about. So, I understand why you have got to ask me, Phil, but I hope you understand why I'm not going to comment on that today.

BLACK: Can I press you further slightly?

BLAIR: There's absolutely no point.

BLACK: Only because they are public statements. They are statements that you have made and are receiving coverage. If you could just expand on those thoughts a little bit for me.

BLAIR: But I'm afraid -- I don't mean to be difficult about it, but today I really want to focus on climate change. There will be plenty of time in the future to discuss the other issues.


BROWN: And there you have it. As Blair noted, Britain has launched an inquiry into the Iraq war. The former prime minister will certainly be the star witness.

Turning now to Italy, where Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi could be scarred by more than just scandal. He is in the hospital tonight one day after getting punched in the face at a campaign rally in Milan.

PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Watch this video as the attack comes in from the right-hand side. There it is.

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: It happened at a rally. Watch very closely. We slow it down for you. You can see a metal object hitting his face. And, man, it hurts.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His nose broken, his lip split, two teeth cracked, bloody Berlusconi tried to confront his attacker, a 42-year- old man with mental problems. It isn't the first time he has been hit by a stranger. Five years ago, he was whacked with a camera tripod.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was hit with a miniature replica of the Duomo in Milan, the big cathedral in Milan.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's some irony there.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Something like that.


BROWN: Ooh, he looks bad. Yesterday's attack just the latest in the string of bad luck stories about the prime minister. He is on trial for tax fraud and enmeshed in a pretty sordid sex scandal, but the Italians still love him, Berlusconi's approval rating well over 50 percent.

Turning to a scandal closer to home, Tiger Woods and his decision to take an indefinite leave from the sport that made him a household name. Well, it didn't take long for some of his sponsors to jump ship.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The dominoes are starting to fall. Gillette announced they won't air commercials with Woods or use him for public appearances for now. And Accenture, the global consulting firm, announced they are severing ties.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sports agents say expect others to follow Accenture's lead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Once a major blue-chip sponsor does leave, I think it provides the cover for getting out the door.

CHARLES GIBSON, HOST, "WORLD NEWS": Our new poll shows his popularity has plunged from 85 percent four years ago to less than half that now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two other major sponsors, Nike and Electronic Arts, still fully support Woods and say their business ties remain solid.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We worship our athletes. And Tiger will, in the future, most likely be an athlete whose exploits are worthy of that same adoration.

MIKE DERUNTZ, GOLF FAN: Him as a person isn't who I was a fan of. I was a fan of Tiger Woods as a golfer.


BROWN: Other Woods' sponsors are taking a wait-and-see approach. Swiss watchmaker Tag Heuer and phone giant AT&T both say they're weighing their options.

And that brings us to the "Punchline." This is courtesy of Conan O'Brien and William Shatner, who takes a whack at Sarah Palin's book and gets a little back in return. Take a look at this.


WILLIAM SHATNER, ACTOR: I always remind people from outside our state that there's plenty of room for all Alaska's animals, right next to the mashed potatoes.



CONAN O'BRIEN, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH CONAN O'BRIEN": I think you were incredible, just really.


SARAH PALIN (R), FORMER ALASKA GOVERNOR: I thought Bill did a great job, wonderful job.

O'BRIEN: He did a very nice job.

SHATNER: Thank you so much.

O'BRIEN: Thanks.

PALIN: And I think it's only appropriate then I road a few choice excerpts from Mr. Shatner's autobiography.



PALIN: "My whole being resonated with incredible feeling that I was going to go visit with an elephant on a starlit, moonless night in Africa. And I was going to visit that elephant in my underwear.



BROWN: O'Brien, Shatner, Palin, big round of applause, everybody.

That is the "Mash-Up."

And coming up next, our special investigation, "Band of Sisters," women warriors coming home from combat and not getting the help they need. Why aren't we ready for the female vets who have risked it all for their country? Tonight, we're looking for answers.


CPL. SHILOH MORRISON, U.S. MARINE CORPS RESERVIST: So, it's just really frustrating when you come back from a deployment and people already have their mind made up and already infer that you're not in combat, when everyone is in combat.



BROWN: Tonight, we begin our special series "Band of Sisters," focusing on women at war and the challenges they face on and off the battlefield.

One in 10 American troops serving in Afghanistan and Iraq are women. And thousands of them are falling victim to an injury with all the power of a bullet or a roadside bomb, an injury that's long haunted men in combat, post-traumatic stress disorder.

In a few moments, we will talk about some of the reasons women may have it tougher than men when it comes to PTSD. But, first, I want you to meet some of the moms, wives and daughters who have faced the emotional and psychological anguish.


STAFF SGT. JUNE MOSS (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Yes, we wanted part of the first wave in.

BROWN (voice-over): When Staff Sergeant June Moss was deployed in Iraq 2003, she had already served a stint in Kosovo in 1989. She thought she knew what she was in for, but she had no idea. J. MOSS: Kosovo was nothing like Iraq at all. People were literally dying right there on the spot.

BROWN: Moss worked as a mechanic and a driver, navigating dangerous terrain. She never knew what to expect. And she was scared every day.

J. MOSS: The decapitations. We saw the charred bodies from the explosions and from seeing all the debris. You didn't know when you drove through a crowd whether there was a suicide bomber or not. You didn't know if somebody was going to throw something your way.

BROWN: After five months of that, Moss says she returned home to her family.

J. MOSS: Within a few months of being home, that's when I noticed, hey, you know, something's a little odd.

BROWN: Moss says she was crying all the time and always felt anxious.

J. MOSS: Because I was never sleeping. I was constantly checking the locks and making sure we were secured.

BROWN: Her daughter Briona saw the change.

BRIONA MOSS, DAUGHTER: See says she had nightmares about like people taking us away or her in war or guns shooting.

BROWN: June distanced herself from her family and her friends.

J. MOSS: Most of the time, I would stay in the house and stay secluded, isolated, and wouldn't go shopping. I wouldn't visit. It was times that I didn't even want to get out of bed.

BROWN: With her life spiraling out of control, she attempted suicide by cutting her wrists.

J. MOSS: I remember when my -- the ambulance came and my kids asked me, mommy, why did you do that? And the only thing I could say at the time was, I had a bad day.

BROWN: She knew then she needed help. Nearly 20 percent of all service men and women returning from Iraq and Afghanistan suffer from PTSD, which is post-traumatic stress disorder, or its symptoms. And that's according to Dr. Natara Garovoy. She works at a first-of-its- kind center for women's mental health at the VA in Northern California. She says returning female soldiers like June Moss are particularly vulnerable.

DR. NATARA GAROVOY, VA HEALTH CARE SYSTEM: But any time they have been exposed to something that's life threatening for themselves, life-threatening for someone else or they felt helpless or they experienced horror, all that can qualify as a traumatic event that could lead to PTSD. BROWN: Women are joining the military at unprecedented rates, making up 14 percent of active-duty troops and 20 percent are in the reserves. Technically, they only serve in combat support roles. But that doesn't shield them from the horrors of war.

GAROVOY: Their combat exposure and their combat trauma is just as significant as men who are in combat roles. And, so, from a society perspective, sort of appreciating kind of women's contribution is a really important thing.

CPL. SHILOH MORRISON, U.S. MARINE CORPS RESERVIST: We were fired at by snipers a few times.

Twenty-year-old Corporal Shiloh Morrison was a gunner in Iraq. She's been seeing Dr. Garovoy for a year.

MORRISON: So, it's just really frustrating when you come back from a deployment and people already have their mind made up and already infer that you're not in combat, when everyone is in combat.

BROWN: Morrison served her time first in Iraq and then in Kuwait.

MORRISON: I worked in the mortuary the last four months of my deployment. And it's all the human remains from Iraq go through there. The fallen angels that I saw were younger than me. I grew up very quickly in four months.

BROWN: When she came back home, she re-enrolled in college, but life was anything but normal.

MORRISON: When you're a reservist, you come back and you're thrown right back into civilian, happy-go-lucky family life. And, I mean, that's not the reality.

BROWN: And, like many people who suffer the symptoms of PTSD, she couldn't sleep.

MORRISON: There's nothing that's going to stop certain images from coming.

BROWN: She soon realized she needed help.

MORRISON: I just knew that the person that I was at the time wasn't who I wanted to be. Just the angry person just wasn't who I was.

BROWN: Today, Shiloh Morrison is back in college full-time. She says she still struggles sometimes, worries about being deployed again.

MORRISON: It's mentally and physically exhausting. I feel like I'm about 40 years older than I am after one deployment. I don't want to go through two.

BROWN: June Moss says she was diagnosed with PTSD two years ago. She's recovering, but slowly.

J. MOSS: Cured is a big -- is a strong -- coping, adapting is probably where we're at. It's probably the best we can hope for. I don't think it ever goes away.


BROWN: Having PTSD hard enough for all veterans. But when it comes to treating it, women face hurdles that men simply don't. And I will talk to one woman who served on the front lines in Afghanistan and also a doctor who is helping our troops get the help they need when we come back. We also want to hear from you on this story. Go to

We will be right back.


BROWN: Tonight, our special series "Band of Sisters" tackles some very personal examples of women serving our country on the front lines and coping with post-traumatic stress after they come home. Women dealing with PTSD can face problems very different from those faced by men.

And with me tonight to examine why is Genevieve Chase, who is founder and executor of American Women Veterans, and Bridget Cantrell, a mental health professional specializing in combat trauma and in PTSD.

Genevieve, you experienced symptoms of PTSD after your deployment in Afghanistan. Talk to us a little bit about what happened in your case.

GENEVIEVE CHASE, FOUNDER, AMERICAN WOMEN VETERANS: With me specifically, I experienced a lot of sleepless nights. And then I would go days and days where I just wanted to do nothing but sleep. I had memory loss issues. I had intrusive thoughts come into my mind when I wasn't expecting it.

There were a number of issues. I had temperament problems and I was less than friendly to my family members.

BROWN: And, Bridget, you treat both male and female soldiers who are affected by this. And they are affected differently, right?


The presentations are different. The expectations are different for the male soldiers vs. the female soldiers. And I -- I use that as a generic term to encompass all branches of service. But the family members have expectations for the female warrior who comes home and expect her to get back into her role of being mother, daughter, or sister, wife, girlfriend, and be more or less the caretaker of the family and just kind of start over where she left off.

And it's very difficult. And sometimes even the female warriors who come home are parents and they find that it's very difficult for them to even be around their children and satisfy that desire to be close and take care of the needs of the family members. It can be very challenging for our female warriors.

BROWN: Let me ask you to both talk about one of the big differences, I think.

And, Genevieve, it's that, technically, women serve in noncombat roles. But that's very misleading, because we know in Iraq and Afghanistan, everything is combat. But because of that, they aren't always treated when you come home as if you were in a war zone. Talk to me a little bit about the impact that that has.

CHASE: Well, it's significant in that if a woman does -- is military police, for example, and she runs combat missions outside the wire on a daily basis, and she comes home and seeks treatment for post-traumatic stress or combat-related stress, she's not going to have that in her records.

There's nothing to differentiate the fact that she actually served in combat, per se, when in actuality she was running missions outside the wire on a daily basis. So, proving to her care providers that she is, in fact, entitled to services is becoming difficult, more difficult for them.

BROWN: But do you also see that in people you treat, Bridget, and something that women talk about, this sort of lack of recognition of what they have actually been through?

CANTRELL: Absolutely.

They come home and people don't -- they stereotype. They think, well, you know, you were in a support service. You're not going to be outside the wire. And so it gets very frustrating. And they feel like they're invalidated and they certainly are warriors. And they're out on the front lines and they're being medics and they're seeing all sorts of things that their male counterparts are seeing.

However, they're not treated the same when they get home.

BROWN: And, Genevieve, Bridget had mentioned children and the impact that this has on soldiers who obviously have young children or are starting families. What's your sense of that, about especially for these women who are coming home with having had these experiences?

CHASE: Well, I think that the issues need to be addressed immediately, because the fastest growing demographic of homeless veterans in the United States is women veterans with children.

And if we can get in front of that problem and that issue and start to recognize that this is a growing problem, then we can start to kind of staunch some of those numbers and start treating them the way that they should be treated and getting them the treatment and care they need.

BROWN: What would your recommendation be, your number-one recommendation, to the military, to the Pentagon, in terms of how to handle this?

CHASE: Well, my number-one recognition to the Department of Defense and the VA is to get motivated and get working on transitioning veterans -- or service members when they come home directly from DOD, the Department of Deference, straight into the veterans health care system. There shouldn't need to be a lag in care or a lag in oversight of these veterans. They should be able to transition directly into the system.

BROWN: Genevieve Chase and Bridget Cantrell for us tonight, appreciate your time. Thanks to both of you.


BROWN: Tomorrow night, our series will continue. We are going to take a look at single moms, that issue we just talked about, at war, juggling motherhood and duty and dealing with their own war trauma when they come home.


MELISSA TROTTER, Military MOM: I try not to cry, because you don't want your kids to see you cry. You have got to be strong. This is my job. And she might not have understood and he might not have understood, but I know I had to do this. This is what I have to do.


BROWN: That's part two of our special series "Band of Sisters" tomorrow night at 8:00 Eastern time.

From Facebook to your pager, there are important new developments tonight in the battle over your privacy. Now the Supreme Court getting involved. We Are going to look at what that could mean for you.

Plus, it's not your normal mother-son project, why a Colorado family is getting into the pot-growing business and not breaking a single law.


BROWN: Tonight, in our ongoing series "The End of Privacy," more proof that the line between personal and public gets a bit more blurry every day in the digital age.

First, their Facebook promising to change its settings once again, after some users found out they couldn't hide their friends' list any more under a new privacy -- under new privacy settings that were rolled out just last week.

And then there's the U.S. Supreme Court deciding to rule for the first time on whether employers are allowed to read text messages sent on company cell phones.

So, a lot to talk about tonight. And joining me right now, CNN senior legal NATO Jeffrey Toobin and technology TV host Katie Linendoll from A&E's "We Mean Business."

Jeff, I think we have all sent text messages that maybe we didn't want our boss to see. Are we really going to have to give up that info?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, you know what? You might want to go to a commercial, because there's nothing -- there's no good news here.

This is the rule. The -- well, talk about the Supreme Court case. The Ontario Police Department outside Los Angeles, they had a policy where you had a pager and you could send some personal text messages and you had to pay for them after a certain amount. So, it was sort of a mix of private and employer use on these pagers.

BROWN: Yes, but they clearly said it's OK to send some personal messages?

TOOBIN: Correct.

BROWN: Right.

TOOBIN: The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals said, well, in that case, you do, as an employee, have a right to privacy in the ones that you are permitted to send.

BROWN: Right.

TOOBIN: That's unlikely to survive in the Supreme Court.

BROWN: Why? Really?

TOOBIN: Because the Supreme Court and all courts have been very strict on this.

Here is your very excellent 2003 model that you get from CNN. That is -- even if you send -- like Gmails, if you have your own private Gmail account...


TOOBIN: ... if you use that hardware, CNN can see it. If you use your Turner account, CNN can see it.

BROWN: I'm learning so much right now.

TOOBIN: No, no. I mean, the law is terrible for individuals. You've got a BlackBerry. If you've send messages on that, CNN can see it.

Now, they don't often look, but under the legal regime now in effect, you have virtually no privacy rights in any machine that is given to you by your employer.

BROWN: So, this doesn't change that much between, like say, this was a government, you know, police department in California versus say a private company? It's kind of the same rules generally apply?

TOOBIN: The rules for the government tend to be even more pro- employer, but by and large they're the same. And look, people get fired. People get fired from this company all the time for doing things on their e-mail that they didn't want our employer to see and they see them. But we all do it.

BROWN: And then finally, I know, you sort of suggested this that in all likelihood -- I'm asking you to predict here.

TOOBIN: Right.

BROWN: That the Supreme Court is not going to favor privacy. They're more likely to favor the law that is stand?

TOOBIN: The courts are really waiting for the legislators to step in here. Because, you know, every time we log in, that sort of boiler plate at the bottom that none of us read, all of that always says, this is the property of CNN. It's not your property. And the courts have generally -- the courts have enforced that. It's going to take state legislators really to get involved and say and recognize reality that all of us -- now, CNN cannot tap your phone. Phones are different.

BROWN: Well, that's comforting.

TOOBIN: That's comforting. Well that's different. But it's starting to be -- this court recognized that e-mail is starting to be more like a phone call. But it's going to take state legislators to step in and recognize that.

BROWN: And start making laws.


BROWN: Let me bring up the Facebook stuff with Katie. And there's a lot of controversy now about Facebook's privacy policy.


BROWN: For those of us who haven't been completely following this, explain it. Lay it out for us.

LINENDOLL: Basically how it works is Facebook now, if you sign on or if you signed on already, they're going to update you with a privacy tool. You can keep your old settings or you can move on to new settings. And what they're trying to do is push the 350 million users in the community to make more of their data available. That is great for advertising and dirt cheap advertising for Facebook.

BROWN: Right.

LINENDOLL: It's brilliant. They have mass appeal and now they're capitalizing on it.

But what's scary is privacy. But when you're putting yourself out on to the web it's putting it out into the world. So forget Facebook, forge MySpace, forget Twitter. Any time you're putting your stuff up there, you've got to think twice. Internet privacy is nonexistent. It's an oxymoron.

BROWN: So, I mean completely nonexistent? That was going to be my next question. What do we do to protect ourselves? If you still want to be on Facebook, you want to have, you know...

LINENDOLL: Right. Right.

BROWN: ... your small select group of friends. Is there a way to protect yourself or you just have to give this up?

LINENDOLL: It's incredibly tough these days. You know, I tell people you've got to rethink. If you have to think twice about putting something on Facebook, whether it's a photo, whether it's a status update, don't do it. I think a lot of people get into the mesh where they just upload a photo. Next thing you know, they lose their job, or their employer is worried about what they said on the web. It's scary.

We're living in a different age. We're living in a digital age. It's a lot easier to get into trouble. And that's why with these Facebook privacy concerns, now not just friends or friends of friends, they're pushing you to share your content with everyone. Three hundred fifty million users in a community, not the best place to publish.

BROWN: Are we -- same thing here, are you going to see legislators trying to catch up with what's happening technologically?

TOOBIN: Well, if voters start to care about this stuff -- I mean, the problem is I think most of us sort of throw up our hands and say, you know, it's all too overwhelming and we don't really write our state legislators about privacy. But, you know, this is how we live our lives. We live our lives through these machines. We don't use the phone nearly as much as we used to and the law has not really caught up.

We still do have a good deal of privacy in phone calls. It takes a lot for the government to tap a phone line or even your employer can't just listen to all your phone calls. But this is how we live. But the law has not caught up with that.

BROWN: But there are changes taking place.


BROWN: Because I know you have to pick your Facebook friends rather carefully now.


BROWN: In Florida, an ethics group just decided that judges can't have lawyers as friends, I read? LINENDOLL: It's very tricky, but you have to think about the fundamentals here. Facebook is not your friend, no pun intended. They are a business. They have a business model, and their end goal is to create revenue.

BROWN: Right.

LINENDOLL: So ultimately we knew that at some point, Facebook needed to capitalize. And that's exactly what's happening. It goes back to the basics of just protecting yourself and being smarter about the content that you put on the web.

BROWN: So interesting. All right. A lot to learn here. Katie Linendoll, thank you, Katie, Jeff Toobin.


TOOBIN: Something else to worry about.


LINENDOLL: Accept it.

BROWN: Oh, yes. Thanks very much, guys.

They are the pioneers of pot, apparently. Meet a new breed of family farmers, growing medical marijuana, when we come back.


BROWN: In our breakout segment tonight, marijuana. It is now legal in 13 states to grow marijuana for medicinal purposes and it is a booming business.

Colorado could be one of the very first states in the country to regulate it and tax it. And CNN's all platform journalist Jim Spellman went to visit one family three hours south of Denver. He's got the story of a mother who used to flush her son's pot and now she helps him grow it.


JIM SPELLMAN, CNN ALL PLATFORM JOURNALIST (voice-over): So, this is your little marijuana farm?

JASON IRWIN, MEDICAL MARIJUANA ENTREPRENEUR: Yes. This is me and my mother's little marijuana farm. Greenhouse one. Greenhouse two.

DIANE IRWIN, MEDICAL MARIJUANA GROWER: I had a hair salon in Lakewood for 17 years. I sold my salon and moved down to the country.

J. IRWIN: It started in July, which was really late because we didn't even get this property until June.

D. IRWIN: I gave Jason some money after I sold the salon, and I just trusted him to do what he thought was best to invest the money and help us to get ahead financially. And so one day I was staying with him and he said he was going to open a dispensary. And I said go for it.

J. IRWIN: The growers deal with a lot of the poundage, which is where the dollars are.

D. IRWIN: He called me one day on the phone and said, "Mom, I think we should buy this land. And how do you feel about growing medical marijuana? And I said OK. It was just a faith thing.

SPELLMAN: And so your mom during the growing season, your mom lived in this camper?

J. IRWIN: Yes. No. She also started hanging the buds in here. She did half the harvest in here. She lived in here by herself with no real heat or water in this camper.

D. IRWIN: It was a -- it was an adventure that I'd never thought about experiencing. When we finished, it was like an outward bound course for me, living off the grid, roughing it.

J. IRWIN: We got two ounces per plant. Total off 62 greenhouse plants we've got like, I think, 13 pounds. It's a really cheap investment to grow -- to be able to legally grow 63 cannabis plants in a market that's been determined by the black -- by the illicit drug market.

D. IRWIN: And it was fun. Every morning I would go out and talk to my girls and pray over them and ask them to provide good medicine for the people that were going to be using it.

So, you know, growing up, I used to bust him all the time with marijuana. And I used to flush it down the toilet or stash it. I'm in for the long haul. I really do feel like we're pioneers, bringing new life to medical marijuana. And it's exciting.


BROWN: That was from CNN all platform journalist Jim Spellman. Between the year 2000 when Colorado first legalized medical marijuana and 2008, the state issued about 2,000 medical marijuana cards to patients. Today, that number over 60,000.

President Obama tried to bargain with Wall Street bankers today, just hours after calling them fat cats on TV. So, will his strategy help Americans to desperately need loans right now? When we come back.


BROWN: Tonight, two more big banks say they are paying back their taxpayer bailouts. Wells Fargo will repay $25 billion in TARP loans as Citigroup returns $20 billion to the treasury.

Earlier today, President Obama met at the White House with leaders of the country's top banks just hours after slamming them on "60 Minutes." Take a look.


BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I did not run for office to be helping out a bunch of, you know, fat cat bankers on Wall Street.


BROWN: Today, a different tone from the president, as he tried to press, cajole Wall Street bankers into lending money to Main Street businesses.


BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My main message in today's meeting was very simple, that America's banks received extraordinary assistance from American taxpayers to rebuild their industry and now that they're back on their feet, we expect an extraordinary commitment from them to help rebuild our economy.


BROWN: Joining me now from Cheraw, South Carolina, CNN chief business correspondent Ali Velshi. And with me here in the studio, Charlie Gasparino, CNBC editor and author of the book "The Sellout: How Three Decades of Wall Street Greed and Government Mismanagement Destroyed the Global Financial System."

Ali, let me start with you. What was the president trying to do today? What were his real goals?

ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think there are two goals. One is he's trying to be in sync with the American people. And from what I can tell from being out on the road, he is, both with reference to Wall Streeters as fat cats, because that's largely what people tell me they think of Wall Street as, and in saying that Wall Street seemed to get a disproportionate amount of help from the government so we'd like a disproportionate amount of help or at least a proportionate amount of help back.

So I think the president is saying he's trying to dig a tougher line with Wall Street. But beyond that, I don't know what he was expecting to achieve because it's not like he would be surprised by the responses he got from the CEOs with whom he met today.

BROWN: And you talked to some of the people I know who were in this meeting.


BROWN: What was your take? Was it productive on any level?

GASPARINO: I mean, the absurdity of this meeting is that the wind-up, everybody expected to be taken to the woodshed. But when they got in there, a completely different Obama, kinder and gentler, so to speak.

BROWN: But then, how do you -- one, you know, slam them in the "60 Minutes" interview and then the next day --

GASPARINO: You know, this was a big show. I mean, because what it really comes down to is this. If you want to know why bankers are making so much money, look to the White House. There were extraordinary measures put in place last year at this time to prevent the financial collapse, right? Or during the financial collapse to prevent even worse collapse.

Those measures are still in place right now. They are subsidies of low interest rates, guarantees on debt, too big to fail which is allowing Goldman Sachs to amass $20 billion. So it's really his fault that they're making all this money.

BROWN: So, what -- I mean, what leverage does he have, given that scenario, Ali, to get them to do anything?

VELSHI: Well, the issue here is that the populous, the country does see the pay packages and the type of money that Wall Street is earning as unfair. Whether or not that's justified, that's how they see it, which means that there is a climate out there that would support legislation that might trim the profits of Wall Street banks. It might trim the earnings of those CEOs.

So what I think the CEOs are worried about is not that President Obama can somehow shut them down or immediately cut them off. It's the idea that there's a climate out there that says these guys are not playing fairly and they would support something being done. The American populous might support something being done that might punish them.

GASPARINO: You know, I don't think these Wall Street guys are really afraid of regulation. I mean, I think what they know is that if you keep interest rates at zero, where it is today, if you declare Goldman Sachs a commercial bank, which means it could borrow cheaply from the fed, if you keep all these measures in place, they're going to make money hand over fist.

Now if the president really cares about all this money being made, he would cut off the umbilical cord right now. But he's not. By the way, they're his biggest campaign contributors.

Well, get the campaign contribution list. Look how much money McCain got versus how much money Obama got. It must be twice as much. Wall Street funneled twice as much money to Obama than McCain.

BROWN: Go ahead, Ali.

VELSHI: Back to your point, Charlie, which Charlie is right. It did seem to be for show today because the president did seem to come out a little more strongly yesterday. But I think that's to be expected.

I think we all do that. We all call them fat cats behind their back and then when you're sitting in a meeting, you're going to be a little polite. The reality is both of these groups do need each other, so the president is trying to talk tough because he has been under a lot of criticism that he's not been tough enough on Wall Street. And this was his attempt to sound tougher. I'm not sure that fully resonated with everyone.

BROWN: So, Ali, you're out there. You're talking to people. I mean, lending seems to be the huge issue here, right? I mean, that's what you're mostly hearing from people is they're inability to borrow.


BROWN: And so what has to happen other than for him to ask nicely, which is all I can see that came out of this meeting really.

GASPARINO: I'm sorry. You want me to answer it?

BROWN: Go ahead, Ali, and then I'll get you.

VELSHI: I'm sorry, Charlie. I didn't mean to interrupt.

The CEO of U.S. Bancorp came out and said, you know, one of the things that the banks are going to do is they're going to take a second look at a lot of the lending.


BROWN: But that was one -- that was one person who said that. Everybody was at that meeting today.

GASPARINO: Ali, what they said in the meeting today, well, they told him, they said people are not coming to them for loans. The amount of people coming, lining up and mailing in loan applications has dropped off dramatically. Now why are small businesses not asking for loans right now? The reason why is because they're afraid of higher taxes. They're afraid of all the regulations.

VELSHI: Yes. Do you believe that, though, Charlie? Do you believe that --

BROWN: Go ahead, Ali.

VELSHI: I'm not sure I believe that. I think there are certain amount of people, for instance, who don't look for jobs because they're manufacturing workers in a place that's seen a manufacturing decline. I think the reality is all we would need to do is report on the news for two days in a row that there are loans going out to small businesses and you'd probably see the number of applications increase tenfold.

GASPARINO: Ali -- Ali, there's clearly less people asking for loans. But here's something else. You're right, the banks aren't making loans. Now why aren't the banks making loans?

I'm telling you, one major reason is because it's so much easier to borrow at nearly zero and buy a treasury bond and make that carry trade, make that difference right there. That's how they're making money. There's no incentive. And the reason why there's no incentive is because of the fed and the White House.

BROWN: All right. Ali Velshi for us tonight. Charlie Gasparino, as always. Thanks guys. Appreciate it.

"LARRY KING LIVE" starts in just a few minutes. Larry, what do you have for us.

LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Campbell, President Obama as we've been discussing met face to face today with the people he called fat cat bankers. How did that go? Donald Trump is here with some thoughts.

And then the former basketball star, Dennis Rodman will weigh in on Tiger Woods' problems. Can the golfer redeem himself, maybe salvage that reputation? Don't bet against it. It's all next, Campbell, on "LARRY KING LIVE."

BROWN: All right, Larry. We'll see you in a few minutes.

Climate talks in Copenhagen came to a sudden stop after a walkout today. The boycott is over, but did it destroy any chance of a deal on global warming? When we come back.


BROWN: Today, there were fears the global warming conference in Copenhagen might fall apart when developing countries staged a five- hour walkout. That walkout and a spat between the United States and China, just the latest in a series of setbacks at the conference. CNN's Becky Anderson is in Copenhagen with the story of what, if anything, has been achieved so far -- Becky.

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Campbell, this summit kicked off seven days ago with a toxic shock that was "climate-gate," and that affected the atmosphere here for about, I don't know, a day or so. We thought we had gotten over it until we got what was dubbed the Danish tapes. That was polluting and polluting for another four or five days. We got through the end of last week really believing that the difficulties would be over.

It was a shocker of a first week for delegates here and negotiators. We get to Monday, the leaders were on their way there, just a couple of days away. In fact, the prime minister of Britain is on his way here tomorrow.

And what do we get today? You couldn't make it up. We had a significant walkout, a boycott by the developing nations, led by the big boys, China, India, Brazil and South Africa.

I couldn't tell you what I would bet by the end of this week. The sense is the divisions are still extremely deep between rich and poor nations, the polluters, as they're known here, and the polluted. All bets are off, I would say, until we get to the end of this week. World leaders will be here. They will hope to have a deal that they can sign up to. But at this point, who knows -- Campbell.

BROWN: All right, Becky Anderson tonight.

"LARRY KING LIVE" starts in just a few minutes.

And up next, millions of e-mails from the Bush White House once lost now found?

Plus, real-life drama for a TV actor, all coming up. The details in the "Download" right after this.


BROWN: "LARRY KING LIVE" just minutes away. First, though, more must-see news happening right now. HLN's Mike Galanos with tonight's "Download."

Hi, Mike.

MIKE GALANOS, HLN PRIME NEWS: Hey, Campbell. You talk about those e-mails and the mystery of the White House e-mails solved today.

Computer technicians found 22 million e-mails that the Bush administration had said were lost. They turned up after two watchdog groups sued to make them public, but it could take years to actually see them. The National Archives will go through all 22 million to figure out which can be released under freedom of information laws.

Senate Democrats held an emergency meeting at the Capitol tonight on health care. Two senior Democratic sources tell CNN they're trying to decide whether to drop a compromise that would allow 55 to 64-year- olds to buy into Medicare. That was supposed to appease liberals who were upset about dropping the public option, but Independent senator Joe Lieberman is opposed and that could be the death of that.

Now this, cast member on NBC sitcom "30 Rock" needs a life-saving transplant. Grizzwald "Grizz" Chapman, he plays one of Tracy Morgan's sidekicks on the show. He's getting dialysis treatment while he's on the waiting list for a new kidney. Now the 375-pounder must lose 75 pounds to be considered a viable candidate for a transplant.

Finally this one at Christmas, a nightmare for kids if they see it. But it's for a good cause. Here it is. Running around, it's Santas in Speedos and bikinis in 30- temperatures above 30 degrees.

Five hundred people doing the run, the Santa run, the Santa Speedo run in Boston over the weekend. Again, they raise a lot of money, $500,000 raised for charity over the past 10 years. All runners have to raise 250 bucks, so it adds up. Might want to cover the eyes but, again, a pretty good cause.

BROWN: Yes, I was going to say. All righty then. Good looking people there.

GALANOS: Best way to start the week, yes.



BROWN: Mike Galanos for us tonight. Mike, thank you very much.

GALANOS: Thanks, Campbell.

BROWN: We'll see you tomorrow.

BROWN: Tomorrow night our special series "Band of Sisters" continues. We're going to look at single moms at war, juggling motherhood and duty and dealing with their own war trauma when they come back home. That's tomorrow night at 8:00 Eastern Time.

That's it for us. Thanks for joining us.

"LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.