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Campbell Brown
Interview With Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders; War Before the War
Aired December 21, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Tonight, here are the questions we want answered. Who got paid off on the health care vote? Who cashed in big?
SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R), TEXAS: This bill was the result of backroom deals with specific senators.
VELSHI: Billions of dollars of your money could be headed for pet projects.
CORNYN: The senator who threatened to vote no decided to vote yes after that special deal was included.
VELSHI: That senator, Bernie Sanders of Vermont, joins us right here.
Why is the Army threatening get pregnant or get another soldier pregnant and get court-martialed? We will look at the new order issued to tens of thousands of troops on the battlefield.
This is being called the worst decade in stocks ever. Should you have kept your money under the mattress instead? What the last 10 years can teach us about the next 10 years. I will crunch the numbers and look at what went wrong.
And what killed Brittany Murphy? The movie and TV actress was just 32 years old. Were there warning signs? We're on top of this Hollywood tragedy.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is your only source for news. CNN prime time begins now.
Here's Campbell Brown.
VELSHI: Hi, everyone. Campbell has the night off. I'm Ali Velshi.
We will start off as we always do with the "Mash-Up." We're watching it all so you don't have to.
We begin tonight with the president is calling a big victory for the American people. Shortly after 1:00 a.m., the Senate got the minimum 60 votes need to limit debate on the health care bill and push the bill forward. How the Democrats got to that 60, well, Washington insiders are calling it party favors.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: because President Obama as a candidate promised that things would be different if he were in the White House, Republicans are seizing on this.
CORNYN: This bill was a result of back room deals with specific senators, persuading them to vote for cloture, what has caused some people to call on the blogs and on the Internet cash for cloture.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At least seven senators demanded deals worth tens or hundreds of millions of dollars to mostly benefit their home states.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nebraska Democrat Ben Nelson, who held back his yes vote until he secured valuable extra federal money for his state, including a new hospital.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Vermont's Bernie Sanders, the last liberal holdout, got $600 million in Medicaid help. Finance Chairman Max Baucus got Medicare coverage for the victims of asbestos exposure in Libby, Montana.
Democrats shrugged off questions about the one-state deals, saying this is how you get to 60 votes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a shame that that's the only way we can come to a consensus in this country, is to buy votes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: Well, you probably missed the big vote since it happened around 1:00 in the morning. It did not happen without a fight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MAJORITY LEADER: This is not about partisanship or about procedure, and everyone knows we're here at 1:00 in the morning because of my friends on the other side of the aisle.
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: Make no mistake. If the people who wrote this bill were proud of it, they wouldn't be forcing this vote in the dead of night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guess what this bill will do? It will lower your premiums and it will improve your coverage.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: We will not do this. We will not commit generational theft on future generations of Americans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: Well, a final vote on the bill is now expected for Christmas Eve. Obviously, if that happens, we will be there with the news of it for you.
Iran's foreign minister says tonight that he expects -- quote -- "appropriate sentences" when three American students being held in an Iranian jail stand trial. The three Berkeley students were hiking in Iraq's northern Kurdistan region when they wandered across the unmarked border and were arrested in July.
In an interview with ABC "World News" anchor Diane Sawyer, Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad wouldn't back down about putting the three on trial.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DIANE SAWYER, HOST, "WORLD NEWS": Are you still going to do your best to set them free?
MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD, IRANIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Yes. But I have got a question to you. How do you know they have accidentally crossed into Iran? How do you know they were looking for waterfalls...
(CROSSTALK)
SAWYER: Do you have evidence that it was not accidental, young people on a hike, on a vacation?
AHMADINEJAD (through translator): Who has told you this? Are you a judge?
SAWYER: Their mothers and their families, in enormous anguish, have asked, can they go to see them? Can they speak to them by telephone? will you help arrange that?
AHMADINEJAD (through translator): We are not happy about it either. We're unhappy about all prisoners. In America, there are 3.5 million prisoners. We are unhappy about all of them. They're also away from their families.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: Well, the mother of one of the hikers made a video appeal for Iran to release her daughter in time for Christmas. Well, tonight, the L.A. coroner says actress Brittany Murphy was sick with flu-like symptoms in the days before she died. The coroner performed an autopsy on the 32-year-old today. Murphy's husband tells "Access Hollywood" that up to the point she died, yesterday had been an ordinary day.
But that still doesn't answer the questions surrounding how she died.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hollywood is mourning the death of one of its own -- 32-year-old actress Brittany Murphy died Sunday morning after paramedics were called to her Los Angeles home. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The 32-year-old actress is best known for her rolls in "Clueless," "Girl, Interrupted" and "8 Mile."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lately, her changed appearance had sparked questions about her health.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brittany had been looking very thin lately. Recently, when she stepped out in public, people noticed it and started to worry about her.
BARBARA WALTERS, CO-HOST, "THE VIEW": They have said that she has taken prescription drugs before she died...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her mom found her, right?
WALTERS: ... and that they discovered a large quantity of prescription drugs at her house. But, however she died, 32 is -- it's very sad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: Well, it will be several weeks before the toxicology reports come back.
Add President Obama to the list of people who have gotten the swine flu vaccine. Tonight, the White House said the president got his shot yesterday. The first lady got hers a couple days ago. The president also made a surprise visit to a local boys and girls club this afternoon bringing Christmas cookies and reading from "The Polar Express."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: All aboard, the conductor cried out. I ran up to him. Well, he said, are you coming? Where, I asked? Why, to the North Pole, of course, was his answer. This is the Polar Express. I took his outstretched hand, and he pulled me aboard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: Tonight, thousands of stranded travelers wish they could climb on the Polar Express. There's still mayhem as the East Coast continues to dig out from this weekend's blizzard that dumped two feet of snow in some places. At airports up and down the Eastern Seaboard, everyone's biggest question is whether they will be home for Christmas, or only in their dreams.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: Newport, Rhode Island 20.5 inches, Manhattan, 10.9 inches, Medford, New Jersey, two feet of snow, Baltimore not far behind with 21 inches. Now, Philadelphia 23.2 inches, that's the city's second highest ever from a single storm.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Flights have been canceled, delayed, missed. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So with the wedding party at her side, Shawna (ph) decided she couldn't wait any longer. She decided the airport would just have to do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You may now kiss the bride.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's exhausting. It's the ugliest way to fly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: Just wait. There's another monster winter storm that will sock the Midwest. But if it's any consolation for travelers, today, the federal Department of Transportation announced a new rule forbidding airlines from sitting on the tarmac more than three hours.
And that leads us to the "Punchline" tonight courtesy of Wanda Sykes. You might remember Oprah paid a visit to the White House, but I don't remember this being part of that TV special.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: These are pictures that remind me of what's important and why I'm doing what I'm doing.
OPRAH WINFREY, HOST, "THE OPRAH WINFREY SHOW": Yes, that's the wedding.
OBAMA: Michelle looks exactly the same.
WINFREY: Yes.
OBAMA: She has not changed.
WINFREY: Yes. Yes.
OBAMA: Obviously, this one I love, just because everybody is so cute. This is a picture from the day I announced for the presidency.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: And that's tonight's "Mash-Up."
Thousands of U.S. soldiers have just been given a new order. Don't get pregnant or else. Is that even legal?
Plus, we begin a special series, "War Before the War." We have exclusive video inside a never-before-seen combat training facility. It's so realistic, some of our troops feel like they're in the heart of Iraq or Afghanistan.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Tonight, we're going to take you as close as you can get to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq without actually going there, a place that is hot, scary, and full of people trying to kill our troops, something that commanders want U.S. soldiers to experience before they ever step foot on the battlefield.
It's a training ground that looks like a Hollywood soundstage, but this is no movie.
T.J. Holmes gives us the exclusive unprecedented access in this first part of his special series, the "War Before the War." And a warning: While everything you are going to see is part of a simulation, it may be disturbing for some to watch.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
T.J. HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For the 1st Brigade of the 3rd Infantry Division, it was shaping up to be a very bad day. As the convoy wound its way through a desert canyon, it comes under attack from insurgents perched in the surrounding mountains.
The soldiers eventually fight their way through to a suspected insurgent hideout. They're forced to clear the village building by building.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get in there! Get in there!
HOLMES: There are casualties. But this isn't Iraq.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guys, move, move, move!
HOLMES: Or Afghanistan. This is California. And before heading to war, many soldiers come here to the Mojave Desert, where training is anything but basic.
This is the National Training Center at Fort Irwin, billed as the most realistic training facility in the world.
CAPT. SCOTT STEPHENS, 1ST BRIGADE, 3RD INFANTRY DIVISION: I will tell you what. They get it so doggone close here, I had to kind of close my eyes a few times and remind myself, hey, this is just training and this is just -- we're in California.
HOLMES: When it opened 30 years ago, the NTC was meant to prepare soldiers for conventional warfare against primarily a Soviet threat. Times and enemies have changed, and so has the NTC.
COL. BENNIE WILLIAMS, 1ST BRIGADE, 3RD INFANTRY DIVISION: It's actually no comparison. When I first came out here as a young lieutenant in 1985, the entire place was a desert. But, over the years, NTC has done a great job in adapting to what our forces are geared towards and what the current fight is.
HOLMES: The California desert provides an ideal natural terrain...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go into the building. HOLMES: ... for the Army's own version of a Hollywood production, complete with props, special effects, and actors. We spent a week in the desert with the 1st Brigade out of Fort Stewart, Georgia, for their training rotation before deployment to Iraq.
Colonel Gregory Sierra is one of the commanders of the 1st Brigade.
LT. COL. GREGORY SIERRA, 1ST BRIGADE, 3RD INFANTRY DIVISION: You're there. When you're on a mission, the conditions have been set appropriately by the National Training Center that it puts people in the -- you're in Iraq. Mentally, you're in Iraq, and that's what we want. When we go out on a combat patrol when we get to Iraq, and my guys are going outside the wire, it won't be the first time because in their mind they already did it here at the National Training Center.
HOLMES: The training area is the size of Rhode Island. The military has set up authentic replicas of Iraqi towns like this one, the streets crawling with role players. Some are Iraqi American actors and others are Fort Irwin-based soldiers who live out here and stay in character for weeks at a time while units train.
The training is fluid, evolving based on the unit's performance. For example, soldiers got a tip that this town's mayor was being targeted by insurgents, but soldiers didn't move quickly enough to provide protection. The mayor was assassinated as he walked outside his house. Security forces then went after the assassin, running into this building. Turns out the building was booby-trapped, a hard lesson taught by this man.
"ABDUL QADEER," TRAINER: It's always good to take pride in your work.
HOLMES: We're not allowed to tell you his real name or show his face. His nickname, though, the Osama bin Laden of the NTC.
QADEER: I'm the head insurgent basically equivalent to someone like Osama bin Laden, where I control the network, I feed out information, tell them to do missions, and then I'm kind of hunted almost.
HOLMES: He's a 24-year-old soldier from Maryland who has become the most wanted man in the Mojave. He's been here a year, and he's never been caught.
(on camera): When you joined the military, that you would end up being the number-one most-wanted guy that your own fellow soldiers would be looking for?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: And that's something else there. That just gives you an idea of how seriously they take it. We debate want to show his face. They don't want him to be seen and to be known by other units who are coming to train.
VELSHI: Wow.
HOLMES: He's never been caught. And it's important for him to be so good at his job, because that makes them better at their job when they get over into theater. But they take it that seriously. Nobody has -- he walks around. I mean, we have seen his face. He walks around among them, but no unit has caught him. They have no idea who he is, so it's an important part of the training.
VELSHI: Clearly, they replicate the conditions very well, but so much of what happens in theater in those countries is about the tension, the unexpectedness. Can they replicate that tension? It looked like when they assassinated that mayor and the bomb went off in the building, it looked like they were getting there.
HOLMES: Well, that's a part of it. And we say it's a fluid situation. The scenario changes depending on how they react.
And, yes, we saw guys and we have heard stories even -- but saw it ourselves, guys getting -- out there getting nervous, scared, breaking down, can't handle what they see and what's happening around them. The element of surprise is very important. And even the soldiers who have been to Iraq and go back here to the NTC for training, they say, yes, this is important to get me back in the right frame of mind.
No, you can't get it exactly like theater. But this is as close as you can get. We are going to be sharing some more this week about some of those players in the scenario, those actors.
HOLMES: Yes, who they are, who those actors are. We will see you tomorrow night.
T.J., thanks very much.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: T.J. is on "AMERICAN MORNING," as well, so catch him there.
Tomorrow night, T.J. is continue the special series. It's called "War Before the War." You're going to meet civilians who are a crucial part of this training, the role playing actors. It's not glamorous work, but they may just save the lives of some of our troops. That's tomorrow.
We also have a much different story involving our troops to share with you tonight. Thousands of them have just been banned from getting pregnant. How is that legal? We will talk about it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Twenty-two U.S. soldiers serving in northern Iraq have just gotten two new orders from their general. Rule one, don't get pregnant. Rule two, don't get another soldier pregnant. Break those rules and you will get court-martialed. The general, Anthony Cucolo, e-mailed CNN explaining his decision, telling us -- quote -- "I need every soldier I have got, especially since we are facing a drawdown of forces during our mission."
With me now, CNN legal analyst Lisa Bloom and former military JAG Tom Kenniff.
Welcome to both of you.
Lisa, let's start with this. It struck me as very, very strange that you can actually make those kind of rules about people getting pregnant. What do you think?
LISA BLOOM, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: In my view, this is patently unconstitutional, Ali.
There's a long line of U.S. Supreme Court cases that says that the right to be a parent is a fundamental constitutional right. That means it's a right of the highest order and worthy of the highest protection.
Now, the military does get great deference from the courts, which means, if they want to redeploy a pregnant soldier, as they often do, they can do that in the way that a private employer could not do. But they cannot threaten with court-martial or jail a pregnant woman or a man who impregnates a woman. In my view, this will not pass any kind of constitutional muster.
VELSHI: Tom, the general who put this order out isn't in hiding about it. He e-mailed us. He's actually going to be doing interviews tomorrow. We will see him on CNN.
Walk me through how he makes the case for this.
THOMAS KENNIFF, FORMER ARMY JAG OFFICE ATTORNEY: Well, first of all, I think he may be going into hiding soon, because I think this is a situation where you have a commanding general who is in charge of his own fiefdom in northern Iraq and probably thought that he could do this with the consent of his own JAG, who may -- we use a term in the military when JAGs are referred to as going native, meaning that they're basically acting as yes men for the commend.
I agree with Lisa fully that there are serious constitutional problems with this and military laws and military orders are not exempt from constitutional scrutiny. The Supreme Court weighs in on military case laws and military decisions all the time.
So, you know, I think when this gets more exposure, as it is now through the media, there's going to be some major fallout here, because there's no question in my mind this is a major violation of the right to privacy.
VELSHI: We have got the order here, Lisa. It's several pages long. And in fact this business about getting pregnant or getting someone pregnant is sort of buried in and amongst a whole lot of other rules that say no pornography and no alcohol and all sorts of things.
How does a thing like this get fought? What would have to happen? Somebody would have to get pregnant or get somebody pregnant and get court-martialed and fight it? How does that even happen?
BLOOM: Well, that's right. A person would have to have standing. They would have to be adversely affected in order to bring a case, so this would be a person who is fearful of adverse consequences or who is actually suffering from adverse consequences.
I also think, by the way, there's a major issue of sex discrimination here, which isn't trumped by the fact that those who impregnate, i.e. men, are also subject to this, because it's a lot more obvious who is pregnant than who has done the impregnating. And I think it's clear to most of us that women are going to be the ones that are adversely affected.
I have also heard there's only about four people, four women who have become pregnant under this general's command. So, it hasn't been a huge issue requiring this kind of dire outcome. I just don't see the reasoning behind it.
VELSHI: Tom, they have made the case for the reasoning, and that is that they couldn't afford to lose soldiers. But I think Lisa points out, has this ever been a major problem? And was it necessary to add that to the list of things like not having pornography and alcohol and...
KENNIFF: Sure. This has been a problem since, you know, we have had women in the military. This is a problem in corporate America. When someone gets pregnant, they go on maternity leave, it creates issues. But does it warrant this type of policy and does it make this type of policy constitutional?
I don't think so. Now, just to go back to Lisa's point, as far as finding a soldier who has standing to challenge these sort of policies, it's always very difficult, because what the military prosecution in these type of cases normally does is they will group this charge with other charges.
Now, the one particular soldier let's say is pregnant and goes to see a trial defense attorney and the JAG corps will says, look, I have this issue, I don't think it's fair. But she may already -- may be facing additional charges that do have merit and will be put in the situation where say, hey, look, if we turn down a plea offer or turn down say nonjudicial punishment in Article 15 and take this up, we may win on this charge, but you're exposed on other charges.
And that's why a lot of these things as far as standing goes don't work their way up the pipeline...
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: But, as Lisa says, soldiers have fewer freedoms in some cases than we're used to. KENNIFF: They have fewer freedoms because their freedoms need to be balanced against military necessity, but it doesn't mean that the Army can completely trump well-established constitutional rights, which I believe they're doing here.
BLOOM: And Ali?
VELSHI: Yes, Lisa.
BLOOM: Listen, just as a public policy matter, I can't see the American public getting behind a policy that one of our service members serving our country has to have an abortion or go to jail. I don't think that's very politically palatable to either side of the abortion issue.
VELSHI: We're going to hear from this general tomorrow right here on CNN.
Lisa, good to talk to you. Thanks very much, Lisa Bloom, CNN legal analyst, and Tom Kenniff, former military JAG. Tom, good to see you. Thank you.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: Well, there was serious wheeling and dealing before today's Senate vote on health care. We will look at which senators got how much money for their states in exchange for their vote.
Plus, Wall Street is doing better these days, but all in all it's being called the worst decade for stocks ever. Charlie Gasparino and I are going to look at what you should do with your money.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Well, it now seems to be a question not of if, but of when the Senate will pass health care reform. All signs are pointing to a final vote on Thursday, Christmas Eve, a little after 1:00 this morning. In a straight party-line vote, the Democrats blocked a GOP filibuster.
In a moment, we will dig into the last-minute deal-making that it took to make that deal happen.
But, first, Tom Foreman is here to show us what's left in the bill and what's left out as well as what's next -- Tom.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is a critical part, Ali.
How do you reconcile the differences between the Senate version of this bill over here and the House version over here? And let's talk about first the public option. This is something that the Senate said they will not have, which is to say a government-run insurance program for people to get involved in. They want to offer nonprofit private plans as an alternative. Over here in the House, people said they wanted a public option. Now, everybody seems to agree the public option is dead, but bear in mind there are many Democrats over here in the House who have not yet really swallowed that bitter pill. You know it's going to come up some more and it's going to be tough. So the critical constituency to watch in this, the base, liberals.
Let's look at the next part of this equation, abortion restrictions. Here's what happened. Over here in the Senate, they said, yes, we will have abortion restrictions. Over here in the House, they said, yes, we will have abortion restrictions, so they agree.
The problem is there are significant numbers of Democrats in both chambers who don't want it. They only agreed to it as a procedural matter to keep this thing alive and moving forward. Now they want to strip it back out of this measure. And that's going to renew the fight because there are people who agreed who will not agree now if you take out these restrictions on the ability of federal money to be spent on abortion procedures for women.
So, the critical constituency, of course it's women. Let's move on and look at the next part, covering the cost. The CBO has looked at this and said these plans will ultimately be deficit-neutral. But that's ultimately. Right now, you still have to spend a lot of money to get all of this going if you want to make these kind of giant changes.
Now, both of them say that they have a way to cover the costs, so we can check that out on both sides. But they disagree on how to do it. The House over here likes the idea of just generally putting a bigger tax on everybody who has got a lot of money, the Senate, not so much. The Senate says let's go after those Cadillac health plans. Let's tax those plans.
That's a problem because of another constituency, unions, for one, because many unions agreed to very lucrative health care plans, instead of pay raises. They don't want to be hit with the extra money now. And fiscal moderates are concerned.
And the last area I want to talk about here very quickly is illegal immigrant coverage. Over here the Senate says no. We do not want illegal immigrants to be covered at all. Over here in the House they say, if they want to buy it themselves, they ought to be able to buy it themselves, they're going to have to sort that out. And the issue, of course, is going to be the Latino vote.
This is a critical part of about this, Ali, that you have to bear in mind. Look at this. Liberals, women, fiscal moderates, unions and Latinos, all of these people played a tremendous role in giving the Democrats the power they have right now, and they're all right in the middle of this fight between Democrats watching to see how this has worked out. There's a lot of agreements, but still some really difficult points there -- Ali.
VELSHI: Tom, that is one of the clearest explanations I've seen of that. We're going to need you a lot over the next couple days. So stay close. Tom Foreman.
Independent Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont was among the lawmakers who didn't agree to vote yes on the health care reform until just this weekend after negotiating something he wanted into the bill. And he wasn't the only senator to tweet the bill. Senator Ben Nelson, let's take a look at this, got somewhere before 45 and $100 million for something he wanted in the state of Nebraska, supplement to Medicaid over the next ten years.
Let's take it over to Louisiana. Senator Mary Landrieu received between $130 million for Louisiana also to help pay for Medicaid. Sanders obtained about $10 billion to fund community health centers, though he makes the point that those health centers are across America, not just in Vermont.
I spoke to Senator Sanders a short time ago and I asked him if all this deal making didn't make it seem as if votes were being bought.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: You're talking about a program that benefits people in 50 states. Actually it benefits my state less than most other states because we're far advanced in the community health center.
We save taxpayers' money because we keep people out of the emergency room and we give them primary health care. Now you tell me why that's such a bad deal. It has support from Republicans and has suspect from George W. Bush. John McCain supported a community health center.
VELSHI: But it brought your vote over because you're one of those people who said you wouldn't support this bill, particularly a bill that didn't have a public option. This doesn't have a public option.
SANDERS: This bill -- this bill -- you're right. This bill is not anywhere near as strong a bill as I would like to see. I want to see a Medicare for all, single-payer. I want to see a strong public option. I don't want to see taxes on working people's health benefits. I want see re-importation of prescription drugs so that we can lower the cost of prescription drugs.
VELSHI: So what happens? What happens if it wasn't this bill, if this wasn't this money that Vermont gets a piece of, what brought you over?
SANDERS: Well, let's get the facts right. Vermont gets a little. This is not a Vermont bill. This is a national bill.
Usually the criticism is somebody got all this money for his own state. This is for 50 states in America. Other states will benefit a lot more than Vermont.
What brought me over is that among other things this provision significantly improves the bill. It makes a bill worth supporting rather than killing the whole bill and allowing 45,000 people a year to continue to die.
VELSHI: Would you, Senator, go as far as to say that this is comprehensive health care reform or just a bill on the way there?
SANDERS: No. This is a bill heavily influenced by the insurance companies, the drug companies. We have no Republican support. Conservative Democrats made it into a much weaker bill. So I'm not going to be here to tell the American people this is a great bill. It ain't.
Does this bill do some really good things? Thirty million more people with insurance, insurance reform, doing away with pre-existing conditions, disease prevention, community health centers? Yes, it does a lot of good things for tens and tens of millions of Americans. On the other hand, it is a lot weaker than I would have preferred to see.
VELSHI: All right. For Americans who are wondering what their final bill is going to look like, there's some work to be done to reconcile this with the bill that passed the House. What do you think the end result -- what's going to change from the bill that you voted for?
SANDERS: Well, I tell you what I hope will change. I hope it becomes a better bill. I hope that instead of having a tax on health care benefits we move to progressive tax so we ask millionaires and billionaires to start paying their fair share. I would hope that we have a public option.
VELSHI: What do you say -- I know you said that what you argued for to get into this bill does help all Americans. What do you say to those people out there who for better or for worse are cynics about the process and felt that this deal-making waters down the bill and gave people pet projects in their own states?
SANDERS: Well, I think there's some validity in that concern. But, you know, what do you think goes on here every single day?
I mean, that is what the Democratic process is about, and sometimes it's pretty messy. But I would also tell you what also goes on here is the Wall Street and the banks and the insurance companies and the drug companies spend huge amounts of money to influence the political process. And we got to take a hard look at that and demand campaign finance reform to take the power away from some of these guys.
So you got a process in D.C. which is not great. It was probably worse under the Republicans, but it's not great right now, and we need to improve it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELSHI: Vermont independent Senator Bernie Sanders. We will be all over the story through the week. The last ten years, by the way, have not been very kind to Wall Street as we end the worst decade ever for stocks. We'll look at what you should do with your portfolio now.
And there are a lot of questions tonight following the sudden death of actress Brittany Murphy. We'll have the newest information from the investigation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: I can't be in this beautiful studio with this beautiful wall and not show you charts having to do with your money. You've probably heard about this already, but the last ten years is now said to be the worst ten years for your stocks in history. The worst decade, not the worst ten years, the worst actual decade that starts with a zero and ends with a nine.
Take a look at the S&P 500. If you investigated ten years ago, your return as of now would be off about 3.3 percent. You'll have 3.3 percent less money than you did. That's on an annualized basis every year. The actual that amount you'd have would be a lot less. If you invested a buck ten years ago, you'd have 75 cents right now.
If you investigated that money in bonds, you'd have seen an eight percent annualized return. So you would have done better on that. And if you invested in gold, you'd have a 15 percent annualized return. But that's not really the full story.
First of all, let me show you how this S&P 500 which is what you may have invested in has looked like over the last ten years. It's not been a straight line. I'm going to show it to you on the screen right here in a second unless I'm not going to, in which case I'm going to continue this conversation.
All right. It doesn't look like it's coming, so let's continue this conversation. Joining me now -- there you go, you've got it on the full screen there. Take a look at that.
That yellow line is what the S&P 500 has done in the last ten years. The red line is what it's done if you didn't ever do anything with any of your investments. In other words, this is to say that you invested a buck ten years ago and you didn't do anything with it. That's not how most people invest.
Joining me now is CNBC on-air editor Charlie Gasparino. He's the author of "Sellout: How Three Decades of Wall Street Greed and Government Mismanagement Destroyed the Global Financial System."
Charlie, good to see you.
CHARLES GASPARINO, AUTHOR, "THE SELLOUT": And led to that chart.
VELSHI: That's right. But, Charlie, the fact is it's to some degree a baseball stat?
GASPARINO: Absolutely. I mean, it's a little misleading because you sometimes -- by the way, if you use it -- what would it look like if you had a 20-year chart? And that's what --
VELSHI: Much better, because the previous ten years was a lot better.
GASPARINO: Oh, and that's the whole concept of investing. That's what they'll tell you.
Listen, if you put a dollar in 1933 and you kept it until now, you'd be a gazillionaire, right? The real problem with that is that people's investment decisions aren't done over 40 years, right? They're done over ten years.
VELSHI: Right.
GASPARINO: And that's why this is a very instructive chart. It shows that over ten year periods of time that people do take their money out, put their money in, and they actually do lose money in the stock market.
VELSHI: And here's the thing. If you're in your 30s, or maybe, you know, between 30 and 40, this may have been your first ten years of investing.
GASPARINO: Right.
VELSHI: And it may have been very ugly.
GASPARINO: Right.
VELSHI: Here's the thing. You're generally a pro market guy. You generally think markets are a good thing.
GASPARINO: Right.
VELSHI: But it's shaken your confidence.
GASPARINO: I was always a lousy investor in this sense. I'm a wimp. OK? I'm a wimp because I know so much about these markets. I know all the games that are played.
I know that the markets are in a sense -- this isn't pure capitalism. Do you think this Wall Street investment banks, it's one of the -- it's a point in my book. That it was just like, if they win, they win. If they lose, they lose. That's wrong. The government came in, bailed them out. Cheap money policy during those years.
I mean it's very interesting if you look at the history of Wall Street, just how many times they've gotten bailed out by the federal government. So I think the markets are somewhat -- you know, it's scary. I mean, if you're an average person, should you be in this? Should you be trading stocks?
VELSHI: I know you're not in the business of giving advice to people. But the bottom line if I'm watching this, if I've heard ten times today in the news that this was the worst decade for stocks, am I inclined to go and take my money out of stocks? Should I be?
GASPARINO: I would -- I'm wary about stocks. I mean, if you look at that chart, the bonds did pretty well, right? I you put your money in it with those treasury bonds or --
VELSHI: Yes.
GASPARINO: You know, think about it, eight percent with no risk, right?
VELSHI: Yes.
GASPARINO: The U.S. government is not going out -- is not going out of business anytime. That's not a bad bet.
VELSHI: We've had a good run in the stocks. The other concern, of course, you look at that gold thing. The 15 percent annualized returns, some people say.
GASPARINO: But that's skewed. That's recent history, right? That's the last two years when we're worrying about a financial implosion, creation of money, right? We had the fed lowering interest rates to zero. You had a rush to gold because at that point people were worrying about massive inflation. So that's a little skewed.
We may have a massive inflation, and then you probably do want to put your money in gold and take it out of bonds.
VELSHI: But for the moment you don't think that's a major concern?
If you're the average investor watching us, if you're going to invest in stocks, you want to be careful?
GASPARINO: If we knew what was going on, we wouldn't be here.
VELSHI: Charlie, good to see you. Thank you for being with us. Charlie Gasparino.
In Hollywood and beyond tonight, shock and sadness over the surprise death of actress Brittany Murphy. But what killed her?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Once again, Hollywood insiders are asking themselves what could possibly have killed a prominent star.
Tonight, the Los Angeles County coroner's office has completed an autopsy on the body of actress Brittany Murphy. No cause of death has been announced, and they say it will take several weeks to get results of toxicology tests. Murphy was only 32 years old when she died Sunday at her Hollywood home.
Joining us now, "Inside Edition" chief correspondent Jim Moret. He's the author of an upcoming inspirational book, "The Last Day of My Life." Also with us, Professor Lawrence Kobilinsky, a professor of forensic science at John J. University.
Gentlemen, thank you for being with us. Jim, a lot of rumors swirling around right now. Brittany Murphy may have had the flu, that she was vomiting before she died. That she was diabetic. What's the latest information that we actually know?
JIM MORET, CHIEF CORRESPONDENT, "INSIDE EDITION": Well, what we know from the coroner's office is that there are no signs of foul play, no indication of trauma and nothing to point to a specific cause of death. But as you indicated the toxicology reports are not going to be in for another four to six weeks. So we still don't really know anything other than the reports you mentioned about her family reporting she was feeling ill for a couple of days, that she was vomiting. We don't really know what killed her.
We do know, however, the last time we saw her on December 3rd she looked very thin and a lot of people speculating that that could have been one of the causes. And also the coroner took a number of prescription medications from her house and presumably they'll be checking that medication against what may or may not have been in her system.
VELSHI: Dr. Kobilinsky, you know, one might think this is voyeuristic, but there are reasons why it's important to know why these things happened. I think a lot learned something from Michael Jackson death, for instance, about prescription drugs.
Knowing what we know now, first of all, is it normal that the toxicology results won't be in for weeks so they won't give you us any more information about the cause of death? And what do you make of what Jim just said.
LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, Ali, first of all, it is perfectly appropriate for the toxicology tests to take four to six weeks. There's nothing strange about that. The autopsy is not complete until we have that information because that could give us a hint as to what the problem was.
But, you know, this is a diagnosis by excluding the other diagnoses, and quite frankly we hear about vomiting, we hear about, you know, her general loss of weight. It's quite possible that we're dealing with a swine flu situation. And again, you know, she's 32, she's seemingly healthy but she has diabetes. The weight loss may mean that she's immunocompromised. It's quite possible that H1N1 could be the cause, but we will not know until we have the tox report.
VELSHI: Jim, let's just look at some video of what appears to be Brittany Murphy's -- what we think was Brittany Murphy's final interview. It was in early December at a movie premiere. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How is it filming a dark thriller?
BRITTANY MURPHY, ACTRESS: I was very drawn to this because of its quality and the short film that was made before we were able to make the full-length feature. I was excited to be part of the full- length. I really enjoyed the short film very much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: Jim, many of us don't follow Brittany Murphy closely enough to know whether to make anything out of that video clip. Did she look unusually thin? Was she carrying herself in a way that she normally would in an interview?
MORET: Well, she did look thin to those people who know her, and also about a month ago she was fired from a movie she was working on. Her reps say it was creative differences, but reports indicated that she was according to the producer or director problematic on the set, that her husband was on the set constantly and he was a problem. And there have been rumors plaguing her for years about drug use and anorexia.
Now, whether or not they're accurate, they're relevant because they did affect her career. And I talked to a producer who hired her for a movie she was to be working on in just a couple of weeks. And he almost fired her because of those rumors. She called him personally and based on that conversation he kept her on the movie which is now up in the air. But, you know, she had developed a reputation, and she was trying very hard to regain her career. But she had been called by some producers a space cadet because she seemed spacey. Whether she was anorexic, I don't know. But theoretically, the toxic reports will show that.
VELSHI: Dr. Kobilinsky, take a look at these pictures from her early days as an actress compared to on the right, the recent interview. Now, in fairness, that picture on the left was 15 years ago. I don't know if that's -- I think I've lost or gained that much weight in 15 years.
KOBILINSKY: Yes. There's no question that there's a large weight drop, and it could be related to diabetes. We don't know whether she was dealing well with blood sugars. There could be other factors here that we aren't aware of. I'm sure that anatomically the coroner was not able to find anything obvious.
VELSHI: Could she have just died at age 32 from what was initially reported to be a heart attack? Could it be nothing that we can figure out?
KOBILINSKY: Certainly. There are reasons why people go into arrhythmias. They leave no telltale signs during autopsy.
VELSHI: Yes.
KOBILINSKY: It's a diagnosis by excluding everything else.
VELSHI: It may take some more time before it's settled.
KOBILINSKY: It may take six weeks, maybe longer.
VELSHI: All right. Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, thank you very much for being with us. Jim Moret, thanks to you as well.
Coming up next, tonight's "Breakout" story. Why did a Washington, D.C. detective pull out his gun during of all things a snowball fight?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Tonight, a Washington, D.C. police detective is under investigation for drawing his gun after his Hummer drew fire from snowballs. Really. And the confrontation was caught on video from just about every angle actually. It's tonight's breakout story. Here's CNN's Jeanne Moos.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From Times Square to a British talk show --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Happy Christmas.
MOOS: Snowballs flew. But in Washington, D.C., they flew until a detective drew his gun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do not shoot anyone over snowballs.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We wish you a merry Christmas. We wish you a merry Christmas.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get his license plate number.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We wish you a merry Christmas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your buddy over there drew a handgun on a snowball fight.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And a happy New Year.
MOOS: It started happily enough.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whoa.
MOOS: Around 200 young people firing snowballs at each other across Washington's 14th Street. An invitation to D.C.'s snowpocalpyse on Facebook and Twitter attracted the snowballers. Bring your mittens and killer instinct. No mention of a gun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's got a gun?
MOOS: A detective's Hummer got smacked by snowballs and out he came drawing his gun. In no time, pictures were popping up on YouTube and Flicker. And to think just moments before the snowballers had rescued a police car, but things turned tense after the detective pulled his gun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not on the curb.
MOOS: For video artist Robin Bell who was taking this video.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's kind of freaky.
MOOS: At first no one realized he was a detective so someone called 911 reporting a man with a gun at a snowball fight. No wonder uniformed officers arrived with their guns drawn.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And your gun's out? You (expletive deleted) kidding me?
MOOS: The uniformed officers looked for the man with the gun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's got a holster. He's got a gun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's got a gun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's a detective.
DETECTIVE BAYLOR: My name is Detective Baylor, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Detective Baylor, OK, pulling a gun at a snowball fight.
BAYLOR: Yes I did because I got hit with snowballs.
MOOS: Now he's being hit with an internal affairs investigation. He's been put on desk duty, though he has his defenders.
(on camera): They say you shouldn't have a snowball fight in a major intersection. That it's no picnic driving along, getting pelted by snowballs. Scary.
(voice-over): Back at the snowball fight, the crowd broke into a chant.
ALL: You don't bring a gun to a snowball fight.
BAYLOR: Throw another snowball. Throw another snowball.
SINGERS: Dashing through the snow.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Expletive deleted) you pig.
SINGERS: Laughing all the way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. You can go on with your snowball fight, all right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm sorry. I'm afraid I'm going to get shot by the police.
MOOS: Jeanne Moos, CNN --
ALL: Don't bring a gun to a snowball fight.
MOOS: New York. (END VIDEOTAPE)
VELSHI: That is why we love Jeanne Moos.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starts in just a few minutes with Tiger Woods in his own words. But just ahead, Russian Prime Minister Putin shows off why he's a black belt.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Welcome back. More must see news happening right now. HLN's Mike Galanos tonight with "The Download" -- Mike.
MIKE GALANOS, HLN PRIME NEWS: Hey, Ali. First off, after several notorious incidents where hundreds of passengers were trapped for hours on airport runways, the Department of Transportation today announced a new rule prohibiting U.S. airlines from sitting on the tarmac for more than three hours with travelers aboard. If they don't let everyone off after that time, they can be fined nearly $28,000 per person.
A little math. One hundred twenty people on a plane? That's a $3.3 million fine. Airlines going to think twice. Travelers probably cheering.
And folks cheering this. The FBI says the violent crime rate dropped significantly in the first half of this year. Murder, manslaughter down 10 percent, property crimes down six percent, car theft down 19 percent. Overall, the crime rate hasn't been en this low since the 1960s. Some experts are surprised considering the nation's high unemployment levels.
Well, the first for any city in Latin America. Today, Mexico City lawmakers voted to legalize same-sex marriage, a change giving homosexual couples rights that include being able to adopt children. The city's leftist mayor is expected to sign the measure into law.
And this, Ali you mentioned it. Russian leader black belt Vladimir Putin kicking up some good publicity. Putin now with members Russia's national judo team. He's a black belt in judo. And after throwing squad members around half his age, he offered up his services saying if you need help include me. A little know fact, Ali. He's got his own judo DVD. It's called "Let's Learn Judo with Vladimir Putin."
Who's arguing?
VELSHI: We got some pictures of the U.S. president doing some tough guy stuff today.
GALANOS: Getting his shot.
VELSHI: Getting his H1N1 shot.
GALANOS: There you go.
VELSHI: Different than judo.
GALANOS: Rolling up the sleeve.
VELSHI: Yes.
GALANOS: Showing off the guns. There you go.
VELSHI: Showing off the guns. That's exactly it.
Mike, good to talk to you. Always good to see you.
GALANOS: Ali, take care.
VELSHI: Mike Galanos of "HLN." You can watch him because he always gives you the news.
All right. That's all for now. Thank you for joining us.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.
