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Campbell Brown

President Obama Meets With Republicans

Aired January 29, 2010 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everybody.

A most unusual exchange that has the political word buzzing tonight. The cameras were rolling for all of it. President Obama traveled today to the House Republicans' retreat in Baltimore, Maryland, where he then took questions from his toughest Republican critics, really extraordinary political theater, just fascinating to watch.

And we are going to give you a chance to see most of it throughout this hour. You are going to hear a lot of analysis as well.

But, first, take a look now, the president with some of the House Republicans from earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know what they say, keep your friends close, but visit the Republican Caucus every few months.

(LAUGHTER)

REP. JEB HENSARLING (R), TEXAS: Will that new budget, like your old budget, triple the national debt and continue to take us down the path of increasing the cost of government?

OBAMA: The whole question was structured as a talking point for running a campaign.

REP. PETER ROSKAM (R), ILLINOIS: There really is this dynamic of, frankly, being shut out.

OBAMA: You've given yourselves very little room to work in a bipartisan fashion because what you've been telling your constituents is, "This guy's doing all kinds of crazy stuff that's going to destroy America."

How some of you went after this bill, you'd think that this thing was some Bolshevik plot.

REP. JASON CHAFFETZ (R), UTAH: I can look you in the eye and tell you, we have not been obstructionist.

OBAMA: I think both sides can take some blame for a sour climate on Capitol Hill.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Really fascinating exchange, as you can see. And that was just a little bit of it. We are going to be playing you extended portions of what happened today throughout this hour.

But let's get some general reaction first.

CNN senior political correspondent Candy Crowley joining us, along with our senior political analyst David Gergen, and CNN political analyst Jeffrey Toobin here with me in New York as well.

David, right off the top, give me your impressions watching today.

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Oh, it was so welcome. Good for the Republicans for inviting him, good for the president to accept, and then asked that it be opened up to cameras last night, and the Republicans said yes.

I think Americans just hunger for these kind of exchanges. It was robust. And it revealed it's about more than simply personalities. It's about more than recalcitrance or obstructionism. There are deep philosophical divides between the Republicans and the Democrats.

And they were surfaced today. And I think they gave people a better sense of why Washington, which is dismissed so angrily by many, actually reflects the country itself and how many divisions we have in the country about how to proceed.

Everybody wants to end unemployment, the great recession and get people back to work, but there are very different visions of how to get there.

BROWN: Candy, a pretty savvy move, too, to ask that cameras be allowed in for this. What was the strategy? What was the thinking there from the White House?

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, because he's so good at it. And no matter what you say, one man standing at the podium with presidential seal in front of it against hundreds of Republicans or 100-plus Republicans still is no contest. It goes the president's way.

The White House would not have asked for this to be open, save two things. First, he did say he wanted things to be more transparent. Very interestingly, the first transparent thing is this exchange with Republicans.

The president is very, very good at this. And he's in an office that they don't call the bully pulpit for nothing. And I don't want any physics majors to write me, because I'm going to mess this up when I explain it, but there's something called the uncertainty principle. And that is that an experiment watched is an experiment changed. The cameras change things. So, we are still seeing some of the theater of Washington, but perhaps we are seeing a little bit more of the reality, and that can't be all bad.

BROWN: Ah, a good way of putting it, Candy.

Jeffrey, not all a sort of kumbaya moment. It got heated, it got a little testy at certain moments. Does anything actually come of this, beyond today, beyond what Candy just said, that we all got to witness it?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think this has been the worst month of the Obama presidency, when you look at what happened in Massachusetts, when you look at what's happened to health care.

Today, the technical legal term for what Barack Obama did today was a butt-kicking. I mean, it was extraordinary. I thought he dominated that room. I thought he made a lot of those congressmen look foolish. It was an extraordinarily -- I don't know how often...

BROWN: Really? Because David was giving the Republicans their due.

TOOBIN: Really? Well, David is a fair guy. He happens to be incorrect here, but that's OK.

(LAUGHTER)

TOOBIN: I just thought it was an incredible performance. And I thought he wiped the floor with them.

BROWN: David, neither side really did, though, give sort of any ground on policy differences. I mean, do you see, again, anything coming out of this, beyond sort of this moment that we got to witness, any recommitment to working together come Monday?

GERGEN: Well, let me put that aside just for a second, Campbell, because I first want to disagree with Jeffrey Toobin, respectfully.

And that is, I thought, Jeffrey, this was much more like a press conference, in which the president was given the role of having the longer answers, so he could make -- and he made some very good answers, but the Republicans were like the press.

They were pointing to a lot of inconsistencies in the arguments, to points that are not usually well considered in the mainstream media, and you have to go to conservative blogs to see some of these points made. And, you know, I thought, in that sense, it gave both sides a chance to air their perspectives. And you could make a judgment about which one you thought was more persuasive.

But as to -- Campbell, as to your other question about, is this going to lead anywhere, not immediately, but the fact that they're going to have monthly meetings, and I think it does say to the Republicans, look, if he offers some things, you are going to have to take them. But it also says to him, they have got some ideas here, and if you're really serious about bipartisanship, you have got to incorporate them, whether it be in a serious way, malpractice on health care, or on energy, as he did the other night, something about nuclear power and offshore drilling.

So, these are -- it was a very healthy exchange. I thought both sides gained with their own base.

BROWN: All right.

Stand by, everybody, because I did mention earlier that I do think you have to see sort of this extended play-out in terms of many of these moments. And we're going to show you that, again, of the president facing off with House Republicans, let you hear some of these exchanges.

As we also said, GOP unleashed a lot of pent-up angst and the president there trying to keep his cool. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE PENCE (R), INDIANA: And we will have one more after that, if your time permits, Mr. President.

OBAMA: You know, I'm having fun.

PENCE: OK.

(LAUGHTER)

OBAMA: This is great.

PENCE: So are we.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: When we come back, some of the very Republicans who did take on the president tonight, they're going to join us as well. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Tonight, we are bringing you special expanded coverage of today's face-off between President Obama and House Republicans. It really was a pretty extraordinary exchange, and we think it's important for you to see it for yourself in detail.

And listen to this portion. This is with Georgia Congressman Tom Price, who is a doctor, and almost seemed to take personal offense at the notion that Republicans have not brought anything to the table in the health care debate. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PENCE: Dr. Tom Price from Georgia?

And then we'll have one more after that, if your time permits, Mr. President.

OBAMA: You know, I'm having fun.

PENCE: OK.

(LAUGHTER)

OBAMA: This is great.

(APPLAUSE)

PENCE: So are we.

Tom Price, Georgia?

REP. TOM PRICE (R), GEORGIA: Thank you.

I want to stick on -- on the general topic of health care, but ask a very specific question.

You have repeatedly said, most recently at -- at the State of the Union, that Republicans have offered no ideas and no solutions, in spite of the fact...

OBAMA: I don't think I said that.

What I said was within the context of health care -- I remember that speech pretty well. It was only two days ago.

(LAUGHTER)

OBAMA: I said I would welcome ideas that you might provide.

I didn't say that you haven't provided ideas. I said I would welcome those ideas that you'll provide.

PRICE: Mr. President, multiple times from your administration there have come statements that Republicans have no ideas and no solutions, in spite of that fact that we've offered, as demonstrated today, positive solutions to all of the challenges we face, including energy and the economy and health care.

Specifically, in the area of health care, this bill, H. R. 3400, that has more cosponsors than any health care bill in the House. It is a bill that would provide health coverage for all Americans, would correct the significant insurance challenges of portability and preexisting, would solve the lawsuit abuse issue, which isn't addressed significantly in the other proposals that went through the House and the Senate, would write into law that medical decisions are made between patients and families and doctors, and does all of that without raising taxes by a penny.

But my specific question is, what should we tell our constituents who know that Republicans have offered positive solutions to the challenges that Americans face and yet continue to hear out of the administration that we've offered nothing?

Tell them I -- look, I have to say, that on the -- let's just take the health care debate. And it's probably not constructive for us to try to debate a particular bill. This isn't the venue to do it.

But if you say that we can offer coverage for all Americans and it won't cost a penny, that's just not true. You can't structure a bill where suddenly 30 million people have coverage and it costs nothing.

If...

(CROSSTALK)

PRICE: ... and I understand that we're not interested in debating this bill.

OBAMA: Sir...

PRICE: But what should we tell our constituents, who know that we've offered these solutions, and yet hear from the administration that -- that we have offered nothing?

OBAMA: Let me -- I'm using this as a specific example, so let me answer your question. You asked a question, I want to answer it.

OBAMA: It's not enough, if you say, for example, that we've offered a health care plan and I look up -- this is just under the section that you've just provided me -- or the book that you've just provided me, "Summary of GOP Health Care Reform Bill."

"The GOP plan will lower health care premiums for American families and small businesses, addressing America's number one priority for health reform."

I mean, that's an idea that we all embrace. But specifically it's got to work. I mean, there's got to be a mechanism in these plans that I can go to an independent health care expert and say, "Is this something that will actually work or is it boilerplate?"

So I am absolutely committed to working with you on these issues. But it can't just be political assertions that aren't substantiated when it comes to the actual details of policy, because otherwise we're going to be selling the American people a bill of goods.

I mean, the easiest thing for me to do on the health care debate would have been to tell people that, "What you're going to get is guaranteed health insurance, lower your costs, all the insurance reforms, we're going to lower the cost of Medicare and Medicaid, and it won't cost anybody anything." That's great politics. It's just not true.

So there's got to be some test of realism in any of these proposals, mine included. I have got to hold myself accountable, and I guarantee the American people will hold themselves -- will hold me accountable if what I'm selling doesn't actually deliver.

PENCE: Mr. President, a point of clarification.

What's in the "Better Solutions" book are all the legislative proposals that were offered...

OBAMA: Oh, I understand. I have actually read your bills.

PENCE: ... throughout 2009.

OBAMA: I understand.

PENCE: And so rest assured the summary document that you received is backed up by precisely the kind of detailed legislation that Speaker Pelosi and your administration have been busy ignoring for 12 months.

OBAMA: Well, Mike, hold on, hold on a second.

(APPLAUSE)

OBAMA: No, no, no, no, no. Hold on a second guys.

(APPLAUSE)

OBAMA: You know, Mike, I have read your legislation. I mean, I take a look at this stuff. And the good ideas we take.

But here -- here's the thing, here's the thing, I guess, that all of us have to be mindful of. It can't be all-or-nothing one way or the other, all right?

If there's uniform opposition because the Republican caucus doesn't get 100 percent or 80 percent of what you want, then it's going to be hard to get a deal done. That's because that's not how democracy works.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So, what grade does the president get from Republicans for today's performance? Well, Mike Pence, who you just heard there, the number-three Republican in the House, will be here to tell us, coming up right out of the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: The square-off between the president and Republicans today wasn't exactly a meeting of the minds, but the nasty tone that has overwhelmed the political discourse in Washington did seem at times to take a backseat in Baltimore.

And we're going to play a whole lot more of the event for you throughout this hour, so that you can hear it for yourself.

But, first, Indiana Congressman Mike Pence is the number-three man in the House Republican leadership. Welcome to you, Congressman.

PENCE: Thanks, Campbell.

BROWN: As we have heard right there before the break, you did get into it a little bit today with the president over whether Republicans really are offering specific solutions.

You say you are, that Democrats are ignoring them. Did you hear from him a kind of willingness to work with you on some of your ideas?

PENCE: Well, we certainly heard that.

But, frankly, Campbell, we have heard that from this president for some time. I think what was most welcome was that I think, for the first time with a national audience, House Republicans were able to put to rest the suggestion that we're the party of no ideas.

I mean, that blue book that the president was handed was really a compilation of all the bills that Republicans offered during the last 12 months, everything from our economic stimulus bill, to our detailed budget, to our energy independence bill, to our health care bill that focuses on lowering the cost of health insurance.

And, you know, the president repeatedly acknowledged that, in fact, Republicans have been offering positive, substantive alternative. And, you know, that represents, I think, significant progress in this administration, and, frankly, in Washington Democrats' posture over the last year.

BROWN: But what he -- true, fair points made there, but I think what he was saying a lot of was that the rhetoric is what's getting in the way, in large part, you know, the president saying Republicans can't say that they're willing to work with him, and then go out and say that the plans he's introducing are Bolshevik and that he's trying to destroy America.

Do you think he has a point there?

PENCE: Well, I have never heard a Republican refer to the government takeover of health care as Bolshevik. I don't know where the president got that line.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Well, I think you know what he means. I think it's come pretty close to that at times, wouldn't you admit? There's certainly been references to communism.

(CROSSTALK)

PENCE: Yes. Well -- well, I don't know about communism, Campbell.

I think there's a real concern that what was moving through the House and the Senate, concern among the American people and certainly among House Republicans, that this really did represent a government takeover of health care that would ultimately put us on a pathway toward single-payer, socialized medicine.

These are fundamental differences of philosophy. But, really, I want to say again I think the real progress here was that for the last year -- and I think PolitiFact just confirmed this online, that, for the last year, the administration and Democrats on Capitol Hill have been saying that Republicans have not offered alternatives, we have not offered any substantive ideas to the debate.

And as we were able to demonstrate today and the president conceded today -- folks can go to GOP.gov, and read up the summaries -- Republicans have been offering ideas built on the principles of limited government and free-market economics.

And maybe, just maybe, that's the starting point for a much more honest debate and an honest exchange in the Congress.

BROWN: Again, and I concede that point. You definitely -- you know, a chance to air your ideas, to get them out there is certainly crucial.

But I just want to get back to what I was saying before about the rhetoric. And I will give you an example of what the president was talking about, you saying, you told the president today that he's pursuing policies that nobody's promoted since Jimmy Carter. And you're talking about his idea of a $5,000 tax cut on small businesses to hire new workers.

That sounds like an idea that could be reasonably debated by both sides. You may disagree with him, philosophically, as you say, but to jump into it and sort of make these comparisons to Jimmy Carter, you know, the comparisons to socialism, without getting into the specifics of what the philosophical differences are, can be damaging to having a real debate.

Is that a fair point?

PENCE: Yes, you know, I think, in some cases, it's a fair point, but with regard to the tax credit the president unveiled, a hiring tax credit the president unveiled in Baltimore here today, Campbell, the last time the government did that was when President Jimmy Carter did it.

And it was in place for a couple of years. It was an abject failure. It had all kinds of perverse incentives. It is reported there were businesses that actually fired people, so that they could hire them back and get the tax credit.

Other businesses put off hiring to wait until the tax credit took effect. It's one of the failed economic policies of the Carter administration.

I did cite another Democrat president, though, when I asked the president, would he be willing to, you know, consider or entertain an across-the-board tax cut, like President John F. Kennedy passed in the 1960s and President Reagan passed in the 1980s.

And, you know, we had a lively exchange about that early on, but, you know, I didn't mean the Jimmy Carter reference as a pejorative. I meant it as a historical reference point. And I don't think we need the economic policies of the malaise of the Carter era administration during the worst recession in 25 years.

BROWN: Do you think anything truly, in terms of -- I know what you said. You were able to get your ideas out on the table, but do you think anything comes of this in terms of real -- the real hard work, I guess, that has to be done by both sides?

On Monday, does anything happen, or was this just sort of a nice kumbaya moment that everybody looks back on?

PENCE: Well, you know, if you look at some of these clips, there wasn't a lot of kumbaya in the room. This was a pretty serious, pretty substantive, albeit a respectful environment between House Republicans and the president.

But I think you ask, is this going to change anything? I think that really is up to the president and, frankly, up to the Democrats in Congress.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: But not at all up to Republicans?

That's what -- this is what I'm trying to get at, is that the president took a lot of responsibility for mistakes on his side.

(CROSSTALK)

PENCE: Yes. Yes, I hear you.

BROWN: But I have yet to hear you guys take any responsibility, certainly in what you have just said, for playing some of the same games. Don't you think there has to be some give and take from both sides?

PENCE: Well, now, wait a minute, Campbell. What we have been doing is offering substantive alternatives built on conservative principles. And what the administration and Democrats in Congress have done is lock the door, reflexively say no, and then say we have no ideas.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: So you haven't engaged in politics at all? You have not engaged in politics at all? You have done nothing but offer substantive alternative ideas? Come on.

(CROSSTALK)

PENCE: Campbell, I really do believe, I really do believe -- now, to say people in Washington don't do politics is, you know, like -- I don't know what the better analogy is. Right.

But, on this point, Republicans have, in good faith, offered economic stimulus. We have offered a health care reform bill, an energy bill. We have offered a substantive budget that puts our fiscal house in order.

And, again, Democrats and this administration for the last year have not only said no to every Republican idea, but they have said, we have no ideas.

Now, the fact that the titular head of the Democratic Party and the president of the United States has acknowledged repeatedly today that Republicans have been offering substantive alternatives on all these issues, maybe, just maybe, their reflexive no will relent and we can have some discussions and debates and pursue policies in the best interests of the American people.

BROWN: All right, Congressman. Well, I think we all hope so. We would sure like to see it happen.

Appreciate it, Congressman Mike Pence, joining us tonight.

A lot more ahead. We're going to be playing more specifics from this exchange that we have been talking about. We will have more analysis from our panel as well when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Tonight, we are devoting our full hour to President Obama's, at times, heated question-and-answer session with House Republicans, really too important to reduce to mere sound bites. We're playing extended exchanges for you, giving both sides a fair shake.

Today, one Republican after another blamed the president and congressional Democrats for shutting them out of government.

And listen to this. This is a question from Congressman Mike (sic) Roskam of Illinois. He served with the president in the Illinois state legislature and remembers a very different Barack Obama.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROSKAM: Mr. President, I heard echoes today of the state senator that I served with in Springfield, and there was an attribute and a characteristic that you had that I think served you well there. You took on some very controversial subjects, death penalty reform. I -- you and I...

OBAMA: We worked on it together.

ROSKAM: ... negotiated on.

OBAMA: Yes.

ROSKAM: You took on ethics reform. You took on some big things.

One of the keys was you rolled your sleeves up, you worked with the other party, and ultimately you were able to make the deal.

Now, here's an observation.

Over the past year, in my view, that attribute hasn't been in full bloom. And by that I mean, you've gotten the subtext of House Republicans that sincerely want to come and be a part of this national conversation toward solutions, but they have really been stiff-armed by Speaker Pelosi.

Now, I know you're not in charge of that chamber, but there really is this dynamic of, frankly, being shut out.

OBAMA: Well, first of all, Peter and I did work together effectively on a whole host of issues. One of our former colleagues is right now running for governor on the Republican side in Illinois. In the Republican primary, of course, they're running ads, of him saying nice things about me. Poor guy. Although, that's -- that's one of the points that I made earlier.

I mean, we've got to be careful about what we say about each other sometimes because it boxes us in in ways that makes it difficult for us to work together, because our constituents start believing us. They don't know sometimes this is just politics, what you guys, you know -- or folks on my side do sometimes. So just a tone of civility instead of slash and burn would be helpful.

The problem we have, sometimes, is the media that responds only to slash and burn style politics. You don't get a lot of credit if I say, you know, I think Paul Ryan is a pretty sincere guy and has a beautiful family. Nobody's going to run that in the newspapers, right?

Yes. And by the way, in case he's going to get a Republican challenge, I didn't mean it. Don't want to hurt you, man.

But on the specifics, I think both sides can take some blame for a sour climate on Capitol Hill. What I can do, maybe, to help is to try to bring Republican and Democratic leadership together on a more regular basis with me. That's, I think, a failure on my part, is to try to foster better communications, even if there's disagreement. And I will try to see if we can do more of that this year.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And after today, we'll see if that really happens. Our political panel back with us once again. Candy Crowley, David Gergen and Jeffrey Toobin.

And we do have some firsthand reaction. We want to get some firsthand reaction. CNN congressional correspondent Brianna Keilar was there in the room for all of this drama today. And, Brianna, I just wanted to hear from you what it was like in that room, what the mood was like?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: First off, Campbell, there was so much anticipation, because it's not unheard of that a president will talk to the opposition party at one of these retreats, but it is absolutely unheard of that cameras are allowed to capture it. This is one of those momentums where, as a reporter, we say, I wish I could be a fly on the wall for that. And we had to kind of have to blink to say, are we really going to be able to see this?

It was the White House that asked Republicans if they could open this up to the press. And I think there was a little nervousness on the part of some Republicans. Darrell Issa, one Republican said that we were, the reporters were, quote, "a studio audience for his spin." But I think in the end, the conference chairman, Mike Pence, was able to control the message somewhat by hand-picking who was going to ask the questions instead of President Obama doing it. And in the end, it seemed like Republicans were relieved. They thought it went pretty well, Campbell.

BROWN: So that said, do you think they would have done it again if they had it to do over?

KEILAR: I have to tell you, they are jazzed. They think that they got a really big win here, because they've been pushing back on this label of being the party of no, that Democrats have really been sticking to them. And I can't tell you, over the last year, almost, it seems any press conference, especially on health care, that I go to, I hear them say over and over, we aren't the party of no, we're the party of better solutions. And now with President Obama having said today, I read your legislation, I saw your proposal, they think that they've been able to maybe penetrate with that point and they think this was a win for them.

BROWN: All right, Brianna Keilar, who, again, was there in the room today, as all of this was happening, Brianna, thanks so much.

Let me turn to Candy now. And, Candy, in that exchange we played a moment ago, you heard Congressman Roskam saying congressional Democrats are the ones here, in their view, who are causing the gridlock, who are shutting Republicans out. And their message to the president was, those are your guys. You've got to do something about this. What is he going to do it about it, or what can he do about it? Because, you know, certainly, it's a two-way street.

CROWLEY: He can lean on them. And I think the problem was posed correctly. Certainly, the president has not done everything he could to bring Republicans to the White House. He, himself, admits that. But the bigger problem is where they wrote the legislation, they didn't write it in the White House, remember?

The president let the stimulus legislation and the health care legislation be written up on Capitol Hill. And the people writing that legislation were Democrats. This was particularly true on the House side, where they really don't need Republicans. The Senate side is a little different mix. It was particularly true on the House side, very bitter feelings that all they were allowed to do was vote. That none of their ideas were ever taken seriously. So the president can do precisely what he said he could do, which is bring Democratic and Republican leaders to the White House with him to try to sort of bring them together. And privately, he can lean on them and say, we can win by this. Because, remember, the Democrats are in charge, so naturally, anything that gets passed is going to be to the Democrats' credit. So politically, he could argue, it might be a smart move to bring in some of these Republicans and some of the Republican ideas.

BROWN: But, David, you do have Democrats who are basically telling the president, you know, we do have the run of the White House, the run of Congress. I mean, forget about these guys. Why are you wasting your time? We can still push our agenda through. How do you respond to that?

GERGEN: Well, that has been the view in the Democratic Party, especially in the House, where you can't control, more easily, if you've got a simple majority, you can run things and ram things through. And Nancy Pelosi is a very strong speaker. You know, she's a tough leader and believes very firmly in Democratic liberal principles. So it's been hard.

But you know, I think that the president can do exactly what Candy said, lean on Nancy Pelosi and Steny Hoyer and others in the leadership, bring more people in, maybe have more of these press conference or parliamentary type proceedings that we had here today. But there's also something very fundamental here, Campbell. If you're really going to maybe bipartisan, if you start with the proposition we're going to have a fundamentally Democratic bill, a Democratic majority, in effect, let's see if we can pick off a handful of Republicans by offering a bit, a little bit of this, a little bit of that. That's a very different approach then from saying, let's sit down and figure out together with the other party, what are the best ideas for trying to solve this particular public policy problem. And the Republicans, I think, have a point in saying that...

BROWN: Right.

GERGEN: ... just as in Republican years, they started to do things from the conservative side in, that the Democrats do things, write bills from the left in and then go try pick off a few people.

BROWN: Right.

GERGEN: And that isn't true bipartisanship.

TOOBIN: Well, I'm not sure, David. They haven't tried that. I mean, remember, Obama lost the entire summer, because Max Baucus, the Democratic chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, was begging the so-called "gang of six," three Republicans and three Democrats, to make a bipartisan bill. And he took lots of suggestions from the three Republicans on that, but then he never -- but then they wound up rejecting the whole legislation.

GERGEN: There is no significant major Republican idea in these bills.

BROWN: OK.

GERGEN: You know, malpractice is not in there. You health savings accounts were devastated. Medicare Advantage was devastated. It's hard to say there's any significant Republican ideas that's been incorporated into those two bills.

BROWN: All right. Stand by, guys. You're coming back. And when we come back, you are going to hear from the freshman Republican who called out the president on a string of broken campaign promises. His confrontation with the commander-in-chief coming up next.

And also go to CNN.com/Campbell. We want to hear from you. We'll be back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Welcome back to our special coverage of today's face-off between President Obama and House Republicans. Not all the jousting was a simple matter of policy disagreements. Freshman Congressman Jason Chaffetz flat-out accused the president of failing to deliver on his promise to change the way Washington does business. Congressman Chaffetz will be here live with me in just a few minutes. But first, listen to his challenge to the president earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHAFFETZ: I'm one of 22 House freshmen. We didn't create this mess, but we are here to help clean it up. And I want to talk a lot about this deficit of trust.

There's some things that have happened that I would appreciate your perspective on, because I can look you in the eye and tell you, we have not been obstructionists. The Democrats have the House and Senate and the presidency. When you stood up before the American people multiple times and said you would broadcast the health care debates on C-SPAN, you didn't. I was disappointed and I think a lot of Americans were disappointed.

You said you weren't going to allow lobbyists in the senior-most positions within your administration, and yet you did. I applauded you when you said it and disappointed when you didn't. You said you'd go line by line through the health care debate, or r through the health care bill. And there were six of us, including Dr. Phil Roe, who sent you a letter and said, we would like to take you up on that offer, we'd like to come. We never heard a letter, we never got a call. We were never involved in any of those discussions.

And when you said in the House of Representatives that you were going to tackle earmarks, in fact, you didn't want to have any earmarks in any of your bills, I jumped up out of my seat and applauded you. But it didn't happen. More importantly, I want to talk about moving forward, but if we can address --

OBAMA: Well, how about --

CHAFFETZ: That I would certainly appreciate. OBAMA: That was a long list. So let me respond.

Look, the truth of the matter is that if you look at the health care process, just over the course of the year, overwhelmingly, the majority of it actually was on C-SPAN, because it was taking place in congressional hearings in which you guys were participating. I mean, how many committees were there that helped to shape this bill? Countless hearings took place.

Now, I kicked it off, by the way, with a meeting with many of you, including your key leadership. What is true, there's no doubt about it, is that once it got through the committee process and there were now a series of meetings taking place all over the capital trying to figure out how to get the thing together, that was a messy process. And I take responsibility for not having structured it in a way where it was all taking place in one place that could be filmed.

Now, the challenge, I guess, I would have for you, as a freshman, is, what are you doing inside your caucus to make sure that I'm not the only guy who's responsible for this stuff so that we're working together? Because this is going to be a process.

You know, when we talk about earmarks, I think all of us are willing to acknowledge that some of them are perfectly defensible, good projects. It's just they haven't gone through the regular appropriations process in the full light of day. So one place to start is to make sure that they are at least transparent. That everybody knows what's there before we move forward.

In terms of lobbyists, I can stand here unequivocally and say that there has not been an administration who was tougher on making sure that lobbyists weren't participating in the administration than any administration that's come before us.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And we will see if Congressman Jason Chaffetz is satisfied with the response he got from the president. He's joining us live, when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Just before the break, you heard a freshman congressman challenge the president of the United States for breaking his promises on a number of fronts and that Congressman is Jason Chaffetz of Utah, who's joining us now live.

Congressman, you challenged the president on his promises on transparency, on bipartisanship, on earmarks. Were you satisfied with his response to you, that we just played for folks right before the break? And also, how do you meet his challenge to Republicans of meeting him halfway on many of these issues?

CHAFFETZ: It was a great honor. I'm proud of the fact that the Republican leadership invited the president and glad that the president came and that it was open and transparent for everyone. I wish health care debate and everything else was just like this. It's what the American people want, it's what they deserve.

As far as -- and so I was very satisfied with the president. I think there's still some questions. My job, role and responsibility is to help hold the president accountable. I'm not there to be the president's cheerleader. And I will continue to do that.

Now as a freshman within my own party, I can look the president in the eye and the American people, and more importantly, the people of Utah in the eye and say, you know what, I've held my own party to the same standards. I railed against a Republican who asked for a $250,000 earmark for a farmers market in Monroe County, Kentucky. That's within my own party. And so I'd like to think that I'm driven by principle and am holding my own party at the same standard that I want to hold the Democrats.

BROWN: Let me be frank, though, because Republicans have been quite successful, politically speaking, by opposing the president. And you're up for re-election, I know. Your district, I read, is ranked among the top ten most Republican districts in the United States, so is it really in your interest to work with the president?

CHAFFETZ: Yes, because people are out there suffering. I don't care if you come from the most conservative or the most liberal district. The country as a whole is suffering. Of course. The people of Utah are very conservative.

BROWN: Oh shoot, congressman, are you there? Representative Jason Chaffetz. Unfortunately, we had a satellite problem and we won't get to hear the rest of his answer. We apologize to the congressman and to you, our viewers, for that. We will try to have him back on and let him finish his thought.

When we come back, more tough talk. As we said, health care, a top domestic priority for the president, was at the heart of some of the pointed questions today. Well, the president fought back. He fought back hard. We'll show you that portion of the exchange we've been talking about when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: While the president may have been a guest at today's Republican retreat, that didn't stop him from unloading, big time. We want to play you a moment that really captures, I think, some of his frustration.

Check this out. This is the president accusing Republicans of distorting his positions and reducing him and his health care plan to a caricature. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: If you were to listen to the debate, and frankly, how some of you went after this bill, you'd think that this thing was a -- some Bolshevik plot. No, I mean, that's how you guys -- that's how you guys presented it. And so I'm thinking to myself, well, how is it that a plan that is pretty centrist -- no, look, I mean, I'm just saying. I know you guys disagree, but if you look at the facts of this bill, most independent observers would say, this is actually what many Republicans, it's similar to what many Republicans proposed to Bill Clinton when he was doing his debate on health care.

So all I'm saying is, we've got to close the gap a little bit between the rhetoric and the reality. I'm not suggesting that we're going to agree on everything, whether it's on health care or energy or what have you. But if the way these issues are being presented, by the Republicans, is that this is some wild-eyed plot to impose huge government in every aspect of our lives. What happens is, you guys then don't have a lot of room to negotiate with me.

I mean the fact of the matter is that many of you, if you voted with the administration on something, are politically vulnerable in your own base, in your own party. You've given yourselves very little room to work in a bipartisan fashion, because what you've been telling your constituents is, this guy's doing all kinds of crazy stuff that's going to destroy America. And I would just say that we have to think about tone -- it's not just on your side, by the way. It's on our side as well. This is part of what's happened in our politics, where we demonize the other side so much, that when it comes to actually getting things done, it becomes tough to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: "LARRY KING LIVE" starting in just a few minutes. But first, our political panel, back with us to tell us whether what you saw today, the group therapy session that's going to deliver an actual breakthrough, when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: And we're back now with Candy Crowley, David Gergen and Jeff Toobin. And just bottom line it for me, guys. What are we going to see on Monday? This brave new bipartisan world, or same-old, same- old. Candy, what do you think?

CROWLEY: When I first came to Washington, my mother said, now don't get cynical, so my apologies to mother.

No, I don't think you're going to see anything different on Monday. I think what you may get, and we'll see, is more civility. But are you going to get more bipartisanship on tough issues where there is a deep, substantive divide between the two parties? Of course, you're not, because that's why they are two parties. I think in the end it's also useful to remember that the president might do well to have one of these sessions probably behind closed doors with his own party. Because the problem on Capitol Hill has not been the Republicans up until the Massachusetts race, it hasn't been the Republicans standing in the way of President Obama's agenda, it's been the Democrats.

BROWN: A fair point. David, what do you think?

GERGEN: Give credit to the president, Campbell, for having this on television, to be answering these kind of questions and taking some blame. I thought that was statesman-like on both counts.

Whether it goes beyond this will be one of -- will depend heavily upon the leadership and the Congress, on the Democratic side, especially, in the House, on the Republican side, especially in the Senate. Do they want to be more collaborative, or do they want to just ride it out, fight it out right until November? And I think the president, presidential leadership is probably going to be required to get that done.

BROWN: Right.

TOOBIN: I'm with Candy's mom. I actually think things might be different here, because, you know, it hasn't worked for Obama so far. I mean, the health care thing is a debacle. And he looks good reaching out to Republicans. It's good politics, it's good substance. And I think he's going to do more of it.

BROWN: We will see. We will be watching, on Monday, and in the days ahead.

Jeff Toobin, Candy Crowley, David Gergen, many thanks to all of you. Have a great weekend, everybody.

And we should also mention that you can tune in tonight at 11:00 Eastern to hear the full hour of the president's Q&A with Republicans. We are going to play it for you in full. That's 11:00 Eastern.

Again, have a lovely weekend. "LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now. I'll see you on Monday.