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Campbell Brown
Should You Drive Your Toyota?; Bonus Time at AIG
Aired February 03, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, everybody. Our top story tonight, the president's transportation chief says don't drive your Toyota but then he backs off. That tops our mashup. We are watching it all so you don't have to.
Transportation Secretary Ray Lahood had a bout of foot and mouth disease today. First, he told the House committee that Toyota owners should stop driving recalled cars but then took it back. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAY LAHOOD, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: If anybody owns one of these vehicles, stop driving it, take it to the Toyota dealer, because they believe they have a fix for it.
What I said in there was obviously a misstatement. What I meant to say and what I thought I said was, if you own one of these cars, or if you're in doubt, take it to the dealer and they're going to fix it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Well, that about-face seemed to only to add to the fear and confusion for drivers who only want to know one thing, are their cars safe?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Some Toyota owners tell us they are deadly afraid of driving their recalled cars even as the company scrambles to fix the problem.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't feel anything. I look around at all the other Toyotas on the road, or especially the Camry, which is what I'm driving. So I'm aware of that model.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I try to stay away.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The dealers have the parts to fix the more than two million vehicles recalled for potentially sticky accelerators.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you confident that this little guy here is going to fix the problem?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 100 percent. Toyota is confident in the repair and so is the government.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Called a shim, this stainless steel reinforcement is supposed to eliminate friction that Toyota says is causing its pedals to stick.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: News today the Japanese government has warned Toyota to investigate possible problems with the anti-lock braking system with the 2010 Prius, fueling questions about whether Toyota took action on safety concerns quickly enough.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And in just a few minutes, I'll talk to one congressman who says Toyota is still not coming clean on a lot of these stuff.
Tonight, as AIG, the poster child for bailed out companies, is still paying big bonuses, prepares to share the wealth with employees yet again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's bonus time again at AIG. Another $100 million were expected to go out the door.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That money is headed to workers in the very same financial unit where risky trades almost sank the company last year.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Neither Congress nor the White House is happy about it but they can't stop it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do not for a minute ignore the outrage out there, which I share.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We can see that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But the fact of the matter is, the fact of the matter is, we have got to abide by the law. We got to work as best we can to get as much of these money back as we can, and frankly, we're doing a very, very good job I think in getting as much of this money back as we can pursuant to the rule of law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: AIG says many of its employees have volunteers to take a cut in their bonuses amounting to about $20 million.
Attorney General Eric Holder is defending himself tonight over his handling of the Christmas bomb plot suspect. Critics charge the Obama administration leaked news that Umar Abdulmutallab was talking in order to diffuse controversy over trying him in criminal court.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will say that the reason that people were told about the success of these interviews didn't have anything to do with politics.
ED HENRY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: They are insisting it's not driven by politics but the fact is they are acknowledging that they were facing pressure and they were tired of it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No matter what decision was made that the folks in the intelligence community, high-level officials, should have been consulted.
HENRY: They believe their method has been methodical and there's been quiet and behind the scenes and without torture, without pushing the envelope on enhanced terror techniques or anything like that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So Republicans want to get Eric Holder up to the hill and they want to ask him why this was not done in a broader way. People had an opportunity. They were told how he was going to be questioned but they weren't consulted about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Of course, the big question is what is Abdulmutallab actually telling officials? So far, they are not saying.
Senate Democrats haven't been happy ever since Scott Brown's victory in Massachusetts. Losing your super majority will do that. So President Obama held a Q&A session with his former colleagues today, urging them not to give up on his agenda, especially health care.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If anybody is searching for a lesson from Massachusetts, I promise you the answer is not to do nothing. We got to finish the job on health care. We got to finish the job on financial regulatory reform. If that's where we go, I'm confident that politics in 2010 will take care of themselves.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Meanwhile, the president is in a little hot water with a few folks out west over a remark he made during this town hall yesterday. Listen to what he said about Las Vegas.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: When times are tough, you tighten your belts. Don't blow a bunch of cash on Vegas when you are trying to save for college.
He's got a problem with us. I don't know what it is. He's not a friend. I don't know about Nevada but Las Vegas, he sure is not our friend. I got tell you this and everybody says I shouldn't say it, but I got to tell you the way it is, this president is a real slow learner.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: This is the second time the president has upset Mayor Oscar Goodman and the sensitive citizens of Vegas.
Michelle Obama admits this has been a very tough year both for the president and for the country. She told Matt Lauer on NBC's "Today" show that she understands why people criticize her husband and she talked about how life in the White House has changed him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY: We have to don't work on how to disagree without being disagreeable. Barack warned us about this over the course of the campaign. I mean, he talked a lot about hope but he said that hope with that comes compromise and sacrifice. And it's painful. And it takes time. And it's true. And we're sort of feeling the pain of that.
MATT LAUER, HOST, NBC "TODAY" SHOW: The job has aged him a little. Look at his hair. It's grayer. There is wear and tear on his face. He still looks good, mind you.
MICHELLE OBAMA: He's cute! You know, I tease Barack all the time because, you know, the gray issue is interesting because his mother, his grandfather, they were all completely gray. So he was going in that direction any way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: The first lady also had a laugh when Lauer asked her about being named one of "Maxim" magazine's 100 hottest women in the world.
And that brings us to the punch line. Tonight it is courtesy of Jimmy Kimmel and the singer Pink. You will, of course, remember her performance at the Grammys the other night, near naked, hanging upside down, soaking wet. Jimmy Kimmel certainly remembered. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST: Pink definitely stole the show by performing stark naked and soaking wet. She was spinning through the air, and spraying water all over the place. It was a great moment and now it's available for a limited time on your lawn.
ANNOUNCER: Got lawn problems? Party no fun? House burning down? You need the pinkler.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow.
ANNOUNCER: The Pinkler is the most effective way of distributing water evenly and thoroughly wherever it's needed. Great for backyard fun and safe in the shower.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks, Pinkler.
ANNOUNCER: Order your Pinkler today. Act now and get a Taylor Swifter, free.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And that's Jimmy Kimmel, everybody. And that is the mashup.
When we come back, I'm going to talk to a congressman who is demanding some answer information from Toyota. We have some new information on that front.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Confusion over the Toyota recall spread all the way to Washington today. As me mentioned earlier, Secretary of Transportation Ray Lahood had to backtrack after initially telling Congress that owners of recalled models should stop driving them.
Toyota insisted today the problem with sticky gas pedals is rare and that despite the recall, its cars are safe. But Congressman Henry Waxman says they Toyota has been saying one thing publicly and another thing privately. And he's joining me on the phone right now. And congressman, I appreciate your time tonight. Explain what they have told you, your staff, that they are not telling us, Toyota.
REP. HENRY WAXMAN (D), CHAIRMAN, ENERGY & COMMERCE COMMITTEE: We have a lot of unanswered questions about how both Toyota and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has handled reports of problems with the vehicles and responded to the danger.
Our most recent letter to Toyota asked them to clarify these discrepancies because they said one thing in a public statement and another to our investigators that shows some really troubling mattering that we need to have clarified. So we've asked for documents and the work that they have done.
What is really disconcerting is that there are two things. There's a sticky pedal, which means you can't stop it. But it's not going at a faster speed. But then there is this thing called a sudden unintended acceleration. You are in a car and suddenly the car is taking off. Now, that is not a stick -- that doesn't seem to be a sticky pedal. At least we want to know, is the explanation of a sticky pedal the explanation for the sudden acceleration? So we need to get the facts on all of this.
BROWN: So just to clarify, I think what you're suggesting is that this may actually in fact be an electrical issue here as opposed to just the mechanical one which is what Toyota has been telling us, right?
WAXMAN: I think we need to find out whether that is the case. Whether they think that the recall is actually going to resolve the sudden unintended acceleration problems that are plaguing consumers. That's a very serious problem and it seems to me, it sounds like a different one than what they called for the people to bring in their Toyotas for the sticky pedal.
BROWN: So do you think Toyota is lying about this?
WAXMAN: I wouldn't go that far. I think we need to find out more information. I think they are trying to do the best they can. But what we want to know is are they able to resolve the problem? Because if they resolve one problem and we still have a sudden, unintended acceleration problem that is one that we can't ignore, and certainly a driver's nightmare that your car suddenly takes offer and the brakes don't even slow it down.
BROWN: There's a suggestion that they were saying one thing to your staff that is different than what they have been saying publicly. Is that the case?
WAXMAN: Yes, that is the case.
BROWN: And what exactly is that? Just so we are focused on that issue.
WAXMAN: Well, they were saying that the sticky pedal was the problem. And then our staff asked them that if that was the answer to all of the problems. And they said no. So we want to know, what is the answer to the sudden acceleration problem.
And are they different problems? And is there one solution to both? It doesn't appear to us from what we have been told that one fix for the sticky pedal is also going to work for the sudden acceleration.
BROWN: So there may be other problems here that are going unaddressed and we're trying to focus in on that.
WAXMAN: That's what we want to know about. We want to get the documents and we're going to hold a public hearing.
BROWN: Congressman, really appreciate your time tonight. Thank you so much.
WAXMAN: Thank you.
BROWN: And let me bring in Larry Webster right now. He is the automotive editor for "Popular Mechanics." Hey, Larry, you just heard Congressman Waxman there.
LARRY WEBSTER, AUTOMOTIVE EDITOR, "POPULAR MECHANICS": Yes.
BROWN: Basically if I got this right saying that Toyota is saying that the problem is a sticky pedal. They know how to fix it but he is saying that may not be the only problem anyway or may not entirely explain why cars are just suddenly accelerating. You're the expert, what do you think about this?
WEBSTER: Well, I think it's really just speculation at this point. In December, Toyota said we have investigated the problem that it looked like their computer going on or something electronic causing sudden unintended acceleration. And we didn't find anything. And they also brought in outside agencies and they didn't find anything either.
So I think that the problem is not caused by just these pedals and floor mats. It's just speculation at this point.
BROWN: But actually, if you listen to him, it sounded like it was more than speculation because - I mean, he was pretty clear about saying that Toyota said something very different to his staff people than they were saying publicly.
WEBSTER: Well, the thing I read was Toyota told his staff was determining the exact cause of sudden unintended acceleration is very difficult. And that's true. You have to remember in the last decade, there have been tens of thousands of reports of sudden unintended acceleration in cars made by all the manufactures.
And in response, (INAUDIBLE) investigated only 20 of them. Because there are a lot of factors that's involved. That unfortunately sometimes it's just simply driver error and not necessarily a mechanical problem.
BROWN: OK. Let me go to Prius now. Because today, we heard that investigators are now looking into problems with the Prius. So far, it's not included in the recall. But what's the issue there? How much are we worried about this?
WEBSTER: Well, this is kind of a troubling issue. Because the Prius uses a complex breaking system, that attempts to recapture some of the energy of a moving car, charges batteries and then use that energy to move the car. So this obviously saves fuel. And so there has been reports that sometimes when the drivers are breaking there's a momentarily loss of braking power.
And this has happened in Japan. They are looking into it and who knows how far it's going to spread but it's certainly troubling.
BROWN: Let me just, for everybody, because, you know, we are all, I think a little freaked out about all this. Anybody who drives a Toyota certainly is. You demonstrated sort of what do you. If you're driving, the car starts to accelerate with our Deb Feyerick. And I just want to show people for a quick second. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): So you are driving, the car suddenly begins to accelerate. So you take your foot off the pedal and jump on the brake with both feet or one foot?
WEBSTER: It doesn't matter. Just press the break as hard as you can with all your force and then move the shift lever from drive to neutral and then turn the car off.
FEYERICK (voice-over): It's not smooth but as we see, it definitely works.
(on camera): So as long as the driver knows how to stop the car in the event the accelerator doesn't return - you should be OK.
WEBSTER: Yes. I think we need to come up with a song or something. Hit the brake, shift to neutral. Hit the brake, shift to neutral.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And just to under score, I'm all for coming up with a song here, Larry. Just to under score so if you do that, hit the brake, shift to neutral and turn the car off, you're OK. It will stop the car, right?
WEBSTER: Well, at the end of the day, the brakes are also more powerful than the engine. So if the car takes off, hitting the brakes, you know, very hard and consistently, don't release the break pedal, the car will slow down. So sometimes you get these reports where the brakes don't work but the car is still accelerating.
That is a little harder to understand because they are two separate systems. Usually the breaks are a purely mechanical system that aren't affected by the car's computer. I have done a lot of tests with a different cars and the brakes always overpower the engine so you have a way to stop.
BROWN: All right. Larry - Larry Webster, again, the automotive editor of "Popular Mechanics." Thanks for trying to help bring a little clarity to all these. Larry, appreciate it.
WEBSTER: Sure. Thank you.
BROWN: And just to throw out some facts for you, how big is the recall, the eight models makeup more than 60 percent of Toyota's inventory.
When we come back, a developing story in Haiti. New questions about the missionary group that tried to take dozens of kids out of the quake zone. That coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: New developments tonight in the case of the American missionaries jailed after trying to take 33 Haitian children to the Dominican Republic. We have told you about the story. They are accused of kidnapping. Tonight, there are more questions being raised about who may have tried to help them and whether they actually told the truth to Haitian authorities.
We got two reporters in two countries working on the story. Dan Simon is at the group's home base in Meridien, Idaho, which is just outside of Boise. But we're going to start with Karl Penhaul in Port- au-Prince.
Karl, I understand the focus today has been on a police officer who may have helped this group try to get these kids across the border. Explain what is going on. KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That is certainly what we are focusing on today. In fact, a senior police official confirmed to CNN that a Haitian policeman who worked at the Dominican consulate has been taken in for questioning about whether he provided the legal travel documents for the American missionaries and took a bribe in return.
We don't have any further details of that investigation right now. But we do know from the three Haitian interpreters, that were helping translate for the Americans during their stay in Haiti that the Americans had two meetings with the Haitian policeman who worked with the Dominican embassy, one on Tuesday and one on Thursday. And according to the interpreters, they say that the Haitian policeman offered to help the Americans with paper work because the Americans realized they don't have the proper documentation.
Also today, I talked to the Dominican consul here in Haiti. And he said that he met Laura Silsby, the American missionary group leader on Friday and he said very categorically that he couldn't give her any permission to enter the Dominican Republic. Because she had no legal documents in place. I believe we got some sound from that interview that we did with him and this is what he had to say -
BROWN: All right. It looks like, Karl, I'm sorry. We actually don't you're your sound bite there. Apologies.
PENHAUL: Yes.
BROWN: I do want to ask you though about these accusations also today that the leader of this group, may have been lying. What can you tell us about that?
PENHAUL: Well, again, really, circling around what the information from the Dominican consulate because all along in the jailhouse interviews that we've done with Laura Silsby, she admitted that she had no documents and no passports, no exit permits from the Haitian government, but she always told us that she had a legal permission from the Dominican authorities to allow the children into the Dominican Republic.
I put that to the Dominican consulate Carlos Castillo and he said in no way did he give out any travel document to the American missionaries. In fact, he said that he heard of their plan. He sat with Laura Silsby and warned her do not travel. If you travel you will be stopped at the border and you will be accused of trafficking. Four hours after that meeting, Laura Silsby and four other Americans along with the 33 children were stopped. And of course, the rest we know. They are now in jail and accused of child trafficking. Campbell.
BROWN: All right. Let me turn now to Dan Simon because Dan has been looking into this group. Dan, I know at their base in Idaho. Tell us what you found out.
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Campbell, picking up on what Karl said, we spend our day looking into the background of Laura Silsby. She's the director so it's fair that we looking at her qualifications and to look into her background and what we found is that she has had some financial problems. She runs a web site called personalshopper.com. At one point, it has as many as 50 employees. Now it has just a handful.
We can tell you that as far as the group is concerned - remember she was running this group and what they told us, is basically Laura Silsby is a qualified person. I want to talk about this award she won in 2006 from a group called enetworkwomen.com. And that group basically said that she had an incredible track record as it relays to helping disadvantaged children.
Now let's put all that aside. It's fair to say that there are some disturbing questions about whether or not this group is truly qualified to undertake such an ambitious mission.
I just want to go through a couple of things. First of all, this group absolutely had no experience running an orphanage. No experience. It also never registered as a nonprofit. It wasn't even registered as an international adoption agency. And finally, Campbell, it's never been made clear how they would have the financial wherewithal to run this orphanage over a long period of time.
So what you're left with is an impression that perhaps this wasn't the most qualified group to run this orphanage. But I have to tell you, everything that we've seen in talking to a lot of folks here, we haven't seen anything other than the fact that they seem noble, at least in their intentions to really want to help these people.
BROWN: All right. So still a lot of unanswered questions here. Dan Simon for us and Karl Penhaul, reporting from Haiti as well. Thanks, guys.
We'll be back in a moment. We're going to talk about the first ever tea party convention, which opens tomorrow, getting a lot of attention. We'll show you why.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Tonight, we're looking at the growing clout of political independence in this country. And that takes us to Nashville, Tennessee where tomorrow the first ever tea party convention opens for business.
CNN's Jim Acosta has a look at what who is in the party and the challenges ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Take raging recession conservatives and independents -
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think Barack Obama is anti-American.
ACOSTA: Add a Democrat to the White House.
(on camera): Do you think having the president dressed up as the Grim Reaper is a little over the top?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I do not. There is nothing disrespectful about this.
ACOSTA (voice-over): And you get the tea party.
There is more brewing in this rebellion against bailouts and big government than just Scott Brown's tea party infused upset in the Massachusetts Senate race.
MARK MECKLER, CO-FOUNDER, TEA PARTY PATRIOTS: This is a major victory in what I would call the second American revolution.
ACOSTA: Mark Meckler and Jenny Beth Martin, founders of the Tea Party Patriots want this movement to blow the lid off Capitol Hill in this year's elections. They plan to back candidates who stand for tea party principles. And it doesn't matter if it's Republicans or Democrats standing in the way.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think if it had been John McCain, the same thing would have happened. I truly believe that.
ACOSTA (on camera): Really?
MECKLER: I do too.
ACOSTA (voice-over): In one year the tea party has gone viral from dozens to now hundreds of loosely-linked groups around the country. But Meckler and Martin don't tell them what to do. That's not the tea party way.
MECKLER: It's all bottom up. I mean, the real deal is that there are millions of leaders out there leading this movement.
ACOSTA (on camera): There may be leaders in the tea party movement but nobody is in charge. In fact, rival groups from Washington, D.C. to Sacramento, California, are battling over who will carry the tea party banner. And that fight has some tea partiers feeling hung over.
What do you think is happening at the tea party?
JIM KNAPP, TEA PARTY ACTIVIST: Well, I don't think the tea party knows what's happening to the tea party.
ACOSTA: Sacramento tea party activist Jim Knapp fears the movement is about to be hijacked by one of the established parties.
KNAPP: I don't think there's any question that the GOP has their tentacles into the tea party.
ACOSTA (voice-over): Knapp points to the Tea Party Express, the conservative bus tour that crisscrossed the country last year. It's run right inside a Republican political consulting firm. To the right, Sal Russo runs the firm. To the left, Joe Wierzbicki runs the Tea Party Express. Their offices are side by side.
(on camera): Do you think a lot of those tea party activists know that the Tea Party Express is based in an office that's run by Republican political consultants?
JOE WIERZBICKI, TEA PARTY EXPRESS: I think what you'll find is at tea party rallies a lot of those people who are mad at the Republican Party, many of them are Republicans themselves. Us included. You know?
ACOSTA: You're Republicans?
WIERZBICKI: Yes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NARRATOR: And that's why we at the Tea Party Express endorse Scott Brown.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA (voice-over): After spending $350,000 to air pro-Scott Brown campaign ads, these Republican consultants argue the tea party's home is the GOP.
WIERZBICKI: The people who formed this movement need a major political party.
ACOSTA: The movement's future is on the agenda at the tea party's first convention set for this week. But even with tea party favorite Sarah Palin headlining the convention, it's being boycotted by some tea party activists scoffing at the $550 admission fee.
MARK MECKLER, CO-FOUNDER, TEA PARTY PATRIOTS: There wasn't the kind of grassroots organization that we are, so we declined to participate.
ACOSTA: Despite all that infighting, it's clear that tea party is on a roll. Where it rolls is anybody's guess.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: And be sure to join us tomorrow. CNN correspondents will be on hand for the opening of the tea party convention.
Our next stop, Kentucky where independents frustration with both political parties starting to boil over that some lawmakers there not so willing to listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JULIAN CARROLL (D), KENTUCKY STATE SENATE: UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What you're saying is I don't like the way America runs its political system. If you don't like it, move to another country.
MICHAEL LEWIS, INDEPENDENT KENTUCKY CHAIRMAN: That's untrue, senator.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: There is growing anger out there among independents, and CNN's David Mattingly visited Kentucky where some are tired of two- party rule and are fighting back. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As an independent voting with two small children and a mortgage to worry about, 26-year-old Mike Lewis has a common complaint. He feels like his concerns are drowned out by partisan bickering.
MICHAEL LEWIS, INDEPENDENT KENTUCKY CHAIRMAN: These politicians talk about problems, but they're only keen on one solution.
MATTINGLY (on camera): Do you feel like you're being left out?
LEWIS: Of course. There's no -- there's no connection anymore.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): So Lewis is taking matters into his own hands. I'm tagging along to see what happens as he drives his pickup to the state capitol of his home state Kentucky, hoping to give independents a bigger voice
(on camera): OK, what's the plan?
LEWIS: Well, the plan is just to talk to as many senators. Senator (INAUDIBLE), how are you doing, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good.
LEWIS: I'm trying to get as many people on the ground as I can, wrestling them down if I have to.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): Lewis is only partly kidding about a fight. He wants to overturn the state's closed primary system, a system that excludes tens of thousands of independent voters from primaries. And he knows he's about to hit a nerve.
SEN. JULIAN CARROLL (D), KENTUCKY STATE SENATE: UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What you're saying is I don't like the way America runs its political system. If you don't like it, move to another country.
LEWIS: That's untrue, senator. Don't you want to talk to me about something real instead of these false truths that you're spreading?
MATTINGLY (on camera): The way it works right now in Kentucky, you have to register as a Republican or a Democrat before you can vote in a party primary. Seventeen other states have the same system. If you're an independent voter, you're not allowed to vote until the general election.
(voice-over): Democratic state Senator and former Kentucky Governor Julian Carroll thinks independents should pick a party.
CARROLL: If they want a party, then we will create a party and then they can have their own party that believes in their own principle.
MATTINGLY (on camera): Independents don't want to have their own party. Who wants to vote for Republicans and Democrats?-
CARROLL: I'm just telling you how we operate a democracy in America, David. We operate a democracy in America with the two-party system.
You're trying to destroy the two-party system in America.
LEWIS: Sir --
CARROLL: And I'm not going to be a part of it. End of this conversation.
LEWIS: You went on record saying I'm trying to start a party. There is no party here, sir. I'll see you on the floor, senator. Appreciate it.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): And just a few hours later, there was a vote in the state Senate, with it, another surprise.
(on camera): There's a little bit of irony here. The bill seems to be split down party lines.
(voice-over): Most Democrats led by Carroll opposed opening primaries to independents. Most Republicans holding the majority, voted yes.
LEWIS: This is strictly about letting an individual, an independent, a little (INAUDIBLE) get out there in the primary and be a part of the process.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And David Mattingly joining us now live. David, you know, listening to that anger, is this really a growing movement there?
MATTINGLY: Well, it's in its infancy. It's a grassroots movement. It's called Independent Kentucky. And this man we were following around was the head of that organization. It's all very organic from the bottom up. He is just -- he's got something he wants to accomplish. And you see he was taken upon himself to go there and lobby for this idea that he has.
We went to a meeting of this organization. They filled up a couple of tables at a local restaurant. So they don't have a lot of funding. They don't have a lot of support, but they do have an idea and they are motivated to do something about it.
BROWN: David, why did the vote for opening up primaries break down?
MATTINGLY: Down party lines?
BROWN: That's right, yes.
MATTINGLY: Well, that's because there's a majority of registered voters in Kentucky. Over 60 percent are registered Democrats. And for that party it just doesn't make sense to upset the status quo. The Republicans might see that a little bit differently.
You didn't hear that coming up in the debate on the floor. Everyone that was supporting the current system was doing so out of tradition. They were saying this is the way we've always done it. If you want to vote for a Democratic candidate in the primary, you should be a Democrat. So they have this traditional argument and now it's going to go to the House in Kentucky where the Democrats have the majority there. So it's sort of up in the air. We're not really sure how this is going to go.
BROWN: All right, David Mattingly for us tonight. David, thanks so much.
And coming up, everybody, we have some breaking news in those Arizona sweat lodge deaths last fall. Self-help guru James Ray has been arrested and charged with manslaughter. We're going to have the very latest on that coming back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Some breaking news to tell you about right now. Motivational speaker James Arthur Ray has been charged with three counts of manslaughter for the sweat lodge deaths at the Angel Valley Retreat Centers near Sedona. This was last year. Ray's attorney put out a written statement calling the charges unjust. Last year, CNN's Gary Tuchman spoke to the prosecution star witness in the case, a woman who worked for Ray and described in detail what really happened that day. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MELINDA MARTIN, SWEAT LODGE EVENT COORDINATOR: It was like an absolutely mass unit. Helicopters coming down, you know. Well, when he came out, the helicopters weren't there. But at that time, there are still bodies everywhere, passed out. I mean, and then he walked out there looking like a million bucks.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What was James Ray doing during this time?
MARTIN: Watching. Standing above and watching. They hosed him down and he said, oh, thank you. And, you know, and then he walked past the guy who was screaming saying -- he was earlier saying, he didn't want to die and please don't let me die. When James walked by him, this guy said to James from his sitting down position, he goes, I died, I literally died and I came back to life. And James is like, hey, all right, man. Gave him a high five. You know, it was like fantastic. And James, I think, was completely oblivious to the pandemonium that was taking place around that sweat lodge.
TUCHMAN: What happened during the worst point of all this? The most horrifying point?
MARTIN: My worst point, or my most horrifying point was when the ambulances arrived and helicopters arrived and the paramedics came and they surveyed Kirby (ph) Brown. And they put her in an ambulance instead of a helicopter. And that was the worst moment for me.
TUCHMAN: Because you knew that it was too late for her?
MARTIN: And after me giving her mouth to mouth, I would breathe into her mouth. Her stomach would go up and when it would go back again, she'd vomit into my mouth. And this happened four times. And I really thought I was going to bring her back. I really thought that she was going to survive.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And Gary Tuchman is on the phone now. Gary, the sweat lodge death happened back in October. I guess why has it taken so long for authorities to make the arrest?
TUCHMAN (via telephone): Incredibly thorough investigation, Campbell. There were 50 to 60 people who were inside the sweat lodge. The authorities interviewed all of them. We have hundreds of pages of documentation. And James Ray is in a heap of trouble because these people, they don't know each other except for being in the sweat lodge. They were interviewed shortly after -- all tell, almost all of them tell similar stories. Seeing people vomiting, seeing people hallucinating, seeing people get delirious, seeing people get passed out. And James Ray just continued the sweat lodge ceremony.
In addition, the authorities interviewed people who were at previous sweat lodge ceremonies in other years. And they told similar stories. People didn't die but people got sick, people vomited. And James Ray did nothing, according to these witnesses. These are dozens of people who are all saying that Ray just didn't seem to give a squat about what was happening. And he's in a lot of trouble. These three charges of manslaughter carry the possibility of four to 10 years in prison on each count. So this is a man remarkably and wildly successful who now can face many years in prison.
BROWN: And, Gary, I know you reached out to his attorney. What is he saying?
TUCHMAN: Yes, his attorney is basically telling us in a statement that this is unjust, that this was an accident, a terrible accident. Their defense I can tell you right now is going to be that James Ray was very involved in what he was trying to do, didn't realize all this was going on. And certainly -- no one is saying that this man wanted people to die. This manslaughter charge what it basically means in Arizona is recklessly causing the death of another. The word "reckless" is important. It doesn't mean you purposely tried to. And they're going to say, he just didn't know. He'd done this in previous years, other people didn't die. But it's going to be a very tough case for the defense because you have so many prosecution witnesses saying the same thing.
BROWN: And, Gary, I know he's been this very successful self- help guru with all of these followers and he's continued to pursue that business even after, you know, these deaths in the sweat lodge occurred. Presumably that's all going to stop now, right?
TUCHMAN: What was an amazing thing, Campbell, in the days after the three people died in the sweat lodge, he continued to hold these free seminars in hotels where he tried to draw up new business. One of my producers was inside one of the seminars. I couldn't go in because they recognize me and wouldn't let me in. My producer got in and while he was going on with the sales (ph), my producer said, how do you continue to hold these? Three people died in your sweat lodge a few days ago.
And he said this is not a press conference. This is not a press conference. Everyone in the room, there were a couple of hundred people there who want to learn about James Ray started booing my producer and they kicked my producer out of the room. Well, after that particular seminar which was in the state of Colorado, James Ray decided not to hold any more seminars for the time being. He said he did it out of respect.
We talked to one of the people who was in the sweat lodge. She told us the reason it was done that she heard is because the hotels where he was going to hold the seminars no longer were willing to let him use the hotels for those seminars. Nevertheless, either way he's not holding the seminars anymore, and that's an important point to bring out because a lot of people thought it was remarkably tasteless that he was doing so.
BROWN: Gary Tuchman for us with all the details tonight. Gary, thanks very much. Appreciate it.
When we come back, President Obama taking a swipe at Republicans today, calling them the party of no. Tonight, one of the president's critics in Congress in the hot seat to respond.
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BROWN: President Obama continued his public Q&A sessions with members of Congress. You'll recall last week he met with House Republicans. Today, it was the Senate Democrats turn in front of this friendlier crowd. The president talked fiscal responsibility and bipartisanship while also calling out the GOP.
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BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want to work together when we can and I meant it. I believe that's the best way to get things done for the American people. But I also made it clear that we'll call them out when they say they want to work with us and we extend a hand and get a fist in return.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And if there is one thing voters have made clear, that they too are frustrated when politics gets in the way of policy.
Tonight in our hot seat, Representative Darrell Issa, a Republican from California. And I asked how Republicans can play a more constructive role in Washington.
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REP. DARRELL ISSA (R), CALIFORNIA: I think from my committee's standpoint we've learned over the last year is that transparency and real effectiveness of government requires not just a president who says he wants to have the most transparent government and who quite frankly has tried to lock a lot of lobbyists out of his administration, but it takes the vigorous oversight and the demanding of transparency by the committees. It's something that I think our committee has tried to do but boy, we sure wish we've done a lot more of it sooner. And when you saw Republicans and Democrats last week with Tim Geithner really hammering him on the cover-up, I think what you saw was us demanding that we do help the president be more transparent.
BROWN: Well, to that point, you know, I think Scott Brown's victory in Massachusetts sent a clear message not just to Democrats but to Republicans also. I mean, do you think your party gets sort of the level of anger that's out there directed at both parties, at incumbents more than just at Democrats.
ISSA: Well, Campbell, we were the incumbents that were thrown out for being out of touch. We were thrown out for spending too much. They appreciated the tax cuts, thank you very much, but we weren't going toward a balanced budget. We got the economy all running well and then we did not begin cutting back on basically stimulus type programs. We tried to have both.
And so I think we're the party that knows why we were thrown out. And we're certainly the party that if we're going to be invited back in, we're going to have to be different than we were in the majority the last time.
BROWN: What are your biggest mistakes do you think over the last year that you would replay?
ISSA: Well, I certainly think that better educating our conference on if we're not going to vote for something, making sure that every Republican buys into and starts talking specifically with his district about those alternatives that we believe in. A lot of members let the leadership say we have alternatives. It wasn't until last week at the retreat that the president was actually seen with ideas flipping through and saying well, I've read some of these. I know about them and they have merit. That's a long time for the American people not to understand that we did have alternatives. We weren't communicating them very well.
BROWN: So do you think that there is a possibility that you guys will get together, that there will be bipartisanship on some of these issues? If he's reading your legislation, I guess that's a start. Were you more optimistic?
ISSA: Well, I am. Just afterwards, I talked to the president and he agreed to meet with us on a bill that's already passed but the OMB, the Office of Management and Budget, is not implementing on government transparency on database efficiencies, which doesn't sound like a big thing until you're a watchdog organization that says look, we can't get through the information in a way that allows us to say whether the government is doing the job or not. The president is committed to do this. And he's even agreed to have a meeting to help us push the bureaucracy to do the right thing.
On those kinds of issues, there is no Republican. There is no Democrat. We'd like to see the government spending less but both parties would like to see the government spending better.
BROWN: I couldn't agree more. Darrell Issa, appreciate you taking the time to talk to us. Congressman. Thanks so much.
ISSA: Thanks, Campbell.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: "LARRY KING LIVE" starts in just a few minutes. And up next, tonight's "Guilty Pleasure." A sneak peek at the Super Bowl commercials everybody is going to be talking about after Sunday's game.
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BROWN: This Sunday's Super Bowl isn't just about football, it's also about the commercials, which cost advertisers up to $3 million each for 30 seconds of your attention. And Jeanne Moos takes a look at what is on tap. It is tonight's "Guilty Pleasure."
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JEANNE MOOS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Whether it's Doritos in a casket or a video game gone to hell called "Dante's Inferno," it's time for those inferno Super Bowl ads and even online previews promoting the ads. See us in the third quarter. ETrade has even put outtakes online.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why are there only girls here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are you talking about? Dennis is right behind me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's Denise.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MOOS: And it's Budweiser saying it was going to drop the Clydesdale horses this year, then putting an ad featuring them online so folks could vote to bring them back.
(on camera): Football. Who cares about football? Fifty-one percent of viewers surveyed by Nielsen say they enjoy the commercials more than they enjoy the game itself.
(voice-over): Doritos lets you make the commercial. Four thousand submissions were smacked down to six finalists.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep your hands off my mama. Keep your hands off my Doritos.
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MOOS: A pastor dreamed up the one about a guy faking his own death so he could Doritos while watching the game.
ERWIN MCMANUS, PASTOR: We paid for 70 bags of Doritos.
MOOS: Pastor Erwin McManus says it was inspired by an actual funeral.
MCMANUS: And he wanted to be buried with a pack of cigarettes and a can of beer so they slipped it into the casket.
MOOS: The most popular amateur spots will actually air and could conceivably win a prize of $1 million or more.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anti-bark collar. You want a Dorito, you got to speak.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MOOS: An aspiring filmmaker made this on a shoestring budget.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three hundred bucks.
MOOS: Rosie the dog takes off her anti-bark collar. Coke will feature characters from "The Simpsons." Dr. Pepper will feature Kiss. And mini Kiss, a tribute Diane (ph) made up of little people.
Sometimes little tweaks are required. CBS wouldn't allow the tagline in the ad for the "Dante's Inferno" video game. So it was changed to hell awaits.
What's heavenly in terms of free exposure is having your ad rejected. This year CBS gave the thumb's down to a gay dating service called Man Crunch. Their hands meet in a snack bowl and soon they're snacking on each other.
Take that, kiss. Jeanne Moos...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's Denise.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MOOS: CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And that is it for us. Thanks for watching. "LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.
