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Campbell Brown
Broken Government; Toyota Officials Face Congress
Aired February 23, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there, everybody.
Our top story tonight: Toyota under fire, executives in the hot seat on Capitol Hill today just unable to explain what is wrong with their cars.
That news tops the "Mash-Up." We're watching it all, so you don't have to.
Today USA president James Lentz withstood a two-hour grilling today, pummeled by lawmakers of both parties. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. HENRY WAXMAN (D), CALIFORNIA: Do you believe that the recall on the -- on the carpet changes and the recall on the sticky pedal will solve the problem of sudden, unintended acceleration?
JAMES LENTZ, PRESIDENT AND CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER, TOYOTA MOTOR SALES USA: Not totally.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: He said that it took Toyota too long to come to grips with what the problem was.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Toyota promised to do better and told Congress they will retrofit some models with new software they call a brake override to prevent sudden acceleration. New cars will have it, but Toyota says it won't work for some recalled models.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Question after question dealt with what many suspect could be the real cause.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Analyze the electronic system.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whether or not the electronics are the problem.
RAY LAHOOD, U.S. SECRETARY OF TRANSPORTATION: We're going to get into the weeds on the electronics. I commit to you we're going to do that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To all of it, Lentz insisted the electronics are not to blame.
LENTZ: We welcome anyone that can find any issues with our electronics. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Toyota's toughest challenger today, Committee Chairman Henry Waxman, who you just heard a moment ago. Is he satisfied with what he heard? We will find out when Congressman Waxman joins me in just a little bit.
Perhaps the most dramatic moment, though, in today's hearing, an impassioned testimonial from a former Toyota driver. Rhonda Smith described the harrowing minutes in 2006 when her car careened out of control. She slammed on the brakes. She shifted into reverse. She tried everything she could think of, but the car kept speeding on at 100 miles an hour.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RHONDA SMITH, TESTIFIED ABOUT LEXUS SUDDEN ACCELERATION: I figured the car was going to go its maximum speed and I was going to have to put the car into the upcoming guardrail in order to prevent killing anyone else.
And I prayed for God to help me.
I called my husband on the Bluetooth phone system. I knew...
(OFF-MIKE)
I'm sorry.
(OFF-MIKE)
I knew he could not help me, but I wanted to hear his voice one more time.
(OFF-MIKE)
After six miles, God intervened. As the car came very slowly to a stop.
Shame on you, Toyota, for being so greedy. And shame on you, NHTSA, for not doing your job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Smith said Toyota brushed off her complaint. She calls the company's response a farce.
Testifying in the Senate today, the Army's chief of staff, and he said -- or said today that Congress should not suspend don't ask, don't tell while the Pentagon reviews the ban on allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly in the military.
General George Casey says he worries a change could adversely affect the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
GENERAL GEORGE CASEY, ARMY CHIEF OF STAFF: I do have serious concerns about the impact of the repeal of the law on a force that's fully engaged in two wars and has been at war for eight-and-a-half years. We -- we just don't know the impacts on readiness and military effectiveness.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: The Pentagon expects to complete its study of gays in the military by the end of the year.
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid says a vote on the president's jobs plan could come any day now. Our sources tell us that day is probably tomorrow. Reid has managed to muster some Republican support for the bill, a coup in this age of hyper-partisanship. Lots of closed-door conversations, to be sure, but we were struck by something Reid said in public yesterday on the Senate floor. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MAJORITY LEADER: I have met with some people while I was home dealing with domestic abuse. It has gotten out of hand. Why? Men don't have jobs. Women don't have jobs either, but women are not abusive most of the time.
Men, when they are out of work, tend to become abusive. Our domestic crisis shelters in Nevada are jammed. It's the way it is all over the country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Interesting comments from the majority leader, and we asked CNN's fact check desk to investigate. They determined actually that Reid is right.
The Centers for Disease Control lists unemployment as a risk factor for domestic violence. And the National Domestic Violence Hotline reports that last year 54 percent of their callers said that their household's financial situation had recently changed.
And we go to New Jersey now, where former NBA star Jayson Williams today got five years in prison for shooting his limo driver back in 2002. Williams, who played for the New Jersey Nets, pleaded guilty to aggravated assault. At today's sentencing hearing, he apologized to his victim's family and to his own supporters. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAYSON WILLIAMS, CONVICTED FELON: To my friends, including those within the community, the church and the NBA, I regret having let you down. I'm grateful for all your support and continuing to your prayers and despite all my faults.
Judge Edward Coleman and the Christofi family, I'm not a bad man, but I acted badly on February 14. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Williams is eligible for parole in 18 months.
And that brings us to the "Punchline" now. This is courtesy of Jon Stewart, his take on last week's conservative conference.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JON STEWART, HOST, "THE DAILY SHOW WITH JON STEWART": Much like Woodstock, the CPAC convention skipped right past enjoyable high and went right to, I'm freaking out, man. Everyone is out to get me.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, who are we up against? Now, I want to define that enemy. They are liberals.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The socialist agenda.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are progressives.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A viable liberal agenda.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are Che Guevarians. They are Castroites.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tyranny.
NEWT GINGRICH, FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: The radical left.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trotskyites, Maoists, Stalinists, Leninists, Marxists.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Out-of-touch liberal elites.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're all enemies. Who did I leave out?
(LAUGHTER)
STEWART: Uh, lesbian environmentalists for reformed Judaism?
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Jon Stewart, everybody. And that is the "Mash-Up."
And when we come back, with millions of Toyota cars on the road drivers want to know, how safe are they? Toyota executives in the hot seat.
When we come back: a CNN special investigation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: The headline from today's congressional hearing is frightening. Toyota doesn't really know what is wrong with its cars or how to fix them. But there have been strong suspicions that the problem causing some cars to speed out of control is a problem with electronics.
Now, for weeks, Toyota has denied this.
Drew Griffin right now has our special investigation. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He is Toyota's top salesman in the U.S., and James Lentz in testimony and under questioning stuck to the pitch. Toyota's unintended acceleration problems are not electronic problems.
LENTZ: We've designed our electronic throttle system with multiple fail-safe mechanisms, to shut off or reduce engine power in the event of a system failure. We've done extensive testing of this system and we've never found a malfunction that's caused unintended acceleration.
GRIFFIN: According to Toyota, the problems are mechanical, stuck pedals, stuck floor mats, and therefore easily and cheaply fixable. But four leading experts in the field of sudden acceleration, car safety and automotive recalls, tell CNN that Toyota's explanations do not make sense.
SEAN KANE, SAFETY RESEARCH STRATEGIES: I would say unequivocally that Toyota's explanations do not account for the -- the share of unintended acceleration complaints that we've examined.
GRIFFIN: Why?
Sean Kane with Safety Research Strategies, an automotive safety consulting firm that has tracked the sudden acceleration complaints literally for years now, says follow the data. Some, yes, are floor mats. Some, yes, he says, may be a stuck gas pedal. But that's the problem. The records show just some of the problems explained.
KANE: There's a series of patterns that are emerging that cannot be explained.
GRIFFIN: Rhonda Smith is one of those unexplained incidents, telling Congress her runaway Toyota Lexus didn't have a stuck gas pedal or a stuck floor mat. It just took off.
SMITH: I put the car into all available gears, including neutral, but then I put it in reverse, and I placed both feet on the brake.
after I firmly engaged the emergency brake, and nothing slows the car.
I figured the car was going to go its maximum speed and I was going to have to put the car into the upcoming guardrail in order to prevent killing anyone else. And I was going to have to put the car into the upcoming guardrail in order to prevent killing anyone else.
GRIFFIN: This noisy electronics lab at the University of Maryland's Clark School of Engineering is where professor Mike Pecht specializes in laboratory-controlled interference testing. He believes Toyota still doesn't know what's causing the problems. Most likely, it's electronics. And that, he says, is a worst-case scenario for a car company losing sales.
PROF. MICHAEL PECHT, DEPT. OF MECHANICAL ENGINEERING, UNIV. OF MARYLAND: I think that the evidence is pointing that way. I think the evidence is pointing that way, absolutely.
GRIFFIN (on camera): So, any fix is not a fix?
PECHT: So -- so they're in a -- they're in a little bit of a -- a quandary. If they announce that the electronics is a problem, they're -- they're going to probably be in a -- in a lot of trouble because nobody is going to want to drive the car.
So I think, at this stage, they don't want to announce that there's an electronics problem.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): Drew griffin, CNN, College Park, Maryland.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Congressman Henry Waxman grilled Toyota today. He got the company to admit the massive recall is not totally solving its safety crisis.
And Congressman Waxman is joining me right now.
Congressman, welcome to you.
And let me tell you, our own investigation, as people saw a second ago, found that this does look to be an electronics issue. You suspected that when we last spoke to you a couple of weeks back.
Why isn't Toyota admitting that that may well be the issue?
WAXMAN: I can't understand Toyota's position. They have some of the best engineers presumably in the world, and yet they didn't look at the most likely reason for the sudden unintended acceleration of these Toyota automobiles.
Toyota looked at blaming the drivers, blaming the floor mats, blaming a sticky pedal. And they just didn't even look at the obvious thing of the electronics in this new sophistication that's in almost all the new cars that do a lot of good, but should be watched very carefully to be sure it's not leading to unsafe situations.
BROWN: So, you just pointed out how they were seemingly redirecting blame to all these other areas. Do you think they were really trying to cover up a real problem here?
WAXMAN: I don't know. I don't think so, because it doesn't make any sense that they would. Yet it also doesn't make any sense that they wouldn't have looked at this issue.
They didn't even ask an evaluation be done of the electronics until February of this year, this month. And we had a couple people look at the report that was done, and they said it was so inadequate, that the sample was too small. It wasn't done in a rigorous, scientific way, and the result, of course, of this evaluation was, oh, it couldn't have been the electronics.
BROWN: So, given everything you heard from them today, and, presumably you, your staffers had been talking to them in addition to just the hearing that we all saw publicly, do you get the sense now, at least, that they are actively looking for a real solution?
WAXMAN: I think that this hearing had to impress upon them that they can't avoid looking at the electronics and the computer systems, that their explanations don't add up.
They haven't come up with a solution, and they even admit that their recalls are not going to solve the problem -- 70 percent of the cars that have had sudden acceleration problems are not even going to be covered by their recalls. So, they have not done the job we expect that they should be doing.
BROWN: And I know, Congressman, you have said there is plenty of blame to go around here. For example, you did take issue also with the NHTSA, how the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has handled this as well.
WAXMAN: Yes.
BROWN: How, specifically, do you think they have dropped the ball?
WAXMAN: Well, they didn't even have an expert on -- at the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration who knew about electronics.
In fact, we saw e-mail exchanged from one of their people who said, we don't know how to evaluate this. We have to rely on what Toyota is saying.
I don't want the government agency to be relying on Toyota or any other car manufacturer, if they're getting over a couple thousand complaints about people who are driving cars that suddenly take off.
But I don't think it's fair to say there is enough blame to go around. Toyota has to be responsible for their cars, and I don't think they have handled this in a responsible way.
BROWN: So, what -- what do you say? I mean, what is your advice to Toyota owners right now who just want to know that their cars are safe? What can you say to them? WAXMAN: Well, let's put this in perspective. There are very few cars that are going to have this problem. It is not a common one. But it is a serious problem.
And Toyota has to figure out, if it's the electronics, what to do not just in the future, but for all the people that are on the road now. And telling them they have got to come in and get their mats changed that might be pressing against the accelerator, that's fine. But if that doesn't solve the problem, they have got to do something that will solve the problem.
That, I think, is going to mean they have got to understand what the problem is and not be so dismissive of what appears to be the cause.
BROWN: Congressman Henry Waxman -- Congressman, appreciate your time.
WAXMAN: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: When it comes to questioning terrorists here at home, what investigators can find out behind closed doors is crucial. So, what works better, doing it the military way or in civilian courts?
The debate continues -- when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Tonight, new details about the confidential plea deal for Najibullah Zazi, the man who admitted plotting a terror attack on New York City after being recruited by al Qaeda.
A law enforcement source tells CNN that the threat of legal action against Zazi's parents played a role in his decision to cooperate. Attorney General Eric Holder says his case shows the criminal justice system is a -- quote -- "invaluable weapon in fighting terrorism."
But today some Republicans said, not so fast. Many still want these types of cases tried in military tribunals. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: I think that terrorists ought to be treated as terrorists and not like common criminals.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So the debate goes on.
And with me now, Fran Townsend, a CNN national security contributor who served in the last Bush administration, and Jack Rice, who is a former CIA special agent, joining us as well. And, Fran, the Justice Department saying, look, this proves that the criminal justice system can effectively try terrorists. Why shouldn't other terrorists also be tried now in criminal courts?
FRANCES TOWNSEND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CONTRIBUTOR: Campbell, let's start with the clear statement from me that this case, the Zazi case, is a success. No question that some cases can be absolutely prosecuted in the criminal justice system, and they can be done effectively.
I think it is also fair to say that that won't work for all of them. Not everyone will cooperate as quickly. You won't -- you won't be able to get the cooperation you need, the intelligence you need to stop threats, and even the attorney general in the press conference that you made reference to said this is one tool, it's one effective tool, among several. And he mentioned specifically the military, and he mentioned intelligence.
And so I think what people need to hear from him is, so, OK, what are the circumstances where you think military commissions will be most effective? What are the sorts of intelligence techniques that you believe can be most effective? What about the high-value detainee interrogation group that the new administration has announced that they are going to implement?
But we haven't heard much about how it will be implemented, or, if it has, how it will be used. And so I think that what people need to hear is, when the criminal justice system won't be appropriate or won't be effective, what is the administration's plan B?
BROWN: And there is a lot there for you to respond to here, Jack. Let me break it down a little bit, if we can.
First, sort of address this idea that these cases, other cases, won't be this easy, that terrorists are not likely to cooperate as readily as we saw in this case.
JACK RICE, FORMER CIA OFFICER: Well, that may be possible, but what I think is important here is what I'm seeing by some is that they have decided that none of these cases should be prosecuted in a civilian courtroom. And Fran is correct on this point.
BROWN: But that's not what Fran just said.
RICE: No, I agree.
BROWN: She said this worked. So -- and we're talking about other ones. That's what -- I want to work in this gray area, where there are areas of disagreement. So, go ahead and address her point there.
(CROSSTALK)
RICE: Right. Right. And you're right. In the places where it works, great. If there are some places it doesn't work, then you have to reconsider. However, I think the place where -- where they work in a civilian courtroom is much larger than has ever been really addressed before. It's not just the Zazi case. It's not just him. It's also Abdulmutallab.
But I actually think there are others who could actually be tried in civilian courtrooms as well.
BROWN: Khalid Sheikh Mohammed?
RICE: I think KSM should be tried in a civilian courtroom.
And you know why? It's because what I'm looking for is transparency. I'm also looking for a really effective prosecution team that is far more experienced in the civilian world than they are in the military world. In addition to that, we realize what could also happen here is, I have confidence in the evidentiary rules in civilian courtrooms, the procedural rules in civilian courtrooms.
There's been more than 300 people prosecuted in civilian courtrooms effectively. The Richard Reid case, he's spending the rest of his life in a civilian penitentiary in Colorado. He will never get out, another example of a success. So, we shouldn't run away from those just because some people want to be tough on terrorism.
BROWN: Fran, let me let you respond.
TOWNSEND: Well, Campbell, we have found a case where we disagree.
KSM is the classic example of a case that's not best tried, in my judgment, having been a former federal prosecutor, in the criminal justice system.
For one thing, I mean, interestingly enough, Andy McCarthy, who prosecuted the blind sheik case in the Southern District of New York and understands this issue very well, has been very clear that even he, who has prosecuted a big terrorism case, doesn't believe that a criminal prosecution is appropriate for KSM, because what happens, you do discovery, and information you are provide in discovery turns out to be in a safe house halfway around the world with al Qaeda.
I mean, there are evidentiary issues where things are revealed to your enemies, to the defendant and his defense team because they need that in a criminal prosecution, and that winds up in the hands of people who are going to use it to do you harm.
I just think not every case -- I'm a strong believer in the criminal justice system and believe it can be an effective tool, as it has been in the Zazi case. I just don't think it's a cookie-cutter, where it works for every single case.
BROWN: And let me go to Jack on that, because, Jack, you're not suggesting that every single terrorism case -- you are saying -- if I heard you correctly a moment ago, you did say that there are some instances where you would have to look at a military tribunal, correct?
RICE: I think you're correct.
BROWN: So, give me the circumstances where that might be the case. I mean, if Khalid Sheikh Mohammed doesn't meet that criteria, who does? When do we go look at that as a possible option?
RICE: Maybe the difference is, is KSM was actually picked up in Pakistan by a group of intelligence officials, U.S. and Pakistani, amongst others. And that was a different situation.
If there was a situation where they were truly on the battlefield, where accessibility may be far more difficult, maybe those are those narrow places. But I would argue that even those should at least receive some type of a military tribunal.
I'm actually going further than what I'm seeing from either the Bush administration in the past and certainly from the Obama administration, who are suggesting there are some that shouldn't even be before a military tribunal. I'm arguing that they should be, because, big picture now, from my perspective, I think what we're looking for here is the transparency and so we can look to the Muslim world, 1.5 billion people, and say, we so believe in our system of justice, whether or not it's a civilian or a military, that we're willing to prove that these guys are as bad as we say that they are.
And I actually believe that that is critical in both instances.
(CROSSTALK)
TOWNSEND: Campbell, I can tell you, prior to 9/11, there were prosecutions. The East Africa Embassy bombings, I was part of the Justice Department that criminally prosecuted them.
I think that was the right thing to do. But let's not kid ourselves. That didn't stop us from being attacked on 9/11. You don't convince any of your enemies to hold back and not attack you because you have been transparent and given them all these criminal justice protections.
BROWN: All right, Fran Townsend, of course, and Jack Rice, appreciate your time, both guys. Both of you guys, thank you both so much.
RICE: Thank you.
TOWNSEND: Thank you.
BROWN: We are going to take a quick break.
Coming up, we have our special investigation into broken government that puts a spotlight on Washington's lobbyists. Why do they snag top government jobs, despite the president's promise to ban them? That when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: Tonight, a special investigation into the revolving door in Washington between lobbying and government jobs.
As a candidate, then Senator Obama vowed to close that door.
Well, tonight, Drew Griffin takes a hard look at one prominent exception, part of our weeklong series "Broken Government." Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GRIFFIN (voice-over): He was the surprise appointment that literally announced President Obama's first broken campaign promise.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, the deputy secretary of defense.
GRIFFIN: William Lynn confirmed as the Defense Department's number two just weeks after Mr. Obama became president, a shock because William Lynn had spent much of the last decade as a top lobbyist for the major defense contractor, Raytheon.
(on camera): It is, of course, the same old revolving door we've seen from administration to administration, except it was supposed to be different in this administration. Remember this?
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have done more to take on lobbyists of any other candidate in this race, and I have won. I don't take a dime of their money, and when I'm president, they won't find a job in my White House.
MELANIE SLOAN, CIT. FOR RESP. & ETHICS IN WASH.: Certainly having William Lynn who is a top Raytheon lobbyist immediately turn around and go into the administration is the revolving door at its worst.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): By all accounts, the four government watchdog groups we consulted including Melanie Sloan's Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington say William Lynn has not broken any laws. But they say he is a poster child for everything that's wrong with how business gets done Washington.
Mr. Lynn declined an interview with CNN. A Pentagon official who tried to discourage CNN from reporting this story issued a statement, saying that since returning to the Pentagon, Deputy Defense Secretary Lynn has not participated or sought to participate in any way whatsoever in any budget or contract decisions involving his former employer. The statement goes on to say that Lynn has scrupulously adhered to his ethics pledge and agreement. It stated that there is absolutely no evidence of any impropriety or conflict of interest by Deputy Secretary Bill Lynn in carrying out his duties at the Pentagon.
But how did this lobbyist get back to the Pentagon? In Washington, government watchdogs like Steve Ellis says it's all about those revolving doors.
STEVE ELLIS, TAXPAYERS FOR COMMON SENSE: And certainly the revolving door is still spinning.
GRIFFIN: William Lynn's first government job was into the office of senior Democratic Senator Ted Kennedy back in 1987. He was Kennedy's liaison to the Senate Armed Services Committee. Six years later with Democrat Bill Clinton in the White House, Lynn moved to the Pentagon, eventually becoming the undersecretary of defense in charge of the money.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Congratulations.
GRIFFIN: In 2001, a power shift. And Lynn was heading to the revolving door.
(on camera): Early in the Bush administration, that revolving door brought him right here to this building, home of one of the biggest defense contractors where he became their big lobbyist.
(voice-over): Raytheon is a $25 billion a year defense contractor. It makes and sells guided missiles, including the Patriot and Tomahawk. As its top lobbyist, William Lynn was paid pretty well. By last year, "Washingtonian" magazine estimated his personal wealth at somewhere between $2 million and $5 million. But yet another election and yet another revolving door.
(on camera): With Bush gone and the Democrats in charge, that revolving door revolved again for Mr. Lynn, who is now right back at the Pentagon.
(voice-over): The Pentagon also pointed out to us that the value of Defense Department contracts with the company haven't changed. Nonetheless, Raytheon's sales, which include overseas contracts that must be approved at the Pentagon, are up seven percent since its former lobbyist moved back to government service.
(on camera): Drew Griffin.
(voice-over): Leslie Paige with Citizens Against Government Waste says Lynn's hiring by the Obama administration is an example of the same old broken government.
(on camera): This is exactly what they, what he --
LESLIE PAIGE, CITIZENS AGAINST GOVT. WASTE: Yes.
GRIFFIN: -- said was not going to happen.
PAIGE: You know, this town has a problem, and this town is dysfunctional. I mean, you get to say anything you want when you need to say it. But when it comes to actually commitments and making those commitments reality, there is a huge disconnect. It's not happening.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): The Obama administration says it is adhering to its promise, granting a handful of waivers only to those lobbyists like William Lynn who are critical appointments. The Project on Government Oversight, another watchdog group, wants more detail. In this Freedom of Information Request to the Pentagon, the group asked if Lynn met with contractors, and if so, when. It's a letter the watchdogs at the Project on Government Oversight hope they would not have to write.
(on camera): So the change didn't happen.
MANDY SMITHBERGER, PROJECT ON GOVT. OVERSIGHT: This is not the change that we hoped for, no.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And Drew Griffin is joining us right now. And, Drew, I understand the Pentagon was none too happy about the story, basically saying that Bill Lynn has done nothing wrong, hasn't violated any ethics rules, and no one is even accusing him of that. So why are these watchdog groups so upset?
GRIFFIN: Campbell, they're upset because this appointment they believe sends the wrong message that this administration is really more of the same and so unnecessary, they say. One of them telling me it's just absurd to think that the only person in this country qualified to be the second in command at the Pentagon turns out to be a lobbyist. They argued that President Obama could have easily avoided this controversy if he wanted to -- Campbell.
BROWN: All right. Drew Griffin for us tonight. Drew, thanks.
Coming up, it's your money and Washington lawmakers are clamoring to take it home with them. We're going to tell you who is getting the lion's share.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Tonight, a look at your taxpayer dollars at work. As part of our week-long series "Broken Government," we wanted to find out who is spending the most money on -- the most of your money on pet projects for their home state. Last night, we took a look at the House. Tonight we're taking a look at the Senate. And Ali Velshi has been looking through the records all day. So, Ali, who in the Senate are the big spenders?
ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Let me tell you when I first saw these numbers, Campbell, I was thinking these were lifetime numbers. I couldn't believe it.
Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia has raked in $250 million in 85 different earmarks in this fiscal year. These are things, by the way, that he is sponsoring solo. These are not joint with other people.
Senator Dan Inouye of Hawaii, $204 million in 66 different earmarks. And Thad Cochran of Mississippi, $102 million in 72 different projects.
Now, I'm going to show you what some of these are. In Robert Byrd's example, $3 million in one case for the Pocahontas County Community Center in Marlington, West Virginia, it helps people with alcohol abuse, people in need.
Senator Inouye in Hawaii, $1 million for the Hawaiian Coral Reef Initiative. And let me show you, Thad Cochran, here's a big one, $35 million for the Delta Health Alliance. Hard to know what these are -- you know, whether we're not judging, Campbell, whether they're good or bad, but the bottom line is it is not the world's most transparent way of getting funding for projects that otherwise may qualify for funding. The earmark process a little bit shrouded in secrecy.
BROWN: And, Ali, I guess you talk about states like West Virginia and Hawaii. These are smaller states, smaller population. How are they pulling in the lion's share when you look at federal tax money?
VELSHI: Very good question. Take a look at who is getting it. Robert Byrd, the longest serving senator in the United States Senate. Dan Inouye, the second longest serving senator. I think he was elected in '63 if I'm not mistaken. Thad Cochran, 1978. These are senators who know how to use the system. Many times getting support for your earmark involves giving somebody else for something else, which is where the system becomes problematic.
You don't really know whether people are supporting things because it's the best thing for either their constituents or for the American people, but these are people who have been in Congress for many, many, many years and they have become experts at dealing with the earmark system, attaching bills, attaching money projects to bills that otherwise may not get that kind of funding.
Again, Campbell, I want to be clear. We're not doing the kind of research into here that would indicate that these are not good projects that they're getting money for, but the system of earmarking doesn't allow it to go through the same scrutiny and competition that it would otherwise have to go through if they weren't earmarks in a bill -- Campbell.
BROWN: All right. Ali Velshi for us tonight. Ali, thanks very much.
When we come back, a big announcement by the U.S. military today about who can serve on submarines.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Former Vice President Dick Cheney still in the hospital recovering from what we now know is his fifth heart attack. So how unusual or common is it for a person with heart disease to survive multiple heart attacks -- five? In a few moments, we are going to hear from CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta on that.
But first, we've got some more must-see news happening right now in the headlines. Mike Galanos here with tonight's "Download." Hi, Mike. MIKE GALANOS, HLN PRIME NEWS: Hi, Campbell. First off, new full-body scanners could be in operation at an airport near you in the coming months. The first of 150 full-body scanners planned for U.S. airports will be installed in Boston next week. Chicago's O'Hare is next. The Department of Homeland Security says that based on risk, but the rest of the machines at airports nationwide should come by the end of June.
It's still not clear what made about 350 passengers sick aboard a Caribbean cruise. The celebrity cruise line ship "Celebrity Mercury" departed from Charleston, South Carolina, February 15th. The spokesman says that the passengers complained of upset stomachs, vomiting and diarrhea.
A popular pro wrestler suffered minor burns during an accident that looks a lot worse than things actually turned out. He's known as "The Undertaker," was entering the ring and fireballs exploded. It looks like he might have been just flat-out standing in the wrong spot. It went off too close to him. It looks like the coat got caught on fire.
His name is Mark Calaway, and he suffered minor chest burns. After being checked out by a ringside doctor, the guy ended up wrestling about 25 minutes later. He said he had like a sunburn on his chest. That's all.
GALANOS: Yes. Pretty incredible video there.
Finally this one, women may soon be allowed to serve aboard U.S. submarines. The Pentagon intends to lift a decades-old policy that bans female sailors on subs. The thinking behind the ban was that such close quarters would be a distraction for both sexes. Now the Defense Department says crew space will have to be modified to address privacy issues.
Campbell, back to you.
BROWN: That's good news. Mike Galanos for us tonight. Mike, thanks very much.
When we come back, Dick Cheney's latest health scare. Is surviving a fifth heart attack remarkable or actually routine? We're going to hear from chief -- CNN chief medical correspondent Sanjay Gupta when we come back.
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BROWN: Today, we learned that former Vice President Dick Cheney has suffered a heart attack, number five. This, of course, happened last night. The former vice president went to the hospital with chest pains. Tests apparently showed that he had what is being called a mild heart attack. Cheney is reportedly today in good spirits, taking calls from former President George W. Bush and from Vice President Joe Biden.
To the average person, that sounds pretty remarkable. So I did want to bring in our chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. And along with Sanjay, we have a Cheney expert. He is truly the expert, Barton Gellman, who is the author of "Angler," the book -- the renowned book about "The Cheney Vice Presidency." He's here as well.
But, Sanjay, let me start with you because -- I mean, when I found out today that this was a mild heart attack, I thought, how does anybody survive five heart attacks? Is this incredibly rare or more common than we think?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, it's actually more common than you think and for reasons that might surprise you. It's actually in many ways because we've gotten so good with using medications and using various procedures in people who've had heart attacks, they're simply living much longer. So it's not surprising that someone would have, you know, multiple heart attacks, and obviously in this case, five. He does have significant coronary artery disease. Obviously his first heart attack as we talked about yesterday at age 37.
But, Campbell, what most people will say it's not the number of heart attacks that seems to be the most critical here, but rather the extent of damage that each heart attack cause. Now we know he's had more significant heart attacks in the past, but ultimately the key to all this is how well is the heart continuing to work? I know when you think about a heart attack, you think about all sorts of different things happening there, but if the heart pumping capability starts to decrease as a result of heart attacks, that's the critical thing, Campbell.
BROWN: So I guess we should -- presumably he should still be in the hospital right now. They say he's resting comfortably. I mean, all of this sounds normal. You know, he should recover from this, I guess, fully, right?
GUPTA: Yes, you know, I think so. You know, there was a couple of interesting things I read into when we were talking about the statements from the former vice president's office. He was obviously admitted with chest pain. He was found to have a mild heart attack and that was diagnosed by blood test.
When you have a heart attack, you release certain enzymes into the blood stream, and that can be measured. That's how they figured out that he had a heart attack and that it was mild. But he also had a heart catheterization where they're actually looking at these blood vessels within the heart and trying to figure out, are they really narrow? Do they need to be opened up? Does a stent need to be put in there?
What we're hearing is that he just had the catheterization but none of those specific procedures, so they don't anticipate that he's going to have another heart attack any time soon. That's just what the cardiologists are trying to figure out. But it is pretty normal to your question, Campbell, to be in the hospital at least overnight for another night. My guess is probably he'll go tomorrow or the next day, if all is as we've been told. BROWN: Barton, let me bring you in here. I know in doing your reporting for this book and for many other stories, you've gotten to know many people close to Cheney and certainly his family. Have you been able to connect with any of them to get a sense for, you know, how serious this is, how concerned they are?
BARTON GELLMAN, "ANGLER: THE CHENEY VICE PRESIDENCY": Well, actually it's interesting that I've not been able to connect with them today. In the past when there's been something that was genuinely mild, when it was nothing, I got a report that he's wheeled into G.W. in a wheelchair. No, it was just a routine check-up. He went to a dinner party later that night.
BROWN: Right.
GELLMAN: Now they're not answering. He's staying overnight. As far as I know, they've not said whether or not he's in intensive care. The one thing to add to what Sanjay is saying is that he's never released his medical records, and so what accumulative heart damage is after all --
BROWN: Is impossible to know.
GELLMAN: We won't know.
BROWN: He has been very active and engaged and out there, certainly over the course of the last six months, and he made this joke very recently that got a lot of a play, a lot of attention, about possibly, you know, running in 2012. And then it was like, oh, I'm just kidding. But a lot of people do believe it was his heart condition that sort of kept him from pursuing higher office, right?
GELLMAN: People say that. I actually don't think that's the reason, personally. He had his first heart attack in the middle of his first political campaign.
BROWN: He was 37 years old at the time.
GELLMAN: He was 37 years old. He was running and really the only contested election year he ever had because he was trying to get the nomination for the House. He's a guy who just believed in charging Ford. He's been defense secretary in the Persian Gulf War. He had to go through the recount in 2000. A pretty tough eight years as vice president and he's not shied away from hard jobs.
BROWN: Has he actually been trying to stay healthy and changed his lifestyle and done everything that you're supposed to do when something like this happens?
GELLMAN: What I'm told is he's a reasonably compliant patient. You know, he's drinking skim decafs from Starbucks in the morning and a lot of salad and a lot of turkey and fish, but when Lynne isn't looking, he'll heap his plate with barbecue.
BROWN: And, Sanjay, is there something he should be doing, something, you know, anybody can be doing, I guess, at this point or when you've had five heart attacks and that level of damage that you have to assume exists? You know, is there anything you can do to sort of turn back the clock at that point?
GUPTA: Well, you know, it's tough. There's no question to Bart's point, obviously lifestyle changes are always going to be important. But on someone like him, he's got this implantable defibrillator. He's had all these various concerns about his heart. It's really going to be a lot of monitoring I think by his doctors, monitoring that heart function, make sure it's not changing, and really for the former vice president to really rely on his systems. Obviously, he did the right thing as anybody should with chest pains going into the hospital, but certainly even more so in his case. And you know, he's just going to have to be followed very, very closely for these things.
BROWN: All right. Sanjay Gupta for us tonight. Sanjay, thanks as always. And Bart Gellman, author of "Angler: The Cheney Vice Presidency," good to see you as well. Thanks, guys.
GELLMAN: Great.
BROWN: "LARRY KING LIVE" starts in just a few moments. Larry, what do you have for us tonight?
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Campbell, Governors Tim Pawlenty and Bill Richardson here to answer this question, is the government broken? We'll kick around a few other big issues, too.
And then the sister of a former sitcom star is worried sick about her brother. He's missing, and his family fears the worst. And the men's Olympic figure skating champion Evan Lysacek is with us and he's answering your Facebook and Twitter questions. It's all next on "LARRY KING LIVE" -- Campbell.
BROWN: All right, Larry. We'll see you in a few minutes.
Coming up next, tonight's "Guilty Pleasure." An unforgettable road trip with Jeanne Moos at the wheel. We'll talk tollbooth drama when we come back.
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BROWN: "LARRY KING LIVE" starts in just a few moments, but first tonight's "Guilty Pleasure." Toll takers gone wild. Here's Jeanne Moos.
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JEANNE MOOS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The next time you go through a toll, imagine getting your change back, plus saliva.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Patron claims collector spit on his fingers before counting his change and handing it to him.
MOOS: In that case, keep the change. "The Smoking Gun" Web site has obtained 550 complaints about toll takers on the New Jersey turnpike.
(on camera): Like this one is short and sweet.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. Patron dropped a dime. TC toll collector called him a moron.
MOOS (voice-over): These are from motorists so mad, they bother to call in their complaints, sometimes mundane --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And says that they got the wrong change because he was busying on his cell phone ordering a pizza with extra pepperoni.
MOOS: Sometimes unbelievable.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The collector then sprayed him with some type of aerosol spray.
MOOS: For one female motorist, an innocent chat about driving while sleepy turned into a proposition from the toll taker.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have a way of keeping women awake, you know, if you're tired, if you're interested. And then he offers to flash her.
MOOS: Some women complain about being asked out on dates. Now we know of couples who met driving through toll booths on the Massachusetts turnpike. Couples who met and then married. This trucker used to ask his fellow truckers for help finding his favorite toll taker.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I sent somebody ahead to find out what booth she was working that day so I can get the right booth.
MOOS: As for the wrong thing to do --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pennies are like the worst thing you can do to a collector.
MOOS: Drivers trying to pay in pennies found collectors throwing the pennies back at them. We found one on-line comedian paying a 75- cent toll in pennies.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eight, nine, ten. They're getting impatient back there.
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MOOS: Though the toll taker took it well. And then there's the driver who pays with a $100 bill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The toll collector decides they're going to give them all their change in singles, and they said I can see that you have 20s. And the person said you want quarters. MOOS (on camera): All right. We're going to pay with a nice, crisp $100 bill.
(voice-over): Hey, at the Queens Midtown tunnel, we got no attitude.
(on camera): Can I have three 20s, a 10 and some singles?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure.
MOOS: It's like a bank.
(voice-over): After a run-in at a toll, one driver complained --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He looked back, and toll collector was climbing out of the roof screaming to come back to kick patron's ass.
MOOS: We know one guy who used to drive the Jersey turnpike.
Better not try throwing pennies at him.
Jeanne Moos, CNN.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you stay a stamp, postage stamp, 39 cents?
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MOOS: New York.
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BROWN: That's it for us. You can follow me on Twitter any time.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starting right now. See you tomorrow.
