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Campbell Brown
President Obama on the Attack Over Health Care Reform; Schools in Crisis
Aired March 08, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, everybody. An angry President Obama goes after the health insurance companies and his political opponents, that story topping the "Mash-Up." We're watching it all, so you don't have to.
The president left the White House today for a campaign-style rally in Pennsylvania and ripped into the people he says are standing in the way of health care reform. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: If you listen to President Obama today, it's hard to tell which he dislikes more, the political culture of Washington, D.C., or the health insurance industry.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The president sharpened his attack, lashing out against insurance companies.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is no secret. They're telling their investors this. We're in the money.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Against Republicans.
OBAMA: You had 10 years. What happened?
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And Washington itself.
OBAMA: Every debate, no matter how important it is, with the same question, well, what does this mean for the next election?
ED HENRY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: He's trying to reframe this debate. There are so many nervous Democrats looking at the midterms, thinking health care is a loser for them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is by my count, Diane, the fourth final push on health care reform by the way White House, but this time they say they really mean it. They need to get it done this month, because, as you know, Congress, Democrats want to move on to jobs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: President Obama says he wants a health care bill on his desk at the end of this month. Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay says that unemployment benefits keep people from looking for jobs. Now, that theory may come as a surprise to many of the millions of Americans who are out of work right now, but listen to what delay told Candy Crowley. This is Sunday on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. TOM DELAY (R), FORMER HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER: You know, there's -- there is an argument to be made that these extensions of these unemployment benefits keeps people from going and finding jobs.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Congressman, that's such a hard sell, isn't it?
(LAUGHTER)
CROWLEY: It's -- you know, to say...
DELAY: It's the truth.
CROWLEY: ... well, people are unemployed because they want to be?
DELAY: Well, it is the truth. And people in the real world know it. And they have friends that -- and they know it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Last week, the Senate passed a $10 billion short-term measure extending unemployment benefits. That is the measure that was held up for days by Kentucky Republican Jim Bunning.
A California state senator who has repeatedly voted against gay rights measures came out today during a radio interview. Conservative Republican Roy Ashburn was arrested last week on suspicion of driving under the influence. Today, he addressed rumors that he had been visiting a gay nightclub.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to offer you the opportunity to give that explanation. Do you want me to ask you the question, or do you want to just tell people?
ROY ASHBURN (R), CALIFORNIA STATE SENATOR: Well, I am gay. And so I -- those are the words that have been so difficult for me for so long. But I am gay, that it is something that is personal.
And I don't believe -- I felt with my heart that being gay did not affect, wouldn't affect how I do my job. Again, what happened through my own actions the other night changed all that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Ashburn, who is married, said he voted the way his constituents wanted him to vote and will continue to do so.
Toyota went on the offensive today, saying there is nothing wrong with its cars' electronics, and that's in spite of tests that seem to show the electronic throttle system could cause Toyotas to speed out of control.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Our electronics are just fine, thank you, and that's what Toyota will try to prove today in a Webcast. A college professor in Illinois told Congress last month that he fiddled with a Toyota's electronics and actually got the car to accelerate suddenly. Toyota says its recall is about faulty gas pedals, not electronics.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was two weeks ago professor Dave Gilbert of Southern Illinois University showed ABC's Brian Ross what can happen when he manipulated the wires that send signals from the gas pedal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whoa.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The car just suddenly accelerated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A report on his research was aired by ABC News on February 22. But today Toyota's own engineering consultants from a company called Exponent sought to debunk both the research and what was called ABC's dramatized report. Gilbert's conclusions, they said, were based on extreme improbability. So, they did the same thing on a Toyota and other brands, and got the same results. But they argued that they were essentially meaningless.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Toyota has recalled more than eight million vehicles for mechanical problems, including issues related to the gas pedals.
Now to what you could call a moment of Oscar interruptus. This is the moment getting all the buzz, what happened when the director of the short documentary film "Music By Prudence" tried to accept the award. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Music By Prudence," Roger Ross Williams and Elinor Burkett.
ROGER ROSS WILLIAMS, OSCAR WINNER: I never imagined in my wildest dreams that I would end up here. This is so exciting.
(CROSSTALK)
ELINOR BURKETT, OSCAR WINNER: ... the man never lets the woman talk.
(LAUGHTER) BURKETT: Isn't that just the classic thing? In a world in which most of us are told and tell ourselves that we can't, Liyana. the band behind this film, teaches us that we're wrong. Against all odds, they did, so we can.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So, apparently, Roger Ross Williams didn't wait on Burkett to get to the stage before he started delivering his speech. It got very awkward and then even stranger, because Williams and Burkett, both producers on the film, seemed to be the best of friends in the Oscar press room, but she later told the Web site Salon.com that his 87-year-old mother had tried to block her path to the stage with a cane.
Roger Ross Williams will be on "LARRY KING LIVE" tonight to tell his side of the story.
And that brings us to the "Punchline." This is courtesy of Bill Maher. He has got an interesting take on the story of the air traffic controller who let his kids give instructions to pilots.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL MAHER, HOST, "REAL TIME WITH BILL MAHER": The air traffic controller was suspended because he was letting his kid transmit instructions to pilots.
You know what? He was just telling the pilot what his father was telling him. At no time was anybody in danger, although one pilot, I have to admit, was so startled to hear a child's voice, he almost spilled his margarita.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Bill Maher, everybody. And that is the "Mash-Up."
Budget cuts forcing schools to switch to a four-day week, it is happening, but will the cost to students be too high? We have got that story when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Tonight, our nation's schools are facing a serious budget crisis and many being forced to make drastic cuts. And we want you to see one example of how it is changing the way your kids learn.
In Minnesota, the small community of North Branch is switching to a four-day school week starting next year. The students will only attend school Tuesday through Friday. The number of school days will drop from 172 to 149, but each day will now last an hour longer.
Deb Henton is the superintendent in North Branch. And also with me is Steve Perry, who is a CNN education contributor and the principal and founder of Capital Preparatory Magnate School in Hartford, Connecticut.
Welcome to both of you.
Deb, let me start with you here. I know that basically this is your last resort to avoid even bigger cuts. Explain what would have happened,, first, if you didn't make this choice and move to the four- day week?
DEB HENTON, NORTH BRANCH SCHOOL DISTRICT SUPERINTENDENT: Well, thank you very much, Campbell, for having me on tonight to tell North Branch's story.
Unfortunately, since 2003 and 2004, we have cut over $10 million out of our budget, and, with each passing year, it gets harder and harder to keep the cuts away from the classroom.
So, our class sizes are just getting really high. For example, we have 29 students in our first grade classrooms and 26 students in our kindergarten classrooms. So, if we didn't look at the four high day week, we would have to look at additional cuts and adding more students on to teachers who already experience a very high class size in their classroom on a daily basis.
For example, some of my high school teachers see 215 students a day.
BROWN: So, you clearly felt that you had no choice, but what about -- you are hearing this a lot -- I guess the impact on the kids' ability to learn. Other teachers have said it's really hard to keep kids focused for that long a period of time during one school day. Does that worry you?
HENTON: Well, Campbell, we have done the research. We have researched the four-day week for two years, and the studies said that we have looked at said that the academic achievement under a four-day week is neutral. It's neither positive gain, nor a negative gain. So, what We have found is there's a great increase in staff and student attendance.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Let me stop you there, because what -- how did the studies -- I just -- I'm trying to figure out how the studies say that, if you -- if you have an entire day that the children aren't learning where normally they would be? How could that be neutral?
HENTON: Well, because you keep the hours of instruction the same. So, when we go to a four-day week, our students will have the same amount of instruction over the course of the time that they're in school, as they would in a current five-day week. So, you don't lose minutes.
BROWN: But aren't there just more factors, though, that go into account than just the actual -- quote, unquote -- "instruction" into a child's learning, and actually being there, and the socialization, and having access to teachers? Don't you have factor all that in? Are the studies just looking I guess at their test scores, or how do you evaluate it?
HENTON: Well, the studies that we have looked at have looked at a multitude of factors, not just test scores, but, again, attendance, discipline rates, and so on. And you do have to look at a lot of different elements when you're judging the academic merits of a program.
And we know that we have high-quality teachers who have told us they can make this happen. They're ready to make sure that they have engaging activities for the students throughout the lesson. They understand the length of the school day may have an impact on student learning, and so they're prepared to modify their lessons to make sure that the academic learning time is maximized.
BROWN: And before I bring Steve in, just also what about families? You have two working parents in most cases these days, it seems. Families here are already financially strapped who now have to deal with a whole extra day of child care expenses. I'm sure you have heard from parents on that front, right?
HENTON: Yes, we have. And in most of the districts that have gone to the four-day week, this is the number-one concern for families. They're very concerned about day care, but our studies also show that once you implement the four-day week, those concerns typically go away.
And in some cases, parents experience fewer hours for day care for their children than they did in a five-day week. Because of the length of a school day, they may not need before-and-after-school day care, for example.
BROWN: Steve, the North Branch district really isn't alone here. There are dozens of school districts across the country now that are looking at the same choice, a four-day week, or they have got to let teachers go, or they're getting these increases in class size that are unmanageable. What do you do?
STEVE PERRY, CNN EDUCATION CONTRIBUTOR: Well, this is a financial decision, and it's expected to address a financial need, not an academic achievement need.
What we know for sure is that the single greatest indicator or improver of a child's performance in the third grade is more classroom time, not less. In fact, the United States is 27th out of 40 industrialized nations on an examination called a PISA, which is showing that the countries that are higher than us, the countries that are higher than us have shorter school days and longer school years.
I understand very seriously what's going on for Superintendent Henton, but the problem remains that this is an economic decision, where an academic decision needs to be made. We are falling behind because our school systems already are offering shorter school years than the rest of the world, and now we are going to give it an shorter one?
Hers would be just about 7.4 months. We're not even considering just -- we're even not considering the weekend lost. Forget the -- meaning the weekend learning loss. Forget the summer learning loss. We are losing so much every single weekend, when you have children taking three and four days off from school. It's the wrong decision.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: But, Steve, it may be the wrong decision, but the simple fact is you can't make an academic decision without also making an economic decision. None of these decisions, period, can be made in a vacuum. What do you expect her to do?
PERRY: I expect her to understand that many schools are going to have to have larger class sizes, and that in and of itself will not kill academics.
The greater impact to academics will be, will be having the children have less time in class, not more time in class with more students. I would choose more time in class with more students vs. less time in class with less students.
BROWN: Deb, how do your teachers feel about that?
HENTON: The teachers realize that we will have the same amount of hours of instruction over the course of the four-day week as we do with the current five-day week, that -- they understand there's a misperception about that.
They also see the fifth day as an opportunity to help our struggling learners with different programs that we intend to offer, and for our advanced students, that we can offer enrichment activities.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: But they're opposed to more students in the classroom?
HENTON: Teachers generally do not want to see more students in the classroom. When I tell them I'm concerned about fatigue levels, they come back and say, Deb, you know what, we're really concerned about having more students in our classroom. That's more fatiguing than we think a four-day week will be.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Quickly, Steve.
PERRY: Now we're -- yet again we're designing schools to meet the needs of the adults, not the needs of the children. The children need more time on tasks, not less.
And I understand that there are districts all over country, some -- just under 200, who already have a four-day school week, and they're not showing any improvement, none, no improvement. So, I don't know why we would go in a direction that we already know is going to limit children's progress. BROWN: A much bigger problem to be addressed than we have time for tonight. We should definitely revisit this and talk about what some of the other options may be.
Steve and Deb, appreciate both of your time tonight. Thanks so much for coming on.
PERRY: Thank you.
HENTON: Thank you very much for having me.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: When we come back, the health care battle getting so ugly that one Democrat is now calling the White House chief of staff a son of the devil's spawn. We are going to look at what the White House needs to do to get back on message when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Just hours ago, a Democratic congressman resigned, saying the health care battle within his own party has a lot to do why he's out of a job. Of course, New York's Eric Massa is caught up in an ethics probe over alleged sexual harassment.
But Massa says he was targeted by fellow Democrats when he said he would vote no on health care.
On a radio show this weekend, Massa singled out President Obama's chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
REP. ERIC MASSA (D), NEW YORK: If you think that somehow they didn't come after me to get rid of me because my vote is the deciding vote in the health care bill, then, ladies and gentlemen, you live today in a world that is so innocent as to not understand what is going on in Washington, D.C.
Rahm Emanuel is son of the devil's spawn. He's an individual who would sell his mother to get a vote. He would strap his children to the front end of a steam locomotive.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BROWN: Ouch.
Well, Massa's parting shot comes as buzz swirls inside Washington about the administration's handling of the health care message more generally.
And with me now to talk about that is Mark Halperin of "TIME" magazine and Mark Leibovich of "The New York Times."
Welcome to both of you. Mark Halperin, let me just sort of get this out of the way, the congressman saying that he has -- or is being bumped off because he was a no vote on health care reform. Is there any truth to that?
MARK HALPERIN, SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST, "TIME": Hard to give the guy a lot of credibility. He says Rahm Emanuel is the son of the devil's spawn. Anyone who has dealt with Rahm knows that Rahm is the devil's spawn.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: He's not the son of?
(LAUGHTER)
HALPERIN: Not the son of.
(LAUGHTER)
HALPERIN: The congressman is making a lot of accusations on his way out the door. There's no indication that any of the stuff, the accusations he's making about why he's leaving are accurate. It conflicts with what he himself has said. And it's been challenged all around.
I have no reason to credit his explanation or his accusation. The White House is not -- was never counting on his vote to pass health care.
BROWN: And, Mark Leibovich, again, to Mark's point, not often that a member of Congress uses this tone, this sort of language, son of the devil's spawn. Rahm Emanuel has been at the center of a lot of chatter recently, sort of media chatter, lots of palace intrigue going on.
How much of a distraction is that, given what's hanging in the balance right now?
MARK LEIBOVICH, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Well, it's certainly something they don't need and it's something that the president himself last week or maybe it was two weeks ago addressed in a senior staff meeting, which is not to feed into the palace intrigue, which frankly the Obama administration and before that the Obama campaign just loathed, just process stories of any kind, I mean, personality stories, staff-driven stories.
So, no, the Massa thing, obviously, it's a bad story for Democrats. It's a scandal. It's a resignation. But insomuch as it also focuses more attention on Rahm Emanuel, who has had plenty in the last few weeks, after a few big newspaper stories and magazine stories about him, is not welcome by any stretch.
BROWN: But it's not just Rahm Emanuel either. Speaking of palace intrigue, Mark, you recently spent time inside the White House profiling David Axelrod, who is sort of the political guru there. And your article quotes, I think, a number of people talking about he and others essentially, as you put it, took the president's great strength as a messenger and failed to use it smartly. How did they respond to that, that criticism?
LEIBOVICH: Well, I mean, the criticism in the White House is -- the most recurring criticism you hear is, this is an impossible messaging environment.
Obviously, the message they were able to craft in the campaign, which was brilliantly effective, change you can believe in, is much different and much more challenging now in a governing environment. And a campaign and a governing environment are very, very, very different.
David Axelrod oversees the message, which is basically how you can -- how you distill for the American people what a president is going to do, what his vision is and so forth. And, obviously, it's been a very reactive administration, in that they have to react to events, as any administration is.
Obviously, there's talk of some kind of schism between the message people, as embodied by Axelrod, and the operations people, as embodied by Emanuel. They obviously both dispute that, but obviously palace intrigue is not something they need to be focusing on, when health care seems to be coming down to the wire and the next few weeks are going to be make-or-break.
BROWN: Mark Halperin, the president in Pennsylvania today -- we played a little bit of it earlier -- sort of selling his message, generally challenging lawmakers to put this chatter aside, put the politics aside.
Let's listen to a little bit of what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: When you're in Washington, folks respond to every issue, every decision, every debate, no matter how important it is, with the same question. Well, what does this mean for the next election? What should I tell these Americans? That Washington's not sure how it will play in November, that we should walk away from this fight?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So what is -- OK, that's his public message, his plea to Americans, his public plea to lawmakers. What's going on behind the scenes? What are they telling members of Congress right now behind the scenes?
HALPERIN: It's a version of that. And that's the great strength of that event today, when the president can say to the public what he's basically saying in private.
He's appealing, though, a little bit more nakedly in these meetings with lawmakers, Democratic lawmakers, to their sense of his presidency hanging in the balance. In public, he's talking about the fact that this is a moral issue, that people will write to him and say, I can't get health care, I have lost my health care, and that people in Congress should be brave enough to vote for what they think is right, rather than worrying about the next election.
He is saying those things in private, too, but what they're also saying is, there's no -- failure is not an option. They are going to move off of health care in a couple weeks either having passed it with Democratic-only votes or having not passed it. And it's going to be a lot better for Democrats if they pass it.
BROWN: And are they going to pass it?
HALPERIN: I think they are. They're not there yet. They don't have the number of votes. When Scott Brown won that Massachusetts Senate race, Democrats despaired. They said, uh-oh, this kills health care.
In the end, it may be easier for them this way, as much as the near-death experiences will be, because they just have to pass it in the House. Once they pass it in the House, then there's the reconciliation bill that cleans some things up. But the one tough vote to get to a majority in the House, I think they're pretty close. They're probably within 15, maybe 20 votes. And I think they are going to get there.
BROWN: We will see if you're right. Mark Halperin, we will hold you to it.
And, Mark Leibovich, as well.
Thanks so much, guys. Appreciate it.
LEIBOVICH: Thanks, Campbell.
BROWN: Still ahead: Medical marijuana, it's the new go-to drug for stressed-out moms, apparently -- a special investigation coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: It is one of the hottest news trends sweeping the burbs, apparently. It's not Botox or Pilates, but pot.
And these aren't bleary-eyed teens we're talking about here. Apparently, more and more, it's women, middle-class soccer moms, choosing marijuana over booze or prescription bills to try to relax, to cut stress, and to treat much more serious medical conditions. But even the legal use of pot involves risks. So here now is Abbie Boudreau of CNN special investigations unit.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
"MARIA," MARIJUANA MOM: I try to be in the room because this is the furthest from the house, and then being upstairs I'm hoping that the air would go up. I just put a little bit in there. ABBIE BOUDREAU, CNN SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS UNIT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As a mother, this image may seem all wrong. But for "Maria," she says she needs it to get through the day. She's a marijuana mom. And she's part of a growing number of women who smoke pot, either for fun or for medical reasons.
"MARIA": Before medical marijuana, even before him, I couldn't even really work that well because I was just constantly nauseous, and then I wasn't able to eat and sometimes I would vomit all the time so then I'd end up in the hospital dehydrated.
What do you want?
BOUDREAU: "Maria" has a 2-year-old son. We agreed not to show his face. She says pot makes her a better mom. For years she suffered with severe intestinal problems. Still even the smell of food makes her feel sick. She says she tried prescription painkillers like Vicodin, Percocet and Fentanyl patches.
"MARIA": In regards to the prescriptions that I was on, there's a couple years I don't even really remember.
BOUDREAU: But in Colorado, there was one other option she could try.
"MARIA": I keep, you know, just maybe an ounce.
BOUDREAU: 'Maria," who asked that we not use her real name, says her doctor recommended marijuana to treat her condition, and it's perfectly legal.
(on camera): There are 14 states in the U.S. that legally allow medical marijuana use. But despite changing attitudes, there's still a stigma, and that's why some parents fear their children may be taken away, and so many of them keep it a secret.
"MARIA": That's why I don't want to show my son's face and I'm worried about somebody just being out there and maybe they work for social services around here and they think, you know what? I really have an issue with that. And maybe they'll go out and they decide, I want to go and try to find who this person is and I'm going to investigate them.
BOUDREAU (voice-over): Denver's child welfare division says it does not remove children from homes of medical marijuana users without reason. However, officials add, "We are concerned with how the use of any substance impacts parenting, how the children are supervised while the parent is using, and if the child has access to the substance."
David Lyman is living "Maria"'s worst fears.
HANNA, DAVID LYMAN'S DAUGHTER: Come on.
BOUDREAU: His 7-year-old daughter, Hanna (ph), was taken away from him in a custody battle in 2007.
BOUDREAU (on camera): Are you OK?
(voice-over): Lyman says using pot helps him deal with chronic back and neck pain as well as injuries sustained in two motorcycle accidents.
(on camera): He says his wife knew he was using marijuana while they were married, but that it became the central issue in their visitation fight.
(voice-over): The judge decided Lyman could no longer visit Hanna on his own, just father and daughter, unless he stopped using pot altogether. He's now appealing two court decisions.
(on camera): Why not just stop using the medical marijuana, and you'll get your daughter back?
DAVID LYMAN, MARIJUANA DAD: Oh, that's what they're trying to force me to do, and you know what? I'd do it, too, if I didn't really need medical marijuana. But because I do, I have no choice but to fight this fight.
BOUDREAU (voice-over): Lyman admits he used marijuana well before it was legal. He says to self-medicate. In 2006, he was convicted of growing pot at his home. Now, he legally uses the drug and showed us his medical marijuana card. He says he doesn't understand how his child could be taken away, just by following Colorado law and his doctor's orders.
LYMAN: What more proof do you want? No harm or accident came to my daughter nor will it ever.
BOUDREAU: But Lori Moriarty, a former police officer in Colorado, says she's heard stories like this before.
LORI MORIARTY, NATL ALLIANCE FOR DRUG ENDANGERED CHILDREN: When I was the undercover drug commander, I had 4-year-olds drawing meth labs, drawing smoke, pot pipes, drawing bongs. They knew exactly what their parents were doing.
BOUDREAU: Moriarty is now a vice president of the National Alliance for Drug Endangered Children. She concedes there are some parents who use pot for legitimate health reasons, but is convinced many more moms and dads are simply abusing the law.
MORIARTY: For the first seven years, we had 1,600 people who actually registered to receive their marijuana cards or medicinal marijuana, and in the last year alone we're up to 60,000 with more than 1,200 applying daily.
BOUDREAU: In 2008, according to the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, more than four million women, ages 18 to 64, used marijuana nationwide. That's up from the year before.
Back at home with "Maria" and her son, they're making lunch. It's "Maria"'s toughest part of the day. Being around food makes her feel nauseous. She does what she can to ease the pain herself, but then she's off for a hit. And another. Six, maybe more on her bad days.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And Abbie Boudreau is joining us right now. And you said it there, six or more hits? That's a lot of pot. Where is she getting it?
BOUDREAU: Well, she grows her pot at home. A lot of other people go to dispensaries. And actually when we were in Denver, we went to several dispensaries, and I mean, they have pot in any form you could possibly imagine. And we saw pot lasagna, we saw it, of course, in brownies, different pastries, even topical cream for older people who might have arthritis. "Maria," she uses -- she feels as though when she inhales it, it gets rid of the pain fastest.
BROWN: What about her child? Does she worry about the environment? You know, the healthiness of the environment given that she's got a child?
BOUDREAU: I mean she says she feels like her home is a safe place for her child. You know, she doesn't think that by going upstairs, closing the door in the bathroom and using her medical marijuana that it's putting her child in any sort of risk. And we also -- people who are watching us, they might be wondering what was it that she was using that big -- that's a way of vaporizing the marijuana so there's less smoke created as opposed to if you already used, you know, a joint, smoke a joint.
BROWN: All right. Interesting stuff. Abbie Boudreau for us tonight. Abbie, thanks very much.
Still ahead, we've got more questions for the NFL star Ben Roethlisberger. Why police plan to question the quarterback again after a young woman accuses him of sexual assault. That's when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: New developments in the sexual assault investigation of Pittsburgh Steelers' Ben Roethlisberger. While no charges have been filed, Georgia police today announced they plan to re-interview the quarterback and soon. This after undergoing questioning Friday when a 20-year-old woman accused him of sexually assaulting her in a Georgia nightclub. Meantime, Roethlisberger is also being sued by a woman who claims he raped her in 2008 at a Lake Tahoe casino.
Joining us right now is "Philadelphia Enquirer" columnist Stephen A. Smith, who is with me here in New York, and CNN legal analyst Lisa Bloom with us as well.
And, Lisa, just bring us up to date on what we know about this investigation so far.
LISA BLOOM, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, police today said they're going to continue their investigation. The incident happened allegedly on Friday night. They did interviewed Roethlisberger then, as well as the accuser and some witnesses now.
This is an interesting situation, because there are a number of witnesses. They met at a nightclub. They may have gone to other nightclubs, so there would be a large number of witnesses potentially who at least saw these two interacting. We don't know if there's any witness to the alleged sexual assault or not, so the police investigation is ongoing. As you say, no charges have been filed, no arrest has been made. I take that to mean that the police don't have probable cause at this point, but they have enough reason to believe that the investigation should continue. The woman called the police immediately, went to the hospital for treatment, and was released immediately.
BROWN: So, Stephen, he is one of the more popular players in the NFL. Give us a little bit about his background, who this guy is and what's being talked about.
STEPHEN A. SMITH, COLUMNIST, "THE PHILADELPHIA ENQUIRER": Well, to most sports fan, all it matters is that he's a two-time Super Bowl champion quarterback for the Pittsburgh Steelers. To others, you know, you remember the motorcycle accident that he got into when he was riding without a helmet and he ultimately almost killed himself quite honestly because he got into an accident because of that. Then you remember this charge that was levied against him last July. It's a civil suit, not a criminal case.
BROWN: Right.
SMITH: Obviously it's still pending and then now you have this incident. So people are looking at him. Nationally you hear that he has this pristine image. He's loved, you know, very affable personality, those kind of things. But people inside the city of Pittsburgh will tell you a slightly different story. They'll tell you about somebody who is a winner but somebody who's been rude in the past. They don't necessarily like him as much as they like his teammate Troy Polamalu. Things of that nature and that his image while not, definitely not necessarily tarnished, it's questionable to some degree in terms of his attitude but certainly nothing of the legal issue up until last year, last July and now.
BROWN: So what about his teammates and the NFL standing behind him?
SMITH: Well, they'll swear by him. The teammates are going to swear by him because that's the code. First of all, you're innocent until proven guilty in the United States of America. Secondly, in the NFL as in any professional sports league, you stand by your teammate because you consider that a family. And unless you have hardcore evidence to prove otherwise, you are going to stand by your family member and particularly when they're the star quarterback of the team that helps you make money because he facilitates your success.
If you're in the NFL, you're in kind of a quandary here because Roger Goodell usually doesn't depend on the innocence or guilt of an individual in order to act. As the commissioner of the NFL, "Mr. Disciplinarian" is what I call him. This is a guy that has stepped in as the successor to former Commissioner Paul Tagliabue and he said we are going to protect the image of the NFL. And if guys don't know how to act, whether or not you're exonerated in a court of law, the court of public opinion matters to me because it affects our bottom line, because he has acted the image of the league. He has acted before. It will be very, very interesting to see how he acts with Ben Roethlisberger now that Roethlisberger has been accused not once but twice within a year.
BROWN: And to that point, Lisa, just address that a little bit, the fact that you have accusations from two women unrelated, obviously, and clearly accusations at this point. But when there are two people involved here, what does that mean in terms of the impact they're likely to have on each other?
BLOOM: Well, I think in most people's minds that slightly enhances the credibility of each of them. The case that was filed last year was dismissed by a lot of people because that accuser never went to the police. She simply filed a civil case and she did that a year after the alleged incident. And she didn't just sue him. She sued Harris Hotel where she worked, and she alleged a conspiracy and a cover-up. So those are pretty difficult allegations to prove in court. Maybe she will prove them but she hasn't done that yet.
This woman on Friday went to the police immediately and presumably wants criminal charges filed. That's exactly what we want women to do if they are sexually assaulted. Go to the police immediately. Don't take a shower, don't change your clothes. Immediately go there, go to the hospital and have the rape kit done. And if indeed there is some DNA evidence, some hair, fiber, skin, bruising, lacerations, anything to indicate a sexual assault, the police are going to take that much more seriously.
SMITH: Well, Lisa, feel free to correct me here, because I think one of the points to make is that that woman in the civil case in Reno, Nevada, apparently a friend of hers came out and said she was bragging about having had consensual sex with Ben Roethlisberger. So even though the case is still pending, that case is somewhat suspect to begin with. And then when you talk about sexual assault in this particular situation, allegedly it may have occurred in a bathroom or what have you, it's unclear, but the bottom line is that it's subject to interpretation about exactly what transpired and exactly what some people would say is sexual assault. Was he groping you? Did he touch you? Did he graze you? How are you looking at it? What specifically are you saying Ben Roethlisberger did to you? And that's the situation --
BROWN: All right. Lisa, quickly, last word, because we don't know the answers to any of these questions.
SMITH: Right.
BROWN: I don't want to get into a whole speculative thing about it but --
BLOOM: Right. I don't think it's up to any of us to prejudge the evidence at this point. The police need to do an investigation. That's what the police are going to do and hopefully they'll get to the bottom of it.
BROWN: Stephen A. Smith, Lisa Bloom, thanks, guys. Appreciate it.
When we come back, armed bandits stick up a high stakes poker tournament and make off with quite a big pot. We're going to talk to one of the card players who saw it go down. He was scared but didn't fold, apparently. He actually won the whole thing. We'll explain when we come back.
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BROWN: A high stakes poker tournament held up by armed bandits, and it's all caught on tape. But first, Mike Galanos here with tonight's "Download."
Hey there, Mike.
MIKE GALANOS, HLN PRIME NEWS: Hey, Campbell. First off, Haiti has released one of the remaining two American missionaries still being held on child abduction charges. 24-year-old Charisa Coulter was handed over to U.S. officials. The Americans were arrested in January as they attempted to take 33 Haitian children to an orphanage in the Dominican Republic. It turns out some of the children have living parents. Now the leader of the group remains in custody.
Incredible video here. Two people arrested after leading police on a scary high speed chase that started in Missouri, ended in Kansas. Look at that. The young man driving this red jeep plowing, going through back yards, plowing through a fence, as you saw there. Going the wrong way at one point on the interstate, going about 100 miles an hour. Here weaving through backyards. Thankfully nobody was out. Thankfully no kids were out playing. It was really frightening to watch this for a while. It went on for about 100 miles. Finally ended, the guy ends up in a wooded area, jumped out, made a run for it and was arrested as they cornered him on the top of a building. Incredible scene there.
Finally this, you've seen those highway signs, watch for falling rocks, here's why. Seventeen miles of Interstate 70 in western Colorado shut down after massive boulders fell onto the road. Now 25,000 drivers use this stretch of highway every day. Thankfully no injuries reported.
Campbell, back to you.
BROWN: Mike Galanos for us tonight. Mike, thanks very much.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starts in just a few moments. Coming up, though, the custody battle over an infant girl pulled from the rubble in Haiti. Is she really an orphan or not? That when we come back.
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BROWN: A custody battle has erupted over an infant girl just a few months old who was rescued from a pile of rubble in Haiti and flown to a hospital in Florida. Everyone was convinced she was orphan, but now, as Elizabeth Cohen reports, a Haitian couple says the baby is theirs. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I was at this hospital in Port-au-Prince about seven weeks ago when I witnessed an incredible rescue of a tiny baby. She was just two months old when she was pulled from the rubble. She'd been there alone for five days.
The baby girl was near death, barely breathing. Doctors from Project Medishare at the University of Miami fought to stabilize her so they could fly her to a hospital in the United States.
Doctors here thought the baby was an orphan and told the ambulance driver they named the baby after her if she got to the plane on time. And she did. The driver's name was Patricia.
I thought it was a simple happy ending, but it turns out this story is far from simple. A couple from Haiti has now come forward claiming that baby Patricia is their daughter. They say she's no orphan and that her name isn't even Patricia. It's Jenny, and they want her back.
We're told the parents live here in one Canape-Vert, in one of these tent cities. I'm going to go try to find them.
What does that mean? What do those words mean? It's beautiful?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Every time I think about Jenny I want to go crazy. I want to lose my mind.
COHEN (voice-over): This man, Junior Alexis, and his wife Nadine Devilme say they're the baby's parents.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And this is the baby's pediatric card.
COHEN (on camera): And these are all her vaccinations, doctor's notes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Doctor's notes.
COHEN: OK. So you say this is your baby?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Yes, Jenny is my daughter.
COHEN: Now how does it feel as a mother to know that your baby has just flown off without you to another country?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE TRANSLATOR: She said I have a lot of problems. She said, "I can't sleep and it's giving me a lot of problems. And this is a bible that I've had since the baby was worn. And the bible was under the baby's head always and she found the bible."
COHEN: So this bible says Jenny Alexis born November 1, 2009 --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At 10:00 p.m.
COHEN: At 10:00 p.m. I've told their story to many people, and some people say this is just a couple in Haiti that wants to get to the United States. They're claiming a baby that's not theirs. What do they say to that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE TRANSLATOR: "We don't know about that," he said. We just have a baby that they took. They're helping us, they took the baby, but we're here. And then we're happy that they're helping the baby. But it's a help, but we need our baby.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COHEN: I spoke this afternoon with a Florida official who said that he's quite convinced that these two people are the parents and he thinks an upcoming DNA test will confirm it -- Campbell.
BROWN: Oh, I hope they figure it out. Elizabeth Cohen for us tonight. Elizabeth, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starts in just a few minutes. But next, masked men raid a high stakes poker tournament grabbing the prize money and getting away. We're going to talk to a card player who saw it all happen and still won over $1 million.
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BROWN: Today, German police called the gang that dramatically robbed a high stakes poker game a bunch of amateurs who will soon be caught. Here's why. They did it all on camera.
Take a look at this. Four bandits carrying guns and machetes stormed the Berlin event on Saturday. As frightened card players ran or dived under the tables, the bandits grabbed the prize money. Security guards put up a fight but the robbers got away with about 300,000 dollars in euros. American player Kevin MacPhee was in the middle of a hand when it all went down, and he went on to win the tournament.
So, Kevin, just walk us through this. It's day four of the tournament, and things had been going pretty well for you. But then all of a sudden it's pure chaos. Take us through what happened.
KEVIN MACPHEE, WITNESSED POKER HEIST: I mean, yeah, we were in the middle of playing a hand, and all of a sudden we started to hear screaming and yelling from the back of the room. And we turned around and saw a wave of people rush towards the exit.
It was just pure panic, actually. The TV stage started to collapse, and we all kind of ducked down because we assumed that there was somebody with a gun in the room. But really, a lot of injuries that happened during the robbery were just caused from panic within the room, and I was glad nobody was seriously injured.
BROWN: And everybody, you know, sort of calmed down afterwards and came back to continue playing?
MACPHEE: Well, yes. I thought it was a little unusual, you know, something like this happens and we're asked to come back and play for one million euros just a few hours later. I thought we'd have the day off, but you know, we all came back. And the tournament staff and security and players all worked together to make sure that we could finish the event and not let it ruin our whole trip here. My hats off to the organizers of the event and the security.
BROWN: Security guys -- well, and to you, as well. Kevin. You won like a million bucks or something. Thanks for joining us and telling the story. Appreciate your time. Kevin MacPhee for us.
That's it for us. We've got to go. "LARRY KING LIVE" starting right now. Have a good one.
