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Campbell Brown
President Obama Turns Up Heat on Health Care Reform; Interview With South Carolina Congressman James Clyburn
Aired March 15, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hey there, everybody.
Our top story tonight: President Obama turning up the heat on the congressional holdouts who could doom health care reform. That news tops the "Mash-Up" tonight. We're watching it all, so you don't have to.
The president in Ohio today taking his fight to the district of one reluctant lawmaker. In an interview with ABC News, Obama says it's time for Congress to do its job.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are a lot of Americans who are very afraid of this bill and they are represented by members of Congress who are worried about voting for it.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A lot of the misinformation about death panels or this was a government takeover of health care turned out not to be true.
For most people who already have health insurance, they're not going to see much of a change except they will have more protection in the insurance that they already have. But for millions of Americans, they will be in a more secure position and the federal government and state governments are going to be in a position where they're not running these huge outside multibillion-dollar deficits over and over again each year.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have the votes?
OBAMA: Appreciate you. I believe we're going to get the votes. We're going to make this happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Coming up, we're going to talk with the man who is actually in charge of counting votes for the Democrats. Congressman Jim Clyburn said that they were not there as of yesterday. We are going to ask him if anything has changed today.
In California, the mystery of the runaway Prius. You remember that story? We were all tracking it last week. Well, it's getting a little deeper. The driver is standing by his story that his car went out of control on the highway -- this as Toyota officials are now openly challenging him, saying their investigation does not back up his claims.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM SIKES, PRIUS DRIVER: I was in the 80s somewhere. And I kept hitting the brakes, kept hitting the brakes, and it was not slowing down at all. It was just accelerating.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yet, after two hours of trying to duplicate what happened on Sikes' own car and another exact model, federal investigators and Toyota came up short.
MIKE MICHELS, VICE PRESIDENT, TOYOTA MOTOR SALES USA: The accelerator pedal was tested and found to be working normally, with no mechanical binding or friction.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Toyota says there's evidence the driver, Jim Sikes, lightly rode the brakes off and on more than 250 times over 30 miles, rather than applying constant pressure, like he told police.
MICHELS: I think it also has to be mentioned that there are human factors. No one likes to talk about that. But people do make mistakes in driving.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The notion that they weren't able to replicate it in this particular case really tells us nothing. They haven't been able to replicate a single one of these.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you going to sue?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, definitely not. Mr. Sikes has no interest in suing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And we're going to have a lot more on this very strange story coming up in just a bit.
Tonight, the State Department is warning Americans to steer clear of areas of northern Mexico -- this after a brutal weekend of drug violence that killed three people associated with the U.S. Consulate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: A pregnant American Consulate employee and her U.S. husband were killed in one attack. Their 10-month-old child survived. Now the husband of a Mexican Consulate employee was killed and two children wounded in it another shooting. Mexican authorities say they were targeted by a gang tied to drug traffickers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mexican police working these cases are being joined by U.S. officials from the FBI, the DEA and other agencies, and they're bringing with them a network of intelligence gatherers to try to locate the killers. RAFAEL ROMO, CNN SENIOR LATIN AMERICAN AFFAIRS EDITOR: I spoke on the phone with the mayor of Juarez, Jose Reyes Ferriz, who tells me they believe, they believe at this point a local gang known as Los Aztecas, the Aztecs, may have been responsible for the killings.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These are the first deadly hits on American diplomatic personnel in Mexico's drug war.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a way for the drug traffickers to send a signal to the U.S. government.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Meantime, Texas Governor Rick Perry wants to send a signal right back. He sent a letter to the Department of Homeland Security asking for Predator drones to patrol the border.
Up north, some battered states got beat up by the rain this weekend. And, tonight, hundreds of thousands remain without power.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Heavy rain and hurricane-force winds blew down trees and power lines. Authorities are linking at least seven deaths to the nor'easter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From waterlogged Washington, D.C., to the coastal and riverside towns in Rhode Island and Massachusetts, rainwater and high water and relentless winds made for a miserable weekend and a daunting task of recovery for millions.
KATIE COURIC, HOST, "CBS EVENING NEWS": The storm brought heavy rain from three inches in Philadelphia to more than eight outside Portland, Maine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seventy-mile-per-hour wind gusts as powerful as a hurricane tore through communities across the Northeast and New England. The force of the sprawling storm and heavy rain mangled power lines and ripped trees from their roots.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Few expected that the storm would trigger more 911 calls in New York City, 65,000, than the 9/11 attacks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: In other weather woes, the Midwest is bracing for floods after its own heavy rainfall as well.
And on now to the watercooler story du jour. She kept quiet for two years, but now the woman at the heart of the John Edwards sex scandal tells all.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rielle Hunter tells "GQ" magazine she is still in love with Johnny and believes he still loves her, too. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hunter said that her first words to Edwards were -- quote -- "You're so hot," but that Edwards was the one who seduced her and that they had sex the night they met.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She says John Edwards was involved with other women outside his marriage before her, but their relationship a special connection.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Edwards feared his cancer stricken-wife Elizabeth, saying, if she found out, he would be pummeled, and that the then presidential candidate hoped Hunter would get an abortion.
BARBARA WALTERS, CO-HOST, "THE VIEW": She said that, when she saw the pictures, precisely the pictures that you called, she said she found them repulsive. When I asked, well, if that was the case, then why did you pose the way you did, she said that she trusted Mark Seliger, who she said is a brilliant photographer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And we're going to have a lot more on this story a little later tonight. We will also hear from the man who once claimed to be the father of Hunter's baby, former Edwards aide Andrew Young.
And that brings us to the "Punchline" tonight. This is courtesy of the folks at "Saturday Night Live" taking a shot at Eric Massa with an assist from Jerry Seinfeld.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JERRY SEINFELD, COMEDIAN: And when Larry King asked you if were gay, you said, ask my wife or ask the 10,000 guys I served with in the Navy.
(LAUGHTER)
SEINFELD: Really?
(LAUGHTER)
SETH MEYERS, ACTOR: Also, really, when crafting a sentence denying your homosexuality, try to leave out phrases like 10,000 guys or names of Village People songs like "In the Navy."
(LAUGHTER)
MEYERS: You might as well said, I'm not gay. Just ask the guys down at the YMCA.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Seth Meyers and Jerry Seinfeld, everybody.
And that is the "Mash-Up." President Obama's yearlong battle over health care coming to a head this week, but does he have the votes within his own ranks? We're going to talk about that with a leader within the Democratic Party right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: It is the most crucial week of President Obama's health care battle, with the House expected to vote on the health reform bill just days from now, the result far from certain, with Democrats still divided.
And, today, the president gave a fiery speech in Ohio and made it personal, telling the story of a woman named Natoma Canfield, who couldn't afford to keep her coverage and was just diagnosed with leukemia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: So you want to know why I'm here, Ohio? I'm here because of Natoma.
(APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: I'm here because of the countless others who have been forced to face the most terrifying challenges in their lives with the added burden of medical bills they can't pay. I don't think that's right.
(APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: Neither do you. That's why we need health insurance right now. Health insurance reform right now.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So, does the president have the votes to get it done?
The man who counts them is Congressman and House Majority Whip James Clyburn. He is joining me right now.
Congressman, welcome to you.
You are the one who does know the math. Yesterday, you said that you didn't yet have the votes you needed to pass this. Give us an update. In the last 24 hours, did you make any progress?
(LAUGHTER)
REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D), SOUTH CAROLINA: Oh, yes, we are making progress. Nothing much has changed in terms of the final result. We need to get to 216. And we're still tweaking stuff.
We don't have the final numbers from CBO yet. And some of our members are very concerned about how this is paid for and how much it will cost. We have got preliminary numbers, but we don't have final numbers. And we're not asking these members to commit until such time that we can share with them what those final numbers are.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Just, if I can stop you for a second...
CLYBURN: Sure.
BROWN: .. when are you going to get those final numbers?
CLYBURN: Well, only CBO knows. We hope we will get them tonight. We heard no later than tomorrow.
But they're sort of independent. And we can't tell them what to do or when to do it. We're sort of at their mercy. And, so, we're waiting to get those numbers.
BROWN: So -- so, how -- you know, when you -- you anticipate you will get the numbers. You will let these members have a -- have time to look at them. When that happens, so let's say another 24 hours go by, how certain are you that, at the end of the day, you are going to get to the number you need to?
CLYBURN: I am very comfortable as to where we are. I think that we have reached a significant consensus in our caucus. The will is there to get this done. They're asking us, as the leaders of the party, to find a way to do it.
And I think that, come the weekend, we will be where we need to be in order to get the 216 votes that are required.
BROWN: So, who are you having a tougher time convincing right now? Is it some of those conservative Democrats who want to see tough language on abortion, or is it more the progressives, who think that the bill doesn't go far enough? Or is it the people that you are talking about who want to see the actual cost?
Who is it in those three groups, I guess, who's putting up the most resistance?
CLYBURN: Well, I don't think you can apply any ratio or percentages of disagreements.
I think that everybody has got some concerns. I mean, I want to know how much this thing is going to cost. And I want to make sure that the language is right on abortions. And I am very comfortable that we will be where we need to be before the vote is cast.
So, I think it's a little bit unfair to ask people to just give you a hard and fast commitment, when you don't have a hard and fast number. And so that's where we are. People have that told that: If the number is what you say it is, then I'm all right. But I need to see the number and be sure the CBO has spoken before I give you my commitment. BROWN: And let me just finally ask you, Congressman, I know you're hearing this from a lot of people. A lot of those members are thinking about November. And a lot of them are saying you to: If I do what you want me to do, I may lose my seat.
How do you respond to that?
CLYBURN: Well, there are some members who have those concerns, absolutely. All of us would love to leave office upon retirement. And we don't want that to happen at the hands of the voters.
But we also want this country to get rid of discrimination against people because of preexisting conditions. We want to get rid of recisions because get catastrophic illnesses. We want to make sure that young people can stay on their parents' insurance until they get up to 27, so they can go to professional schools.
They want that done. And the only way for us to do that is to pass this bill. So, I think that, sure, members ought to be concerned about their reelections. But I also believe that they're very concerned about the welfare of the American people, and they will put that in front of the next election.
BROWN: Well, we will see if you are right about that.
Congressman James Clyburn, I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to us tonight.
CLYBURN: Thank you so much for having me.
BROWN: I want to bring in our senior political analyst right now Gloria Borger as well.
And, Gloria, I want you to give us a little bit of the White House perspective on all this. I know you have been talking to some of the folks over there.
How are they feeling right now? And what sort of things beyond what we saw the president do today in Ohio are they doing to try to turn up the heat on this holdout?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: First of all, they're feeling a little bit more optimistic. I was told today by a senior White House adviser that Nancy Pelosi has some folks in her back pocket, some Democrats who are saying, look, we want to vote no on this bill, but if you absolutely need us, we don't want to be the deciding vote against health care reform, so you will get us if you need us.
So, that makes them feel a little better. On the larger question, what they have been doing is talking to Democrats and saying, look, think about this. You have already taken the tough vote on health care. Why do you want it to be meaningless? Don't you want your vote to show an accomplishment?
You have got to go home to the voters in six months and you have got to show them what we have achieved as a governing majority. And if you have nothing large to show them and you have been working on this for a year, that's going to be bad for you.
Then the White House is also handing out a list of things, Campbell, that they say voters are going to look at and see right away before the next election, like preexisting conditions for children are covered. If your child is 26, up to 26 years old, they can stay on your health insurance, better prescription drug policies for seniors.
These are things they say voters are going to see right away, and, if they didn't like the bill, they're going to decide they like it.
BROWN: So let's say the president signs health care reform, you know, within a month. How does he make sure, then, that what you say is true, that his party doesn't lose the majority in November?
BORGER: Well, you know, there are some Republicans -- I mean, I talked to Karl Rove -- you remember him, Campbell -- about this...
BROWN: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
BORGER: ... about this last week. And he said to me, look, you know, if the Democrats pass health care reform, that absolutely means they're going to lose the House, because it's going to be bad for the Democrats.
I will tell you, most people I talk to say, that's not the case. The Democrats have to have an achievement, and a victory is better than a loss. And the president has told these Democrats: I'm going to be behind you. I'm going to be out there with you in your districts. We're going to campaign together. You're going to get all the money you need that we can raise and we're going to show that we can govern, and once we finish health care, we will start doing other things like, for example, bank regulation, financial reform.
BROWN: All right. Well, we will be watching for sure.
BORGER: Me, too.
BROWN: Gloria Borger, many thanks, Gloria. I will see you soon.
BORGER: Sure.
BROWN: When we come back, you remember that runaway Prius we were all talking about, about a week ago? Well, now Toyota claims that it has found, in their words, significant inconsistencies with that driver's story. Was this a hoax, possibly?
We're going to have that when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Toyota is firing back tonight. They are challenging a California man's claim that his Prius sped out of control along a San Diego highway last week. The automaker says Jim Sikes' runaway Prius story just doesn't add up.
And Ted Rowlands has been looking into this for us. He has more on this -- Ted.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
SIKES: My car, I can't slow down.
911 OPERATOR: You can't slow it down?
(CROSSTALK)
SIKES: No.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When Jim Sikes called 911, he claimed his 2008 Prius was accelerating out of control on a San Diego freeway. But Toyota now says they don't see any evidence to back up his story.
Sikes said, while trying to pass another car, his accelerator stuck, and despite putting all of his weight on the brake, the car wouldn't stop. Engineers from Toyota and the government say they have looked at the car and there's a built-in mechanism that is in perfect working order that should have stopped Jim Sikes' Prius.
MICHELS: We're not going to judge Mr. Sikes. The impression we have from our investigation is inconsistent with the account that we have heard from the driver of the...
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: I believe we have Ted Rowlands joining us live.
We had some technical problems there with your piece there, Ted. But give us a sense what local politics are saying about this right now. Are they planning to get involved? What do you know?
ROWLANDS: No indication at this point, Campbell.
The bottom line here is, Toyota and the federal government spent the weekend analyzing this car. And they took it apart a couple times. They looked at it. And specifically they looked for a couple markers. One of them was this device that if you put the accelerator down -- and that's what Sikes basically said -- the accelerator was down on its own. If you put the brake on while the accelerator is down in, a Prius, the car virtually shuts down. It dies.
And they say they took apart this car and that thing is still in perfect working order. They brought us to this football stadium parking lot to actually show us a couple of these Priuses in action. And they let us drive it. And when you do drive it, this thing does really slow down.
Now, Sikes is standing by his story. I talked to him as late as last Friday. I have talked to him a number of times. He says that people are coming out of the woodwork crank-calling him, calling him a liar. But he says he is standing by his story.
He does have a lawyer. His lawyer issued a press release today saying that they're not going to talk about this anymore until the federal government is done with its investigation.
But, to your point, if the guy is lying, I mean -- and we don't know that he is by any stretch of the imagination, but you would think that maybe the law enforcement would look into it, so that it sends a warning to other people. Toyota today said that they have been getting hammered since this story came out with stories across the country of people claiming that they have had acceleration problems.
So, what they did today by bringing the media out here was clearly to send a message and say anybody who claims something went wrong with one of their cars, they're going to look into it, they're going to analyze that car, and they're going to make sure that there is a case, if indeed there is one.
BROWN: All right, Ted Rowlands for us tonight with the latest on that from San Diego -- Ted, thanks very much.
Tonight, President Obama proposing, in addition to health care reform, a sweeping overhaul to education, and planning big changes to the No Child Left Behind Act. Find out what is in store for your kids.
The secretary of education, Arne Duncan, joining us next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: For the last few weeks on this program, we have been focusing a lot on education, taking a look at the system, where and how it is working, and, more often than not, where and how it is failing our children.
Schools and parents are making tough choices across the country. And, today, President Obama sent Congress plans for a major overhaul of No Child Left Behind. The name itself would be scrapped as part of the revamp of an education plan that became a signature of the Bush administration.
But this White House is facing criticism that its reforms will turn teachers into scapegoats.
Education Secretary Arne Duncan is joining me right now to explain what is behind the shakeup and where all this is going.
Secretary Duncan, thank you so much for being with us. I appreciate it.
The biggest change that you want to make is to focus on offering more rewards for schools and I guess being less punitive toward underperforming schools or failing schools. Explain the thinking behind this.
ARNE DUNCAN, U.S. EDUCATION SECRETARY: Well, there are a couple major changes, Campbell, we want to make.
First of all, we want to raise standards for all students. In far too many places around the country, due to political pressure, due to politics, not due to what is good for children or the economy, standards have been dummied down.
So, we want to have a high bar, college- and career-ready standards for every single child in this country. Secondly, we want to reward excellence. We think there are phenomenal teachers, phenomenal schools, school districts, even states, that are raising the bar for all children and closing the achievement gap.
Under the previous law, there are many, many ways to fail, very little reward for success. And we think we can turn that on its head and learn so much from those highly successful schools.
BROWN: So, you are getting a lot of pushback from teachers, particularly the teachers union. And I want to talk about that in just a second.
But, first, let me ask you about something more specific. President Obama just applauded the recent decision to fire an entire teacher faculty from an underperforming school. This was in Rhode Island. It's a story we have been following closely on this show. And that sounds pretty punitive to me.
I guess, under this new initiative, are we going to see more situations like that?
DUNCAN: You never want to see teachers fired or applaud that.
I think what the president was indicating was that you have to have courage in addressing those situations where it's simply not working for children. And that school has a long way to go. It has a dropout rate of more than 50 percent. Seven percent of students are at grade level in math -- 93 percent are not.
And, so, that community has to work together. And, as of today, the union and the management are back at the local level, back, committed to bargaining together. We think that is very, very important. Those decisions have to be made at the local level.
But what both the president and I believe is that, where you have dropout factories, where you have schools where the vast majority of students, 50 percent, 60 percent, 70 point are not able to graduate, that's -- we have got to do better than that.
BROWN: Now, again, getting more specific, under the existing law, failing schools have to offer students either special tutoring or give them the option to transfer out, to go to another school. And one of the criticisms is coming from former Bush Education Secretary Margaret Spellings, who calls the plan overall a mixed bag but is critical specifically that your reform would no longer mandate those options. Why the change there?
DUNCAN: Well, again, I think Washington should be less involved. And so those are great options. I think local educators can decide what's the best option for the children, whether it's more after school tutoring, whether it's choice. But for us to mandate, to be prescriptive here, I think that's fundamentally backwards. Let those great teachers, great principals figure out the best way to help their children.
BROWN: But don't you rather --
DUNCAN: Tutoring is a great way to do it. Particular schools can be a piece of the solution, but those decisions should be made not by Washington but at the local school level, at the local community level. We'll hold folks accountable for results, but let them figure out the best ways to teach children. We can't micromanage 95,000 students in Washington. I don't think that's an appropriate role for us.
BROWN: All right. I hear you. But at the same time, don't you run the risk that if there's not a mandate there, that -- and you're relying on it to happen at the local level that you're going to have some students who get stuck at underperforming or failing schools. And then they have no option for getting out.
DUNCAN: Well, Campbell, that's exactly what's happened in the past is that those very low performing schools, those dropout factors I talked about, nothing changed. Nothing changed. So what we're saying are those bottom performing schools where there's chronic underperformance, you need to take dramatic action and do it now. And so we're trying again to fundamentally flip this on its head. Schools that are getting better each year we're going to support those, but those schools that are simply not working for children, we have to come with a very, very different solution and do it with a real sense of urgency.
BROWN: As you know, the teachers' unions have been very critical of the plan. They're claiming basically that they're being set up as scapegoats. The head of the second largest teachers union said, and this is a quote here that, "This appears to place 100 percent responsibility on teachers and administrators while giving them zero percent authority to act."
Do you think they're doing enough, I guess, to support teachers in your efforts to reach this goal?
DUNCAN: That is hugely important to us. And I think Randi Weingarten is doing a great job leading the AFT. She's a real reformer. Actually for the first time in this law, not just schools, but districts and states will be held accountable for results. So this is really shared responsibility, shared accountability. That has never been true historically, Campbell. BROWN: But that criticism is coming from Randi Weingarten. I mean, she's the one saying that.
DUNCAN: I understand that. We're also investing $3.9 billion into teachers and principals. We want to give teachers the working conditions they need. They need more time to collaborate. They need great mentors. We're making an unprecedented investment there. And for the first time, we're going to reward excellence. We're going to find those phenomenal teachers and make sure that we're recognizing them, we're rewarding them and learning from them.
BROWN: But can you do it if the teachers unions aren't onboard?
DUNCAN: We're going to continue to work very, very closely with teachers union. We have a great working relationship, and I'm absolutely confident that we're going to do the right thing for children and the right thing for adults. We have to do those two things together, and that's what we're committed to doing.
BROWN: Well, we all want to see you solve this problem, everybody. There's nothing partisan about this, I don't think.
Mr. Secretary, really appreciate your taking the time to talk to us. Best of luck to you.
DUNCAN: OK. Thank you.
BROWN: When we come back, will there be an opening soon on the Supreme Court? Jeffrey Toobin got a rare interview with Justice John Paul Stevens. We'll talk about those retirement rumors and the new battle that President Obama may have on his hands, when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens, the oldest and longest serving member of the high court is speaking out, which is something that's pretty rare end of itself and talking about when he might step down, leaving an opening that could lead to a big political fight. And Jeff Toobin just wrote a very lengthy profile for the current issue of "The New Yorker." He is also, of course, the author of "The Nine: Inside the Secret World of the Supreme Court." And he is with me right now.
So this is unusual to even get the kind of access for him to really sit down and talk with us, huh?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: And I think the fact that he gave an interview like this at this moment is yet another clue that he is getting ready to go.
BROWN: So when is it going to happen?
TOOBIN: I think this spring.
BROWN: Really? TOOBIN: Yes. I think he only hired one law clerk for next year. Retired justices get one clerk. Current justices get four. He's turning 90 years old next month. I think he recognizes that, you know, the time has come even though he's in great shape for a 89-year- old. The morning I interviewed him, he had just come from playing singles tennis that morning. But I think he also is politically in tune with President Obama.
BROWN: Right.
TOOBIN: Wants Obama to fill the seat. So I think it all adds up to a resignation now.
BROWN: How much or if any sort of consultation would he likely have with the president in terms of giving him a heads up? And would you ever have a situation where the president might say, you know what? Could you just hold off?
TOOBIN: You know what? They are --
BROWN: Get a lot of my play right now.
TOOBIN: They're pretty fastidious about no contact.
BROWN: Really?
TOOBIN: Yes. I mean, there might be a message sent that he was going to retire.
BROWN: Right.
TOOBIN: But it wouldn't be a negotiation at all.
BROWN: Yes.
TOOBIN: I mean, there is often -- I mean, like for example, this article, this interview in "The New Yorker" is a way of saying, hey folks at the White House --
BROWN: Heads up.
TOOBIN: -- not that they don't know, but you better have your ducks in a row for a Supreme Court fight this summer.
BROWN: You got -- there was great insight beyond this as well from your piece in your reporting, for example, Justice Ginsburg, you report, has not seemed entirely pleased by Justice Sotomayor's vigor. How did you learn that? Tell us a little bit about that.
TOOBIN: In an oral argument, it's such a strategy that these arguments are not televised because they are really theater. And you see the way they interact. And Justice Ginsburg is a very meticulous questioner on certain subjects, civil procedure, not necessarily high profile things. But so is Justice Sotomayor.
You know, there used to be kind of a tradition that new justices can come back, didn't ask many questions.
BROWN: Right.
TOOBIN: Justice Sotomayor is very comfortable asking questions. She asks a lot of questions. She's been a judge for a long time. She's ready for this job. And you can see it on Justice Ginsburg's face a little surprised sometimes.
BROWN: Not quite differential enough. And I was also sort of surprised to learn how little interaction that the justices have with one another. You talked about that in your book, I will say. But, and the fact that Justice Stevens really is the most remote of all of them.
TOOBIN: Well, you know, he used to be known as the FedEx justice because he spent so much time in Florida. He has a condo in Fort Lauderdale, and he likes to spend time there. And he now communicates electronically. But, you know, under William Rehnquist, the former chief justice, he really made a decision that good fences make good neighbors. But, look, we are nine independent-minded people here. We think what we think about the law. And we don't need to be bugging each other. So it's shocking how little time they spend with each other except during formal occasions.
BROWN: Right.
TOOBIN: Like when they sit and they have lunch on days that they sit, all nine of them together. Sometimes they have guests actually.
BROWN: Wow. Wouldn't it be fun to have a seat at that table?
TOOBIN: You know what? I'm available --
BROWN: Waiting for that invitation.
TOOBIN: -- but have not been asked.
BROWN: I wouldn't hold your breath.
TOOBIN: I don't think so.
BROWN: Jeff Toobin tonight.
TOOBIN: OK.
BROWN: Jeff, thanks. Fascinating. Something we'll be following very closely.
When we come back, John Edwards' mistress talking for the first time about the affair. Rielle Hunter. Also, showing a little skin in the process. The pictures and the story when we come back.
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BROWN: We've got the must-see news happening right now. Mike Galanos here with tonight's "Download." Hey there, Mike. MIKE GALANOS, HLN PRIME NEWS: Hey, Campbell. Some justice today for ESPN reporter Erin Andrews. She was very emotional in court as Michael Barrett pleaded guilty to interstate talking and accepted a two and a half year prison sentence for shooting a nude video of Andrews through a hotel room peephole. Now Barrett was caught after he tried to sell that footage.
Actor Charlie Sheen pleaded not guilty today to a felony domestic abuse charges in Aspen, Colorado. The "Two and a Half Men" star is accused of putting a knife to his wife's throat during Christmas vacation. Sheen checked himself into rehab last month for what was called a preventative measure. That trial is set to start in July.
United Airlines has joined American and Continental by offering mobile boarding passes. The Chicago-based carrier now lets passengers download a link and check in using iPhones, BlackBerries and other PDAs. The new service has been rolled out in eight cities across the country and will be expanded to 30 by the summer.
And finally this, a lot of you may be pumped up for March madness. But your boss, not so much. It turns all that time spent on office pools and the water cooler talk, it's costing your employer big time.
An Illinois consulting firm is estimating the first week of the NCAA men's basketball tournament costs companies almost $2 billion. They estimate about 100 minutes of work wasted per employee over that first week of the tournament. So it's a lot of loot.
BROWN: Yes.
GALANOS: To try to make a little.
BROWN: But you have to -- how do you calculate the cost of bonding that takes place in the workplace?
GALANOS: That's the other side of it. You're right.
BROWN: You know, it's just -- I would argue with that.
All right. Mike Galanos for us tonight. Mike, thank you very much.
GALANOS: Yes.
BROWN: For the first time ever, the woman at the center of the John Edwards sex scandal is speaking out. Her story and the pictures coming up.
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BROWN: John Edwards' mistress, Rielle Hunter, has finally broken her silence about their affair and love child. In an interview with "GQ" magazine, she gives details of how the affair came to be and what surprised a lot of people, the racy photos accompanying the article. Randi Kaye has more. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Rielle Hunter, mistress of John Edwards and mother to his daughter, bears plenty in this photo shoot for "GQ" magazine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's beautiful.
KAYE: And bears it all in her accompanying interview claiming that her affair with John Edwards, who she calls Johnny, began hours after they met in 2006. Quote, "I had never experienced anything like what was flowing between us. It was just this -- this magnetic force field. It terrified me."
Hunter says she wasn't the one to hit on Edwards. Quote, "I'm not a predator. I'm not a gold digger. I'm not the stalker." And when they first met, she says she told him, quote, "You're so hot."
From that first night, she said Edwards predicted the peril Hunter could put him in. Quote, "Falling in love with you could really (beep) my plans for becoming president." Hunter says Edwards is a great father to their 2-year-old daughter Frances Quinn, especially since he and his wife Elizabeth separated. But that while she was pregnant, quote, "I believe on some level he was hoping I would get an abortion." She says one of the toughest moments of the scandal came in this 2008 interview.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A report has been published that the baby of Miss Hunter is your baby. True?
JOHN EDWARDS, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Not true. Not true. Published in a supermarket tabloid. But no, that is absolutely not true.
KAYE: She says Edwards was furious about this spread in the "National Enquirer." Quote, "Johnny was screaming at me about the "National Enquirer" finding me and photographing me. He was very angry. And Johnny doesn't scream." And that Elizabeth Edwards interviews to support her book in 2009 were devastating like this appearance on "Oprah."
ELIZABETH EDWARDS, JOHN EDWARDS' WIFE: I've seen a picture of the baby. I have no idea. It doesn't look like my children, but I don't have any idea.
KAYE: Hunter claims that the Edwards' had a toxic relationship and that Elizabeth is abusive. Quote, "Infidelity doesn't happen in healthy marriages. So the home was wrecked already. I was not the home wrecker."
John Edwards finally admitted paternity this past January. For the future, Hunter denies rumors that she and Edwards are engaged. But this steamy photo shoot and tell-all interview have reignited a political sex scandal now going on four years.
Randi Kaye, CNN, New York. (END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And CNN legal analyst Lisa Bloom is joining me right now to talk about legal implications of all this. But I just want to start by saying, wow. Where to begin here, Lisa? I want to get your overall take on this unbelievable tell-all. And why do you think she's speaking out now?
LISA BLOOM, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I read the entire interview. It's quite long. It was 10 long pages on my computer. And I think it does humanize her to a large extent. She made a couple big mistakes which I'll get to. But she was smart enough to say I'm only going to do this print interview if you print the questions and the answers verbatim as exactly as they're given.
And, look, she's a human being. She made some mistakes. She made the same mistake, adultery, that millions of Americans make every year. So, you know, I think she's trying to get out from under all of the tabloid rumors and all of the lies that were told about her. I mean that's a very human impulse and to be fair to her the media has been hounding for interviews probably selling her that same line. Why don't you just tell your side of the story? And she didn't sell her story. So I think that's valid.
The photos, I think, are a disaster for her and for a videographer to claim, as she did today, that she didn't know what was going to happen when she's posing for a photographer without pants in a bed with Dora and Barney and Elmo and God knows who else was in that bed with all her kid's stuff animals. I think that picture is a disaster for her.
BROWN: Now, I couldn't agree more. And apparently you're referencing what she told Barbara Walters. She apparently called Barbara Walters and said I'm horrified by the pictures. But I mean, you take your pants off and you don't know how it's going to turn out? I mean what on earth --
BLOOM: Yes. Really? Really? And there's a guy with a camera from "GQ" and this whole thing is planned and set up and there's probably lighting equipments. I mean, really? And she didn't expect this is how it was going to turn out? That's pretty difficult to believe.
BROWN: So let's get to the legal part of this. She was -- money was clearly being sent to her throughout her affair with John Edwards. And she says she didn't really know where it was coming from. But if it came from campaign funds, could John Edwards face charges?
BLOOM: Well, exactly. And that's the nature of the investigation going on right now. She says $5,000, $6,000 a month was put into her account by Andy Young. She didn't know exactly what the source of it was, perhaps it was some major donors.
Look, if donors chose out of the goodness of their heart because they wanted to help John Edwards to give money directly to Rielle Hunter without going through the campaign, they can do that. That's just a simple gift and they're entitled to do that. And she can collect that money and use it as she sees fit. But if a grandma in Indiana is sending $10 to John Edwards believing it's going to the campaign and any portion of that is going to his own personal use for his mistress to buy her silence, then he's in real trouble.
Now, she did work as a videographer for the campaign. She made those webisodes. That would be a legitimate campaign expense. The question is, is the amount that was paid to her for that a legitimate amount? She elaborates a little bit in today's piece and she said it wasn't just her. It was team. That would explain that larger amount over $100,000. Maybe so.
BROWN: Let me skip ahead. I know there's been a very public game here of he said-she said between her, between Rielle and Edwards' former aide Andrew Young. He is, of course, the one who originally claimed paternity of Rielle's baby. And in the "GQ" interview, Hunter says, and I'm quoting here, "If his grand jury testimony matches his book, I would suspect that they will be looking at him for many, many counts of perjury." Anderson Cooper did speak to Young today. And I just want to play his reaction before I get your reaction. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW YOUNG, FMR. EDWARDS CAMPAIGN AIDE: John, Elizabeth and Rielle have all said that there are inaccuracies in my book. It's curious to me that the only ones that are pointing out are kind of innocuous ones that is kind of a he said-she said. They ignore the fact that the majority of the controversial points in my book are substantiated by voice mails, e-mails and texts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So could anybody here, whether it's him or frankly any of the other people involved, could anybody be charged with perjury?
BLOOM: Well, that's always possible. Perjury has to be a false statement made in a court under oath. That's a material false statement. Perjury is very rarely charged in any case. And, you know, I just don't see that happening here. When people have a difference of opinion, even innocent misrecollection of the facts, perjury charges don't usually follow.
BROWN: Lisa Bloom for us tonight. Lisa, as always, thank you.
BLOOM: Thank you.
BROWN: "LARRY KING LIVE" starts in just a few minutes. But first, we have one night on the front lines of Mexico's drug war. The very latest victims here, American citizens. That story coming up just ahead.
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BROWN: Tonight, the State Department is warning Americans to stay away from parts of northern Mexico after nearly 50 people were killed this weekend in drug-related violence. Among the victims, a pregnant American who worked at the U.S. consulate in Juarez gunned down with her husband. And now the governor of Texas wants federal authorities to deploy predator drones which can patrol from above. Well, they are already in the skies over Arizona and Ed Lavandera shows us.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We're in Port Huachuca in southeast Arizona. We're about to give you an up close and personal look at how unmanned aircrafts are patrolling the southern border.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAVANDERA (voice-over): Inside this trailer, a team of three Customs and Border Protection agents are steering a Predator 2 unmanned aircraft along the Mexico-Arizona border. Jerry Kersey is at the helm and it's already busy.
(on camera): And so, Jerry, what's the situation we got here?
JERRY KERSEY, U.S. CUSTOMS & BORDER PROTECTION: This is a group that we got off a cold hit from a censor.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): The camera spotted 14 illegal immigrants crossing through rugged mountainous terrain some 40 miles away. They have no idea they're being watched from 19,000 feet in the sky.
KERSEY: They should be responding.
LAVANDERA: But then a surprise pops up on the screen.
KERSEY: We've got another group. We got -- how many? Start counting.
LAVANDERA: There are now 31 illegal immigrants walking north, already 14 miles inside the United States. This is a huge area. And the border patrol lacks the manpower to fully patrol it. It's the reason some want to expand predator patrols all along the southern border.
LAVANDERA (on camera): More predator air traffic across the border would help?
KERSEY: Absolutely. Absolutely. It's much more cost effective to do that.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): We'll return to that scene in the mountains in a moment. Earlier in the day, the predator focused its camera on me to give you a simultaneous aerial and ground view.
(on camera): I'm told it's 5 1/2 miles in that direction. I can't see it. But we're going to put it to the test, walk around this park and see what I look like in the eyes of the unmanned aircraft.
KERSEY: The suspects are now running across the field. He's gone under some bushes and a covered area. So we'll keep our camera focused in that area. If he tries to pop out either side of that, any angle on that, we'll know which way he goes.
LAVANDERA: I'm going to keep moving and see if I can find another place to try to hide.
(voice-over): I find a place to sit under a tall pine tree.
KERSEY: I see him moving around in there. He's trying to hide. Suspect entered -- entering what appears to be a playground area. You ran but you can't hide.
LAVANDERA (on camera): Makes you feel like you're 10 years old playing hide and go seek.
(voice-over): Of course these CBP agents are engaged in a real life version and border patrol agents have now found the 31 illegal immigrants we told you about earlier.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) There's the group. They're starting to run across the road now.
Stop. Stop. Group is to your right. You're less than 30 yards from them.
Group is running. Group is running. Oh, Jesus Christ. Just what we need. Trying to get away from these clouds here.
LAVANDERA (on camera): Those clouds come at the worst time possible.
KERSEY: Exactly. Exactly. So, you know, you've got elements out there that you don't control. So -- but, you know, tomorrow is another day. We'll be right back at it and try to get more.
LAVANDERA: It's 11:00 and the mission for this aircraft is over tonight. But the scenario some 40 miles away continues to play out. Border patrol agents are still looking for those 31 illegal immigrants. We know they caught three, but everyone here has to wait to see how it all plays out.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And that was Ed Lavandera reporting for us.
That's it for us tonight. "LARRY KING LIVE" starting right now.
