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Campbell Brown

Explosion Rocks West Virginia Mine; Michael Steele Under Fire

Aired April 05, 2010 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome, everybody.

As you know, we have been covering this breaking news, and we want to bring you up to speed right now, if you're just tuning in.

As John has been explaining, there has been an explosion in a coal mine in West Virginia. What we know at this hour is that six miners are dead, 21 still missing, another 21 right now being treated for injuries. A state and federal rescue effort is under way at this moment.

We are expecting to get some live pictures from the scene any moment now. Our own Joe Johns has been working the phones. He's going to bring us up to speed on the very latest.

Joe, tell us what we know at this moment.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Campbell, well, you know what I know, and those numbers are subject to change.

Six miners, as you said, died, another 21 miners, we're told, injured, as many as 21 more unaccounted for. That's according to an emergency dispatcher for Boone County, which was called in to assist on this response. There was a spokeswoman at a Charleston, West Virginia, area medical center which said that center was being prepared to receive injured miners, telling CNN as many as 28 people are unaccounted for, and citing emergency dispatchers coordinating response efforts at the mine.

At least one miner was evacuated, we're told, by helicopter. The explosion occurred around 4:30 or so Eastern time at Massey Energy's Performance Coal Company mine in Whitesville, we're told, 30 miles south of Charleston, which is a big city.

Now, 30 miles isn't that far in West Virginia terms, but you also have to consider the mountains you sometimes have to drive around and the ravines you have to drive through in order to get anywhere.

Massey Energy Company is based in Richmond, Virginia. It's a very large company with operations in West Virginia, as well as Kentucky and the state of Virginia. The largest coal producer in Central Appalachia, this company says.

Now, as far as the record of this mine, we do know there have been at least three other deaths occurring at the Upper Big Branch mine in the past 12 years. According to federal records, in 1998, we had a man killed when a beam he was building collapsed. In 2001, a worker died after a rock fell on him.

In 2003, an electrician who was repairing a shuttle car was found dead. That's all according to MSHA, the Mine Safety and Health Administration.

So, those are the facts we know. We have been on the phones and we continue to try to get in touch with people in the Mountain State, pretty serious situation when you compare this to the Sago Mine a few years back.

The initial reports, I say the initial reports -- things always change -- the initial reports are a bit worse than Sago Mine was at the outset. A lot of things have changed since that time. There have been some fixes put in place, and the question is whether some of those fixes worked -- Campbell.

BROWN: And give us your sense, because, Joe, you covered that story, the Sago Mine disaster, I know, and spent a lot of time on that. It was just such an emotional, heart-wrenching story for so many of us who remember it.

Take us back, though, to what you remember about the kind of things that were happening in those initial hours to try to get a sense for what was going on.

JOHNS: Sure, very disturbing situation and very confusing, of course, to try to recover -- to try to cover it. Communication is always the instant question in a mining disaster.

Are the authorities able to talk with anybody, presumably, underneath the ground to try to get a sense as to whether there were survivors, if there was, in fact, a collapse. Are people somewhere underground in a place where they can sustain life and stay safe until authorities can get to them.

After the Sago Mine disaster, in fact, there were some fixes put in place, as I said earlier. One was to try to improve communications, two-way communications, if you will, between the ground and underneath the earth. And there were also some fixes put in place to try to put some type of a structure inside the mine, where miners could go in the event there was a collapse, so, presumably, a space that could hold up to a dozen people or month where they could go and stay until they're rescued.

Now, there have been some questions as to whether the mines in Appalachia and places like West Virginia have actually been able to put such structures in place. A lot of stuff still up in the air, and it could be a very long night, as Senator Rockefeller said, Campbell.

BROWN: Absolutely. All right, Joe Johns -- Joe, stand by. I know you are going to be with us throughout the hour and you're going to continue to work those phones.

I want to bring in right now Davitt McAteer, who has served as an assistant secretary for mine safety in the Clinton administration.

Really appreciate you being here, Davitt.

You're an expert on West Virginia mines, I know. Do you know about this particular mine, the Upper Big Branch mine?

J. DAVITT MCATEER, FORMER MINE SAFETY AND HEALTH ADMINISTRATION DIRECTOR: I know about the mine a little, yes.

BROWN: What can you tell us about it?

MCATEER: Well, it's a deep mine, and it looks like that they were changing out -- they were around shift change time. And it may have been that that's one of the reasons why there are so many people involved in the accident is that they -- you had two shifts changing. And that's -- we're looking into that now. That's a question.

The second point is that you have got either a methane explosion or you have got a dust explosion, and both of those are controllable elements and should be controlled, because they occur in the mines and have been a problem for 100 years.

And so steps are in place to take to try to control this and to keep those from causing explosions and causing explosions of this magnitude. It is a very large -- this is a very large number of people to be involved in a mine in this country.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: I want to stop you right there, because you're going to have to forgive my ignorance. But walk me back a little bit.

MCATEER: I'm sorry.

BROWN: You said two possible kinds of explosions, a methane explosion and a dust explosion. Explain the difference, what would cause -- like what would be behind it, how it could have happened, what could the cause be.

MCATEER: Sure.

Well, methane gas is the same kind of gas that you get from your range at home. And when that gas occurs -- when that explosion -- or when an explosion of methane occurs, it's because it's in a range of 5 to 15 percent. And that range is called the explosive range.

And the way you eliminate that or avoid that is to provide a ventilation system, which in effect blows that methane out of the mine. Now, sometimes, methane can build up, as was done in the case of the Sago Mine, and build up in a sealed area.

We don't know whether that's the case, but that's the potential we would have to take a look at. And that Methane explosion is much -- while violent and while dangerous and while it can kill people, is much less strength-wise than a coal dust explosion. A coal dust explosion is 10 times what a methane explosion is. And it can occur when the coal finds the real particles that are ground up after the coal is mined can be ignited and by themselves and cause an explosion. And a third combination -- and a third is a combination of both methane and coal dust. And it's unclear yet what occurs -- what of these kinds of explosions has occurred. And it's unclear yet as to the source of the ignition. You need to have a way for it to get started.

So, those are the two types of explosions that you might generally come to expect in a mine.

BROWN: And, again, you said likely this happened from what we know at 4:30 p.m. Eastern time. So, given the number of casualties, as we have been saying, six people dead here, at least 21 injured, 21 unaccounted for, this was likely around the time of a shift change, you think?

MCATEER: It looks to be that way, because in our country what we have done in part to eliminate the danger to a large number of people, like they used to have explosions in the 1930s and '40s and '50s, we have reduced the number of people and we have gone to a mechanization scheme, which decreases the number of people who are exposed to danger.

But this number is quite substantial -- 40 to 50 people is a large number, and very disconcerting, the fact that we can't locate 21 or we can't -- or are unaccounted for, 21 people are unaccounted for.

BROWN: Give us -- based on your experience and also your knowledge of that particular mine, give us your sense of what's happening right now on the ground there. Again, just to let people know, we're about -- we're expecting to get in some live pictures of the scene any moment.

MCATEER: Sure.

BROWN: But, based on what you know, what do you think is happening?

MCATEER: What happens is that first the state agency and the federal agency, MSHA, attempt to set up command centers, cooperating, working together.

And then the company comes in and it is the company's responsibility to provide all the information that they have about the mine and about its current makeup for the maps and to show every bit of information that they have.

And then the agencies, working with the company officials, because the company officials are the most on the ground, they know the most about it, the agencies' rescue teams will attempt to establish a scheme to try to go in and rescue these miners.

First, you have to identify location and second then you have to identify what are the conditions that these mine rescue teams will face, what's the methane level, what's the gas level. After an explosion like has occurred in this case, there is frequently a problem with the air. The air itself is contaminated or toxic, that it is deficient in oxygen, that it is it is heavy in carbon monoxide.

All of those factors have to be taken into account, and tests are made to try to determine it. And then teams working in tandem, you can't go by yourself, but a team working in tandem with other teams will then start to make a trek up into the mine area where they believe that the miners are.

We hope that there's -- after Sago, there was a great effort to push for two-way communication that would survive -- that could survive an explosion. We don't know whether this mine had adopted it or it had included that in there.

It was also under West Virginia rule rescue chambers were required. And I understand from the state agency that rescue chambers do exist in the mine. So, it's hoped that these miners have been able to make it to a rescue chamber of some sort. So, those factors, we have to learn yet and have to try to figure out how to go from there.

BROWN: Right.

Well, boy, if there is a rescue chamber and they were there, that would be good news indeed, although based on what you're telling us, it's going to be quite a long night given the danger involved for rescue crews.

MCATEER: Yes. You wish it was a walk-on and get it over and get it quick and do it, but you can't do it that way. You don apparatus and you go in and you go a certain distance, 100 feet, and you set up a station there, and then your second team goes in and it sets up a second station another 100 feet in. And so it's quite a lengthy and painful ordeal, particularly because you don't know what conditions these rescue teams are going to meet.

BROWN: Right.

Mr. McAteer, really appreciate you joining us tonight. I know you're going to be with us throughout the next couple of hours, as we keep an eye on the story.

We're going to take a quick break. Coming up, we're going to have a whole lot more on tonight's breaking news, this devastating mine explosion that has left six miners dead, 21 still missing. And as I said earlier, we're expecting live pictures from the scene just minutes from now. And we will have the very latest on the rescue effort right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Once again, we're covering this breaking story tonight, a massive explosion at a mine in West Virginia.

Right now, the search is on for 21 missing miners. There are already six miners confirmed dead, and quite a number injured, 21, we believe, injured at this moment.

We have Bruce Watzman on the phone with us right now. He's the senior vice president of regulatory affairs at the National Mining Association.

And, Bruce, we were talking earlier with one of the gentlemen who investigated the Sago Mine explosion about what may have caused this. And I just want to be clear with people. We don't know. There's a lot we don't know right now. There was some kind of explosion.

As it was walked through with us earlier, it could have been a methane explosion, it could have been a dust explosion, unclear at this point. But, as I understand it, the new laws do require rescue chambers to be in these mines and that there is supposedly a rescue chamber in this mine.

Explain what that means, what that looks like, and what it could potentially mean for the miners who are unaccounted for at this hour.

BRUCE WATZMAN, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, NATIONAL MINING ASSOCIATION: Well, thank you, Campbell.

Yes, all mines in the U.S. today have rescue chambers underground. These are facilities that the miners can shelter themselves in while awaiting rescue or waiting to be reached by the rescue team. And it's not a single chamber. Under the law and under the regulations that we're complying with today, there are rescue facilities located throughout the mine.

BROWN: And I just want to update people for a moment, Bruce, and, unfortunately, we have seven miners now confirmed dead, from what we are being told.

I want to go back to that and have you expand on it a little bit, these rescue chambers. I know you specialize in these regulations that were put in place. Beyond this sort of safety area, what does that mean in terms of supplies or equipment that's supposed to be down there in case something like this happens?

WATZMAN: By law, the rescue chambers are to be capable of maintaining people for 96 hours, so they're equipped with oxygen. They're equipped with CO-scrubbing capacity. They're equipped with water and food and facilities to tend for their needs, medical capabilities. So they are capable of maintaining people for 96 hours once they're inside the facility.

BROWN: And even this number of people? Because we were speaking earlier with Davitt McAteer, who was secretary of mine safety in the Clinton administration, and he said this sounded like a large number of people, an unusually large number of people. He thought it might be a shift change when the explosion had happened, and that's why we're hearing such a large number of injuries.

WATZMAN: Well, I would hate to speculate on why the large number at this point, but, remember, as I said, they're located throughout the mine.

They're sized based upon the number of workers who are anticipated or could be expected in a particular area of the mine at any given time. So, I would assume that there are facilities underground capable of maintaining the number of people who have been reported missing.

BROWN: And what about communications equipment or the ability? How hard is it to establish communication? Is there a way to do that?

WATZMAN: Well, mines have always had communication systems. What we were required to do, following the events of 2006, was to put in advanced technology. The question is, is whether or not the new systems are capable of withstanding the force of an explosive event. And that's something that no one knows as this juncture.

BROWN: Just today in China, some miners were rescued who had been trapped in a coal mine for eight days.

With rescue teams on the way, I mean, I know you said 96 hours, but is that all the time they have? I mean, again, I'm asking you to speculate, because I know you don't know the conditions there, but what's your best sense?

WATZMAN: Well, at this point, I would imagine -- and the miners are trained first and foremost to find their way out of mine. And I would imagine at this point that's what they're trying to do. They're seeking sources of fresh air, separate and apart from the rescue chambers, and they're trying to find a route of egress out of the mine.

BROWN: I just -- again, I'm getting some updated numbers I want to share with people.

As we understand it now, 19 miners still unaccounted for, again, seven dead.

Given the type of thing that you have seen, I mean, what type of injuries? We're also hearing 21 injuries. What type of injuries are they potentially dealing with?

WATZMAN: It could be lacerations. It could be broken bones. One can't -- you know, one shouldn't begin to speculate at a time like this.

Everyone's attention is focused on getting the rescue teams underground as quickly as possible, as safely as possible, and reaching those trapped miners as soon as possible.

BROWN: I know. I'm just thinking about -- again, as we were talking with Davitt McAteer earlier, the challenge involved here for the rescue teams, given that these are the injuries they are going to have to treat and how challenging it is for them and how dangerous it is for them as they try to reach these guys, right?

WATZMAN: Well, it is.

And these are the -- some of the most highly trained and dedicated people that you will ever run across. They train throughout the year. They compete in competitions against other team to continue to hone their skills and perfect their skills. You know, they know the job they're doing. They will do it safely. They will do it carefully. And that's where everyone's efforts are focused right now.

BROWN: All right.

Again, Bruce Watzman, who is senior vice president of regulatory affairs, again, at the National Mining Association, Bruce, we appreciate you joining us.

We're going to have a lot more ahead on this, including some live pictures from the scene of where this took place.

Also, we are going to talk in a few moments about a little political news, a major shakeup at the RNC -- Chairman Michael Steele speaking out, and much more ahead. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We have some new information to bring with -- you about that West Virginia mine explosion, again, seven miners dead, as we reported earlier, 19 missing, a number of injuries, over 20 injuries they're dealing with right now.

And joining us on the phone is Kennie Bass. He's a reporter with the affiliate WCHS in West Virginia.

Kennie, you there?

KENNIE BASS, WCHS REPORTER: I'm here.

BROWN: Thank you for being with us, Kennie.

I know you're on the ground. Just tell us, give us your sense of what's happening, what you can see and hear at this hour. What's going on?

BASS: Well, we're a few miles from the site. State police actually have closed down State Route 3 in West Virginia. And they have done that because typically what happens when these situations come up, family members of miners who are involved in any type of accidents tend to gather.

We saw that at Sago, obviously. We saw at the Aracoma Alma Number One mine, the Massey accident that happened back in 2006 just a couple of weeks after Sago. So, state police have closed access to Route 3, which leads to the mine site, the Upper Big Branch mine in Raleigh County, and they're only letting emergency crews through, so no media crews are actually close to the site.

BROWN: And, Kennie, I know you have spoken with the CEO of this mine. What did he tell you, I understand. What did he tell you?

BASS: I did. I talked earlier this everything -- it was a little bit before 6:00 -- with Massey CEO and chairman Don Blankenship. And, obviously, he was in the first stages of the response to this. So many things have to happen whenever an accident occurs. Federal and state authorities have been to be contacted, obviously. The first priority is to contact mine rescue teams.

Mr. Blankenship told me that they're uncertain as to what happened, but that they were working diligently on rescue efforts and they were in contact with all of the appropriate agencies. He did share the gravity of the situation with me. He says it's a very serious situation, obviously, with the number dead and the number missing.

And any time you have people missing in a coal mine underground when something has gone amiss, that's a very, very serious situation. But the good thing is, mine rescue teams in West Virginia are the best in the world. Massey Energy, from the folks that I have talked to at that company, they refer to their employees as members.

The COO, Chris Adkins, said at their safety dinner, which took place just a couple of weeks ago, that every miner deserves the right to go home safe to be with their family every evening. And they really take it seriously.

So, these Massey mine rescue teams train constantly. So, Massey mine rescue teams on the site. Other coal companies all mobilized their rescue teams as well to join in the rescue efforts, along with state and federal rescue teams.

So, there is a large number of people being thrown at this problem and they're doing the best they can. Obviously, they have to make sure that the mine's integrity is solid enough to allow rescue teams to go in, because they have to be very careful that they don't send men and women into a situation where another big problem could develop.

BROWN: And as we have been talking to people, Kennie, all night so far, about how many new safety measures have now been put into place, how the laws were changed after the Sago disaster, so you're dealing with a different scenario here.

BASS: We are.

Massey is at the forefront, from -- again, from the people I have talked to in this country. And I attended that safety dinner and I saw all the safety measures that they have undertaken. And one of those are those emergency shelters that were so important in the aftermath of Sago and talked about

Massey uses a model that's in a -- it's in a metal container almost. Like, it stands about three or four feet tall. And then you open one bay at the end of that. You pull it out, and it inflates, and it has pressurized air inside.

So, if those men were close to where some of these safety shelters are, they can get to that, and that air supply lasts for a considerable amount of time, something that wasn't available to those miners trapped at the Sago Mine in -- just a -- I guess a few years ago back in 2006.

That wasn't available to them. But with these new laws and new regulations, these miners, if they were in a scenario where they weren't incapacitated by the explosion and they were mobile, they could get to a safety shelter. That's obviously something that's very different this time, as opposed to the last time.

BROWN: And, Kennie, you know that community better than any of us, certainly. I -- tell me what this mine means to that community. It's the heart and soul of the place, right?

BASS: Well, coal mining in general in West Virginia, especially in Boone and Raleigh Counties and Logan County, the southern coal fields of West Virginia, it is the backbone of the economy.

And these people have been under siege for quite some time, they feel like, from federal regulators and from environmentalists. So, they're in a little bit of a siege mentality, because they go to work and they try to provide energy to the country, and they're kind of being assaulted from all sides.

So, they have hunkered down and they have kind of bonded very closely with one another. Obviously, when you have got jobs that pay on average of $60,000, $70,000 a year, they're very important economically. So, people will go underground.

But the sad truth of coal mining is, this is a dangerous, dangerous business. And you can take all of the safety precautions in the world -- and I believe that Massey, certainly like other coal companies in West Virginia, values its employees and its members, and they do take safety precautions.

But there are so many ignitable sources underground. Methane gas is a constant problem. It's just dangerous, tricky business. And they know the risks, and they believe, for their families, that it's important to take these jobs. And they believe, for the country, it's important to provide the energy.

So, they take the risk and they go underground. And you pray something like this doesn't happen. And, unfortunately, something like this has happened again in West Virginia. And it's happened all too often in the past.

BROWN: Well, we are going to stay on top this, and we will be updating everyone as we have more information.

Kennie Bass with our affiliate WCHS in West Virginia joining us -- Kennie, thank you so much.

We're going to take a quick break.

Coming up, we are going to have the latest political news for you, the Republican National Committee cleaning house tonight in the wake of several scandals and missteps. All the details from Washington coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: A major shakeup at the Republican National Committee tonight as the chief of staff resigned. Ken McKay announced he is stepping down. This is one week after revelations the RNC paid for donors to visit a bondage-themed club in Hollywood.

Well, Chairman Michael Steele spoke out about the scandal today for the very first time. He defended his leadership of the party and made some waves with his answer to this question from George Stephanopoulos of ABC News. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOC CLIP)

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS: Do you feel that as an African- American you have a slimmer margin for error than another chairman would?

MICHAEL STEELE, RNC CHAIRMAN: The honest answer is yes.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Why is that?

STEELE: It just is. Barack Obama has a slimmer margin. We all -- a lot of folks do. It means a different role for, you know, for me to play and others to play. And that's just the reality of it. I mean, but you take that as part of the nature of it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: With his relationship with GOP insiders on increasingly thin ice, the question is, can Michael Steele survive as RNC hair?

Earlier tonight, I spoke to Democratic strategist and CNN political contributor Donna Brazile and senior political analyst Gloria Borger. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Gloria, I want to start with some news we were just learning about tonight about the RNC's chief of staff who is resigning. A party spokesman saying that the move is, quote, "about ensuring that we have the tight financial controls in place to ensure every nickel we spend is done with the goal of winning in November."

I know you've been working the phones a little bit on this. What do we know?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, I think this is a little bit sort of a scenario where you have an embattled chairman circling the wagons, I was told, around himself. Clearly, what this says is that the Republican National Committee has a boat load of trouble right now. It's losing its huge funders. And you can do just about anything as chairman of the Republican National Committee. But when you lose your big funders and, by the way, Campbell, they have other places to go right now within the Republican Party, that he's in real trouble. So you see some folks are deciding to leave and his very close allies circling the wagon. BROWN: Donna, what can he do or say going forward to show his party that he understands their concerns and that he's trying to address them?

DONNA BRAZILE, CNN DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, go back to the basics. The role of a party chairman is not only to serve as the chief spokesperson but also, as Gloria mentioned, to raise money for down-ballot races across the country. This is a very critical election year. Four out of five Americans will be voting for governor this year. The chairman should focus on what I call the big three. Raise money, go out there and recruit quality candidates, and get back on message. Right now, he's becoming a distraction to his own party and that's a huge, huge mistake for the Republican Party. But, you know, it's the gift that keeps on giving, and I'm a Democrat. So carry on. Carry on.

BROWN: Let me, Donna, go back to what Steele said this morning. That he has in his view a slimmer margin for error because he's a black man, and so does President Obama he said. First, do you believe that's true?

BRAZILE: You know, I don't want to compare apples and oranges. I mean, President Obama is the president of the United States. He's the commander in chief. He's a wartime president. Michael Steele is a chairman of the Republican Party. That's a major political party. He's been involved in politics for decades. He understands what it takes to succeed and the job and the role and responsibility that he has as chairman of the party. I think it's a distraction once again to add the element of what I call the most volatile ingredient in any conversation, race. Because this is not a conversation about race, it's about managing a political party.

BORGER: Yes.

BROWN: So politically speaking, I mean, should he have even said that?

BRAZILE: No, I would have tried to find another way. I mean, look, George, who is a good friend of mine, you know, posed a question and Michael tried to give an answer, but it wasn't the kind of answer I'm sure that his donors and many of his supporters across the country expected him -- expected him to give.

BROWN: Gloria.

BORGER: You know, Campbell, the bottom line is the last thing you want in the world is the chairman of the Republican National Committee from whom candidates feel they need to distance themselves. And I was talking to Republicans today who said, the only people now who might be able to go to Michael Steele and say you know what, you really are becoming too much of a distraction are governors. Governors are very, very important to the Republican Party right now. They're very important to the fund raising aspects of all of this. And maybe they'll be able to go to Michael Steele. But right now, everybody recognizes it's kind of a mess, and the irony is, is that the Republican Party is doing pretty well. And so this is a problem they don't want to have.

BROWN: Donna, let me just ask you to pretend you're a Republican for a moment. I mean, try hard. I know. But he was --

BRAZILE: I can do make-believe.

BROWN: He was elected to put a different face on the Republican Party, to try to broaden the tent a little bit and to do some outreach on behalf of this party and reach out to people in a different kind of way. Do you think that he's been able to accomplish that in any way?

BRAZILE: You know, as Gloria mentioned, he has three important races under his belt. If his record was zero and three, with no money in the bank, Michael Steele would be history. The fact is that he won a very important race in Massachusetts. He won two gubernatorial races in New Jersey and Virginia. So right now, I think, it would be a huge mistake for the Republican Party to sort of throw him out of the tent at a time when the tent is already small in terms of the composition.

I think it's important that the chairman goes back to the old formula. You know, go ahead and try to build a party, expand its appeal, reach out to independents, and stay off TV.

I went through this period in the Gore campaign when I told my friends that I was notable and unquotable. Meaning, every time I made a comment, I became the story. Michael Steele is becoming the story. He's a distraction. He's taken away what I call the brand from the Republican Party. It's a gift to the Democrats, but if I was a Republican strategist -- put it this way, if I was Alex Castellanos, I would tell my good friend Michael Steele to get off TV for a while.

BROWN: Gloria, you still think he's going to be the chairman in November?

BORGER: Oh, do I -- you know, Campbell, that's really -- that's really hard to say. I think once you see a top Republican governor, say a Haley Barbour, someone like that come out and say, you know what, this is hurting the party. Then you could see the dam bursts. But so far, people are not willing to do that. But again, the fund- raisers, they're giving their money to other places. And if the well dries up, it's a real problem for Michael Steele.

BRAZILE: I agree.

BROWN: Gloria Borger and Donna Brazile, thanks, guys. Appreciate it.

BRAZILE: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: When we come back, we're going to have more on the breaking story. The very latest on those missing miners in West Virginia, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: And we want to update you right now on that mine explosion in West Virginia as we have been reporting throughout the night. There are seven miners now confirmed dead. There are 19 who are still unaccounted for, 21 injured. Obviously, a very difficult time for families as they try to await rescue of those who are believed to be trapped in the mine and get some sort of information at this hour.

Our Joe Johns has been standing by with us throughout the evening. And, Joe, I want to have you comment on this, because I remember that you covered this story, the tragic Sago Mine disaster back in 2006. Talk to us a little bit. I mean, let's hope it's nothing anything, that this is nothing like that, but talk to us a little bit about what these families are going through at it this hour.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: It's a total roller coaster, Campbell. You have people hanging on every word waiting for any kind of thing to be sent to them. There are rumors that go around. The phone rings, everyone is hopeful. Everyone is waiting for somebody to come and give them any piece of information.

The Sago case, it was so dramatic because at the outset there was some hope that a number of the men underground were, in fact, alive. And there was even a report that they were alive and were coming out of the mine. It turned out all but one of the men inside the mine was dead. And it took a long time to figure that out, so it's a real emotional roller coaster for these families. And we're talking about such large numbers here, which is really extraordinary. And these numbers are certainly subject to change.

The numbers we have now, seven miners in this latest incident now reported dead. At least 19 others unaccounted for according to an emergency dispatcher for Boone County, which was called in to assist in the response. "The Associated Press" also reporting that they had actually spoken to the West Virginia state mining director who came up with similar numbers.

A spokeswoman at the Charleston area medical center which was being prepared to receive injured miners told CNN as many as 28 people unaccounted for, 28, citing emergency dispatchers coordinating response efforts at the mine. Again, this is just at the outset, and don't hold us to these numbers. But this is what people are telling us.

At least one miner we're told was evacuated by helicopter according to Mayhorn. The explosion occurred around 4:30 Eastern Time at Massey Energy's performance coal company mine in Whitesville. That's 30 miles south of Charleston, West Virginia. The company identified the facility as Upper Big Branch Mine.

Now, Massey Energy Company is based in Richmond, Virginia. Somewhat of a spotty safety record from what we can tell. It is the largest coal producer in central Appalachia. They have had three other deaths there that we know of that occurred at the Upper Big Branch Mine according to MSHA records over the past 12 years. In 1998, there was a man killed when a beam he was building collapsed. In 2001, a worker died after a rock fell on him. In 2003, an electrician repairing a shuttle core (ph) was found dead.

So, we're going to be looking into all of this obviously. But right now, the main focus is those people underneath the ground, where are they? Are any of them safe? Have any of them made it to one of the rescue shelters or whatever? Is there any communication between the people up on the surface and the people underneath the ground? Is there any way to find out if there's somebody down there still alive? And that's -- these are very scary times for those families because that's what they want know most, Campbell.

BROWN: Absolutely. And a lot of people talking about many of these changes that were instituted after the Sago Mine explosion and what happened there with better communications equipment and these rescue or --

JOHNS: Chambers.

BROWN: Chambers, right, within the mines. So hopefully, we'll be getting some more details about that as well.

We're going to take another quick break. Joe Johns, thank you very much.

We are going to talk with something -- talk about something that Joe touched on there, which are safety violations by the Massey Energy Company with one of our safety experts when we come back after a quick break. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: And once again, everyone, we are covering this breaking news story tonight. A massive explosion at a mine in West Virginia, and right now the search is on for 28 missing miners. As we understand it, another seven already confirmed dead.

Bruce Watzman is the senior vice president of Regulatory Affairs at the National Mining Association, and he is joining us once again by telephone. For a lot of people just joining us on this story, Bruce, I want to take them back with you because you're an expert in this. And explain to people -- we don't know, we're speculating about a lot right now, but there are rescue chambers that are in these mines that could offer some security until the rescue folks can get to these miners. Describe what those are, what they look like, and what that really means.

BRUCE WATZMAN, SR. V.P., REGULATORY AFFAIRS, NATL. MINING ASSOCIATION (via telephone): Yes. Following the events of 2006 in the Sago Mine disaster, the Congress legislated as did the state of West Virginia and one of the requirements was that mine -- underground coal mines should make available rescue chambers for miners to shelter themselves in the event of an emergency. These are hardened facilities. They are equipped and capable of maintaining miners for a period of 96 hours. So they're equipped with oxygen, with CO scrubbing systems, with provisions of food and water and medical supplies.

BROWN: Bruce, you there?

WATZMAN: Yes, I am.

BROWN: OK. I also just wanted to ask you -- and you may or may not be able to comment on this. But our CBS News' investigative unit was reporting on a number of violations at this mine.

Now, I have no context here. I don't know whether these are minor violations or major violations. There are things like the mine violated the standard for ventilation, violations for drill dust. Is this common or is this cause for concern?

WATZMAN: To be honest with you, I've not looked at the record of this mine at this point. We'll have more than ample opportunity as everyone will have more than ample opportunity to scrutinize the history of this particular mine. At this point, our focus has to be on getting the rescue teams underground and reaching the trapped miners.

I will say that Massey Energy as a company has had an improving safety record. In fact, the National Mining Association and MSHA each year recognized the safest mines in the country. It's the oldest occupational safety award given and Massey last year was the first company in the industry to ever have won three awards in the same year. So each mine presents its own circumstances, its own conditions and we'll have to examine that as will everyone else once the events that are unfolding right now are brought to a closure.

BROWN: And as we try to give people a sense of what is happening right now, we had the local affiliate reporter talking to us about this a little bit earlier. These rescue crews, the people who are going in to do this are highly trained and very skilled at this, right? Talk to us a little bit about who they are and what they're doing.

WATZMAN: These are some of the most highly trained skilled people and dedicated people that you will ever meet and have the opportunity to spend time with. They train monthly both internal to the company. They take part in competitions against other mine rescue teams. They know the job. They know how to perform the job. They do it carefully. They do it conscientiously. They're the best of the best.

BROWN: All right, Bruce Watzman, again, who is with the National Mining Association. We really appreciate you walking us through this. We're going to wait for more information again. As we mentioned earlier, we are expecting some live pictures from the scene in just a few moments.

We're going to take another quick break. We'll be back right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: "LARRY KING LIVE" is starting in just a few minutes. Before we go back to our breaking news, we do want to check in with Larry and see what you have tonight -- Larry.

LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Campbell, we'll follow right up with the very latest on that mine disaster in West Virginia. And then Tiger is back and talking at the Masters. Has he changed?

And Jane Fonda is here answering questions from me and you. You know, she's engaged. Jane is next on "LARRY KING LIVE" -- Campbell.

BROWN: I didn't know she was engaged. We'll be watching, Larry.

KING: Yes.

BROWN: Thanks very much. See you soon.

We're going back to Joe Johns in just a second for the latest on this. But I do want to mention from Twitter White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs says on his Twitter page that President Obama has called West Virginia Governor Joe Manchin to express his condolences regarding the mine disaster and to offer any assistance that they may need. Again, that coming from White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs at this hour.

Just to update you, the numbers right now have not changed. Still seven confirmed fatalities at that mine disaster, 28 unaccounted for as we await more information. And we want to check in again, as I said, with Joe Johns. He's been making some calls on this. Joe, what do we know?

JOHNS: Well, actually one thing I do have to point out to you, Campbell, the numbers are this. Seven miners have died, we're told, at least 19 unaccounted for. I included the 28 number.

BROWN: My bad. 19. Thank you.

JOHNS: Right. Earlier, and it has been updated to 19. That's according to the mine's parent company. At least one miner was evacuated by helicopter. The explosion occurred around 4:30 Eastern Time this afternoon. We do know that rescue crews from all over the state of West Virginia have now converged on Massey Energy's performance coal company mine there in Whitesville 30 miles south of Charleston, West Virginia. That mine has been identified as the Upper Big Branch Mine.

Massey Energy Company based in Richmond, Virginia, very well- known in the area with a pretty colorful CEO with operations in West Virginia, Kentucky, Virginia. The largest producer of coal in central Appalachia. There have been three deaths at that mine, the Upper Big Branch Mine in the last 12 years. According to federal records, one in 1998, a man killed when a beam he was building collapsed. 2001 and then again in 2003. Those were the large cases of serious injury deaths occurring at this mine.

There have been some other reports we're told of various things that occur typically at mines, and sometimes you get fines and such. But the fatalities, obviously, are the most serious things that go into the record, and that's the kind of thing you look at first.

Right now, though, the main thing we're looking at is what's happening on the ground underneath the ground, whether the authorities have been able to make contact with that large group of people now reported unaccounted for. Back to you, Campbell.

BROWN: All right. Joe Johns for us tonight. Joe, thanks very much.

And just to let people know, this is not something that we are going to have answers to quickly, unfortunately, especially for those families who are waiting right now. This is a long and arduous process as these rescue workers have to be so careful. It is so dangerous for them to do their job, to try to get these guys. We are going to stay with this throughout the night and we will be updating you as we have new developments again in that West Virginia mine explosion.

That does it for us. "LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.