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Campbell Brown
President Obama Holds Nuclear Weapons Summit; Time For Women Priests?
Aired April 12, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there, everybody.
Today, in our nation's capital, what may be the biggest gathering of world leaders called by a U.S. president since FDR, the 47-nation nuclear summit in Washington, the big focus, keeping loose nukes out of the hands of the world's terrorists.
And there's a lot more to talk about tonight, much of it we find under the category of putting conventional wisdom on its head. On Wall Street, the Dow finished above 11000 for the first time in 18 months. So, how will that play this political year?
And the Vatican said today it is changing the rules for dealing with sex abuse, but we ask tonight, would the church even be in this mess in the first place if women held real positions of power? You're going to hear some spirited debate on that one coming up a little later.
We will also later have the picture you have got to see, golfer Phil Mickelson with his cancer-stricken wife, Amy, right after his surprise Masters win, a little confirmation that sometimes nice guys do finish first.
We have all of that and a lot more coming up. But we do begin, as always, with your cheat sheet for the top stories of the day, our "Mash-Up."
Our number-one story is indeed President Obama's nuclear summit. It was pomp and circumstance, with an array of bilateral meetings and lots and lots of photo-ops. But, as the summit opened, the White House announced an agreement with Ukraine that White House officials called historic.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The stakes could not be higher. More than 2, 100 tons of highly enriched uranium and weapons-grade plutonium are scattered throughout the globe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To get the summit off on a positive note, it was announced that all of Chile's highly enriched uranium has been shipped to the United States.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The administration is urging countries to use nuclear fuel in their power plants that's harder to weaponize. It also wants more secure facilities for weaponized fuel. Today, Ukraine accepted the idea.
The leaders gathered as news emerged that Pakistan is expanding its nuclear program, even as it struggles with terrorist camps hiding within its own borders.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Tomorrow, we will also talk to a key Obama adviser on the nuclear threat, former Senator Sam Nunn.
Our top domestic story tonight, the absolutely chilling details of the failed plot to blow up New York City's subways. We're learning now just how close three men allegedly got to blowing up crowded trains in Times Square and Grand Central Station. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This man, the man in white shirt getting off of that chopper, that's Najibullah Zazi. They say that he along with two allies planned to bomb New York subway trains last September around the time of the 9/11 anniversary. His likely target dates were September 14 or the 15th or the 16th.
Zazi has been cooperating since his arrest last year. According to the feds, the three were planning to target the subway system's busiest stations, Grand Central and Times Square. And they are unbelievably busy if you have never been there. Wearing explosive vests, they would have boarded the trains, lines one, two, three, or six. Particularly for New Yorkers, that will make sense. And after the trains departed, they would have blown themselves up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Zazi is scheduled for sentencing in June. His two co- defendants pleaded not guilty. All three men went to the same high school in Flushing, Queens.
And the hot story in politics tonight, the brief but intense speculation that Hillary Clinton might be nominated to the Supreme Court. One of her former Senate colleagues, Senator Orrin Hatch, a senior Republican on the Judiciary Committee, was singing her praises on "The Today Show" this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ORRIN HATCH (R), UTAH: Yes, I even heard the name Hillary Clinton today. You know, and that would be an interesting person in the mix. Now, I happen to like Hillary Clinton. I think she's done a good job for the Democrat secretary of state's position. And I have a high respect for her and think a great deal of her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: But then, later this morning, a White House spokesman issued an official statement throwing cold water on the rumor, saying the president wants Clinton to remain as secretary of state. But the story getting all the buzz tonight, Conan O'Brien says yes to TBS. After months of speculation that he would end up on the FOX network, we learn today that TBS, our sister network, will be O'Brien's new home starting in November. His competition at 11:00 p.m., Jon Stewart's "The Daily Show."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DIANE SAWYER, HOST, "WORLD NEWS": The announcement caught a lot of people by surprise. He's going to be on Turner Broadcasting System, TBS.
BRIAN WILLIAMS, HOST, "NBC NIGHTLY NEWS": That's TBS with a T.
KATIE COURIC, HOST, "CBS EVENING NEWS": That surprise move means pushing George Lopez to midnight. Hey, isn't that how all of this started?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: O'Brien left NBC in January after hosting "The Tonight Show" for a long eight months.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Here's what Conan has said about the move -- and I quote -- "In three months, I have gone from network TV to Twitter to performing live in theaters, and now am I'm headed to basic cable. My plan is working perfectly."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And TBS losing no time getting the word out about their big get. The promo we just showed you started airing today, in fact.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, brings us to the "Punchline," tonight courtesy of Tina Fey. In her return to "SNL" over the weekend, of course, she took on none other than Sarah Palin. But, in a comedy double play, she did manage to also make fun of herself. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TINA FEY, ACTRESS: And last, but not least, the hilarious "30 Rock" parody "30 Main Street."
(LAUGHTER)
FEY: I play parody character Lez Lemons, an uppity (EXPLETIVE DELETED) so focused on her career that she's in her late 30s and still doesn't have grandchildren.
(LAUGHTER)
FEY: It also stars Stephen Baldwin, Governor Bobby Jindal, and RNC Chair Michael Steele.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP) BROWN: That was Fey's first time playing Palin since the 2008 presidential campaign.
And that is the "Mash-Up."
Coming up: a big day on Wall Street today, if you haven't heard, but Main Street still feeling serious economic pain. What is this going to mean come November? We will talk about what looks like in the political arena, also the international adoption that went very bad. An American family sends their adopted son back to Russia, and it happens here, too, more often than you may think.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: The Dow Jones industrial average closed above 11000 for the first time in 18 months, the rally providing more ammunition for economists who say that the great recession is finally over.
But with unemployment near 10 percent still and the housing crisis still very much with us, millions of Americans continue to hurt now. So, are we getting ahead of ourselves a little bit here? How will this impact voters, obviously, as the White House begins talking about this heading into the midterms.
Let's bring in Mark McKinnon, who is a contributor for The Daily Beast and former media adviser to President George W. Bush, also John McCain's presidential campaign as well. And former Clinton adviser and CNN political analyst James Carville joining us also.
Welcome to both of you.
Mark, let me start with you here.
I think, for weeks, we have been hearing President Obama say that the economy has turned a corner. Most polls, though, show voters still really are not buying it. Do you think today's numbers add a little heft to that or is it going to sort of turn people's outlook a little bit?
MARK MCKINNON, FORMER MEDIA ADVISER TO PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: I think it will. I think it's a big psychological lift. I think most of us remember 16 months ago when we were packing our knapsacks with spam and ammo and heading to the cave, things were melting down so badly.
So, I think this is important. I don't think the Democrats are going to -- I think they're keenly aware that this is really about jobs. But jobs should follow. The Dow at 11000 is a good psychological boost. It will give companies. Confidence means more investment. And investment ultimately means more jobs.
And we have got a lot of policy things happening out there that could affect the situation. But it's a good day. And it's good for the country.
BROWN: James, you know, Democrats do know that it's hard to sell sort of boom times on Wall Street as a turning point for millions of Americans. You know, those Wall Street traders are still the bad guys here. And it was interesting to me the DNC acknowledged as much in this new commercial I want people to watch. Take a look.
(CROSSTALK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)
NARRATOR: Wall Street's risk and greed cost us trillions, the result, the worst recession since the Great Depression. For decades, banks and credit card companies made the rules, pocketing billions on the backs of working families and small businesses who ended up bailing them out.
It could all happen again if we don't pass President Obama's plan to reform Wall Street.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So, James, if you're in the White House tonight, what would you be doing to capitalize on this news, given the balance that you have to try to strike here?
JAMES CARVILLE, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, there's no other -- there no discussion that they are having more often in the White House. And it's the hardest thing to do is how do you take credit when something is clearly getting better, but is not good enough, and you have a lot of people suffering?
We were horrendous with it in the Clinton administration. As Mark and, I'm sure, Campbell, you remember. The economy was actually improving in 1994. And a lot of good that it did us, and we didn't know how to talk about it. If I had any hair to pull out, I would pull it out trying to figure out a way to help these guys talk about it.
It is very difficult. I suspect that, if they need three or four months of sort of real job growth, that people start to feel a little bit better, they feel a bit -- and it's not just the people that are looking for a job. It's how secure that you feel in your own job, and that there's still a little bit ways where the public is going to give a sigh of relief.
Look, the markets are I think up something like 45 percent since the president took office. The markets are giddy about everything. I wish the stock market voted, but it doesn't.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: And to that point, James, though, you also have in this still, I think, or do you think it has lessened, the anger, that hunger for a little populist, I don't know, revenge, I guess, since many of these guys -- and I know as they try to deal -- toward many of these guys -- and as they try to deal with financial reform measures, you know, they're trying to show voters they're not too soft on big business. How does that play out?
CARVILLE: Right. It's not just revenge.
History has shown us that, if you leave financial markets to their own devices, they will blow themselves up. They're children. They're incapable of regulating themselves. They can't control their greed. Hyman Minsky, the great economist with Washington University in Saint Louis, pointed this out, as have any number of people.
So, if you don't come in and give these people on Wall Street supervision, they're going to do the same thing again. It's the nature of what they do. They're incapable of acting responsibly, particularly when they have cheap money. And every rational person knows this. Reform is not -- remember of these people and regulation is not some sort of revenge. It's sanity. It's not leaving children alone in the kindergarten. You can't do that. That's irresponsible.
It's irresponsible to allow these people the same thing.
BROWN: So, Mark, how do Republicans talk about this? Because they don't necessarily want to be the defenders of Wall Street either heading into November, right?
MCKINNON: Well, they have got a good bipartisan effort going out on out there supporting fiscal reforms. And they understand that there's a lot of pieces that need to come together.
But it's good for Obama and good for Republicans to work out a bipartisan solution to this. The populist sort of revolt doesn't do well politically. Ask Al Gore how that turned out.
So, if the Democrats just want to get pitchforks and take it to Wall Street, they could end up on the losing side, as populism often does. But it's not good policy either. And what we really need is a bipartisan bill to come out that everybody agrees on and get some bipartisan support for financial reform.
BROWN: Let me just go back to one other point, James. And that's you -- we talked -- you mentioned this, the unemployment numbers, is, if you don't see that number dropping significantly any time soon, what can the president possibly say to really convince voters that this is the top of his mind, the top of his agenda?
CARVILLE: Yes. Just by way -- this is a little bit of a damned if you do, damned if you don't, but when the job market starts to improve, more people enter it. So, that has an effect on the actual unemployment rate.
So, it might -- it sounds odd, but the unemployment rate could get worse before it gets better. But if they keep -- they had 162,000 jobs last month. Some of that was attributable to the census, but most of it wasn't.
If they get a decent number, if they continue to produce a decent number, and people feel like they can get back in the market, if people feel more secure in their jobs or they feel like there is progress, there could be some political benefit.
But I really don't expect that there's going to be a lot of political benefit in November. If there's a little bit, if it is 10 percent better than they are doing now, that would help a lot, I promise you.
BROWN: And, Mark, what happens if the Dow plunges and that this was a bubble that we're talking about here?
MCKINNON: Well, that's the big risk, that there could a double diplomat, and that would be -- have a lot of consequences politically.
So, I think it's a very tricky balance for President Obama and the Democrats to at one time be positive about the outlook, but not to overplay the hand that suggests that jobs are coming back, because they really haven't yet. And the fact is, they're you're probably not likely to come back until later than this year, which will be after the Republicans take the House because there aren't enough jobs.
BROWN: All right. Sit tight. Hang on. We have got more with both of you.
When we come back, I do another to talk about some of the wild speculation out there today about who President Obama might pick to fill the next Supreme Court seat. How does justice Hillary Rodham Clinton sound?
Right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: A surprise name to fill the seat of retiring Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens had all of Washington buzzing today. It was none other than Hillary Rodham Clinton.
Well, the White House quickly shut the story down, saying that Secretary Clinton is not being considered for the high court.
But why not?
Let's bring back Mark McKinnon, a contributor for The Daily Beast, and CNN political analyst James Carville.
And, Mark, you have been talking up the Hillary for justice for a while now. It was back in February that you wrote -- quote -- "Hillary could have the greatest impact on society. Most would agree she could have the greatest political influence by hanging around for a couple of decades, casting votes and writing opinions on the Supreme Court."
Why would this job have been such a good fit for her?
MCKINNON: Well, I think it's the best gig in Washington. It's the second most influential.
I think she would be really good. And, surprisingly -- here's a dirty little secret -- a lot of Republican senators like Hillary Clinton and she would get their vote. Now, the guy who would have a really tough position would be John McCain, who is down there in a tough reelection battle. But he really likes Hillary. And I know he would want to vote for.
So, it makes a lot of sense for her. And I think it makes a lot of sense for President Obama. I think it would forever heal any perceived or real rift with the Clintons. And I think she would be a damn good Supreme Court justice.
BROWN: That's what is so amazing about this, that there was a time where she was possibly the most polarizing woman in all of politics. And you think she would probably wouldn't have any problem getting confirmed, Mark, right?
MCKINNON: I really do, because I think Republican senators who have had actually worked with respect her a great deal.
BROWN: And, James, I know you're very close with Secretary Clinton. Has she ever expressed interest in a seat on the Supreme Court?
CARVILLE: I have never heard it. And it was Senator Hatch who said that he heard it somewhere. And, of course, once the thing like hit the -- hit...
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: I agree with Mark. Look, I think she would be a terrific Supreme Court justice. I don't know if the president has given any thought to appointing her or if she's given any thought to being on the Supreme Court. But, other than that, I think it would be a nifty idea.
And I think Mark is right. A lot of these Republicans like her, are quite fond of her. And she would probably be less trouble getting confirmed than someone else.
And our great justices, many of them came out of politics. Chief Justice Warren, probably the great -- one of the great Supreme Court justices of all time, a man who overturned segregated schools in this country, was a governor of California, Republican, at that.
So, it would be -- it's a great idea. I just don't know if anybody, other than Mark McKinnon, has had that idea.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: Well, to that point, the White House was pretty quick to put the kibosh on this earlier today. What do you think their reservations were? Why were they so fast to put the kibosh on it, Mark?
MCKINNON: Well, I don't know that they really have. I think that they have tried to stop it, because I think it was starting to overwhelm the process. And they wanted to slow that down. But what I heard them say, that she was doing a great job as secretary of state. I didn't hear them say that she wouldn't be a good Supreme Court justice.
BROWN: All right. Well, we will -- keeping doors open here.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Right. They're in the middle of a summit and they have got 1,000 things that the secretary of state is negotiating. And the last thing that they wanted is to have foreign governments think that the secretary of state is not going to be there in a month.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: And that probably was a good idea to put that -- I hope that they -- I would love it if they appoint her. I think Mark McKinnon deserves credit for having a brilliant idea.
BROWN: All right. Well, I will end it there then, in agreement.
Mark McKinnon, good to see you.
And, James Carville, as always.
Thanks, guys.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Coming up: Did the family who put their adopted child on a plane back to Russia break the law? We're going to talk about this very controversial case that's getting so much attention. The sheriff on the case just spoke. You are going to hear what he had to say right after this.
And we will go beyond this high-profile case as well. What are other families doing to cope with adopted children that they say they just can't handle right after the break?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Investigators say that family who put their adopted 7- year-old boy on a plane back to Russia alone is refusing to talk with them.
At a news conference today, Sheriff Randall Boyce said that means he has no choice but to press charges. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RANDALL BOYCE, BEDFORD COUNTY, TEXAS, SHERIFF: We got a call just a few minutes ago. This lady is not going to show up again. And it appears to me that what we're going to have to do at this point is continue the investigation, try to dig into and get enough evidence to bring charges. And that's the only way we're going to get to talk to her. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And without cooperation from the family, the sheriff said that he asked the State Department for some guidance here on how to proceed. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOYCE: ... feel that this is a little bit over a sheriff department's head. We deal with other things other than child adoptions, and in a foreign country.
And he said, well, the problem is, sheriff, there is no federal law that we can find, that there's no statute that we can find to charge anybody with on this. So, guess what? Tag. You're it.
(LAUGHTER)
BOYCE: We're looking now -- abuse has been mentioned. But the child is in Russia. Who knows if they're going to let that child come back here or not if need be. We're looking at maybe, possibly abandonment, several different things along those lines.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And joining us live right now from Washington is Christine James-Brown, who is CEO of the Child Welfare League of America.
Christine, this was an international adoption, obviously. I know your group looks into this with domestic adoptions, similar situations. How common is it? Because it appears to be, from what I have been reading, a lot more common that adoptions be disrupted in the middle or even dissolved after they have already gone through than many of us might think.
CHRISTINE JAMES-BROWN, CEO, CHILD WELFARE LEAGUE OF AMERICA: Well, actually, you're correct. CWLA is the leading voice for the child welfare system in the U.S. We focus on domestic violence.
So, that's really my lens, is domestic adoptions. And here in the U.S., we see about 51,000 adoptions a year. And between 10 percent and 50 percent -- 10 and 15 percent of those adoptions are disrupted.
BROWN: Ten percent to 15 percent?
JAMES BROWN: Yes. And there are many reasons for that.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Well, I was going to say, what are the primary reasons? Because, presumably, you do see the same things over and over.
JAMES-BROWN: Well, you see -- well, first of all, the CWLA is an advocate for making sure that parents who want to adopt children are prepared for that adoption.
So, we talk about training. We talk about support. We talk about making sure that those parents know where to go for services and how to access those services, because the problems that you see is if a child has a behavior problem, if the parents are dealing with a behavior issue that they just don't know how to deal with on their own, if they're dealing with the inability to provide the kind of health care that the child needs.
There are a number of factors that could result in an adoption going wrong, but it usually boils down to the fact that the parents were not prepared, that they didn't have enough information for what to expect.
These are children who have had trauma in their lives. So, parents need to be prepared. And as a standard-setter for practices related to foster care and adoption, Child Welfare League of America, CWLA, is very, very clear on this issue, that every state should have a requirement that any parent or any family that wants to adopt a child should make sure that they get the proper training and support to do that.
BROWN: Right. OK, let me ask you, though, because here's where I struggle a little bit.
People who adopt almost always, it seems, have gone to great lengths to become that child's parent. It's not like this can take place overnight. I have a lot of friends and a lot of people I know who have tried to adopt kids.
JAMES-BROWN: Absolutely.
BROWN: It takes time. It takes commitment. So, what changes to make them want to sever that connection?
JAMES-BROWN: It's -- now, first of all, we have to remember, we're talking about 10 percent to 15 percent, which is too many.
But, in those situations, it's a combination of, again, the families may be loving and want to do it, but they may not have realized the reality of having a child in their home, particularly a child that has problems, a child that's been exposed to violence or trauma in their families and in their neighborhoods.
And they just don't know where to go for services. The important thing, as I said, is the training.
BROWN: Right.
JAMES-BROWN: Find the services. Behavioral health care services, for example.
BROWN: Let me ask you this family that, you know, was dealing with this kid from Russia and, again, we don't know a lot of the details involved here, obviously. So, I don't want to focus entirely on them, but given what we do know, what should they have done? JAMES-BROWN: They should have called, first of all, they should have started by calling the place that facilitated the adoption for them to make sure that that place understands that they were having problems with the relationship, that they needed some support and services. And that place should have come to their assistance to make sure that that family and that adoption could have continued. In the United States, you call the state for children who are adopted out of the foster care system. And the state has all kinds of training. CWLA years ago wrote something called pride training that's for adoptive parents.
BROWN: Right.
JAMES-BROWN: And that training is available to them. So, there are any number of services the families should have started first by reaching out and asking for help.
BROWN: Absolutely. Christine James Brown, really appreciate your time tonight. Thanks for being with us.
JAMES-BROWN: Thank you.
BROWN: When we come back, Gary Tuchman, our own Gary Tuchman visited one remarkable place that is trying to find the answer for families with adopted children who do have severe behavioral problems. That when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: And now what promises to be a solution to troubled adoptions, a solution designed to reunite a home divided. Now, the results not always positive, but the program does give hope to parents who just can't cope. CNN's Gary Tuchman traveled to Montana to give us this intimate and rare look inside a ranch for troubled adopted children.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Eleven-year-old Alec is a precocious, intelligent child, but he said and done things that have greatly threatened his parents. Did you threaten to hurt them?
ALEC COLE: Yes.
TUCHMAN: What did you say to them?
ALEC COLE: Things like I'm going to kill you. I'm going to punch you.
TUCHMAN: Beth and bill Cole are Alec's mom and dad.
BETH COLE, ALEC'S MOM: I adore him. I love him, and I just want him to have a good future, just as normal as can be.
TUCHMAN: This is from a videotape Alec's parents gave us. They took this video because psychologists, psychiatrist, and social workers didn't necessary believe or understand what Alec has done. And now his pained parents have taken drastic measures. Alec is no longer living with them in Florida. He lives in Montana on a ranch for deeply troubled adopted children.
ALEC COLE: I think about them almost like every day.
TUCHMAN: Alec's parents adopted him from an orphanage in the former Soviet Republic of Belarus when he was a toddler. They also adopted their daughter, Lauren, from the same country who is having a much easier time in this home.
ALEC COLE: It's like any other orphanage, basically.
TUCHMAN: Yes, I understand.
ALEC COLE: Very poor.
TUCHMAN: I understand.
Alec lives in what is called the ranch for kids with a grandmother who has raised Russian orphans of her own, Joyce Sterkel.
JOYCE STERKEL, RANCH FOR KIDS: The purpose is to assist parents and children and reunite them with each other if they've had difficulty because of attachment issues or Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder.
TUCHMAN: Like many of the 25 children at the ranch for kids, Alec has dramatic mood swings. At the worst, he's violent and threatening.
What has he said to you in terms of threats?
COLE: The worst is that he's going to kill us. Kill all of us, burn down the house.
BILL COLE, ALEC'S DAD: He's talked about wanting to blow up the house, wanting to burn down the house, wanting to get a knife to stab us with it, and seems silly, but maybe not, we took the step to hide the knives and the kitchen knives in the house and put them up to where he couldn't get to them.
TUCHMAN: Your parents have told the people here that you once said I'll get a gun and shoot you in the neck then in the heart. Did you say that to them?
ALEC COLE: Yes.
TUCHMAN: How come?
ALEC COLE: Because I just get mad.
TUCHMAN: Do you remember what else you said to them that maybe mean?
ALEC COLE: I'm going to stab them. I'll stab them. TUCHMAN: You want to stab them. How does that make you feel?
ALEC COLE: Sad.
TUCHMAN: I understand, because they love you so much, right? You know what, they love you and that's the most important thing. And you love them, right?
Parents send their children here for about $3500 a month. It's an option that Tennessee mom, Terry Hanson may not have known existed for her adopted son, Justin. He was sent back by himself on a plane to Russia. For other families, the ranch is a destination of last resort.
STERKEL: All of our kids, they've been to the psychiatrist, they've been to the psychologists, they've been to the therapists, they've been medicated.
TUCHMAN: So, you're saying that people have the expertise haven't done anything for them?
STERKEL: In many cases. I'm not saying all, but in many cases, those modalities failed.
TUCHMAN: They get love here, but sometimes, it's tough love. There is a lot of snow to shovel and chores to do. They go to school where in addition to the three Rs, there is lessons in human relations.
ALEC COLE: I am sad because I have been mean and treated my family. I feel sorry for the way I've treated people in the past. The end.
TUCHMAN (on-camera): It sounds like a feel good story. It is. And it isn't. That's because the endings are not always happy ones. Sometimes, these children don't improve enough to go back home. Other times, they're parents just don't want them back.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): But most of the parents are desperate for their kids to get better and come home.
Is there any chance that you would realize that maybe he would be too dangerous to be back in your family setting and that you would send him to a foster home or maybe get another family to adopt him?
BILL COLE: No.
BETH COLE: Not at all.
TUCHMAN: No chance at all?
BETH COLE: No, he's our son.
TUCHMAN: Gary Tuchman, CNN, Eureka, Montana.
(END VIDEOTAPE) BROWN: And tonight at 10, Anderson Cooper takes a closer look at this program. Coming up here, is it time for women in the Catholic Church, why some point to the Vatican's all boys power structure as part of the reason for the sex scandal rocking the very foundation of the church.
And then we're in Martin and Mary Matalin here to square off in the day's most interesting water cooler talk, M squared.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Time now for our M squared segment featuring two of our best, Mary Matalin and Roland martin, and they are here in New York tonight with their distinctive cakes on some of the day's most talked about stories. Hey, guys, what have you got?
MARY MATALIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: We don't have a nice New Orleanean dinner right in front of us.
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: No food, but that's a good thing.
MATALIN: That's a very true here. You're looking quite dapper tonight.
MARTIN: We did not work this color thing out, but --
MATALIN: We got the color thing going on. We got water cooler topics everybody's talking about. Campbell, all of us, were deeply outraged by this poor little Russian boy being sent back with a note pinned to his chest from his mother can't deal with it. It's like every day in kids.
MARTIN: This is crazy. First of all, did this woman go to Russia and bring the kid back? Or did she say, hey, just put a note on him and I'll pick him up at the airport here in America? I just can't imagine even if you don't want to keep this child, you went through the process for you to put this kid on the plane, given that level of trauma and say, hey, I don't want you, I'm throwing you away. Go back home.
MATALIN: It's unimaginable. It's horrible. There's no mom that you can -- she must have been at her last nerve which is not an excuse. But to make it an international incident, to not -- this woman is clearly traumatized, too. Instead of going to a church or somebody that can help her and help him, now we have diplomats flying off to Russia, and Russia stopping all the other adoptions for those thousands of kids who are on their way to this country.
MARTIN: This is what happens when you begin to operate in this international world when it comes to adoption. A country takes a personal front in this kind of resurgence. I mean remember the whole story with Madonna and that particular kid? They had a whole, you know, court hearing and everything. That wasn't simply one simple adoption case. It became to sort of, you know, national sort of discussion. MATALIN: And there's a better way to fix that than to have diplomats involved.
MARTIN: I agree. I agree. But the mother, frankly, not with the kid on the plane with a note attached. I don't think it would have gotten this level of attention.
MATALIN: You're right.
MARTIN: All right.
MATALIN: So, let's move on to a better mother.
MARTIN: Speaking of level of attention. The supreme court, of course, John Paul Stevens stepping down. President Barack Obama is going to make another appointment, and all of us, the talk is about Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. Didn't take the White House long to actually squash her as being on the short list for the Supreme Court.
MATALIN: They need her at the state department, tougher. Aren't you -- don't you feel better with her over there? But I guess the White House is pretty quick, Mr. Gibbs gets pretty quick when he wants something. All right. let's hear what he has to say about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I think the president has identified Secretary Clinton a job he thinks she's doing a capacity in which she's doing a wonderful job. And the president is going to keep her as his Secretary of State.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: I just love the fact, I mean, a lot of Republicans could not stand this woman. I mean they hated her guts. Now, it's like oh, she's wonderful. She's great.
MATALIN: They love her. The senators like her. Their horn hatch is not trying to stir something up. They have a genuine affection for her.
MARTIN: A lot of concern (ph) could not stand her before the U.S. senate.
MATALIN: Long ago and far away in another life. Everything is relative, if you will know. Relative to what's sitting there now. I think there is an appreciation for her at the state department. We would rather have somebody more conservative there, but she is tougher, stronger, and smarter --
MARTIN: But this is super liberal. I mean, all of a sudden saying, oh, she will be great. I mean, she was -- she's been used by Republicans to raise more money than anybody else.
MATALIN: Oh, yes. That doesn't happen except on our side. MARTIN: No, no. I was just making a point that she's been used for that.
MATALIN: Better water cooler, off Hillary, talking about her, not her (ph).
MARTIN: Oh, God, please, please do not, oh, just --
MATALIN: The church. We've managed to avoid talking about the church in our week together, but we're going to talk about it today, because the church is hip hopping, apparently --
MARTIN: Catholic Church. Don't start that.
MATALIN: Okay. All right.
MARTIN: Not the husband of an ordained minister. Don't start. That's the only church --
MATALIN: I'll say my one true church is paying homage today.
(CROSSTALK)
MATALIN: The Beatles are good. They are -- our God given capacity to appreciate beauty. We get that Ringo did not care, however. Ringo is not happy one way or the other.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RINGO STARR, FORMER BEATLE: I think that the Vatican should -- I think they got more to talk about than the Beatles.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: I mean, obviously, you know, look, he has issues a long time ago with the comment John Lennon about the Beatles being more popular than Jesus and so a lot of folks in the Catholic Church and other Christian face took offense to that particular comment. But I don't mind the Vatican being a little hip. I mean, all of a sudden, they have a list with two pop, had a song on, you know a few months ago. I mean, I can imagine the pope getting his groove on. Listen to the Beatles with Tupac on his iPhone.
MATALIN: It is the source of beauty. It is the ability to reproduce beauty. It is the ability to appreciate it. There is the one true church who's always had it for those single notes to Ave Maria. You name it.
MARTIN: You kind of slid one in for the one true church.
(CROSSTALK)
MATALIN: Okay. All right. We love all --
MARTIN: But it's all good. But again, I mean, I do appreciate the Vatican trying to be a little more up to date and relevant and speaking to a much younger demo by embracing the Beatles and Tupac and other folks.
MATALIN: From the beginning of time, there'll always be relevance.
MARTIN: I can't wait to see Jay-Z performing at St. Peters Square.
MATALIN: Okay. We'll see what we can do about that. Ringo, we forgive you.
MARTIN: Campbell, back to you.
BROWN: All right, guys. Thanks very much.
"Larry King Live" starts in just a few minutes. Larry, what do you have for us tonight?
LARRY KING, HOST: We have the latest on Conan O'Brien and his new deal with our sister station yet, TBS, one of our own. Plus, we'll be updating you on the mystery in Mexico involving a former survivor producer whose wife was found dead. Duane "Dog" Chapman will be here with some insight.
And what would you do if you adopted a child who was more than you could handle? One you called psychotic? The outrage over an American woman's decision to send a little boy back to Russia. All that next on "Larry King Live" -- Campbell.
BROWN: All right. Larry, we'll see you in a few minutes. Coming up right here, can women save the Catholic Church? Why the sex abuse scandal rocking the Vatican has reignited the fight for female priests.
And a story book ending for this year's masters. Why Phil Mickelson's win left just about everybody with a tear in their eye. A moment you don't want to miss. Still ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Under fire for weeks. The Vatican today announced it is overhauling its rules for handling sex abuse cases. That's all officials would say. The church isn't giving out many details just yet. However, it did publish a new summary of existing procedures and stressed all allegations of abuse must be reported to civil authorities if local law requires. Is it too little too late? In this week's cover story, "Newsweek" magazine argues the Vatican cannot overcome its credibility gap until it moved into the modern age. And the first step, welcoming women into what they say is history's oldest all boys club.
"Newsweek's" Lisa Miller is the author of the article, and she's joining me right now along with Janet Smith who is chair of Life Ethics at Sacred Heart Major Seminary in Detroit. Lisa, let me start with you here. You believe that if women were allowed to become priests, actually, that the Catholic Church would not have this massive sex abuse scandal on its hands right now. Explain the reasoning here.
LISA MILLER, RELIGION EDITOR, NEWSWEEK: It's not just priests. If women were integrated into the church hierarchy at all levels, not just ordained into the priesthood which is against catholic teaching, but in the hierarchy as administrators, as managers, as powerful leaders, having powerful positions in the Vatican, having powerful positions in diocese, if they were really integrated into the power structure, they would not be -- the men would not look so out of touch, I think.
BROWN: But why -- like draw me the line that directly correlates us to the sex abuse scandal at the massive level that it's taking place.
MILLER: One mom in one room where a bishop was deciding what to do about a pedophile priest would have probably stopped many, many lives from being miserable for a long time. I mean, I just think the experience of being a parent helps people understand the tragedy. And what the hierarchy hasn't done is transmit any kind of understanding about the tragedy here is.
BROWN: That's a fair point. Janet, do you agree with that? Do you think we would have fewer cases of abuse today if we had -- if not women priests, then women certainly at various levels in the hierarchy that currently don't exist?
JANET SMITH, SACRED HEART MAJOR SEMINARY: It's an interesting hypothesis and there are lots of ways of testing it. There is an enormous amount of sexual abuse say in the public schools. And the public schools are dominated by the presence of women. So, it seems to me we could a study to see if women in the public schools have done a better job of reporting sexual abuse than the men have. I mean, I would love to think that parents would be much more sensitive to sexual abuse than those who aren't parents. I suspect that's true.
I suspect it's equally true of fathers as of mothers. I mean, I've heard from many people that reported their abuse to their mothers who did nothing about that abuse. So, it's an idealistic view of women which I'd like to share, and it may be true, but the church is certainly doing that. If you go to web sites of diocese, something like one quarter of the chancellors of the diocese in United States are women. That is an enormous proportion compared to women in top universities, women in law firms, and women in business.
BROWN: But women are not allowed to be ordained priest. I mean, there's a huge difference there. I mean, and you oppose that, I should be clear about this, right? You do not believe that women should be ordained?
SMITH: Absolutely, I accept the church's teaching on that. I think the most people have no idea why the church teaches what it teaches. They think the church is just like any organization, and this is rising up through the ranks. But the church understands the priesthood as a sacramental sign. That's even at itself will take volumes to explain to most people. But maybe it's a simplistic way of explaining it, but the priesthood has a certain role as oppose -- the priest is supposed to play Jesus much as we wouldn't let a female play Hamlet. We wouldn't let a female play the priest.
BROWN: But -- no. I see the point you're making here. But it's much more than that. I mean, it's clearly all the power and all the control that exists in the hierarchy of the catholic churches with men. I mean, it's not just about playing a certain role.
SMITH: Great.
BROWN: Let me let lisa jump in here.
MILLER: I mean, I have two points to make here. The first is that mothers did go to bishops, especially in the United States, and say these terrible things are happening to my kid, sometimes, many of my kids. And the bishops were not just, you know, hush them up but marginalized them and told them to go away. So, it's not as though the women were actually playing an active role in this situation. They were being told to shut up and go away. Excuse me.
And then the second part is that in the apostle Paul when he wrote his letter to the Romans, he spoke of many women being workers in the church in the early church. That's in the first century after the birth of Jesus. And there was even an apostle named Junia who later scribes a race from the bible because they couldn't believe that a woman would actually be an apostle. There is a precedent for women being active members, not just of the congregation, not just of the faithful, but actually of the power structure.
BROWN: And this is a -- I wish -- this is a debate that is going to take hours, I fear, and get us off of the issue of sexual abuse. And I want to play off of the news today. But I want to have you both back, because this is a very interesting discussion. And I really wish we had more time, Janet and Lisa Miller. Thank you very much for joining us. "Larry King Live" is going to start in just a few minutes.
But first, Phil Mickelson's very emotional Masters victory, the real story behind that. One for the story books right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We leave you to night with this weekend's most uplifting moment. This was a real tear jerker at the 18th Hole of the Masters. It started when Phil Mickelson made a birdy, clinch his third Augusta National win, a triumphant moment made sweeter by the presence of his wife, Amy, diagnosed with breast cancer 11 months ago. She stayed in bed most of the week. Even her husband wasn't sure if she'd be there until he sank that winning putt and turned to find her in the crowd.
Simple hug that says more about commitment and character than any TV commercial ever could. That's it for us, "Larry King Live" starts right now.
