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Campbell Brown
Tax Day Tea Party Rallies; Volcano Disrupts Air Travel
Aired April 15, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everybody.
It is a tax day like no other. While you have been rushing around trying to finish your 1040, protesters across the country have been taking to the streets at hundreds of Tea Party rallies. They are angry about taxes. They are angry about government spending. Most of all, they are angry at the president.
Take a look at the scene now. This is the National Mall in Washington, D.C. Let's see if we can get a picture there. This is a live picture of the National Mall down in Washington. We are also at rallies in New York City.
You can see that there again here in New York. But, for all the fiery protest, the Tea Party well, is it a genuine political movement or has it peaked to some extent? We are going to talk to one of the movement's top leaders in just a moment.
And that leads us to a thread that is running through the hour, potentially explosive situations, some of them literally explosives. And I'm -- explosive. And I'm talking, of course, about that volcano in Iceland that has much of Europe under a cloud of ash tonight, thousands of flights grounded. How long is this going to last? How much will it cost?
We're going to map it all out for you.
Plus, there is also an international incident that threatens to turn explosive. It is the growing controversy over Russian adoptions. We have been covering the story for you ever since that Tennessee family sent their adopted 7-year-old back to Moscow.
Well, tonight, confusion about Russia -- about whether Russia will allow any more adoptions at all. And we have the wrenching story about how some Americans right now are caught in the middle of this.
So, a lot to get to tonight. But we will begin, as always, with your cheat sheet for all the top stories of the day.
And we start with our top international story. It is, of course, what I mentioned earlier, the travel chaos caused by the cloud of volcanic ash sweeping across Europe. It started when a volcano erupted in Iceland yesterday. And experts say there is no telling when the skies will clear.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Eyjafjallajokull volcano erupted into life last month, after lying dormant for nearly 200 years. The lava flows were spectacular. And so were the floodwaters thundering off a nearby glacier. But it's the vast plume of ash and dust three-and-a- half miles high that's causing havoc in Europe's airspace.
BRIAN WILLIAMS, HOST, "NBC NIGHTLY NEWS": This is what it did to air travel in Europe from 3:00 a.m. to noon, all the flights landed. It just ground to a halt. More than 4,000 flights have been canceled.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Volcanic ash contains tiny particles of rock, glass and sand. When an airplane hits ash cloud, those particles sandblast the windshield, dramatically reducing visibility. A greater danger, the ash can get sucked into the engines, melt, and shut them down completely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: We are going to have a whole lot more on this story coming up for you a little bit later in the hour.
Here at home tonight, our number-one story is President Obama at the Kennedy Space Center. He had some good news and some bad news for NASA. The good news? Another $6 billion for the agency over the next five years. The bad news, no more moon shots.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We can't just keep on doing the same old things we have been doing and thinking that somehow is going to get us to where we want to go.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It was almost like a been there, done that when he explained the moon mission that had happened before and why he was scrapping it.
KATIE COURIC, HOST, "CBS EVENING NEWS": The president outlined a new plan that includes manned missions to Mars.
OBAMA: By the mid-2030s, I believe we can send humans to orbit Mars and return them safely to Earth, and a landing on Mars will follow. And I expect to be around to see it.
(APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the short term, American astronauts will be reliant on spacecraft from private corporations and Russia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Apollo 11 astronaut Buzz Aldrin supports the new plan. He even rode on Air Force One with President Obama to Cape Canaveral, though he apparently, according to the president, was not that impressed by a plane that couldn't make it into orbit. And our top political story tonight also coming from the president. He made a stop in Miami tonight, speaking at a Democratic National Committee fund-raiser. And, no surprise, he had taxes and Tea Partiers on his mind.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Since today happens to be tax day...
(LAUGHTER)
OBAMA: ... I should just point out that one-third of the Recovery Act went to tax cuts, tax cuts that strengthened the cornerstone of the American dream. I have been a little amused over the last couple of days where people have been having these rallies about taxes, taxes.
(LAUGHTER)
OBAMA: You would think they would be saying thank you.
(APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: That's what you would think.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: Some of my Republican friends, who were warning that after health care passed, this was going to be Armageddon.
So, I went to NASA today. And I asked some of the guys. I said, are asteroids coming? They told me America's going to be OK.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And on this April 15, the White House did also release President Obama's tax returns. He and the first lady made $5.5 million last year, mostly from sales of his books. And they paid nearly $1.8 million in taxes.
And here's the pop culture story everybody is going to be buzzing about, Willie Nelson with our own Larry King. Larry noticed that Willie seemed a little bit let's say relaxed during their interview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "LARRY KING LIVE")
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Could you smoke like a few joints and go on stage and sing?
WILLIE NELSON, MUSICIAN: Oh, sure, sure. But I have a huge tolerance for it that maybe everyone doesn't have.
KING: Did you smoke today?
NELSON: Do you want to smoke cigarettes?
KING: Did you smoke pot today, today, this day?
NELSON: Yes, sure. Yes.
KING: You did before you came here?
NELSON: Yes.
KING: So you...
NELSON: Do what?
KING: ... have pot in you right now?
NELSON: Yes. You can arrest me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And then, to top it all off, Willie and Larry also sing a duet of "Blue Skies." And you can see the whole thing tomorrow night on "LARRY KING LIVE."
And that brings us to the "Punchline" tonight courtesy of Jon Stewart. And you might imagine he has got his own take on the president's big nuclear meeting this week. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JON STEWART, HOST, "THE DAILY SHOW WITH JON STEWART": Forty- seven world leaders in one place, quite a meeting, all the big shots on the red carpet. Hey, France, how you doing, you son of a bitch? You just visited. Nice to see you. Hey, Russia, you crazy bastard, you remember that treaty? We will always have Prague. Hey, China, how you doing? You think I'm going to bow? You think I'm going to bow? Boom. Head-butt. Head-butt. Boom.
(LAUGHTER)
STEWART: Boom. Head-butt.
He likes to mix it up.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Jon Stewart, everybody. And that is the "Mash-Up."
Tonight, a new April 15 tradition alive and well, as the Tea Party movement brings thousands of people to the streets across the country in hundreds of rallies. You are going to hear directly from one of those who made the trip -- coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VICTORIA JACKSON, ACTRESS (singing): I bite my lip a lot and fidget with the buttons on my blouse. Why? Because there's a communist living in the White House.
(LAUGHTER)
JACKSON (singing): Why aren't people shocked or something? Why aren't people up in arms? Does anyone read history or see red flags or hear alarms? The streets are filled with deaf and dumb, as I squeak like a mouse: There's a communist living in the White House.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Former "Saturday Night Live" star Victoria Jackson at today's Tea Party big Tea Party gathering down in Washington, not holding back about how she feels about President Obama.
It was one of several rallies across the country on this tax day. Organizers hope it's just the start of what will lead to a huge shakeup in Washington come November.
We spent the day with one man who made the trip to Washington, a recently retired small business owner who supplied parts to automakers. This is his fourth Tea Party event.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHUCK SMITH, TEA PARTY MEMBER: But I'm Chuck Smith. And I'm from Rome County, Tennessee. I have never been even remotely an activist, not even consider myself an activist today. But, at the same time, I think that it's time to speak up for tax issues and for encroachment-of-government issues and begin to wake up. And I think I'm just probably very typical of the Tea Party movement.
There's fringes I think in every group. And we would like to think that that's a very small amount of what the Tea Party is. But we are not stupid enough to think it doesn't exist as well. I'm back today for the rally, but hoping without an appointment I might get to see Senator Lamar Alexander.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
SMITH: Hello.
He probably is not just quite as conservative as most of the Tea Parties would like to see on some issues, but I think that, given the big picture, I think we're proud of what he's stood up, especially in recent days.
My expression is, don't let perfect be the enemy of good, which you take what you can get. And I think the senator has done a pretty good job. And enjoyed just signing in, letting him know that we appreciate his votes.
Thank you again. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you. Thank you for stopping by.
SMITH: We will be back.
It seems silly that you would come all the way to Washington just to stand in a crowd, but it is numbers. And Washington does count noses. And whether it's 50 people they will ignore or 500 they might listen to or 50,000, they will stop and say, what are they saying?
Like we said, it's about counting noses. And there's a lot of noses here tonight. So, it might make a difference. Hope so.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Just one of thousands of people rallying today.
Right now, Amy Kremer is director of grassroots and coalitions for the Tea Party Express. And she spent three weeks on that 23-state road trip and she is joining me tonight from Washington.
Hey there, Amy.
AMY KREMER, DIRECTOR OF GRASSROOTS AND COALITIONS, TEA PARTY EXPRESS: Hey, Campbell. Thanks for having me.
BROWN: Good to have you here.
I know you have been with this movement from the very beginning. Talk to me about how the focus has changed since then.
KREMER: Well, you know, this movement is a little over a year old. And we -- when it first started, people were just angry in general about what was happening with the out-of-control spending, excessive taxation and government intrusion.
And now it's kind of progressed to where people are more focused on particular candidates and issues. And they are educating themselves, so that they can go to the ballot box and vote on principles and values come November, because that's how we're going to make change.
BROWN: And I know you came out today with your list of what you call heroes and targets for the midterm elections. Who do you see right now as public enemy number one?
KREMER: Well, Harry Reid is number one. And we have targeted him since last year. And we're working to defeat him. There are several others. Arlen Specter is one. But we are working to defend -- or to purge the worst offenders and to bring in some true conservatives.
BROWN: But we do know you can win elections. You led the effort to help Scott Brown win in Massachusetts, a lot of people think. And since he's been in office, though, he has voted against you on a number of issues, like the jobs bill, which, you know, I think you know, adds $13 billion to our debt. Do you feel betrayed by him? KREMER: Well, look, I mean, in that particular election, you know, he is a conservative for the state of Massachusetts. Just the fact that he took a seat that had been filled by a liberal elected official for many years, we don't expect him to be a far, far-right conservative. He's more of a moderate, and we understand that.
But you're voting for the lesser...
BROWN: So, you're willing to cut him slack on stuff like this?
KREMER: Well, I mean, it's not that we're cutting him slack. But it's about being reasonable.
You know, we can't -- it's meeting in the middle on some things. We're not always going to have everybody see everything our way and everything's going to go our way. You know, it's about coming to the middle and finding some common ground.
And while he may have voted for the jobs bill, you know, I mean, health care was our number-one priority at that time. And that's why people worked to get him elected.
BROWN: But do you worry, especially heading into the midterms, that -- that there are going to be certain candidates who are using you, in effect, and don't intend to sort of hold -- hold your positions once they are elected? And how then do you hold them accountable?
KREMER: Well, you know, I think that comes back to, this movement is very powerful, on the national level , to come together and hold rallies like we did several weeks ago at the Capitol, to vote for Scott Brown and get him elected. That was a state election. It turned into a national election.
Bart Stupak -- Bart Stupak, we just put pressure on him, and he announced his retirement last week. But while we're powerful to come -- we are able to come together on a national level, the real power lies in the local and the state level. And that's where the education needs to happen, the boots on the ground, in the trenches, you know, grassroots training, so that people, as I said, when they go to the polls in November, they vote on principles and values, and not according to the letter next to somebody's name.
That means they have to do their research before they go to the polls.
BROWN: Let me ask you, though, because we have heard so much from the Tea Party movement, from you guys generally, about the excessive spending in Washington.
And if it comes down to it, which it sounds like it has to, for this issue to be addressed, cutting the biggest government programs we have, Social Security and Medicare, would you be willing to cut those things from your own life? Are you ready to make those sacrifices?
KREMER: You know, I'm not an economist. I'm not an accountant. I don't do the budgets. That's why we hire these elected officials to do the tough jobs.
BROWN: But let me stop you right there, because nobody is asking you to be an economist an accountant on this. Everybody agrees, I think, in Washington that, if you really want to address spending, I don't care what -- whether you're a Democrat or Republican, anything, and you don't have to have a degree in economics to understand this -- that you have to address entitlements, Social Security and Medicare, in order to get spending truly under control and to address the deficit and debt issues.
So, given that, are you willing to make those sacrifices?
(CROSSTALK)
KREMER: I think that, you know, being reasonable, we are willing to make sacrifices.
I'm not going to say what we are willing to make sacrifices on. But I think we need to make -- you know, have those discussions and let the conversations begin. The bottom line is, is that we cannot sustain this out-of-control spending. I mean, we can't do it.
We are going to bankrupt this country. And we have to make cuts somewhere. We have to have the money to pay for these programs that we're implementing.
BROWN: All right. Well, we appreciate your time. Thank you very much for being with us tonight, Amy.
We're going to continue our look at the Tea Party with two of the smartest political minds around. When we come back, is this movement -- or is the Tea Party becoming a true movement? Is it starting to peak? We will analyze this a little more right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We are back talking about the Tea Party, which drew big crowds today in Washington and at many other rallies nationwide. It's clear the organizers know how to get people's attention.
To hear them talk, they are making Washington stand up and take notice. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEN HOAGLAND, TEA PARTY MEMBER: We know that that tax code is very good for people in Washington and very bad and destructive for our country, but there is nothing we can do about it? I say no.
JIM TOMASIK, TEA PARTY MEMBER: We have got to take the country back by taking back the way they take our money from us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: With me now to assess whether the Tea Party can harness that energy to win elections is "TIME" magazine senior political analyst Mark Halperin, also author of "Game Change," and John Avlon, author of "Wingnuts: How the Lunatic Fringe is Hijacking America," and senior political columnist for DailyBeast.com.
John, let me start with you.
It's tax day, so, no surprise, a lot of anti-tax rhetoric out there at all these rallies today, but you actually think that's the wrong issue for them to be focusing on.
(CROSSTALK)
JOHN AVLON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, in the macro sense.
What the Tea Parties are fundamentally about actually are spending. It's about attacking excessive spending. And focusing on taxes alone I think misses the bigger picture. It's also worth noting that, this year, the first year of the Obama administration, federal taxes actually went down. Now, they are on their way up next year, but just reality check on that, folks.
BROWN: And, Mark, we heard from this Tea Party activist who was on right before you who unveiled their picks of sort of today at a number of these rallies, their picks of heroes and targets for the midterms. How seriously should both parties, I guess, be taking this list?
MARK HALPERIN, SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST, "TIME": Well, seriously, because they are pretty smart in the races they chose. They're places, I think, where, in most cases, they can have a big effect just by turning out to vote.
Now, what they really want, though, is not to affect elections. They want to affect outcomes. They want to affect the national agenda. And you can listen to all those speeches, the clips you played and others. They care about taxes and they care about spending, but they don't have proposals.
I admire and celebrate their activism and their efforts to change.
BROWN: Right now, it's raw passion.
HALPERIN: And there's no specifics. And even the leaders, even the more prominent people who spoke today, taking your country back, not letting Washington have its way, these are platitudes.
And I think, if they want to have a real influence on their lives on the lives of Americans, they are going to have to be more specific than we heard today. And today was I thought a chance to be more specific.
BROWN: And that gets to the other point, I guess, which is in how they choose their candidates. If they aren't real clear about what their mission is, how do they prevent another sort of Scott Brown situation, I guess? How do they hold the people that they do end up backing accountable and make sure that they are going to stick with them on the issues?
AVLON: I think people in the movement have a choice to make. They celebrate the fact that they don't have leaders, that it's bottoms-up.
But the reality is, we saw it work in the recent past with Ross Perot. There was a leader who took the issue and imposed it upon the major parties. It's very hard in this country to move the two major parties out of the way.
I think what they need to do is find a route to influence the major parties, so there is lower spending in Washington. That's an admirable goal. But, again, the way they are pursuing it now, I don't think they are going to get there.
BROWN: So, they may not have real leaders, but they have -- I don't know how you would characterize Michele Bachmann, a Tea Party darling.
But I want to play a little tape, because this is some intense rhetoric coming out of some of these rallies today. And this is her railing against President Obama, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid on their plans for financial reform. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MICHELE BACHMANN (R), MINNESOTA: I think they don't realize that you're I.Q. scores are way above average.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BACHMANN: We're onto them. We're onto this gangster government. And we are not going to let them have their way. They don't get to take over any more of our economy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Gangster government.
AVLON: Ah, yes, gangster government. We have heard this before. It's also been called a thugocracy. These are pretty standard Michele Bachmann lines, real red meat for these crowds.
But take a step back. Is this really helpful? Does this actually move the ball forward?
BROWN: And let me just -- I think this is a live picture. Am I right, guys? This is her. Yes, she's speaking right now, I should say, in Washington live. Go ahead.
AVLON: Sure.
I mean, here you have one of the more polarizing figures in American politics and throwing out lines that a lot of people, you know, take offense at. They may be talking about Chicago. Maybe they are referring to something else, but it's that kind of rhetoric. You can build a broad movement on fiscal discipline, deficit, debt. These are important issues. But every time you see strains of Obama derangement syndrome start sneaking into this debate, it alienates the folks they are going to need to win over to have any meaningful long-term impact.
BROWN: Do you agree with that?
HALPERIN: Well, I think the press is hyper-scrutinizing of the Tea Party movement. There are some things they do that I think we see in normal discourse as unfair. They are scrutinized too much.
But things like that that are either code words or very careless I think deserve scrutiny. And they shouldn't be responsible...
BROWN: Code words as in racial.
HALPERIN: Yes.
BROWN: Yes.
HALPERIN: They shouldn't be responsible for everything anybody who says they're from the Tea Party movement. We shouldn't let that obscure from the serious issues.
But Michele Bachmann is a member of Congress. She's a recognized national leader of a segment of our political sphere, spectrum. And I think, again, she's either using a code word or she's being careless. In either case, that does deserve scrutiny. And it does -- if I was someone in the movement and I cared a lot about the issues of deficit reduction, lower taxes, less power in Washington, I would want to be really careful and not let the press jump on those things and let it obscure what they are trying to do.
BROWN: Let me ask you both, in the context of that, what you said, using sort of the code words, I guess you could say.
"The New York Times" polled Tea Party supporters. And one of the interesting things they found, John, is that 25 percent of Tea Party supporters think that the president's policies favor blacks over whites -- 25 percent, which is a big number.
What did you make of that?
AVLON: That's right.
Well, and another stat in the poll said 52 percent believe that too much of an issue had been made about African-Americans' problems in the countries. Look, it reinforces some stereotypes, which is always the last thing you want.
We do have a diversity deficit in American politics when it comes to the Republican Party. It's been true since 1964, at least. And even though there are now over 30 African-American Republican candidates running for Congress, it's something that needs to be confronted. One of the things the poll also showed is that Tea Partiers are 89 percent white, more so than the American people. So, this is a major issue. At a time when the first African-American president is in office, you need to bridge these divides, not exacerbate them. And this is one of the fundamental fault lines in American politics is race. We cannot ignore it.
BROWN: And it kind of goes back to the issue or the point you were making earlier about a party with no leader, so that these things may get blown out of proportion or comments like this get made that play into stereotypes that may obscure sort of bigger, more important issues that are being talked about.
HALPERIN: Pessimism and anger never wins long-term in American politics. A leader could channel -- Perot actually was able to do this, to some extent -- channel in a more positive way.
I think the proof to some extent lies in the following question: Where was the Tea Party movement during eight years of George Bush, when Washington was getting bigger, the deficit was exploding, you know?
BROWN: So, what sparked it, when you look -- when approach it from that perspective?
HALPERIN: Well, Barack Obama has done some things that are clearly bigger government than even George Bush did. And he's a Democrat and he's an African-American. The last thing is not the leading cause of this, but there's clearly strains of that in this.
And, again, we need a country with a real debate on these issues. The deficit is too big. Tax -- the American people do feel overtaxed. There's a lot that divides Democrats and Republicans on those issues, but it can't be based on anger.
And, again, I think a leader could channel that energy, that passion, the really admirable willingness to go out and rally on something they believe in, into a more positive way, into a way that would be constructive.
AVLON: That's right.
BROWN: A fascinating talk.
John Avlon, I will let you make that point next time.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: Mark Halperin.
Good to see you both. Thanks very much, guys.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Coming up: The volcanic eruption wreaked havoc on Europe. Thousands of flights across six continents have been affected.
Also, some anxious times for thousands of American families adopting children from Russia. We have a lot more on that ahead as well.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: A rare force of nature is causing travel chaos all across Europe right now. A massive cloud of volcanic ash from Iceland has shut down airspace in eight countries. Thousands of flights have been grounded after some of Europe's busiest airports were forced to close.
Tom Foreman is over at CNN's magic wall to help us figure out what exactly is going on here.
Tom, what is going on?
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, Campbell, this is just amazing. Iceland is only about the size of Virginia, but this volcano, from the land and ice, is affecting a good portion of the world right now.
These are pictures of the eruption so you get a sense of that classic beautiful lava releasing out there, but this is what is happening now. A huge cloud of ash has taken over the airspace from about 20,000 to 35,000 feet, right where jet liners usually fly. And that cloud is drifting east and a little bit over to the south. And that is playing havoc with European air traffic.
Look at this. Closing dozens of airports out here, grounding thousands of flights because that cloud is coming from right up here and drifting all through here. Campbell?
BROWN: And I guess why it's such a danger or big threat to airplanes?
FOREMAN: That is a really excellent question. It's easy to overlook here. Here's the deal. First, this cloud can look like just any regular cloud. So it's very possible for someone to fly into it by accident, by mistake. But this stuff is nothing like a cloud. This dust is so fine it can clog up nozzles on jets, foul joints and more importantly, it can be sucked into engines where it undergoes a dangerous transformation.
Here's a model of a jet engine. Now as it takes in air here, these blades compress it. It's combined with fuel, it's ignited and it's shot out the back. That's what moves you forward. But this process is so hot when you bring up these particles of this ash, this is actually one of them, it melts in the process and becomes a type of liquid glass sludge that will gather on the backside of this engine and will start cooling on the back of the engine. And that will disable the engine and put the plane out of control. We have never lost a plane this way, but that kind of loss of control, based on volcanic dust, has happened before -- Campbell.
BROWN: That is very scary. So, finally, Tom, when do they expect it to clear up?
FOREMAN: That's a really excellent question, about when they want this all to clear up. They still have all this traffic backed up here. All of these huge clouds happening out in the sides of the volcano, the stuff rushing down the side of it.
Here's what we do know. When Mount St. Helens in the United States erupted back in 1980, it had a much bigger eruption that spread 540 million tons of ash, so much that roads, schools, hospitals, power plants, airports, all had to close all over the place. That went on for quite some time. This is smaller, but not very far away from this one is another volcano that often erupts in tandem. So they are keeping an eye on this main one and the other one. The main one in case you haven't heard it all day is called Eyjafjallajokull -- Campbell?
BROWN: I'm not going to try to repeat that. That was really interesting, though.
Tom Foreman for us tonight. Tom, thank you very much.
Coming up, a mixed signals over Russia's adoption freeze. Moscow says they have been suspended. Washington says it's just is not so. How one U.S. family is coping as they wait to welcome their new Russian daughter. This is very confusing for them. Obviously, we're going to have their story, coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Adoption freeze rumors swirled today as fallout continues over that 7-year-old Russian boy who was sent packing by his American family. According to the Russian foreign minister, adoptions to U.S. families have been suspended. But, today, the U.S. State Department said that is not so. It says adoptions are continuing. Confused?
Well, so are the families waiting to bring their new sons and daughters home to the State.
And Jill Dougherty right now has one family's story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: It's really literally a handful.
CHRISTIE ZUKOR, ADOPTIVE MOTHER: Literally, we are in zone defense in the house.
DOUGHERTY (voice-over): Three years ago, Christie Zukor and her husband, Ken, were on a waiting list to adopt two siblings from Russia. Then came the e-mail from their adoption agency, four siblings waiting for a home.
(on camera): And now you're waiting for another little girl, right?
ZUKOR: Well, she's 15.
DOUGHERTY: 15 -- oh, she's not a little girl.
ZUKOR: Yes. She's 15, and it's their big sister.
What's her name?
UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: Marina!
ZUKOR: That's right.
DOUGHERTY: This is Anatoly (ph). He likes taps.
ZUKOR: Natasha and Nadia both take gymnastics. Elia (ph) is in a jazz class.
DOUGHERTY: So she has a few problems?
ZUKOR: Yes. She has cognitive delays. She receives services from the special educator, speech pathologist, occupational therapist.
DOUGHERTY: What do you think of this woman who sent her child back to Russia?
ZUKOR: I don't think highly, honestly.
DOUGHERTY: Do you understand it at all?
ZUKOR: I understand issues that her son has. I don't understand one bit that she would put him on a plane and send him back. I mean, her story is no different than tons of kids that come out of institutions.
DOUGHERTY: Were you really prepared for all the stuff that you have to do?
ZUKOR: You're committed as if you gave birth to these kids. You know, you don't give up. That's not what they need. You do everything you can, and the resources are out there.
DOUGHERTY: What do you think about the Russians who say, you know, we ought to stop this? Children have been killed, you know, abused in the United States.
ZUKOR: Well, the stories are horrible. You can't deny it. And they have every right to be angry. But there are tons of success stories.
DOUGHERTY: Marina, they hope, would be one of them.
It doesn't sound like you're that really concern.
ZUKOR: I'm not worried. It's going to happen. And we -- it's going to happen. When things are meant to be, they're meant to be.
(END VIDEOTAPE) BROWN: And Jill Dougherty is joining me right now from Washington.
And Jill, where is this family in terms of their adoption? Where does it stand now? How confident are they that it's going to go through given what we are hearing?
DOUGHERTY: I mean you just heard, but it is confusing. And they went on the website for the U.S. embassy in Moscow to try to figure it out and they have been talking to the adoption agency, but they're getting mixed messages. You know, the State Department says basically the same policy is in place. But they're amazing. They're just going to keep going, keeping with the paperwork and presuming that this is going to work out.
BROWN: And we're expecting officials on both sides to try to figure this out so that we get some clarity here, right?
DOUGHERTY: Yes. There is a team that is going from the State Department. They're going to leave this weekend. And Monday and Tuesday they have meetings with the Russians and they are trying to resolve this.
BROWN: And just very quickly, Jill, I know you have been to some of these Russian orphanages that we are hearing so much about. Very quickly, give us a sense of what it's like.
DOUGHERTY: You know, a few years ago it was really kind of bad in many of them. I mean, some kids didn't have enough food. And right now it's more a mixed bag. I mean, some of them are actually quite nice. The ones up by St. Petersburg are really nice, a lot of them. But it's very hard to predict. And it usually depends on the individual town where they are located. What are the economics and do they have the money to take care of the kids?
BROWN: Jill Dougherty for us tonight. Jill, thanks so much. Appreciate it.
When we come back, the "M-Squared" crew -- Mary Matalin, Roland Martin will face off on the infiltrators who tried to crash the tea parties today.
Also, Dr. Jack Kevorkian has no regrets for helping all these people commit suicide. But would he do it again? Anderson Cooper sat down with the man known as "Dr. Death."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Time now for "M-Squared" featuring Mary Matalin and Roland Martin. As always, they're squaring off on the day's hottest topics. Tonight, Mary joins us from New Orleans while Roland is right here in New York.
Guys, what have you got?
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: All right, Campbell, thanks a bunch. You have been talking about the tea party folks. This is their day -- tax day. And they have some infiltrators, if you will, in their movement. Check this out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 95 percent of Americans got a tax cut today. Re-up. Re-up. That's the truth. It's the law. The law has cut your taxes! The law has cut your taxes!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's not true. You're wrong!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: you've got to love it, Mary. You've got to love it.
MARY MATALIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Democracy in action, man, democracy in action. But my favorite thing about these infiltrators, the tea party crashers, is they went online and in the organizational materials they said, we are going to pose as racists and homophobes and morons to make the tea parties look like that. They're proving, of course, that the progressive movement has more racists, homophobes and morons.
But, you know, out of all good cause, there can come some good. The former NAACP president in Portland said, I do not condone this, you cannot fake racism. Finally, somebody saying the right thing.
MARTIN: And also, look, here's my deal. The tea party folks are doing what's in the constitution. They are assembling. They are protesting. I have no issue with that. Now, the one guy who is saying, look, 95 percent of folks have gotten the tax cut, he was stating a fact. But my deal to the people who don't know the tea party, create your own rally. Have your own movement. You know, I said it today on the morning show, my commentary, to hell with them, do your own thing and turn your people out in November. Forget what they're doing.
MATALIN: Thank you, thank you, Roland. This is why I love you. Argue back on the merits. Do not demean your opponents.
MARTIN: Right, right.
MATALIN: Argue back on the merits. Speaking of merits, thank you for introducing me to the world of sports. Because there is another sports story today. I don't know anything about sports, but your interest in it is making me understand the universal applicability of these concepts.
MARTIN: Right.
MATALIN: SO, the 76ers coach Eddie Jordan gets fired after one year for an unacceptable season because the essence of sports is meritocracy. I guess, an unacceptable season means he didn't do very well.
MARTIN: Right. MATALIN: So, that's a meritorious decision, right?
MARTIN: Now, imagine if we could do this in politics. Just imagine if you were president, a senator or a member of Congress, a mayor, a governor, state legislator, you had a horrible year and the people get to say, OK, you know what, I'm sorry, that was unacceptable, you're fired after one year.
That would be a little crazy.
MATALIN: It would be crazy. It would be chaos. But it can't get any worse than it is. But we have our own firing mechanism. And you're going to see it in the fall, Roland. You're going to see a lot of firings, I think.
MARTIN: I tell you what, though. Eddie Jordan is going to get $6 million because they fired him with two years left on his contract. And so you know what? If I got $6 million left, hey, fire me, baby, just fire me.
MATALIN: I do want to ask you a sports question.
MARTIN: Yes.
MATALIN: And we'll never going to fire you. Do -- are all firings meritorious or does somebody have to take a fall? Is there something else going on here that I don't understand? I'm really trying to understand. What is it?
MARTIN: Oh, yes. You've got systems. People get fired because of, you know, they didn't get along with the players, with the management. Any number of reasons. Like they had a great year last year, they went down this year, they factor in injuries. All kinds of stuff.
But you know what? It simply boils down to personalities. In this case, they say the players didn't get along with him. And so that's why I think it would be great in politics if we do that. They didn't get along with the staff like the dude in New York. OK, you've got to go.
MATALIN: There's politics in everything.
MARTIN: There you go. Now, it's a great story, Mary, that we both love. The story out of Columbia, Missouri. The "Columbia Missouri Tribune" reported that city employees then -- one quit and one may get disciplined because they were supposed to dispose of some beer in a landfill. They got rid of some beer, but not all of it. You know what happened to the beer? It was expired beer. I'm like, it was due for a landfill, who cares what you do with the beer?
MATALIN: You know, in the church we have like priests we call "Father Whatawaste" because they're just so gorgeous and great in everything. This is a quality control policy that Bud has and what a waste, what a waste policy, because it was past its expiration. Let us be the judge of this case. They threw out 700 cases in this case and they retrieved 50 cases, 50 cases of Bud. Oh, my God, I call these guys heroes, not criminals.
MARTIN: Here's what I don't understand. You were taking it to a landfill. So I don't care. You could have passed it out like candy on the street as long as it didn't go to kids. But again, who cares? You were getting rid of it. And then you say, well, that was city property. It was going to a landfill.
MATALIN: OK. We will not pass it out on the street like candy to kids, but we would have one hell of crawfish, boy, 50 cases of Bud.
MARTIN: This would not have happen in New Orleans.
MATALIN: That is exactly right, because we -- our quality control is a little below the average standard. But we have a good time. We miss you. Can't wait for you to come back. And have a wonderful weekend, Roland. Everybody else.
MARTIN: Likewise.
MATALIN: Campbell, back to you. We want you down here, too.
MARTIN: And have a beer.
BROWN: And on that note, coming up -- the infamous Dr. Death. Jack Kevorkian reveals what it was like to help over 130 people die.
Anderson Cooper is here with a 360 preview when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Dr. Jack Kevorkian spent over eight years behind bars for helping more than 130 people commit suicide. The so-called Dr. Death is a free man now, and says he has no regrets.
Kevorkian story is being told in a new HBO movie "You Don't Know Jack," and he sat down with Anderson Cooper for a very candid conversation.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: How many people in total did you help die?
JACK KEVORKIAN, DR. DEATH: It's around 130.
COOPER: Around --
KEVORKIAN: A little more than 130.
COOPER: You're not sure of the exact number?
KEVORKIAN: Well, I was helped by a colleague, a psychiatrist who joined me near the end. The only doctor who offered to join me. In fact, the only doctor who would cooperate with me. COOPER: And the first time you did it, who was the first --
KEVORKIAN: Janet Atkins was the first.
COOPER: And that was in a van?
KEVORKIAN: In a van.
COOPER: Why in a van?
KEVORKIAN: I couldn't find a place. I tried nursing homes, churches, hospitals, clinics.
COOPER: You don't want to do it in your apartment?
KEVORKIAN: No. Because the police would raid the apartment, clean it out. And I didn't want to involve anybody else in it like the landlord.
COOPER: But, I mean, what is that like to end somebody's life in a van?
KEVORKIAN: Well, you're ending -- you're not ending the life. I didn't do it to end a life. I did it to end the suffering the patient is going through. The patient is obviously suffering. What's a doctor supposed to do -- turn his back? If he's a coward, he is.
COOPER: A lot of doctors do that.
KEVORKIAN: Well, they're cowards. Doctors are cowards. You know that. They won't take anything that's going to hurt their income or their reputation, anything -- any legal thing that is going to possibly damaging.
COOPER: I mean, do you have nightmares about it? Did you ever feel --
KEVORKIAN: No, no. I don't think a doctor should have a nightmare about any medical procedure or else he's not a doctor.
COOPER: Did you find it sad?
KEVORKIAN: Well, of course. You don't like to end a life. Look, if somebody has got a cancer of the bone, of the hip, you don't take the leg off at the joint -- hip joint because you want to do it. And say, I'm going to take that leg off. I can't wait to take that leg off. No. The leg has to come off to help save the patient's life. Unfortunately, it entails the loss of a leg.
COOPER: But a lot of people, as you know, say, look, you're playing god. That it shouldn't be --
KEVORKIAN: Well, isn't the doctor who takes a leg off playing god?
COOPER: You're saying doctors play god all the time? KEVORKIAN: Of course. Any time you interfere with the natural process, you're playing god.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And Anderson Cooper joining me right now.
Since he has been out of prison, has he been active again in this mission of trying to make assisted suicide legal?
COOPER: Well, surely not in the way he was. He was on parole for two years, not able to actually really talk much about what he did. He now goes out, does public speaking engagements, he tries to lobby for doctor-assisted suicide for the legalization of it in all the states. But certainly he's not helping anybody at this point in their life.
BROWN: Fascinating interview. Anderson Cooper.
And, of course, you can see the rest of Anderson's interview with Dr. Jack Kevorkian tonight on "AC 360," 10:00 p.m. Eastern.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starts in just a few moments.
But, first, dramatic video for you. Angry parents confront the Massachusetts school board at the center of that allegedly deadly bullying case. When we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Finally tonight, a Massachusetts school board meeting gets ugly in the wake of a young girl's suicide. It's a story that we have been following. A 15-year-old, allegedly bullied to death by her classmates, but at last night's school board meeting, there was little sympathy as parents like Luke Gelinas demanded school officials step down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Gelinas, this is not your First Amendment right. You are here as a guest of the school committee. And your First Amendment right is to go outside on the street and talk to whoever wants to talk to you. Please leave.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.
(APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes? Would you like to speak, next?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Obviously, emotions in this case running very high. We're going to stay on top of this. That's it for us tonight. "LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.
