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Campbell Brown
Disaster in the Gulf
Aired May 28, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: And hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez. Campbell is off.
This is a special 8:00 p.m. report, day 39, disaster in the Gulf. Today, the president of the United States stood on a beach in Grand Isle, Louisiana. He promised triple the number of people working on this cleanup. He told the people living along the Gulf, you will not be abandoned.
But tonight, many Americans are asking, what is really going on here? Why did BP stop pumping mud into this gushing well for more than 16 hours? Why didn't the president know? Why did the commander, Thad Allen, hold a news conference and suggest that the mud was still being pumped, if it wasn't?
BP says, look, this is all normal operating procedures. Is it really? I'm going to ask a specialist on underwater wells.
But let's talk first about why there is considerable difference between what BP says and knows and what the administration says and knows. In Louisiana today, the president said again, I'm the president and the buck stops with me.
But then how do you explain this from the admiral? This is Thad Allen. I want you to hear this, all right? He is the president's point man, remember? Yesterday, more than 13 hours, 13-and-a-half, to be specific, after the pumping had stopped, he goes on the air, and he says, not once, but several times, that, no, the mud is still being pumped. It's still going on. Listen for yourself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADMIRAL THAD ALLEN, U.S. COAST GUARD COMMANDANT: They're still pumping mud into the wellbore, and they're still monitoring the situation. I want to be perfectly clear here. They're pumping mud into the wellbore. And as long as the mud is going down, the hydrocarbons are not coming up. They're still in the process of doing that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: There you go. You hear it for yourself. Why didn't Admiral Allen know that they weren't pumping the mud? BP says, look, we're keeping the government in the loop, and we have been doing it since day one. That's what they -- in fact, here, you want to hear that one? We have got that as well. Here is CEO Tony Hayward. He was on "AMERICAN MORNING."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "AMERICAN MORNING)
TONY HAYWARD, CEO, BP GROUP: We have had all government agencies working with us in our organization from the very beginning. They have had access to everything from the very beginning.
If we have fallen short, then I apologize, but we have tried to be open and transparent about everything from the very beginning. And I'm very happy to have the government verify the material and data that is being provided.
I spent most of last night with Secretary Chu overseeing the top kill operation. I talk every day with Admiral Thad Allen about how the spill response is going on. There is, from my perspective, complete and open collaboration between BP and the federal agencies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: So, who is telling the truth here? A lot of Americans are shaking their heads.
Eric Smith spent 35 years working on the drilling and the construction industry. He is now part of the Tulane University Center that deals with energy. He is joining me by phone.
As a matter of fact, as I introduce him, hey, Lucas (ph), do me a favor. Put the shot of what it look likes 5,000 feet below the surface. All right. That's the shot, folks. You're looking at live video coming from the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico. He is going to help us through this.
As a matter of fact, let me -- Eric, let me bring you into this. I think Americans deserve to have some sense of understanding of this. And here is the very simple question. BP is now admitting, yes, we stopped for 16 hours. We didn't really tell anybody. We didn't think we needed to tell anybody. It's all part of the operating procedure.
They stopped for 16 hours. Are they ahead of the game, or do they lose some of the momentum that they gained by stopping the pumping for 16 hours?
ERIC SMITH, TULANE ENERGY INSTITUTE: Well, I think there's two things going on there. One is the -- we talked about earlier the problem of pressure.
But the other thing, it appears that they stopped in order to switch over, so that they could actually do a sort of modified junk shot halfway through the system, so that they were concerned, you remember, about the loss of mud through the top of the BOP stack. One of the ways to reduce that is to reduce the pressure. Another way is to inject these bridging materials in the top of the BOP.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But, just real quick, and I have got some guests that I want to talk to about the politics as well, because there has been a lot going on, but I can't help but wonder, it sounds like what they're saying -- and you're right. I listened carefully to that news conference, and that's exactly what they said, throwing in some of that residue.
That sounds like a change in the game plan. That's not what most of us understood the game plan to be. The game plan, we understood, was: We're going to put the mud down there. We're going try to keep it as constant as we can, and then eventually we're going to seal it with concrete. In fact, that's what Thad Allen said yesterday.
All of the sudden, they come on today and say, well, guess what? We decided to do the junk shot instead.
Isn't that the type of stuff we're talking about here, about -- in fact, let me bring -- I'm going to hold you on that. It's really more of a political question.
Let me introduce the rest of my panel for you now.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Let me tell you who I have standing by.
Just this afternoon, BP has said that everything was good, as we have just explained to you.
Our senior political analyst is David Gergen. I understand that he just -- you're there. I was wondering whether you were going to make to it the studio.
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, sir. I'm here.
SANCHEZ: Along with us is historian Doug Brinkley.
Let me ask you, David, that question. If BP suddenly decides that they're going to change the game plan, shouldn't they tell the White House? Shouldn't they change -- tell Thad Allen, so that Thad Allen can stand before a microphone, or someone, and say, it sounds like they have got a new game plan; they're now going to try a junk shot, and, by the way, this thing hasn't been going for 16 hours now?
GERGEN: Absolutely, Rick.
The eyes of the world are upon this spot 5,000 feet below the surface of the water -- of the ocean. And here we are. The government has a responsibility, as does BP, to keep us informed on a regular basis. It's the only way to instill confidence that they know what they're doing and they're being straight with us.
So, they have to tell us every step of the way. And I think the problem they have got is what we're -- what they need is a command- and-control structure, where BP is reporting and working for the government, because that's what in fact the president told us -- I'm in charge -- that means, I'm going to run it -- as opposed to what looks like a cooperative structure, where BP takes the lead. And they -- you know, they may tell us, they may not. And, by the way, we don't -- when they tell us, we're not quite sure they're telling us the full story. We have to have a command-and-control structure that gives us confidence we know what we're seeing, we know where we are. If we're informed, Americans will put up with a lot. We will be much more patient.
SANCHEZ: But we won't be if we feel like somehow we're not getting the straight skinny on this.
GERGEN: Absolutely.
SANCHEZ: Doug, let me bring you into this.
Who is the person who you think is failing to get the communication, the information out? Is this falling on -- on -- is the blame going to fall more toward the White House and the administration, or do you believe that BP really isn't giving them the information, because someone's got to be wrong here, right?
DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: It's clearly BP is not giving anybody information. They're operating with a great deal of corporate arrogance. They have from the beginning.
You know, back in 1961, when Dwight Eisenhower gave his famous farewell address, he warned about an industrial military complex. He also talked about the science being a part of that, too, but the thought of government working too closely with the company in the wrong ways. And you have had -- that's why this MMS story. Now everybody in America knows MMS, because it shows...
SANCHEZ: Minerals Management Service.
BRINKLEY: Yes. And they're supposed to be collecting these dues, and they do, $13 billion. But they're also supposed to be making sure that these oil rigs in the Gulf are environmentally safe. MMS failed.
President Obama rightfully fired the head. There is going to be a lot of investigations. But you're seeing now BP and the government trying to almost like cover for each other all the time and not square off. It's no longer the president or, like Ken Salazar said, we have got BP by the throats.
The way you can tell we don't is that the EPA requested BP not to use a type of dispersant, and BP said, we don't need to listen to the EPA.
SANCHEZ: But, David, this is a -- but here is the problem. They're really in a bit of a catch-22, aren't they, because they need each other.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: The Obama administration cannot afford to turn its back on BP, just like BP can't afford to turn its back on the Obama administration. So, it's really kind of a symbiotic relationship, isn't it?
GERGEN: Well, yes. But that -- look, it's the fundamental responsibility of the government to protect us against wars and calamities. That's why we have government.
And they just ought to come in and assert themselves. Now, I must tell you, Rick, I thought the president was better today than yesterday. I thought they were getting the optics better today than yesterday. Yesterday, in the press conference, he was wobbly, he was defensive.
Today, he seemed crisp, on top of his game. He ordered up more people to come in there. He acted I think more presidential. And BP finally started coming on CNN air tonight.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But how big of a blunder was it -- no, you're right. They had a news conference some time around 5:30 p.m. Eastern time.
GERGEN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: And I want you guys to pick this up when we come back. And I'm also going to be bringing our guest, Eric Smith, back into this conversation, because I think we want to get a better understanding of exactly what is going on down there. And he can take us through the junk shot and then the top kill as well.
But I want to know from both of you guys how big of a blunder was it for Thad Allen yesterday to give that news conference and literally say just the opposite of what we have now learned the truth was, knowing that he is the president's point man on this?
Hold your thoughts, because this is something I think that needs to be discussed and probably needs to be discussed and heard by the American people as well, so we can get a thorough understanding of it.
By the way, as we go to break, I got to tell you something else. There is also some new and disturbing allegations that are being made tonight by -- against BP. This is from an elected official who is right in the middle of this mess in Louisiana. We're just learning about this.
Did hundreds of cleanup workers show up today merely to serve as a photo-op while the president was in town? By photo-op, we mean having the right picture behind him that perhaps wasn't there yesterday? Now, I have got that Jefferson Parish councilman standing by. He is going to be joining us as well. And BP is going to be responding to his claim as well. This is important stuff. We will get on it as well.
You're watching a special edition of the 8:00 p.m., day 39, disaster in the Gulf. We will be right back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: And welcome back, everyone. I'm Rick Sanchez.
This is a special edition of the 8:00 p.m. edition here on CNN, day 39, disaster in the Gulf. And there is yet another controversy on the Gulf Coast. I alluded to this just moments ago.
We're just getting our hands on this information. This one charges BP with shipping in coastline a cleanup crew just in time for the president's visit, and then sending them away once he was gone. If nothing else, bad P.R., maybe worse.
CNN's David Mattingly confronted BP. When we learned about this, we told him. He confronted the BP chief operating officer -- you know that's Doug Suttles -- with the allegations at an afternoon news conference. Take a listen, folks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DOUG SUTTLES, COO, Global Exploration, BP: We have moved in considerably more people to fight this battle on the locations where the oil is.
You should also recognize that these individuals are working out in the heat of the sun. These are long days. They start early in the morning, and they stop in the evening. So, the fact that they were leaving the location late in the afternoon is not unusual. It's not associated with the president arriving.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Was it total coincidence, or was it a cheap public relations ploy?
Jefferson Parish Councilman Chris Roberts was the first to flag this alleged situation. And he is good enough to get in front of a camera and join us now to talk about this.
What say you, sir?
CHRIS ROBERTS, JEFFERSON PARISH, LOUISIANA, COUNCILMAN: How are you doing this evening?
SANCHEZ: I'm doing fine.
What -- what -- make your allegations. What is it that you think was a little -- a little smelly there that you saw?
ROBERTS: Sure.
Well, for the last several weeks, as you know, oil has come ashore on Grand Isle. We have had very minimal cleanup crews there, maybe, at best, about 20 people working the beach. We just find it highly coincidental that, on the day that the president arrives, that BP would move to mobilize considerable assets, when that has not been the case for several weeks now.
We have been asking for beach cleanup for quite some time. And then, all of the sudden, the cavalry arrives this morning.
SANCHEZ: But let's talk facts here. I mean, let's make sure, if we're going to make allegations like this, that we're straight on them.
ROBERTS: Sure.
SANCHEZ: OK?
You say that prior to the president's arrival that very beach where he appeared, there were, what? Quantify this for me? How many people...
ROBERTS: Approximately, I would say -- I would say, across the entire beach, about 20 people working to clean the beach up.
And let me make it clear, I'm down in Grand Isle every day.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
ROBERTS: We go. We tour it by water. We tour it by air. We go on the beach.
SANCHEZ: So...
ROBERTS: Never have we seen, since this first started, the number of people that were there today.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: So, you eyeballed this for yourself, just to be clear. Now, you say you only saw about 20 people there, generally speaking...
ROBERTS: Correct.
SANCHEZ: ... prior to the president's arrival. Today, when the president was going to be there, how many people would you say were on the beach? And it's perfectly fine to guesstimate.
ROBERTS: About 300 to 400. And they -- 300 to 400.
SANCHEZ: Three hundred to 400?
ROBERTS: And they were approached by some of -- correct. They were approached by our emergency management staff. They had been schooled not to speak to anyone, not to explain why they were there.
They were asked what their purpose was, who had hired them. They said: I'm sorry. We were told we cannot speak to anyone. However, some of them did talk. And I confirmed this afternoon with our emergency management chief that one of the individuals said that they were hired yesterday and told to come to a staging area this morning for 7:30 a.m.
So, I just think...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Well, hold on. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say maybe it was just a coincidence and they needed to be there on this day. So, let's assume that, as soon as the president left, they stayed and they continued diligently working. Is that the case?
ROBERTS: Well, and that would be the -- that would be the question at hand, because, as soon as the flyover finished, and as soon as the opportunity would have been to show the federal government that BP was well -- had their assets on Grand Isle prepared to clean up and do what they needed to do, they were gone.
SANCHEZ: Oh.
ROBERTS: And people witnessed them at 7:30 this morning at one of the marinas down in Grand Isle being handed colored T-shirts and white pants, along with shovels and rakes...
SANCHEZ: We got it. We...
ROBERTS: ... and basically being positioned on the beach.
SANCHEZ: We got it. I will tell you, we thank you for sharing this story with us here. And I will tell you, it doesn't bode well.
I want to bring in...
(CROSSTALK)
ROBERTS: No, it doesn't. And we have heard their reply.
SANCHEZ: Well, thank you, sir, for joining us. We certainly appreciate it.
ROBERTS: Sure.
SANCHEZ: Let me bring -- let me bring in -- let me bring in two guys who know a little bit about politics and how it works.
Is this a normal kind of thing, Professor and David Gergen? Are these the kind of things you do?
David, why don't you start us off. What do you make -- what do you make of this?
GERGEN: Well, if it's true, it's extraordinarily clunk-headed, and it's self-defeating, because it wasn't going to take long for this story to get out. And it just once again erodes confidence in BP.
But let's be very clear. We were told yesterday that the government is in charge. The government has now taken responsibility for making sure BP doesn't lie to us, doesn't mislead us, doesn't set up fake photo opportunities, doesn't do all this other Mickey Mouse stuff that has led us to sort of think, you know, is anybody taking -- are these BP people for -- serious or not? SANCHEZ: Yes.
GERGEN: I think it is time for the president to call in the leadership of the BP and tell them, look, you either get this right and get this done -- and we know you're going to make mistakes along the way, but you either get it done and play fair and play straight with the American people, or, when this is over, we're going bring you down.
(CROSSTALK)
GERGEN: We can file suits. We can bring you down.
SANCHEZ: You can't pull stuff like this, David, and expect -- you know, Doug, I'm somewhat flabbergasted by the allegations that are raised here, because, if true, it's almost like they're playing a game with reporters who are serious-minded and are trying to find out what is really going on here. That kind of cheap P.R. ploy, that doesn't fly, right?
BRINKLEY: Well, but this is all BP has been doing. What they're worried about is the end of the stock bell today. You know, this is a company that is hemorrhaging right now.
We have a -- read the "Wall Street Journal" stories -- they have been fantastic -- about what -- BP has been lying consistently since the explosion. Remember when they went to Capitol Hill, try to blame everybody else but themselves?
SANCHEZ: We do. We do.
Doug, I'm going have to stop you real quick. I'm going to try and get a break in. Look, we're not stopping. The whole show is dedicated to this tonight. So, we're going to continue the conversation. We certainly get your point.
By the way, more with you guys. And, also, we need to get back to our expert, Eric Smith. I want to know, Americans want to know what is really going on 5,000 feet below the surface. We have got conflicting stories today from some of the BP officials. So, we're going to get on that.
Also, some brand-new images are coming in, new views of the top kill operation. You know, it's interesting. We had seen it from the ground. What does it look like from above? We're going to take you to both. In fact, we're going to split the screen and show you what is going on from both sides. This is cool stuff.
We're going to be right back. I'm Rick Sanchez, and this is a special edition of the 8:00 p.m., day 39, disaster in the Gulf.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Let me bring in a guy now who has probably had as many complaints and been as vocal as anyone else as far as the cleanup is concerned. Joining us is Plaquemines Parish President Billy Nungesser once again.
Mr. President, good to see you, sir. I can't help but think that...
BILLY NUNGESSER, PRESIDENT, PLAQUEMINES PARISH, LOUISIANA: How are you?
SANCHEZ: ... this has been -- and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I can't help but think that, given the conversation that we have been having just in the first 23 minutes of this newscast, that this has probably been kind of a frustrating day for you, sir.
NUNGESSER: Well, it started out that way, but we had a pretty good meeting with the president. And our-number one concern of getting these barrier islands started, they committed to one section. And he has put a time limit on three -- three days, and we will hopefully get the rest of those sections that have been permitted started. And he will...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Let me bring the viewers up to what you're talking about, because some people may not know what...
NUNGESSER: OK.
SANCHEZ: You're pick -- we're picking the conversation up in the middle.
NUNGESSER: OK.
SANCHEZ: You have been proposing that we create a series of barrier islands that would essentially be a -- well, just that, a barrier to shelter some of the other islands, some of the marshes that we want to protect.
NUNGESSER: Right.
SANCHEZ: And -- and you have been getting pretty much ignored on this. You say today finally the president said, you know what, it's a good idea, and we're going to see if we can do it?
What -- what did he say about timing and cost...
NUNGESSER: Well...
SANCHEZ: ... and who is going to do it?
NUNGESSER: Well, three -- well, three days is the limit he put on it. And he committed to that. And we will see in three days.
And we have got to do it. It's the only way we're going to keep the oil out the marsh. If we don't have a beach to go out and pick it up on, as you saw from the pictures, we will never clean it up out the marsh. So, I'm -- I'm -- you know what? When we met with him the first time, the jack-up boats hit the water. He committed to that, and that happened.
I'm feeling optimistic and encouraged. And he told me, if things don't go right in the chain of command, he will shake some things up. People are out there cleaning up the oil. He told me to call him at the White House if things don't work through the chain of command.
SANCHEZ: All right. All right.
NUNGESSER: So, we're optimistic it's going to happen.
SANCHEZ: Listen, it's -- it's good to know, sir. And we certainly are going to be following that development in the story as well, because a lot of experts do believe that those barrier islands would work.
NUNGESSER: Absolutely.
SANCHEZ: And, of course, there are some detractors who say, you know, it may not actually be able to get the job done. We're going stay on it and ask questions on both sides.
Mr. Nungesser, thank you, sir, for taking time to join us tonight.
All right, coming up...
NUNGESSER: Thank you for your time and interest.
SANCHEZ: No, we -- we -- we're staying on this. We're committed.
Coming up: a lot more on this oil disaster still ahead. Also, the White House today is -- this is interesting -- the White House is now fessing up to a backroom deal that involved a former president of the United States in the Pennsylvania -- Pennsylvania primary with Joe Sestak.
Why did Obama's -- the president's chief of staff, why did he play politics? And did he -- did he do it without the president knowing? Is it true that he just went and cut this deal involving another former president of the United States without telling the present president of the United States? We're going to have this for you.
Stay right there. We will come right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Today, the controversy surrounding Congressman Joe Sestak and how the White House may have tried to push him out of the Pennsylvania Senate race, well, it hit a fever pitch. The Obama administration today admitted that it offered Pennsylvania Congressman Joe Sestak a job to drop his primary challenge against Senator Arlen Specter -- the go-between, former President Bill Clinton.
This is information that came from the White House this morning. Sestak says he refused the position. And then he later defeated Specter in the primary, as I'm sure most of you know.
While I was on the air interviewing the congressman who is calling for an FBI investigation of the Sestak affair just a few hours ago, Sestak suddenly appeared. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JOE SESTAK (D), PENNSYLVANIA: I called last summer, and during the conversation, he talked about how tough this Democratic primary might be if I got in. There was nothing wrong that was done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right. He continued along that vein. And then as soon as he was done, as soon as Sestak was done, Congressman Darrell Issa completed his interview with me, and he says this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DARRELL ISSA (R), CALIFORNIA: We now question the president's continued claim that this is going to be a more ethical administration. We called for an FBI investigation because we would like it to look at as to who did what wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Here we go. Joining us, what a crazy day. Joining us from New Orleans Democratic strategist and CNN contributor James Carville. And here in New York, New America Foundation fellow and "Daily Beast" contributor Reihan Salam. My thanks to both of you, gentlemen, for being with us.
James, I 'm going to start with you. I want to show you something, OK. This is an interview that I did with Sestak. This is the interview, by the way, that got Darrell Issa all wound up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: I just asked you a very direct question. Give me a direct answer. Did the president, did the White House offer you the secretary of the Navy gig?
REP. JOE SESTAK (D), PENNSYLVANIA: And the answer is I said I was offered something. I don't have to go beyond that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: What do you make of that? And again, James, does Issa have a point here in pressing for an investigation? JAMES CARVILLE, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: You know, I don't know if he has a point. But if you look at what's happened here in the gulf, why you have a multinational corporation killing 11 people and destroying the lives of I don't know how many hundreds of thousands of people, I would urge Congress and Issa to get a life or get his priorities in order.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
CARVILLE: This doesn't seem like very much of a scandal to me.
SANCHEZ: Right. Let me bring you into this. Look, essentially what the White House is saying here is this kind of stuff happens all the time. They say there have been numerous reported instances in the past. This is from the report this morning when prior administrations both Democratic and Republican are motivated by the same goals, discuss alternative paths to service for qualified individuals. Such discussions, they go on to say, are fully consistent and relevant with law and ethical requirements. They say this happens all the time in business and in politics. Are they right?
REIHAN SALAM, FELLOW, NEW AMERICA FOUNDATION: They're absolutely right that it happens all the time, but they are being hoist by their own petard as it where because they made the claim that they were going to be an unusually ethical administration. They weren't going to play this traditional old style of politics. And guess what, they do. And a lot of us more cynical types have always believed that they do, but that's the thing. I mean, you know, I think that there are lies.
I actually agree with James Carville. I think that, you know, this sounds a little -- you let's be serious. Is this a crime to say that --
SANCHEZ: He says it -- he says it may be. He wants an FBI investigation.
SALAM: That sounds a little silly to me. I mean, the statutes are worded in very vague ways. They say that, you know, you can't affect a primary nomination. That's so strange because every politician is always affecting every nomination battle. If you're a president, you want your team to win and so you kind of try to jigger things so that it happens that way. That's perfectly fine and that's par for the course. I don't think it's illegal. But here's the thing. The president has always said I'm engaging in a different kind of politics, the new kind of politics and more ethical than thou.
SANCHEZ: But wait, wait, wait. Wait, wait, wait.
SALAM: Yes.
SANCHEZ: We at CNN called the White House today and they say all this happened without the president's knowledge. He had nothing to do with any of this.
SALAM: Wow. So he's really throwing folks under the bus, isn't he? I mean, I think that find it perhaps that's true his innocent claim to events.
SANCHEZ: Well, let me ask James. You know some of these guys. Would Rahm Emanuel call the former president of the United States and have him call a meeting with Sestak, Congressman Joe Sestak, and do this without ever telling the president that he was doing this?
CARVILLE: Yes, I love Rahm. He's one of my best friends in the world. Yes, it sounds just like him.
SANCHEZ: He would do that?
CARVILLE: What can I say? I mean, yes, he would, yes. I would be shocked if it didn't happen. And I 'm kind of proud of him for doing it. I probably would have done the same thing myself.
SALAM: This is not making President Obama look so hot.
CARVILLE: Yes.
SALAM: -- if I may.
CARVILLE: Right. Well, maybe it isn't. And yes, you make a good point and you ought to say look, they promised one thing and they end up doing this. That's a fair point. But I mean, are we going to stop the country and have a criminal investigation? No. It's newsworthy. And yes, that's it. That does sound quite like him. I don't know if he did it.
SALAM: I got to say the big story of this week is actually the fact that you've got folks like James Carville criticizing this administration. You've got Democrats finally feeling like they can be critical of the president. That's a big deal. Because when President Bush started losing some of these folks on the right, that's when things started going straight to hell in my opinion.
SANCHEZ: I know, I think you're right. By the way, you guys are both political insiders. Again, this is not uncommon in politics. You admit to that? You cop to that?
SALAM: Of course, yes.
SANCHEZ: That people do these kind of deals all the time.
SALAM: Absolutely. Now, does it happen in exactly this way? Do you bring president -- former President Clinton into the mix?
SANCHEZ: Yes.
SALAM: I mean, you know, this clearly was happening at a very high stakes, high level way. But does it happen? Of course it does.
SANCHEZ: My thanks to both of you gentlemen for being with us. And, James, you're doing a heck of a job down there being an advocate for your fellow Louisianans. Keep up the good work as they say.
CARVILLE: All right. SANCHEZ: Take care.
CARVILLE: How about -- thank you, you bet. Appreciate it. Bye- bye.
SANCHEZ: Thanks.
And here's what we've got coming up. The very latest on "top kill." Another day and another delay. More confusion. Where did those 16 hours go? And what really happened during those 16 hours, and why didn't they tell the American people vis-a-vis the administration? We're going to be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Think about this if you're a parent. Is one of the problems with American kids today that they're babied, that they tend to get overweight, that their parents cajole them, never let them out of their sight? Is it time that we start saying to our kids go, learn about the world on your own? It's kind of crazy. Some people say no, you can't do that today. It's too dangerous.
We're going to have that conversation in just a little bit. But first, Joe Johns. He has a look at some of the other stories that we're following tonight. And he's looking very dapper by the way. Joe, what you got?
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: I took your cue of course, Rick. You bet. Friday night, right? Holiday.
SANCHEZ: Exactly.
JOHNS: All right. President Obama today promised to triple the manpower working to protect coastal areas hit by BP's giant oil spill. After touring the area today, the president told gulf residents his administration is on their side and is going to help them see the crisis through. Meantime, a local Louisiana leader charges BP bussed in extra cleanup workers just for today's visit.
You may remember him as the kid with the sparkling eyes and the smart mouth. Gary Coleman, the child star of the hit '70s and '80s sitcom "Different Strokes" has died. Throughout his life, Coleman battled a kidney disease that stunted his growth. Coleman's adult life was filled with personal calamities and controversies. The doctors say the actor died after suffering a brain hemorrhage. He was 42 years old.
Finally, remember that animated movie called "Up"? An elderly guy attaches colorful balloons to his house and just floats away for an adventure. Well, look at this. Instead of swimming across the English Channel, everybody has done that, right? American stuntman Jonathan Trapp did the next best thing. He straps himself into a seat tied to a bunch of helium balloon and glides across the channel. Trapp says this was a life-long dream for him. And I would imagine he actually talked to air traffic control about that one because that's the kind of thing that could get fighter jets scrambling these days. SANCHEZ: Yes, yes. It was Sinatra, right. Fly me to the moon.
JOHNS: To the moon.
SANCHEZ: By the way, my mother just called and she said we both have to put our ties back on.
JOHNS: Yes, I know. There are people -- some people just don't like it.
SANCHEZ: It's just the way it is. But you know, it's Tyler's Friday. It feels great just the way it is.
Thanks, Joe. Good to see you.
Coming up, cliff-hanger in the gulf. When will we finally know when the efforts to plug the leak are working, and what are those efforts now that we learned that it was stopped for 16 hours despite the fact that BP says oh, no, that's just normal operating procedure. Was it really?
Now, how long is it going to last? That's what we're asking. We'll be right back. Stay with us. This is a special edition of the 8:00 p.m. I'm Rick Sanchez. Day 39 disaster in the gulf is what we're calling it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right. Before we do anything else, we just noticed something about these pictures. Call me a dork, but I've been staring at these things now for the last 48 hours or so, and I notice that there's a change. Put that up if you could there, Lucas.
Look at this. Remember every time we've shown you this eight box over the last couple of days, the very first one, top row, left, very first one has always been an image of the spewing well? It doesn't seem like we're seeing that there. I'm not quite sure what's going on. I don't have the answer, just a question.
So let me bring in Eric Smith again. He's at Tulane University and he's been looking into this for us. But what could that be? I know you look at this. Are you surprised as I am that --
ERIC SMITH, TULANE ENERGY CENTER (via telephone): Well, I think, you know, that could be good news. I'm not going to make any suppositions. But it seems like certainly the flow rates are down, and it -- you know, whatever they're focused on is not showing a lot of mud or oil at the moment.
SANCHEZ: Some people would look at that and wonder is it possible that they could have actually capped it? But to cap it we were told they need to do the concrete.
SMITH: No, no. I think you would see right now is that if this junk shot version that they added late in the game --
SANCHEZ: Right.
SMITH: -- is working, then the mud coming out of the two leaking sites would be far less than you were seeing previously.
SANCHEZ: So it wouldn't be -- because we can't see a shot here where we even see some. Can we go into that second one there? Is that the one, by the way? I don't know if we can. I don't know if we've got people.
There you go. Perfect. They're listening to us over there where they're taking this feed in. Take a look at that. What does that tell you?
SMITH: I don't have a clue what that is. I wish I could tell you. But I think what you're seeing are bits and pieces of the material that they would have injected in to try and act as bridging material. And it's simply that's sort of the flotsam and jetsam coming out, floating around in the water.
SANCHEZ: And the bridging material is just a little more dense than the mud itself. It's the second stuff before they go to the cement.
SMITH: Right. They've got larger pieces.
SANCHEZ: Right.
SMITH: They're larger pieces.
SANCHEZ: But it's not -- but it's not as a hold it doesn't have the same hold as the cement that eventually they want to use as well?
SMITH: That's right. I think I had a couple of things I wanted to mention about --
SANCHEZ: Can you hold them? Can you hold them? I might need to bring them back. We're told Larry King is standing by.
SMITH: All right.
SANCHEZ: And you know Larry. He gets ornery if I have him wait too long. So I'm going to go to him right now. Look at him. He was looking ornery already. Larry, what are you doing? What do you have for us tonight?
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": What ornery? I don't feel ornery.
SANCHEZ: I'm sorry. You know I love you, man. Like kids.
KING: We're two minorities here. We can't afford to be ornery.
SANCHEZ: Exactly. So --
KING: It's "American Idol" night here, Rick. I know you're excited. For the first time since the finale, Rick, get this, I know you hate to get someone get a word in. We're bringing together all the top ten finalists in one place to talk about the secrets of the past season. Want to know what went on backstage, what they really thought of Simon? Stay tuned for a treat, Rick.
"American Idol" finalists right here.
SANCHEZ: You got my wife hooked. I know that. I love that. Thanks, Larry. Good to see you.
KING: Thanks, Rick.
SANCHEZ: I love you like a brother.
KING: Continue, Rick.
SANCHEZ: We'll be right back.
KING: Bye.
SANCHEZ: And the very latest out of the gulf when we come back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: This is the story I promised you that I think you're going to find interesting, especially if you're parents or grandparents or kids. Would you ever let your 9-year-old go to the park alone to play? Just say go, get out of the house, go to the park.
My next guest says yes, do it. In fact, she started a movement to get parents to stop being so protective. You may remember her, Lenore --
LENORE SKENAZY, AUTHOR, "FREE-RANGE KIDS": Skenazy.
SANCHEZ: Skenazy -- as the mom who let her 9-year-old son ride the New York City subway a few years back, all alone. She put him on a subway in New York City and said go. Be gone. She's the author of "Free-Range Kids: How to Raise Safe, Self-reliant children Without Going Nuts with Worry." And she's here to talk to us about this.
OK. First question.
SKENAZY: Yes.
SANCHEZ: When you say --
SKENAZY: Yes.
SANCHEZ: -- take our children to the park and just leave them there.
SKENAZY: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Some people would say that sounds crazy. SKENAZY: Actually, quite a few people said it was crazy. And then quite a few people actually did it. My whole idea for that day is that I have kids. I know you have kids.
SANCHEZ: Right.
SKENAZY: Many times it's a beautiful day outside, and I say go outside and play. It's 80 degrees.
SANCHEZ: Oh, absolutely.
SKENAZY: And you know what?
SANCHEZ: And they're playing video games.
SKENAZY: Yes, and they look outside and they say no one's there. And then they come back, and it's back to the computer. And so I wanted to come up with how do we get kids outside trying to remember even how to come up with a game, how to make a team, how to, you know, decide what the goal is.
SANCHEZ: But --
SKENAZY: And we need kids outside. So it was a day to get them outside.
SANCHEZ: Let me just stop you just for a moment.
SKENAZY: Got me. Yes, yes, yes.
SANCHEZ: As a parent and I know there are other parents who are listening to us right now who would say wait a minute.
SKENAZY: Sure.
SANCHEZ: You can't just let a kid go by himself, unsupervised. You know, it can be a little dangerous out there. Maybe perhaps more dangerous today than yesterday when we were growing up.
SKENAZY: Actually, it was more dangerous when we were growing up than today. And that's something that a lot of people don't realize, that the crime rate in the '70s and '80s was higher than it is now. And so the people who say like, oh, I had such a good time. I remember riding my bike --
SANCHEZ: OK.
SKENAZY: -- around the neighborhood or staying out until the streetlights came on, but I can't let my kids do that. I say why not? Our parents let us go out and they weren't crazy, irresponsible parents, throwing us to the dogs. They were sending us out in a less safe time. And what happen did we get from it? We got fit, we had friends. We knew that we could go outside and something exciting and fun was going to go on.
SANCHEZ: And we had problem solving. SKENAZY: Oh, we learned problem solving the whole --
SANCHEZ: On our own without having mom or dad doing it.
SKENAZY: Well, that's one of the reasons I was also suggesting that a little unsupervised time with children playing with each other as opposed to in a team, on a league or with their parents is good.
SANCHEZ: Unsupervised.
SKENAZY: One of the things you get when you play with other kids is something called self-regulation. If you say I want another turn and they say no, wait your turn, that is one of the best ways to grow up and be mature.
SANCHEZ: Let me tell you what you're not taking into account.
SKENAZY: Tell me.
SANCHEZ: You're ready?
SKENAZY: I think I'm ready. Maybe not.
SANCHEZ: There used to be a structure when we were growing up. I would go to the park and there'd be a recreation director.
SKENAZY: Oh, that's --
SANCHEZ: There would be people in the parks, adults who actually ran parks. Do you know that what cities in the United States do today? You know what mayors do to get elected?
SKENAZY: Tell me.
SANCHEZ: I promise you 100,000 police officers. Every tax penny (ph) I collect, I'm putting into it police officers. And instead of taking those police officers and putting them in parks --
SKENAZY: Wouldn't that be great?
SANCHEZ: -- and taking their gun away and maybe give them a badge --
SKENAZY: That's a brilliant idea. That's a brilliant idea.
SANCHEZ: -- and giving them a whistle and saying, you know what, 3:00 every day you work with these kids. You go to most parks today in the United States, they're empty.
SKENAZY: They're empty. And that was really one of the points behind getting our kids back out again was that one of the ways you create community is by having kids out on the street.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
SKENAZY: And then the mothers of the younger kids are sitting there on the park benches, the mothers meet each other. They go off and have coffee. They play together in a way, and the kids meet each other. But if everybody is off the streets. I love the idea --
SANCHEZ: We need some kind of -- I was --
SKENAZY: People out on the street like that. That's great.
SANCHEZ: I was lucky enough to grow up in a place called Hialeah, Florida.
SKENAZY: Yes.
SANCHEZ: There's a park every mile from where you go, and there's at least a nine -- sometimes as many as nine people who are paid by the city just like they pay police officers and firemen to work with children, because they're our future. Most cities don't do it.
SKENAZY: I'm sorry, I think that's a brilliant idea.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
SKENAZY: You know, you've actually come up with a solution because I have been talking about this all week. And one of the things people are so worried about is the supervision. But why not use some of the police officers as recess guys.
SANCHEZ: Exactly. Look at Hialeah, it's a great model.
SKENAZY: OK.
SANCHEZ: Maybe one of the best in the country.
SKENAZY: Very cool.
SANCHEZ: Great conversation. I'm glad you were here.
SKENAZY: Thank you, Rick.
SANCHEZ: I wanted to do this.
SKENAZY: OK. I want to do that. Vote for him.
SANCHEZ: Whatever that means. Boy, it must be Friday night.
"LARRY KING LIVE" is going to start in just a couple of minutes. We call it Tyler's Friday. But up next, Memorial Day weekend.
SKENAZY: Whoa.
SANCHEZ: This is not about backyard barbecues, in many ways, although there's nothing wrong with that, or just hitting the beach. This is about in many ways the things that we all have to remember, the sacrifice. Actually remembering the meaning of this holiday. It's something we'll help you do, tonight. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: And welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. Every Friday, we like to select some folks who stand out from the week's events, people with the right stuff to make our world just a little bit better. While you think about that long lazy Memorial Day weekend ahead, take some time to consider why you have that extra day off. It's because of the people you're about to see.
This week we focus on talented group of combat veterans who have come together for a new mission, to pay tribute to service members and their families to honor their sacrifices. They have a new CD out. It's called "4 Troops." A proportion of the proceeds of the veterans organization including the Intrepid Fallen Heroes Fund. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh say can you see --
SGT. DAVID CLEMO, U.S. ARMY: My name is David Clemo, former sergeant of the U.S. Army, part of the "4 Troops" music singing group. There's very few things in life that can really move you, and music is one of those things.
"4 TROOPS" SINGING: Every long lost dream led me to where you are. Others that broke my heart, they were like northern stars.
CLEMO: Music has the ability to take you some place else of whatever element you're in. And since we're in such a high stress environment when you are deployed, music really served as the outlet.
CAPT. MEREDITH MELCHER, U.S. ARMY: Hi, I'm Meredith Melcher, a former Army captain who served in the first Operation Iraqi Freedom back in 2003.
MELCHER: For me it's sort of been an emotional outlet. Something that I can do depending on whatever mood I'm in or how I'm feeling. And I can just sing. It perks me up.
"4 TROOPS" SINGING: Now this nation I love has fallen under attack. Oh, my, (INAUDIBLE) from somewhere in the back. It took a while to see clearly through our big black eye. Now we remember why we fight so that freedom never dies.
SGT. DANIEL JENS, U.S. ARMY: So many of our songs speak directly to military families or mothers that have a son or daughter that's deployed. You just look out into the audience and you know, 90 percent of them have tears in their eyes.
When I am down and oh my soul is so weary. When troubles come and my heart burdened be.
You feel it radiating from us, and you feel it coming back from them. It's -- it's something that's beyond words.
Until you come and sit a while with me. STAFF SGT. RON HENRY (RET.), U.S. ARMY: It's our job to open up their eyes to see our hearts and see our spirits and see what we've been through. And not only representing what we've been through, but to be ambassadors for all of the other Armed Services members and their families.
My name is Ron D. Henry. I'm from Williamsburg, Virginia. I'm a retired staff sergeant with over 20 years of active duty service.
(APPLAUSE)
You're a grand old flag. You're a high-flying flag, and forever in peace may you wave. You're the emblem of the land we love, the home of the free and the brave.
I've always learned that, you know, what you went through is really not for you. It's for you to help somebody else through your experiences.
"4 TROOPS' SINGING: Should old acquaintance be forget.
HENRY: Keep your eye on the grand old flag. Grand old flag, yes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: They're good, aren't they? Have a great Memorial Day, everyone. I'm Rick Sanchez. We'll be looking for you again.
In the meantime, here now is the loquacious one. Here is Larry King. Take it away, Larry.
