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CNN Novak, Hunt & Shields

Harry Reid Discusses the Politics of the Democrat-Controlled Senate

Aired June 09, 2001 - 17:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MARK SHIELDS, CO-HOST: I'm Mark Shields. Robert Novak and I will question the No. 2 Democrat in the now Democratic-controlled U.S. Senate.

ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: He is Senate Majority Whip Harry Reid of Nevada.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NOVAK (voice-over): Party control of the Senate shifted this week for the first time ever during the course of a session.

SEN. THOMAS DASCHLE (D-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: I believe I have the moral authority as any majority leader would have with a 51-49 margin and I look forward to working with Senator Lott all the way through on all the issues.

SEN. TRENT LOTT (R-MS), MINORITY LEADER: A number of Democrats came right out last week and basically said, "Well, this is the end of national missile defense; this is the end of, you know, an opportunity to have additional oil supply in the ANWR of Alaska." But worst of all, that "this was the end to conservative judges and we're going to have a litmus test."

NOVAK: Senator Trent Lott might still be majority leader were it not for Harry Reid. He gave up his top Democratic slot on the Environment and Public Works Committee so that Senator James Jeffords of Vermont could still be a committee chairman if he left the Republican Party.

Elected to the Nevada legislature in 1968, Senator Reid later served as lieutenant governor of Nevada and chairman of the Nevada Gaming Commission. He was first elected to Congress in 1982. After four years in the House, he was elected to the Senate in 1986. He was elected to a third term in 1998 by only 428 votes, but returning to Washington was chosen by his Democratic colleagues as assistant party leader, or whip.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOVAK: Senator Reid, there seems to be some different versions of the conversion of James Jeffords from the Republican side of the aisle to voting in the Democratic Caucus. Are you saying, Senator, that he made this as a leap of faith -- as you say, as an evolutionary process rather than a deal? There was no promise that he would be given your slot on the Environment Committee? And the fact that he became a committee chairman after he decided was just a bonus for him?

SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), SENATE MAJORITY WHIP: Well, you know, it's interesting. I talked to Jim Jeffords this week, and I said, "You know, I just finished an interview with Mary McGrory and she asked me where we held all of our meetings." I said, "Except for one, we held it right here, didn't we, Jim?"

You know, we met on the Senate floor, once in a while as he passed going to the bathroom. But these long meetings of ours weren't very long -- short conversations on the Senate floor, and we had one long meeting in his office.

If he were looking for a good deal, he should have stayed as a Republican as far as goodies. They offered a line to become part of the leadership. They allowed to have him -- they would waive the term limit rule they had and allow him to stay on as chairman of the committee. And he had all kinds of things, as I've said. He had the kitchen sink and everything filled up in it.

All my conversations with Jim Jeffords were very above-board. We talked about the problems he was having in the party. I indicated to him that I'd like to have him on the committee, and, of course, I have a lot to do. And there came a time during the very end of the conversation that we would talk to him about the chairmanship of the committee. But that deal was not made until Friday -- the Thursday after he announced his change.

NOVAK: But surely -- the rumor was all over the Hill, Senator Reid: Surely he knew that he was going to get that chairmanship, even if he didn't have it written in your blood.

REID: Bob, I have no doubt that he knew that he could get that if he wanted it, but it was not a quid pro quo. If he were looking for some goodies, he should have stayed where he was.

NOVAK: Senator Reid, actually on the tax bill, which he voted for, there were more Democratic defections than Republican defections. And I wonder, since you're the No. 2 person in the leadership, when you see that your new chairman of the Finance Committee, Max Baucus, standing by President Bush's side at the signing ceremony the other day, just exulting in a bill that you and Senator Daschle have said is a terrible bill, does that give you a little heartburn? Are you upset with Max Baucus?

REID: Bob, Senator Daschle and I have made the decision we're going to look forward, not back. I have served with Max Baucus ever since I've been back here. He is a good man. He is going to be a great chairman of the Finance Committee. He did what he did as a result of what he thought was the best thing for the state of Montana and the country.

Now, I may disagree with him, but I think generally speaking Max Baucus and I agree on 95 percent of the things he has done and will do. So I'm not concerned at all about his having joined with Grassley.

I think the picture of the president with Max Baucus is a picture we need to magnify. We need more pictures like that, and we're going to have them. We're going to have more bipartisan legislation.

SHIELDS: Speaking of other pictures, Senator Reid, your conversion skills have been established in bringing over Senator Jeffords. What about John McCain? Are there overtures being made and conversations being held? Do you think that John McCain will move to independent status?

REID: If any of the three of us said we thought John McCain was going to do this or that, on Monday no one would be right. No one knows from day to day what John McCain's going to do. John McCain is a certified independent. He is going to do what he thinks is the right thing to do.

John McCain and I -- he and I came to Washington together in 1982, and he's one step ahead of me in seniority because Arizona has more people in it than Nevada. He and I literally have been side by side since we came here.

But I know John McCain, and John McCain is somebody that I don't know.

(LAUGHTER)

SHIELDS: That's a good answer.

Senator Reid, your leader and your friend Tom Daschle had this to say about Yucca Mountain, the potential repository for nuclear waste in Nevada. I'll put it up on the board. It says, "I think the Yucca Mountain issue is dead. As long as we're in the majority, it's dead." He said that on the 1st of June, 2001.

Do you agree with that? I mean, is there no possibility of any nuclear waste finding its way into the state of Nevada?

REID: That statement created so much controversy, some of the great journalists in America wrote about it.

SHIELDS: And some others, too.

(LAUGHTER)

REID: Interestingly enough, Frank Murkowski this week has said that he doubts very seriously if Yucca Mountain will be a place where they're going to store nuclear waste.

SHIELDS: But he's in the minority. You're in the majority.

REID: Well, but he has been an advocate for nuclear waste as long as I've been back here. And I think the situation we have is right now Yucca Mountain has cost about $8 billion. The price tag on Yucca Mountain is $58 billion. And I think that is without any consideration given to the transportation aspects of it. Tom Daschle is a realist. Frank Murkowski is a realist. Pete Domenici, who serves on the Subcommittee on Energy and Water with me -- we provide the money for Yucca Mountain and other things nuclear in this country -- he said to me that he thinks that the standards issued by Governor Whitman this week also indicate that it's going to be extremely difficult, if not impossible, at NRC to certify it.

REID: So, in short, what should we do with it? Leave it where it is? Dry cast storage containment? Or as Pete Domenici wants to, start looking at transportation. Daschle and Murkowski are right.

SHIELDS: But doesn't this effectively say, "This is the end of the growth of the nuclear industry in this country during an energy crisis"?

REID: Quite to the contrary, Bob. I think if we decide to do something about -- Bob. Pardon me, Mark.

If we decide to do something with producing nuclear power, solve the problem with nuclear waste and we can get on board right away.

NOVAK: Senator Reid, the last I saw there was over 60 votes in the Senate, certainly over 50 votes, that's in favor of a Yucca Mountain repository. So when you say, and Senator Daschle says, that there's not going to be a bill, are you saying that you are going to use all the parliamentary wiles you can, the filibuster and other things, to keep it from coming to an up-and-down vote on the floor? And is this going to be true of the other things that Senator Lott was talking about, like national missile defense. Are you going to keep the things you don't like from coming to an up-and-down vote on the floor?

REID: Bob, one of the interesting things about nuclear waste, it doesn't take new legislation. Nothing has to be done. Yucca Mountain is already on legislation has been passed. It was passed in 1982. The problem is that the scientific community is beginning to turn their nose up. The money going in there is going into a big cesspool. It's like dumping money into nowhere. And people are beginning to realize that if you haven't even addressed transportation, Yucca Mountain is not possible.

SHIELDS: Senator Reid, we learned that in spite of the new tone in Washington proclaimed by the Bush administration, that Senator Daschle, prior to becoming majority leader, had not had a conversation with the president since March. When was the last time, prior to your becoming majority whip -- or have you had one since you became majority whip with President George W. Bush?

REID: I've had one meeting with the president. It was an enjoyable meeting. He's a very, very pleasant man.

SHIELDS: When was that meeting?

REID: Well, it was a couple of months ago.

But I think that he's learned that now he's going to have to be doing something other than talking about bipartisanship; he's going to have to do it. He's had experience in Texas doing it. I don't think there's a reason that hasn't, except his staff has been giving him some terribly bad advice.

SHIELDS: OK.

We have to take a break. When we come back, we'll ask Senator Harry Reid if President Bush is trying to steal the Democrat's thunder on health care issues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NOVAK: Senate Majority Whip Harry Reid, I'm going to ask you a straight question, and I'd love to get a straight answer out of you.

Is there a litmus test on federal judges appointed by President Bush on whether or not they're pro-choice or pro-life? That if they are pro-life that they are anti-abortion, they are going to be eliminated.

REID: I don't think we should have litmus tests for members of the sub-Cabinet, the Cabinet or the judges. And I think that this controversy over the judiciary, I'm afraid the Republican minority is concerned that we're going to treat them like they've treated us.

And what I mean by that is, you take the 106th Congress, it took 285 days on an average to get a judge approved; 103rd Congress when we controlled, it was 80 days. So you can see the difference there. Fifty five percent of President Clinton's judicial nominations to the appellate court were turned down.

We're not going to do that. We're going to have hearings. We're going to have the process vetted as soon as possible. And I think we should have up-or-down votes in the committee and on the floor. So the answer is, no, there is not litmus test and there will not be.

NOVAK: But, Senator, the president intended to name Congressman Christopher Cox of California, a very well-respected member of Congress, though quite conservative and anti-abortion. And that under the so-called blue slip system, one senator, Senator Barbara Boxer, has eliminated him from even being appointed. She's only one of -- what is it? -- 19 senators -- 18 senators in that judicial circuit. Do you think that's a good system, the blue slip system where one senator can get rid of all that?

REID: Bob, we didn't invented that system. Orrin Hatch invented that system. We're just following...

NOVAK: But you think it's a good system?

REID: I personally don't think it's a good system. I think the best system is one that John Ensign and I have developed in the state of Nevada, where we have bipartisan look at these judges. He's going to appoint three, I'm going to get one. I said that's one more than I deserve. And we've agreed so far on three judges; not a bad way to go. It can be done. I just think we need a more open process. You're asking about nominations, generally. The system is broken for judges and everybody else. Bush will not have his Cabinet people in place until February of next year. It's not our fault. It's the system.

NOVAK: Sub-Cabinet?

REID: Yes. It's terrible.

SHIELDS: Senator Reid, on the question of litmus tests, you are rather lonesome on occasion because you are a pro-life Democrat. We hear so much every four years about the Republicans ought to be a big tent party, welcome in pro-choice folks, but really it seemed in the last few conventions that pro-life Democrats have been unwelcome to the party. Governor Casey of Pennsylvania was even prevented from speaking to the Democratic Convention. Is there a litmus test for Democrats?

REID: Bob, I think that was a long time ago, Governor Casey.

I think, you know, you have some Democrats who don't vote all the time the way that some of the pro-choice people feel they should. But I think John Breaux, Harry Reid and Byron Dorgan and Kent Conrad, I think -- Wendell Ford, who just left -- I think we've been treated pretty well by the Democrats.

I know I have. My son is chairman of the state party in Nevada, until a few days ago. I have no problem.

I think if we start having programs like this, we're going to wind up losing people like they did Jeffords. We cannot have litmus tests for this Democratic Party of John Kennedy and Franklin Roosevelt.

SHIELDS: On the question of, sort of, grumbling and rumbling in the cloak rooms, House Democrats have expressed to me recently their concern that George W. Bush is going through a battlefield conversion, just like Bill Clinton did when the Democrats lost the Congress in 1994, and Bill Clinton moved and endorsed welfare reform and then took away a great Republican issue.

They see George Bush getting chummy with John McCain on patients' bill of rights, ready to scuttle the insurance companies, conservative Republicans are scared stiff about it. Isn't there a good chance that George Bush will get chummy with Senate Democrats, pass a patients' bill of rights and deprive the Democrats of a great issue for 2002?

REID: I sure hope he does, just like welfare reform. No matter how we got welfare reform, we got it, and it's been good for the country. And the patients' bill of rights, no matter how we get there, it will be good for the country.

If we do something that's good, there's all kinds of credit to go around -- the Republican House, a Democratic Senate and President Bush. NOVAK: Senator Reid, on Thursday night of this past week there was a big fund-raiser in Teaneck, New Jersey for Senator Bob Torricelli, Democrat of New Jersey. All week long in New Jersey they advertised a special guest would be Harry Reid, the new majority whip. Comes to the Thursday night fund-raiser, no Harry Reid; says he has a previous engagement. Are you throwing Bob Torricelli overboard because he's under an investigation by the Justice Department, as far as this race for 2004 goes -- 2002 goes?

REID: Bob and I came to the House together in 1982. We are close personal friends. I have great admiration and respect for him. Every dealing I've had with Bob Torricelli or I know anyone else had dealing with him, he's been fair and above board.

I will say this: I had to close a Senate. I have a new job now. I close the Senate and it didn't happen until 6:45; impossible for me to make it there. Whoever advertised I would be there didn't realize, I guess, we would be in the majority.

But let me say this: I think that the scandal that we have in the Torricelli matter is these leaks. Wherever they're coming from they're immoral and they're illegal and somebody should stomp them out.

NOVAK: But they're coming from the Justice Department.

REID: I don't know. If the Justice Department is doing it, I think it's a pox on their house.

SHIELDS: OK. We have to take a break. When we come back, we'll have "The Big Question" for Senator Harry Reid.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHIELDS: "The Big Question" for Senator Harry Reid: In 2004, would Harry Reid of Nevada support Tom Daschle of South Dakota, his Senate majority leader, for president of the United States?

REID: Of course.

SHIELDS: Do you expect him to run?

REID: I don't know. Tom Daschle's biggest job right now, and he's said this to me and many other people, is to be a good leader. That is a job in and of itself. He doesn't have time to think about running for president or reelection. He has to think about organizing the Senate to try and get the Senate to move on.

NOVAK: So you're saying he probably won't run.

REID: I'm saying I don't know. Tom Daschle doesn't know at this stage, I would bet.

SHIELDS: But he could count on Harry Reid.

REID: Sure. NOVAK: Your candidate for president in 2000, Al Gore, has disappeared since the election; hasn't said anything. Would you like to see him break that silence and say a little bit more about what's going on in Washington?

REID: I've talked to Al Gore several times since the election. I supported him back to the time he ran and withdrew. I think the world of him and his family.

I think Al Gore should just take it real easy. I think these presidential elections are far, far too long. I think he should just cool it. I think he should continue doing what he's doing at Harvard or wherever he's going to do it. He should continue his writing. I just think let's just not get involved in a presidential election. It's way, way too early.

NOVAK: Would you like to see him run again?

REID: I would like to see -- Al Gore is a great public servant. He should stay involved.

NOVAK: That wasn't exactly what he asked, but we're out of time.

(LAUGHTER)

Thank you very much, Harry Reid.

REID: You bet.

NOVAK: Mark Shields and I will be back with a comment after these messages.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHIELDS: Bob, Harry Reid's not being underestimated, having converted Jim Jeffords to the Democratic side, and he was surprised the dickens when he said there would be no Democratic litmus test for judges on the matter of being pro-choice, which has been the Democratic litmus test on abortion.

SHIELDS: He said everybody's going to get a hearing, get a vote in committee and get a vote on the floor.

NOVAK: But, Mark, I didn't quite get a clear answer from the senator on whether there would be an up-and-down vote on all kinds of legislation or whether things that they didn't have the votes for they'd use other techniques like the filibuster. He wouldn't say absolutely not. So we have to see when it comes right down to it if they want to stop something from getting passed, whether the new Democratic majority will use the tactics that the Republicans have used.

SHIELDS: Harry Reid did seem to suggest that there's going to be a patients' bill of rights; that President George W. Bush is going to come toward the Democrats, maybe not as much as he wants; and understood the political risk here. The Democrats could lose an issue and George W. Bush could do exactly what Bill Clinton had done so politically effectively on welfare reform by embracing their position.

NOVAK: Obviously, Harry Reid is not one of the charismatic superstars of the U.S. Senate, but he's what Sam Rayburn used to call a workhorse instead of a show horse, and he's become a powerful and effective person. The first time he was on this show in 1993, we put him on because he had talked back to Ross Perot when Perot was riding high at the top of his game. He's a gutsy guy and an effective politician.

I'm Robert Novak.

SHIELDS: I'm Mark Shields.

NOVAK: Coming up in one-half hour on "RELIABLE SOURCES," does the media go too far in its reporting of Senator Tom Daschle's visit to the McCain Ranch? And at 7:00 p.m. on "CAPITAL GANG," the Democrats take the lead in the Senate; John McCain flexes his political muscles; and our "Newsmakers of the Week": "The Washington Post"'s Katharine Graham and Ben Bradlee.

SHIELDS: Thank you for joining us.

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