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CNN Novak, Hunt & Shields

Interview With Andrew Card

Aired December 15, 2001 - 17:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MARK SHIELDS, CO-HOST: I'm Mark Shields. Robert Novak and I are in the West Wing of the White House, here to question President Bush's number-one aide.

ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: He is White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): Three months after the terrorist attack, President Bush enjoys high ratings from the public and high praise from Democrats. But he came under criticism this week with the announcement of U.S. withdrawal from the ABM Treaty.

SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: No one called my office. No one talked to me or my staff about the administration's desire to pull out of the ABM Treaty. And yet, it was in the papers.

NOVAK: As Congress finally neared adjournment for the year, a compromised economic stimulus bill neared agreement.

SEN. TRENT LOTT (R-MS), MINORITY LEADER: I think it's a close call, 50-50. But I believe there will be a deal.

NOVAK: Andy Card, at age 53, is a veteran of Massachusetts Republican politics dating back three decades. He was elected to the state legislature in a heavily Democratic state.

He is also an old Washington hand, serving in the Reagan White House and then as the first President Bush's deputy chief of staff and secretary of transportation, and later was hired to be the automotive industry's chief lobbyist.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOVAK: Mr. Card, there are critics of the administration who say that the president decided to make the timing of the breaking of the ABM Treaty coincide with the tape of Osama bin Laden, so that the ABM Treaty would get almost no attention while everybody was fixed on Osama bin Laden.

Is there some truth to that?

ANDREW CARD, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Absolutely not. The president talked about the need for this country to get out of the ABM Treaty while he was running for president of the United States. And he consulted with allies around the world; he spoke to leaders on Capitol Hill; he met with the president of Russia.

And the timing was right for that announcement to be made. An awful lot of work had been done. It was very important that the United States move forward to a new solution to some of the threats that face this country, and the time is right for him to get out of the ABM Treaty.

NOVAK: Mr. Card, the Senate majority leader, Tom Daschle, says that he was not notified in advance of this announcement. Now, I had thought that the president, whatever differences he might have with the Democrats on domestic policy, particularly since September 11 is trying to have a bipartisan policy on foreign policy and national security affairs.

How does that comport with not giving advance notice to Senator Daschle?

CARD: I'm sure that Senator Daschle paid attention to the election campaign last year when the president talked about the need to get out of the ABM Treaty. And he has certainly been consulted with many, many people over the course of this year about what the United States was planning to do in the negotiations with President Putin, and we were headed towards getting out of the ABM Treaty.

The president, on the day that he announced that we were withdrawing from that treaty, had breakfast with the Senate majority leader, and he told the majority leader that we were in fact moving forward...

NOVAK: So he did give advance notice to Senator Daschle?

CARD: On the day that the president made the announcement, yes.

SHIELDS: Mr. Card, in the first week of October President Bush became the first Republican president to declare in favor and support of a free Palestinian state.

Prospects for peace in that troubled area have never been more remote. And in meeting here at the White House earlier this week, and in subsequent statements, and the president's own White House press secretary, the blame has been fixed squarely in the responsibility for the breakdown in prospects for peace on Yasser Arafat and the Palestinians.

Is that the administration's position?

CARD: We would like to move forward with the peace process, but it's not realistic today because the level of violence has increased dramatically over the last several months.

And clearly Chairman Arafat has a responsibility to help bring the level of violence down so that we can get back to some semblance of organization that would lead toward progress in the Mitchell plan. We have the Tenet plan that was put forward that was a road map to the Mitchell plan. And it's not realistic for us to be on that road today and still get the level of violence down.

Chairman Arafat has a significant responsibility to provide that direction to the people in Palestine to bring the level of violence down.

SHIELDS: And you've urged Chairman Arafat to bring to justice, and yet daily and hourly we see further evidence of Israeli attacks upon the very law enforcement authorities and their buildings in the Palestinian area. Isn't that a little contradictory?

CARD: Well, I'm confident that Chairman Arafat has the ability to bring some level of reduction in violence in that area, and the charge is on him to meet that responsibility. We also know that the Israeli leadership has a responsibility as well.

We would like to see the entire level of violence brought down dramatically so that people can sit around a table and work toward peace.

SHIELDS: Pope John Paul II said that he blames both sides. He said -- the expression he used was that it's caused by two different extremisms who are disfiguring the Holy Land.

SHIELDS: I guess we can conclude that the president and this administration are at odds with the holy father on the Middle East.

CARD: Well, I don't think I would jump to that conclusion. Clearly, we'd like to see peace in the Middle East. But the road getting there is not going to be an easy road. And Chairman Arafat is the one who has the primary responsibility of reducing the level of terrorism that is attacking Israel.

The Israeli government, I think, legitimately is trying to protect themselves. But we've got to get to a level of violence that is far reduced from what it is today so that we can move forward with some plan toward peace.

NOVAK: Mr. Card, this late in the session, the members of both the House and the Senate have gone back to their home districts, ostensibly, I believe, to attend Christmas parties. But I know there are no negotiations going on this weekend. The stimulus package, a lot of people feel, will be passed next week, but just a shadow of its former self, perhaps with no cuts in income tax, speeding up, as the president proposed.

Are you willing to have any bill with the title of "stimulus" on it even if it's just a shadow of what the president originally proposed?

CARD: Well, there is a logjam between the House and the Senate in terms of moving a stimulus package. The House passed a good stimulus package, and the president was ready to sign that into law if it could get to the White House. The Senate has not taken any action on a stimulus plan.

The president broke the logjam by offering some specifics with -- surrounding good principles that would stimulate the economy by providing, I'm going to say, greater consumer incentives to spend money because it was going to get money back to consumers. He was also going to give incentives to business to go out and buy more products that would create more jobs and...

(CROSSTALK)

CARD: But it was a good plan. It was a balanced stimulus package, and he'd like to see Congress move forward with that plan.

He attracted good bipartisan support from the so-called centrist group in the Senate led by John Breaux, Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins and others. And we are confident that the votes are there to pass that responsible stimulus package in the Senate.

We hope that the Senate leadership would bring that package up for a vote. And if they do, I am quite confident that the House and the Senate will resolve their differences and the president can sign the stimulus package into law.

NOVAK: That sort of gently leads into what the vice president, Vice President Cheney, has been saying about Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle, that he's an obstructionist. Does the president of the United States think the Majority Leader Daschle is an obstructionist?

CARD: Well, we are concerned that the House has taken action on so many important pieces of legislation this year, and yet the Senate has not -- the stimulus package, number one.

The president would like to see this economy stimulated. Since the president called for an economic plan some 800,000 people have lost their jobs in this country. Now the Senate has got to act.

The House passed an energy plan; the Senate has not taken it up. The House passed the faith-based initiative that the president feels is important; the Senate hasn't taken it up.

There's a long list of issues where the House has acted and the Senate has not, and we'd like to see the leadership in the Senate move forward some of these plans so that we can get them on the president's desk.

SHIELDS: Mr. Card, the president has told the American people time and again, this is going to be a long war, requiring considerable sacrifice. Yet it's the only war in 140 years in the United States we've entered with a tax cut and with no draft. Sacrifice seems to be rather limited to those who are in uniform.

Let me ask you, of the 1,155,316 Americans in the enlisted ranks of the United States military, is there a single one who's a son of anybody from the Bush administration's cabinet?

CARD: You know, I don't know the answer to that question. But I can tell you this is a different kind of war. So when we compare it to past actions, I don't think we're doing this challenge justice.

This war is being fought on so many different fronts. We have people who are fighting this war who are working at the Treasury Department, preventing money from going to terrorists. We have postal workers who are helping to fight this war by making sure that the mail is delivered. We have people who are fighting this war who are search and rescue workers, still working up at ground zero in New York City. We've got policemen and firemen, in addition to the folks who are wearing our uniform overseas. This war is being fought on so many different fronts.

You're focusing on the war in the battle in Afghanistan. And we are going to get Osama bin Laden no matter how long it takes. This president is patient but he is persistent. And we will fight this war, but there are a lot of patriots helping to win this war.

SHIELDS: We have to take a break now. Robert Novak and I will be back with White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card to ask if President Bush, the compelling commander in chief, is still dominant politically at home.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NOVAK: Andrew Card, one of President Bush's closest supporters in the House of Representatives, Representative Rob Portman of Ohio, chairman of the House Republican leadership, has said publicly on several occasions that he would like the president to be a little more aggressive in pushing domestic legislation, which he says he hasn't done since September 11.

Do you think the president in the coming year will be more forthcoming, more aggressive on domestic legislation?

CARD: I love Rob Portman. He's a terrific fellow. But I happen know that President Bush pushed very hard for his domestic agenda.

Let's not forget all that happened prior to September 10. The president put forward a domestic agenda that included stimulating the economy and winning tax cuts. He called for education reform, and I'm confident that we will have education reform brought to a reality.

He called for trade opportunities that would expand around the globe. And we have had an important vote in the House to pass trade promotion authority, and it passed by one vote thanks to the work that the president did.

And I am convinced that we would not have had a tax cut had it not been for the president. We would not have had a stimulative effect on the economy if it had not been for the president. We would not have had education reform close to reality if it had not been for the president. And we certainly would not have had the passage of the trade promotion authority in the House had it not been for the president. CARD: So he has a very aggressive agenda. He's pushing it hard. And I'm confident that the leadership that you see from the president today is the exact kind of leadership that you'll see from him next year.

NOVAK: Well, let me pose one thing, sir, that he doesn't seem to be pushing. In the campaign he was very aggressive in pushing Social Security reform, but the co-chairman of the Social Security reform commission say, let's put this off for a year. And they say the president asked them to put it off for a year because it's very, very controversial politically, unless the president really puts his shoulder to the wheel.

CARD: Well, remember the priorities for this president changed on September 11. We now have the war that we have to fight, and it's a war against terrorism, it's a war against America's interests. And we're going to fight that war. That's the top priority.

The president has had as a top priority since he took office the priority of stimulating our economy and generating new growth in our economy. That need to stimulate the economy is even greater because of what happened on September 11, on September 10. And we know we're going to push very, very hard for that.

So I can tell you this president continues to have a priority for addressing the other issues he talked about, but they are lower on the ladder than winning the war and recovering our economy.

I want to point out on Social Security, the president did form this task force to take a look at Social Security. They did a remarkable job, worked very, very hard at it, understanding an extremely complicated issue.

They had a consensus in that committee that there should be personal savings accounts as part of any reform. They also said the reform would not be easy. And they've caller for basically a national debate to take place on Social Security, and that's exactly what the president wants to have happen.

SHIELDS: Mr. Card, you're a Northeastern Republican. You went off as your own in heavily Democratic Massachusetts. Yet the Republican Party with Ronald Reagan carried every one of the Northeastern states. George Bush I carried eight of the 11 Northeastern states against Michael Dukakis. And yet, in the last two elections they've been non-competitive in the Northeast, I mean, truly.

And I'm just asking you right now if this party that now speaks with an exclusionary Southern drawl to a lot of New Englanders and Northeasterners, with Lott and Armey and Gingrich, is the election of Tom DeLay as a principle player in the House going to help the Republican Party in the Northeast?

CARD: Well, the Republican Party in the Northeast is doing pretty well. We have a Republican governor in Connecticut, a Republican governor in Massachusetts. I'm confident that we'll get a Republican governor next time in Maine and New Hampshire and in Vermont. And so, we're doing very well up there.

And the party is growing, and it's growing because of the leadership that comes from President Bush. So I don't buy your premise.

SHIELDS: You don't? I'm surprised at that.

Let me ask you this about New England. You have a race there, a very heated Senate race. The Republicans striving to win back control of the Senate in 2002. Bob Smith, veteran Republican senator, being challenged by young John Sununu, the son of the former chief of staff at the White House and your colleague.

What's the White House going to do? Going to support the incumbent, help him get elected, get the Republicans a majority?

CARD: We'd like to see a Republican majority in the United States Senate, and we'll be working hard to make sure that happens. So whoever wins that Republican primary in New Hampshire we'll be supporting aggressively. And I'm confident that New Hampshire will have a Republican Senate representative for that seat.

SHIELDS: Nothing before the primary?

CARD: I tell you, we want to see the Republicans gain -- regain control of the Senate, and we'll be doing everything we can to do it.

NOVAK: Mr. Card, the president came under some criticism for not getting out on the hustings and doing at least a little something -- I know there's a war on -- for the Republican candidates for governor in New Jersey and Virginia, both of whom lost.

The Republican politicians I talk to really want him to get out on the trail in 2002, with the Congress at stake. Will he do it or not?

CARD: Well, the president has done an awful lot to help the party just by providing great leadership. And I tell you, there's a sense of recognition in this country that the president and the Republican Party provide the leadership that the country needs today, and that will benefit the party and it benefits our candidate.

There are a lot of people who did go up to help candidates running in the last election. I went up to New Jersey and helped, and I know others from the White House did. We also helped in the Virginia race.

This president understands his top priority is to win the war. And he's done a great job of rallying not only the country but the world to try to win this war. And I think it's appropriate that that be his top priority, and making sure that our economy gets back on the growth track.

SHIELDS: Democratic Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee Max Baucus of Montana voted for the president's tax cut, was a strong supporter earlier. And I'm just asking you, will the White House look to friendly Democrats and say, "Well, let's make efforts in places perhaps other than Montana?"

CARD: Well, let me -- first of all, we'd like to see Senator Baucus help us bring an economic stimulus package to reality. He's the chairman of the Finance Committee in the Senate. He has a lot to say about whether or not there will be a vote on an economic stimulus plan. And I'm confident that he would like to see a stimulus plan, and hope the leadership in the Senate will bring that plan to the floor so they can vote on it.

But I have worked closely with Senator Baucus. I worked with him in negotiations over the tax plan that became a reality and was signed into law by President Bush.

And I am confident that he will help to try to get a vote on the trade promotion authority. After all, out of his committee -- there was a vote this past week, 18 to 3 recommending trade promotion authority to the floor of the Senate, and we hope the Senate will bring that up.

NOVAK: But you didn't answer Mark's question. Are you going to campaign against him?

CARD: We would like to see a Republican-controlled Senate, and last I checked Max Baucus wasn't a Republican.

SHIELDS: That's not an awfully personal endorsement you just gave to him for...

CARD: Well, I know Max Baucus pretty well. I like him, but I would like a Republican in that seat a lot more.

SHIELDS: OK.

We have to take a break now, but when Robert Novak and I come back to talk to White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card, we will have for him the "Big Question."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHIELDS: The "Big Question" for White House Chief of Staff Andy Card:

You're on record as saying, "The half-shelf-life of the White House chief of staff is two years." Can we look for Andrew Card to be here one year from today?

CARD: If you look at history, you'll find that the chief of staff has had an average tenure of 22 months. And I want to do a good enough job for the president so that he keeps me as long as I'm doing a good job for him.

I serve the president of the United States, and if you look at the piece of paper hanging on my wall, it's called "The Commission," it says, "I serve at the pleasure of the president for the time being." As long as I have this pleasure, I think the time will be that I'll be serving him. NOVAK: So when are you leaving?

CARD: I will leave the president when the president wants me to leave.

NOVAK: I'm going to ask you a very careful question, Mr. Card.

CARD: That was the "Big Question?"

(LAUGHTER)

NOVAK: I'm going to ask you a careful question. Is there any chance, any chance that you will be a candidate for governor of Massachusetts in the year 2002?

CARD: No chance. I'm supporting Jane Swift. I think she is a terrific governor, and I would like to see her reelected -- or elected, because she was really elevated into that position by being the lieutenant governor to now our ambassador to Canada, Paul Cellucci. And she's a terrific governor and a really good candidate, and I am confident that she will win.

NOVAK: And so you did not -- it is not true that you hired a pollster to check your chances against her?

CARD: You are right, it is not true. I did not hire a pollster.

NOVAK: Andrew Card, thank you very much.

CARD: Thank you.

NOVAK: Mark Shields and I will be back with a comment after these messages.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NOVAK: Mark, Vice President Cheney created quite a stir a week ago when he called Senate Majority Leader Daschle an obstructionist. Now, Andy Card is a smooth operator. He would not use the old word "obstructionist," but he listed all of this legislation that he said would have been passed if it wasn't for the Senate Democratic leadership. So he was in effect agreeing with Cheney, and that's the White House strategy.

SHIELDS: One further part of White House strategy, Bob, that we heard by Andrew Card, who has to be perhaps the most loyal White House chief of staff and most circumspect that I have come across in my years in Washington, he went to great lengths to say the responsibility and the blame for the breakdown of peace opportunities and outbreak of war in the Middle East is on the Palestinians and Yasser Arafat in particular, and absolved, essentially, Ariel Sharon from any of the trouble.

NOVAK: And, Mark, if you have any doubts, you can take a grave and bury the Social Security reform for the next year at the very least. Andy Card said there are new priorities because of September 11. And obviously, fixing the Social Security system next year is not one of them.

SHIELDS: And I think, probably, Bob, going into the Social Security trust fund to finance the government probably doesn't make it a terribly appealing option right now.

But I will say this: Andy Card laid to rest all speculation that he, a former office-holder who won in Democratic Massachusetts, would return to his home state and run for governor in 2002. He backed Republican Jane Swift unequivocally for the 2002 election.

NOVAK: I'm Robert Novak.

SHIELDS: I'm Mark Shields.

NOVAK: Coming up in one hour on the "CAPITAL GANG," the latest on the war in Afghanistan with Senator Orrin Hatch; and our "Newsmaker of the Week," Senator Hillary Clinton; on the conflict in the Middle East with former Senator George Mitchell.

CNN's coverage of America's new war continues now. Thanks for watching.

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