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CNN Novak, Hunt & Shields

Interview With Elizabeth Dole

Aired August 10, 2002 - 17:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MARK SHIELDS, CO-HOST: I'm Mark Shields. Robert Novak and I are at the Southern National Speedway in Lucomba (ph), North Carolina, here to question the leading Republican candidate for the United States Senate.
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: She is Elizabeth Dole.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NOVAK (voice-over): A graduate of Harvard Law School, Elizabeth Dole entered government service for the first time in 1965 in the Democratic Johnson administration's Office of Education.

Still a political independent, four years later she became Consumer Affairs deputy assistant to President Richard Nixon, who in 1973 made her a federal trade commissioner.

In 1983, President Ronald Reagan named her secretary of transportation, and in 1989, the first President George Bush appointed her secretary of labor.

She was president of the American Red Cross from 1991 through 1999, taking off 14 months without pay to campaign for her husband Bob Dole's 1996 campaign for president.

She sought the 2000 Republican presidential nomination herself, and last year returned to her native North Carolina to seek the Senate seat held for 30 years by Republican Jesse Helms.

The most recent poll conducted for Mrs. Dole gives her a 32- percentage-point lead over the most likely Democratic nominee, former White House chief of staff Erskine Bowles. The party nominees will be selected in September 10 primary elections.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOVAK: Elizabeth Dole, you are trying to succeed Jesse Helms, who for 30 years has been a conservative hero not only in North Carolina but across the nation. Are you assuring the voters here that your voting record in the Senate would be exactly the same as Jesse Helms?

ELIZABETH DOLE, NORTH CAROLINA SENATE CANDIDATE: No. I have the greatest respect for Jesse Helms. He's been a friend for many, many years. And I don't think that any two people ever have exactly the same views on issues. I'm not sure that Bob and Elizabeth Dole could agree on 100 percent of the issues.

But certainly, on most of the issues, I'm on right where he is. I'm a conservative. And, you know, I have so much respect for him, because here's a man who's been a relentless watchdog for North Carolina. In fact, those are my dad's words. He practically singlehandedly reformed the United Nations. And he's a great gentleman who is so proud of his staff, has constituent service second to none. And I want to replicate that constituent service certainly.

NOVAK: Well, you are the only candidate in either party here in North Carolina running for the Senate who supports trade promotion authority...

DOLE: Right.

NOVAK: ... which President Bush just signed into law. Senator Helms was opposed to that.

Are there any other issues, important issues like that, where you would differ from Senator Helms?

DOLE: Well, I think that, you know, there's certainly other issues where we might see things a little bit differently. And maybe, maybe it's a matter of style in a certain sense, because I'm a great believer in building coalitions.

When I was secretary of transportation, for example, I was told there is no way you can transfer the airports out of the federal government in the Washington area because these airports just belong to the Congress. There have been eight efforts to transfer them out since 1948, and it's never come out of committee, either the House or Senate. And my husband was the one who made those comments.

(LAUGHTER)

Well, I put together a coalition. That was pillow talk, Bob, and that was really throwing down the gauntlet, as far as I was concerned.

So we out together a coalition with the CEOs of the airlines, with the mayor of the District of Columbia, the governor of Virginia. It took us three years. It was tough, hard work, but we moved those airports out of the federal government, off the federal dole, so they could get revenue bonds and really develop.

We'd been through airline deregulations. One of the airports needed to double its capacity. The other was the gateway to the nation's capital. Now you see a beautiful new building. We got this done.

But coalition-building, working across the aisle, this is kind of my style, because I like results. I want to go into a job and find, here are the six or eight key things that cry out for change right now. Get the best possible team around you, go for it, get it done. And I think my record shows that I can do that.

SHIELDS: Elizabeth Dole, during the 2000 campaign, first as a candidate and then as a strong supporter of Governor George W. Bush...

DOLE: Right.

SHIELDS: ... you yourself were an endorser of partial privatization of Social Security, where workers could devote some of their Social Security benefit to private investments, stock market.

In view of the 4,000-point drop in the Dow Jones, we just experienced it here in this country, have you -- do you have any second thoughts about privatization of Social Security?

DOLE: Let me tell you where I am on this. First of all, I am certainly not talking about privatizing Social Security. I don't think anyone is saying privatize the system.

I'm very concerned that there are people who criticize a position that suggests anything that might be a way of handling this looming crisis. They put their hands in the sand. Frankly, I think it's shameful. I am sick and tired, and I think the American people are sick and tired, of this avoidance, of scare tactics. Remember, FDR said we have nothing to fear but fear itself? Well, today it seems that some have nothing to offer but fear itself. And so, it's time for responsible leaders to put some thoughts, some ideas on the table.

Now, I would never, if I were in the Senate, vote to take one penny from our retirees or to increase their taxes at all. I do think that if you looked at the possibility -- and this is an idea to put on the battleground of ideas -- you looked at the possibility of having, for example, a diversified index, a small portion of the payroll tax voluntarily -- let's take the bond market, where you have inflation- adjusted government bonds. That would produce, over time, I think, a dramatic increase, more so that what's being received now.

So, you know, this is something to think about. It's an idea.

SHIELDS: OK. During that same campaign, you spoke -- you broke with other Republican candidates when you said, "Police work is hard enough already. No one should make it harder. I think it's wrong to let people carry concealed weapons."

Your current position, as I understand it, is, "North Carolina has a common-sense proposal, a right-to-carry law," permits citizens to carry a concealed handgun.

Why the switch?

DOLE: First of all, let me say I'm a strong supporter of the Second Amendment to the Constitution and protecting the constitutional rights of law-abiding citizens. In fact, I believe you're looking at the first woman to ever address the NRA.

Now, as far as carrying concealed, I did have some questions. And, you know, I'm going to be right up front about that. I've been meeting with the sheriffs in North Carolina, and we've talked and I've listened to them; they have listened to me. They're supporting me, and I'm supporting what they tell me is a very successful law in North Carolina, because there are restrictions on who can carry the weapons, also where you can take them. And most definitely, this is a law that could be a model for other states.

John Lott (ph), who did a lot of work when he was at Yale University, which is not exactly a bastion of conservatism, Yale Law School, he has reviewed the counties across American for 18 years. And his work shows that where you have carry-and-conceal laws, aggravated assault is down, rape is down and murder is down.

So, you know, this is information that I have learned and answers questions. So the sheriffs are supporting me, and I'm supporting what they have told me about this. This has answered my questions.

NOVAK: Mrs. Dole, there's a lot of worries about a double-dip recession. The president is having an economic forum in Texas, coming up.

Apart from making permanent the tax cuts -- this is tax cuts in the future, which you support -- what do you think the president ought to do, right now, specifically, to avert a double-dip recession?

DOLE: Well, first of all, I'm not convinced that we're moving into a double-dip recession. I think there are a lot of economists who feel that the recovery is moving. Certainly we've got low interest rates, low inflation, productivity is high. There are good signs.

I think what the president is doing is right on track, because he is promoting economic growth. I'm disappointed that the Senate, which has become a graveyard for a lot of issues, they scaled back the economic stimulus package and removed some of the incentives for business, which would enable business to create more jobs, in terms of buying equipment, upgrading their plants.

And as we provide more incentives to the business community -- and I think the president has this in mind -- then most definitely we'll create the jobs, we'll get the economy moving, we'll get more revenue. And as the president says, if we hold the line and be fiscally responsible, we'll be back in surplus in 2005.

Now, the problem here is that the Congress keeps adding on all these pork-barrel projects. I want to be the champion of the line- item veto. I think the president needs that. I think we could quickly get the line-item veto, constitutional amendment.

When I was secretary of transportation, I recommended to President Bush that he veto a highway bill that had 150 pork-barrel projects, and he did. Well, we wanted to stop that train from leaving the station. Unfortunately, the train left. Today, the highway bills have, you know, 2,000 pork-barrel projects. All the spending bills have all these billions of extra money.

We need to have that line-item veto so the president can strike out those pork-barrel projects.

SHIELDS: OK. We have to take a break right now, but when we come back, we'll ask Elizabeth Dole about the wisdom of President Bush's decision to invade Iraq.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NOVAK: Elizabeth Dole, President Bush this weekend reaffirmed that he considers Saddam Hussein in Iraq an enemy of the American people.

DOLE: Yes.

NOVAK: But there are thoughtful Republicans with second thoughts about invading. House Majority Leader Dick Armey has warned against an unprovoked attack. Caution from Brent Scowcroft, Jack Kemp, Chuck Hagel, Dick Lugar.

Do you have some second thoughts about whether it's wise to invade right now?

DOLE: No, I have great confidence in the president and his team. I think he's surrounded by people like Don Rumsfeld, who I know very well, and couldn't have a finer secretary of defense than Don Rumsfeld.

And I think the president is looking at all options, and that's exactly the way to proceed. Meeting with opposition leaders, economic, diplomatic, any other alternatives, but military has to be one of those possible alternatives.

Here's a man who is developing weapons of mass destruction, nuclear weapons. He has used chemical weapons against his own people. He pays thousands and thousands of dollars to families of the suicide bombers.

This man would love to destroy the United States and to use those weapons as soon as he has them. And I think we have to have that as an option. The president is the one who has all the information, so he can make the decision as to what to do and when.

NOVAK: The president, this past week, said he would consult with Congress. In fact, over the weekend, he said he is consulting with Congress. In addition to consulting, do you think he should get prior approval from Congress before making a military move?

DOLE: I think he already has that prior approval because it's Public Law 101.1 back during the time of the Persian Gulf and Desert Storm, which gave him authority to get the Iraqis out of Kuwait, but also to ensure peace and security for the region. There is no peace and security in the region now. So, now, I think, yes, he's right to consult.

And certainly, you know, Saddam Hussein is violating U.N. Resolution 687 clearly. Now, it's not a matter of the inspectors. The issue is he's supposed to destroy all of these weapons of mass destruction. And he's had years not to hide all of this. So even if all of the inspectors went back in, what kind of confidence would we have that they determine what's happened in all of these years? SHIELDS: OK, back to the domestic front. In the 2002 campaign, one check of the record shows your campaign is the sixth-largest recipient of contributions from pharmaceutical executives and drug companies. And the Senate just considered a prescription drug bill.

DOLE: Yes.

SHIELDS: One of the proposals that did pass the Senate was for generic drugs, to make -- the pharmaceuticals fought tooth and toenail because it would make the price a lot cheeper. But the seniors pushed for it because it would make drug prices lower.

How would you have voted on that?

DOLE: Well, let me tell you there are parts of that, you know, clearly if they're looking for an extension on the patent because they've changed the color of the pill or the bottle is a different color or there's some sort of pay-off to generic companies not to put their drugs on the market, then that's wrong.

But let me tell you what that did. By going to that piece of legislation, they avoided moving forward on a prescription drug bill. That legislation is not going to take the place of providing seniors with the prescription drugs they need.

As I've traveled the 100 counties of North Carolina since last September, I've talked to people who are cutting their pills in half, who are not using the full prescription. They need that help now. The Congress should have moved on it before they left for this August recess.

And I think there is a plan that is doable, that's realistic, that can move forward right now. I would support a voluntary effort, bipartisan, because some people have prescription drugs and they don't want to give up that plan, you know. So let it be voluntary, a cap on the out of pockets expenditures; the doctor, the patient decide what drugs.

I'm all for moving forward on this right away.

SHIELDS: In the 2000 campaign, you were on record, again breaking with your Republican opponents, said, "I would not curtail U.S. involvement in international organizations which I think are important to our vital interests, those organizations that promote or at least offer abortion as an alternative."

This year you have said, you've told the North Carolina Right to Life Convention that the decision on whether federal taxpayers dollars are not used for abortions may rest with what happens in November. Now, is there a -- in other words, this election. How has that changed?

DOLE: Let me make my position very clear. I am, and I always have been, pro-life, with the exception of rape, incest and the life of the mother. I am for fostering a culture that respects life. Now, the statement back in '99 basically was -- and I think there may have been some misconstruing or misunderstanding here -- if an organization is recommending or performing abortions, then yes, withhold the money. That's President Reagan's Mexico City plan. I approve that, I support it.

But my point was that we, the overall parent organization, such as the United Nations, yes, we have to belong to an organization like that. We want to try to promote our values, our belief in a free market, in democracy. We want to work with other countries around the world in that respect. And certainly at a time when we have terrorism, we've got to be working together to fight this, to have the coalitions.

So you don't pull out of an organization because there's an agency within that organization...

NOVAK: But you're supportive of President Bush's position on this?

DOLE: On Mexico City?

NOVAK: On pulling back from the support of the international United Nations family planing?

DOLE: Yes. Yes, I am.

NOVAK: There's been a great deal of opposition in the North Carolina legislature over a plan by the University of North Carolina to require reading of a book about the Koran for incoming freshman.

Which side are you on on that?

DOLE: Well, for the life of me, I don't know why they would go forward to do that. It's certainly not something that I would have done. But there is a thing called academic freedom, and so that's going to be up to the university to determine rather than the politicians.

SHIELDS: OK, when we come back, we have to take a break, we will have for Elizabeth Dole the Big Question.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHIELDS: The Big Question for Elizabeth Dole:

Mrs. Dole, if, on September 11, as expected, you're the Republican nominee for the United States Senate from North Carolina, will you now agree to televised debates with your Democratic opponent?

DOLE: You know, I'm going to let this primary take place. Right now, I'm working hard. I'm focusing on winning the primary. Let's see who wins, and then we'll look down the road to determine just exactly where we go from there.

SHIELDS: So the answer is no? DOLE: I'm leaving it open.

(LAUGHTER)

NOVAK: Mrs. Dole, you have a lot of experience in the business community, as well as government. What more do you think the government should do to curb this problem of corporate corruption?

DOLE: I think that the government should require that corporations have financial statement insurance. I want to change the incentives, because right now, an auditor is beholden to the corporation that hires him. I want the commitment to be to accuracy, not to that corporation that's paying the bill.

So have the insurance company choose an independent auditor. The insurance company has every reason to want to be sure they don't have to pay off a lot of claims. They're going to get an auditor who's tough, who's thorough. And the auditor certainly doesn't want to lose business with the insurance company, so they're going to do a thorough job.

Let's change the incentives; they're wrong.

NOVAK: Do you think this corruption is a widespread problem in American business?

DOLE: No, I do not. I think most business men and women are honest people of integrity who are running a sound business. They're providing value for their stockholders and, certainly, jobs for their employees. So we're dealing with something that's limited, but it's very serious. And there should be higher standards of ethics and certainly more accountability and tougher penalties.

SHIELDS: If you are elected to the Senate, what would be the one legislative achievement you would seek in your first term?

DOLE: Well, I want to ensure that we get this spending under control, so one thing that I would certainly push immediately would be a constitutional amendment for a line-item veto. I want to be the champion of that. I think we can get it done. Forty-three states have had this. And I think we could do it quickly. And I'd look forward to pushing that.

NOVAK: We're just about out of time, but I will have to ask you, regardless of how this election comes out, is Salisbury, North Carolina, your future home for the...

DOLE: Salisbury has always been my home. Unfortunately, you can't run the American Red Cross or serve in the president's Cabinet from Salisbury. So Washington is where I work, but my roots are deep in North Carolina. I have a business there. I own a home there. Salisbury's home.

NOVAK: Elizabeth Dole, thank you very much.

DOLE: Thank you. Thank you. My pleasure. NOVAK: Mark Shields and I will be back with a comment after these messages.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NOVAK: Mark, Elizabeth Dole had nothing but praise for Jesse Helms, but she was wise to say that the people of North Carolina are not going to get a Jesse Helms vote on every issue, including international trade.

SHIELDS: Now, that's true, Bob. In 2000, Elizabeth Dole was a more moderate conservative Republican candidate, especially on gun safety. But on the issue of concealed weapons, she's proven the adage of Tip O'Neill that all politics is local. She has not modified her position, and supports the carrying of concealed weapons.

NOVAK: You know, I thought she had a much better grasp of the issues than she did in the presidential campaign. But one thing that kind of surprised me was her coming out for the line-item veto constitutional amendment. I hadn't heard that before.

I thought she was very good, by the way, on this Koran issue, where she said it was a silly thing for the University of North Carolina but there is such a thing as academic freedom.

SHIELDS: You know, Elizabeth Dole has always been more Duke than Harvard Law School. There's a charm about her, no doubt about it. She is smart. And she showed herself in this campaign -- a surefootedness that I think people hadn't expected.

The one thing that surprised me, Bob, was her unwillingness to agree to debate her Democratic opponent in the fall election.

I'm Mark Shields.

NOVAK: I'm Robert Novak.

Coming up at 7:00 p.m. Eastern on Capital Gang, Dick Cheney breaks his silence, and is Saudi Arabia an ally or an enemy, with our guest, Democratic Congressman Barney Frank of Massachusetts.

SHIELDS: Thanks for watching.

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