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CNN Novak, Hunt & Shields

Interview With Mohammed Aldouri

Aired August 24, 2002 - 17:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

AL HUNT, CO-HOST: I'm Al Hunt. Robert Novak and I will question a leading Iraqi diplomat.
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: He is Mohammed Aldouri, Iraq's ambassador to the United Nations.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NOVAK (voice-over): President Bush, speaking to reporters at his Texas ranch, said his meeting with Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld did not touch on a possible attack on Iraq. He then said the U.S. would consider all options in regard to Iraq, but added this:

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: ... is that this administration agrees that Saddam Hussein is a threat. And he will be -- you know, that's a part of our thinking, and it hasn't changed.

NOVAK: The United States, which holds the rotating presidency of the United Nations Security Council this month, indicated it has no intention of bringing up Iraq's offer to resume talks on weapons inspections. But the issue could be raised by other Security Council members.

Mohammed Aldouri was dean of the Baghdad University law school for 15 years, during which time he represented Iraq at sessions of the U.N. Commission on Human Rights. He was named Iraq's representative to the U.N. in Geneva in 1999 and to the U.N. in New York last year.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOVAK: Ambassador Aldouri, the proposals from Iraq to have talks leading to further weapons inspections seem to have been rejected or gone nowhere. Do you think this is a dead issue, or do you still believe that the weapons inspections can be resumed?

MOHAMMED ALDOURI, IRAQ'S AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: Well, thank you, first of all, Mr. Novak, for inviting me here.

No, I don't think so. The United Nations work based on dialogue, on discussion, on negotiation. And we have offering this to the United Nations for the second time. We hope that the secretariat and the United Nations will consider our invitation and also members of Security Council will consider their position, especially the United States and Britain, to discuss our proposal seriously.

Because what we wanted, really, from this invitation is to continue our dialogue, to finish the question of inspection in Iraq, and also to finish with the problem or the question of sanctions, which has a lot of negative impact on Iraqi society.

So we would like and we hope that the United Nations would accept our invitation and the delegation go to Baghdad one day to continue the dialogue and to finish with the question of inspections one day.

NOVAK: But the minister of information, the Minister Sahaf (ph), was quoted in Baghdad as saying the inspection is all concluded. Now, of course, there haven't been inspectors there for nearly four years. That surely is not the position of your government, that these inspections have been concluded, is it?

ALDOURI: Yes, of course it is our position -- in which sense, Mr. Novak?

NOVAK: Is it the position that the inspectors have been concluded?

ALDOURI: Well, this is not only our position, the position of UNSCOM before Mr. Butler said -- I mean, written in their reports that 95 percent of the task of UNSCOM has been done. Mr. Scott Ritter said one day, in recent days, that 98 percent of inspection work has been done. Iraq said, no, 100 percent of the whole question is done. So these are positions of UNSCOM, of Mr. Ritter, of Iraq.

So now we are asking to have the dialogue to demonstrate exactly what are the remaining issues, if there is any, from the point of view of UNMOVIC and to go further to know exactly what we have ahead to do in the future.

HUNT: Mr. Ambassador, those UNSCOM comments were of course four years ago. There are those who think that Iraq has developed significantly weapons over those four years.

My question is, if you have nothing to hide, and if the stakes otherwise could be war, why not let the inspectors in, give them unfettered access if you, as you say, have no weapons of mass destruction? It should be an easy call, shouldn't it?

ALDOURI: We opened Iraq to inspectors for seven years and seven months. And we opened even kindergartens, universities, hospitals, private residences and even the residency of the president of the republic. So all of the sites of the (inaudible) have been opened to inspectors. So really, we have nothing to hide, and we did nothing.

HUNT: Mr. Ambassador, you opened that because of the 1991 Gulf War after you invaded Kuwait. You were forced to by the United Nations.

Let me ask you this, if the United Nations Security Council were to reach some kind of a decision on inspectors going back in -- the United Nations is headed by an African; the U.N. Security Council includes your friend, the Russians, Mr. Putin -- can you tell us right now, would Iraq abide by any declaration of the United Nations Security Council? ALDOURI: Of course. And we are asking to have a thorough discussion on what has been implemented of all of the Security Council resolutions and what is the remaining issues. We thought that we have obligations and we did our obligations. If there is any other obligations, we have to listen to the United Nations. But also, there were obligations, there are obligations on the other side. I mean, United Nations and other states, other party.

So we have to have a thorough discussion on all remaining issues so to be very clear for the work ahead. And we would not like to have problems such as has been created before by Mr. Butler in 1988, and so we can really -- we would like to have those inspectors.

We would -- but before that, we have to discuss to be on -- to have a common ground, to reach a Mitchell understanding. And we can go ahead to finish with that work.

NOVAK: Ambassador Aldouri, the reason that the United States considers -- the United States government considers Iraq to be a threat is the possibility of nuclear development. Isn't it a fact that, considering the fact that Israel and the Middle East has a nuclear-weapons capability, that Iraq also is developing nuclear weapons?

ALDOURI: Mr. Novak, I am not a scientist, I am a lawyer. But I think the best one we have to address that question -- to whom we have to address that question is the IIEA. I think those people, the atomic agency in Vienna, they would say exactly what Iraq has, what Iraq doesn't have. And I think they are the best, the best organization to tell United States what's going on in Iraq, because I think that they have been in Iraq several times after '98.

And Mr. Barad (ph), he told us in front of the -- with the presence of the secretary general that there is nothing in Iraq. There is only two or three questions, and we can resolve these questions in the future.

So really, we have no such capability. And United States know better than anyone that we have no such capability.

HUNT: Mr. Ambassador, we're going to have to take a break in about 30 seconds, but let me just ask you quickly, during the Gulf War of 1991, you launched Scud missiles against Israel, even though Israel was not a participant in that war.

If there should be a conflict again, would Iraq attack Israel again?

ALDOURI: I don't think we have a Scud missile, long-range Scud missile. We don't have that. I think we are obliged to have a very short-range missiles. And that would...

HUNT: Would you use them against Israel?

ALDOURI: This is a very short. We cannot reach Israel. Only 150 kilometers, so we have no such capability. HUNT: OK. Well, we're going to take a...

ALDOURI: And we have no intention to do that.

HUNT: We're going to have to take a break now, but when we come back, we'll ask Ambassador Aldouri if war with the United States is inevitable.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NOVAK: Mr. Ambassador, Hans Blix, the head of the U.N. inspection team, gave an interview to a German publication which will be published Monday in which he says that if the Iraqis consider an attack by the United States inevitable, they will not have any interest in inspection. Is Hans Blix correct in that presumption?

ALDOURI: I hope that this war will not happen at all, and we hope that we will finish one day with this question of inspections, and to be in a very normal relationship, not only with the United Nations, but with all other countries, including United States.

But it is a practical question. If there is war, what does inspectors have to do in Iraq? This is a logical question.

NOVAK: Do you consider war inevitable at this point? Do you believe the United States is determined to have a war and there's really no forestalling that?

ALDOURI: Well, we hope really not. We know what is the meaning of the war, and Americans also know exactly what is the meaning of the war. Instead of that, we want to have a very peaceful relations with the United States.

We did offer that to Americans, to have discussion, negotiation in the past. We extended our invitation from our national assembly to the Congress to go to Baghdad with their experts to have a discussion in Baghdad and to know exactly on the ground what is going on.

So we still hope that the United States administration will be wise enough not to launch a war to Iraq. We are a small country, a small people. We aren't threatening anybody, not our neighbors or especially we are not threatening United States interests or United States itself.

So we don't know what are the logic behind this assertion from America and this administration to Iraq.

HUNT: Mr. Ambassador, a top CNN executive, Eason Jordan, was in Baghdad this week, and a ranking Iraqi official said to him that basically he thought that war was inevitable, and he said, "Bring on the United States, we're ready for them," in a bit of macho.

Most military experts, however, say the United States military is far stronger than it was 10 years ago and the Iraqi military is far weaker than it was 10 or 11 years ago.

Wouldn't a war be over very quickly and result in a decisive rout of Iraq and a replacement of your regime?

ALDOURI: I said we want a peaceful solution for our differences between both countries. And certainly, if we would be attacked, we will defend ourselves, and you know what does that mean. That means it is our independence, our sovereignty, our dignity, so we will defend ourselves.

HUNT: Your trade minister this week, Mr. (inaudible), said that it would be another Vietnam for the United States. Is it your belief that the United States would not have the patience for a long war in Iraq?

ALDOURI: Well, really, also, I am not expert in war. But as I told you, we will defend ourselves. But before that, we hope that this war will never occur between United States and Iraq. If that would happen one day, certainly, as I told you, we will defend ourselves.

NOVAK: Mr. Ambassador, one of the reasons that some American officials, many American officials, want to have a regime change in Baghdad is the allegation of a connection between Iraq and the terrorist attacks on the United States. And they point to a meeting between one of the terrorists, Mohammed Atta, in Prague with the head of Iraqi intelligence in the Czech Republic.

If that meeting, certainly, which happened prior to the September 11 attack, of course, surely that the terrorist attack was discussed at that meeting, wasn't it?

ALDOURI: There were, in the past, and still we hear from television, from the media, a lot of business allegations. So I think United States know better than anybody that Iraq has nothing to do with all these terrorist attacks with al Qaeda, with Taliban, with others. We are not in a good term from the beginning, when the United States has been friends with all these people, we have not good relations with them at that time.

So we have no relations at all. This is the Iraqi position, our government, our president, the minister of foreign affairs, and I here, I am here asserting that we have no any kind whatsoever with all those groups and terrorist groups in the world. So these allegations are completely false.

HUNT: Mr. Ambassador, one thing your government has done, including Saddam Hussein, is you have praised the so-called suicidal Palestinian bombers that have killed innocent women, children, Americans as well as Israelis. You've even given bounties, rewards to the families of those suicide bombers. How do you justify that?

ALDOURI: Those are human beings without any resources. Those are out brothers who live in a very difficult situation, and you know that also better than me. So this is our solidarity with our people on Palestine, so certainly we have to give them hand to help them to overcome their problems with these difficulties.

HUNT: Well, Mr. Ambassador, whatever your view on the Israeli- Palestinian issue, aren't you just encouraging more suicidal bombers by that sort of action?

ALDOURI: We are not seeing from this side. We are seeing only our solidarity with our people and Palestine, who are suffering, who need all kind of helps.

HUNT: All right. We're going to take a break right now, but when we come back, we'll have the Big Question for the Iraqi ambassador to the United Nations.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HUNT: And now the Big Question for Ambassador Aldouri.

Mr. Ambassador, this week, the infamous terrorist, Abu Nidal, died in Baghdad. The official initial version was that he had snuck into the country from Iran a year ago, put under house arrest, and then committed suicide, somehow putting six bullets into his own body.

No one believes that version. What happened to Abu Nidal, and why?

ALDOURI: Really, I have only the official version, and you have been aware of that. You have heard about that, and I have nothing to add on the official position.

HUNT: So you have no idea what actually happened to Abu Nidal?

ALDOURI: I have no idea at all, more than what has been said by officially in Iraq.

NOVAK: Mr. Ambassador, Saddam Hussein, in his most recent speech, said that if U.S. troops come to Iraq, they'll be carrying their coffins on their backs. What does that mean, exactly?

ALDOURI: Well, I repeat here that we don't want this war happening at all, and we want that American administration restrain to do that.

What our president said, I think it is very well known by Americans. They have been in Vietnam. They know exactly what is the war. They have been elsewhere, in Somalia and elsewhere. They know exactly what the meaning of the war.

So what our president want to say, that the war is a war. So we will defend ourselves, we will defend our sovereignty, we will defend our people by all means we have, and I mean the war is not such a small thing, a simple thing, that there will be death, there will be killed, there will be a lot of atrocities. And hopefully -- we know what the meaning of the war, we don't want this war.

NOVAK: Ambassador, thank you very much. We appreciate it.

Al Hunt and I will be back with a comment after these messages.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HUNT: Bob, what we heard was the party line, but it's a softer party line than what we've been hearing in Baghdad.

What it may come down to is the evil dictator. Is he going to be the survivor, or will he be the irrational, evil man he was in 1991?

NOVAK: The ambassador said that Iraq would use all means at its disposal to resist invasion. But he said there's not that many means. He said absolutely no nuclear capability, and they don't even have missiles capable of reaching Israel.

HUNT: One thing he said that won't wash is his justification for giving those bounties and rewards to those Palestinian suicide bombers.

But one place he was candid, Bob, when asked about the version that Abu Nidal committed suicide by putting six bullets in him, he said, "All I know is the official version."

NOVAK: I think it's interesting we have here a rather sophisticated lawyer. Doesn't look like the demonized military tyrants we're talking about in Baghdad. I think it's interesting he gives very few interviews. The American people got a chance to see him.

I'm Robert Novak.

HUNT: And I'm Al Hunt.

NOVAK: Coming up at 7:00 p.m. Eastern on Capital Gang, a steady beat of rhetoric on military action against Iraq, an Enron crook cops a plea, and our newsmaker of the week, the head of the CDC, Dr. Julie Gerberding.

HUNT: Thanks for joining us.

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