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Early Start with John Berman and Zoraida Sambolin

Dangerous Standoff in Sydney; Hostages Held in Cafe by Gunman

Aired December 15, 2014 - 05:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Our breaking news this morning: a dangerous standoff in Sydney, Australia. A gunman stormed a shop near the U.S. consulate. Hostages are being held inside as a black flag with Arabic writing hangs in the window. A live report just moments away.

Good morning. Welcome to EARLY START. I'm Christine Romans.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good to see you this morning.

I'm John Berman. It is Monday, December 15th. It is 5:00 a.m. in the East.

We do welcome all of our viewers here in the United States and around the world. We have been following this hostage standoff in Sydney that's now into its 11th hour. An armed man, you can see him right there, holding an unknown number of hostages in a Lindt chocolate shop right in Sydney's central business district. It's a very busy area filled with people who work, filled with tourists.

It is now evening in Australia. So, we are heading into the nighttime hours there as this standoff continues. This is very near the U.S. consulate in Sydney. A spokesperson there says the consulate personnel have been evacuated. All have been accounted for.

President Obama and other world leaders have been briefed on the situation. Unknown now at this point whether any Americans are among the hostages.

Now, we did see images of five people who were inside managed to get out. We do not know if these people managed to escape or they were released. You can see someone right there, but five people did manage to get out of this Lindt chocolate shop during this hostage standoff.

Let's go now to our Anna Coren who joins us live near the scene.

Good morning, Anna, or good evening to you as you head into nighttime there. Give us the since of the latest.

ANNA COREN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, John, it has gone 9:00 p.m. local time. As you can say, this siege has gone into its 11th hour.

There are a number of hostages still inside this cafe. Police refusing to say how many. That has been their line all along. But as you mentioned earlier that five hostages have managed to get away. We don't know if they escaped or if they were released.

We know that police negotiators have been in touch with this armed gunman. Something police have confirmed. He is armed. He was seen walking into the cafe around 9:30 or 9:45 a.m. with a bag and a fact, the member of the public who had reported it and said there was something suspicious about him.

Sure enough, shortly after 10:00 a.m., there were the hostages, many of them holding up this black sign with Arabic writing, an Islamic message with fear on their faces. These are employees, these are customers. It was 10:00 in the morning. Many people on their way to work to get a coffee.

This is also located just a block from where we are standing. Police won't let us go any further from where we are. You see the ambulances lined up parked behind me.

But this cafe is directly opposite a TV station here in Australia. Within that vicinity, as you mentioned, the U.S. consulate is there along with the reserve bank of Australia. This is a financial district, a commercial district, and normally, it would be a very, very busy area.

But police just locked down blocks. They set up a cordon and they evacuated all the buildings, fearing what this gunman would do.

ROMANS: Let's talk about the gunman. He wants -- he is making the demands through hostages who are contacting the media. So, it's kind of a convoluted chain of communication at this point. But these demands include an ISIS flag and he wants to talk to the prime minister.

COREN: Yes, very bizarre demands indeed. As you say, he made through the hostages who contacted a number of local networks. As you say, he wants an ISIS flag. Not much forward planning there.

The other thing he wants to do is he wants to speak to the Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott. The police commissioner in New South Wales held a news conference, Andrew Scipione. He didn't let on to where they're at with this particular gunman.

All they said that they are continuing with these negotiations. They want this to end peacefully. They do not want this to be violent. They do not want bloodshed.

In saying that, we did see a number of police snipers this afternoon get into position. There are hundreds of police here, not just stopping people from getting in, but clearly handling the situation and making sure that they can negotiate and keep dialogue open with this armed gunman and hopefully get these hostages out safely. BERMAN: And, Anna, this is not happening in a complete vacuum as far

as terror concerns go in Australia. The alert level was raised from medium to high this fall. There were terror raids across the country. Tell us what's been going on.

COREN: Absolutely. Australia is part of the war on terror. Obviously, when the United States launched the campaign against ISIS, they called for allies. Australia was one of those -- one of the first to step up.

There are hundreds of Australian troops there in Iraq training the Kurdish forces, as well as Iraqi forces, helping them so they can fight the war against ISIS. The Australian fighter jets involved in the aggressive air campaign in both Iraq and Syria. So, Australia very much, you know, alongside the United States in this war.

And we also have to remember, John, that there are at least known to authorities, 100 Australian citizens who have traveled to this region to fight alongside ISIS. They have joined cause. They have this warped, sick mentality where they want to establish this caliphate in Iraq and Syria.

So, they are the people on the ground there, 100 Australian citizens, let alone supporters here. So, intelligence, you know, law enforcement have been working tirelessly to make sure there hasn't been some sort of plot here in Australia.

There have been numerous raids up and down the east coast of the Australia and a number of arrests. But, clearly, they did not see this gunman. He was not on their radar. Hence, he was able to walk into the cafe in the heart of Sydney and hold this siege, which is now going on for more than 11 hours.

ROMANS: And, Anna, he is using the media in an interesting way. I mean, the cafe, the chocolate shop right across from a major network. A news network, by the way, that had to be evacuated. One reporter who's back there now.

But, right there in those windows, he has access to a major news network. He has been asking the hostages, apparently, to contact the media and make his demands that way. It is a very interesting strategy.

COREN: Yes, a very interesting strategy. I'm not sure how well thought out it is. But as far as choosing that location -- I mean, he is clearly identified that as a place where he can get maximum coverage, opposite a TV station in the heart of the city. He's got that. The world is now watching as to what he does from here on in. We don't know.

Listening to the police conference a little bit earlier, they talked about, you know, people returning to work as if it's a normal day tomorrow. Tuesday morning. Just go to work. There will be exclusion zones set up around the Lindt cafe. There will be cordoned off areas. They will remain cordoned off. So, you get the sense that the siege perhaps is not going to be ending

anytime soon. When we heard from police authorities a little bit earlier, they said they are prepared to let this go for hours if need be. They just don't want to see this turn ugly. They want this to be resolved peacefully. So, hence, we may be here throughout the night and well into tomorrow.

BERMAN: He did made clear that right now it is isolated in the sense their focus is on the chocolate shop. There has been some notion before that there were threats of explosive devices elsewhere in the city. It doesn't seem they have those concerns anymore.

Explain to me how people are reacting on the streets, Anna. I don't think Australia has ever gone through anything quite like this.

COREN: No, absolutely not. The closest we came to terrorism was Bali bombings back in 2002 which you will remember because Americans were involved in that, but 88 Australians were killed in those al Qaeda attacks.

So, as for Australia being involved in the war on terror, that is something we have seen obviously what's going on with ISIS, but also in Afghanistan, and also in Iraq before that. But as for attacks here on the home soil, that has never happened. I think that is just what has shocked many people. When there have been sieges in Australia, they would be domestic related or somebody mentally unwell.

But for this man to be so blatant his sympathy towards ISIS, calling for an ISIS flag. I mean, that just really is repulsive, not just to mainstream Australia, but also to Muslim-Australians. They've spoken out about this. They find this abhorrent and fully support police, and if there is anything that they can do, they are fully on board.

So, this is something that really has caught everybody off guard and as a result, many people now on high alert.

BERMAN: We know the flag, the footage we have from the event earlier, shows a black flag with Arabic writing on it, that the hostage taker apparently has hostages hold up in the window. That flag reads, "There is no god but god and Muhammad is the prophet of god."

You're right, some 40 Australian Muslim groups have decried this hostage-taking, calling a despicable act, Anna.

COREN: Yes, absolutely. And, you know, we are talking about a very small minority. There are many Muslims here in Australia who live very happily, very peacefully. The Islamic faith differently celebrated within Australia. People are allowed to pray. People are allowed to go to their mosques. There is respect.

But there's clearly a small group of the people who are sympathetic to the cause of ISIS, who want to go and join their crusade, who have this warped sick mentality of the world. They are the ones that authorities are keeping a close eye on as are authorities throughout the world. You know, there was a call several months ago by ISIS for those lone

wolf attacks, for sympathizers in countries that joined the fight on ISIS to carry out these lone wolf attacks. So, I think the theory is that perhaps that is what we are witnessing now.

I'm clearly speculating. But certainly speaking to people on the ground here, many of them felt that is exactly what it was.

BERMAN: All right. Our Anna Coren on the streets not far from the Lindt chocolate shop. Anna, we're going to let you get back to reporting and find out what you can. We'll check back in with you in a little bit.

It is about 9:11 p.m. heading into nighttime in Sydney right now.

ROMANS: Reporters in Sydney trying to get what information they can about the story, notably the name of the gunman still yet to be identified.

The offices of 7News were evacuated when the crisis began. That newsroom right down the street from the cafe, a bird's eye view right there of the Lindt coffee shop, the Lindt chocolate shop. One reporter has been allowed to return to the newsroom. Listen to him speak about the situation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS REASON, 7NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Let's start with what we can see of the gunman. He has been clearly identifiable through the last few hours as he paces his way back and forth in front of the four plate glass windows at Lindt Cafe. He's wearing a white shirt, a black cap. He's unshaven and he is carrying what appears to be a pump action shotgun. That gun often coming into the frame of the windows, often close and menacingly close to the hostages themselves.

Let's talk about them as well, Mel. We've counted so far about 15 different faces being forced up against the windows over these last eight or nine hours. Not the 50 that had been speculated earlier. I think that number is wildly inaccurate. We're talking about that number, 15 people. A combination of men and women and young people, but thankfully, no children involved as far as we can tell from our vantage point up here.

Now, you can -- the gunman seems to be sort of rotating these people through the positions on the windows. Their hands and faces up against the glass. One woman we counted was there for at least two hours, an extraordinary agonizing time for her, surely having to stand on her feet for that long.

Some of them have got their heads in their hands like this as they are standing in the windows, Mel. Others look so visibly upset. One woman whose eyes were blood shot red, obviously been crying her eyes out for some time. Who knows what is going through their minds these last few hours, but just a terrifying ordeal of them.

I've got to speculate here, but it would have been more terrifying just two hours ago when we saw that rush of escapees. We could see from up here, at this vantage point, the gunman got extremely agitated as he realized those five had got out. He started screaming orders at the people inside. The hostages remained behind, extremely agitated. We didn't see anything more than that.

We can't swing our camera around from the position to show you those windows directly live, Mel. And the police have been good enough for us to get up here. We're not going to interfere with their tactical operations by doing that. But just -- there is little detail about what can be seen at this time in the siege.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Such a key point. One of the key developments overnight, these five hostages did manage to get out. Whether they escaped, fled, whether they released --

ROMANS: We don't know.

BERMAN: We do not know. They will be able to tell quite a tale of what's going on inside there.

ROMANS: So interesting how they got out. So interesting.

BERMAN: We're going to have much more coming up on the crisis in Sydney. We will talk about what the authorities are saying about the hostage takers and what they learned about the possible motive. That's next.

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ROMANS: Our breaking news this morning, a gunman is holding hostages in the Sydney business district. The number of hostages is not known at this point in a Lindt chocolate shop, not known at this point. People will not say if they do know. They don't want those details out in public.

Five people did manage to get out. Whether they were released or flat out escaped, we do not know. Five people, you can see there, obviously just terrified, getting out of the chocolate shop. The siege began about 11 hours ago. We did hear from one man who happened to be sitting outside the cafe when it all began.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was in the cafe getting a takeaway coffee and then I sat outside the cafe to chat on the phone. In those few minutes that I was on the phone, this unfolded. I don't know if the gunman was in there when I was in the cafe or in a minute or two afterwards. But either way, this unfolded very, very quickly at about 9:35 or 9:40 this morning. Inside that cafe, there was not hint. People were sitting down chatting over coffee going about their normal business.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BERMAN: All right. We do not know a lot right now about the hostage takers. Sky News of Australia reports he has communicated two demands. Whether he did this directly to police or whether through hostages managing to get calls out to media. Those demands from the man calling himself "the brother", by the way, are number one, he wants an ISIS flag delivered to him inside the coffee shop and he wants an opportunity to speak with the Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott.

ROMANS: Now, about a half hour ago, top officials in New South Wales where Sydney is located obviously answered questions at a news conference. They revealed some new details about the hostage standoff. I want you to listen to some of that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDREW SCIPIONE, NEW SOUTH WALES POLICE COMMISSIONER: Our only goal tonight and for as long as it takes, is to get those people that are currently caught in the building out of there safely. That remains our number one priority and nothing will change. I'm sure there are many questions that you might have for us and I'm not going to necessarily be in a position to give you that information because I will not be going into the tactics or strategies that we are employing. Suffice to say that we have large numbers of police, they are in contact and we are working to resolve this just as quickly as we possibly can.

Having said that, I, too, want to thank the community, particularly those people who are in the city today. You acted in a way that made our job a lot easier than it could have been. For that, I want to thank you.

There is much work to be done and more for us to go over the coming hours I'm sure. But again, for those that have loved ones that may be caught up in this and for those that maybe in that particular building, rest assured, we are doing all we can to set you free. We will be looking after your safety as our number one priority.

I'm happy to go to questions. Thank you.

REPORTER: The lights in the cafe. Have you switched them off?

SCIPIONE: I'm not certainly in a position to talk through the tactics or what we're doing or where we are right at this stage, Janet. But certainly when the time is right, we can talk about those.

REPORTER: Has the demeanor of the man changed since the five hostages escaped this afternoon?

SCIPIONE: Well, look, again, what's happening inside those premises are things that will need to be resolved amongst our negotiators. We have the very best negotiators in the world on the job right now. So, at this stage, rather than second-guess or give them anything that might cause some grief for those people that are put in there, we're not in the position to talk any further about that either.

REPORTER: What do you know about the conditions of the hostages inside?

SCIPIONE: Well, I understand that no one has been injured. And for that, if that is true, we are grateful.

REPORTER: Those hostages that come out, what's happening to them? (INAUDIBLE) Have they been asked not to talk about that? (INAUDIBLE)

SCIPIONE: Look, certainly, they will be working with us to assist in making sure that we get a peaceful outcome in this particular event.

But the one thing I can say is if people are being contacted by hostages, particularly the media, we'd ask you put those people and ask them to ensure the man inside speaks to police, speak to trained negotiators. They are the people that can resolve this, that can help in this situation. And, certainly, they are available and would be looking to talk to the man that certainly has gotten control of that particular building right now.

REPORTER: Has he been known to police?

SCIPIONE: Beg your pardon?

REPORTER: Has he been known to police?

SCIPIONE: We won't go into the details about who is in there, how many are in there. We are not in the position to do that at the moment.

REPORTER: Do you know who is in there?

SCIPIONE: Certainly at this stage, we are putting that picture together. But at this stage, in terms of numbers, who they might be, we are not in liberty to go into that information.

REPORTER: Can you tell us those five people, did they escape or were they released?

SCIPIONE: Again, they are out of the building. And at this stage, rather than talk about how that happened, we are just pleased to see them out.

REPORTER: Do you have any idea or anything you can tell us about the motivation at this stage that (INAUDIBLE)

SCIPIONE: Look, again, at this stage, motive, there are many out there that would be surmising. In fact, there are many out there that are guessing.

And at this stage, we are not in the business of speculating, we are in the business of investigating. And so, we will continue this investigation. We'll get to the bottom of it. And at this stage, again, all I can assure you is we are doing absolutely all we can and we will do even more to guarantee the safe release of those people.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROMANS: That is the priority. The safe release of those people.

More on the breaking news after the break. We're going to speak with the police reporter in Australia for some context on this hostage standoff there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROMANS: An armed gunman is holding hostages in Sydney's central business district. The number of hostages being held in this Lindt chocolate shop still unknown. But we have seen five people escape the shop. We don't know if they were let go or they managed to escape.

The siege now begun some 11 hours ago and we are hearing about some bizarre demands from the gunman, including he would like an ISIS flag delivered and he would like to speak with the Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott.

BERMAN: I want to bring in Tiffany Genders. She is a police reporter for 2GB Radio in Australia.

Tiffany, we have been following developments all morning, hearing in the police officials, also from the premier of the state of New South Wales. What are you hearing on the ground this morning?

TIFFANY GENDERS, 2GB RADIO (via telephone): Well, the real concern is that we are stretching into nighttime here and almost into the 12th hour of the ordeal.

The real concern now is for the people that remain trapped inside the building. Many hostages are contacting people and sending messages out through Facebook and social media, text messages. They have been allowed to hold on to their mobile phones. Their messages, they are not sure how long they can take this anymore and police -- can police negotiate with this man, which they are doing and doing very well. That is their top priority.

But the messages we are getting from the hostages tonight repeatedly. They are getting very frantic and panicked and very upset.

ROMANS: The messages the hostages are sending out. What are they saying about the mental state of the gunman? What is he asking for? I mean, clearly, he is still awake. It has been 12 hours now.

You know, what about the mental state of the gunman?

GENDERS: Look, they haven't said too much about the gunman. They say that he is armed with a gun.

Actually at the moment, I'm not sure what's happened in the cafe, but all the lights in the cafe have been turned off. Police won't confirm if that was an operational thing from their point of view or whether that was something that was done by the gunman himself.

But, you know, as you have just reported on, the man is asking for Islamic State flag to be brought in and to speak directly with Prime Minister Tony Abbott. BERMAN: We did hear from the police commissioner of New South Wales

who wanted to send, it seems, a very clear message to the people inside, maybe in response to those messages they're posting on social media.

He said, "Our only goal is to get you out safely." That was interesting to hear. He also spoke to people who have been receiving some of these messages on social media, whether it be Twitter or Facebook or elsewhere saying, hey, look, put us -- put the police in touch with those inside. It is the police, the trained negotiators, who should be speaking with the people inside that room particularly the hostage taker.