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Early Start with John Berman and Zoraida Sambolin

Massive Manhunt for Gunmen; Hamyd Mourad in Police Custody for Terror Attack; Suspects Most Likely Received Training

Aired January 08, 2015 - 04:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Our breaking news this morning: a massive manhunt for the gunmen behind the massacre at a French magazine, 12 people murdered, 10 more injured.

This morning, several people being questioned by police. But the search is on for these gunmen. Who are they? How did they do it? And why?

We are live on the scene with team developments and new developments overnight, starting right now.

Welcome back to EARLY START. I'm Christine Romans.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm John Berman.

Thirty minutes past the hour right now.

ROMANS: Breaking overnight, several people are now in custody in the worst terror attack in France in recent history. Twelve people killed in the attack on the satirical, French satirical magazine "Charlie Hebdo." Eleven more wounded.

One eyewitness calling the scene a massacre, after the attack, one that was apparently carefully planned. The suspect jumped in the car, drove away, sparking a huge manhunt from three suspects stretching from the scene in Paris to the city of Reims, 90 miles away.

BERMAN: Overnight, France's interior minister announced that there are now, quote, "several detentions" in connection with the shooting.

One suspect named earlier by police is now in police custody. That's 18-year-old Hamyd Mourad. He turned himself in. That's according to the AFP, the news agency there. Could he have been the driver, the getaway driver in the car? That's one of the questions they're asking.

Police say two older suspects, the main suspects in the shooting are brothers, Cherif and Said Kouachi. They are said to be heavily armed and said to be on the run right now.

With the latest, let's turn to our senior international correspondent Frederik Pleitgen, who is in Paris.

Good morning, Fred.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, good morning, John and Christine.

And we are outside of that satirical magazine "Charlie Hebdo", which, of course, is where the awful attack happened yesterday, in the morning hours. What's going on right now here is that, of course, there is a big gathering here. There's a lot of media here. There's a lot of people coming by to lay flowers, to pay their respects. A lot of people we have seen with tears in their eyes.

The area is, of course, still cordoned off because this is, of course, now a crime scene that is handled by forensic teams of the French authorities.

Now, I want to bring you up to speed on all the developments that have been happening, because there is actually quite a lot that's going on in regards to this manhunt and also in regards to the suspects that are being sought. One of the things that we have early this morning is that there was apparently a shooting in the southern suburb of Paris called Porte de Chatillon. The latest we have is that one man is in custody after that.

From our own Jim Bittermann, we know that what happened is there was a traffic inspection somewhere. A car stopped. A man came out with an assault rifle and opened fire on police. At some point, apparently, he was brought into custody. What Jim said this man was apparently dressed in black. So, exactly the same way as the two people two committed the crime here outside the building of "Charlie Hebdo."

We are still waiting for additional details. We do have crews on the scene to that area right now to try and find out more.

In regard to the manhunt for the two people who are still being sought after by the French authorities, the two men, Cherif and Said Kouachi, what we know is that overnight, the operations centered in the town of Reims, which is 90 miles north of Paris. There was a huge police sweep of special police unit that went through that town. They were going house to house.

As you said, several people were taken into custody. Some were saying that it was around seven people that were taken into custody. The latest that we have is apparently these are family members and associates of these two people who are still at large.

There was a press availability earlier this morning by the French prime minister, Mr. Valls, who said the suspects are still on the loose, that they are potentially heavily armed and that anybody who tries to get in their way is at great risk. Of course, one of the things that we saw on the video emerging of the attack is that these people certainly appear to know what they were doing when they were firing the weapons and when they were moving around with their weapons.

One of the things they managed to stage was also that getaway, even though the manhunt at that point was already underway.

So, certainly, these are people who appear to be very brutal, who certainly know how to handle weapons. This is one of the reasons why the French authorities are urging great caution if anybody appears to see these people somewhere around.

So, it is something where the manhunt is still going on. At the same time, the city of Paris is in a state of mourning. Today is a day of mourning at 12:00, at midday. There is going to be a moment of silence for those killed in these attacks -- John and Christine.

ROMANS: It's really incredible. I mean, it's an attack that strikes at the heart of what France is and what journalism is.

And I am reminded so much, Fred, of what it felt like in Boston a couple of years ago, when you have two men on the loose, even as you try to mourn, people were terrified.

PLEITGEN: Yes. You are absolutely right. Boston was one of the things that came to mind as I was walking the streets here in Paris earlier today. What you do have is you have a city, we can't say that it's not on the edge, but there is growing concern.

When you look around and you do see an additional presence of security forces on the ground. Anybody who visits Paris frequently, you know there are often soldiers on the ground here, especially in front of landmarks like, for instance, the Eiffel Tower, the parliament building, but they are that much more heavily armed, and there are more of them.

For instance, you see cops walking around with pistols normally, and maybe smaller submachine guns. Now, you have them walking around with assault rifles, because, of course, one of the things that apparently happened here as the shooting unfolded was that the police officers who were on duty, some of them had been -- the personal protection officers of the cartoonists who had been under threat by organizations like ISIS for a very long time, they were simply outgunned. The people simply had more firepower than the police trying to protect these people.

So, at this point, you're absolutely right. You do have an air of sadness, a very heavy feeling.

One of the people that I spoke to yesterday at a vigil in support of this magazine, and, of course, against terrorism, was saying he feels exactly the same way that he did on 9/11. And he was quick to tell me he did not want to equate these things because he knew that 9/11, of course, the magnitude was much greater.

But he said that the feeling is a very similar one. It's a very sad feeling. It's a very heavy feeling. But the same time, it's also a very defiant feeling that you had from people here on the ground who said they're not going to let their life be influenced by all of this.

One of the great things that happened at that vigil that I was at last night was that you had people screaming freedom, which is, of course, a very big value in France. But at some point, the crowd went silent and everybody held up their pens to show that the pen will not be silent by the violence that happened here only yesterday, Christine.

BERMAN: Indeed, it will not. Frederik Pleitgen for us in Paris, thank you so much.

For more now on the attack, I want to bring in Haras Rafiq. He's the managing director of Quilliam Foundation. The think tank dedicated to reducing terrorism.

Haras, thank you for being with us.

I know your group and you in particular has done a lot of work looking at self starters. People who may be in countries with no direct ties to terror groups like al Qaeda or ISIS. We don't know what happened here. We don't know if the Kouachi brothers, the suspects had any contact with al Qaeda or ISIS. But based on what you see, are there any signs?

HARAS RAFIQ, QUILLIAM FOUNDATION: Yes, there are a number of indicators here, a number of things that have gone wrong. First of all, we know that one of the brothers was arrested and charged and convicted for tying to send people to Iraq and Syria, to Iraq especially. We also know that -- and we have know that both of these guys have probably been out to the Middle East and received some training.

We don't know which organization they received training from, but certainly, we haven't got -- France hasn't got to the bottom of how they failed in terms of combating the ideology that driven the people to carry out what they have done. And also, they never have gotten to the bottom of the two people they knew were a danger and menace so society. They never formulated a strategy in how they could actually de-radicalize and rehabilitate these guys.

So, yes, certainly, there are some very, very clear links to the jihadi organization. It's not quite clear whether it's al Qaeda or ISIL at this moment of time. But certainly, we know that the ideology links are there and probably, they visited training camps. At least one of them, if not both have visited training camps in the Middle East.

ROMANS: One of the things about the ideology that I just -- it's so hard to wrap your mind around is the intellectual inconsistencies of the whole thing. I mean, these guys attacked this magazine, and now, more people in the world have seen what they think, you know, are the insults to Islam than would have otherwise seen. You know what I mean? I mean, trying to wrap your mind around why they choose these sites to bomb or -- bombed it before or to murder there.

You know, help me understand what they're thinking.

RAFIQ: You know, ultimately, these terrorists want to create fear and panic within our liberal secular democracies. They want to show that they are able to fight back against what they perceive is a war against Islam. This particular target that they chose, there is no real intellectual thinking around what would happen after they selected this target. Nor do they really care. Ultimately, they wanted to make a statement.

I mean, if you look how sad this is, they wanted to carry out this attack in the name of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, and yet they killed a police officer who was actually named after the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him.

There are a lot of inconsistencies. These people have been brainwashed and almost see things in a tunnel-like view. There are, you know, inconsistencies that we know that are there. And it is not really sane behavior.

BERMAN: Haras, you talked about the failures to sort of see these two brothers over time. France has over 5 million-plus Muslims. The vast, vast majority living peacefully and happily or some are living happily within French society. In the French intelligence service is known of having good sources and being very connected to whatever militancy groups that are there.

So, how did they miss it?

RAFIQ: Well, I'm not sure they missed it. But there has to be two very clear parts to the strategy. The first one is that looking at the hard end, looking at people once they've expressed support for violence, to some form or another. There has to be an intervention, either de-radicalization or rehabilitation or in the case of these two people, if they have the intelligence, and they knew they were going to carry out attacks, they have to have to be arrests quickly.

The other part of the strategy has to be the building of the resilience so that when youngster, you mentioned 5 million Muslims in France, when a very small minority of these youngsters are faced with the Islamist Salafi jihadi ideology and theology, they've got the resilience to push back.

And this really needs to happen from mainstream society. I think France has a whole problem on trying to understand what to do with religion and faith. To many of these people, and to many Muslims, faith -- their faith is very important.

And they need to be able to figure out a way and how they can actually help the society at large differentiate between the faith Islam and political ideology that is Islamism, which is a totalitarian, fascist ideology that needs the same response that fascism and other -- communism and racism and totalitarian ideologies receive from France and from the rest of us.

BERMAN: Haras Rafiq, thanks so much for being with us this morning. Appreciate it.

ROMANS: All right. Forty-two minutes past the hour.

The Obama administration condemning the deadly terror attack in France and offering its support. The White House releasing this photo of President Obama speaking on the phone with French President Hollande.

CNN's Michelle Kosinski has more on the formal U.S. response.

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MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, John and Christine.

Well, we heard from the president and White House officials several times in the aftermath of these attacks, in strongly worded statements. The president called this attack horrific, evil and cowardly.

So, we know that they're on this. They are monitoring it closely, and maybe most importantly, offering France whatever assistance it might need.

What we're not hearing from just yet, from the White House or national security team any detail on what exactly the White House might have known about any of these suspects, anything about any chatter that may have been going on in the background leading to this. It's just too early for them to weighing in on that kind of detail.

Also, they didn't want to get too much detail on exactly the kind of assistance that the U.S. is offering. I mean, several times we heard from the Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson, and he would only say that the U.S. is doing a number of things to help France. We did hear from the FBI, though, saying that they were combing through databases to try to help the French gather information, look for connections and they did say that top security officials are in open and constant communication with their French counterparts.

We also heard from the White House press secretary saying he knew of no specific threat or credible information to indicate that any similar attacks are being planned in the U.S., but he did emphasize the importance of vigilance, especially when U.S. officials are concerned about lone wolf attacks and how hard they are to prevent -- John and Christine.

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ROMANS: Michelle Kosinski from the White House, thank you for that.

BERMAN: One of the big questions being faced right now is what will the response in the Middle East, in the Muslim world be. We'll pick up that angle, next.

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ROMANS: Breaking news this morning. Police in France now have several people in custody in connection with the country's worst terror attack in recent memory. France's interior minister not specifying how many or exactly why they are being held. But he says a huge manhunt is still under way to track down two masked gunmen who stormed the Paris office of the satire magazine "Charlie Hebdo", targeting their victims by name. When they sped off minutes later, 12 cartoonists, police and others were dead.

Police are pursuing three suspects. The youngest 18-year-old Hamyd Mourad has turned himself in. Two more are brothers, Said and Cherif Kouachi. They are still on the loose.

Police efforts appear to focus on the northern French city of Reims.

BERMAN: So, it does as if this attack was carried out by two men, two Muslims, in the name of Islam -- a twisted, perverted view of what Islam should be.

So, the question is this morning -- what's the reaction in the Muslim world? From leaders in the Muslim world.

Let's go now to Abu Dhabi, CNN's Becky Anderson joins us now live.

Good morning, Becky.

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

This, of course, the Arab Muslim -- well, 350 million Arab Muslims around the world, and other some 900 non-Arab Muslims. We must remember that.

John, thank you, from here in Abu Dhabi, in the United Arab Emirates, to Cairo to Tel Aviv, regionally, this is condemning in the very early hours, what many are calling a barbaric act of terrorism and shock, dismay, and a sense of anger, John, by many across this region.

But once again, the actions of a small radical group have tarnished the image of Islam and of Muslim. Have a look at this cartoon posted on Twitter by a Khalid Al-Bai (ph), a Qatar-based Sudanese cartoonist. Sad khartoon with the "KH", he says, playing on the name of the Sudanese capital, with a Muslim man seeming being accused of aligning with the, quote, "infidels" on the left, and at the same time, accuse of being a terrorist by the depiction of what is the world on the right. Caught right in the middle, I am a Muslim, the picture suggests, flashing out a sense of identity crisis, John, that you hear voice here.

In many quarters in the Middle East, there's no doubt that some of "Hebdo's" satire was offensive to people across the Middle East and North Africa. And to be quite frank, there are those extremist elements that would have seen the magazine as a legitimate target.

But the majority of people here are sickened by what has happened in Paris. Another cartoon, this time portraying the idea that the attack on the Paris offices of the satirical magazine is an attack on the mosque drawn to the right of the offices and this cartoon from the Brazilian covers Middle Eastern affairs. "Charlie Hebdo" attack another victim, it says. The victim being the mosque drawn behind the building.

Remember that many governments in the Middle East including here in the UAE are taking a leading role in the fight against ISIS and other groups that promote radical brand of Islam. Joined us a couple of days ago, the Egyptian president Abdul Fatah Al-

Sisi announced what he called a religion revolution to tackle extremism, his government at the same time accused of strong arm tactic against those who disagree with their stunt. So, it's a very difficult situation for many people in this region watching what unfolded in Paris.

And you have the juxtaposition with the fight of radical Islam from the governments here and the sense of its legitimatization of security by many people who just live a normal life out here -- John.

BERMAN: Very important to hear these reactions. And I have to say, these cartoons that we are seeing from around the world are so incredibly moving.

Becky Anderson, thank you so much.

ROMANS: All right. A show of support for victims of the massacre around the world on the ground and online. France's president declaring today as a day of mourning. How people are paying tribute, after the break.

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BERMAN: So many people around the world standing with the victims of the terror attack on "Charlie Hebdo." Solidarity rallies were held in French cities, also across Europe. Also, South America, Brazilians took to the streets in Sao Palo. They were holding up signs wherever people hear the local phrase for "I am Charlie." See right there, "Je Suis Charlie", that's French for "I am Charlie", if you didn't know.

They lit candles at a vigil in Geneva to remember those who were killed, beautiful. At a rally outside the French embassy in Madrid, it was organized by the group Reporters Without Borders. In the U.S., people gathering in Boston with "Not afraid", and we saw that sign in Paris as well, and in Washington, D.C., a group of people rallied outside the newseum.

ROMANS: To show of solidarity for the victims on social media, and the hours, actually the minutes following the midday attack. There have been over -- more than 2.2 million tweets featuring the #jesuischarlie, I am Charlie.

People expressing outrage, demanding terrorists -- no free speech will never been taken from them.

For that part of the story, let's get right to Issa Soares, live for us in London.

And this was an attack, I mean, make no mistake: this is an attack on the very foundation of freedom. Freedom of expression -- all of the other freedoms stem from that.

ISA SOARES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom of liberty. Good morning, Christine. Yes, people have been expressing their shock and their horror over what's happened. And they've also been showing quite importantly that we know, their solidarity with the victims. The hashtag that John was mentioning that was used and a rallying call around the world is #jesuischarlie.

And if I show this map, the tweets coming in, 969 tweets per minute. You see the intensity there in the blue. Europe waking up, 10:00 in London, almost 11:00 in Paris. Just really goes to show how much people are talking about this story.

Also what we are seeing is the #weareCharlie. Now, one of the most popular pictures on Instagram and one that's being tweeted and retweeted is this heart breaking one here behind me.

This was posted by Elsa Wolinski. She is the daughter of Georges Wolinski. He was killed on Wednesday. The photo as you can see, Christine, shows an empty desk where he used to draw. (SPEAKING FRENCH). It translates to "Dad is gone, but not Wolinski."

And very quickly, we are seeing cartoons from our iReporters coming in. This is Je Suis Charlie. We show the next one as well, that one.

And two from our own correspondents. Very quickly if we can get to it, Jake Tapper drew this one. We have one, beautiful one, from also, from Tom Foreman. "Thinking of our friends across the way" -- Christine and John.

ROMANS: OK. Thanks so much for that, Isa.

BERMAN: It's so nice to see that art, simply put, you can't crush an idea.

ROMANS: Yes, breaking news this morning. A death for hunt of those gunmen in that deadly Paris terror attack.

EARLY START continues right after this break.

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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ROMANS: Breaking news this morning: two terrorists on the run, wanted in the deadly attack on the French satirical magazine.