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Early Start with John Berman and Zoraida Sambolin

Manhunt in Paris Now Focused Near Airport; Unconfirmed Hostage Situation; Police Believe They Have Surrounded Terrorists

Aired January 09, 2015 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. The breaking news this morning: police have been speeding along a convoy here on a highway near Charles de Gaulle Airport following a shootout just northeast of Paris.

Officials tell CNN that they have now surrounded, surrounded an area. They believe that the gunmen in this week's terror attack may be located. There is an operation ongoing right now. We have all the developments this morning.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: A lot unfolding right now, a lot of moving parts. As the search, the manhunt for these two suspects begins and continues here.

I'm Christine Romans. You are watching EARLY START. Four a.m. in the East.

BERMAN: All right. So, we want to get straight to France. Isa Soares and Jim Bittermann joining us right now.

We've been watching a flurry of developments over just the last few minutes. Police speeding along a highway near Charles de Gaulle Airport. Information that the interior minister says that the suspects in the terror attacks have been surrounded perhaps in some kind of a factory. There have also been reports that have been unconfirmed of some kind of hostage incident as well.

Isa, what do we know at this moment?

ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John. Good morning, Christine.

Lots of moving parts in the last five minutes or so, and we want to break it down for you and be clear exactly about what is happening, because at the moment, what we do not know is whether this is all one incident or whether this is -- we're talking about three different incidents happening, separate incidents.

So, what we do know and we have confirmed, the first part is that French police has indeed surrounded an area where they believe the terrorists are located. This information has come from the French interior minister who spoke recently in the last few hours or so, I think less than few hours, a couple minutes ago. Our affiliate BFM, we were hearing correspondent basically was saying

that listening to the interior minister and his message, it seems like perhaps they have got the suspects. We do not know. We have not confirmed that. That's the number one.

This is the area, this is all taking place in Dammartin-en-Goele. I don't know if we have the map to show you exactly what area we're talking about, but this is the north, this is the north of Paris. So, pretty similar area that we have seen in the last -- we've seen police really focusing on.

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Police have been focusing on, and one of the things that our colleagues at BFM are reporting that the two brothers were seen with their masks off and were identified, and that they may have taken another car. They may have carjacked another car to drive to this area. They are now believed to be in this factory where the police are -- have surrounded.

The only thing we really know for sure is that the interior minister states the SWAT teams are in operation in this area, in Dammartin-en- Goele, specific, it's the town which is north and east of the airport, by quite some distance north and east of the airport. One of the things that makes this confusing is we are getting different reports. And it may be all the same event.

SOARES: Absolutely. So, just to be clear, what we heard and we have confirmed, French police have surrounded an area by Dammartin-en- Goele, as Jim was saying is an area believed that terrorists where they located -- the suspects are to located, pardon me. And that came from the French interior minister.

Alongside that is exactly what Jim was mentioning is the reports of the hostages being held in a factory. We also have seen and we also have seen in the last few minutes, a car chase northeast of Paris. What airport is this near? Are we talking Roissy Airport?

BITTERMANN: Yes, Roissy Charles de Gaulle. I mean, all of this is north and east of Paris. So, it's hard to know what these reports and how they are linked together.

One of the things, by the way, that the interior minister said is that they have because of some of the detective work, they have been able to track down, they think, the shooter involved in the Montrouge shooting. This is where the young policewoman was killed yesterday morning patrolling -- doing the traffic patrol. She was killed by someone who jumped out of the car and shot her.

The police say they have confidence that they have some degree of confidence they will find that shooter. So, at one point here, we had three gunmen on the loose. Maybe we are closing in.

SOARES: Maybe we're closing in. The pressure is there. They have been making mistakes.

We have seen some 80,000 police, you know, within the country trying to track this down. This is a huge manhunt, Jim. I mean, the police, we are talking about special forces, almost like a military operation.

BITTERMANN: Well, it is and these are militarily trained police. They're still under police category, they're not official military. But they've certainly gone through military training. They've got armored cars, they've got all the sort of equipment that you have in the military unit, including helicopters.

We have seen helicopter in this video that has come out live from the field. There is a helicopter circling the area where they are in action. So, we're just going to have to see how that plays out. And we'll see what happens.

SOARES: And the helicopter, that was the last time the police seems to have sighted these two brothers. That was yesterday -- that was before we heard that they went to petrol station and they then threatened the gentleman there. They wanted gas. They wanted food. He was unharmed, thankfully.

But they are making mistakes, aren't they, Jim? I mean, we've seen obviously the first day, they left ID card, they left identity. And now, we have also seen they are fret, major fret, because we have seen some petrol left in the car, some containers. It points to the fact they could be creating sort of explosions or explosives, explosions there. That is a huge concern.

BITTERMANN: Right. I think they were talking about Molotov cocktails. They may have been wanting to blow up the car, too, which is that they have been to destroy the evidence of the car, and they didn't just get around doing that when they abandoned the car.

But in any case, they made a number of mistakes, including the one being that they left their ID card, one of the brothers left the ID card back in the car, which is why police have been able to identify these people so fast.

In any case, I think that this hunt has been based on the fact these guys were very professional in the way they carried out the attack. Everybody thought military-type training and we were part of that, sort of saying they were trained very professionally. Very clearly in the post-attack procedures and proceedings, they have not shown themselves very well thought out. I don't think they thought this out. I mean, they had to hit a gas station to get food. That says somebody they are desperate and they have not thought it through as far as they might have.

What they are doing now, it sounds like desperation, too, if this is them which have taken hostages. It's like a last desperate move. It is a very dangerous situation, I would say, especially if hostages are involved. It could be dangerous.

SOARES: And, Christine and John, this is a huge area we are talking about. You know, we are focusing -- at least we are focusing in the northeast, pretty much side by side with the two towns. This is a huge area. And that initial area we are talking about yesterday we saw the helicopter, it's so muddy. There's so much forest. We're not talking about a small town. We are talking about farms. And, you know, with this weather, I'm sure they will make mistakes,

they slip up. They will make mistakes and the pressure is getting to them. And it seems that police putting that pressure on them and they will not -- they will not relax until they have caught those brothers -- Christine and John.

ROMANS: Let's talk about the reports of the hostage situation. I know, Jim, you are monitoring the radio and you're monitoring affiliate BFM there and the reporters who are on the scene. Do we think the convoy of police vehicles are on their way to address that situation? What do we know exactly?

I know it's unfolding just within the last few moments. What can you tell us about this potential hostage situation?

BITTERMANN: I think what we are seeing in the convoy, anyway. I think we're seeing something that was recorded. I don't think these are live pictures.

We did see live pictures a moment ago which showed helicopters hovering over what looked like kind of a farm house or factory or something like that.

And the hostage-taking incident, we don't know. That has not been confirmed. It sounds like it's the same thing. It sounds like we are talking about the same thing. We really don't know.

There are also reports out there that perhaps, at least some on the social media, there are some reports that people may have been injured. So, we'll be taking a look at that. But I think we have to let this play out a bit. We really don't know at this point what we can confirm and not confirm. Those pictures you are showing are recorded from earlier. We saw those earlier.

SOARES: Early this morning, yes, indeed.

ROMANS: There are also have some French radio reports of injuries as well.

BERMAN: Let's bring people up to speed on what we do know.

The French Interior Ministry has said and we have confirmed this is from them directly that they have surrounded the suspects. Now, we presume that is in the area northeast of Paris that Jim and Isa have been talking about. They say they have surrounded the suspects. There's an operation ongoing right now.

In addition to that, we have pictures that Jim and Isa have been talking about, of what look like a car chase. But it could have just been police moving rapidly to get somewhere, some type of situation. Is it that area where the interior ministry said they surrounded the terrorists? We are not sure at this moment.

And then there is a third incident that may or may not be connected. There are these reports that a hostage has been taken. A flurry of activity right now coming after a night of a lot of reporting activity.

CNN confirming that at least one of these brothers, said Kouachi had traveled to Yemen as recently as 2011, may have received training in small arms fire, operational training, and then traveled back to France. Now, did he meet senior, you know, al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, who was killed by the United States a few hours ago -- we don't know that just yet. But that is one of the key questions we are facing here.

Guys, I want to get back to you on the ground in Paris, if I can -- Isa and Jim. This ongoing situation, perhaps, as the interior ministry said surrounding these suspects right now. You say this is all the same general area that we have been talking about for the last day. I wonder if you can give me more specifics.

There's that gas station where these men seemed to have robbed the clerk and stolen gas and money and food and run off. There's the town of Longport, which there was this operation yesterday. Police moving in there. Is this all in the same general vicinity?

BITTERMANN: Generally, yes. I mean, one of the things that we were thinking yesterday was that perhaps they were trying to head for the Belgium border, which if they continued further north and east, they would have hit the Belgium border. The area we are talking about is the French authorities have raised the threat level, the area is a huge region of France, and it would be hundreds and hundreds of square miles.

But generally speaking, we're talking about an area that is north and east of the Charles de Gaulle airport. That's why this makes the reporting so confusing. The three reports that may be the same event, shots fired in a car chase, police in action as the interior minister confirmed in this council of Dammartin-en-Goele, which is north and east of the airport, and in the hostage-taking. So, to what extent they are playing in the same event, we're not sure at this point, but it could be.

SOARES: And this area is quite a large area. Very much, it's not a small town here. We are talking woodland and especially in the Dammartin-en-Goele, that area, that would be very difficult for the authorities to reach. Clearly, they are on their tail.

BITTERMANN: Right. And they apparently, according to one report from our colleagues at BFM, said they had seen, they had identified with their masks off as they had taken another car when they took another car and sped away early this morning. So, there is another positive identification as of today.

SOARES: So, no masks, but wearing the same clothes?

BITTERMANN: That's not clear.

SOARES: OK, OK. This is a huge area. What we know is Dammartin-en- Goele is north and northeast. We have further, further northeast, we have that an area that the French police were looking at and if you go further south and west of that, you have the airport really. So, it is all that kind of region. What we don't know at this stage,

pardon me, whether they are talking about one incident or three separate incidents.

BITTERMANN: Right, exactly, and we have to wait and see. You can see from the maps I think the area we are talking about.

SOARES: Yes, absolutely. You know, John and Christine, this is something Jim and I have been talking about this for the past four hours or so. We were talking about this time yesterday. There was a lot of activity. There were some questioning is nothing really happening? Have they lost them?

But there is so much we do not know because there is so much they are not sharing with us.

BITTERMANN: Right, exactly. I think it is part of the strategy. They don't want us saying something on the air that perhaps the suspects would hear and allow them to then take a different course of action or move to a different area or something like that.

So, I think they especially have kept us in the task because they think that is the best thing to do at this point.

(CROSSTALK)

ROMANS: These two very dangerous men are still on the loose.

These two very dangerous men are still on the loose, that, I think, is what is the news here. You have very rapidly changing developments. It looks as though progress to getting them cornered, according to the Interior Ministry, a lot of separate police activity that may or may not be connected. But two very, very dangerous men, we know the suspects. They are suspected of gunning down 12 people.

We know that they are desperate. They have stolen food. They have potentially petrol or gasoline that they could use for Molotov cocktails.

This is still a very dangerous situation. And now, we may have a hostage situation on top of that. We don't have confirmation of that. Yes, but I think it just illustrates how dangerous they still are.

BERMAN: Guys, let me jump in here.

We have Atika Shubert on the phone with us. Atika is on the way to the scene. This is the town of Dammartin-en-Goele, which the interior minister of France says they have the suspects surrounded.

Atika Shubert is on the way right now.

Atika, can you hear me?

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Yes, I do hear you. To be honest, the situation is still very fluid in Dammartin-en-Goele. We are on the way. We know that apparently they took a car and may have a hostage. There

is also a report from a local media that possibly several people have been killed and injured in a shootout.

Now, we do not have that confirmed. We are calling around to hospitals who have heard and are prepared to take people in. But so far, no confirmation of those anyone injured or killed at this point.

Now, we were there overnight nearby the area. It's a very heavily forested area. But when we left at around 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning last night, helicopters were still in the air and the search seemed to be suspended because all of the investigation teams seem to have left the area.

But they sort of know more or less knew where they were in the Dammartin-en-Goele area is about 30 kilometers south of where they were searching yesterday.

BERMAN: And, Atika, you are headed their right now. Yesterday, you saw a huge police presence where you were.

At this point, as you move ever closer, is this an area right now where there is already a law enforcement presence?

SHUBERT: Yes, what we saw last night and what we see more this morning is the increased police presence on every highway, every road leading up to the area. They are checking the cars going through and waiting to see if any cars are coming out of the area.

The troops, clearly, trying to close in on the suspects but I should point, there have been reports that they are hold up in the area of Dammartin-en-Goele. We do not know that for sure. But if they have a car, they could be on the move. There has been helicopter circling overhead.

So, it's all very fluid. We are still trying to nail down details. But it does appear that they have been sighted and there is a possibility they have taken a hostage and people injured in that area of Dammartin-en-Goele.

ROMANS: When you have rapidly developing news events like this, often, the information can be chaotic and it can be contradictory. We are seeing a lot of different reporting. Some saying that there are injuries and fatalities and hostage situations. Now, others saying no, there is not. The prosecutor's office telling "Reuters" no, there has not been a fatality. There will be a lot of conflicting information until this has ended and sorted through. Of course, that is always the nature of a breaking news situation.

But what we can tell you is that there are rapidly changing developments. The interior minister's office in Paris is saying that they believe these two men have been located, and they are very closing the net on these men.

BERMAN: The word they used is surrounded. They surrounded the suspects. There is a police operation under way. That is what the interior ministry is telling us.

Let's separate what we know and what we don't know or what's being reported. What we know is the interior minister says, they have these suspects, you're looking at them right now. Said and Cherif Kouachi right now surrounded. It is happening in an operation in the town of Dammartin-en-Goele, which is northeast of Paris right now.

Our Atika Shubert is headed to that scene right now, reporting a large police presence on the road trying to keep cars away from that area. There are reports now -- this is what we do not know for sure -- there are reports that there was a hostage taken, at least one hostage taken in this situation.

There are reports -- again, we do not know. It is not confirmed that there have been shootings and people wounded in this situation. So, a lot going on right now that still needs confirmation.

Atika, you said that you saw this huge police presence yesterday. It seemed to melt away a little bit in your eyes, but, you know, we don't know what we don't know in this situation.

Now, obviously, ramping up again with enormous intensity.

SHUBERT: Yes, I mean, I think what happened yesterday, they thought they had them in a particular area. So, then we saw heavily armed police doing house-to-house searches in the village of Longport. But it did not appear anything was found. And there's a very heavily forested area that surrounds the village in that area.

And then what we saw with helicopters with the combing through overhead and trying to find what they could. But, again, it is very easy to hide in this area. This is very slow going.

And so, a lot of those SWAT teams, which probably would not have been that useful in a large area. We're talking thousands of acres. They were sort of pulled out. We saw them leaving in a big convoy. And the helicopters increased search overnight.

Now, what seems to have happened this morning is this incident where they appear to have hijacked a car. Police can now mobilize their tactical units and SWAT teams, and really isolate where they are.

ROMANS: Atika?

SHUBERT: Do they still have that car, are they mobile or are they pinned down in a particular location?

ROMANS: Atika, I want to give you the latest from the French media. The French media are reporting that one or more hostages are being held in at a business in Dammartin-en-Goele that's near the Charles de Gaulle Airport. French media is saying that one or more hostages are being held at a business. We've heard reports it is a factory, but in that town, Dammartin-en-Goele.

If there is a hostage situation, that really changes the dynamic here from what becomes a chase to some sort of a negotiation. SHUBERT: Exactly. What we were seeing yesterday was a manhunt. They

were simply trying to close the net. If they have taken hostages, particularly in a building, we are talking now about a siege really. We're going to talk about negotiation, being outside.

One of the key questions is, what do they have in terms of weaponry? There were reports at the beginning of this that not only do they have automatic weapons and AK-47s, but one witness saying they had a rocket launcher. If that's the case, police are going to be taking a lot of precautions and bringing heavy tactical units to the area to try and figure out how to deal with the situation.

BERMAN: We are looking at live pictures right now, coming to us via "Reuters". This is from the town of Dammartin-en-Goele, that's near Charles de Gaulle airport.

We believe this is where this ongoing operation is happening right now -- unclear how close we are to the operation. You would think the cameras are at least set back a little bit. But the information we have right now, French media reporting that one or more hostages have been taken. The interior ministry says that they have surrounded the suspects, the terror suspects believed to have shot and killed 12 people in Paris two days ago now. There is the ongoing operation in this town that you are looking at right now.

Jim Bittermann, do we still have you with us?

BITTERMANN: Yes, I'm still here, John.

I think one of the things -- one of the things that's interesting about this is that we are seeing the deployment in the live video that we saw yesterday in Montrouge, where the police bring up the fire trucks. In France, the fire authorities are probably the first responders in terms of any kind of injury. So, they always bring up fire trucks because they are trained and they will be able to help out if there is any kind of injury.

So, they brought up the fire trucks. We saw the SWAT teams going in. The same deployment from yesterday in Montrouge when they thought they had somebody surrounded there. Here, though, much more definitive, they're much more definitive about it.

One of the things that is making me think that, is the fact that the interior minister has come out and held this meeting with the press this morning briefly and said something to the press about this. He is exhibiting, colleague at BFM said, a large amount of confidence, that they got these two guys, that police have surrounded them. I think that's probably something that is -- the politician would not risk his political career.

(CROSSTALK)

SOARES: He sounds extremely confident. Looking at the images, you say the amount of police or almost like military operation that we are seeing. Overnight, we knew they had night vision. They are really going full force against them trying to get them to slip up really trying to catch these two brothers.

Jim, looking at these pictures and what you are hearing, I mean, is it -- do you believe that we are talking about, do you think different incidents or is this all one area?

BITTERMANN: More and more, I think we are talking about one incident. This is varying reports of the same thing, it seems to me, because it's all in the area of the active search and you can see a helicopter up in the air. I think they were talking about the same thing. I think also the interior minister is the one who has been the least definitive about it, that I think we are talking about the idea they've got these two guys surrounded.

Now, whether they have hostages or not, that is complicating factor. More than complicating factor, dangerous factor.

(CROSSTALK)

SOARES: Changes.

It shows just how dangerous these two men are. When they first attacked here in the offices of "Charlie Hebdo", you know, we are talking about how organized they were, because they came in and asked for the location. They asked for the editors. They knew exactly what they're looking for, but then they started to slip up, isn't it? But they are extremely dangerous.

BITTERMANN: Definitely. The more dangerous the more they are cornered. One of the colleagues said this morning, you get the situation where they're going to be so desperate, that they will stand to the last man. I mean, they are jihadists. They are not afraid of dying and martyrdom. So, this is a dangerous situation indeed if they decide that they're going to go all the way to the end.

SOARES: And, clearly, they did not face any pressure, John and Christine, when they went to the petrol station, because the gentleman who worked there, the employee, he was threatened, but he knew nothing happened to him.

ROMANS: Right.

SOARES: But, clearly, now, with so much pressure, we believe hunting them down, you know, that can quickly change. We are talking about hostage situation. That changes the game even further.

ROMANS: Let's bring you up to speed, folks, on what we are talking about here. We are talking about one or more hostages being held at a business in that town where our Atika Shubert is headed to in Dammartin-en-Goele, that's near the Charles de Gaulle Airport.

French media reporting that there are one or more hostages there, the French interior minister talking to reporters earlier this morning, our affiliate BFM reporting that he had a high degree of confidence that they were located and surrounding these suspects. How desperate they are, though, is really the wild card here.

Do they have people and are they -- could this potentially end deadly?

BERMAN: We know the local hospital is sending a medical team to that scene, to assist in the situation. The hospital official spoke to CNN, said there are no wounded at the hospital yet. But he also said that might change in the coming minutes.

The context here, there have been reports of shooting in the area and also reports of people wounded. We have no confirmation of that, because as we just said, the hospital official says he has not seen any wounded yet. But ominously perhaps, he said that situation could change.

ROMANS: There are a lot of pieces at play here, folks, and a lot of this information is coming in. And it is contradictory and it is the nature of breaking news.

But, Jim Bittermann, I want to ask you about this, the situation, at one point, there were three active shooters on the loose in France. This third shooter, who yesterday stopped a policewoman who was at the scene of an accident, got out of the car, gunned her down and killed her.

You had developments earlier this morning on that front. The police are confident they are getting closer to that shooter.

BITTERMANN: This is what the interior minister told us. In fact, he believes they are getting close to where that shooter is. They -- what happened yesterday was this 26-year-old police woman, a trainee, it wasn't even a full policewoman, filling for the city police in Montrouge, was out directing traffic around rather a commonplace with a traffic accident who are directing traffic.

Somebody got out of the car and jumped out with a submachine gun and dressed in black masked, just the same kind another operation we saw here at "Charlie Hebdo", and shot her. And shot as well the city employee. The city employee is still in critical condition, but the police officer died.

So, it's a pretty sad story. But the police say, according to the interior minister, they found enough evidence in the car that was left at the scene by the shooter, they found enough evidence to believe that they are able to track him down shortly. I think we'll probably see something again because of the confidence that the interior minister is speaking with. We're going to see something probably within the day today on that front, at least some more information.

BERMAN: Within that information, Jim, are you getting any sense that these two shooting incidents have been connected?

SOARES: It's a tough one, isn't it, the two shootings being connected. I mean, there is nothing to suggest that is the case, is that, Jim? I mean, looking at these two separate shooting, to think --

(CROSSTALK) BITTERMANN: Yes, in fact, the interior minister said that this morning and they said it last night as well, that there is nothing to connect these.

SOARES: But, you know, looking at these images, it goes to show how dangerous these two men are.

Of course, like you said, John and Christine, we are talking about the fact the French authorities have surrounded this area. We confirmed an area where we believe the terrorists are located. This information is confirmed by the French interior minister.

But, you know, it's a breaking news situation, lots of moving parts. Do bear with us. We're getting reports that are perhaps one or two hostages at a factory and a car chase northeast of Paris as well. So, we don't know at this stage where we are talking about one area or one incident or separate incidents.

BERMAN: Right. You are looking at live pictures right now of the area in Dammartin-en-Goele, that's a town northeast of Paris. The French interior minister says that he has the suspects surrounded. Investigators, law enforcement officials have the suspects in a terror attack on "Charlie Hebdo" two days ago, they said they are surrounded in this town right now.

French media reporting that there may be one or more hostages being held as part of the situation, that's according to French media.

We were told by a local hospital just minutes ago that they are sending medical personnel to this area you're looking at right now. They say that hospital says they have had no wounded at that hospital yet, but the hospital officials tell CNN that that could change.