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Gunmen Attack Kenyan University; Iran Nuke Talks Stretch Another Day; Is There A Fight 9525 Video? Aired 4:30-5a ET

Aired April 02, 2015 - 04:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:30:00] CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Kenya's interior ministry tweeting the militants are now cornered in one building.

I want to go right now to Robyn Kriel. She is the East Africa bureau chief for eNCAnews in Nairobi.

Robyn, thanks for joining us this morning.

I want to tell you what the Red Cross has been reporting, has been tweeting. They are talking about the attack. The Red Cross saying in a tweet that 30 casualties have been taken to the hospital. Four are serious. A majority of those casualties have gunshot wounds.

Then this from the U.S. embassy in Nairobi, "We are saddened and angered by the attack at Garissa University. Our deepest condolences to family and friends of the victims. #cowardsneverwin."

And this from the interior ministry there, "An inter-agency security team has secured the university in the process of flushing out the gunmen."

Robyn, give us a sense of why the university may have been a target for al Shabaab.

ROBYN KRIEL, ENCANEWS EAST AFRICA BUREAU CHIEF: Well, t is very close to the border with Somalia. A very porous border as has been proven time and time again with various attacks that indicate that al Shabaab and its militants or various arms of al Shabaab are able to cross over with impunity. We have seen it in the attacks which occurred last year, killing 70 people, and the way they are able to cross over with what is obviously a lot of arms and sometimes heavy armory in terms of rocket-propelled grenade and other things like that.

They are incredibly militaristic in their style. It's very precise. They know what they are going to hit. It has obviously been preplanned and there's obviously been a tremendous amount of intelligence going behind that, sort of scoping out the place and the best time to attack would be.

They attacked at 5:30 in the morning, and from what I understand, a lot of students going to morning prayers at that time. This is a heavily Muslim population that lives in the particular town. It's very close to the Somali border. And a number of Somali Kenyans live there.

They have been reporting they are separating Christians from Muslims. If that indeed turns out to be true, it will line up with other attacks where they separated the Muslims from the Christians and executed the Christians, as well in Westgate where Muslims and children were oftentimes allowed to leave and Christians and adults had to stay.

ROMANS: Our David McKenzie has been reporting that al Shabaab has been diminished in recent weeks and months, that it is increasingly desperate. This may very well, in fact, be retaliation in the borders. Retaliation for the Kenyan government and Kenyan forces fighting al Shabaab in Somalia. Is that true?

KRIEL: Indeed. We have only seen these attacks since the Kenyan defense force sent its troops across the border in 2011 to fight militant group al Shabaab, to fight alongside African Union forces who have been fighting since late 2000.

These sorts of attacks began once it sends troops across the border. But as David McKenzie reported, they have been cornered as it were, within Somalia. African Union making tremendous head way over the last few areas. They forced them out of Mogadishu in August of 2011. They then forced them further and further south, at the Ethiopians, Ugandans, and (INAUDIBLE) fighting from Mogadishu downward, and the KDF came up from the south.

This has really cornered al Shabaab and the number of major ports which was seize the last October which cut off supplies of a number of things, those weapons, foreign fighters, of bomb making materials, everything that including revenue. Everything groups like this need to exist.

What they do is they scatter, they regroup. They happen to be regrouping, it looks like they are regrouping by the border, and that this is acting s a military group having fought from the bush for nearly a decade. They are able to cross over and attack soft institutions like this.

ROMANS: And interesting, they are acting like a military group, but they're not attacking military installations. They are attacking here a university here, young people asleep and getting ready to go to morning prayers. That says -- speaks volumes about the ISIS-style philosophy of what this group wants.

KRIEL: Well, it's really before the Islamic State became a factor in these sorts of attacks. Al Shabaab has been sort of on the forefront with affiliation with al Qaeda in exactly the same sorts of attacks, wanting to institute Sharia law, not wanting especially women to have education, or if it is, to have a certain type of education, a very strict education under Sharia law.

[04:35:08] And wanting people to live a certain type of lifestyle which Kenyans do not wish to live. There is a democratic government here. In terms of likening it to I.S., we have understood low level chatter

between al Shabaab and Islamic State. However, none of the leadership has come forward, as in the Boko Haram style unification. None of the major leadership has come forward and that has not been proven that the two will amalgamate.

ROMANS: Robyn, let me just tell you that that interior ministry is giving some new information. So, I want to get your reaction of the new information, an update here of the four hostels, three of them have been evacuated, the interior ministry says. The four hostels at the university. The attackers have been cornered in one hostel and operations continue.

By hostels, I assume they mean dormitories?

KRIEL: Yes. They're talking about the dormitories at the university. There are about 500 I believe students at the university. So, if the hostel is full, it could be up to 100 civilians in there with however many attackers we cannot speculate, how many attackers are in there.

We heard from eyewitnesses that they have been getting calls from people calling their sons, et cetera, calling their families, hiding under beds, saying that they can hear the attacks happening, but they have to get off the phone. Obviously, this is a traumatic time. I remember during Westgate, I lived very close to Westgate.

You could hear the gunshots, you could hear even sometimes the scream of people caught inside. It's got to be absolutely awful. Garissa is quite a small town for the residents that are listening to this unfold and not knowing what is going on.

ROMANS: Right. And it is still an active situation, the interior minister saying operations continue. They have some of these militants cornered right now. There are students still clearly terrified on the campus. We're going to continue to monitor that.

Thank you, Robyn Kriel, for all of your expertise and analysis actually on al Shabaab and what's been happening there in southeastern Kenya. Thank you. We'll talk to you again very, very soon.

All right. Thirty-seven minutes past the hour.

Happening this morning: negotiators still struggling to work out a deal curbing Iran's nuclear program, pulling an all-nighter at talks in Switzerland. Their determination to keep talking is one good sign. Word from negotiators that they made, quote, "significant progress" is another. But there were less optimistic signs as well, including Iran's foreign minister, publicly calling negotiations with the West always problematic.

For the very latest, let's turn to global affairs correspondent Elise Labott at the talks in Switzerland -- Elise.

ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORREPONDENT: Good morning, Christine. Well, the talks, as you said, went all night, broke up just about a few hours ago. The negotiators went and got some rest and now, they're going to start again very shortly.

The British and French foreign ministers who have left last night came back overnight. They said -- the French foreign minister said they are in the finish line. But it's always those final yards that are the most problematic.

But as you said, the Iranian foreign minister saying that these negotiations are troublesome. Why? Because Iran is negotiating with six countries, and sometimes, the so-called P5-plus-1 is not united, they have their own interests. The United States has concerns with Congress. So, Iranians were really putting the onus on these negotiating powers to kind of get their act together.

But it's the world powers that are saying, Christine, it's really Iran that needs to make the tough decisions. It seems that they are close, but could be something today. But again, it has been a roller coaster these last few days.

ROMANS: All right. Elise Labott, thank you for bringing that to us. I'm sure that rollercoaster will continue.

Speaking of roller coasters and reversals, happening now, Indiana lawmakers just hours away from announcing a deal to, quote, "fix" the state religious freedom law. The law drawing intense fire from gay supporters across the country. They call it a license to discriminate. Corporations and government officials and other states threatening to boycott Indiana. Republican leaders are set to unveil a deal modifying the new law this morning.

Overnight, the speaker of the Indiana House emerged from hours, hours of closed-door meetings, optimistic about support for a deal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN BOSMA (R), INDIANA HOUSE SPEAKER: We hope to have this completely resolved tomorrow. It takes work, hard work and a lot of discussion, and we are actively talking not just with the governor, but members of the corporate and sports community. I had a couple of meetings with LGBT folks. I think we're moving in the right direction to clarify and preserve religious freedom and dispel the myth this denies service to any category.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: The Indiana speaker would not say what will be in the proposed bill, but he did say it will not include repeal of the religious freedom law or broad ban on an anti-gay discrimination, something that the LGBT lobby has really hoped for, a broad ban, outright ban on discrimination against LGBT members.

[04:40:13] All right. Arkansas lawmakers furiously working to change to their won religious freedom bill. Governor Asa Hutchinson, he said he will not sign the bill passed by lawmakers. He will not sign it. It's a bill similar to the one under fire in Indiana.

CNN's Victor Blackwell has more from Little Rock. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Christine, one legislator described what we saw yesterday as legislative acrobatics, and it's applicable, because there were lots of maneuvers.

But here's the headline: the state Senate passed a new religious freedom bill and now goes on to the House. And this new bill, at least the Senate believes, has the language that Governor Asa Hutchinson was looking for, something that mirrored the federal law.

And, of course, all of these last-minute maneuvers started when the governor announced that the bill, the original religious freedom bill that was sent to him did not have that language. He asked the state assembly to recall the bill and put that language in.

That was a surprise because up to this point, the governor said he was going to sign the bill. Was it the pressure from the business community? Walmart? The largest private employer in the state, 50,000 employees urging the governor to veto it? Or the governor's son, Seth Hutchinson, telling his father that he should veto it?

The governor said that he listened to both of those opinions and took those into consideration.

GOV. ASA HUTCHINSON (R), ARKANSAS: My responsibility is to speak out on my own convictions and to do what I can as governor to make sure this bill reflects the values of the people of Arkansas, protects those of religious conscience, but also minimizes the chance of discrimination in the workplace and in the public environment.

BLACKWELL: We do not know if Walmart, if Seth Hutchinson, if the other people who criticized the Bill 1228 are going to be happy with this new bill. But we do know that the wheels are in motion, possibly to get this passed today or tomorrow before the session ends.

Christine, back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROMANS: Victor Blackwell, thank you for that.

Now, more businesses are taking action in Indiana. I want to bring in CNN Money correspondent Alison Kosik. She joins me now.

Alison, Salesforce making the most drastic move yet.

ALISON KOSIK, CNN MONEY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, these aren't just statements. As you said, this is action. The software company is actually helping its employees move out of Indiana. Salesforce is already reducing investments in the state because of the religious freedom law.

But now, CEO Marc Benioff says employees are asking for transfers and he's telling them, yes and paying $50,000 for relocation package. Benioff says he doesn't want any Salesforce employees to feel discriminated against.

ROMANS: He also says he is already seeing no gays allowed signs. Is that really the case?

KOSIK: Well, I mean, take for example Memories Pizza in Wilkinson, Indiana. The owners are using the law to refuse service.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRYSTAL O'CONNOR, MEMORIES PIZZA: If a gay couple was to come in, say they wanted us to provide them pizzas for a wedding, we would have to say no.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOSIK: They say they would serve a gay couple pizza, they would not be involved in a wedding. I don't remember the last wedding I went to where there was pizza.

(LAUGHTER)

ROMANS: That is a moment of levity on what is a very, very serious story.

Very interesting, though, how this has, although the state says it will fix it, it is happening. The fallout is already happening and still happening despite the fix.

Alison, thanks for bringing that to us. We'll talk to you again very, very soon.

We are following this breaking news this morning. A gunman storming a university in Kenya. Students attacked. New details ahead.

Plus, were the final moments on board Germanwings Flight 9525 recorded? The new claims, next.

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[04:47:30] ROMANS: If there truly is an authentic video from inside Germanwings Flight 9525 in its final moments, it has not surfaced publicly yet. French police believe it doesn't exist at all. And prosecutors say if it does, whoever has it better surrender it now.

Meanwhile, search crews in the French Alps are still going through the debris of Flight 9525.

This morning, I want to get the latest from CNN's Erin McLaughlin. She's live for us in Le Vernet, France.

Erin, let's start here, let's start with that video, so many people talking about it. Is it legitimate?

ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So far, as you say, Christine, it has not surfaced. French authorities are saying it doesn't exist. Meanwhile, the recovery work at times painstaking, dangerous, and

emotional continues here in the French Alps. But authorities say they are making good progress. They say they managed to recover all of the human remains visible to the eye.

So, the priority for the recovery workers today really being twofold -- they are continuing to try to collect the personal effects of the victims, the personal belongings. The team of some 20 French alpine troops dedicated to the effort. They are taking the belongings and loading them in bags and choppering them out of the area.

And the other priority today, Christine, is to continue to dig, because the impact of the plane crash was so intense that authorities here think that there are actually human remains possibly and plane parts buried beneath the soil. Now, they didn't manage to find any human remains yesterday, but they continue to look. They say they cannot use dogs because the stench of jet fuel is so intense the dogs are ineffective.

They are also continuing to dig for the flight recorder that could give them valuable clues as to how the plane was being flown in those last moments, Christine.

ROMANS: You know, Erin, when I look at the I pictures of the rescue workers, I think two things. I think that these rescue workers are doing such valiant work and how difficult it must be for them. And I think about the families, too, Erin, for them, when you describe what this crash scene is like and the impact of the crash, this site there of the beautiful French Alps is always the burial place of their loved ones.

MCLAUGHLIN: Absolutely. And this Easter weekend, we are expecting more family, more friends to arrive here in Vernet.

[04:50:02] They've been coming to that memorial site that's just over that, where you see someone there perhaps a local resident leaving flowers right now. That stone dedicated to the victims of Flight 9525.

The families have been very welcome here, locals even opening up their homes. They have care centers for them. Residents say they will always be welcome here. They say that this is their land, too, now -- Christine.

ROMANS: All right. Erin McLaughlin in Le Vernet, thank you so much, Erin, for your reporting these past days.

We are following breaking news. Gunmen storming a university in Kenya with students attacked. Terrorists are claiming responsibility. This is still an active situation. We are told these terrorists have been cornered. We're going to bring you the very latest, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROMANS: Returning to our breaking news this morning. At least two people dead and 30 hospitalized following an attack on a university in southeastern Kenya. The U.S. embassy says al Shabaab has taken responsibility and militants have taken hostages.

The Red Cross say the number of hostages is unknown, but at least 50 have been set free.

I want to take a look what we're hearing from the ground right now, from the Kenyan Red Cross, in the coordination with the health ministry. Plans are underway to airlift critical casualties to Nairobi. Update follows.

And we just heard this from the interior ministry, an update from the interior ministry, of the four hostels, three have been evacuated.

[04:55:06] The attackers have been cornered in one hostel. And the operations continue.

Let's bring in CNN's David McKenzie. He's joining me now. He has spent years reporting for us from Nairobi from Kenya. He's got a lot of context on this story here.

So, David, this still an active situation. I want to be clear here. These gunmen came in just early hours, 5:00 a.m. in the morning local time, as young people were leaving to get ready for morning prayers and started shooting.

What do we know?

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right, Christine. What we know is this is a planned operation by al Shabaab, masked gunmen storming into that university in northeast Kenya. It seems they are doing their classic and horrifying style of attack they have been doing in recent years, most notably in the Westgate mall attack that garnered the world's attention in 2013.

So, this is the nightmare scenario for security forces, because the attackers appeared to have cornered hostages, and they can prolong their terror operation. And they can prolong it and get more attention. This is clearly their goal to strike terror into Kenya and garner world attention.

Al Shabaab used to be a much more powerful force. It controlled large parts of neighboring Somalia, trying to set up an Islamic state there. But due to African Union troops in the region, they have been beaten back to become more of a marginal force, but still with the capability to strike this terror. This isn't the first attack in recent months, they have been doing a number of grenade and gun attacks on civilians in Kenya, showing both the limits of the Kenyan forces as well as the terror they can strike into civilians -- Christine.

ROMANS: All right. David, stay with us. We've got a lot of information we are following every development in this university attack.

EARLY START continues next.

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