Return to Transcripts main page

Early Start with John Berman and Zoraida Sambolin

GOP Candidates Sharpen Debate Attacks. Aired 4:30-5a ET

Aired October 29, 2015 - 04:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[04:31:09] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Uncomfortable night in Boulder, Colorado. The candidates after each other, but more than anything, going after the media. What happened at the debate? Campaign manager banging on control room doors. Man, oh, man, a lot of drama.

Welcome back to EARLY START, everyone. I'm John Berman.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Christine Romans. Bright and early this morning, folks. Thirty-one minutes past the hour, 4:31 in the East.

This morning, the accusations are flying after a prickly squirm in your seat Republican debate. The candidates sharpened their attacks last night in Boulder, Colorado. And they aimed not only on each other. You know, the candidates also very much trained their sights on the media.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Just resign and let someone else take the job.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The only reason you are doing this now is because we are running for the same position. Someone convinced you it is appropriate to attack me.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He was so nice. He was such a nice guy. And he said, oh, I'm never going to attack. But then his poll numbers tanked. He's got very -- that's why he's on the end.

DEBATE MODERATOR: The leading Republican candidate when you look at the average of national polls right now is Donald Trump. When you look at him, do you see someone with the moral authority to unite the country?

(BOOS)

MIKE HUCKABEE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, there's few questions I got, the last thing I need to do is give him some more time. I love Donald Trump. He is a good man. I'm wearing a Trump tie tonight. Get over that one.

DEBATE MODERATOR: To be fair, you were on the home page of their web site with the logo over your shoulder.

BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If somebody put me on their home page, they did it without my permission.

DEBATE MODERATOR: Does that not speak to your vetting process or judgment in any way?

CARSON: No, it speaks to the fact --

(BOOS)

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We had $19 trillion in debt. We have people out of work. We have ISIS and al Qaeda attacking us and we're talking about fantasy football?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: For the latest, let's bring in CNN's Sara Murray. She's in Boulder for us this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SARA MURRAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John and Christine.

The stakes were high for a number of the candidates on the stage here in Boulder, Colorado, last night. It was the third Republican debate and they wasted no time. They came out swinging early on.

Perhaps the most memorable moment, though, was Jeb Bush, going on the attack against the man he calls his friend, Florida Senator Marco Rubio, for missing votes to run for president.

BUSH: But, Marco, when you signed up for this, this was a six- year term. And you should be showing up to work. I mean, literally, the Senate, what is it, like a French work week? You get like three days where you have to show up. You can campaign or just resign and let someone else take the job.

RUBIO: Over the last few weeks, I've listened to Jeb as you walked around the country and said you're modeling your campaign after John McCain, that you're going to launch a furious comeback the way he did, by fighting hard in New Hampshire and places like that, carrying your own bag at the airport. You know how many votes John McCain missed when he was carrying that furious comeback that you're now modeling under?

(CROSSTALK)

RUBIO: Jeb, I don't remember you ever complaining about John McCain's vote record. The only reason why you're doing it now is because we're running for the same position and someone has convinced you that attacking me is going to help you.

MURRAY: And the immediate reaction from the moment is attack may have back fired on Jeb Bush. Marco Rubio may have best capitalized on that moment.

Now, even though Donald Trump and Ben Carson are the frontrunners in the Republican field right now, the fireworks did not come from them. You had to look further out on the debate stage to candidates like Senator Ted Cruz. He is running in a very conservative land at the party and looking for support from Trump and Carson. He did that by going after the media.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The questions that have been asked so far in this debate illustrate why the American people don't trust the media. This is not a cage match.

And you look at the questions, Donald Trump, are you a comic book villain? Ben Carson, can you do math? John Kasich, will you insult two people over here? Marco Rubio, why don't you resign? Jeb Bush, why are your numbers fallen?

[04:35:00] How about talking about the substantive issue people care about?

(APPLAUSE)

MURRAY: Cruz wasn't the only candidate unhappy with the debate last night. RNC Chairman Reince Priebus came to the spin room immediately after saying he is disappointed with CNBC.

Back to you, John and Christine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROMANS: Sara, thanks so much.

I want talk about the winners and losers last night.

Jeremy Diamond from CNN Politics has a great piece on our web site. Please take a look at it. But we are lucky enough to have Jeremy with us.

Jeremy, we're talking about Jeb Bush. No one needed a bigger night last night than Jeb Bush. We just saw that exchange between Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio. Not good for Jeb.

We heard late last night that his campaign manager, Danny Diaz, actually knocking on the door of CNBC essentially demanding more time for Jeb Bush to talk, which is dramatic and stunning. After the debate, you could see Jeb did not love the way things went. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: You see him quite frustrated.

BUSH: No, not frustrated.

BASH: No?

BUSH: No. I wish I've gotten questions on -- you know, I got to answer questions on things that are on the minds of people, you know, entitlement challenges, the debt. I got fantasy football, you know? It's important, I guess.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Yes. I mean, not a man who looked particularly happy afterwards, Jeremy.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN POLITICS: Yes, you know, you almost want to shake him and say, Jeb, you're frustrated. It's obvious that he's frustrated and yet even when he's pressed after the interview, he can't express this kind of anger and enthusiasm, fashion, something, some kind of a show of emotion that he seems to have been lacking.

The problem with Danny Diaz, you know, the campaign manager, going and knocking on the control room door to complain about Bush not getting enough time, all of the other candidates fought for their time, you know, just being beyond allotted question here and there. They were elbowing in and trying to get a word in edge wise any way they could.

So, it is not just that the other candidates got more time from the moderators, but they fought for it. Jeb Bush kind of stood there and waited to watch things unfold, I guess. And the night got away from him.

ROMANS: What happens to him from here? If you are in the campaign, how do you take that performance and move forward on the campaign trail?

DIAMOND: Yes. Well, I think we have to look forward and see, first of all, what are the ways in which Jeb Bush can improve his debate performance, because there are many more debates to come in he wants to stay in the race. And, you know, the excuse he is not the best debater, but other ways on the campaign trail just isn't good enough if they want to keep the debate long term.

And Ana Navarro, even, you know, a CNN political commentator who is very close friends of Jeb Bush's and one of his political supporters, even said last night she was glum. She was -- you know, Marco was a great debater she said. And Jeb Bush just didn't do it.

She said, you know, the Bush campaign and he are really going to have to take the next few days and reassess and find a way to move forward in a different way that puts Jeb in a more positive light and reinforces his strengths.

BERMAN: Just to illustrate your point about Jeb Bush not seizing the moment as it were, I think we have a graphic here which illustrates how much speaking time each candidate took up on the stage. We don't have it yet.

But, look, Jeb Bush actually spoke the least of any candidates, six minutes. Carly Fiorina spoke the most, 10 minutes and 30 seconds. That is because Carly Fiorina butted in whenever she wanted essentially. She just answered any question asked to any candidate. She took the time she wanted.

Ted Cruz is another candidate. He was in the middle of the time. Ted Cruz's message was very I would say focused on the message he wanted to send. And last night, the message that he wanted to send was that the media isn't the friend of the conservatives here.

Let's listen to one of his exchanges with the moderators. He really went after it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRUZ: The questions that are being asked shouldn't be trying to get people to tear into each other. It should be, what are your substantive solutions --

(CROSSTALK)

MODERATOR: I asked you about the debt limit, no answer.

CRUZ: You want me to answer that question? I will be happy to answer the question.

(CROSSTALK)

MODERATOR: We are moving on.

MODERATOR: I have a question for you on the same subject.

(CROSSTALK)

CRUZ: You don't want to hear the answer, John?

(CROSSTALK)

MODERATOR: You used your time on something else.

CRUZ: You are not interested in an answer?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Ted Cruz making himself a part of this debate, Jeremy.

DIAMOND: Yes. You know, it is interesting. That was one of the only moment where is the moderators gained control of the debate which seemed to get away from them through most of the debate.

But Ted Cruz definitely did what he needed to do. He is doing pretty well in the poll. He's been going slow and steady, building support, trying to ultimately become the conservative movement's candidate to go up against the establishment if it comes down to a two-person race.

So, Ted Cruz did exactly what he needed to accomplish last night and he certainly wowed his supporters.

[04:40:03] And a lot of the lines against the media, those are sure to play really well when he tries to fund raise and he's going to blast those segments out, I'm sure to his supporters in the days to come.

ROMANS: Let's put the graphic up with Carly Fiorina with all those minutes on the debate stage. It was a debate that launched her from obscurity into contention at one point. Will those 10 minutes though translate, is going to play this time I wonder?

DIAMOND: You know, I didn't see a strong showing from Carly Fiorina. This is her event normally. She surged in the polls off her last appearance in the debate. But she did kind of see a slump in her poll numbers after a few weeks.

And that's the problem. This was an economic focus debate. This is also supposed to be not just a debate, but economic policy that is supposed to be her strength as a former Fortune 50 CEO. Carly Fiorina did not come across with any big moments. She did not do a bad job, but this was her time to show that her campaign has staying power and she is able to recapture that momentum and enthusiasm that first brought her ahead in the polls.

BERMAN: Jeremy Diamond, great to have you with us. We're going to tweet out the link to your piece, which is up on CNN Politics, which is terrific and we'll talk to you again in a little bit. Thank you, sir.

ROMANS: All right. Jeb Bush says even though Democrats boast about the economic recovery, Jeb Bush attacked the president's record on jobs and poverty.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: Six and a half million people working part-time. Work force participation rates lower than they were in 1977. Six million more people living in poverty than the day tat Barack Obama got elected president. And the left just wants more of the same.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: Let's put some context around those numbers. There are 6 million part-time workers who want more hours, who want to work full time. That number higher than a decade ago. But it is falling and has improved during Obama's tenure.

The labor force participation rate is down. Currently, only 62.4 percent of working age are working or looking for a job. That is the lowest since 1977. That is due to the aging work force, with more people retiring. Part of that is the baby boomer generation. Some people feel left out by the recovery.

And the number of Americans living in poverty is actually climbed by almost 7 million. That is true. That's more than Bush said. But the percentage of Americans in poverty is now declining.

A lot of the context around the claims and attacks against Democrats and president particularly on the economy, all of the context has to be said. Many of these numbers can be true, but you have to remember the great recession. Some of these very bad trajectories began under George W. Bush. Presidents get more blame and credit due because of the economy, but you have to look kind of that pre-recession in many cases.

BERMAN: The end points matter right here.

The Republicans went hard at the CNBC moderators. Were the questions asked fair? Was the way they did this fair? Do the Republicans have a legitimate gripe now those candidates? We'll discuss, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[04:46:52] BERMAN: All right. One of the things that really came out last night was the anger, the irritation among all the candidates on stage frankly with the debate moderators. They were very critical of the CNBC team both during and after the debate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRUZ: The questions asked should not be trying to get people to tear into each other. It should be what are your substantive solutions.

CHRISTIE: What we should do is invest in all types of energy, John. All types of energy. I've laid out.

MODERATOR: In government?

CHRISTIE: No, John -- John, do you want me to answer or you want to answer? Because I got to tell you the truth. Even in New Jersey what you are doing is called rude.

MODERATOR: Is this a comic book version of a campaign?

TRUMP: No. It is not a very nicely asked question.

BUSH: They did not control the debate. It was not a fair debate in that regard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right. I want to bring in Brian Stelter, CNN senior media correspondent, host of "RELIABLE SOURCES".

Brian, this is a serious issue this morning. These campaigns are angry. The Republican Party is angry about the types of questions, how they were asked and to whom they were asked, and how often. There's a lot going on here.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. The anger was mounting as the debate went on. We know that campaigns were angry with the RNC and RNC was angry at CNBC. We have three groups director ire at CNBC.

Here is what the chairman of the RNC, Reince Priebus, said right after the debate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REINCE PRIEBUS, RNC CHAIRMAN: I think it was one gotcha question, one personal low blow after the other. It's almost like they tried to design a Rubik's cube for every question to take the worst element I think of what moderators and media should bring to the table. All I can tell you is that while I'm proud of our candidates for pretty much sticking together, I'm very disappointed in the moderators and I'm very disappointed with CNBC.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STELTER: The FOX News debate with personal and tough questions, the CNN had tough and personal questions. The difference is the moderators did not have as much control over the debate stage, over the moderators. This was, of course, on CNBC. A niche business news channel where there is more for substantive, economic policy questions. We heard so many personal questions right off the bat trying to create tension, trying to create debate, I think that set a very bad tone and got worse.

ROMANS: The stakes are high for the candidates. They are running out of time to show they are good debaters and have substantive policy issues. They don't have time to get it right for another debate.

STELTER: Rather than debate each other, sometimes they do want to debate the moderators. Some of what we saw was pandering and grandstanding. Let's be honest. There's no easy way to get an applause line inside a GOP event than to attack the media.

We should keep in mind they disguise defense tactic. It's almost like a shield to attack the media. But there were legitimate reasons to complain last night I think.

BERMAN: It's interesting, because Marco Rubio went in with a scripted line for the media. There was an attack on the mainstream media right there. But what Ted Cruz did, that was in the moment.

[04:50:00] I mean, Ted Cruz was actually criticizing specific questions that had been asked of the other candidates.

We are talking 20 minutes into the debate here. This was early on and Ted Cruz complained about questions to Kasich. To Trump, you know, to Rubio. And Ted Cruz made this his moment in the campaign. That may have been the most significant moment in this entire campaign for Ted Cruz.

STELTER: On Facebook, the most talked about candidate was Ted Cruz last night. Here is what CNBC said. They released a statement after the debate with all this criticism mounting. They said people who want a president of the United States should be able to answer tough questions. That was their one line defense of the debate.

And, of course, we can agree with that as a basic thing to say. Yes, they should take tough questions, but it did seem the debate was out of control. The moderators were not able to run the clock very effectively. That created chaos which played to the candidates' advantages.

ROMANS: There was this moment when Becky Quick, who is a fantastic business reporter, when she asked Donald Trump, she challenged Donald Trump on comments that he had made about Mark Zuckerberg and Marco Rubio and about immigration policy. She did not push hard enough.

STELTER: He didn't say it. Trump actually did say it, but he claimed he did not say it. Instead of following up, Quick said I don't know where I read that. At one point, she said my apologies.

No worse words to say to a candidate than my apologies. It makes you weak. It makes on the defense, when in fact, she was in the clear. She was in the right. She should have held up the headline.

The fact that didn't happen, put Trump on the offense and her on the defense. We should say live TV is hard. This is a reminder that this job is very difficult and it goes to show how effective FOX and CNN were earlier in the cycle. The next debate is on FOX Business and we'll see how they do it in the couple of weeks.

BERMAN: We're not picking on CNBC here to pick on CNBC. This has become an issue. This was is a huge issue in the debate. Some of the candidates, it may have been a turning point in this campaign. That's why we're talking about it. Brian Stelter, great to have you here with us. We'll talk again soon.

ROMANS: All right. A big night.

Bernie Sanders evolving on marijuana. What he is now saying --

BERMAN: On the subject of marijuana. He wasn't like on marijuana and evolving. Just to clarify.

ROMANS: Evolving on the position of marijuana. What he is saying about whether the drug should be illegal, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[04:55:56] ROMANS: Bernie Sanders is stumping in Virginia and calling for an end to the federal prohibition on marijuana. The Democratic presidential candidate spoke to students at George Mason University. He wants each state to be able to regulate marijuana the same way state laws govern sales of alcohol and tobacco. Sanders stopped short of calling for full legalization. It's also a bit of an evolution for Bernie Sanders. He said in an earlier interview that marijuana is a gateway drug that can lead to heroin and cocaine.

BERMAN: All right. Big fireworks at the Republican debate. Last night, candidates going after each other, going after the media as well. We will break it all down. The reaction after the debate while you were sleeping. You haven't heard this yet.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)