Return to Transcripts main page
Early Start with John Berman and Zoraida Sambolin
GOP Candidates Face Off in Milwaukee; Winners & Losers in the Republican Debate; Immigration Fights Head to Supreme Court; U.S. to Help Investigate Russian Jet Crash. Aired 4-4:30a ET
Aired November 11, 2015 - 04:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[04:00:16] CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Intense, heated arguments in the Republican presidential debate. Candidates facing off late into the night, focused on policy, not personality. But who came out on top?
Good morning and welcome to EARLY START. I'm Christine Romans.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm John Berman. Nice to see you. It is Wednesday, November 11th. It is 4:00 a.m. in the East, which is very early after a very late night.
It is the morning after in Milwaukee. Eight candidates walked on the main stage at the Republican debate. Who left with a limp? Immigration, military intervention, even tax policy.
The debate was filled with heated moments.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If Putin wants to go and knock the hell out of ISIS, I am all for it 100 percent. I can't understand how anybody would be against it. They blew up -- hold it. They blew up -- wait a minute. They blew up a Russian airplane.
JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald -- Donald is wrong on this. He is absolutely wrong on this. We are not going to be the world's policemen, but we sure as heck better be the world's leader.
GOV. JOHN KASICH (R-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: All I'm suggesting, we can't ship 11 million people out of this country. Children would be terrified, and it will not work.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: -- built an unbelievable company worth billions and billions of dollars. I don't have to hear from this man, believe me. I don't have to hear from him.
SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Ronald Reagan was strong, but Ronald Reagan didn't --
CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: -- Ronald Reagan walked away at Reykjavik.
PAUL: -- send troops into the Middle East.
FIORINA: -- he walked away, he quit talking --
PAUL: Can I finish my time?
FIORINA: -- when it was time to quit talking.
PAUL: Can I finish my time?
TRUMP: Why does she keep interrupting everybody?
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: Terrible.
(BOOING)
PAUL: Yes, I would like to finish my response, basically.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Why would you then bail out rich Wall Street banks, but not Main street, not Mom and Pop, not Sabina Loving?
KASICH: I wouldn't. I wouldn't.
CRUZ: But you just said an executive --
KASICH: No. No, I didn't say that.
CRUZ: -- knows to step in and bail out a bank.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BERMAN: All right. Let's get much more on this. Let's go to chief correspondent Dana Bash in Milwaukee.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: John and Christine, the moderators of this debate promised that it would be substantive and pristine on the issues that you talk about all the time, on jobs, the economy and fiscal policy, and they delivered on that.
But one of the issues that certainly has to do with this but is something that is of great interest in the Republican primary voters is immigration, and the differences between the Republican candidates on that.
And so, one of the most fascinating moments was when Donald Trump talked about his plan to get rid of all of the undocumented immigrants in this country and John Kasich came back at him and just, that's just not realistic.
KASICH: Come on, folks. We all know you can't pick them up and ship them across, back across the border. It's a silly argument. It is not an adult argument. It makes no sense.
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: All I can say is, you're lucky in Ohio that you struck oil. That's for one thing.
(LAUGHTER)
Let me just tell you that Dwight Eisenhower, good president, great president, people liked him. "I like Ike," right? The expression. "I like Ike."
Moved a 1.5 million illegal immigrants out of this country, moved them just beyond the border. They came back.
Moved them again beyond the border, they came back. Didn't like it. Moved them way south. They never came back.
(LAUGHTER)
Dwight Eisenhower.
BASH: There were lots of other pointed exchanges between the candidates, for example, on foreign policy, Rand Paul who calls himself a form of isolationist. He went at it with Marco Rubio, giving Marco Rubio one of his best moments of the debate, giving him the opportunity to articulate why he thinks it's important for the United States to have a powerful role in the world.
But when it comes to Marco Rubio, one thing that was missing from this debate that we certainly saw in the last one was the drama between Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio. We didn't see them go after one another. They each stuck to what they wanted to talk, vis-a-vis policy, vis-a-vis their proposals, and their plans and actually pretended like the other wasn't even on the stage -- John and Christine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: All right, Dana.
Helping us break down the winners and losers at this hour, CNN Politics reporter Jeremy Diamond, live in our Washington bureau.
Good morning, Jeremy. Your headline?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Yes. Well, Marco Rubio once again, taking the cake it seems. I think he was a bit of a maestro last night, kind of hitting every note that he needed to.
But, really, you know, almost every candidate had a good moment last night. You had Marco Rubio, of course. But, also, you know, Donald Trump doing what he did the last time around, which was really sticking to putting forward a more reserved facade, showing a little bit of more presidential side. You had Ted Cruz also once again with a strong night. [04:05:01] And Jeb Bush, you know, interestingly, all eyes were on Jeb
Bush last night after he had a really tough performance in the CNBC debate. He did better, you know? He improved for sure.
But I think he was still probably upstaged by most of the other competitors on stage, notably, Marco Rubio, who had a much better night than he did. Once again kind of establishing this contrast between the two -- a former mentor and the other a former mentee -- that perhaps, Marco Rubio is seizing the spotlight as the establishment favorite as Jeb Bush is fading away, maybe.
BERMAN: You know, one person we haven't heard much yet this morning as we are recapping this is Ben Carson, who was one of the co-front- runners in the race right now. And he's out front in the polls. He's content to sort of sit back at the debates.
And if we have this one piece of soup, he did briefly talk about how the media is asking so many questions about things he has said about his past. I want to play this one built of sound for Ben Carson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, first of all, thank you not asking me what I said in the 10th grade. I appreciate that.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
NEIL CAVUTO, DEBATE MODERATOR: I'll just forget that follow-up there.
(LAUGHTER)
CARSON: The fact of the matter is, you know, what -- we should vet all candidates. I have no problem with being vetted. What I do have a problem with is being lied about and then putting that out there as truth.
(APPLAUSE)
And I don't even mind that so much, if they do it about -- with everybody, like people on the other side. But, you know, when I look at somebody like Hillary Clinton, who sits there and tells her daughter and a government official that no, this was a terrorist attack, and then tells everybody else that it was a video.
Where I came from, they call that a lie. And...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: So, that was a moment which ignited the crowd there. But it's probably the only moment from Ben Carson that got a rise. So, it is interesting he is ready to cede it to the other candidates. It doesn't seem to hurt his standings in the polls. DIAMOND: Right, right. Well, after the last debate, Jeb Bush changed
his campaign slogan to "Jeb can fix it", right, with a campaign reboot. For Ben Carson, it seems a little bit more, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Because he kind of stuck with the same script he had last time, which was, you know, stay calm, cool, collected, checked, give his supporters the same Ben Carson that he is, which is kind of this mild-mannered, you know, more reserved personality that seems to have gained some traction as he is challenging Donald Trump for the front runner status in the Republican primary.
So, Ben Carson really didn't need to do much. You know, he kind of sat back, relaxed, gave his voters a few moments. But other than that, he didn't need to come out swinging.
ROMANS: And, you know, Jeremy, he had minutes, 22 seconds of air time, giving him the dead last of all of the candidates on that stage.
BERMAN: Perfect for Ben Carson.
ROMANS: Perfect. He used --
(CROSSTALK)
DIAMOND: I love -- you always have the timing works out for me this morning.
ROMANS: I know. But then look, we have George Bush, you know, Jeb bush, I've done that like ten times, I'm sorry, Mr. Bush, Governor Bush, he came in second-to-last. He -- tell me about his performance. He did better but it was not enough to really put him at these with the rest of them as a great debater.
DIAMOND: Yes, you know, he did better. He did manage to kind of elbow his way into the conversation at moments when he wasn't called on, which is something that he said last time he would work on. You know, he put a lot of work into improving this debate. You know, he hired a media coach, who helped him kind of improve his game for this debate.
And -- but, you know, so, he had a few of these moments, he would go in and fight with Donald Trump about his immigration plan, where he was questioning him on his foreign policy strategy. But other than that, you know, there were some moments he was trying to butt in, he kind of let back and gave in. And that kind of just feeds into the continued questions about whether Jeb Bush has, you know, the energy, the verve to really carry forward and be the standard bearer for his party.
So, I think he maybe staunched the bleeding a little bit that -- you know, as far as concerns are, you know, about his campaign, but he was certainly trying to move forward from it. I think he did it to a certain extent.
ROMANS: You have 30 seconds left, Jeremy, let's give that time to Rand Paul, who was more of a presence on the stage last night. I think after three debates this fourth one, I think he figured out exactly where he wants to be, which is where he began politically, which is to say I am not the Republican candidate of military intervention.
[04:10:01] He made that case forcefully. Now, it's no at case for everybody in the Republican voting population. But there are voters who liked that, you know, four years ago, and eight years ago, with his father.
DIAMOND: Yes, I mean, listen, he certainly articulated his argument very well last night. We saw Rand Paul on stage, you know? He had kind of been an insult presence in the previous debates.
But last night, we saw him out there, and he really laid out the argument that there is certainly a segment of the Republican voter, you know, base that agrees with him. That, you know, the U.S. shouldn't be entangled in foreign conflicts and shouldn't be deploying troops on the ground.
Now, listen, Rand Paul will argue he's not an isolationist. He still wants to combat ISIS. But he just doesn't want boots on the ground.
So, we saw that contrast with the neoconservative wing of the party, which was kind of embodied by Marco Rubio last night, and Jeb Bush in the debate. So, that was an interesting contrast and certainly gave the Republican voters a lot to think about.
BERMAN: Jeremy Diamond, thank you for getting up with us. We're going to chew this much, much more with you over the couple of hours. So, thanks very much.
ROMANS: Thanks, Jeremy.
The length of the U.S. tax code was also up for debate last night. Carly Fiorina said the U.S. must get to a three-page tax code.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FIORINA: We must cut our government down to size and hold it accountable. It's why we must take our government back, because innovation and entrepreneurship is crushed by the crushing load of a 73,000 page tax code.
(EN VIDEO CLIP)
ROMANS: Fiorina likely referring to a report used by tax professionals that is more than 72,000 pages long. However, that includes the tax code plus thousands of pages of regulation, legal analysis and then explanations. The tax code, the actual tax code is closer to 2,700 pages, so the reality check on that Fiorina claim is false.
Ted Cruz follows the same theme.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRUZ: There are more words in the IRS code than there are in the bible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMANS: The IRS acknowledges there are nearly 4 million words in the tax code. The King James Bible has 800,000. So, Cruz is correct.
BERMAN: There you go. And he said each and every one of the words in the Bible is better than the tax code as well.
All right, one of the big questions about last night is about the people asking questions. I would say too many questions about the people in these debates. It could be about us. But it has been.
We will break down how the moderators did. Too tough, not tough enough? That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[04:16:31] ROMANS: One question hanging over last night's Republican debate, would the Fox Business Network do better than CNBC? CNBC had widespread jeers for its debate.
Last night, the candidates at least seemed pretty happy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I thought it was great. I thought the moderators were elegant. I thought the questions were really, really on point.
FIORINA: So, I think the moderators stuck to the issues. I think we each had time to make our point.
PAUL: I thought it was a good debate. I thought I got more time, got to express my opinions. I had a few opinions I wanted to express.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMANS: So for analysis of the performance by the network and the moderators, let's bring in our senior media correspondent Brian Stelter.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Hey, John, hey, Christine.
The reviews are in, and they're very positive for the Fox Business Network, definitely a lot more positive than they were for the CNBC debate two weeks ago.
The moderators of the CNBC debate were almost universally criticized for the tone of their questions and letting the debate get out of control.
What we saw from the moderators on Fox Business, it was a more controlled debate. There were only a few times where it seemed like the candidates took over.
One of those times was when Donald Trump acted like a moderator. Here's what he said about Jeb Bush.
TRUMP: They moved a 1.5 million out. We have no choice. We have no choice.
(CROSSTALK)
MODERATOR: Governor Bush --
KASICH: Jerry, Gerald, it was an attack.
(CROSSTALK)
KASICH: If you're not going to have my back, I'm going to have my back. Let me say a couple things here. First of all...
MODERATOR: Governor -- Governor, you...
KASICH: We have grown -- we have grown...
TRUMP: You should let Jeb speak.
(CROSSTALK)
(CHEERS)
STELTER: So that was the most tweeted about moment of the night. But the second most commented moment was actually involving a debate about the tax code. There was a lot of substance at this debate. And we'll see how that translates to viewership.
You know, these debates have been incredibly high rated. I think largely to Donald Trump. We see 10 million to 20 million people watching the debates earlier this summer and into the fall. This debate is likely to get at least over 10 million viewers, which will mean the debate season remains one of the biggest shows on all of television -- entertainment, sports or news -- these debates continue to draw in big audiences.
John, Christine, back to you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BERMAN: All right. Thanks, Brian.
The Obama administration will take the fight over the president's immigration reform plan to the Supreme Court. The White House decision comes after an appeals panel upheld an injunction by a Texas federal judge blocking the president's initiative that would protect nearly 5 million undocumented immigrants from deportation. Twenty-six states have challenged the legality of the Obama plan.
ROMANS: The University of Missouri campus on edge this morning. Campus police are now investigating threats of violence made on social media but say there is no active threat currently. Police say security has been increased and the school is taking extra precautions.
Meantime, Missouri communications professor Mellissa Click (ph), she is apologizing now for trying to block media access to the campus protest. This online video you are watching here shows her confronting a student photographer and a cameraman, she is calling for muscle to have them removed.
She has also resigned a special courtesy appointment in the journalism school. That got a lot of attention, a few days earlier, she was asking for help covering what was happening there.
BERMAN: A freedom of the press kind of is a selective issue.
Investigators are trying to figure out what caused a small business jet to crash in Akron, Ohio, killing everyone on board. Look at. Authorities say the twin engine plane went down close to the airport clipping electrical wires before crashing into an apartment complex.
[04:20:02] No one on ground was injured. Authorities have not confirmed the number killed on the plane. But as the owner says there were nine people on board.
ROMANS: All right. Egypt now allowing the U.S. to help investigate that deadly Russian plane crash. We are live with new developments next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BERMAN: U.S. investigators are standing by ready to help figure out what caused MetroJet Flight 9268 to crash in Egypt's Sinai desert. U.S. sources tell CNN that Egypt has accepted an offer upheld from the National Transportation Safety Board. The NTSB team will assist in what brought down the Russian jetliner from Sharm el-Sheikh.
[04:25:01] Let's bring in CNN's Ian Lee.
Ian, what's the latest here? Where are we now in this investigation?
IAN LEE, CNN REPORTER: Well, good morning, John.
And the NTSB will be coming to Egypt to look at the engines, in particular. These engines were manufactured in the United States. They'll be looking to see if they were possibly reamed to the cause of this crash.
The Egyptians are not ruling out anything at this point. But this will be crucial. The Egyptian have said this is one of their theories, the NTSB will be able determine if it did or if it didn't happen.
But we are also learning as well the hours between that crash happening and that information released, we are told all that information was locked down, so that there could be an investigation. And also so no one can tamper with the CCTV footage of the scanners, the monitors at the airport.
And also, everyone was also interrogated, interviewed by state security here in Egypt -- everyone from the person that checked them in to handle their bags, also the caterers.
So, Egypt is not ruling out any possibility at this hour, although predominant theory is right now that it was a bomb that took down that plane.
BERMAN: All right. Ian Lee at Sharm el-Sheikh with the latest on the investigation, thanks so much.
ROMANS: All right. Republicans running for president, they face off on the economy. There were some heated moments. We're going to tell you who came out on top.
BERMAN: I like the fact that they're moving in a different direction. Look at the move.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
