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Early Start with John Berman and Zoraida Sambolin

GOP Debate: Winners & Losers; Immigration Fight Heads to Supreme Court; U.S. to Help Investigate Russian Jet Crash. Aired 4:30- 5a ET

Aired November 11, 2015 - 04:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[04:30:33] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: The Republican presidential candidates debating until just minutes ago, at least that's what it feels like. There were some serious moments, heated exchanges on immigration, foreign policy. The question we have for you: who came out on top?

Welcome back to EARLY START, everyone. I'm John Berman.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Christine Romans. It is 31 minutes past the hour.

Last night, it was the different kind of a Republican debate. The Fox Business debate was -- it was light on personal attacks, and name- calling and mud slinging, and stronger on argument, on the substance -- immigration, military intervention, tax policy.

And this debate was filled with heated moments.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If Putin wants to go and knock the hell out of ISIS, I am all for it 100 percent. And I can't understand how anybody would be against it. They blew up -- hold it. They blew up -- wait a minute. They blew up a Russian airplane.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald -- Donald is wrong on this. He is absolutely wrong on this. We are not going to be the world's policemen, but we sure as heck better be the world's leader.

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: All I'm suggesting, we can't ship 11 million people out of this country. Children would be terrified, and it will not work.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: -- built an unbelievable company worth billions and billions of dollars. I don't have to hear from this man, believe me. I don't have to hear from him.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Ronald Reagan was strong, but Ronald Reagan didn't --

CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: -- Ronald Reagan walked away at Reykjavik.

PAUL: -- send troops into the Middle East.

FIORINA: -- he walked away, he quit talking --

PAUL: Can I finish my time?

FIORINA: -- when it was time to quit talking.

PAUL: Can I finish my time?

TRUMP: Why does she keep interrupting everybody?

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: Terrible.

(BOOING)

PAUL: Yes, I would like to finish my response, basically.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Why would you then bail out rich Wall Street banks, but not Main Street, not Mom and Pop, not Sabina Loving?

KASICH: I wouldn't. I wouldn't.

CRUZ: But you just said an executive --

KASICH: No. No, I didn't say that.

CRUZ: -- knows to step in and bail out a bank.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROMANS: All right. For the very latest, let's get to chief political correspondent Dana Bash in Milwaukee.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: John and Christine, the moderators of this debate promised that it would be substantive and pristine on the issues that you talk about all the time, on jobs, the economy and fiscal policy, and they delivered on that.

But one of the issues that certainly has to do with this but is something that is of great interest in the Republican primary voters is immigration, and the differences between the Republican candidates on that.

And so, one of the most fascinating moments was when Donald Trump talked about his plan to get rid of all of the undocumented immigrants in this country and John Kasich came back at him and just, that's just not realistic.

KASICH: Come on, folks. We all know you can't pick them up and ship them across, back across the border. It's a silly argument. It is not an adult argument. It makes no sense.

(APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: All I can say is, you're lucky in Ohio that you struck oil. That's for one thing.

(LAUGHTER)

Let me just tell you that Dwight Eisenhower, good president, great president, people liked him. "I like Ike," right? The expression. "I like Ike."

Moved a 1.5 million illegal immigrants out of this country, moved them just beyond the border. They came back.

Moved them again beyond the border, they came back. Didn't like it. Moved them way south. They never came back.

(LAUGHTER)

Dwight Eisenhower.

BASH: There were lots of other pointed exchanges between the candidates, for example, on foreign policy, Rand Paul who calls himself a form of isolationist. He went at it with Marco Rubio, giving Marco Rubio one of his best moments of the debate, giving him the opportunity to articulate why he thinks it's important for the United States to have a powerful role in the world.

But when it comes to Marco Rubio, one thing that was missing from this debate that we certainly saw in the last one was the drama between Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio. We didn't see them go after one another. They each stuck to what they wanted to talk, vis-a-vis policy, vis-a-vis their proposals, and their plans and actually pretended like the other wasn't even on the stage -- John and Christine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROMANS: All right, Dana Bash. Thank you for that, Dana.

BERMAN: And the winner is -- let's discuss who came out on top, who did not measure up last night?

We're joined by CNN Politics reporter Jeremy Diamond, live from our Washington bureau.

Jeremy, who do you think had the biggest night?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Well, I think Marco Rubio, once again, had a great night last night. You know, he just hit all of the notes that he needed to hit. In every single answer to every question, you know, he would pivot to his personal story which is, you know, the story of the American dream of being the son of immigrants, immigrant parents and kind of moving from, you know, low -- you know, low status to kind of coming in, becoming a senator and running for president now.

[04:35:17] And he was able to kind of tie that into every question, while also pivoting to attacking the Democrats and, you know, overall just really hitting all of the right notes.

BERMAN: It was interesting to me, Jeremy, in addition to control and what message he would get involved. He was also able to dodge things that would be complicated for him. There was really an interesting exchange on immigration and what to do with the undocumented immigrants in this country.

And Marco Rubio somehow managed to stay separate from that discussion, despite the fact that he was part of a big immigration plan at one point in the Senate, and may be something moderators could have or should have pushed him on.

DIAMOND: Yes, I think, definitely, Marco Rubio could have had some tougher questions and that might have changed some of the debate. You know, not only did he not get questions, to have to address that immigration debate, but he also didn't get any questions about his personal finances, which have recently been in headlines due to his use of a Republican Party of Florida, American Express card, which he used for personal charges. So, you know, there were certainly a lot of questions he could have had to address.

You know, Ben Carson had to address the issue about his autobiography and the questions swirling around that issue. And Marco Rubio didn't. So, who knows how different it would have been?

But again, in last debate, Marco Rubio was prepared to answer those questions, it seems. So, I'm not sure how much of a difference it would have made.

ROMANS: Let's talk a little bit about the timing here. Ben Carson with the least amount of time on the stage, but, you know, he was mild mannered, he was typical Ben Carson. And that's I guess what he needed to do.

DIAMOND: Yes, absolutely. You know, just like Jeb Bush in the last debate, did terribly, need to reboot his campaign and launch the "Jeb can fix it" slogan, Ben Carson's has been if it ain't broke, don't fix it. He really hasn't had to. He did exactly the same thing, kind of sticking to his personality and sticking to why voters have been resonating with him, which is his mild manners, his kind of more reserved style and, you know, he still did address the issues in a way that resonates with a lot of folks.

So, Ben Carson didn't need to have any fireworks last night. He didn't need to take big shots at anybody and he was able to kind of accomplish all of that while staying out or above the fray depending on which way you look at it.

BERMAN: So, what about Donald Trump. I mean, you know, we saw some moments. We played some moments there where he told, you know, he complained about Carly Fiorina butting in, that got booed. He cut John Kasich down in a big way, that got pretty much booed.

ROMANS: Donald Trump's hand motions are an art of themselves. Have you noticed?

BERMAN: It's interesting, you know? But it seems to me he gave his supporters what they wanted to see, and the people who don't like that kind of thing, they already don't like Donald Trump.

DIAMOND: Yes, I think so, too. But I also think there is a possibility he could have increased his appeal. You know, aside from that real testy exchange with Kasich. Donald Trump didn't give you the same Donald Trump that you see on the campaign stump, which is to say that on the campaign stump, Donald Trump is constantly fired up, and, you know, leveling personal barbs, whether it's Ben Carson who he didn't address last night. He didn't go after him at all, even though he's been doing that for weeks now.

So it's really interesting to see him do that, for weeks, attack Ben Carson, attack Marco Rubio. And then he didn't do that in the debate. He didn't call Marco Rubio a lightweight, for example. He didn't point out that he's weak on immigration.

Donald Trump was really focused on showing voters that he is a serious candidate, I think. And that's something that he did in the last debate, and I think it's something we'll continue to see him do, which is an interesting change in tactic.

BERMAN: What about Rand Paul? Rand Paul was on stage last night. I think we seen something different than before.

DIAMOND: Yes, certainly, Rand Paul was there last night. And I think in the past debates, we've kind of been wondering where Rand Paul has been. He hasn't had any of his breakout moments.

Last night, he came out and represented the libertarian faction of the Republican Party. The non-interventionist faction of the Republican Party, which, you know, he presented those arguments of we shouldn't be entangled in foreign conflicts in a way that folks like Marco Rubio and Jeb Bush and others are arguing as far as putting boots on the ground in Iraq to combat ISIS.

ROMANS: He was very clear. He said, how do you spend hundreds of billions on defense? And that is a conservative principle, I mean, in terms of a fiscally conservative principle. He really staked his claim on that.

DIAMOND: Right. He really challenged Marco Rubio on that even. He said, you know, how can you be a conservative when you want to spends billions and billions on, you know, the U.S. military? He pointed out the U.S. spends more on the military than the next, you know, 10 countries combined or whatever the statistic was that he threw out there.

[04:40:08] So, he was definitely laying out that argument, and I think he made an effective case last night.

I think he was kind of overwhelmed because he is outside of the mainstream of the Republican Party on that. Which is really dominated by that more hawkish neo-conservative foreign policy focus.

ROMANS: All right, Jeremy. Thank you so much. We will talk to you very soon. So much to analyze this morning.

More to analyze in terms of the minimum wage. You know, Democrats, pretty much united are trying to raise the minimum wage. But Donald Trump, Marco Rubio and Ben Carson have all said they would not want to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour. And Carson -- Carson said in this debate, a higher minimum wage would kill jobs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Every time we raise the minimum wage, the number of jobless people increases. It's particularly a problem in the black community. Only 19.8 percent of black teenagers have a job, who are looking for one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: And he's saying that if you keep raising the minimum wage, black teenager will have less of an opportunity to get that job.

Let's look at that claim that you always see jobs lost when you raise the minimum wage. Here's what the CNN reality check finds. In 1997, the minimum wage rose, unemployment fell steadily each month for several years. It has happened at other times as well in 1950, in 1961, '67, '78 and 1996.

So, the reality check on that with CNN, that is false.

Also only 20 percent of African-Americans age 16 to 19 have a job. That is a number that is frankly too low. It does not mean 80 percent of them are unemployed. Many are in school and are not looking. If you are not looking for a job, you are not considered unemployed.

The unemployment rate for that age bracket 25.6 percent -- not exactly what low wage protesters were hoping to hear. Of course, the fight for $15 is around the country.

These are pictures from Tuesday. Fast food workers, home child and health care workers, they are rallying for higher wages. New York's Democratic Governor Andrew Cuomo just announced a $15 minimum wage for all state workers, which is interesting there. There is this move across the country for higher minimum wages.

There is a big debate and will it hurt jobs? We're talking about $15 or even higher. But many of these candidates, the Republican candidates do not like to see a higher minimum wage.

BERMAN: Another group of folks who are being judged on their performance last night -- not the candidates, but the folks who ran the debate. How did they do? We'll break it down, next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[04:46:45] BERMAN: All right. One of the big questions about the Republican debate was about the questions, or more specifically, the people asking them.

The Fox Business Network was the host. This after CNBC was bashed by Republican officials last time around. Last night, the candidates, at least, they seem pretty happy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I thought it was great. I thought the moderators were elegant. I thought the questions were really, really on point.

FIORINA: So, I think the moderators stuck to the issues. I think we each had time to make our point.

PAUL: I thought it was a good debate. I thought I got more time, got to express my opinions. I had a few opinions I wanted to express.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Let's get more on this. Senior media correspondent Brian in Milwaukee -- Brian.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Hey, John, hey, Christine.

The reviews are in, and they're very positive for the Fox Business Network, definitely a lot more positive than they were for the CNBC debate two weeks ago.

The moderators of the CNBC debate were almost universally criticized for the tone of their questions and letting the debate get out of control.

What we saw from the moderators on Fox Business, it was a more controlled debate. There were only a few times where it seemed like the candidates took over.

One of those times was when Donald Trump acted like a moderator. Here's what he said about Jeb Bush.

TRUMP: They moved a 1.5 million out. We have no choice. We have no choice.

(CROSSTALK)

MODERATOR: Governor Bush --

KASICH: Jerry, Gerald, it was an attack.

(CROSSTALK) KASICH: If you're not going to have my back, I'm going to have my back. Let me say a couple things here. First of all...

MODERATOR: Governor -- Governor, you...

KASICH: We have grown -- we have grown...

TRUMP: You should let Jeb speak.

(CROSSTALK)

(CHEERS)

STELTER: So that was the most tweeted about moment of the night. But the second most commented moment was actually involving a debate about the tax code. There was a lot of substance at this debate. And we'll see how that translates to viewership.

You know, these debates have been incredibly high rated. I think largely to Donald Trump. We see 10 million to 20 million people watching the debates earlier this summer and into the fall. This debate is likely to get at least over 10 million viewers, which will mean the debate season remains one of the biggest shows on all of television -- entertainment, sports or news -- these debates continue to draw in big audiences.

John, Christine, back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROMANS: All right. Brian Stelter in Milwaukee, thank you for that, Brian.

The Obama administration will take the fight over the president's immigration reform plan to the Supreme Court. The White House decision comes after an appeals panel upheld an injunction by a Texas federal judge blocking President Obama's initiatives that would protect nearly 5 million undocumented immigrants from deportation. Twenty-six states have challenged the legality of the Obama plan.

BERMAN: The University of Missouri campus on edge. Campus police now investigating threats of violence made on social media. But they say there is no active threat at this point. Police security has been increased and the school is taking extra cautions.

Missouri communications professor Mellissa Click, she apologized for trying to block media access to a campus protest. This online video shows her confronting a student photographer and a cameraman calling for muscle to have him removed. She has resigned a special courtesy appointment to the journalism school.

ROMANS: Investigators are trying to figure out what caused a small business jet to crash in Akron, Ohio, killing everyone on board.

[04:50:02] Authorities say the twin engine plane went down as it approached the Akron airport, clipping electrical wires before crashing into a building in an apartment complex. No one on the ground was injured. Authorities have not confirmed the number killed on the plane. But its owner says there were nine people on board.

All right. Donald Trump pointing to one great president. A great president he says who deported illegal immigrants. The hard truth Trump failed to mention that went along with that deportation, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: U.S. investigators -- U.S. investigators are now standing by, ready to help figure out what caused MetroJet Flight 9268 to crash in Egypt's Sinai desert.

[04:55:05] American sources tell CNN that Egypt has accepted an offer of help from the National Transportation Safety Board. The NTSB team will assist in determining what brought down that Russian jet.

Let's get the latest from Sharm el-Sheikh. CNN's Ian Lee is there.

Good morning, Ian.

IAN LEE, CNN REPORTER: Good morning.

Yes, the NTSB is going to be analyzing parts of that jet, specifically, the engine, which is made in the United States, to determine if that could have been a part of the cause that brought down this jet.

Right now, Egyptian officials fought ruling out any potential calls, although the predominant theory right now is that it was a bomb that took down this jet. The FBI could also be a part of this team that comes over here and one area, specifically, they can help out with is analyzing that loud sound that's heard on the voice recorder in the final moments of that plane crash. Now, we are not hearing if they are going to be analyzing that.

Also, we are hearing that Egypt is stepping up security at the airports. They have new scanners in places right now to scan the luggage before it goes on to planes. I'm also hearing about the moments that took place, right when the plane crash, to before they released that information to the public.

A source at the airport told me that they seized all the information pertaining to the flight they took the CCTV cameras, scanners, the sensors, all information, so that it couldn't be tampered with and be -- and so, it could be investigated, also hearing that everyone involved in that plane, from the person that checked them in, to the person that handled their bags, to the caterer. They all have been interviewed by state security here individually so that they could use that information in this investigation and we are hearing that parts of this lane could start being taken to Cairo, to reproduce that plane, put it together and to continue this investigation.

BERMAN: Yes, the chain of custody and the flow chart of who was, where at one point, that would be so crucial here.

Ian Lee, thank you so much.

ROMANS: International talks to resolve the crisis in Syria starts Saturday in Vienna. And the Russians may be coming to the table with a plan. Several media outlets have obtained an 8-point proposal drawn out by officials in Moscow, calling for an 18-month constitutional reform period in Syria, followed by early presidential elections. The plan does not rule out President Bashar al-Assad's participation in the election. Russia's foreign ministry is denying that plan even exists.

BERMAN: Six U.S. fighter jets are headed to Turkey where they will protect slower flying U.S. attack planes that are hitting ISIS targets in Syria. The Pentagon says the F-15C jets will cover a cargo plane and be used to deter Russian aggression. That's part of the Defense Department's revamp strategy to defeat ISIS. Fifty U.S. Special Operations troops are also being sent to the region.

ROMANS: All right. Let's an early start on your money this morning. A good day for stocks around the world so far. European shares are up. So are U.S. stock futures.

In mega merger news, Anheuser-Busch finalized its agreement to buy SABMiller. Bud Miller will be the world's largest beer maker by far, with annual sales of $55 billion.

BERMAN: And not American.

ROMANS: That's right.

All right. CNN reality check on an immigration claim made last night in the debate. Donald Trump noted one great president, Dwight Eisenhower, deported illegal immigrants just as Trump would if he is elected.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Moved a million-and-a-half illegal immigrants out of this country. Moved them just beyond the border, they came back. Moved them again, beyond the border, they came back. Didn't like it. Moved them way south, they never came back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: Eisenhower's policy was named Operation Wetback. It was implemented in 1944. It deported undocumented immigrants deep into Mexico. Now, many of them were brought to the United States through wartime programs and their temporary contracts were not renewed.

Now, the exact number of people deported is unclear. One detail Trump left out, the transfer process was widely criticized as inhumane at the time and later, in fact, some people were dropped off without resources in the desert. Sometime people died from heat stroke. Others drowned during transports from overloaded ships.

The CNN reality check, Trump's claim is true but misleading.

BERMAN: All right. EARLY START continues right now.

A big moment for Republicans with some big arguments on the debate stage. Who won? Who lost? Who came out looking better than before? We'll discuss it all.

Good morning, everyone. Welcome to EARLY START. I'm John Berman.

ROMANS: You look the same as you did yesterday. I'll be honest.

BERMAN: I wear a lot of makeup. I wear a lot of makeup.

ROMANS: Your performance is exactly the same.

I'm Christine Romans. It is Wednesday, November 11th. It's 5:00 a.m. in the East.

Last night, it was a different kind of a Republican debate. The Fox Business Debate was light on personal attacks and on name-calling, mud slinging, and I would say stronger in substantive argument.