Return to Transcripts main page

Early Start with John Berman and Zoraida Sambolin

Trump Wins Nevada Caucuses; Sanders & Clinton Battle for South Carolina Votes. Aired 4-4:30a ET

Aired February 24, 2016 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My mom's fiance was already running into the bathroom with his parents and I got in the bath tub with my dog.

[04:00:07] And they were praying. I was crying. And I was so scared. I mean, the house was shaking. I mean, it was just -- it was terrible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: More devastation in Lamar County, Mississippi. A 73-year-old man was killed when his home was crushed by an unconfirmed tornado.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Top of the hour. EARLY START continues right now.

(MUSIC)

BERMAN: All right. Donald Trump with a blowout victory in Nevada, just dominating the caucuses there. He won almost every demographic group, almost every county. How, will, is there any way to stop him?

ROMANS: Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders shifting their strategy, taking tough questions from voters on the CNN town hall stage. The crucial South Carolina primary now just days away.

BERMAN: All right. Good morning, everybody. Welcome to EARLY START. I'm John Berman.

ROMANS: I'm Christine Romans. Really very night. So much news to get to. It's Wednesday, February 24th, it is 4:00 a.m. in the East.

BERMAN: The breaking news this morning, look at this -- Donald Trump with a huge win in the Nevada caucuses, the Republican caucuses. There you can see, 74 percent of precincts reporting now, Donald Trump, 45 percent, more than 20 points ahead of his closest rival.

Now, as we sit here, there's a pitch battle for second place. It's been going back and forth over the last several hours. But just a few minutes ago, Marco Rubio pulled ahead, more than 500 votes, 580 votes right now ahead of Ted Cruz with 74 percent of the precincts.

And we're counting this all night. It could change again. And for these guys, second place matters, because don't forget, when you win second in this Republican race right now, you claim the biggest victor ever. Ben Carson and John Kasich, they are back in single digits.

The big story night is Donald Trump. He leads in all counties in the state right now. Entrance polls show Trump hugely popular among voters who say they were angry at the federal government, and more voters are angry in Nevada than we've seen before.

Among those who say they want the next pretty to be an outsider, not someone experienced in politics, Donald Trump crushes it there too. In his victory speech just a short time ago, Donald Trump, he was ecstatic about his win. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We won the evangelicals, we won with young, we won with old, we won with highly educated, we won with poorly educated. I love the poorly educated. With the smartest people, with the most loyal people.

And you know what I really am happy about? Because I've been saying it for a long time. Forty-six percent with Hispanics, 46 percent. Number one with Hispanics.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

I'm really happy about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Entrance polls did in fact show that.

All right. Look at delegate count right now. Donald Trump with the growing lead, more than twice as all the other candidates combined. Now, all of these candidates look to Super Tuesday with so many more delegates at stake.

ROMANS: All right. Joining us to help break down the Nevada results is CNN Politics reporter Tal Kopan in our Washington bureau.

Good morning.

I mean, this is another decisive victor for Donald Trump. Donald Trump in his speech last night, really -- a warmly received speech, he was really fired up. I mean, he made a point that is so interesting. He talked about how so many people in the media and Republican establishment, that's presumably who he was talking about, find ways to take his victories and try to undermine them.

He said, look, tomorrow morning they're going to be finding ways to add everybody up and find ways to beat me, but they can't. Listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: So, tonight we had 45 percent, 46 percent, and tomorrow, you'll be hearing, you know, if they could just take the other candidates and add them up, and if you could add them up, because you know the other candidates amount to 55 percent.

They keep forgetting that when people drop out, we're going to get a lot of votes. They keep forgetting. They don't say it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: Do you think he's right on that? Or do you think that -- you know, the Donald Trump supporters are diehard Donald Trump supporters, and has he got them, or is he going to be able to lure some of these other Republican supporters into his camp?

TAL KOPAN, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: I think if there's anything we've learned this election cycle is that we probably shouldn't predict a ceiling because he's defied everyone we've tried to put on him. You know, it's a classic sort of, "so you're saying there's a chance" kind of thing. I mean, yes, it's technically possible that one of the other candidates, if they were able to consolidate all of the non- Trump voters could possibly take him on, but it's a slimmer and slimmer chance.

[04:05:04] And there is no indication that his momentum is going to stop rolling. And, you know, he and many of the other candidates have loved to take credit for it. But the Republican turnout cycle has been breaking records left and right. It's incredibly high. There are a lot of new voters coming out, and it's hard to argue the fact that many of them are excited about Donald Trump. You know, we can spin any which we like. There's no denying he's on a bit of a roll here.

BERMAN: You know, let the record show that after 4:04 a.m., after having not slept for 36 straight hours, Tal Kopan just made a "Dumb and Dumber" reference on national TV.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: And we love that. So, thank you. Thank you so much for that.

Talk about what the voters say they wanted in Nevada, because they were angrier than other states and they want it -- and with that anger, they wanted an outsider more than we've seen in other states.

KOPAN: Absolutely. I believe it was about two-thirds or so who wanted an outsider versus someone who represented the Republican establishment. And that's something we' been seeing all the way along. You know, there's a lot of really interesting stuff that's been written and, in fact, about comparisons between Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders.

There is something in the electorate this year or something in the air that these candidates have tapped into, where voters really, really want something different. They're really frustrated with Washington. That's why you see the candidates who are from Washington. It doesn't get much more Washington than two senators running away

from that record. Marco Rubio saying he doesn't want to be in the Senate anymore, Ted Cruz staking himself as a sort of anti-Senate senator.

There's no doubt that voters want an outsider. They want someone who gets the sense that they were frustrated and angry and Donald Trump has really embodied that for them.

ROMANS: You have to wonder what that means for elections going forward for some of these people in the Senate and the House. I mean, you know, think about it, think about it. Voters are saying they're very angry with what Washington has or hasn't done over the past few years.

Interesting, though, Marco Rubio in the entrance polling, there was one category that he did win and that was the category essentially people who think that he wanted experience, people who did want experience wanted Marco Rubio, and he hasn't been in this Senate all that long even.

KOPAN: Yes. And, you know, he paints himself as a 1-year conservative. That's a new part of his stump speech he's put in there in the past weeks. He goes back to his time in the Florida legislature as a speaker of the House there in Florida, and, of course, in the Senate.

You know, one other interesting thing about some of Marco Rubio's numbers is he tends to get supported by people who make up their midnights late, the people who make up their minds right before caucus day or primary day tend to go for him. He does have lock on the sort of electability argument.

But, you know, I spoke to one voter in South Carolina that I can't get out of my mind who I was talking to and asked her, you know, do other primaries influenced her vote? And she said, you know what, I have voted for the candidate they've been told has a chance in November before and it didn't work and I'm not going to get burned again.

And I think that's what you're seeing with the Republican Party more than voters who do want someone that can eventually take on the Democrat as they've done in the past.

BERMAN: Talk to us about Marco Rubio now in his plan. He got out of Nevada yesterday, held one event there and then he moved on to compete in some of these Super Tuesday states. He's picking up just a slew of establishment support right now, endorsement after endorsement, big fund-raisers lining up behind him.

But, look, you know, he got the governor in South Carolina to back hip. He lost South Carolina. He got the sitting senator in Nevada to support him along with a number of congressmen there, and he still could not do that well in Nevada either. You know, this is a challenge for Marco Rubio going forward even with all of the establishment support. KOPAN: Absolutely. You know what? It feeds the narrative against

him that he's of Washington, of the party ilk, that they're trying to throw out. There are plenty of voters that endorsement is a big turn- off.

Now, it does help him put some weight behind the argument that the other candidates in the race need to back out. It helps out with donors and getting more money. Of course, that's the only reason to drop out of the campaign is you run out of money, as long as you have support, why not stay in and see what you can do.

So, those things are good for him. There's a website that assigns points for endorsement, and I think he about doubled his point total in 24 hours after Jeb Bush dropped out of the race. So, things are moving in his favor. The question is, are there enough people who care about the establishment, and is it too late to slow Donald Trump's momentum?

ROMANS: Just 664 votes separating Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz, 80 percent of the precincts reporting. You know, at some point, when you're getting third place --

BERMAN: Can I just --

ROMANS: Yes.

BERMAN: It's just dumb math. If you add up Rubio and Cruz, it's equal to Donald Trump. So, for all the talk about, you know, winnowing the field and dropping out, you know, it's -- Donald Trump is just winning by a lot.

ROMANS: All right. Tal Kopan, thank you so much.

KOPAN: Thank you.

BERMAN: All right. The next big night comes tomorrow in this Republican race.

[04:10:04] The five remaining candidates, they will be on the debate stage in Houston. Wolf Blitzer moderates. This is a crucial debate. Maybe the last time these candidates will have to knock Donald Trump off his perch. Eight-thirty p.m. tomorrow, only on CNN.

ROMANS: All right. More excitement for you this morning. Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton making their final pitch to voters in South Carolina with a shift in tone and strategy for each candidate on stage in a CNN town hall. We're breaking down the very big moments, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: All right. Breaking news: the numbers coming in from Nevada, the election results from the Republican caucuses there. Right now with 81 precincts reporting, Donald Trump way out in front, 45.5 percent of the vote -- a blowout for Donald Trump.

There's been a battle for second place all evening long. Very tight between Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, been going back and forth.

But right now, look at this -- Marco Rubio opening up the lead. He leads now by 1 percent. A little bit more, a little less than 700 votes right now separate Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz. The other candidates John Kasich and Ben Carson, they are in single digits. But big, big, big morning for Donald Trump.

We'll follow these results all morning long as they come in and bring them to you live.

ROMANS: Also breaking overnight, Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton making their best case for their candidacies at the CNN Democratic town hall in Columbia, South Carolina. Both Clinton and sanders confronting racial issues in a state where African-Americans play a major role in the outcome of the Democratic primary.

[04:15:05] That's on Saturday.

All right. Right now polls show Clinton with a strong lead in South Carolina. She is outpacing Sanders nearly 2-1.

There was a tense moment when CNN's Chris Cuomo asked Secretary Clinton why she's not heeded Sanders' call to release of the paid speeches she gave to Wall Street bankers.

Senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny has more on that in South Carolina.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: John and Christine, Wall Street is one of the major issues of this Democratic presidential campaign, at least when it comes to some critics of Hillary Clinton.

Now, the topic of her paid speeches to Goldman Sachs and other Wall Street firms has been one of the issues throughout the course of this campaign. It was no exception that that Democratic town hall on Tuesday night here in South Carolina, major differences between how Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton address this.

Take a listen to what Bernie Sanders said about the paid speeches he has or hasn't given during his career.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Look, I've not had a paid speech. It's against the law to give paid speeches. I have given some speeches and money was donated to charity way, way back. I got a few dollars. If I can find the transcripts, I'm very, very happy to do it.

But what Secretary Clinton said, I will do it if other people do it. Well, I am very happy to release all of my paid speeches to Wall Street. Here it is, Chris. There ain't none.

ZELENY: Hillary Clinton said a different standard is being used for her. She said that she would onto give up her transcripts if Republicans did the same. Listen to how she explained.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All the more reason to move this as an issue. You know everybody is not going to bring up their transcripts. There will be --

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Why is there one standard for me and not for everybody else, Chris? I mean, you know, at some point, at some point -- you know, look, I'm on record. I have a record.

It certainly is far different from the Republicans because they think actually and have said the cause of the Great Recession was too much regulation on Wall Street, which is an absolute joke. I have been up fronted and strong on this issue for a long time, as strong I would argue as my esteemed opponent.

So, you know what? If people are going to ask for things, everybody should be on a level playing field and I'm happy if that were the case.

ZELENY: Now, this is just one of the issues driving this Democratic campaign. Of course, a lot of Bernie Sanders supporters are concerned about this, but overall Hillary Clinton has a commanding lead here in South Carolina.

Issues of race also were front and center during the Democratic town hall. It's hard to believe any minds might have been changed by this Democratic town hall. Bernie Sanders is going to be campaigning in Super Tuesday states. Hillary Clinton is going to stay in South Carolina looking for a strong finish on Saturday -- John and Christine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROMANS: Thanks, Jeff.

BERMAN: Our thanks to Jeff for that.

All right. Let's bring back in CNN political reporter Tal Kopan to help us understand what happened at that CNN Democratic town hall last night.

You saw Hillary Clinton dealing with the Wall Street issue. One other issue she's had to deal with in this campaign is really why young people are going in overwhelming numbers to Bernie Sanders. Why she's having a problem winning their support and trust.

Listen to what she told one voter last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you think has been causing this common generational gap that I see so many places between your supporters and Senator Sanders supporters? CLINTON: Well, I'm not sure to be honest. I really don't know. But

I want you to know that whether you end up supporting me or not, I will support you, and I will support the young people in this country, because that has been -- that has been my life's work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: It's almost as if she's saying, there's nothing I can do about it. I'm going have to compete with others to beat Bernie Sanders with other voters.

KOPAN: Yes. And it's certainly not the age factor because, of course, Bernie Sanders is older than her.

But, you know, it's an issue that's come up to her time and time again. There's no doubt that Bernie Sanders has captured an electricity that her campaign just hasn't been able to match, whether it's the size of his rallies or sort of the rabidness of the fan base.

But, you know, she handled that question pretty effectively and spoke more with that student. She was the law student who was concerned about her level of debt. And Hillary Clinton really made a connection with that young woman, talked about her own debt, really broke down what an interest payment is like and what an interest rate can do to a student debt.

So, she found a way to connect with that young woman, but I think she has sort of shrugged a little bit and said, I don't think I can compete with Bernie Sanders for the excitement of young people and it's hurt her a bit at the polls, but she's found ways to bolster her numbers with older people who come out to vote a little more reliably.

ROMANS: It's interesting, because on the student debt, and college -- paying for college, Hillary Clinton for a long time has had very detailed proposals, being able to finance the rate, who to keep the debt down in the first place. But Bernie Sanders says we want free college paid for with the tax and speculation on Wall Street.

[04:20:04] That resonates with the young people. The idea resonates more than the actual policy. That's what I think has been troubling for Hillary Clinton.

Let's listen to the second part of that answer with that same voter where Hillary Clinton gets down into the nitty-gritty, into the details about how she would help the voter. You make a very good point how she's nodding along and get what Hillary Clinton is trying to do -- this personal connection Hillary Clinton is trying to make.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: I want you to be able to refinance your debt at a lower interest rate. It makes no sense at all that you're paying -- do you know what your interest rate is?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's between 7 percent and 9 percent and I know I'm already $75,000 in debt, and I'm only halfway through. CLINTON: You know, I want everybody to understand this. She borrowed

money for the principal and to be able to pay her fees to go to law school, and I would bet a good percentage of what you now owe is because of the interest, a 7 percent and 9 percent interest rate, when we haven't had those interest rates for years. It makes absolutely no sense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: Yes, interest rate is like 2 percent for a 10-year money. She's getting high marks for how she handled that voter.

KOPAN: Yes. You know, she's really able to make a personal connection. That has been the complaint about her campaign from the beginning. I think we all remember when the campaign announced she was going to be more spontaneous now. It was sort of widely ridiculed.

But we've seen her hit her stride a little more in recent weeks in her ability to seem comfortable and warm and connect with voters. And absolutely, when you're having a wonky policy debate, being able to hold up a lofty goal the way Bernie Sanders does and says, no, I want to go straight to free college is a lot easier for people to understand than sort of getting into -- well, I want this tweak to policy and I want this change here. It's not a bumper sticker kind of message.

And so, that was a good moment for her to be able to speak to a person in very real terms and talk about one person's student loans and really drive the point she wants to make home that way.

BERMAN: All right.

ROMANS: Interesting.

BERMAN: Tal Kopan, thank you so much. You know, in a little bit, we're going to talk about Bernie Sanders, with some new outreach and new embrace of Barack Obama. So, we'll talk about that shortly. Thanks, Tal.

All right. Meanwhile, Donald Trump with a big, big win in Nevada. Right now, you know, he's up 15,000 votes, more than 20 percent, with 80 percent in. There is a race for second place, Marco Rubio pulling ahead in the last few minutes. We're covering that all morning long.

But first, stunning new information about the Uber driver accused of the deadly shooting spree between picking up fares. We'll tell you what we're learning about his mental health, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[04:26:43] ROMANS: Police in Kalamazoo, Michigan, say the suspect in a deadly shooting rampage had no history of mental illness. Forty- five-year-old Jason Brian Dalton is charged with killing six people at random during this weekend's shooting spree. Two others were seriously wounded including a 14-year-old girl. Authorities say Dalton did not have a gun license. One victim died

while protecting her children from the gunfire.

Police have no motive for the shootings. Dalton is being held in segregation in the Kalamazoo County jail. It's a terrifying story. He was taking fares as an Uber driver between these shootings.

BERMAN: All right. A big, big night in Nevada. Donald Trump, a huge victory in the Nevada caucuses. There is a second place, though over the last few minutes, Marco Rubio pulling further and further ahead. We will have the latest numbers crunch coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)