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Early Start with John Berman and Zoraida Sambolin

Super Tuesday Results; Trump and Clinton Big Winners. Aired 3- 4a ET

Aired March 02, 2016 - 03:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[03:00:00] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm going to go after one person. That's Hillary Clinton on the assumption she's allowed to run, which is a big assumption. I don't know that she's going to be allowed to run.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEWSROOM SHOW HOST: All right. Donald Trump not the only winner. Ted Cruz picked up two victories as well, his home State of Texas. And also an important win for Ted Cruz in Oklahoma. And Marco Rubio. Marco Rubio in the win column. His first and only victory in the race so far. He won the Minnesota caucuses.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN NEWSROOM SHOW HOST: On the democratic side, Hillary Clinton with a big night, winning in seven states, Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Massachusetts, Tennessee, Texas, and Virginia.

Bernie Sanders picking up four wins, his home State of Vermont, Oklahoma, and Minnesota. Now Hillary Clinton in her victory speech this evening, she took aim straight at Donald Trump's campaign theme.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's clear tonight that the stakes in this election have never been higher, and the rhetoric we're hearing on the other side has never been lower.

(CROWD BOOING)

Trying to divide America between us and them is wrong, and we're not going to let it work.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Let's get first to CNN politics and CNN money reporter M.J. Lee, who is in Washington for us this evening -- this morning. You pick. M.J., the headlines, what do you think the big headlines are as we now look forward to what's next?

M.J. LEE, CNN POLITICS & CNN MONEY REPORTER: Look, Super Tuesday was the day that both Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton took very big steps towards the general election and winning the nominations of each of their parties.

For Donald Trump, I think he did as well as he could have expected although as you mentioned, you know, Ted Cruz ended up winning Texas as well as Oklahoma. Not everyone expected him to win, you know, anything other than Texas. So, a better night for Cruz than a lot of people had expected.

But even still, I think the party as, you know, members of the party, Republican Party, wake up this morning on Wednesday, they're waking up to really the political reality that Donald Trump is on his path to being the GOP nominee. And in the coming weeks, you are going to see a flurry of activity, discussions, you know, a lot of strategizing to see if there can be a last-ditch effort to stop Trump's momentum.

And I think at this point there is no concerted effort, and we can't emphasize this enough. There's no concerted effort to really make this happen. I think the window between March 1st and March 15th is really where Republican Party establishment members are looking at to try to stop Trump and try to slow him down. Whether or not that's possible, we'll have to see.

Now, for Hillary Clinton, this was also an important night and a good night for her as well as she was able to show, and after having struggled a little bit in the early states, to really, you know, keep Bernie Sanders away.

Of course we all remember in Iowa, she had a difficult time having a decisive win. She barely actually won in the State of Iowa, in the Iowa caucuses there. And tonight was a moment of celebration for her because she was able to show that she has a national coalition behind her.

BOLDUAN: M.J., stick around with us. Let's bring in the rest of our panel, Josh Rogin, CNN political analyst and Bloomberg View columnist in Washington for us. Dylan Byers, CNN senior reporter for media and politics.

[03:04:59] And in Los Angeles, Maeve Reston, CNN national political reporter along with Ron Brownstein, a CNN senior political analyst and senior editor for The Atlantic. M.J. Lee still with us as well.

Ron, if you look at just the political events going for today and show us the focus of where this race now moves next. John Kasich. He is -- he is in Michigan. A lot of these guys are in Michigan. Marco Rubio, he's going to be in Michigan. Ted Cruz, he's going to be in Kansas.

And you've got Bernie Sanders. He's going to be in Michigan as well. They are so very quickly, as we've seen with every single one of these primaries, Super Tuesday is over, and now the focus is on what's next.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, this first half of March, you have 28 states voting. I mean, more than half of the states are going to be, you know, registering here. And the momentum becomes such a powerful force.

BOLDUAN: Yes. BROWNSTEIN: I mean, to disrupt where Donald Trump is, you know, you need -- you need something to change the dynamic of this race. And one thing that could change the dynamic of the race would be the party leadership on the brink here of kind of we're sensing that, you know, as M.J. said, the hours are dwindling to try to make a concerted stand against Donald Trump.

Unifying in some kind of overwhelming effort to stop him. That doesn't seem like it's going to happen. On the other side, you know, Bernie Sanders, you know, he faces the reality of the democratic coalition as it moves into the more diverse places, consolidating in a way that makes it very, very difficult for him unless he can fundamentally change that dynamic among African-American voters.

So, really what you have on both sides, I think, Kate, are patterns that we saw initially, particularly in South Carolina and Nevada, hardening as you move forward into these -- into these later contests, and the clock kind of ticking very quickly on the candidates who are chasing the frontrunners.

BERMAN: You know, Maeve, it is really interesting hearing from all the campaigns because the Trump people are like, we won by a lot. How come you're not saying we're essentially the presumptive nominee. Then you have the Cruz campaign saying we barely finished second. I mean, we have nearly as many delegates as Donald Trump.

And the Rubio folks what they say, they say, we chipped in. You know, we chipped away big-time at Donald Trump's lead. He underperformed in all the polls. We're coming on strong. We have all the momentum. You know, how do you score what happened tonight, Maeve, in the republican field?

MAEVE RESTON, CNN'S NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, I mean I think this was a dominant night obviously for Donald Trump. But in a sense because there was a mixed result across these different states, everybody can make their own argument even if it's a little bit misleading as we know.

You know, Donald Trump talked tonight about being the unifier for the Republican Party, you know, and tried to project more of a presidential air at that press conference, I guess. You know, but it's just not clear whether or not that's ever going to happen. I mean, obviously we're seeing all of these divisions.

At the same time, Ted Cruz has a very difficult path ahead even though he's highlighting his wins tonight. This was supposed to be his southern firewall tonight, and he didn't pull off the kinds of wins that he was -- people were expecting many months ago.

ANd Marco Rubio is sending out an e-mail to donors talking about how he's the underdog going into Florida, you know, and wants a flood of resources for his campaign. He's got a really difficult argument to make over the next couple of weeks. So, a little bit for everyone to make the arguments, but Donald Trump's night tonight.

BOLDUAN: And I'm just struck by it, and I know a lot of folks are talking about this evening. We can show that video again of Donald Trump, as you said, kind of holding this press conference and a lot of people are kind of thinking maybe he's trying to take on this presidential tone.

But right over his shoulder and the person who introduced him, Chris Christie. That was just an amazing image to watch, Dylan.

DYLAN BYERS, CNN SENIOR MEDIA AND POLITICS REPORTER: Yes, no, it's an absolutely amazing image to watch. And if you happen to be following along with Twitter, you saw that there were many memes and videos of Chris Christie, some of them actually quite funny.

But, no, of course what Donald Trump was trying to do was appear presidential. I mean, if you look at the way Christie introduced him, the way he stood behind him the entire time, it's not just similar from when both President Obama and Joe -- Vice President Joe Biden are in the briefing room together.

By taking a press conference on the night of Super Tuesday rather than giving a victory speech, it certainly sort of strikes this presidential cast, and that's what Trump is trying to do. It's the same thing Hillary Clinton is trying to do on the democratic side. They're effectively trying to stake their claim as the nominees of their party before actually becoming the nominees of their party.

BERMAN: And, Josh, let's just wrap up with a Hillary Clinton thought right here. You know, Hillary Clinton has proven, the Clinton campaign says, that she can win in the south and also in the north. The Massachusetts victory I think is the one that the Clinton campaign is the most proud of today because it is a state that borders Vermont as well.

But, you know, Bernie Sanders, we talk about Ted Cruz winning two, maybe three states on the republican side. You know, Bernie Sanders picked up, you know, four states and some serious delegates.

(CROSSTALK)

[03:09:59] RESTON: And ones that he would have really trying to win. These were a surprise. He really...

BERMAN: Well, that's the point. They make that point.

RESTON: Yes.

BERMAN: They say look, these are the states we targeted. We won the states we targeted except for Massachusetts.

JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: What this shows us is that the Hillary Clinton campaign is still on a trajectory to win the nomination. That basic truth hasn't changed. But there are weaknesses in her campaign, right? Young voters, first-time voters, right? These are big problems for her. And the fact that she is not winning by even larger margins shows that she is vulnerable when the general election comes, right? When you talk to insiders, they always say that, oh, the republicans

are signing up millions of new voters, right? And the democrats are not. Even with the Bernie Sanders voters. And the ones that they have signed up, Hillary Clinton has to reach them and get them to the polls and convince them that she represents them. She's trying hard to do that now.

BERMAN: She did get big margins in albeit states that will not be democratic states in the general election. But if you look at, you know, you look at Texas, you look at Alabama, you look at Georgia, she won those pretty easily.

BOLDUAN: One thing that, and M.J., this is one of your areas of expertise, is just the money that's flooding in here now. I mean, there are -- we were talking about how the anti-Trump super PACS, they're really firing up now, talking to donors.

BERMAN: Firing up now. By the way, it's March 2nd. They're firing up on March 2nd.

BOLDUAN: That's what I was going to say. Now that seems to be questionable timing on that. There's also kind of the classic, now classic, kind of Trump counterintuitive argument here which is, sure, throw all the money you want at the anti-Trump -- at anti -- the anti- Trump movement. It only helps him.

LLE: Yes. I mean, I think it's impossible to overstate how important this window that I mentioned earlier starting now until March 15th -- how critical that window is and how much emphasis republicans are now placing on that window, perhaps viewing it as almost the last real opportunity to stop Trump.

I thought something interesting that kept cropping up in my reporting this week, when I talked to strategists, republican strategists and operatives about how the last week or so has gone down. The one thing they kept pointing to was that Marco Rubio had a very strong debate where he really took on Donald Trump for the very first time.

And the strategists were pointing out that there just wasn't enough time. This was too close to Super Tuesday, and there wasn't enough time for there to be a movement to raise money, to get the anti-Trump messaging out there, to capitalize on Rubio's performance, and that is why now we are going to see a flood of money.

And this is according to, you know, several strategists I've spoken to who track, you know, ad-buying and how much money is spent in this election. They are expecting a flood of money to really be spent on anti-Trump messaging, targeting really the March 5th, March 8th, and the March 15th states, the states that are going to have races on those three days. I think we're going to be seeing a lot of ads and just a flood of cash in those three states -- in those three days.

BOLDUAN: Gird your loins, voters in those states. You're about to get flooded.

BERMAN: Yes, $25 million is the number I've seen tossed around. One of the open questions in this entire elections. What will Donald Trump be willing to spend out of his own pocket to counter this? Since the early states, it hasn't been quite as much.

And we'll get back to that in a moment. Stand by, guys, because the moment you've all been waiting for, an Alaska update. Ted Cruz now leading by 239 votes in Alaska with 64 percent in. Let's go to the ground there.

CNN's Paul Vercammen in Anchorage. Paul.

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: All right. Kate and John, first off, I want to rename your show. Enough of this early start stuff. I always didn't like that. We're going to call it late night hangout in Alaska. You know, it works for me. Let's get the updated numbers.

We've got 14,417 votes in. You've got 10 percent for Carson. You've got 35 percent for Cruz. You've got 4.4 percent for Kasich, 15.9 percent for Rubio. And 34.1 percent for Trump. Now an update on the delegates, and I want to thank everybody here with the republicans in Alaska.

Suzanne Downing, crunching these numbers and typing them as we speak. Again, really appreciate you're being with us. She tells me that the delegate breakdown right now would be 12 for Cruz, 11 for Trump, 5 for Rubio.

So, as it stands now, this could end up being a Cruz victory, but -- and this is a massive but, if we look at the screen, what is still out there. Some affluent Anchorage neighborhoods and up in the Mat-Au Valley, Wasilla is not in yet. Neither is Greater Palmer. So, we have to wait and see on that.

Where will they come in? I was in Wasilla earlier tonight. In fact, I talked to perhaps the best known Trump supporter in that entire area, Sarah Palin. I said to her, what if, just what if, hypothetical, it ended up being a Trump-Hillary race, what would happen? Here's what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[03:15:00] SARAH PALIN, FORMER ALASKA GOVERNOR: Oh, Trump, Trump, because people are -- they know that the status quo has got to go, and Hillary, of course, has been part of the status quo. What cracks me up about these politicians, typical politicians, and thank God Trump isn't a politician.

These guys and these gals who have been part of the problem for all these years trying to fool America into thinking that they're going to be now the solution. They've had their chance. They've had their chance to implement solutions that we need as we face all these tremendous challenges. National security-wise, and economically wise, and instead they have really been perpetuating the problems.

For them now to say, oh, well, give me another chance and now I'll do something right, no. You know, we're not that stupid. It's time for somebody new. New energy, new blood in there. New people who are independent, and as I say, beholden only to the voters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VERCAMMEN: I also pressed Sarah Palin as to whether if Trump won would she want to be part of the administration. She said right now she's concentrating on being a mother and taking the kids to basketball.

One thing I need to add here. These folks are pressing me so hard to have a refreshment. As many of them are and as we're at last in downtown Anchorage and they're crunching the numbers, but I told them, that, of course, would be a career ender. I'm not going to have this thing go south, John, and Kate, in the middle of counting numbers with Alaskans. Clearly, I say our most independent voters. What do you say?

BOLDUAN: I beg to differ on that point. Never a career-ender. I always think it's a career-maker. I say you take them up on that offer, friend.

BERMAN: I have to say that it's probably a relief to I think the members of every campaign knowing the guys counting the votes are drinking right now.

BOLDUAN: You know, that's what we are just kidding. Just kidding. Just kidding.

BERMAN: All right. Good luck. Good luck out there in Alaska, Paul. We'll check back in with you in a little bit.

Coming up, we've been talking about it all night and all morning. Donald Trump with a big night, winning seven states. Ted Cruz picking up two states. Marco Rubio with his first win. We're going to talk about the fight to try to catch Donald Trump. Is it even possible?

[03:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, THE LEAD SHOW HOST: Senator, you keep saying that and he keeps winning states and you're talking about Virginia, and that's another state that Donald Trump won. And I'm just wondering if there's a certain amount of denial that you're in about this race.

MARCO RUBIO, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No, Jake. Look, again, we're in the winner take all phase of this. You know this is about delegate count. This is not a traditional race. Usually in a race like this, you'd have a frontrunner and at this point people would be saying you need to drop out and rally around the frontrunner for the sake of the party.

They're saying the opposite now. There will never come a time in this race where our supporters are asking us to get out and rally around Donald Trump. What people are saying is fight as hard as you can to save the party of Lincoln and Reagan from a con artist who refuses to criticize the KKK. If we nominate Donald Trump as our nominee for the Republican Party,

it will be the end of the modern Republican Party. Hillary Clinton will smoke him in the general election, and the next four years are going to be no different than the last eight for our country.

I will fight as long and as hard as it takes to save this party and the conservative movement from someone like Donald Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: A little while ago, Marco Rubio taking and telling Jake tapper all is well. Remain calm. This is just how we planned it, despite winning only one race so far out of the first 15.

Our panel is back with us. Ron Brownstein, let me put this question to you. Marco Rubio has gone after Donald Trump hard since the debate last Thursday night in Houston every day.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: We need to say small hands.

BERMAN: Small hands, wetting pants, you name it. Is there evidence tonight that, yes, maybe that was able to drag down Donald Trump a little bit, but it didn't help Marco Rubio? Maybe it helped Ted Cruz.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Well, look, I think the first part of what Marco Rubio said to Jake is, in fact, true. And we've talked about it over the last hour and a half, that normally in a race if someone had posted the performance that Donald Trump has to this point, you would have a cry for rallying around the frontrunner, particularly the ability to win across the geographic divide.

Now you have instead republicans pointing out that, look, he is still not usually getting above 40 percent of the vote. He's still in the 30s. He is still facing resistance from white collar voters, you. And, in fact, if you look at, by the way, if you look at the polling and the exit polling, in almost every state, a majority of republicans have said that people -- undocumented immigrants should get legal status rather than being deported.

So, you know, what Rubio and Cruz and Kasich have to work with is that there is a supply of institutional support and money that would have not been there in the past because there is so much fear about Donald Trump.

What is working against them, John, is that we're talking about before what drives people out of races. It's not just money. Its voters concluding that they are wasting their vote by voting for them because someone else is going to win.

And that is why winning is just so important to restore credibility and these kind of moral victories of coming in second and third, they really are losing their value in a hurry.

And on March 15th, when you get to that, you know, the big clump of big states of North Carolina and Illinois and Missouri and Florida and Ohio, if you can't stop Trump then, it really becomes very implausible to look at how you're going to do it unless you can deny him the first ballot majority collectively rather than individually.

BOLDUAN: So, you look at Marco Rubio's fund-raising plea that he sent out. He sent out an e-mail right after all of this, and it says, this is just the beginning. That's how obviously they want to reframe it. Looking ahead to -- looking ahead to Florida, though, what does that look like? Could that be the beginning of the end, though, for Marco Rubio? Obviously that is the state for him.

BERMAN: That could be the end of the end.

BOLDUAN: Donald Trump, I'm being kind. You're not. Donald Trump, though, holding his speech slashes press conference there, and Ted Cruz, I mean, he could go -- he could go hard in Florida.

ROGIN: Right. This is a unified campaign message by the Rubio team. They had a call with donors Tuesday morning, warning them that this was going to be a long haul, promising that Marco would stay in it until the end and lowering expectations for Super Tuesday.

The insiders know that Marco Rubio if he loses Florida, he's in big, big trouble. And I think that's why you saw Donald Trump in Florida. He thinks this is a knockout punch. That's why he's working on those endorsements that he claims not to care about in Florida because he wants to lock up Florida.

If Marco Rubio doesn't win his home state, his whole rationale for becoming president is called into big question.

[03:25:00] Same thing for John Kasich. If he doesn't win his home state he is probably done. So, after March 15th, if they both win their home states, they both move on. If one of them doesn't win their home states, I think they're cooked.

BERMAN: Yes. That's all I meant by end of the end. If Marco Rubio can't win Florida, there are problems there. Maeve Reston, you know, the is, Maeve, are we going to see more small hands jokes, are we going to see more wetting the pants jokes for Marco Rubio or...

BOLDUAN: Did it not work?

BERMAN: Or, yes, did it not work or with these debates coming up, you know, with Thursday night and with another CNN debate next week, you know, do you think that Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio are going to have to address each other again at some point because they are pulling from each other.

RESTON: They are pulling from each other and this is clearly a fight where they're having to fight on all fronts. But I do think that Marco Rubio, what he demonstrated in that debate and what he's continuing to demonstrate on the campaign trail with these attacks against Donald Trump is that he can go hard at Donald Trump, not back down, and that's been really important to donors who are waiting on the sidelines. So, we haven't really seen yet what the effect of that is. If there

were any good signs for Marco Rubio tonight, it was that in some of the states, the late deciders were tilting toward him, and then in other states, toward Ted Cruz.

So, that's a big question. But I was talking to some of the folks, who were involved in this anti-Trump effort, and they're going to be, you know, putting -- we don't know how much money exactly over the next couple weeks into attacks on Donald Trump. They're going to be basically making the argument that he's been a fraud, going after his business deals, going hard on the sustained attack on his electability against Hillary Clinton, saying that these other candidates are much more electable against Hillary Clinton.

And so, we haven't yet seen what that will do, but at the same time, these are attacks on Donald Trump that have been used before, that haven't worked. So, there's going to have to be a lot of money, a lot of points put behind those ads to actually move the ball in this race, and it's just not clear yet whether that actually will happen.

BYERS: Kate and John, if I may?

BERMAN: Go ahead.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

BYERS: You know, we keep talking, the GOP establishment keeps talking about making a concerted effort against Donald Trump, something they say they haven't really done yet. And you know, of course the next two weeks are crucial for Marco Rubio. But what does a sustained attack against Donald Trump really look like?

BOLDUAN: Right.

BYERS: I mean this is a guy who refused to condemn white supremacists and the KKK and did just fine on Super Tuesday. This is a guy who of course has called for a ban on Muslims entering the United States. He's referred to Mexican immigrants as criminals and rapists.

I mean, he has defied political gravity. He's gone against every rule. He has said everything that you're not supposed to say as a presidential candidate, and his support has only gone up.

So, yes, Rubio and the entire establishment that is now backing him can go very hard on Trump. But it's very hard to imagine if nothing has stuck to Trump for the last nine months, what is going to stick to him over the next two weeks?

BERMAN: All right. Guys, stand by. Stand by. We're going to get a break in right now. We're going to talk about the democrats when we come back. Bernie Sanders picked up four states, but the night belonged to Hillary Clinton.

What is next in the democratic race heading into a big debate on CNN Sunday night in Flint, Michigan?

[03:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: I believe what we need in America today is more love and kindness.

(CROWD CHEERING)

Because you know what? You know what? It works. Instead of building walls, we're going to break down barriers and build...

(CROWD CHEERING)

... build ladders of opportunity and empowerment so every American can live up to his or her potential because then and only then can America live up to its full potential too.

(CROWD CHEERING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: How could Hillary Clinton be pushing that message at? Who is she speaking to in talking about not building walls, what did she say? Building togetherness? Let's just say that's what she said.

And that's Hillary Clinton tonight. A big night for her winning seven states. Let's discuss the state of the democratic race now, post Super Tuesday and looking forward.

M.J., talk to me about the big headlines for the night. A big night for Hillary Clinton, but Bernie Sanders he racked up four states. They are all moving forward, and the Hillary Clinton campaign, while they're very happy with how things ended up and definitely saying that when you look at the math, it is clearly in her favor, they're not calling on Bernie Sanders to drop out.

LEE: Yes, I mean, I thought what was so striking about Hillary Clinton's speech tonight was that you definitely saw her pivoting to the general election. This was not a candidate who seemed haunted by Bernie Sanders nipping at her heels as she was not talking about the importance of not being a single-issue candidate, something she has said a lot in these kinds of setting at rallies.

She was really talking as a general election candidate. She only mentioned Bernie Sanders really in passing at the top of her speech, congratulating him for a job well done. And then she really moved on to the issues that she wanted to talk about, raising middle class wages, breaking down barriers for women and the LGBT community, and then the clip that you just played, right?

Going after clearly republican frontrunner Donald Trump when she's talking about building walls and, you know, divisive rhetoric that is without a doubt aimed at Donald Trump.

And I think she is getting ready and really pivoting to November and really showing that after her, you know, good night on Super Tuesday and having these wins under her belt now. She is ready to take on whoever the republican nominee will end up being.

BERMAN: You know, it's so interesting, you get the sense that Hillary Clinton has wanted to pivot for months and months and months her kickoff was about pivoting.

[03:35:02] Then after the, you know, testifying before a Congress and the first debate, it was about pivoting in the later debates she tried to pivot. She could never get out. She was always dragged back in.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: No pivoting.

BERMAN: Now, finally, she thinks she can do it. Ron Brownstein, the coalition she is putting together looks very much like the coalition of Barack Obama put together.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

BERMAN: I guess mind the young voters. But racially speaking, demographically speaking, you look at the African-American vote in Georgia and Alabama, Hillary Clinton just crushed it among black voters there. She was up over 90 percent, I believe, in...

BOLDUAN: In Alabama.

BERMAN: ... in Alabama, in Georgia, she's up over 80 percent there. Doing very, very well. What does this mean going forward in the primary season? You know, what does this do for her in a general?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Let's talk about both because as you said before, in the primaries, there are no big states on the democratic side that are not diverse. So, every big state has a substantial minority population, and the equation is simple.

Bernie Sanders simply has to do better among African-American voters. So far Hillary Clinton has gotten at least 70 percent among African- American voters in every state with an exit poll and above 80 percent in almost every state with an exit poll. And he cannot win probably any big states if she can hold that kind of advantage because he can't get far enough ahead among white voters.

If you think about the general election, I think it's fascinating. Donald Trump would likely be as disruptive a force if he is the general election nominee as he's been as a primary candidate in that he could scramble the map somewhat with his strength among blue collar white voters, in particular blue collar white men.

I've seen polls, John, where he is polling at 69 percent among white men without a college education, which is the same number that Ronald Reagan polled in 1984 when he won 49 states. Here's the catch, though. White men without a college education are half as much of the electorate roughly as they were in 1984.

And if you look at the growing groups in the electorate, what I've called the coalition of the ascendant, millennials, minorities, college-educated white women, he is facing negatives above 70 percent with those voters, and that's why so many republicans are nervous not only about what he might mean for this year, but how he might brand the party in the long run with the groups that are growing and are increasingly going to be the center of the American electorate.

BOLDUAN: And, Ron, you talk about -- you talk about millennials in that growing group. Maeve, where do they go in a general in Hillary Clinton is the nominee and Donald Trump is the nominee, let's say, because that is what the youth vote is really one of the big drivers of Bernie Sanders' campaign?

RESTON: It is, and that's what the big test for Hillary Clinton is going to be over the next couple of months here is whether or not she can fine-tune a message that actually is geared to resonate with young voters, whether she can actually turn them out.

And she so far has demonstrated a lot of problems in that area, and Bernie Sanders clearly has, you know, wiped the board with our -- with those voters as we've seen in many of the primaries so far.

She still seems to be fine-tuning that message a lot and hasn't actually figured out exactly what she's -- what she's going to do to reach those voters, but Donald Trump could be a huge force in helping her do that. His rhetoric is very polarizing among young voters in particular.

You see groups in Florida, for example, already registering. Young Latino voters just on the basis of what Donald Trump has been saying on the campaign trail, and that may be the biggest tool in her arsenal.

BOLDUAN: Stand by. We're going to keep our eye on Alaska to see where those election results are coming in. Also coming up for us, there's a discussion over Super Tuesday sparking a very fierce debate amongst voters, amongst political watchers, and also amongst CNN contributors on some of the most -- on some of the biggest issues facing this campaign.

We'll show you this moment that happened live on CNN, and we'll discuss.

[03:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: All right. There is no doubt this primary season has had a lot of tension in this race, and the tension came to a head tonight. They were talking about Donald Trump and his refusal to Jake Tapper...

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: Stumbled with KKK.

BERMAN: ... to disavow the KKK and David Duke in his interview with Jake tapper. Jeffrey Lord and Van. Van Jones, two CNN contributors they had a heated discussion about it. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: The thing Donald Trump has done

and not just in this race are horribly offensive. You can go back with this go for a long time. I want to talk. I want to talk.

JEFFREY LORD, FORMER REAGAN WHITE HOUSE POLITICAL DIRECTOR: I didn't say anything yet.

JONES: You breathed. You can go back to the central jogger case where he came out and had innocent black kids winding up in prison.

LORD: Not innocent, but kids.

JONES: Hold on a second. Innocent black kids. Listen, hold on a second. We have a big problem at this point now because I agree with you about a lot. I think that we have taken him not seriously, we have not respected his voters, but there is a dark underside here, and S.C. is right.

He is whipping up and tapping into and pushing buttons that are very, very frightening to me and frightening to a lot of people. Number one, when he is playing funny with the Klan, that is not cool.

(CROSSTALK)

LORD: He didn't make fun with the Klan.

JONES: Hold on a second. I know this man when he gets passionate about terrorism. I know how he talks about terrorism. The Klan is a terrorist organization that has killed...

LORD: A leftist terrorist organization.

JONES: You can put whatever label you want. That's your game to play.

LORD: No, That's important to know history. It's history.

JONES: We're not going to play that game.

LORD: No, we are not playing.

JONES: No, no. You need to take a serious look at the fact that this man has -- is playing fast and loose and footsy when we talk about terrorism, he gets passionate. He says, no, this is wrong. But when you talk about the Klan, oh, I don't know, I don't know.

That's wrong. And then you came on the air and you said this is just like when Reverend Wright was speaking.

LORD: Yes.

JONES: Reverend Wright never lynched anybody. Reverend Wright never killed anybody.

LORD: Reverent Wright is an anti-Semite.

JONES: Reverend Wright never put anybody on the pose, and you guys play these word games and it's wrong to do in America. It is wrong to do.

LORD: It is wrong -- it is wrong to understand that these are not leftists. They were a...

(CROSSTALK)

JONES: What -- what difference does it make if you call them a leftist? They call them chipmunks.

LORD: Van, it makes a lot of difference. We're not talking...

JONES: They kill people, and you don't play games with that.

LORD: Van, we're not going to -- we are -- you're right. You're right, and you don't hide and say that's not part of the base of the Democratic Party. That has been -- they were the military arm, the terrorist arm of the Democratic Party according to historians. For God sakes read your history.

JONES: Listen, I don't know. I don't care about history.

LORD: This whole attitude of dividing by race is still here, and this is how democrats do the deal.

JONES: I don't care how they voted 50 years ago. I care about who they killed.

[03:45:00] LORD: I care about American history. It counts.

JONES: You have stood with Donald Trump and made a case for Donald Trump when nobody else wanted to, and you've earned a respect to an awful lot of people. But when you do not acknowledge that he did not answer that question with the passion he's answered with other terrorist organizations, you do yourself a disservice.

LORD: He has made this point over and over and over again. This is a media thing here. Did he make a mistake when he -- sure, but he has said this many, many times. I've gone back and looked. He's well on record over and over and over again.

JONES: But it's worse than that, sir. It's worse than that. That whole thing with those central jogger kids, he got the entire City of New York whipped up on this idea that these kids had done something wrong and then when it turned out they were innocent, we all make mistakes.

LORD: Right.

JONES: He never apologized to those kids and that's a stain on him. You can walk through time after time where he's done stuff like that. The stuff he said about Native Americans being, you know, criminal organizations and Mafia. He said so many...

(CROSSTALK)

LORD: But, Van -- Van, what you're doing right here, what you're doing here is dividing people. We're all Americans here, Van.

JONES: I am.

LORD: You are dividing people. This is what liberals do. You are dividing people by race.

JONES: I am not.

LORD: This is what liberalism is all about.

JONES: The Klan divided by race.

LORD: You have to divide by race...

JONES: The Klan killed people by race and he have the opportunity and he did not...

LORD: And they did -- they did it to further the progressive agenda. Hello?

JONES: Listen, that is, first of all, so absurd.

LORD: True. It is not true.

JONES: The Democratic Party of the south in the old days was a racist party. And you are right -- you are correct, sir. They were a violent party and you are correct, sir.

LORD: How do you think we got Woodrow Wilson elected?

JONES: But hold on a second. Hold on a second. That's not the Democratic Party of today, so what are you talking about that for? You played this game.

LORD: It is the Democratic Party of today.

JONES: You played this game.

LORD: The Democratic Party of today divides by race.

JONES: My -- listen, I have a kid, 7 years old.

LORD: Right.

JONES: He can't even watch -- I used to want him to -- I don't want you watching the Kardashian's. I want you watching the news so you can learn something. You know what? Watching all this nonsense in your party, he turn us round and says, dad, you're a liar. He doesn't even know what the word means, but he sees so much vitriol from your party.

LORD: Right.

JONEs: He brings that into our house. Now we got to -- we have been watching Nick Junior. He can't even observe civics because of what's going on in your party. The circus wing in your party. Do not play and tell Donald Trump, I know you. I trust you. Tell Donald Trump he needs for my children's sake, for the children's sake of America, if he's going to lead this country, he needs to be as passionate about what is happening...

(CROSSTALK)

LORD: We have to be passionate -- we have to be about making sure that as Robert Kennedy used to say, that this country is color-blind. We have to, as President Kennedy used to say in that Birmingham speech, that race has no place in American life or law. That's what we have to do, and we have lost that totally because the Democratic Party insists on dividing people by race, and it's wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: There you have it. That happened earlier this evening. Let's bring -- let me bring in Dylan -- let us bring in Dylan Byers right now on this.

Dylan, you see the passion here in this discussion between Van Jones and Jeffrey Lord. Do you see this as a foreshadowing of the debates, the fights to come, in the general election if it is Donald Trump versus either Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders?

BYERS: Well, first and foremost, I see this as a really singular and actually wonderful moment in the 2016 campaign, and I say that -- we spend so much time focusing on the horse race...

BOLDUAN: Right.

BYERS: ... focusing on the day to day, the delegates, what have you. The best thing that presidential campaigns do is they shed a light on the country and they shed a light on some of the bigger picture issues that the two parties, the Republican Party and the Democratic Party are arguing over.

Obviously America has always dealt with this underlying racial tension. Republicans believe that democrats divide -- many far right republicans anyway believe that democrats are responsible for dividing the party -- or dividing the country into various groups based on identity, based on demographics.

Democrats obviously believe that far-right republicans, certainly Donald Trump, are exploiting, you know, racial tensions and racial fears and sort of using that to sort of gin up support among the white working class, particularly in the south and in some of the more rural parts of the country.

This is a debate that goes back to the founding of this nation, and to see it being played out between these two CNN contributors in a way that was passionate, personal, respectful, but also very sort of, you know, hard-charging and hard-pressing, I thought it was an amazing moment, and I do think that it's a conversation that's going to continue to play out in the primary and into the general election.

BERMAN: And maybe not as respectful as it continues on.

BYERS: Certainly.

BERMAN: In the election season. Dylan, guys, stand by for just a moment. We have some new numbers from Alaska to tell you about. That's right. There is one state we have not yet called. The Alaska caucuses, they are still counting votes there. We'll bring you an update right after the break.

[03:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: You see it right there. Breaking news. CNN is now projecting that Ted Cruz is the winner of the republican caucuses in Alaska. This is a race that we have been watching, the final race of Super Tuesday has finally projected its winner.

Ted Cruz, you see right there. It's been neck and neck all night between Donald Trump and Ted Cruz, and as we head into 4:00 a.m. Eastern, Ted Cruz pulls it out.

BERMAN: It's the third state, by the way, third victory for Ted Cruz on this Super Tuesday. Texas, Oklahoma, and now Alaska.

CNN's Paul Vercammen, live in Anchorage. I have to imagine, Paul, they're excited that we have finally called the race.

VERCAMMEN: They're excited. They're excited that they absolutely shattered the GOP turnout here. We've called the race. There was one precinct left, and that's going to cement the whole deal. We'll go ahead.

Peter Goldberg, you're the chairman here of the republicans in Alaska. Tell us what the final numbers are in that last of the precincts that just came in. This precinct is in Anchorage.

PETER GOLDBERG, ANCHORAGE CHAIRMAN: This is District 25, and our final numbers are Dr. Carson, 33 percent. Senator Cruz, 171. Governor Kasich, 20. Senator Rubio, 87. And, Mr. Trump, 161. Cruz is in the lead here too. It looks like Cruz has the election.

VERCAMMEN: How do you feel about the record turnout here?

[03:55:01] GOLDBERG: It's just phenomenal. We are roughly 50 percent higher than our next highest turnout in our history for an election like this.

VERCAMMEN: Well, congratulations, and congratulations to the Ted Cruz supporters. Sterling, come on in here. One of them. Oh, boy, how are you feeling right now that you pulled this out?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am -- I am feeling great for the primary. I just have a message that I would like to give out to everyone who supports Donald Trump right now. He is playing on your fear of change, of immigrants, of Muslims. We cannot be afraid right now. Donald Trump is...

(CROSSTALK) VERCAMMEN: All right. Thank you so much for taking time out. Some

might count out that Ted Cruz has said some things that haven't been truthful. Casey Reynolds (ph), you're a blogger here in Alaska. What did it for Cruz? What till today, we know that Cruz was here in the Mat-Su Valley helping stump for a republican senator? Was that a factor?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely. Alaska is a very retail politics state. Everybody expects to meet their representatives, their U.S. senators, their state representatives, so being up here obviously made a difference. His Evangelical street cred obviously made a lot of difference. There are a lot of folks in Alaska that have those values. And I think that's what they did it for him.

VERCAMMEN: We thank you so much for taking time out. So, finally, after all the counting into midnight here in Alaska, it's over as you guys pointed out. Ted Cruz has won in Alaska. Back to you now, Kate and John.

BERMAN: All right. Alaska makes it three. Three states for Ted Cruz, Alaska, Texas, and Oklahoma. Donald Trump with seven. Marco Rubio with one. The big winner of the democratic side, Hillary Clinton.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. A big Super Tuesday and it says a whole lot about where this race goes from here. Much more of our Super Tuesday coverage. The results of Alaska just in as you see. We've got much more for you. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[03:59:59] BERMAN: All right. The breaking news this morning. The Super Tuesday results are in. Now finally at last every single one of them, Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton the big winners, but not the only winners. And yes, we do have some --