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Early Start with John Berman and Zoraida Sambolin
The Race for President: GOP Debate Gets Dirty; Sanders' New, Aggressive Strategy. Aired 4:30-5a ET
Aired March 04, 2016 - 04:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[04:36:26] CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Republicans running for president really go after each other on the stage last night. Attacks and insults reaching a new low. Was anyone able to escape unscathed?
Welcome back to EARLY START. I'm Christine Romans.
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Miguel Marquez, who is unscathed this morning.
ROMANS: So far.
MARQUEZ: Although you're wearing red. So, I'm a little nervous.
Breaking overnight: a down and dirty debate. Surprise, surprise. Donald Trump at the center of it all.
For the two hours, the candidates bashed each other sometimes in very coarse terms.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In this campaign for the last year, Donald Trump has mocked everybody with personal attacks. He has done so to people sitting on the stage today. He has done so about people that are disabled. He's done it about every candidate in this race. So, if there's anyone who ever deserved to be attacked that way, it's been Donald Trump.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This little guy has lied so much about my record.
RUBIO: Here we go. Here we go.
TRUMP: He has lied so much.
I've won 10. He's won three or four? Last week, in fact on Tuesday, I was 500,000 votes higher than him. I was a million votes higher than Marco, 1 million votes. That's a lot of votes.
RUBIO: Two-thirds of the people who cast a vote in the Republican primary or caucus have voted against you. They do not want you to be our nominee.
CRUZ: If we nominate Donald, we're going to spend the spring -- the fall and the summer with the Republican nominee facing a fraud trial.
TRUMP: Oh, stop it.
CRUZ: With Hillary Clinton telling saying --
TRUMP: It's a minor case. It's a minor case.
CRUZ: -- why did you give my campaign and my foundation $100,000.
TRUMP: It's a minor civil case.
Lying, Ted.
CRUZ: You can breathe. I know it's hard. I know it's hard. But just --
RUBIO: When they are done with the yoga, can I answer a question?
CRUZ: You cannot.
GOV. JOHN KASICH (R-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I can get the crossover votes, you see, because throughout this campaign, I've talked about issues. I have never tried to go and get into these kind of scrums that we're seeing here on the stage and people say everywhere I go, you seem to be the adult on the stage.
MODERATOR: I have a policy question for you, sir.
RUBIO: Let's see if he answers.
TRUMP: Don't worry about it, Marco. Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it, Little Marco.
Look at those hands. Are they small hands? And he referred to my hands, if they are small, something else must be small. I guarantee you, there's no problem. I guarantee you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MARQUEZ: Oh, my.
Chief political correspondent Dana Bash was in the spin room, such as it was, and talked to the candidates after the debate.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Christine and Miguel, as expected, this debate between the four remaining candidates in the beautiful theater here in Detroit was as raucous as they come, really intense especially when it comes to everybody taking aim at the frontrunner. The man in the center stage, Donald Trump.
Now, he was here. This was the spin room before everybody cleared out and I got a chance to talk to Mr. Trump, asking him about how he felt specifically about the idea that people were questioning whether or not he really is a man who keeps his word and tells it like it is. Take a listen.
TRUMP: No, I think I explained it very well. I thought it was very easy to explain. According to every poll, I won the debate by a lot. I'm in the 70s, which is a lot, when you have four people on the stage.
BASH: Now, Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz, they were really going after Donald Trump. But there was one man on the debate stage, the fourth, John Kasich, who refused to engage. In fact, he made it clear that was his strategy.
[04:35:06] As he has done throughout this campaign, as saying that he doesn't want to get into it, he doesn't want to get into the bickering, he doesn't want to get into the name-calling and he just wants to talk about his record both as governor of Ohio and before that in Congress.
I also got a chance to talk to him after the debate.
You were clearly trying to be the adult in the room.
KASICH: Yes.
BASH: But given where you are and where the -- sort of, the delegates are after all of these contests, do you think Republicans are looking for an adult at this point?
KASICH: No, I do. I'm going to win Ohio. And when I win Ohio, it's a whole new ball game. You know, winning Ohio means I'm going to -- I'm now on home turf.
BASH: Now, for candidates like John Kasich who really thrives on this platform on the debate stage, it could be every beneficial. Even he said so.
But for the other candidates, unclear how much this debate really moved the ball. We're going to see when the next contest starts this Saturday and, of course, right here in Michigan, the reason they have this debate here, this primary is one that John Kasich is really focusing on this Tuesday -- Christine and Miguel.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: All right. Dana Bash, thanks for that, Dana.
Helping us breakdown this debate's riled up rhetoric of the past 24 hours, CNN media correspondent Brian Stelter, host of "RELIABLE SOURCES". We also got back CNN political analyst and "Bloomberg View" columnist, Josh Rogin, live in our Washington bureau.
Good morning, gentlemen.
JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.
ROMASN: I've got to turn it to you, first, Brian. We have seen these gentlemen on the stage several times, although it's fewer people every time.
How do you rate both Megyn Kelly's performance because this was billed as a matchup of those two, and Donald Trump? Did he emerge there, the confident frontrunner, or was he dinged last night?
STELTER: Certainly, the Kelly part was anticlimactic. Kelly and other FOX moderators were doing their jobs, and doing what I think a lot of voters and viewers I hear from is more fact checking of the candidates, more challenging these candidates on their policy positions. That's what I constantly hear from viewers on Twitter and Facebook. We want more fact checking, more challenging questions.
We heard that from Kelly and Chris Wallace and Bret Baier, whether it matters to voters or not is to be determined in the coming days. We have more primaries. But I was happy to see questions brought up in detail about Trump University, in detail about immigration. Topics that we heard covered at length in the past, but with more detail than in the past.
MARQUEZ: Josh, they are tried to take out Donald Trump's conservative legs. First, Romney going after him yesterday and the candidates last night with the same thing. Here is what Rubio went after him on his lack of conservative credentials.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUBIO: We are not going to turnover the conservative movement or the party of Lincoln or Reagan, for example, to someone whose positions are not conservative. To someone who last week defended Planned Parenthood for 30 seconds on the debate stage. To someone for example that has no ideas on foreign -- someone who thinks the nuclear triad is a rock band from the 1980s.
America is great because of the conservative principles of limited government and free enterprise and a strong national defense. Our nominee needs to be someone that stands by these things. Donald has not demonstrated that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARQUEZ: Josh, does any of this work or does it only confirm Donald Trump as the anti-establishment candidate?
JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I say two things.
One, Rubio has him on the facts, right? He is pointing out inconsistencies in Trump's record and statement. He's changed positions which has moved to the right very recently. And all of that is true.
The problem here is that the Trump's campaign has a counter- argument, and that's that he's expanding the base of the Republican Party, which if you remember back after 2012, is what they all said they had to do. People are coming out to the polls in the Republican primaries in record numbers, right?
So, whether or not conservative is what voters are looking for, Trump is winning and getting more Republicans to register and more Republicans to the polls. That carries some weight.
The other thing is that, you know, the entire Trump narrative is he is a victim and attacked by the media and Republican establishment. When you have two hours of him on TV getting attacked by the media and Republican establishment, it keys that narrative. It just tells his supporters that Trump is right and he is t victim.
That's sort of a self fulfilling logic in a sort of warped thought process. But he's set it up that way intentionally, and in the way, when Rubio and Megyn Kelly go after him with the facts that they have which are correct --
ROMANS: Right.
ROGIN: -- he is prepared for that. He prepared supporters for that.
ROMANS: So, are these swarms of new voters that come out and we talked to people, do they want conservatism? Do they want not chaotic foreign policy? Do they want to know what the next president will do or part of a cult or personality? They want confidence and personality. It looks like confidence and personality are the two things going in his favor.
[04:40:02] You talked about the facts and how Megyn Kelly was armed with the facts, really now for the first time in the process, really pushing back with him about some of his business endeavors.
Let's listen to how she really fact-checked him on the fly right there about Trump University, let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Excuse me. The lead plaintiff signed a letter saying how great it was and is on tape saying how great it was.
MEGYN KELLY, FOX NEWS MODERATOR: No, but stand by. What happened in that case was you counter-sued her. The court threw out your countersue and made you pay almost $800,000 in legal fees of hers.
You made the same argument about 98 percent of people being happy with Trump University. And that woman in particularly signing a survey saying she liked it while someone is standing over her shoulder.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: She's getting out of the case. She's trying to get out of the case.
KELLY: Stand by. This is what the court of appeals found. They said that the plaintiffs against you are like the Madoff victims.
TRUMP: Give me a break.
KELLY: This is what the court of appeals said. They found that victims of con artists often sing the praises of their victimizers until realize they have been fleeced.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMANS: You're going to see the aspects of his business past I think in the next weeks. You really are, because they're going to try to show, look, it is the little guy who is now supporting Donald Trump, who actually got the short stick in some of his endeavors.
STELTER: Romney set this up yesterday as well, talking about Trump vodka and Trump steaks, naming other brands that are either defunct or not too impressive, parts of Trump's portfolio.
We heard Rubio bringing up some of those lines again last night.
But to me, what is trying about the debate is how it was on Trump's terms, how the other candidates were having to respond the way Trump responds. We can dismiss the comment about Trump's hands and whether he is well-endowed, as a stunt or as ridiculousness or as silliness.
But it's in some ways what this campaign is about the campaign. When this campaign is about strength, when Trump represents himself as a strong man. Well, it sort of comes down to what Trump was saying in that moment.
Of course, there was the tweeted moment. It was the Facebook moment. It was the social media moment. A lot of people are going to condemn it as outlandish and below the belt so to speak, right?
Look at the front page of "The New York Post". The headline is "Size Matters." the headline for better or worse. Did it sound like it was part of Trump's tinder profile and not a presidential election? Yes, it did. But it is the subtext of this entire election and sometimes subtext matters more than the text.
ROMANS: Josh, is this what these voters want? A big discussion with Bill Bennett and others. The Republican party listening to the people coming to the polls. If they are having a love affair with Donald Trump, you guys need to figure out what it is he is selling that they want to buy?
ROGIN: Right. I agree with everything Brian said. I would add this. It is important for the viewers to understand what's going on behind the scenes here.
There is a $25 million effort to push out oppo research and bad information about Donald Trump dating all the way back to the '70s, right? So, Trump university, Trump steaks, Trump ties made in Mexico, Trump buildings that fell down in China. All this is coming out because it is the body of work that Trump's opponents have collected and now, they're releasing on the public.
The problem, as you pointed out, Christine, is that when people get negative advertising, sure, it can hurt a candidate, but the people actually don't like it, right? You show people negative ad and they think it's unfair and they don't want to admit they were convinced by a negative ad to change their minds about somebody they don't like. They feel like we are trying to manipulate them by showing them the negative ads.
So, there's a backlash. But the Republican establishment has no choice. They've got to do it. They are throwing everything at Trump that they can.
So, it could have some negative effects for Trump's poll numbers, but it's also going to have negative effects for them. Trump will play the victim and people will get turned off by that.
MARQUEZ: It seems the backlash is really what he's going to benefit from. He certainly has all the way along. I can't imagine that dynamic is going to change that.
ROGIN: That's right.
MARQUEZ: Josh, thank you very much.
ROMANS: Brian, nice to see you, guys. We'll talk to you again in a minute.
There's more to come to folks. Next week is March Madness on CNN. Sunday with the Democratic debate in Flint, Michigan, followed by the premiere of the new CNN series, "RACE TO THE WHITE HOUSE", fantastic I'm told.
Next Tuesday is the next Super Tuesday night. Wednesday brings another Democratic debate. That's in Miami. Also on Miami on Thursday, the Republican debate. An entire week of political events, all right here on CNN.
MARQUEZ: And senator Marco Rubio sits down to talk with CNN, in just a couple of hours. "NEW DAY" interviews Marco Rubio at 6:00 a.m. Be sure to tune in.
ROMANS: All right. I can't wait for that.
Now, Bernie Sanders stepping up his attack on Hillary Clinton ahead of weekend elections. His new strategy and the strategy that his campaign is launching against the Clintons, next.
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[04:48:34] MARQUEZ: Bernie Sanders is campaigning in Michigan today with that state's primary looming next Tuesday, Sanders is stepping up his attacks on Hillary Clinton, hitting her hard on trade. He accepted an invitation to a town hall on Monday organized by a media organization not often associated with Democrats, FOX News. Hillary Clinton will not appear on that town hall, citing a scheduling conflict.
CNN's Jeff Zeleny has more on Sanders' new aggressive strategy.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Christine and Miguel, we are one day away from another set of Democratic caucuses and primaries. Nebraska and Kansas on Saturday. Louisiana as well. And Maine on Sunday.
Now, Bernie Sanders believes he can win three of those. On that, the Clinton campaign does not disagree.
This is becoming a race of delegates. Clinton had a big lead in the delegate hunt, but Senator Sanders could make up ground this weekend. It's one of the reasons he is going to college campuses in Lincoln, Nebraska, to Lawrence, Kansas, unto campuses in Michigan. He is focusing on working class voters, others who are fed up with Washington.
He visited Lincoln Nebraska and got loud cheers from an otherwise conservative state. Of course, many Democrats here are happy to have a candidate show up at all and they certainly turned out to see Bernie Sanders.
Some Democrats are wondering about the tone of his campaign. I asked him if he should tone down his rhetoric against Secretary Clinton.
[04:50:01] SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In many ways, Democrats can say what they want. We are in this race to win it. I don't run negative campaign ads, but I do think it is appropriate that in a campaign, you distinguish your differences with your opponents. Otherwise, why run.
ZELENY: So, you can see Senator Sanders has no plans of changing his approach. They are working toward Sunday, the next presidential debate in Flint, Michigan. Of course, that is leading into the key states primary on Tuesday in Michigan. That state will determine how the delegate fight goes on -- Christine and Miguel.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BERMAN: Thanks, Jeff Zeleny, hardest working man in politics.
Hillary Clinton not on the campaign trail last night, was live tweeting during the Republican debate. This is one of those tweets.
How many more of these do we have to sit through? Little gif action. Asking for a friend.
With the Democratic contest shifting to the Midwest, CNN hosts the next debate live from Flint, Michigan on Sunday. That's the CNN Democratic presidential debate Sunday at 8:00 p.m., only here on CNN.
ROMANS: Computer security logs from the private email server used by Hillary Clinton when she was secretary of state reveal no evidence of foreign hacking, that's according to "The New York Times". Those security logs were turned over to the FBI by the former Clinton aide who set up the server, Bryan Pagliano.
Now, there were reportedly attempts to hack the account, which have been traced back to Russia, but Pagliano reportedly told agents there is nothing in the logs to suggest any intrusion, occurred.
MARQUEZ: Secretary of State John Kerry has scrubbed plans to visit Cuba ahead of President Obama's trip in coming weeks. That's because there is too much fighting or which Cuban dissidents the president will be permitted to meet. Kerry staff couldn't even finalize travel arrangements. The president said any attempt to stop him from meeting dissidents will be a deal breaker for his two-day visit.
ROMANS: President Obama has no plans to move out of Washington, D.C. once out of office. On Thursday, he was heard telling lunch companions in Milwaukee his family plans to stay in the nation's capital at least two more years, so his daughter Sasha can finish high school. He says transferring schools at this stage will be tough.
After that, the president says they haven't figured it out. A lot of people assume they would be right back to Chicago after this.
MARQUEZ: You cannot pull a kid out of high school.
ROMANS: A sophomore girl in high school runs the family.
MARQUEZ: Yes, that would be brutal. She is now in charge.
ROMANS: Right, Rob? The high school girl runs the family.
MARQUEZ: A raucous, rowdy and at time times raunchy Republican debate. What did voters have to say at our CNN viewing party say about all the attacks? Their views, coming up.
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[04:56:01] MARQUEZ: Grand Rapids in southwestern Michigan, traditionally the most Republican corner of the state. So, what did voters there think of the fiery debate?
Our Gary Tuchman spoke with some of them -- Gary.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Christine, Miguel, we are in Grand Rapids, Michigan. This was the home of the 30th president of the United States, the late Gerald Ford.
So, there was a lot of Republican pride here. We are in the Gerald R. Ford Republican Party headquarters in Kent County, Michigan, here in Grand Rapids.
Hello, everybody! A lot of Republican pride here, right?
First question, I want to -- now the debate is over and this was not a boring debate, right?
CROWD: No.
TUCHMAN: It was lively.
Who is supporting Donald Trump for president, voting for Donald Trump on Tuesday?
CROWD: Yes.
TUCHMAN: OK.
What about Ted Cruz?
(CHEERS)
TUCHMAN: Marco Rubio?
CROWD: Yes.
TUCHMAN: John Kasich?
(CHEERS)
TUCHMAN: This would warm John Kasich's heart. He needs a good showing in Michigan. He needs to win Ohio on the 15th. This crowd looks like it is supporting John Kasich.
Here's what I want to talk about, this debate, like I said, was not boring. There were a lot of criticisms and more jokes and more back and forth with the candidates.
How many of you are comfortable with that and like to see what we saw during this debate?
How many of you are uncomfortable?
But I watched you and you were cringing, like it was a combination of world wrestling and "Housewives" on Bravo. Does it travel? How do you feel about that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's disturbing. This isn't what we expect out of our elected officials. We expect poise. We expect them to do what is right for all of us.
I'll say what Kasich said, for our neighborhoods, for our communities, battling back and forth like it's a Facebook feed or Twitter feed. I don't think it's a real person. I don't think it tells us anything other than they are children. And they are supposed to be leading the greatest country in this world.
TUCHMAN: Final question for you. Not many Donald Trump supporters here. How many of you will not support Donald Trump?
That's a lot of people.
How many of you would vote for a Democrat?
So, there's five of you here at the Republican Party headquarters that would vote for a Democrat. That will not warm the hearts of Republicans seeing that.
Christine and Miguel, back to you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: All right. Thank you so much for that, Gary. Really illuminating.
Let's get an early start on your money this Friday morning. Stock futures down. Investors weighing the jobs report from the government. Oil is basically flat. Stocks in Europe are higher. Stocks in Asia gaining.
The Dow on a three-day win streak. That's helping erase the big losses from earlier in the year.
Get this, Miguel, the Dow losing 2.7 percent for the year. It had been down 10 percent. NASDAQ is down 6 percent and the S&P 500 down 2.4 percent.
So, if you bought when everything looked so ugly, you're happy today.
Mergers happen on Mondays, but why not Fridays? AMC is buying Carmike Cinemas, making it the largest movie theater operator in the world.
This deal worth $1.1 billion. AMC will now control some 8,300 screens, more than 600 locations and 45 states. AMC is owned by a Chinese firm controlled by China's richest man, Wang Jianlin. The deal follows a record setting year in 2015.
Another deal in the works. Samsonite is buying Tumi for $1.8 billion. Samsonite is the largest luggage company in the world. The deal gives them a foothold in the top tier luxury brand. Samsonite says it will expand Tumi's presence in Asia and Europe, while strengthening its position here in the U.S.
So, a couple of big deals to tell you about this morning.
MARQUEZ: Anyone who likes to travel. I love luggage.
ROMANS: I heard you have a lot of baggage.
MARQUEZ: A lot of baggage, lots.
EARLY START continues now.
(MUSIC)
ROMANS: Speaking of baggage, insults and attacks launched in the Republican debate, reaching a new low. Was anyone be able to rise above the fray?
Good morning. Welcome to EARLY START. I'm Christine Romans.
