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Early Start with John Berman and Zoraida Sambolin

Down & Dirty Republican Debate; Kasich Remains Above the Fray; Trump Explains Changes In Position; Sanders New Aggressive Strategy; Clinton Live Tweets GOP Debate; Debate Watchers Share Impressions of Trump, Cruz, Rubio. Aired 5:30-6a ET

Aired March 04, 2016 - 05:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[05:31:50]

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN HOST: Republicans running for president ravaged, savaged, and maybe damaged each other on the debate stage last night -- attacks and insults reaching a new low. Was anyone able to escape unscathed? Welcome back to EARLY START. I'm Miguel Marquez.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN HOST: A remarkable 24 hours in politics, folks. If you were sleeping we're going to bring you up to speed.

MARQUEZ: Wow.

ROMANS: Thirty-one minutes past the hour. I'm Christine Romans. Let's break this down. Breaking overnight a down and dirty debate, Donald Trump at the center of it all. Is that a surprise? For the whole two hours Republican candidates bashed each other, sometimes in the coarsest terms.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In this campaign, for the last year, Donald Trump has basically mocked everybody with personal attacks. He's done so to people that are sitting on the stage today. He's done so about people that disabled. He's done it about every other candidate in this race. So, if there's anyone who's ever deserved to be attacked that way, it's been Donald Trump.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This little guy has lied so much --

RUBIO: Here we go.

TRUMP: -- about my record.

RUBIO: Here we go with the personal attacks.

TRUMP: He has lied so much.

I've won 10, he's won three or four. Last week -- in fact, on Tuesday -- I was a half a million votes higher than him. I was a million votes higher than Marco -- one million votes. That's a lot of votes. RUBIO: Two-thirds of the people who have cast a vote in the

Republican primary or caucus have voted against you. They do not want you to be our nominee.

TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And if we nominate Donald we're going to spend the spring, the fall, and the summer with the Republican nominee facing a fraud trial --

TRUMP: Oh, stop it.

CRUZ: -- with Hillary Clinton --

TRUMP: It's just a minor case.

CRUZ: -- saying why did you give my campaign and my foundation a $100,000 --

TRUMP: It's a minor civil case. You're lying, Ted.

CRUZ: Breathe -- you can do it. You could breathe. I know it's hard. I know it's hard, but just --

RUBIO: When they're done with the yoga, can I answer a question.

CRUZ: You cannot.

JOHN KASICH (R-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I can get the crossover votes. You see, because throughout this campaign I've talked about issues. I have never tried to go and get into these kind of scrums that we're seeing here on the stage, and people say everywhere I go, you seem to be the adult on the stage.

CHRIS WALLACE, HOST, FOX NEWS: I have a policy question for you, sir.

RUBIO: Let's see if he answers it.

TRUMP: I will. Don't worry about it, Marco. Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it little Marco, I will.

Look at those hands. Are they small hands? And, he referred to my hands. If they're small something else must be small. I guarantee you there's no problem. I guarantee it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: Chief political correspondent Dana Bash was in the spin room for us and she talked to the candidates after the debate.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Christine and Miguel, as expected, this debate between the four remaining candidates in this beautiful theater here in Detroit was as raucous as they come. Really intense, especially when it comes to everybody taking aim at the front-runner. The man in the center stage, Donald Trump.

Now, he was here. This was the spin room before everybody cleared out, and I got a chance to talk to Mr. Trump, asking him about how felt specifically about the idea that people were questioning whether or not he really is a man who keeps his word and tells it like it is. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: No, I think I explained it very well. I thought it was very easy to explain and according to every single poll Iwon the debate by a lot. I'm in the 70's, which is a lot when you have four people on a stage.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Now, Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz -- they were really going after Donald Trump. But there was one man on the debate stage -- the fourth, John Kasich -- who refused to engage. In fact, he made it pretty clear that that was his strategy, as he has done throughout this campaign, and saying that he doesn't want to get into it. He doesn't want to get into the bickering. He doesn't want to get into the name calling, and he just wants to talk about his record, both as governor of Ohio and before that in Congress. I also got a chance to talk to him after the debate.

[05:35:16]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: You were clearly trying to be the adult in the room --

KASICH: Yes.

BASH: -- but given where you are and where the delegates are after all of these contests, do you think Republican voters are looking for an adult at this point?

KASICH: No, I do, and I'm going to win Ohio and when I win Ohio it's a whole new ballgame. You know, winning Ohio means I'm going to -- I'm now on home turf.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Now, for candidates like John Kasich, who really thrives on having this kind of platform on the debate stage, it could be very beneficial, and even he said so. But for the other candidates, unclear how much this debate really moved the ball. We're going to really see when the next contests start this Saturday. And, of course, right here in Michigan -- the reason they held this debate here -- this primary -- it's one that John Kasich is really focusing on -- is this Tuesday -- Christine and Miguel.

MARQUEZ: Thank you, Dana Bash. Now, helping us to illuminate this rich discourse and sort through all the Republican rhetoric, our senior media correspondent, Brian Stelter, host of Reliable Sources of course. And, CNN political analyst and Bloomberg View columnist Josh Rogin live in our D.C. bureau today. Good morning to you both.

JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, COLUMNIST, BLOOMBERG VIEW: Good morning.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Hello.

MARQUEZ: Pretty grade school -- fourth, maybe fifth grade -- stuff last night at certain points, but the day that Donald Trump had with Romney coming out against and then this debate with both sides going after this guy, does this only confirm his position as the anti- establishment candidate and make his support even stronger -- Josh?

ROGIN: Yes. No, I think what you saw is the Republican opponents going for the high road on the policy level and also going for the low road. They're trying everything and nothing's worked, right? All it's done is reinforce the narrative that Donald Trump has been peddling, which is that he's the victim, that the establishment and the media is out to get him, and he keeps winning states.

I mean, look at those states coming up. He's way ahead in Michigan, he's up in Ohio, he's up in Florida. So, yes, the Republican establishment has decided to get down in the mud with Donald Trump and it makes for this ridiculous scene where everyone's yelling at each other, insulting each other, and the debate -- it becomes very funny and less substantial.

But, there's no sign yet. We'll have to wait for the polls to come out in a couple of days, but so far there's no evidence that any of this is damaging Donald Trump. You can expect it to continue and they're going to keep trying all the way to March 15th.

STELTER: You know, the audience is part of this, too. I was struck by the idea that it almost sounded like an episode of Jerry Springer. The audience cheering, sometimes booing. I was told that the RNC had to intervene during the intermissions, in some cases removing people from the crowd that were too rowdy.

ROMANS: It's kind of bizarre, kind of.

STELTER: It's not just about -- well, that's the thing.

ROMANS: What is it that is inspiring people here?

STELTER: In some ways it's the natural result of a reality TV star running for president. It feels more like reality TV, but it's not just --

MARQUEZ: And it's a society that is accustomed to reality TV.

STELTER: That's right. It's not just the candidates. I would put it partly on the audience. When you have people in the crowd screaming, hooting and hollering, it's not just about what the candidates are saying. It's also about how they react to them.

ROMANS: I just think a manhood joke in the first 10 minutes -- or, a reference in the first 10 minutes -- just sets the table here.

ROGIN: Right. ROMANS: And I'll tell you, Josh, it's so interesting because you had Megyn Kelly. Some people were saying this is the rematch of Megyn Kelly and Donald Trump. She stuck to her facts, she was fact-checking on the sly, and she was really pressing him about his flip-flopping on different positions. His chaotic foreign policy and chaotic positions in some cases. Watch what she did here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEGYN KELLY, FOX HOST: Mr. Trump, one of the things people love about you is they believe you tell it like it is. But time and time again in this campaign you have actually told the voters one thing, only to reverse yourself within weeks or even sometimes days. We've teed up just three examples in a videotape similar to those we used with Sen. Rubio and Sen. Cruz in the last debate. The first is on whether the war in Afghanistan was a mistake. Watch.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: What about Afghanistan? Do you believe that American boots should stay on the ground in Afghanistan to stabilize the situation?

TRUMP: We made a terrible mistake getting involved there in the first place. That thing will collapse about two seconds after they leave. Just as I said that Iraq was going to collapse after we leave.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: About Afghanistan, you said we made a terrible mistake getting involved there in the first place.

TRUMP: We made a mistake going into Iraq. I've never said we made a mistake going into Afghanistan.

CAMEROTA: This -- our question was about Afghanistan. And that day, on October 6th, was about Afghanistan.

TRUMP: Well, I'll tell you, I never said that. OK, wouldn't matter. I never said it.

KELLY: And there are many other examples. So how is any of this telling it like it is?

TRUMP: Well, on Afghanistan, I did mean Iraq. I think you have to stay in Afghanistan for a while because of the fact that you're right next to Pakistan which has nuclear weapons, and we have to protect that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: So, Donald Trump tells it like it is as he says he right at the moment until he sees it a different way, whether its H1B-visas, whether it's, you know -- any number of positions or policies. But his supporters don't seem to care.

[05:40:32]

ROGIN: Right. I mean, Megyn Kelly came prepared with the facts. She had him dead to rights on a number of flip-flops, including Afghanistan, including Syrian refugees. Some of the flip-flops he just owned up to, you know -- he wasn't ashamed of at all.

The problem, of course, is that over time and over the course of these debates, what Donald Trump has said about foreign policy and national security totally contradicts himself. Doesn't make any sense, and he kind of reveals a basic lack of understanding and lack of curiosity about how these things really work. And that should be shocking to a lot of people.

I think you saw yesterday, 100 national security officials in the Republican establishment came out and said we could never vote for Trump. So this is peeling off a big part of the Republican Party who are generally concerned, and even scared, that Donald Trump could have his hands on the button and could be in charge of sending troops into harm's way while he's openly advocating for torture and war crimes, and proudly doing so. And that's really alarming to a lot of people, including me.

But, as you said, the GOP electorate does not view the establishment favorably. They were trying to unseat that establishment. Donald Trump is their best chance for doing that, so they're willing to overlook the fact that he's not making any sense on foreign policy and saying a lot of ridiculous things because they're that angry with the GOP officials that are in power now.

MARQUEZ: And I take it, Brian, that Trump's use of the language about his hands and his other bodily parts is just --

ROMANS: Just hands, just hands. You can say it.

MARQUEZ: -- is meant -- no, that will be another story -- is meant just to grab the headline and keep the conversation on him.

STELTER: Yes, Trump actually chose to bring up his hands and then bring up maybe other parts of his male anatomy on purpose maybe in order to get that attention. He spoke for 27 minutes during the debate. Marco Rubio spoke for about 14 minutes. There was a big difference -- about a 13-minute difference.

Now, Trump, once again, was the longest speaker. He was able to dominate the conversation and the debate was on Trump's terms. At the end of the night we heard from the moderators asking will you pledge to support the nominee? All four of these candidates said they would support the nominee, whether it's Donald Trump or not. I thought that was a revealing moment.

You know, afterwards, Frank Luntz had one of his focus groups on Fox. Twenty-two of the 25 participants said this is hurting the Republican Party. It's going to be harder for us to win in the fall. That's why I think we heard from Mitt Romney yesterday.

ROMANS: Yes.

STELTER: Why we're going to continue to. I think that Gloria Borger's sitting down with him later today, so we'll continue to hear from Romney and others who agree with him. ROMANS: This whole discussion we've just had -- we just now mentioned Mitt Romney by talking about his sexual prowess in the first 10 minutes of the debate. Donald Trump knocked Mitt Romney off the front page in some cases. Guys, thank you so much. Nice to see both of you.

ROGIN: Thanks.

STELTER: Likewise.

MARQUEZ: Now, Bernie Sanders stepping up his attack on Hillary Clinton ahead of the weekend elections. The new strategy in his campaign. That's coming up.

[05:42:42]

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[05:47:62]

ROMANS: Good morning. Bernie Sanders is campaigning in Michigan today, with that state's primary looming next Tuesday. Sanders is stepping up his attacks on Hillary Clinton, hitting her hard on trade. CNN's Jeff Zeleny has more on Sanders new, aggressive strategy.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Christine and Miguel, we are one day away from another set of Democratic caucuses and primaries. Nebraska and Kansas on Saturday, Louisiana as well, and Maine on Sunday. Now, Bernie Sanders believes that he can win three of those.

On that, the Clinton campaign does not disagree. Now, this is becoming a race of delegates, of course. The Clinton campaign is coming out strong after Super Tuesday with a big lead in the delegate hunt, but Sen. Sanders could make up big ground this weekend.

It's one of the reasons he is going to college campuses here in Lincoln, Nebraska, to Lawrence, Kansas, on to campuses in Michigan. He is focusing on the younger vote, but also working class voters. Others who are fed up with Washington. He visited Lincoln, Nebraska and got loud cheers from an otherwise conservative state. Of course, many Democrats there are happy to have a presidential candidate visit at all, and they certainly turned out to see Bernie Sanders.

Some Democrats, though, are wondering about the tone of his campaign. I asked him if he thought he should tone down his rhetoric against Sec. Clinton.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In many ways Democrats could say what they want. We're in this race to win it. I don't run negative campaign ads, but I do think it is appropriate that in a campaign you distinguish your differences with your opponents. Otherwise, why run? (END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So you can see, Sen. Sanders has no plans of changing his approach. Now, they are both working towards Sunday -- the next CNN presidential debate in Flint, Michigan. Of course, that is leading into the key states primary on Tuesday in Michigan. That state will help determine how this Democratic delegate fight goes on -- Christine and Miguel.

ROMANS: All right, Jeff Zeleny. Thanks for that, Jeff. You know, Hillary Clinton not on the campaign trail last night. Instead, she was live tweeting that GOP debate. This one reading, "The more time that passes, the scarier this gets. #GOPdebate." And her followers were tweeting stuff like crazy.

MARQUEZ: She's getting very tweetable. She's getting very into it all of a sudden.

ROMANS: She been the Facebook grandma, you know?

MARQUEZ: Wow.

ROMANS: No, I mean, she's, you know -- for her team.

MARQUEZ: They're giffy.

ROMANS: All right, giffy grandma. We see a Democratic contest shifting to the Midwest. CNN hosts the next debate from Flint, Michigan. You heard Jeff mention that. That's on Sunday. That's the CNN Democratic presidential debate, Sunday night at 8:00 p.m. only on CNN. Important it's in Flint, too. I'm really glad it's there.

MARQUEZ: Yes, it's a huge point. It's an important point about where it is.

ROMANS: Right.

MARQUEZ: Let's take a look at what's coming up "NEW DAY". Our own Christopher Cuomo joins us.

ROMANS: Good morning, sunshine.

MARQUEZ: He's busy there. Hello there, Mr. Cuomo.

CUOMO: Hello, my handsome and beautiful friends. I will give you an advance on the first line that will come out of my mouth this morning. The line of the night, "I have no problem. I guarantee it." Donald Trump defending himself on several levels last night at the fiery Republican debate.

ROMANS: That was one level only.

MARQUEZ: Oh, dear.

[05:51:04] CUOMO: We will all have to add a few entries to the list of things I never thought I would hear in a presidential election column that you may be keeping. We're going to take you through why we were hearing what we were hearing last night. What is the state of play in this race?

So much has changed, whether you're Cruz, Rubio -- and less so, Donald Trump. And we saw it all play out last night. The strategies are clear now. The hopes seem to be no longer about beating Donald Trump, but just beating him down. Why, and what do they think could happen at a convention?

We have a lot of inside reporting for you. We're also going to hear from Marco Rubio. He's going to make the case for what he believes his path forward is. We have advisors on, as well, from the campaigns to take us through it. John Kasich -- we're going to talk about him and what this means for him going forward, as well.

And what is this all leading up to? This Saturday, Sunday, Monday, we have big states coming in. CNN's going to have coverage all the way through, but we'll tee it up for you because last night was the appetizer serving up a little something to voters about what happens this weekend.

MARQUEZ: Stop that.

CUOMO: That is your minds. You are filthy-minded.

MARQUEZ: Thank you very much. Great get on Rubio, by the way. It's fantastic.

CUOMO: Yes. I have no problem. I guarantee it. Wait for the T- shirt.

ROMANS: All right, Mr. Cuomo, I'm glad it's Friday. A raucous, rowdy, at times raunchy Republican debate. That is what Chris Cuomo was talking about. But, what did undecided voters at our CNN viewing party have to say about all those attacks? We have got that next.

[05:52:48]

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[05:57:07]

ROMANS: Grand Rapids, in southwestern Michigan, traditionally the most Republican corner of that state, so what did voters there think of that debate last night? We sent our Gary Tuchman there. He spoke with some of them -- Gary.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Christine, Miguel, we're in Grand Rapids, Michigan. This was the home of the 38th president of the United States, the late Gerald Ford, so there was a lot of Republican pride here. We are in the Gerald R. Ford Republican Party headquarters in Kent County, Michigan here in Grand Rapids. Hello, everybody. A lot of Republic pride here, right? First question of mine. Now that this debate is over, and this was not a boring debate, right?

AUDIENCE: No.

TUCHMAN: It was lively. Who is supporting here for president? Voting for Donald Trump Tuesday?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

TUCHMAN: OK, what about Ted Cruz?

AUDIENCE: (Cheering).

TUCHMAN: Marco Rubio?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

TUCHMAN: John Kasich?

AUDIENCE: (Cheering).

TUCHMAN: Now, this would have warmed John Kasich's heart because he needs a good showing here in Michigan, and he really needs to win Ohio on the 15th. But he needs to do well in Michigan and this crowd looks like it's supporting John Kasich. And here's what I want to talk about. This debate, like Isaid, was not boring. There were a lot more criticisms, more jokes, more back and forth between the candidates. How many of you are comfortable with that?

AUDIENCE: (Raising hands).

TUCHMAN: Like to see what we saw during this debate? How many of you are uncomfortable with it?

AUDIENCE: (Raising hands).

TUCHMAN: I mean, I watched you and it looked like a lot of you were just kind of cringing. Like it was kind of combination of world wrestling and the housewives on Bravo going back and forth. Does it trouble you? How do you feel about that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's disturbing. This isn't what we expect out of our elected officials. We expect poise, we expect them at the end of the day to what's right for all of us. And I'll say what Gov. Kasich said, for our neighborhoods, for our communities. Battling back and forth like it's a Facebook feed or Twitter feed doesn't do anyone anything, and I don't think it's a real person. I don't think it tells us anything other than they're children, and, they're supposed to be leading the greatest country in this world.

TUCHMAN: And the final question for you. Not very many Donald Trump supporters here. If Donald Trump gets the nomination, how many of you will not support Donald Trump?

AUDIENCE: (Raising hands).

TUCHMAN: That's a lot of people. How many of you would vote for a Democrat?

AUDIENCE: (Raising hands).

TUCHMAN: So, there's five of you here at Republican Party headquarters who would vote for a Democrat. That will not warm the hearts of Republicans, seeing that. Christine and Miguel, back to you.

ROMANS: All right, Gary Tuchman. Thank you for that, Gary.

MARQUEZ: We love Gary.

ROMANS: Love him.

MARQUEZ: The kids over at "NEW DAY" breaking down that raucous, rowdy Republican debate. They have their work cut out for them. Starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRUZ: Count to 10, Donald. Count to 10.

TRUMP: Give me a break.

CRUZ: Count to 10.

RUBIO: And he's trying to con people into giving them their vote.

TRUMP: The people of Florida can't stand him. He couldn't get elected dog catcher.

CRUZ: Donald's record was one of repeatedly hiring illegal aliens.

TRUMP: This little guy has lied so much --

RUBIO: Here we go.

TRUMP: -- about my record.

RUBIO: Here we go.

KASICH: Let's stop fighting.

RUBIO: We are not going to turn over the conservative movement to someone who things the nuclear triad is a rock band from the 1980's.

TRUMP: He referred to my hands. If they're small, something else must be small. I guarantee you there's no problem.

SANDERS: My opponent says well, Bernie's a nice guy but he's not electable.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The stakes in this election have never been higher.

SANDERS: We're in this race to win it. (END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota, and Michaela Pereira.

CUOMO: Good morning. Welcome to your new day. It is Friday, March 4th, 6:00 in the east, and here's the line of the night. "I have no problem. I guarantee it." Donald Trump, defending himself on several levels at the fiery debate in Detroit last night. Donald Trump in the unusual role of pinata as senators Rubio and Cruz tag-teamed him, sometimes with the help of moderators.

It was an insult insanity contest passing as political process. At one point, Trump using that line I just told you about -- no problem -- to boast about the size of his manhood.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: The raucous debate coming hours after establishment leaders on the GOP side went on the attack. Mitt Romney delivering scathing commentary on Trump's character and fitness for office, hoping to slow Trump's momentum this weekend. We'll talk about all of that with --