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Early Start with John Berman and Zoraida Sambolin
Sanders Wins Michigan, Clinton Takes Mississippi; Trump Wins Michigan and Mississippi; North Korea Claims It Has Miniaturized Nuclear Warheads; Donald Trump Wins Hawaii GOP Caucuses; George Martin Dies at 90; Sanders Beats Clinton in Michigan; All Rubio's Chips on Florida. Aired 2-3a ET
Aired March 09, 2016 - 02:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[02:00:00]
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: It is not over yet. We are still counting votes in this special morning-after Super Tuesday sequel edition of EARLY START. I'm John Berman.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Christine Romans. It is Wednesday, March 9th. We want to welcome all of our viewers here in the U.S. and around the world for this special coverage.
BERMAN: And a big, big story out of Michigan, where Bernie Sanders despite what everyone said going in, all of the polls show going in, he upsets Hillary Clinton in the state of Michigan, winning that primary there, barely, but a big win and psychological victory for the Sanders campaign.
Hillary Clinton took Mississippi by a lot. And she did, in fact, win the most delegates of the night. But that Bernie Sanders in Michigan was huge. And even before it was official, Bernie Sanders called it a fantastic night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What tonight means is that the Bernie Sanders campaign, the people's -- the revolution, the people's revolution that we're talking about, the political revolution that we are talking about, is strong in every part of the country. And, frankly, we believe that our strongest areas are yet to happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: All right.
What does this mean for the delegate race?
As we said, Hillary Clinton actually won the most delegates tonight and she does lead in that hunt, 1,234 to 567. Those numbers you're looking at right there, they do include super delegates. But even without the super delegates, Hillary Clinton leads by more than 200 and she extended her lead overnight.
ROMANS: All right. For the Republicans, a very big night for Donald Trump, Trump sweeping the victory in the Michigan and Mississippi primaries, dominated the Republican field in those two major races.
Ted Cruz, a good night for Ted Cruz, winning the primary in Idaho. Votes still being counted in the Hawaii caucuses. You can take a look at these very early numbers in Hawaii. We're watching them come in here, 27 percent reporting here, precincts reporting.
Look at that, 46.6 percent for Donald Trump. We're of course not ready to call this with only 27 percent reporting. But he has 288 votes ahead. Trump at a victory news conference, says his opponents tried but failed to take him down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think what this shows, really more than anything else, is that advertising is not as important, it really isn't as important as confidence because there has never been more money spent on hitting somebody than was spent on me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMANS: All right. So the Republican delegate count: Donald Trump, 447; Ted Cruz, 346; Marco Rubio, 154; John Kasich, 53. A disappointing night, a very disappointing night for Rubio, finishing dead last in Michigan.
Could this be the death knell for his campaign?
Can he hang on to compete next week in his home state of Florida?
MJ Lee, CNN Politics and Money reporter, joins us with more on the winners and losers and what it all means going forward.
I guess I'll start with the Republicans because that's where we just finished. An OK night for Ted Cruz. A great night for Donald Trump.
And Rubio, on his last legs?
MJ LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, a very good night for Donald Trump, really cementing his position as the Republican front-runner, winning two states, giving one to Ted Cruz, though, who won Idaho, his seventh win so far this cycle.
And you're right, for Kasich and Rubio, very disappointing nights. Kasich did all right in the state of Michigan. But that is a state where he campaigned very hard. So he should have done well there.
Rubio had no victories, at least so far tonight. It doesn't seem like he is going to pull off a victory in Hawaii. So he is walking away, probably from Super Tuesday, with zero victories and not very many delegates. And an interesting figure from the exit polling that we've gotten and
it's always interesting to dissect the exit poll numbers. It showed that angry voters, voters who say they are angry, 10-2, vote most for Trump.
In Mississippi, you see these numbers, 58 percent of voters who are angry with the federal government voted for Trump; 34 percent went to Cruz; 4 percent of those voters, voting for Rubio.
BERMAN: Michigan, Mississippi and Idaho, Marco Rubio is running a grand total of zero delegates -- zero delegates. We are still counting Hawaii literally right now as we speak. The Hawaii numbers still coming in. He will likely end up with a delegate or two or three there but blanked everywhere else. That is a big story on the Republican side.
Let's talk Democrats, MJ. An upset in Michigan that neither the Clinton campaign, the Sanders campaign nor the national media saw coming.
LEE: That's right. I think the Clinton campaign is really wondering right now what went --
[02:05:00]
LEE: -- wrong in Michigan?
This was a state that the Clinton campaign expected to win and ended up losing to Sanders. Granted it was not a big win by Sanders. And by big win, I mean the margins were not that large. Bernie Sanders, as you can see here, 49.9 percent; Hillary Clinton, 48.2 percent.
Now what the big picture takeaway from what happened in Michigan is that Hillary Clinton can no longer just focus on the general election. She needs to really focus on winning these primaries and caucuses and really keep her eye on the ball and focus on winning the Democratic nomination before moving on to taking on Donald Trump, saying that she is the candidate who can best beat the Republican eventual nominee.
BERMAN: Let's bring the rest of the panel and continue this discussion. We're joined by Alex Burns, national political reporter for "The New York Times;" Josh Rogin, CNN political analyst and columnist for "Bloomberg View" and Dylan Byers, CNN senior reporter for media and politics in Miami.
We have some sound of Hillary Clinton, tonight, talking about, not Bernie Sanders, talking about Donald Trump, which may be indicative of perhaps a misstep that Clinton campaign made over the last several days. Let's listen to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We can't be talking about building walls or turning the clock back. We have to build on what made America great in the first place, our energy and optimism, our openness and creativity. Nobody works harder than Americans. Nobody innovates better. Nobody
dreams bigger. And if we work together, I know America will outcompete anybody anywhere in the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: So Dylan, a couple of interesting things about that speech. Number one, it happened while Donald Trump was giving his victory news conference. So not a lot of people saw it live.
Number two, it was before Michigan was official. But perhaps she saw the handwriting on the wall.
DYLAN BYERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, no question. I think her campaign was aware heading in to tonight and as tonight wore on that she wasn't going to do nearly as well in Michigan as her campaign thought and certainly as well as the polls thought.
I thought coming out, speaking while Donald Trump is speaking, there's no question the media is going to flock to Trump. It gives her the ability to sort of skate out of tonight without the spotlight on her.
I will say this, it goes back to this question about Hillary Clinton taking this primary for granted, thinking that she can pivot to the general election. And what we're seeing, both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are doing what front-runners do at this point in the campaign. They do pivot toward the general election.
The problem is that Democratic voters aren't willing yet to give up on Bernie Sanders. They're not going to hand this to Hillary Clinton.
And then on the Republican side, the Republican establishment isn't ready to hand this over to Donald Trump. So we're seeing two candidates who should be able to pivot to the general election right now and they're not able to do so.
ROMANS: Josh, we look at independents. We look at the exit polling, that would show how independents really broke for Bernie Sanders here. Hillary Clinton, leading in the delegate count, adding to her delegates here.
But really psychologically, those independents, those young people, also going for Bernie Sanders. It gives him more energy going forward to these states ahead.
JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: It also gives him, I think, a real stake in what the future of the Democratic Party, which is essentially what he's running for here. If he can't win, he wants to shape the agenda. He's having some successes doing that.
Hillary Clinton is trying to appeal to his voters. She's trying not to go too negative on him, so that she'll be able to bring him and his voters in to the fold. She needs them. She knows she needs them.
She's not talking to them yet in a way that they feel is respectful and the way that they feel is responsive to their needs. So that's what Bernie Sanders' mission is, is to make sure that If and when he does lose to Hillary Clinton, that his movement still gets its say in the Democratic Party from here on out.
BERMAN: OK. Stand by. Let's get a Hawaii update right now because we are counting votes in the Hawaii Republican caucuses. Let's throw the board up right now. Still with 27 percent of precincts in, Donald Trump ahead like 288 votes with 46.6 percent.
Joining us on the phone is the chair of the Hawaii Republican Party, Fritz Rohlfing. Fritz joins us again right now. We're looking at these numbers, 27 percent of precincts in. And Donald Trump leads by 288 votes.
Is this the type of lead, you think, could hold as the night goes on, Fritz?
FRITZ ROHLFING, CHAIR, HAWAII REPUBLICAN PARTY: I think he's clearly the front-runner. And he's probably going to end up that way. The Cruz campaign seems to be pretty strong. But it looks like Trump has enough of a lead, so that he probably won't get caught.
ROMANS: Fritz, talk to us about the turnout.
Have you been seeing this energized turnout that we've seen in so many other caucuses across the country?
ROHLFING: Yes, we have. And all of the polling locations have reported --
[02:10:00]
ROHLFING: -- a healthy turnout. And so we're very interested to get some of the bigger precincts in. Some of the smaller ones reported first because they were able to count their ballots first. So we are anxiously awaiting word from other areas.
BERMAN: If there's one issue that mattered to Hawaii Republicans today and tonight, what would you say it is?
ROHLFING: Well, I think just the stature of the country, I think, is something that concerns us in Hawaii on an international basis. We're out here in the middle of the Pacific. And we're maybe more sensitive to things that are going on in Asia, North Korea and places like that.
So I think Hawaii voters have always been very supportive of the military. And I think that is coloring how voters are evaluating the presidential candidates in voting.
ROMANS: Fritz, we're seeing pictures there of the long lines at some of these locations, these caucus locations. We'll keep -- we'll check in with you again very, very soon, as you are counting these votes. Fritz, thank you very much.
BERMAN: Alex Burns is with us, national reporter for "The New York Times." Alex, you wrote an article two weeks ago that set the political world
on fire right now. The Republican establishment especially showing fear and panic in some ways that Donald Trump would be the ultimate nominee.
How do you think tonight's results will influence that feeling?
Big wins in Michigan. Big wins in Mississippi. A second-place finish, it looks like, in Idaho and maybe a victory in Hawaii.
ALEX BURNS, "THE NEW YORK TIMES" John, I think the big difference that you're going to see after tonight is that when we wrote that article two weeks back, there was still considerable hope among establishment Republicans that Marco Rubio would be able to emerge as really the consensus alternative to Donald Trump, that he would rally everyone around his banner.
Tonight there's really just no evidence to suggest that he is still capable of doing that. He has a fight for survival on his hands in Florida next week and probably the best that he can hope for at this point is a win that just keeps him going to the next round of contests, not something that's going to necessarily make him a unifying figure in the party.
So as an alternative to rallying around Rubio, I think what you've seen is big donors in the party, big voices on the Right in Washington and on Capitol Hill just speaking out against Donald Trump directly and hoping that voters will make their choices between the alternatives to slow him down and throw this thing into an open convention.
ROMANS: We have a couple of seconds here. But I got to say, the wins for Donald Trump last night have been indicative of what we've seen across the country, two very different states, overwhelmingly going for Donald Trump -- Josh.
ROGIN: Oh, sorry. Yes. The bottom line here is that the Rubio campaign has one chance left. He has to go to Florida. Trump, all he has to do is hold the table; for any of these campaigns to make a play against Donald Trump, they have to have an overwhelming number of votes. And it just looks less and less likely. I think you're going to see in the next two weeks unprecedented spending, tens of millions of dollars spent on the Stop Trump campaign. It literally is the last-ditch effort.
BERMAN: We'll talk a lot more about Florida. We'll talk a lot more about the road ahead in the coming minutes for the Republicans because things may have changed a great deal tonight. Stand by, guys. March Madness continues on CNN.
Tonight, a huge debate, Univision debate. CNN will simulcast. I will say much more important now than ever before, especially after the upset win by Bernie Sanders overnight in Michigan. This debate is at 9 o'clock Eastern time. We follow by a special post-debate edition of "AC360" at 11:00 pm Eastern. Then Thursday night, a CNN Republican presidential debate also from
Miami. That is a huge deal as we were just talking, maybe the last chance for Marco Rubio to change anything.
Then we're just getting this in. Donald Trump is going to be a guest on "NEW DAY" later this morning. We're told that's coming at 6:30 am Eastern time.
ROMANS: All right. The results in Michigan, sending shock waves through the Democratic Party.
How did Bernie Sanders do it?
And what's the state of the race now?
We get your reaction next.
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[02:15:00]
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ERROL BARNETT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: -- these images just from the state-run newspaper. And they show leader Kim Jong-un visiting a facility where the warheads were allegedly made. CNN cannot independently verify North Korea's claims. Paula Hancocks joins us now from Seoul with more on this -- Paula.
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Errol, it's not the first time that North Korea has claimed it can miniaturize a nuclear weapon. But it is the first time that we're hearing this from the North Korean leader, Kim Jong-un himself. And it's the first time we are seeing these kinds of photos.
Now intelligence agencies around the world will be poring over these photos right now to try and find out if it gives them any clues, any indication as to what the true capability of North Korea is.
We know that U.S. officials have said in the past they believe North Korea has the capability to miniaturize a nuclear weapon, put it onto a warhead and then put it onto a missile, which can then be deployed. But they didn't know whether or not, -- well, clearly, it has not been tested at this point. It is an untested capability.
So this will be very interesting to those experts watching closely. Now it comes just a couple days as well after North Korea threatened nuclear war against Washington and Seoul, again, rhetoric they have used in the past. But that was because of the joint military drills between the U.S. and South Korea, which are ongoing at the moment and will be for the next eight weeks, always angering Pyongyang. And of course it follows January's nuclear test, which Pyongyang claims was an H-bomb, and February's satellite launch. So this really just raises the tension on an already tense Korean Peninsula -- Errol.
BARNETT: Indeed. It certainly is a troubling development. We know you'll continue to watch it closely. Paula Hancocks, live for us in Seoul.
That is your CNN news now. I'll see you later their hour. Now back to a special election edition of EARLY START.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: This has been so far a campaign focused on the issues. And I'm proud of the campaign that Senator Sanders and I are running.
(APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: We have our differences, which you can see when we debate. But I'll tell you what, those differences pale in comparison to what's happening on the Republican side.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: The big story of the night may be the results in Michigan where Bernie Sanders scored an upset. But the results we're watching right now are out of Hawaii, where they are still counting votes in the Hawaii Republican caucuses.
We have some new numbers, a new batch of votes just counted. Hopefully, we can throw these up and you can take a look. Here we go. With 36 percent of the vote in, Donald Trump's lead is now 44 percent, 31 percent for Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio with 13 percent -- and he did send people out there to campaign -- John Kasich at 9 percent. So a 13 percent lead for Donald Trump. It's 312 votes. Not a lot of votes. But more and more numbers coming in. And he is maintaining his lead there. We will keep on counting throughout the morning.
ROMANS: And the turnout in Hawaii, really good turnout there at these caucus sites. Pretty much everything, though, pointed to a Hillary Clinton victory in the Michigan Democratic primary. But Bernie Sanders scored a shocking upset.
How did he do it?
CNN's Wolf Blitzer spoke with Sanders' campaign manager, Jeff Weaver.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: I don't believe even you guys thought that Bernie Sanders would win in Michigan, did you?
JEFF WEAVER, SANDERS CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Well, we knew it was closing, Wolf. And obviously, in these types of situations it's hard to know how strongly you're going to close. But it was clear last night we were closing strongly but we didn't know at the end of the day where we were going to get over the hump or not, which we obviously did.
BLITZER: Because clearly, we saw Brianna Keilar at the site of what was going to be your rally. He spoke much earlier, if you thought he was going to win, presumably you would have waited for a victory speech, right?
WEAVER: Well, it was a very late night for a victory speech, given how late we've gone, Wolf, but he spoke to a -- many, many thousands of people here in Miami earlier
[02:20:00]
WEAVER: -- a very enthusiastic crowd. Everywhere he goes, he's received by these -- crowds of thousands and thousands of people. Certainly was the case in Michigan -- and let me on behalf of Bernie and the campaign really thank the people of Michigan for standing up to the pundits, the establishment, the super PACs, Wall Street and all the corporate interests, who have been trying so hard to stop Bernie Sanders' campaign.
BLITZER: Why do you believe he won in Michigan tonight?
WEAVER: Well, I think there were a few reasons, Wolf. I think this issue of trade, Senator Sanders has opposed these disastrous trade deals that have been devastating Michigan, Ohio and other states for so many years. He has been a consistent opponent of them. Secretary Clinton has been a consistent supporter. And people all across Michigan know that their state has been devastated by deindustrialization and it's the policies that Hillary Clinton supported and apparently still supports that caused that.
So I think that was a powerful message. And that message in Michigan resonated across racial lines. As you know, Michigan once had a vibrant black middle class, (INAUDIBLE) the pride of the nation and it's really been devastated.
People we met in Michigan, African Americans talked about, you know, the prosperity that used to be there among the African American community, which has been lost. You see that not in personal finances but in places like Flint, Michigan, and Detroit. You've well seen the films of the schools there, how they're falling apart.
And that's because the tax base has been destroyed in those communities because factories have left. I mean, Flint, Michigan, lost 11 automobile-related factories as a result of bad trade deals that's really harmed that community and so many others.
BLITZER: But to make a dent in terms of her delegate lead right, you're going to have to win by bigger margins than 51-49, right?
WEAVER: Look, the calendar clearly was set up in a way that benefited the secretary at the beginning. She's been first lady in Arkansas for over a decade. She had a lot of strong ties across the South. People knew her there. She had developed relationships with people. But as we move forward, the calendar moves very much in our favor.
And I think you've seen in states like Kansas, where Bernie Sanders won by 30-plus points, Maine, where he won by 30-plus points and across the North, you know, other than Michigan, he's won every state by double digits. And that going forward is going to allow him to pick up the extra delegates he needs in these states to put together the delegates necessary to be the candidate who wins the Democratic nomination.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: One final question: (INAUDIBLE) tomorrow night in Miami, what's he going to do?
What's his strategy to go after Hillary Clinton?
WEAVER: Well, it's not going after Hillary Clinton, Wolf. It's about laying out his agenda for America, about how we're going to rebuild the middle class, how we're going to deal with the racial injustice in this country and social injustice. That's the message that he took to Michigan that resonated so powerfully with people there and that's going to resonate with people in Missouri and Illinois, Ohio, North Carolina and Florida on March 15th.
BLITZER: Jeff Weaver, congratulations to you, congratulations to the senator on the win in Michigan tonight. We'll continue these conversations down the road. We'll see you in Miami tomorrow at that debate. CNN will televise that Univision debate, 9:00 pm Eastern, a very important debate. Jeff Weaver, thanks very much.
WEAVER: Thank you, Wolf.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: That's an incredibly great interview. Let's get some reaction here from our panel.
Alex, first I want to go to you first.
Does Hillary Clinton have a chance to reset the stage for herself this week?
Now moving forward to Miami?
BURNS: She sure does. And I think that the fact that Florida is up next is kind of a gift to her in general. That's a state where, if she were to just continue winning all the various constituent groups in the Democratic Party by the same margins that she performed in Michigan and Mississippi, she will win Florida and she will win Florida comfortably.
So, Christine, as you're looking ahead, we can talk about how this is sort of a setback for her, spiritually and symbolically. The fact is, the fundamentals of this Democratic race, Sanders has still not shown that he can challenge the fundamentals that point very much in her favor. BERMAN: No, Dylan, that's certainly true. And the delegate math does work in her favor. And she actually won more delegates tonight than Bernie Sanders did.
But the flip side of this is, had Bernie Sanders lost Michigan and certainly, Dylan, had Bernie Sanders lost Michigan by what the polls said he was going to, people this morning would be talking about his campaign being over.
BYERS: Yes, that's absolutely right. First of all, I think it's important, like Alex said, to just take a step back and breathe for a second. Hillary Clinton remains the front-runner. She picked up more delegates tonight. She is certainly poised to take the Democratic nomination.
And, again, the map favors her in a big way. She's obviously got huge numbers going into Florida. And that's going to be a boon for her. You look at how this race has played out; Sanders gets huge momentum after New Hampshire. But then we go into Nevada and South Carolina.
Now Sanders has renewed momentum after Michigan. But we go into Florida.
The question for me is, how can he do in Ohio?
He's trailing her by double-digits there. But of course all the polls had him trailing her in Michigan by double digits.
[02:25:00]
BYERS: But your larger point is right, which is that by winning Michigan, he has reset the narrative, not so much about what he can achieve in the primary process but about these red flags and alarm bells that should be going off for the Hillary Clinton campaign, about her inability to generate enthusiasm and about her inability to push an economic message that really appeals to those people in the Rust Belt and elsewhere, who do feel economically disenfranchised and are looking for more robust talk in terms of what that candidate is going to do to get them jobs and to create a better life for them.
ROMANS: Josh, it's so interesting because some of the things that are really resonating with those Bernie Sanders voters are things that are also resonating with the Donald Trump voters. And by that, I mean trade, this feeling that somehow all these trade laws, trade agreements the United States has embarked upon, with presidents -- both parties have not been good for the American worker. That's something that has really resonated for Donald Trump in South Carolina in those exit polls we saw, also resonating for Bernie Sanders in Michigan.
Also among independents breaking for Bernie Sanders, young people breaking for Bernie Sanders, how does Hillary Clinton, Josh, appeal to that without changing who she is as a candidate?
ROGIN: Well, I think you've hit on it, is that Hillary Clinton can't change who she is because she's such a known entity. She was a free trader for years. She pushed the trade deals. She most recently came out against the Trans-Pacific Partnership, based on what she said was a new reading of the details.
Voters who are very into the trade issue don't buy that. And because of Hillary Clinton's problems with trustworthiness they doubt the sincerity of her late position on trade. So she's really stuck on that one.
For Donald Trump, it's a different situation because he is pro-free trade and pro-fair trade. So it's sort of like, oh, he prefers chocolate and vanilla. Like he has his cake and he eats it, too. And the voters don't seem to care.
So Donald Trump has turned the issue upside down by being -- getting the free traders and getting the fair traders and not explaining how he plans to square that circle at all. So that's kind of disruptive at the very least.
BERMAN: Ah, policy and Donald Trump. Maybe it will come up Thursday night's debate. In fact, I know it will.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It will.
(CROSSTALK)
ROMANS: All right, stick with us. Coming up, Hillary Clinton went big against Bernie Sanders on the auto bailout.
Did that move backfire on her in Michigan?
We have got more on that next.
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[02:30:00]
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Every single person that's attacked me has gone down. OK?
I don't want to mention names. Let's not mention names, OK? They're out. They're gone. But you can take a look at virtually every single person, we started off with 17. We're down to four. Of the four, they're pretty much all gone. OK, pretty much. They didn't do so well tonight, folks. OK. I'm not going to say anybody didn't do well, they didn't do well. There's only one person did well tonight, Donald Trump, I will tell you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: That's Donald J. Trump, in his victory news conference/statement/I'm selling steaks moment tonight from Florida after he won Michigan and Mississippi. We are counting votes as we speak in Hawaii. Let's give you the
latest update right now, 51 percent of the vote in now. Donald Trump at 45 percent, Ted Cruz in second at 31 percent. Donald Trump has a 531-point lead. We're talking to the chair of the Hawaii Republican Party. He's saying he expected record turnout. He says he also expects, based on what he sees, he thinks Donald Trump will hang onto this lead. We haven't called it yet but obviously the numbers moving in his favor. And if it does continue like this, this would be a third victory for Donald Trump tonight.
Let's bring back our panel. They join us now.
MJ Lee, I want to start with you.
You were watching that Donald Trump event. Then he'd only won two states. He didn't even know about Hawaii then. One can only imagine what he might say now after the Hawaii results come in.
LEE: Yes, no, I was watching the Donald Trump press conference/infomercial pretty carefully. But, no, I think that Trump, clearly taking a victory lap tonight, putting into sharp focus the fact that he is clearly the Republican front-runner, continues to be the Republican front-runner and is the candidate that had the best night.
I thought what was actually very striking, though, about his speech tonight was the fact that he sounded a little more subdued. He had the audience. He was in a very comfortable place for him, Florida, as you all know, is his second home. His friends were in the audience.
However, I notice that he did not attack some of his critics and folks in the Republican Party that he is more used to taking a harsher tone against, folks like Paul Ryan. He said, I have great respect for Paul Ryan.
On Mitt Romney, his supporters started to boo when he mentioned Romney's name. And he started saying, no, no, don't do that. He's a very nice man. And that -- and even though he said that every single person who has attacked him (INAUDIBLE) down, when he mentioned Lindsey Graham, his tone was not the sort of vitriolic tone that he usually takes against Graham, probably the person that he likes to mock and insult the most.
So I thought that this was an interesting sort of change in tone coming from Donald Trump tonight. Perhaps it was because as you know a couple days ago, at the last debate, he talked about his -- you know, the size of his hands and perhaps the size of his manhood. And he got a lot of flak for that. And I wonder if this is Trump realizing that he maybe wants to take a more presidential tone. We have said this before so it could be short-lived but who knows.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Let's listen to a little bit he said last night about this presidential tone. Oh, let's wait. We've got -- we can call Hawaii, I believe.
BERMAN: Yes. We have a CNN projection right now. Let's make it official. CNN does project that Donald Trump has won the Hawaii Republican caucuses his third victory of the night. He had wins in Mississippi, Michigan, a second place finish it looks like in Idaho and now he wins Hawaii.
[02:35:00]
BERMAN: There are 19 delegates at stake in Hawaii. Is all proportional so he won't get all 19 and everyone will get something out of Hawaii. But another notch on the belt for Donald Trump --
(CROSSTALK)
ROMANS: It was a good night for Donald Trump. We talked to the chair of the Republican Party there, said they had great turnout, great turnout, the best turnout they've seen in years, in a lifetime he said there, 531 votes ahead, 45.2 percent, with now more than half of the precincts reporting.
Let's talk about the tone of Donald Trump last night, even before he won the Hawaii caucuses. Let's listen to how he said he can be presidential.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I can be more presidential than anybody. I can be more presidential as I want to be. I can be more presidential than anybody. You know, when I have 16 people coming at me from 16 different angles, you don't want to be so presidential. You have to win. You have to beat them back, right?
And but I would say more presidential -- and I've said this a couple of times -- more presidential than anybody other than the great Abe Lincoln. He was very presidential, right?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMANS: The great Abe Lincoln.
Dylan Byers, you have written a lot about the establishment's unease with the persona of Donald Trump, of the brand of Donald Trump and the way he has been on the campaign trail.
Do you think he can flip a switch and become a different candidate, a presidential candidate?
DYLAN BYERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's going to be very hard for him to do it. But of course if anyone can do it, it's Donald Trump. And he continues to confound all political wisdom. Even the fact that on these election nights, he's transitioned to doing news conferences, where he takes questions from reporters instead of victory rallies. That sends a signal that he is trying to look presidential. When he had Chris Christie behind him on Super Tuesday, it almost looked like a president-vice president or at least a sort of joint ticket. Now the -- his knack for stagecraft, I mean he's sort of hawking Trump wines and Trump steaks and Trump bottled water --
ROMANS: But is that presidential?
(CROSSTALK)
BYERS: No, it's not. It's absolutely not presidential. And you know, I was writing about this earlier tonight and I spoke to our colleague, David Axelrod. And what David Axelrod told me is, yes, he is trying to be presidential by holding these press conferences. But until he changes his tone and his rhetoric and these sort of goofy -- this goofy shtick, where he is selling his own products or defending his own products, it looks more like a "Saturday Night Live" cold open.
And that's the big problem for Donald Trump. He is trying to transition to being the general election candidate. But he has done so much over the course of the last nine months to alienate the middle, alienate the left, of course, that it's going to be very hard for anyone to take him seriously.
But again, underestimating Donald Trump is something we've spent nine months doing. So I would caution against his -- us questioning his ability to do that.
BERMAN: Just so you know what we're looking at, in case it's not clear, that's Trump spring water that they sell at Trump resorts. That's Trump wine that Trump brags about. And there on the right is a plate of Trump steak which he may or may not have any relationship with. But that was all there right next to him at this event tonight.
Alex Burns, last word to you, Hawaii, we just projected it for Donald Trump, three more wins tonight. This has got to change the psychology of this race now going forward, one week before these big winner-take- all states.
ALEX BURNS, "THE NEW YORK TIMES" It really does. And the biggest impact of Trump winning Hawaii is just denying even a minor trophy win to somebody Marco Rubio, that there was a hope in that camp that maybe he could come out of tonight with just some shred of not even momentum but just dignity from a strong showing in a state with very, very little at stake in the way of delegates. And clearly that did not pan out.
BERMAN: All right. We have a lot more going on. The fallout from the big Hawaii caucuses ahead. The fallout from Bernie Sanders. Huge upset in Michigan. A lot more to discuss. Stick around.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): This is CNN breaking news.
ERROL BARNETT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, everyone. I'm Errol Barnett. We have breaking news for you. The so-called fifth Beatle has died peacefully at home, according to his management company.
George Martin was the record producer who signed The Beatles to a contract in 1962. He also produced and arranged most of their music. Beatle Ringo Starr tweeted his condolences. Martin was 90.
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BARNETT: I'll see you at the top of the hour for "CNN NEWSROOM." Now back to EARLY START.
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BERMAN: You can see the results right there for the Michigan Democratic primary, a flat-out stunner. Bernie Sanders won, upsetting Hillary Clinton there by less 1 percent. But a lot of people thought Hillary Clinton might win by double digits. The Clinton campaign thought it would win. The Sanders campaign pretty much thought the Clinton campaign would win and all of the polls said Hillary Clinton would win.
The only people that did not say so, the voting population of Michigan. You can take a look there at the states won to date, Michigan obviously very important, the industrial Midwest, a diverse state. Now Bernie Sanders notches a key victory. Though Hillary Clinton did pick up the most delegates tonight.
Let's discuss what it all means. Joining us again, our panel.
Alex, it was interesting because, at the debate, the last Democratic debate, Sunday night, which was on CNN, a lot of people thought Hillary Clinton might have scored points initially when she said that Bernie Sanders voted against the auto bailout.
Of course, that vote was part of a Wall Street bailout, which Bernie Sanders absolutely voted against. So at the time it was like, oh, Hillary Clinton surprised everyone on stage. But as time passed after that, there was this notion that maybe it was a cheap shot and maybe it hurt her in the primary overnight?
BURNS: Yes. And when you look at the moments in this primary so far when Clinton has looked strongest, it's actually not when she is really taking it to Sanders directly on hard issues of policy. She scored some real points on issues like especially gun control, I would point to.
But it's really when she's been in places like South Carolina, like Nevada and delivering a really expansive and affirmative message about her qualifications and her candidacy, where she has seemed to take control of the race. And when she has been sort of in this hand-to- hand combat with a candidate who is sort of plainly of lesser political stature, that has not really panned out particularly well.
ROMANS: Let's listen to what something she said last night about what kind of president she would be, the president for whom, exactly. Listen.
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HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I want to be the president, not for those who are already successful. They don't need me. I want to be the president for the struggling and the striving, for people who have a dream and who are looking for a way to achieve that dream.
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ROMANS: Yes, Josh, when you look at those exit polls, young people broke for her opponent.
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ROMANS: Right down the list, she did not have the overwhelming support that so many people thought even just a couple days ago she would in Michigan.
JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. She underperformed the polls and therefore she underperformed the expectations. Therefore her momentum is perceived to be going in the wrong direction. And this is all a momentum game. So that perception will last at least until the debate when she has another chance to reset the table.
But as we look forward to that debate, where the incentives for her and Bernie Sanders are totally opposite, Bernie Sanders now has an incentive to raise the stakes and to raise the tension and to go after her a little bit harder.
That's all upside for him and, for her, it's all downside. She has really nothing to gain by getting into a fight, by, as Alex said, punching down to Bernie Sanders. So she wants to take a risk-averse approach. And that's a clash that's going to play out on CNN.
BERMAN: Should be noted, that debate, by the way, is just a few hours from now. It's today now because today is actually Wednesday.
ROMANS: Because yesterday became today.
Let's look at some of these exit polls, especially this one about cares about me, I though was so interesting, when asked in Michigan, of those people who said the top quality is a candidate who cares about people like me, Bernie Sanders, 55 percent.
Dylan, people feel like he is speaking directly to them, these Sanders supporters, even though his message has been so consistent from the very beginning, break up the banks; free trade is bad.
Hillary Clinton doesn't get what it means. The top 1 percent get all the benefits of the expansion.
DYLAN BYERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. When it comes to a contest between someone who is perceived as the outsider, never mind how long they've been in Washington, and someone who is perceived to be -- have ties to banks, have been in the political game for as long as Hillary Clinton has, that's a no-brainer. People are going to feel like Bernie Sanders is speaking for them.
But look, again, it goes back to -- it's like Alex said. Hillary Clinton should not be wasting any time going after Bernie Sanders. Her biggest challenger is not Bernie Sanders. It's Hillary Clinton. She needs to find a way to create a more compelling message, a message that really gets people excited about her campaign.
And until she is able to do that, Bernie Sanders is going to keep coming back as the guy who can deliver that consistent, coherent, simple message about jobs and the economy and populism and anti-Wall Street. That is going to resonate with people until Hillary Clinton can find a way to generate enthusiasm for her own campaign.
LEE: And we should give her a little bit of credit where credit is due. She got a lot of criticism for using the pronoun "I" too much, sounding like she was focused on herself a little too much. And it's clear that over the last several months and weeks we've seen her moderate her tone a little bit.
Speak a little more in the tone of "we," talking about the country as a collective. And clearly taking a playbook from Sanders, which has been working well with younger voters, with lower and middle income- class voters, as well.
BERMAN: MJ, you have reporting on some tactical changes that the Clinton team may take out of Michigan and institute going forward. We'll talk about that in a little bit.
March Madness does continue on CNN in just a few hours. Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton, they debate in Florida. The Univision Democratic debate will be simulcast in English right here on CNN --
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BERMAN: -- leaving for Miami in a few hours. But this is now so much more important than we even thought it would be. A big Democratic debate after this Michigan shocker, that's at 9:00 pm Eastern, followed by a special post-debate edition of "AC360" at 11:00 pm Eastern.
And then Thursday night, also in Miami, the Republican presidential debate. Again, talk about something that could have some serious fireworks. That comes from the University of Miami.
And coming up later this morning, Donald Trump, the big winner in Michigan, Mississippi and Hawaii, will appear on "NEW DAY," that's at 6:30 am Eastern time.
ROMANS: All right. Coming up, another disappointing primary night for Marco Rubio. Got to get to this part of the story. The senator from Florida says it's all come down to his home state now. More on the challenges for Rubio -- next.
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TRUMP: Well, I have no message to Marco. I think that, you know, he has to make his own -- you know, it's been a tough night. But he's going to make his own decision. I've actually had a good relationship with Marco, believe it or not. He became hostile about two weeks ago. And it didn't work.
See?
Hostility works for some people. It doesn't work for everybody.
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ROMANS: Marco Rubio has not won one state on this Super Tuesday, not even coming in second.
BERMAN: No. There will be no delegates in Mississippi, Michigan or Idaho, a third place finish it looks like in Hawaii, picked up a couple of delegates there but not even close to the showing he wanted.
Let's bring back our panel to discuss the implications here.
Josh Rogin, you have got some reporting on what's going on in Rubio world right now. This is not the kind of Marcomentum they were looking for.
ROGIN: All right, so Team Rubio cannot deny that they had a very bad night. But they have a story to tell about how they can go forward from here.
Here it is. What they say is their basic strategy, what they've been telling their donors, what they've been telling their supporters all week long that they have a Florida-focused strategy and that if you want to stop Donald Trump in Florida, the only person with a shot, albeit a long shot, to stop Donald Trump in Florida is Marco Rubio. That strategy hasn't changed.
They know that the anti-Trump movement has a lot of voters. The problem of course is -- and their internal numbers show this -- is that those anti-Trump voters are what they call ruthlessly mobile. They are nondiscerning. In other words, if the non-Trump voters see Cruz as the best alternative to Trump, they will move to Cruz.
If they see Rubio as the best internal -- as the best challenger to Trump, they will move to Rubio. And that's the biggest concern in Rubioland right now.
Here's some exclusive reporting. There's going to be a meeting, an emergency meeting of all of the Rubio power donors Thursday morning in Miami, before the debate. That will be their pitch to these donors at these meeting. Stick with us through the Florida primary. The Florida primary goes south, there is nothing they can do. And where they're all betting on the candidate, the candidate has to perform at Thursday night's debate. If he doesn't do that, all bets are off.
ROMANS: Ruthlessly mobile, I love the vocabulary inside the guts of a political organization.
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ROMANS: Alex, let's listen to something that Marco Rubio said last night. He says he can win his home state. Listen.
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SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLA., PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I want you to know, you believed in me once. I am asking you to believe again. We can win this election and we will. I need your help next Tuesday because we're not just going to win the Florida primary. We are going to win Florida in November.
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ROMANS: What, Alex, is the path forward for this candidate?
BURNS: I think that even Rubio's advisers would acknowledge at this point that his path forward is winning Florida to stay in the game and to take the state's delegates off the table for Donald Trump, not so that Rubio can suddenly vault ahead of Trump in this very long delegate race, but so that they can deny Trump a majority of those delegates going into the convention which gets a lot easier to do if Florida comes off the table.
And then you have to hope that over the next two months of a protracted primary with probably four candidates sticking in it all the way to the end, Rubio can regain some of the footing that he clearly lost between Iowa and New Hampshire after that disastrous debate performance and sort of go back to the mainstream Republican electorate, to the mainstream party leaders in Washington and re- establish himself as the guy who's most (INAUDIBLE). You can hear, sort of listening to that strategy as I lay it out why it is such a long shot at this point.
BERMAN: And you know who is messing with that strategy?
Ted Cruz. He's got an event at 10:00 am tomorrow in Miami. Ted Cruz, taking it to Miami, taking it to Marco Rubio. We'll talk about the implications there.
Stay with us, everybody. We have so much more to get to at the top of the hour. Those Hawaii results, we just called that race for Donald Trump. Much more. We'll be right back.
