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Early Start with John Berman and Zoraida Sambolin
Super Tuesday 2 Results; Sanders Wins Michigan; Trump Takes 3 of 4 States; Should Rubio Drop Out? Aired 3-4a ET
Aired March 09, 2016 - 03:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[03:00:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: It's the morning after Super Tuesday part two edition of EARLY START. I'm John Berman.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Christine Romans. Nice to see you all this morning. It is Wednesday, March 9. It is 3:00 a.m. in the East.
BERMAN: Yes, Super Tuesday, the sequel with just a really surprising plot twist. Bernie Sanders pretty much out of nowhere, he wins the Michigan primary, an upset over Hillary Clinton. Now, Hillary Clinton did win Mississippi by a very big margin, and as a result, she did win the most delegates overnight. But the Bernie Sanders victory, in some ways the big story of the morning with very big implications. And even before the result was official, Bernie Sanders said he knew he was having a fantastic night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What tonight means is that the Bernie Sanders' campaign, the peoples, the revolution, the people's revolution that we are talking about, the political revolution that we are talking about is strong in every part of the country, and frankly, we believe that our strongest areas are yet to happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Let's look at the delegate math as it stands right now. Hillary Clinton with more than 1,200, Bernie Sanders at 572. This does include super delegates. But even if you take out the super delegates, Hillary Clinton leads by more than 200 delegates. And again, she did win more delegates overnight.
ROMANS: So, for the Republicans, some big news the past hour. We got to call Hawaii. Hawaii, the icing on the cake for Donald Trump. CNN projecting Trump, Trump is the winner of the caucuses there. Three more wins for the GOP front-runner. Trump also scoring big victories in the Michigan and Mississippi primary.
BERMAN: You can see that tweet right there, thank you, Hawaii. Donald Trump tweeting all night.
ROMANS: Basically dominated the Republican field in those other two races, as well, so Trump 2016. Not a bad night for Ted Cruz. Let's look at Cruz here. He took the GOP primary in Idaho. At a victory news conference, Trump directed his fire at attack ads by his campaign rivals, what he calls $38 million worth of horrible lies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think what this shows really more than anything else is that advertising is not as important, it really isn't as important as confidence. Because there has never been more money spent on hitting somebody than was spent on me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMANS: The Republican delegate count now, folks, Trump, 461. Ted Cruz, 360. Marco Rubio, 154. John Kasich, 54. Donald Trump having a great night last night. Ted Cruz solid, OK performance there. Gosh, Rubio is not --
BERMAN: Yes, on the delegate map there, one thing that's important, in Michigan, Mississippi, and Idaho, Marco Rubio won zero delegates. We're still waiting for Hawaii to see if he picked up a delegate there but if he did, it's only one or two. So four primaries, more than 150 delegates awarded tonight, it looks like Marco Rubio, maximum will get one or two. An awful, awful night for him.
ROMANS: All right, let's bring in our panel here. MJ Lee, CNN politics and money reporter joining us here. Let's talk about the results here, overall, MJ, because what we have here is an upset, a real upset in Michigan for Bernie Sanders. That's a big story line on the Democratic side. The story line on the Republican side is that, Ted Cruz, OK, Marco Rubio, not great, and Donald Trump, another fantastic night. Start with the Dems for us.
MJ LEE, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: That's right. I mean, boiling the night down, on the Democratic side, we saw something that we didn't expect to see. On the Republican side, we basically saw what we expected to see. So on the Democratic side, as you talked about, big upset in Michigan. Bernie Sanders defeating Hillary Clinton in the state, 49.9 percent versus 48.2 percent. So those numbers are actually getting closer and closer so this is a very close race. But at the end of the day, Hillary Clinton did lose and the Clinton campaign is already really sort of spinning why it is that they lost to Sanders, a state that they should have won, doing sort of an autopsy of what went wrong in the state, and as they look ahead to March 15, and important states like Ohio, they're going to be taking a lesson from tonight and making sure that they do not repeat the mistakes from tonight heading into next week.
BERMAN: On the Republican side, a lot of people are wondering, is Donald Trump vulnerable? That's what they were all saying heading into this last Super Tuesday. The results last night, three wins, doesn't look very vulnerable.
LEE: That's right. He is well on his way to the nomination, at least that is what he is telling his supporters and voters and meanwhile, Ted Cruz also cementing his position as probably the only Republican candidate in the field who has sort of a chance of taking on Donald Trump, giving him a run for his money, and all of this is not just because Cruz ended up winning the state of Idaho, but because Rubio and Kasich did not do well, you mentioned that Rubio did not get any delegates, maybe he'll pick up a couple in Hawaii. But even so, a very good night for Rubio. And for Kasich as well, even though he did come in third place, a close third place in Michigan.
[03:05:02] ROMANS: Let's go back to Hawaii, now, since you mentioned it. Another win for him there, his 15th state. CNN projecting Trump as the winner of the Hawaii GOP caucuses. We want to go to Fritz Rohlfing, the chairman of the Hawaii Republican Party. Fritz, nice to hear from you again. I hope you can hear us OK.
FRITZ ROHLFING, CHAIRMAN, HAWAII REPUBLICAN PARTY (via telephone): Yes, good morning again.
ROMANS: Good morning. 69 percent of your precincts have reported, CNN projecting that Donald Trump is the winner there with 44.5 percent of the vote. You say turnout was fantastic.
ROHLFING (via telephone): It really was. And now we're getting, we're totaling up the numbers, and we are surpassing 2012 for sure. And it will just be a question of by how much, and I think it will be maybe by 20 percent.
BERMAN: So we are projecting Donald Trump has won the Hawaii Republican caucuses. What do you attribute that victory to? Obviously, none of the candidates went and campaigned in Hawaii. So how did Donald Trump pull off a victory there?
ROHLFING (via telephone): It's branding. Everybody knows who Donald Trump is. He starts out with a big advantage, especially in a fractured field. So I think even though he's from New York, people know the Trump name in Hawaii and I think people, a lot of Hawaii Republicans think that he's the right guy.
ROMANS: Fritz, the right guy why? So there's the branding, people know the Donald Trump name, maybe they've seen it on a resort or maybe they've seen it on the front of a hotel, but what are the policies that the people in Hawaii want to see?
ROHLFING (via telephone): I think they're looking more at who can be a strong leader for the country. Hawaii has always been very supportive of our military. I think they would like to see a little more strength being shown internationally. I think that Donald Trump is somebody that they feel will do that.
BERMAN: All right. Fritz Rohlfing, the chair of the Hawaii Republican party. Thanks for being with us into the early morning hours, our time. I know it's probably time to head to the bar where you are. So thank you very much for joining us and helping us work through the Hawaii Republican caucuses, Fritz. Take care.
All right. Let's bring back our panel right now. Joining us, Josh Rogin, CNN political analyst, columnist from "Bloomberg View". Alex Burns, national political reporter for "The New York Times". Dylan Byers, CNN senior reporter for media and politics in Miami, and of course, MJ Lee is here with us as well. We just got off the phone, I suppose we should start, with the Hawaii Republican chair. Alex, let me start with you. Three wins for Donald Trump tonight. A second place finish for Ted Cruz. A big, big night. The notion that Donald Trump was vulnerable, that appears to be a thing of yesterday.
ALEX BURNS, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Sure. And look, if you see anyone tonight gaining a little bit of traction in the campaign against Trump, clearly that would be Ted Cruz. But that's really almost by default, that he is the last man standing in a race full of candidates who have tried their best and really fallen short in the states where they've chosen to stand and fight. John Kasich, I think we can't overstate what a disappointment it is for him to come in third behind Ted Cruz in a state like Michigan, where Kasich had virtually run a gubernatorial style campaign for almost a month now. So what we're seeing looking ahead is a lot of pressure on Rubio to sort of look in the mirror and ask himself what his future in this race and in national politics looks like, and a lot of pressure on Ted Cruz to really show that he can broaden his support beyond this sort of hardcore conservative base that has been enough so far to win him states like Idaho and Oklahoma.
ROMANS: You know, Josh Rogin, in about three hours we're going to get some new polling, CNN polling that's going to be, I think pretty helpful, because we're looking at March 15 already. The ink isn't even dry in some of these primaries and caucuses, and we're looking ahead. All these campaigns looking ahead here. What happens if you have got Donald Trump momentum now renewed heading into Florida? What does it mean for these other candidates? Is the stop Trump campaign over?
JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: No. The stop Trump campaign is in high gear. You'll see a flood of ads like you've never before, especially in Florida, over the next two weeks. Interestingly, those ads weren't up in Michigan and Mississippi. So there's a feeling that they can still have an effect. The problem is, who do they benefit? And also, the biggest question right now inside these campaigns is, does dropping out help or hurt Trump? If Rubio gets out, does that hand Trump Florida? There's an argument to be made that every delegate that Trump doesn't get is good. And there's another argument that says, the best way to defeat Trump is to get to a two-person race, and that's probably going to be Cruz versus Trump. And the last thing I'd say is, a lot of people are forgetting, there's a race in between now and March 15 that Marco Rubio has good chance of winning, that's the D.C. primary. Now you can be sure that D.C. Republicans are not going to elect Donald Trump or Ted Cruz.
[03:10:01] BERMAN: Yes, and of course, everyone will say that's inside the beltway. We saw that in Virginia, as well, that some of Marco Rubio's biggest support literally comes from inside the beltway. Let's shift back to the Democrats, Dylan, because, the shocker of a story. The polls had Hillary Clinton ahead by ten points or more in most cases heading into Michigan. Bernie Sanders, he squeaks out a victory there. It changes the story, not the delegate math, maybe it doesn't change the math, but changes the story of this Democratic race. DYLAN BYERS, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Yes, it absolutely changes the
story. Let's look ahead again to next Tuesday and let's talk about Ohio. Bernie Sanders continues to poll behind Hillary Clinton by double digits. But again, he was polling behind Hillary Clinton by double digits in Michigan. There's a new narrative here about Hillary Clinton's inability to take on Bernie Sanders in some of these key northern states, some of these rust belt states. And that's a big problem for Hillary Clinton, not just in terms of sewing up the nomination, but also in terms of proving that she has broad support among the Democratic base. If you look at a map, a county by county map across the United States of where Hillary Clinton has won, you will see that with the exception of Massachusetts, it is almost entirely in the South. Bernie Sanders' support is almost entirely in the North. For a candidate like Hillary Clinton who months ago, years ago, was being viewed as the presumptive nominee of the Democratic party, it doesn't look good to be losing that many states and that many counties. And of course, tonight, we also saw Bernie Sanders picking up support, not just among the young voters who he's appealed to for a long time, but also making inroads with African-American voters which of course were her firewall in states like South Carolina and on Super Tuesday.
ROMANS: Yes, Independents broke hard for Bernie Sanders, too, which might be why some of those polls were just so off earlier this week.
BERMAN: It's a good news and bad news thing, though, for Hillary Clinton, right? I mean, the bad news is, she's losing independents in many of these states she goes to. The good news is, if she consistently wins Democrats, and there are a lot of closed primaries coming up, too, so you can look at both sides right there. Stick around, everyone. So much more to discuss. So much more going on on CNN, starting today in the political world. Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton, they face off in a Univision Democratic presidential tonight at 9:00 p.m., simulcast on CNN. This debate so much more important, now, I think the stakes so much higher because of what just happened in Michigan. Again, that's at 9:00, followed by a special "AC 360" at 11:00 p.m. Eastern. Then Thursday night, from Miami, the Republican presidential debate, only here on CNN at the University of Miami. Jake Tapper moderates. Huge stakes there, as well.
ROMANS: Oh, and there's more. Fresh off his dominant Super Tuesday showing, Republican front-runner Donald Trump is a guest on NEW DAY at 6:30 a.m. Eastern time.
BERMAN: That should be interesting.
ROMANS: Is he bringing steaks? Coming up, the Michigan results come as a shock to many in the Clinton camp. What went wrong for Hillary Clinton? We've got that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROMANS: All right. Pretty much everything, everything pointed to a Hillary Clinton victory in the Michigan Democratic primary. But Bernie Sanders scored a shocking upset. How did he do it? CNN's Wolf Blitzer spoke with Sanders' campaign manager, Jeff Weaver. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I don't believe even you guys thought that Bernie Sanders would win in Michigan, did you?
JEFF WEAVER, CAMPAING MANAGER, BERNIE SANDERS FOR PRESIDENT (via telephone): Well, we knew it was closing, Wolf. And you know, obviously in these types of situations, it's hard to know how strongly you are going to close. But it was clear to us that we were closing strongly but we didn't know at the end of the day whether we were going to get over the hump or not, which we obviously did.
BLITZER: Because clearly, we saw Brianna Keilar at the site of what was going to be your rally. He spoke much earlier, if you thought he was going to win, presumably you would have waited for a victory speech, right?
WEAVER (via telephone): Well, I know it was going to be a very late night for a victory speech given how late we've gone, Wolf. But he spoke to many, many thousands of people here in Miami earlier, a very enthusiastic crowd. Everywhere he goes, he's received by crowds of thousands and thousands of people. Certainly was the case in Michigan and let me, on behalf of Bernie and the campaign, really thank the people of Michigan for standing up to the pundits, the establishment, the Super PACs, Wall Street, and all the corporate interests who have been trying to stop a Bernie Sanders' campaign.
BLITZER: Why do you believe he won in Michigan tonight?
WEAVER (via telephone): Well, I think there were a few reasons, Wolf. I think this issue of trade -- Senator Sanders has opposed these disastrous trade deals that have been devastating Michigan, Ohio, and other states for so many years. He has been a consistent opponent of them. And Secretary Clinton has been a consistent supporter, and people all across Michigan know that their state has been devastated by de-industrialization and it's a policy that Hillary Clinton supported and apparently still supports, that caused that. So I think that was a very powerful message, and that message in Michigan, resonated across racial lines. As you know, Michigan once had a vibrant black middle class, the pride of the nation, and it's really been devastated. People we met in Michigan, African-Americans, talked about the prosperity that used to be there among the African-American community, which has been lost. And you see that not just in personal finances but in places like Flint, Michigan and Detroit, you well have seen the films of the schools there, how they're falling apart, and that's because the tax base has been destroyed in those communities, because factories have left. I mean, Flint, Michigan lost 11 automobile related factories as a result of bad trade deals. It's really harmed that community and so many others.
BLITZER: But to make a dent in terms of her delegate lead right now, you're going to have to win by bigger margins than 51, 49, right?
WEAVER (via telephone): Look, the calendar clearly was set up in a way that benefited the secretary at the beginning. She was first lady in Arkansas for over a decade. She had a lot of strong ties across the South. People knew her there. She had developed relationships with people. But as we move forward, the calendar moves very much in our favor, and I think you've seen in states like Kansas where Bernie Sanders won by 30 plus points, Maine, where he won by 30 plus points, and across the North, other than Michigan, he's won every state by double digits, and that, going forward, is going to allow him to pick up the extra delegates he needs in these states to put together the delegates necessary to be the candidate who wins the Democratic nomination.
BLITZER: One final question, the debate tomorrow night in Miami -- what is he going to do? What's his strategy to go after Hillary Clinton?
WEAVER (via telephone): It's not about going after Hillary Clinton, Wolf. It's about laying out his agenda for America, about how we're going to rebuild the middle class, how we're going to deal with racial injustice in this country and social injustice. That's the message that he took to Michigan that resonated so powerfully with people there, that's going to resonate with people in Missouri and Illinois, Ohio, North Carolina, and Florida on March 15.
BLITZER: Jeff Weaver, congratulations to you. Congratulations to the senator on the win in Michigan tonight. We'll continue these conversations down the road. We'll see you in Miami tomorrow at that debate. CNN will televise that Univision debate, 9:00 p.m. Eastern, a very important debate. Jeff Weaver, thanks very much.
WEAVER (via telephone): Thank you, Wolf.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMANS: A great interview. Big upset in Michigan. Let's get some reaction. Alex Burns, "New York Times". This has got to be the highest hopes of that campaign, what happened in Michigan last night, talking about the Sanders campaign.
BURNS: Oh, you bet. If you're Bernie Sanders, you've so far, in this campaign, managed to sort of notch a couple wins in small and midsized, overwhelmingly white states; that's sort of the biggest deal coming out of Michigan. It's a big state, it's a state that's not sort of racially and economically homogeneous, so, look, going forward, Hillary Clinton still has very, very formidable support with black voters. We saw that in Michigan. We saw that even more dramatically in Mississippi, but this notion that Sanders had just a purely sort of really white coalition has begun to slip a little bit.
BERMAN: He chipped into that lead among the black vote. In other states, we've been seeing 80 percent, sometimes 90 percent, you look at Mississippi, among the black vote for Hillary Clinton. In Michigan, it was much less. It was 65 percent of the black vote, roughly, she had. Bernie Sanders had more than 30. You can see it right there. MJ, you've been doing some reporting on the Clinton campaign, sort of the autopsy. Barely over. Michigan's only been over for a few hours, but they're already trying to figure out what they did wrong. And they think there were mistakes that they made. LEE: Look, and I think the bottom line is that campaigning hard matters. And even in a state where the Clinton campaign thought that they would do well, we saw signs that they were not campaigning as aggressive as they had in a state like Nevada or South Carolina, for example. And those things actually end up counting, when people go to the polling stations. And the fact that Clinton only campaigned in places like Detroit and Flint and sort of neglected the other parts of the state where Sanders was really aggressively campaigning, I think that's clearly something the Clinton campaign now thinks could have hurt her. And the other thing is that the Clinton campaign now believes that perhaps the former secretary of state started focusing on the general election a little bit too much. She didn't remain focused on winning the Democratic nomination and you could tell in her tone, she was aiming her rhetoric at Donald Trump, often not naming him, but it was clear that that was who she was talking about, and really letting it get away from her that, this needs to come first, winning the Democratic nomination.
BERMAN: She's tried to (ph) pivot so many times, and every time she's tried to do it, she's been getting knocked down.
ROMANS: Josh, let's talk about pivoting then going forward, here. There are going to be other chances for her to hone her message, to try to appeal to independents, to try to appeal to young people, to try to figure out, what is that Bernie magic that's resonating so much among his supporters and show that she can be the candidate that unites all of them? What does she do heading towards Florida now?
ROGIN: Yes, I think the changes in her message have already been instituted. There's not much more she can do. What she can try to do is to tamp down the sort of heated rhetoric with Bernie and try in this debate not to get into a real fight with him that's going to alienate some of those voters, the voters that she's going to need. As she looks towards the later states and towards the general, the biggest question for Hillary Clinton is, how can she grow the party, how can she grow the base? So all of her calculations have to acknowledge the fact that she still hasn't reached the Bernie voters, and at the same time, realize that she's going to need them to fight against whoever it is, Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, you name it. So it's in her best interest to play nice, whether or not Bernie Sanders will oblige her is another question all together.
BERMAN: And Dylan Byers, you are an expert not just on politics but also the media. Hillary Clinton has had, shall we say, a complicated relationship with the media for many, many years. And this will just make things -- you know, again, she was hoping to turn her focus to the general election, maybe fly under the radar for a little while, and now that's just not going to happen. Now the spotlight will be on her once again. Hard questions will be asked once again.
[03:24:33] BYERS: Yes, and look, the chief complaint coming out of the Hillary Clinton campaign, as it's come out of Hillary land or Clinton world for so many years is that the media is far more critical of her than it is of her opponents. I think as the media begins to question again whether or not Bernie Sanders can sort of take a second crack at this, that is a complaint you're going to be hearing privately, maybe on background from a lot of people in Hillary Clinton's orbit. Now I do want to address one thing that Jeff Weaver told Wolf Blitzer which is, he talked about the way that the map favored Hillary Clinton in the beginning, but that going forward, it's going to favor Bernie Sanders. Obviously, Florida favors Hillary Clinton, and she's leading in almost every state in terms of the polls, but again, the polls haven't always been right. And I'm just looking at this calendar on my computer here, we're talking about going into northern states like Illinois, Ohio next Tuesday -- after that, we get into states like Washington State, and then we go, April 5 is Wisconsin. So there actually are a lot of states that Bernie Sanders can do well in if he can sustain this momentum, and there's certainly no question that he can sustain the money aspect of this campaign. So again, this could be a campaign that goes on well into April, if not longer.
ROMANS: Yes. Last night, he's proven again and again when he even had a slim victory, that he can raise more money. He's just raising money like crazy.
BERMAN: Bernie Sanders will never run out of money, period. That's not going to be the issue, and that's what ends so many campaigns. That will not be what ends the Bernie Sanders' campaign. Coming up, much more to discuss on this giant upset in Michigan. What might have caused it in terms of issues. Also, the Republican race. Donald Trump wins three out of four, when so many people thought he was vulnerable. What does this mean for the never-Trump movement? Is it, shall we say, nevermore?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDERS: I want to take this opportunity to thank the people of Michigan who kind of repudiated the polls that had us 20, 25 points down a few days ago, who repudiated the pundits who said that Bernie Sanders was not going anywhere.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, NEW DAY SHOW HOST: Bernie Sanders delivering a Michigan shocker while Hillary Clinton looks to the general election. What's going on in the democratic race?
Our panel here to weigh in. And M.J., I want to start with you. You know, we just did a story on CNN Money last week. You know, Bernie Sanders' his policy would be the largest piece tax increase for everybody in history. You know, how would you pay for all of these promises? Doesn't matter.
People listen to him on the campaign trail at least in Michigan that like what he said about trade. The young people like the independents like him. He won this victory astonishing, M.J.
M.J. LEE, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: And that sound bite that we just heard, too, is interesting because he's clearly trying to send this message. Do not count me out. I am not ready to be counted out yet. And remember, he made a victory speech, or an election night speech before he even knew that he had won Michigan.
So, interesting that that is the message that he's deciding to send to his voters, to his supporters, saying, I am still in this game. And the issues that you talk about I think were especially pertinent in a state like Michigan.
The two candidates have been really going at each other on issues that I think a lot of the times we think are a little wonky and not that interesting. I mean, free trade, international trade. I know you're very into those issues, that I am as well, but a lot of people are not.
But you look at the exit poll numbers and you see that Sanders' populist message apparently did worked in Michigan. He won 56 percent of the votes from people who said that international trade, they believe, takes away from American jobs.
ROMANS: He has connected the wonky thing of international trade to your job, to your factory job, to the deindustrialization as they say of Americas new west.
JOHN BERMAN, NEW START SHOW HOST: You know, it looks a little bit like Michigan, Ohio, parts of Illinois.
ROMANS: Yes.
BERMAN: Both of which vote...
(CROSSTALK)
ROMANS: Wisconsin.
BERMAN: Well, both Ohio and Illinois vote next Tuesday, right?
ROMANS: Right.
BERMAN: And so, this Michigan victory, Josh Rogin, you would think the Sanders' campaign would want to turn that directly into a campaign message, directly focused on Ohio and parts of Illinois.
JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. This is their chance, to get the Midwest belt secure, to rack up as much support as possible. You know, as everyone has noted, as they get into the later states, it gets worse and worse for them. This is their final push. That's why you see them spending all the money they have. This is the time that they should use it.
So, they can make these arguments and rack up these votes. It still doesn't spell a path to the nomination. And so, the question is, as Bernie Sanders is really racking millions of votes, it's really astonishing. All of these new voters, what will he do with that? What will he do with that movement?
How will the Clinton campaign try to incorporate that into their larger push? They haven't even gotten around to that in the longer that this process goes on, the longer that final negotiation, that final coming together is delayed.
ROMANS: Alex, let's put that back up, that map we just showed with the states, who has won which states and it's remarkable. I mean, I think it was Jeff Weaver who said earlier this week said to Hillary Clinton is indeed you're becoming a regional candidate.
Look, what kind of support can she hope, Alex, to get in this. How does she have to fine-tune her message or can she fine-tune her message? She's got such a, you know, such a history on some of these subjects.
ALEX BURNS, NEW YORK TIMES NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: Look, I think if you, you know, the notion that she's a regional candidate I think the Sanders campaign those are...
[03:35:00] (TECHNICAL PROBLEM)
ROMANS: Very big night in the democratic (AUDIO GAP). Stick with us folks because we're going to talk about the republicans after this.
Coming up, Donald Trump will be the first to tell you that he likes to win. And that's exactly what he did on Super Tuesday. Three more states in the Trump win column. We're going to break them down for you, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROMANS: It was another big Super Tuesday for that guy, Donald Trump, the republican frontrunner topping it off with a victory in the Hawaii caucuses after dominating wins in the Michigan and Mississippi primaries. The question, once again, can Trump be stopped? Or is it time to stop asking that question?
BERMAN: You know, can Trump be stopped? You know, we're joined again by our panel right now, Alex Burns, you have written a lot about can Trump be stopped. You know, there have been a lot of people who get to say, will it get to be a two-man race that is when Donald Trump will be stopped.
Well, there's evidence, certain evidence tonight that already is, you know, a two-man race. Ted Cruz won Idaho. Ted Cruz finished second in Michigan despite, you know, a feverish effort by John Kasich there. Ted Cruz finished second in Mississippi. Ted Cruz seems to be the only legitimate threat to say maybe in Ohio right now for Donald Trump.
BURNS: Well, and, John, if you look at sort of the movement in the race over the last few weeks, I don't think anybody 10 days ago would have pegged Ted Cruz to finish a strong second place in the State of Michigan. That's not a state that's particularly well matched to him.
I know that there are campaigns or outside groups that are pulling in states like Florida and Illinois that have him doing better than you would expect. A Texas senator who mainly appealed to Evangelicals and the far right to do particularly well in these states. So, there are indications of real momentum for Cruz among voters who
are just unequivocally opposed to Donald Trump. You probably have now one week left for somebody like John Kasich to make his case.
BERMAN: Ted Cruz has got an event at 10 a.m. this morning in Miami. But Ted Cruz super PAC, I was talking with Kellyanne Conway yesterday, they're advertising anti-Rubio ads in Florida. What's the Ted Cruz play in Florida right now?
BURNS: The play in Florida is finish Rubio and move on to Donald Trump, move on to the main event. That, you know, if you're the Rubio campaign, you're trying to make this case that as sort of ungentlemanly and sort of hurts the larger cost of stopping Trump for Cruz to try in kneecap Rubio in his home state. As far as Cruz sees it, those votes that Rubio is pulling in a place like Hawaii or place like Michigan are coming right out of Ted Cruz's side.
ROMANS: Josh, let's talk about team Rubio because you've been talking to folks there. What is their strategy here if Ted Cruz, you know, talk of a two-man race, and if Ted Cruz is not good for Marco Rubio.
ROGIN: Right. What they say is that if Ted Cruz achieves his goal and gets some of Rubio's votes in Florida that effectively hands Florida to Donald Trump, at which point Donald Trump would be unstoppable.
So, their argument is the only way to stop Trump is for Rubio to win Florida. And they acknowledge that that's a longshot, at best. So, that's what they're telling their donors. That's what they're saying. Now, the counter argument, of course, is that there is some evidence and some polling that shows that a two-way race is the best way to stop Trump.
And the entire narrative of the Rubio campaign right now is that we have to stop Trump. And that's why they're putting up tens of millions of dollars' worth of ads. They warn that there's -- you haven't yet seen the worst of the Trump upper research.
The Trump steaks, the Trump water. You know, all of that, that's just the first course. Wait until this week. You're going to see some stuff, I'm assured, that will -- that will definitely shock you. And the problem, of course, is that that doesn't actually benefit Rubio. Those Trump votes are most likely to get to...
(CROSSTALK)
ROMANS: Josh, we're showing these pictures from last night from the Donald Trump press conference/victory -- victory rally where there are some steaks there, there are some wine, there are some Trump water.
ROGIN: And I can give you a quick preview of what's coming. And I think you've seen some of this actually come from Rubio and Cruz. It's about Trump's business dealings abroad, it's about Trump's relationship with some actors including gangsters, mobsters. That's the kind of -- that's where we're going next.
So, we're going to be looking at all of these Trump projects. And, Trump, you know, he builds buildings all over the place, and he deals with some seedy characters. And you're going to see those come out sooner rather than later and we'll see if that has an effect.
BERMAN: Sooner? It's the middle of March. There is no sooner. It's already later.
(CROSSTALK)
[03:45:00] ROGIN: Sooner is later than never.
BERMAN: Sooner was two months ago. Dylan, we do have this debate Thursday night. And there's been this ongoing question about Donald Trump, you know, is restraint possible? Could he go on this debate stage Thursday night in Miami and play it safe? Should he try to go on that debate stage, Donald Trump, Thursday night and play it safe? What are your thoughts on what we might see on Thursday?
DYLAN BYERS, CNN SENIOR MEDIA AND POLITICS REPORTER: Well, I don't think there's any evidence of him showing restraint in any of these past debates. I mean, if anything, the last republican debate was, by far, the sort of most vicious and low brow of all the debates that we've seen so far.
And, look, Josh is absolutely right. This is about to get even bloodier and more vicious than we've seen at any point to date. And of course, it's a very good question to ask why it's taken so long for there to be a concerted effort from some of these candidates and from the GOP establishment against Trump.
But, look, with Rubio gunning for Trump, it's very hard to see how he sort of sits back and let that happen. I think we're going to see more of these insults. The sort of presidential tone that Trump has tried to cast is really one you see on election nights when he's standing alone on the stage. When he's sharing that stage with guys like Marco Rubio, I think the knives are out. I think the guns are out.
ROMANS: To come full circle. Let's listen to a little bit of sound from Donald Trump talking about Ted Cruz last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: One of the debates, the one before last, they asked Ted -- lying Ted. I call him the lying Ted. He holds the bible high, and he goes down, he puts the bible down and then he lies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMANS: Dylan, that's red meat, no fun intended sort of from last night, for his followers.
BYERS: Yes, no, it's absolutely red meat. Look, the number one thing that Trump has done more successfully than any other presidential candidate, at least that I'm aware of, is brand the competition. He branded Jeb Bush as low energy. He's branding Ted Cruz as lying Ted. Marco Rubio as little Rubio. Low and behold you go to the Drudge Report tonight and the lead image
of Marco Rubio it's called the shrinking campaign and the image has been doctored to bring him down to about 3 foot high. I mean, these brands stick.
You know, there's one thing that Trump has done exceedingly well. He's a branding master. And we saw that tonight with him laying out all of his Trump products and the way he's run his own campaign, and more significantly than anything in the way he's branded the competition.
BERMAN: All right. Guys, stand by. A lot more to discuss and a lot going on, starting tonight here on CNN. A democratic debate, a Univision debate simulcast on CNN at 9 p.m. A debate that takes on this new imports really after the Bernie Sanders upset in Michigan.
What will happen on the stage when they face off tonight? Nine o'clock Eastern, followed by a special edition of AC360 at 11 p.m. Then Thursday night, the CNN republican debate in Miami, 8.30 p.m. You just heard us talking about that. What kind of Donald Trump will we see on that stage?
ROMANS: But wait, there's more. Fresh off his dominant Super Tuesday showing, republican frontrunner Donald Trump is a guest this morning on New Day, 6.30 Eastern Time. Don't miss that.
BERMAN: All right. Coming up, we're going to talk more about Marco Rubio. Is it Florida or bust for him? As we sit here right now at 3.48 a.m., not a single delegate allocated to him from the contest on this Super Tuesday. He may pick up one or two from Hawaii, but not yet. We'll be right back.
[03:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROMANS: Marco Rubio trying to put a positive face on his campaign after Super Tuesday, but truth be told, there's just nothing positive on that face. It says it's not pretty Rubio essentially a no show.
BERMAN: Yes. No delegates in Mississippi, no delegates in Michigan, no delegates in Idaho. We're still waiting to see if he picks up, maybe one, maybe two in Hawaii. But looks pretty bleak.
All right. But even before the results came in, he made a bold prediction. CNN's Jason Carroll has more on that.
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A disappointing night for the Rubio camp, but not one that was unexpected. The camp not predicting they would have any wins during the Tuesday races. What they were hoping for was simply to add to their delegate count.
Their focus now, which has always been must win the State of Florida. That is where their focus is, that's where they've been campaigning Monday and Tuesday. That's where they'll be campaigning again today on Wednesday and again on Thursday. Rubio addressing the crowd, telling them he needs every single one of their votes. And also making a prediction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARCO RUBIO, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But I need your help. I believe with all my heart that the winner of the Florida primary next Tuesday will be the nominee of the Republican Party. And so, you are given an incredible task. You are given an incredible task a week from now, and I need your help. I need your vote.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARROLL: Trump topping Rubio in several polls here in the state but the Rubio camp undeterred by those poll numbers. Simply saying they know how to win this state. But once again, it is a state that they must win if Rubio has any hope of moving forward. John, Christine?
BERMAN: All right. Jason Carroll from Rubio world, which is a world right now in a little bit of distress.
Joining us again our panel right now, M.J. Lee. You know, Josh Rogin reported there would be a donor meeting on Thursday in Miami prior to the debate Thursday night. These donors, I have to imagine, are getting jittery.
ROGIN: So, what...
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: I was asking that to M.J., Josh. All right, M.J.?
ROMANS: Sorry.
LEE: No. I think Marco Rubio is on very thin ice with donors and also potential donors. When I reported a couple days ago about a meeting that Terry Sullivan, his campaign manager had with donors, it was interesting, there are some potential donors who previously had supported Jeb Bush.
That they were sitting in on this meeting trying to decide whether to switch sides and they made it clear, look, we don't want to get burned again, we don't appear like we've wasted our time and effort.
And I can guarantee you, looking at how Rubio is performing; they're not getting a lot of encouraging signs that they should actually start backing Rubio, let alone start pouring money into his campaign.
ROMANS: Josh, you weigh in here. I know you've been reporting on this, too.
[03:54:59] ROGIN: Yes. I know the donors all think they're strategists, they think they know how to solve this, right? As you can imagine the Rubio campaign thinking all this calls, what do you think we should do? What do you think we should do?
And as of a week ago, a lot of the donors were coming up with all these schemes of Bush -- I'm sorry of Rubio/Kasich ticket, a Cruz/Rubio deal. And you heard all of these scenarios that why don't just, guys, figure it out, if you want our money, you're going to have to come to some sort of agreement.
After tonight, you're not going to hear that anymore. There's no more incentive for Cruz to make a deal with Rubio or Kasich. He might as well just wait them out so all those imaginations that are talked about and sort the chattering class are going to go away.
BERMAN: Dylan, now it's 20 seconds left, each to you for a final word. Dylan, I'll put this about to you. Jeb bush, what does he do?
BYERS: Well, you know, Jeb Bush is probably going to have to make a decision pretty soon. I think what the entire GOP establishment is waiting to do is see who wins Florida and who wins Ohio. And in situation where Rubio losses Florida and Kasich wins Ohio, I think Bush and the establishment is going to have to start rethinking who their horse is in terms of the stop Trump movement.
ROMANS: Alex?
BURNS: Well, you know, I think part of this is going to depend heavily on this debate coming up at the end of the week. If Rubio can sort of stabilize himself and go into Florida with what looks like ahead of steam, there is going to be a pressure on Jeb Bush to get behind him. Short of that, you know, maybe the best you can hope for is sort of a Romney-like statement from Jeb Bush that Trump must be stopped and beyond that, you know, this is -- this is in God's hand and the hands of the voters.
ROMANS: All right. Great hour. Great analysis. Thanks, everybody, so much. Big morning ahead after a very big night for Donald Trump. Donald Trump's big night, Bernie Sanders with a stunning win. We've got much more special edition of Early Start, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[04:00:00] BERMAN: Big breaking political news this morning. Donald Trump rolls in a stunning upset for Bernie Sanders.
