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Early Start with John Berman and Zoraida Sambolin

Democrats Pivot to Next Week's Super Tuesday; CNN Republican Presidential Debate Tonight. Aired 4:30-5a ET

Aired March 10, 2016 - 04:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMEMRCIAL BREAK)

[04:31:33] CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking overnight: Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton in their most contentious debate yet, days before a crucial contest in states like Florida and Ohio. This as Republicans prepare to debate tonight on CNN. We are live.

Welcome back to EARLY START. In New York, I'm Christine Romans.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm John Berman at the University of Miami in Miami. Thirty-one minutes past the hour.

This is the site of tonight's Republican debate, but breaking overnight -- there was a Democratic debate. Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton, they faced off here in Miami in a bilingual debate sponsored by Univision and "The Washington Post". You can watch it right here on CNN.

Now, the timing of this was crucial. It was the Democrats' first meeting since the big drama in Michigan. Bernie Sanders big upset win in the Michigan primary.

Before that, Bernie Sanders -- sorry, before that, Hillary Clinton had been trying to pivot toward the general election in a possible contest with Donald Trump. But, you know, pivot no more. Now, she is dealing squarely with Bernie Sanders. Bernie Sanders dealing with her.

This had the feeling of a heavyweight fight. Some of the most direct exchanges yet. Two full hours worth.

Senior political correspondent Brianna Keilar with the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: John and Christine, Hillary Clinton getting some sharp questions about e-mail practices while secretary of state and about her trustworthiness. Bernie Sanders questioned by these moderators about being a career politician.

But at this Univision debate, it was immigration that was the big topic. Hillary Clinton hit Bernie Sanders for his failure to support comprehensive immigration reform in 2006 and 2007, when he sided with labor unions. And Bernie Sanders took on Hillary Clinton for her opposition to drivers licenses for undocumented immigrants, something that was an issue for her back in 2008.

Also, their positions on children fleeing violence in Central America came up.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Honduras and that region of the world may be the most violent region in our hemisphere, gang lords, vicious people, torturing people, doing horrible things to families. Children fled that part of the world to try, try, try, maybe, meet up with family members in this country and taking a route that was horrific, trying to start a new life. Secretary Clinton did not support those children coming into this country. I did.

(APPLAUSE)

JORGE RAMOS, DEBATE MODERATOR: But, again, yes or no. Can you promise tonight that you won't deport children, children who are already here?

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I will not deport children. I would not deport children. I do not want to deport family members either, Jorge.

SANDERS: So, to answer your question, no, I will not deport children from the United States of America.

KEILAR: This debate happening in the shadow of the Michigan primary where Bernie Sanders staged a massive upset and got some momentum despite still being down in the delegate math. But of these candidates are now pushing forward to these series of contests that we'll see next Tuesday. Even the Sanders campaign admits Florida is advantageous to Hillary Clinton.

But Bernie Sanders and his campaign, they are hoping that what happened in Michigan where they had a message that appealed to this industrial state, where labor unions are strong, that that may give them a toe-hold in Illinois and Ohio as well -- John and Christine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[04:35:03] BERMAN: All right. Brianna Keilar in Miami with us, thank you so much.

Let's talk more about the debate. Joining us, CNN politics reporter, Eric Bradner, here with me in Miami.

And, Eric, you know, this had the feel of the two-hour heavyweight match. You know, Larry Holmes and Jerry Coney, for you grownups out there who remember. They went at each other again and again and gain. Plus, you have the moderators asking really tough questions.

ERIC BRADNER, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Right, absolutely.

If you want evidence that Hillary Clinton's head is back in the Democratic primary after that loss in Michigan, you just had to look at the immigration exchange. First of all, she and Sanders spent 15 minutes basically having the kind of Senate committee room debate that would have driven Chris Christie crazy in a Republican debate.

But then they both took positions which are actually significant breaks with President Obama, promising no deportations. That's significant when you look at the general election and its evidence that Bernie Sanders is dragging this to the left and Hillary Clinton is willing to sort of meet him there.

So, Hillary Clinton is back in this. It was the knife fight the entire night, both clearly were both ready to attack the entire way through. This is really critical because not only is Florida, the site of the debate, a big election on Tuesday, but Ohio, Illinois, Missouri, North Carolina, places where the economy is key and where Bernie Sanders attacks have given him new traction, those will be big elections on Tuesday, too.

ROMANS: They will. If you look at his upset in Michigan, it shows you that his pure ideological play has been working with these voters, this anti-trade, the game is rigged against you. This is how I'm going to fix it with free health care, with free college, by taxing the rich, by breaking up the big banks. He said that again and again.

And last night, listen to what Hillary Clinton said last night about casting herself as a rational candidate while he is just selling emotion. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: Senator Sanders has talked about free college for everybody. He's talked about universal single payer health care for everybody. And yet when you ask questions, as many of us have, and more importantly, independent experts, it's very hard to get answers. You know, my dad used to say, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. We deserve answers about how these programs will actually work and how they would be paid for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: You know, Eric, the economists and folks at CNN money, if Bernie Sanders got everything he wanted, it would be the largest peace time tax increase in American history. People are not voting for a tax increase. They like what he's selling. Why?

BRADNER: They do. That's what makes this so hard for Hillary Clinton. She's basically telling the left wing of her party that its hopes and aspirations are impractical.

I don't think Bernie Sanders' supporters think that by electing him they will get all this. That's what he talks about on the stump, a political revolution. He will need a massive turnout numbers to get any of this done, but it does make it tricky for Hillary Clinton to attack him.

I thought it was interesting that she mentioned her dad, sort of invoking him, saying, you know, my dad said if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. It's a way of personalizing it and making it less like an economist attack, like an accountant attack on Bernie Sanders and sort of questioning the authenticity of these proposals. It's a more effective way to really go after --

BERMAN: Her dad was a Republican, though. I mean, she grew up a Republican in Illinois. I think there's that. So, I could see Bernie Sanders people talking about that.

But on that note of personalizing things, I do think with Hillary Clinton, one thing that is fascinating, she has been in the public eye for decades and decades, right? So, it's hard to find anything new about her.

But occasionally, she is more revealing about herself. Last night at the debate, she was revealing about this question of her political skills and why sometimes she doesn't connect with voters and younger voters.

Listen to her answer.

All right. Well, what she said which is really interesting, we played it the last half hour. She essentially said I'm not as good of a politician as my husband was, or as Barack Obama is. You know, I'm just me. That's just who I am.

We'll get this for you by the next half hour. But it was a really interesting piece of sound.

BRADNER: It was. It was striking to hear her admit that.

Authenticity is a big problem for her the entire race. She is very good at the policy stuff and studying and preparing for all of these big moments.

[04:40:03] But Bernie Sanders just comes off as a guy Democrats want to believe. Hillary Clinton's attacks on him have been so scattershot. She's sort of, you know, pointing out He aligned with the Koch brothers on one day. It just doesn't really -- it doesn't really work. So, this is a way of sort of asserting her own way of, you know, authenticity --

BERMAN: We can play that right now. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: I am not a natural politician, in case you have not noticed like my husband or President Obama. I have a view I have to do the best I can and get the results I can and make a difference in people's lives and hope that people see that I'm fighting for them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Pretty interesting.

BRADNER: Oh, yes, absolutely. That was a moment she hadn't -- she said that in a couple of speeches here and there, but never on a debate stage.

ROMANS: Eric and John, Hillary Clinton came out strong about the idea of being indicted for her e-mail scandal. Let's listen real quickly to that sound. I just want to ask you if you guys thought that was the right response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAMOS: If you've been indicted, will you drop out?

CLINTON: Oh, for goodness. It is not going to happen. I'm not even answering that question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: Was that a good moment for her?

BRADNER: I don't think Democratic primary voters care about that issue. I don't think it's going to hurt her. So, what else could she have said at that point, right? She can't say, you know, yes, I'm going to drop out.

So, yes, she deflected. It's not something that -- it's a general election issue, but not a primary issue.

BERMAN: I think that is the right answer. Democratic primary. Absolutely, the way to handle it and focus on other things.

And the other thing she wants to focus on right now, Tuesday with so many delegates at stake, you know, here in Florida, Ohio, Illinois, Missouri, North Carolina. You know, they're going to emerge and it's not going to over then. This is a long fight for months to come, Christine.

ROMANS: It sure is. All right, guys. Thanks. We'll be back to you in just a minute.

And we're going to talk a little bit about what's happening in the Republican side, because in hours, the Republicans running for president take the CNN debate stage, must days before the crucial elections John was just mentioning in Florida and Ohio. Will there be any upset or is Donald Trump unstoppable now?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[04:46:00] DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think Ted is actually a bad talker, pretty good debater, bad talker. Can't talk. I don't mind debating him at all. The problem is, when I debate somebody, then people say I'm not a nice person, but they say, you won the debate.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: So, bottom line, tomorrow night, you are expecting a different tone by you'll be ready -- TRUMP: I think it's going to be softer, but I'll be ready. I mean,

you know, I think Marco is going to be a different person. Marco's been, you know, mortally wounded. I -- you know, questions will Marco be there. These debates to me are getting very boring if you want to know the truth.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BERMAN: Donald Trump with our Anderson Cooper, talking about tonight's big debate here at the University of Miami. You can see picture, these are live preparations being made in the hall right now at this beautiful university campus. What a debate this promises to be.

Joined by CNN political reporter Eric Bradner.

Eric, this is it, right? This is the last debate before the big voting on Tuesday. Florida, winner-take-all. Ohio, winner-take-all. Big delegates at stage in Illinois and Missouri as well.

These candidates may never be on a debate stage together again.

BRADNER: Absolutely. It's hard to imagine that everyone survives on Tuesday. We are entering a new phase of this election, the winner- take-all states mean that dominos fall quickly. Lots of delegates move in a way or another in a way that has not happened so far. So, a lot of candidates are trying to recalibrate and figure out how to handle this evening.

Marco Rubio especially is under pressure. This is a home game for him. He's here in Miami, his hometown. He's under a ton of pressure to find some way to claw back into this before Tuesday. If he doesn't win Florida, he has no real path forward.

So, the question is what he's going to do to try to reassert himself or regain the stature he may have lost after going hard after Donald Trump.

Trump, meanwhile, is clearly the frontrunner right now. He is predicting a softer tone. He always mixes it up on the debate stage. So, it will be fascinating to see how these two handled that evening.

ROMANS: I think so, too. I was watching that interview with Anderson Cooper and Donald Trump last night. Donald Trump does a lot of interviews you guys, but he is trying of late or people have been telling him, close to him lately, try to appear more presidential, try to act like you have the nomination and you can be president of the United States.

And he sat down and Don -- and Don -- and Anderson really tried to get some specifics from him on policy. And there was a moment about Islam, and the war with Islam, or war with radical Islam that I think is illustrative of Donald Trump keeping his options open on what he thinks and what he'll do. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Do you think Islam is at war with the West?

TRUMP: I think Islam hates us. There's something there that is a tremendous hatred there. There's a tremendous hatred. We have to get to the bottom of it. There's an unbelievable hatred of us.

COOPER: In Islam itself?

TRUMP: You're going to have to figure that out.

COOPER: The question is, is there a war between the West and radical Islam or is there a war between the West and Islam as well?

TRUMP: It's radical, but it's very hard to define, it's very hard to separate because you don't know who is who.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: So, Donald Trump policy prescription is unclear. He was asked, you know, what would be the Trump doctrine of foreign policies. No, no, it's got to be case by case basis. There would be no Trump doctrine.

He said in ten minutes, he could fix corporate inversion, where there's companies go overseas and move their headquarters so that they can have lower taxes or get the money they have parked overseas. I could fix that in ten minutes, but he didn't say how.

Donald Trump is still not being specific about policy, is he, Eric?

BRADNER: No. He has the tremendous salesman-like quality to never allow himself to get pinned down on anything, to never commit all the way to anything. Yes. I mean, when he talks about trade, he is talking about Mexico and China and Japan.

[04:50:04] Well, what are you going to do about it? Are you going to start a trade war? He never really offers specific policy prescriptions. As a debate stage gets smaller, he is under more pressure to do that. That is something Ted Cruz has made a point of in recent debates.

But for Trump, it's all about showing strength. All about showing he can't be intimidated and won't back down. That is what people are buying into. They're buying into an idea that his personality --

ROMANS: It's almost like he is selling confidence. It's like he's selling, not selling a solution. And there is something happening in America that they want that confidence.

BRADNER: Yes, that's why it's so fascinating to watch his reaction to the Mitt Romney attacks, where he does this event on Tuesday night where he basically he brings out all of these products, the Trump steaks, and the Trump line --

ROMANS: QVC style.

(LAUGHTER) BRADNER: It's -- right. It's as if he can't let himself be portrayed as anything other than successful. But he is aware that is what he is selling. He is selling the Trump brand, just as he's been doing for 20-plus years. Only now he is doing it on the political stage.

BERMAN: Big debate tonight. The stakes are the delegates up for grabs, including Florida, winner-take-all, 99 delegates at stake. There is a power player in the state of Florida. Former Governor Jeb Bush you may remember was running for president not too long ago. He hasn't endorsed. A lot of talk that he would have endorsed Marco Rubio.

Now, we are learning that Jeb Bush is going to meet with all the non- Trump candidates. What is going on here?

BRADNER: So, this is really telling that he's not only meeting with Marco Rubio. So much was made about the sort of mentor-mentee relationship. These guys know each other since their days working together in Tallahassee. And now, here, Jeb Bush is meeting with Rubio and Ted Cruz and John Kasich.

What we do know he is not going to support Donald Trump. That's just not going to happen. But by not throwing Rubio a bone here, it's kind of cold. And it reflects, you know, both in anger with Rubio with the way it plays out, but a pretty calculating awareness that Rubio might not last much longer.

And you saw Carly Fiorina, another former candidate, endorsed Ted Cruz yesterday. So, Jeb Bush hasn't a weighed in. He hasn't sort of laid out the path forward. But remember, Right to Rise, his super PAC, still has money. And here in Florida, he is a power player in Florida.

BERMAN: If he is meeting with all three guys, it really does seem unlikely that he'll come out with an endorsement over the next two or three days before the Florida primary, which is when it would count. So, very, very interesting.

Stay with CNN all day long. Our pre-game before the big debate itself tonight. The debate coverage itself begins at 8:30 p.m. Eastern Time right here on CNN.

Christine.

ROMANS: All right. John, you know, Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump, they agree on one thing. They say international trade is killing middle class jobs and gutting the middle class. That is resonating with voters, but is it true? Unions and left leaning think tanks like NAFTA and others are job killers. Conservative and free market experts say trade benefits Americans with lower prices.

The truth is somewhere in between, as it always is. What's clear? The middle class is shrinking. Middle class Americans now comprise 49 percent of the nation's population, down from 61 percent back in 1971.

Yes, trade has prompted factories to close and jobs to move overseas, but also the rise of technology. New technology. America's shift to a service based economy, that also is hurting jobs and forcing some workers into lower wage positions.

Americans want lower prices and they just aren't buying as many big ticket items -- when given a choice, American consumers for decades have chosen the lower cost product. Economists say these changes would have happened regardless of America's trade agreements.

All right. The Dow is up four of the past five days. Oil still has a chokehold on the market. Will that change? We'll get an early start on your money, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[04:57:30] ROMANS: All right. Let's get an early start on your money this morning.

Oil and stocks finally moving in opposite directions. Dow futures are up, but oil is down almost 1 percent. You know, that tight relationship between oil and stocks, likely not over yet. But it is an encouraging sign we have not seen that frequently stock markets in Europe are edging lower and shares in Asia finished mixed.

Check out the Dow in the past five session, folks. Four modest gains, one 110-point loss, crazy volatility from earlier in the year, fading we hope. But analysts say the market will need some catalysts to push higher. Most investors still look into oil for direction.

For the year, the Dow is down just 2.4 percent. Essentially, the Dow is one rally away from breaking even after all that drama in January and February. NASDAQ posting a deeper loss down 6.6 percent. The S&P down 2.6 percent for the year, so a progress for you there.

Another Volkswagen executive is out following the company's emissions scandal. Volkswagen America CEO Michael Horn is stepping down effectively immediately after reaching a mutual agreement with the company. Horn spent the past 25 years with the automaker, a leading European and global company before becoming the VW America CEO at the start of 2014.

He's the one who told Congress last year he had no knowledge of the software use to beat the emissions test. The company is being sued by U.S. authorities. It could face fines totaling -- get this -- $18 billion. Volkswagen's global CEO resigned last September.

All right. EARLY START continues right now.

(MUSIC)

ROMANS: The race for president on fire this morning. Republicans just hours from taking the CNN debate stage. Pivotal elections in states like Ohio and Florida. They're now just days away. This as overnight, Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders held their most contentious debate yet.

Good morning and welcome to EARLY START. I'm Christine Romans in New York.

BERMAN: I'm John Berman, at the University of Miami, in Miami. It is debate-apalooza. Thursday, March 10th, 5:00 a.m. in the East.

We have the Republican debate at The U tonight.

And breaking overnight, it was Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton head-to-head here in Miami, in a bilingual debate sponsored by Univision and "The Washington Post". It aired right here on CNN.

The timing of this debate fascinating, right? It comes just after the stunning Bernie Sanders upset in Michigan, clearly reshuffling the stakes of this race. Hilly Clinton, you know, she had been pivoting toward a general election fight against Donald Trump.

Well, pivot no more. At the debate overnight, it was all about Bernie Sanders.