Return to Transcripts main page

Early Start with John Berman and Zoraida Sambolin

Orlando Club Massacre: Stories of Survival; Obama: Orlando Attack Example of Homegrown Extremism; Trump Slams Obama's Response to Terror. Aired 5-5:30a ET

Aired June 14, 2016 - 05:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: New investigations into the Orlando gay club massacre, 49 people killed, 53 injured. New stories of survival, as we learn new information about the killer from his online radicalization to why he targeted that particular club.

[05:00:03] Patrons telling CNN they had seen him in that club many times before.

Welcome back to EARLY START. I'm Christine Romans here in New York.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm John Berman, live in Orlando this morning. It is Tuesday, June 14th.

Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and all around the world.

Still a crime scene out in front of the Pulse nightclub. You can see the officers, hundreds of officers and vehicles out here investigating that scene for any clues that they can piece together as to what happened in the hours of that brutal attack.

There's also new information this morning, new details about how the gunman carried it out and how he planned it in the hours and days before. Regular patrons of the Pulse nightclub tell CNN and the Orlando sentinel that they had seen the gunman there several times before, maybe as far back as three years.

Now, it's not clear whether he was casing a target. Three years can be an awful long time to case a target, or if he was there for personal reasons.

Everywhere you look in this city right now, people are coming together. I'm standing on the street right. I can see a sign at a dry cleaner saying "our prayers are with you". And at a McDonald's saying "Orlando Strong".

You can see a vigil that took place in downtown Orlando overnight, beautiful with thousands of mourners out. President Obama, he is coming to the city on Thursday to pay his respects and stand in solidarity with this community. The investigation, as we said, is exposing new details of the attack, including information on the planning, the preparation, the motive, the hours before the attack. Let's get the very latest on that. I'm joined by CNN's Boris Sanchez.

Boris, the new details, what are learning?

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Essentially, these details reveal this was something calculated. That wasn't simply an emotional outburst that happened just from one moment to the next. We know that two weeks ago, he purchased the three weapons that he had for this shooting. One was a SIG Sauer AR-15 assault style rifle. He also had a .9 millimeter Glock with him, as well as a 38 caliber handgun that officials found in the car after the shooting.

We know that he also had some extensive training with weapons, specifically with at least one of these weapons before. Aside from that, we know that at least a week ago, he tried to buy body armor and that he was denied being able to purchase the body armor. Who knows how much worse this could have been if he had that kind of defense on him?

Aside from that, we're learning about his influences, some of his mindset. He was a -- one official described it as a heavy consumer. He consumed a hell of a lot of jihadi propaganda. We know he was watching ISIS beheading videos.

And aside from all that, one very interesting thing you mentioned, patrons of the club had seen him there multiple times before. Whether he was casing the club, we don't know. But what that tells you is that he was familiar with the layout. When officials told us that he had that initial scuffle with the off-duty police officer outside they sent in additional officers. It's clear that he knew where to go, he knew where he could hide best in there.

And the one disheartening thing about all of this, when you listen to the descriptions of his demeanor from survivors, let's play that for you now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

ORLANDO NIGHTCLUB SURVIVOR: I know friends that actually, their bodies were dead as well. It's just a senseless act of violence. A true face of evil.

ORLANDO NIGHTCLUB SURVIVOR: We were in a stall. I was in a stall, the handicap part. So you have the first part of the bathroom, which is the entrance, and the urinals, the sink, and then you have the big handicap, and that's where I was at. Then we started hearing pop, pop, pop, pop. And me and my best friend went inside the stall.

ORLANDO NIGHTCLUB SURVIVOR: Once he shot him, he laughed.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: The gunman laughed?

ORLANDO NIGHTCLUB SURVIVOR: Yes. And that's something that's imprinted in my head for the rest of my life. I've literally been in the hospital for two days trying to sleep. And one of the first things I hear when I close my eyes, guns, bullets hitting the floor and just that laugh. It's like a villain in a movie.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

SANCHEZ: Laughing during this horrible shooting. So, you've got the intention, the planning of it, the jihadi influence and now you have the story from survivors that he was seemingly enjoying himself as he was carrying all of this out.

BERMAN: We also learned where he was in the hours before this attack, which is concerning I think to a lot of people in community here.

SANCHEZ: It has to be. It's known as Disney Springs. It used to be known was Downtown Disney. I went there several times when I was young. It's a place you take your kids to go to as a restaurant, to go to a concert. There's all kinds of shopping there.

And the most frightening about it, it's not really a Disney Park. There's no one entrance. It's kind of an outdoor mall, so there are no metal detectors out there.

Investigators figured out essentially that using the cell phone tower data, that he was there likely alone by himself hours before the shooting.

[05:05:02] You can bet that the next phase of the investigation will be interviewing people that were there that may have seen him to try to figure out what his demeanor was like when he was there, just hours before coming here and carrying out the worst shooting in American history.

BERMAN: You can tell there's still so much work for investigators which is why they're here in force and will be at Disney Springs, trying to talk to as many witnesses as possible.

Boris Sanchez, thanks so much.

The killer's family members, they are cooperating with this investigation. They're offering new information about the killer's actions in the days and weeks before the attack. We're also learning more about the claims that he had visited this nightclub Pulse many times before. Some patrons tell CNN he had been coming for as long as three years, as long as three years. Others suggest maybe a couple times a month.

As for the plans about the radicalization, the president said that he said this was a case of home-grown terrorism. He said there was no evidence that a foreign terror group had directed these actions, but one official tells CNN that the gunman as Boris reported, consumed a hell of a lot of jihadist propaganda online.

Let's get more on this investigation now from CNN's Pamela Brown.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning, John and Christine. We've learned that investigators have been talking with the wife of

the gunman, and she has been giving helpful insight into where the gunman visited. The places he went to prior to the attack, and investigators are using that information to piece together a timeline of his movements, leading up to that mass shooting.

According to "The Orlando Sentinel", four patrons who were regular at this club said that they had recognized him and that he had gone multiple times prior to that shooting. So investigators are trying to figure out whether he was doing operational, preoperational surveillance or if there was another reason why he was at that club.

According to the FBI director, James Comey, he had been consuming propaganda online from terrorist groups, and that is in part why he was radicalized. In fact, my sources tell me that he was taking in a lot of ISIS propaganda, including propaganda from other terrorist groups.

Back in 2013, the FBI looked into him based on some comments he made to co-workers that he had associations with Hezbollah, and his family was associated with al Qaeda. At the time, the FBI looked into it and interviewed him twice, and he said he did make those comments but he did it because he was being taunted by his co-workers for being Muslim.

Ultimately, the FBI closed that investigation. He was taken off a watch list at that time the FBI interviewed him again the next year. But he was not the subject of that investigation and found that he didn't have any terrorist ties then. Still a lot to learn, more than 100 leads have been looked so far, and the investigation still very active -- John and Christine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: All right. Pamela Brown, thank you so much. Not only have regulars here at Pulse told CNN and other media outlets that the killer came to this club several times over the period of several years, but many witnesses also say they chatted with the killer on gay dating apps like Grindr and Jack'd.

The obvious question: was he gay? Was he leading a secret gay life that others did not know about?

CNN's Erin Burnett asked his ex-wife.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SITORA YUSUFIY, EX-WIFE OF ORLANDO SHOOTER: He very much enjoyed going to clubs and the nightlife, and there were a lot of pictures of him. So, you know, I feel like it's a side of him or a part of him that he lived, but probably didn't want everybody to know about.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Do you think he was gay?

YUSUFIY: I don't know. He never personally, or, you know, physically made any indication while we were together. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: All right. Erin Burnett there speaking to the ex-wife of the killer here.

Let's talk about the investigation, joined by CNN military analyst Cedric Leighton, former deputy director of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Cedric, thanks a lot for being with us. Your area of expertise is military, but you've been involved in investigations before the one of the key pieces we've learned overnight is that this killer had been coming to this nightclub behind me for three years, for three years as often as a couple times a month. That seems like an awfully long time to be casing a building if that's what he was doing.

You know, just on the face of it, it seems like he was there for other reasons, personal reasons, perhaps, just as a patron.

CEDRIC LEIGHTON, FORMER DEPUTY DIRECTOR, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: Well, that could very well be, John. One of these things that we look at when we are investigating cases like this is, you know, is there something that happened. For example, is it possible that he was rejected by somebody? Maybe he made an advance and things went bad, you know, in a personal relationship or an attempt to establish a personal relationship.

[05:10:03] One of the other things to look at is, you know, was he casing other areas as well? Was he not only looking at the Pulse night club, but was he looking at the Disney shopping center that Boris and you talked about earlier.

So these are many different things that have to come together. The one key thing that is, of course, very disconcerting here is the fact that he was very much a consumer of all the different jihadi propaganda elements on social media. So, that is obviously a red flag.

You couple that with statements he allegedly made to his co-workers at the security firm G4S, and that really starts to paint a picture of somebody who is perhaps uncertain of their position, their philosophy in life. And they may also be looking for ways to act out certain things. And in this particular case, of course, that acting out was the terrible tragedy that we see in Orlando.

BERMAN: Yes, and to be clear, none of these threads are mutually exclusive. He could be involved in all of this. It paints a clearer picture of what was going on.

As you said, another thread we picked up is three consumed, quote, "a hell of a lot", a hell of a lot of jihadist propaganda online. And that's got to be something very concerning to investigators because you imagine that happened right up until very recently. And this was a guy who was on their radar as far back as 2013, investigated, questioned by the FBI, and yet, they're learning that up until recently, that he was consuming just tons of this very dangerous stuff. Beheading videos, Anwar al Awlaki videos. He, of course, that Yemeni

cleric who's connected to a lot of terrorist activity around the world. He's deceased, he was killed, but his influence is still very much active, Cedric.

LEIGHTON: The other thing I thought was interesting is that he may be ideologically diverse in the sense that he may very well have looked at al Qaeda, you know, you mentioned Anwar al Awlaki. He may also have been inspired by ISIS. In fact, that's what he allegedly said in that 911 call that was made. So there are many different threads here.

He may have been in one of those ideological dark spaces where he supports the tenets of what we call radical Islam but the other part of it is that he is, you know, looking for ways in which he can act out his frustrations. It seems like he was personally frustrated in terms of personal relationships. His marriage didn't work out. There's the question of whether or not he was gay.

There's the business about, you know, did he have any other connections to the outside world. So far, you know, that relate to terrorism. So far, indications are that he acted alone, and that's probably true, but the problem is, he consumed this kind of propaganda. He also understood what it was all about, and he took that upon himself, internalized a lot of this and then acted upon it, and that's really the most dangerous kind of terrorist that we're faced with today.

BERMAN: Exactly the kind of terrorist that ISIS is hoping to breed. Again, no direct connection, no direct link, no sign of an order from overseas to this man, yet, he carried it out on his own.

Cedric Leighton, thanks so much for being with us.

LEIGHTON: You bet, John.

BERMAN: What happened here in Orlando is dominating the conversation in the race for president. What should the next president do in the battle against terror? What can the next president do? Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump have wildly different ideas about it. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[05:17:56] ROMANS: The tragedy in Orlando dominating the race for president. Donald Trump blasting President Obama and Hillary Clinton in a speech. He renewed his push to ban Muslims from entering the country. Now, Hillary Clinton avoiding mention of Donald Trump by name. She condemned anti-Muslim rhetoric and renewed her push for gun control.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: It will be lifted, this ban, when and as a nation we're in a position to properly screen these people coming into the country. They are pouring in and we don't know what we're doing. We cannot continue to allow thousands upon thousands of people to pour into your country. Many of whom have the same thought process as this savage killer.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: If the FBI is watching you for a suspected terror link, you shouldn't be able to just go buy a gun with no questions asked.

(APPLAUSE)

And yes, if you're too dangerous to get on a plane, you are too dangerous to buy a gun in America.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

ROMANS: So, one world view. Keep guns out of the hands of the bad guys. The other view, keep the bad guys out of by suspending or limiting immigration.

Joining us now is Zach Wolf, managing editor of CNN politics digital.

Zach, a very interesting day yesterday in terms of the politics of this whole event. I want to start with something about Donald Trump that happened yesterday. He was on FOX News. I want you to listen to the sound bite from him on FOX News, and then the fallout throughout the day, you know, just amazing. So, listen to this first.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

TRUMP: He doesn't get it or he gets it better than anybody understands. It is one or the other. And either one is unacceptable. We are led by a man that is either not tough, not smart or he's got something else in mind.

And the something else in mind, you know, people can't believe it. People cannot believe that President Obama is acting the way he acts and can't even mention the words "radical Islamic terrorism".

[05:20:04] There's something going on. It is inconceivable.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

ROMANS: There's something going on. A lot of attention to that particular insinuation from the presumptive nominee for the Republicans.

And "The Washington Post" put out this headline, "Donald Trump suggests that President Obama was involved with Orlando shooting." That was the original Washington Post headline. And then, it switched to this, "Donald Trump seems to connect President Obama to the Orlando shooting."

Trump started releasing statements on Facebook. Here's the first one, "I'm no fan of preside Obama, but to show you how dishonest the phony 'Washington Post' is, they write Donald Trump suggests that President Obama is involved in the Orlando shooting as their headline. Sad." Then he says this, "Based on the incredibly inaccurate coverage and reporting of the record setting Trump campaign, we are revoking the press credentials of the phony and dishonest 'Washington Post'."

"The Washington Post" responding to its own part here, "Donald Trump's decision to revoke the press credentials is nothing less than a repudiation of the role of a free and independent press." It goes on a little more likely than that. But that's the gist of it.

Look, a free press is a cornerstone of democracy. Donald Trump apparently at war here with "The Washington Post".

ZACHARY WOLF, CNN POLITICS DIGITAL MANAGING EDITOR: That's right. You know, it's not the first organization he has gone to war with. There are a couple of others, "BuzzFeed", "Huffington Post". He's revoked press credentials before.

This is just not the thing you expect to hear about in the United States where freedom of the press is such an important part of the cornerstone of the country. Just like the Second Amendment. First Amendment is a key thing.

You know, presidential candidates have not traditionally, at least in recent memory, ever done this kind of thing, targeted individual media groups in this kind of way. So, it's another example of how Donald Trump is doing things differently.

You know, the old saw is that you're not supposed to pick a fight with people who print things, he's done it over and over again, but this time with one of the most famous papers in the country. So, we'll see how that -- if the people start to turn against him over this or if it plays into his hands. He's certainly shown that he can manipulate the media. So, we'll see what happens.

ROMAN S: It's certainly is interesting and it's a fight that will go on. I want to talk to you next time, Zach, in just a few minutes. I want to talk about fact checking Donald Trump and the things he said yesterday. There's incorrect assertion in his speech. I want to talk to you about those on the side.

Thanks, Zach. We'll talk to you in a few minutes.

Twenty-two minutes past the hour. Support for Orlando victims coming from across the country to the world. The emotional scenes, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[05:27:20] BREMAN: Thousands of mourners gathered in downtown Orlando last night to pay tribute to the victims of the terror attack here. A lot of people in the crowd felt compelled to attend because pulse nightclub played a big role in their lives. Others, they just needed a shoulder to cry on.

You know, in some ways, the world is a giant shoulder right now for the people of Orlando to cry on. Tributes are pouring from across the country and the world right now. Thousands jammed the streets of Stonewall Inn in New York's Greenwich Village. That's the birthplace of gay rights activism in 1969.

Look at that picture from New York City.

Mayor Bill de Blasio and Governor Andrew Cuomo there, they called for stricter gun laws during that event.

In Philadelphia, much the same scene, 2,000 people, including the mayor, they turned out to mourn the Orlando victims. And, again, not just mourn, but stand in solidarity with the city.

Hundreds turned out for a candlelight vigil in San Diego last night. The mayor told mourners, "We are all Orlando tonight".

And it wasn't just the United States. In London, a moment of silence outside a pub targeted in an anti-gay bombing in 1999. In Paris, look at the Eiffel Tower, lit up in the colors of the gay right movement.

In Paris and all around the world, standing in solidarity with the people here in Orlando.

We have new stories of survival from this city. We have new details in the investigation into what happened in the club and what happened in the days leading up to the attack. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)