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Dallas Shooting: 5 Officers Killed, 6 Wounded. Aired 4:30-5a ET

Aired July 08, 2016 - 04:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[04:30:53] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's an officer down. I think another officer's down around the corner over here. They got SWAT over here. I can't really -- I can't really get any closer.

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BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: We're following breaking news right now. A horrific scene in Dallas.

Snipers killing five police officers, wounding six others at a rally against police violence. Thousands were in the streets as the shooting began. There are three suspects in custody right now and a tense standoff is underway with more that is happening right now.

Welcome back to EARLY START. I'm Boris Sanchez.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Christine Romans. It's 31 minutes past the hour. We welcome all of our viewers here in the U.S. and around the world.

A devastating night in Dallas. Breaking news this hour, a situation still under way. Snipers shooting 11 police officers overnight. Five of those officers are dead. Thousands marching through the city protesting this week's police shootings in Louisiana and Minnesota. Those police were protecting these mostly peaceful protesters.

Police say they are now in a tense standoff with one gunman. He is holed up in a downtown two-story parking garage. There are three other suspects in custody.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CHIEF DAVID BROWN, DALLAS POLICE: Currently, we are in negotiations with a suspect involved in the shootings at the garage of El Centro in downtown Dallas. This suspect we're negotiating with for the last 45 minutes has been exchanging gunfire with us and not being very cooperative in the negotiations. Before I came here, I asked for plans to end this standoff. And as soon as I'm done here, I'll be presented with those plans.

In addition to this second floor garage as we recap the previous press release, we have in custody a female who was in the same area of the El Centro garage.

And we followed a Mercedes with two suspects who had camouflage bags who officers ended up stopping on traffic in the Oak Cliff area near Polk and 67th. They are in custody and being interviewed.

The suspect that we are negotiating with that has exchanged gunfire with us over the last 45 minutes has told our negotiators that the end is coming and he's going to hurt and kill more of us -- meaning law enforcement -- and there are bombs all over the place in this garage and in downtown. So, we are being very careful in our tactics so that we don't injure and put any of our officers in harm's way, including the citizens of Dallas as we negotiate further.

We still don't have a complete comfort level that we have all the suspects. So, we will continue a very, very rigorous investigation and search of downtown. We will likely be working throughout the early morning hours of Friday until we are satisfied that all suspects have been captured and have an opportunity to be interviewed so we can fully understand what's motivated this attack on our officers.

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ROMANS: All right. For the very latest, I want to bring in CNN's Polo Sandoval.

Polo, eyewitnesses have been describing a scene there, just a harrowing scene. A peaceful protest, Polo, peace -- all these people in the street protesting and the police protecting their right to do so and then, suddenly, snipers almost triangulating on police officers. Two of them I think from elevated positions.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: At least those are the initial reports, Christine. That's absolutely correct. This initially started as a peaceful protest, one of several that happened across the country, in fact. We were at one here in Atlanta, very similar one just last night. Obviously in Dallas, a different outcome, though, a very violent one as the familiar call for justice was quickly drowned out by the sound of rapid fire.

As you see video shot on the ground, you see people walking down the street with signs in hands and then, minutes later, seconds later, you see them just scrambling for cover, not just protesters, but officers that were there to protect them as they exercise their right to free speech. You see that crowd really parting, many of them actually grabbing their phones, webcasting and also capturing the moment. There was one in particular, Ismael Dejesus, he was inside his hotel

in downtown Dallas. And he heard what he described as popping noises, that's when he looked out the window, grabbed his phone and captured a very horrifying scene.

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ISMAEL DEJESUS, WITNESS: Basically came out to the balcony. I heard some popping sounds that I think it was fireworks at first. Came out and a man had a rifle, AR-15 clear as day. Pretty big magazine. You could see toward the end of the video here, he goes in and drops a few mags.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: This is him behind the railing. This is him behind the railing next to the column, correct?

DEJESUS: Yes. This is him right here to the right of that white pillar, shooting to the left and turns to the right and shoots to the right. Shoots on the other side of the pillar. He was shooting at something and aiming at somebody.

Then, he turned around and checked his back to make sure no one was coming. But the officer did come across the right side of the screen to that pillar to the right. He tried to take him one on one in the firefight. It didn't end very well. It was very tragic.

LEMON: That's the officer getting shot right there?

DEJESUS: No, I didn't get the video of the officer getting shot. That is the officer down right there. It was -- it looked like an execution, honestly. He sat over him after he was already down. Shot him maybe three or four more times in the back.

At that point, I didn't know if he was confirmed dead or anything, obviously. He was down for about five more minutes until anybody could come get to him.

LEMON: You heard the shooting. You started filming. The shooter had lots of 30 round magazines, correct?

DEJESUS: Yes. That's my guesstimate. They were not short mags. They were high class magazines.

LEMON: So many they were falling out of his pocket?

DEJESUS: Yes. He dropped about two of them. You can see at the end of the video, two dropped out of his pockets. He had multiple pockets. You can see in the resolution of the video, he did have three or four pockets coming down the front of his pants.

LEMON: You said it looked like he was wearing body armor.

DEJESUS: Yes, he did definitely look like he was wearing something underneath his shirt. The police officer did shoot him in the back. But it did not faze him. He just turned around and shot the officer as if nothing ever happened. So, I can only assume there, unless he was a very big guy, he had some

kind of body armor on underneath that shirt.

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SANDOVAL: You just heard from Ismael Dejesus, one of several witnesses there who spoke to CNN's Don Lemon overnight.

Many people here will be waking up to the identity of at least one of the officers that was killed, the first officer to be identified now. We understand his name is Officer Brent Thompson. He was 43 years old, killed during the shooting. He is the first Dallas Area Rapid Transit officer to be killed in the line of duty. He initially joined the agency in 2009.

Dallas Mayor Mike Rawlings asking for prayers and to keep not only his family and their thoughts but also the other four officers that were killed and, of course, the wounded. And the rest of the city, obviously, lives will change for many people there at least for the next few days. The mayor recommending people who are living in the area or at least working in the area to simply stay home as the heart of the major American city is now a giant crime scene, guys.

SANCHEZ: That certainly is, Polo. I can't imagine the investigation under way right now. Especially with a suspect claiming there are bombs located around the city.

ROMANS: Yes.

SANCHEZ: To help us break down the scope of the attacks, we are joined by CNN law enforcement analyst Cedric Alexander.

[04:40:00] He's a public safety director for DeKalb County, Georgia, and he's the author of the book "The New Guardians: Policing in America's Communities for the 21st Century".

Also with us, former ATF executive, Matt Horace. He's a senior vice president at FJC Security Services.

Matt, I wanted to start with you. Something we have been discussing, there is more than one suspect. We have seen lone wolf attacks before. In San Bernardo, we saw a couple. But right now, as far as we know, there are at least four suspects.

What does this tell you about this attack?

MATT HORACE, FORMER ATF EXECUTIV: Well, it tells us that it was planned. This wasn't a random act. Four suspects, at least four, maybe more. We will learn that as the day goes on. This was calculated and planned.

ROMANS: It may not be in response to the last couple days of what we have seen around the country. It could be looking for the opportunity for a large group of people and police officers.

HORACE: It very well may not and we have to always keep open that window that it very well might be terrorism at the end of the day as well.

ROMANS: Just planting bombs everywhere, the gunman who is holed up in the parking garage saying there are bombs planted everywhere.

Cedric, we heard that from the shooter in Orlando, almost this embellishment of grandiosity, trying to stoke more fear. What do you make of the bomb claim?

CEDRIC ALEXANDER, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, it may not be fear. It certainly may be realistic. We saw this in San Bernardino. This just did not go off.

So, the possibility if you consider the weaponry they used last night to kill those and wound those officers. The possibility certainly is there. So, Dallas is going to proceed with caution. They're going to cordon off that area and they're going to search every inch and block of that community, to make sure when they open that scene back up that they are safe and the citizens are safe there in Dallas.

But nothing can be minimized at this point. We have to take all precaution and take seriously. They could be IEDs in and around that area, and they're going to take the proper precaution.

SANCHEZ: Matt, I want to go back to you. We asked this of Cedric earlier about the level of skill. When you watch some of the video and you see that way that that gunman moves behind the column, you hear from witnesses, the way they were clearly orchestrating this attack. What does that tell you about the level of training that they perhaps had? What does it that kind of -- how do you read the suspect?

HORACE: Well, and watching that attack the way they were advancing and retreating, their movements. It is almost like they had prior tactical training either in the military or may be even in police services at some point. This wasn't your standard every day criminal that not know what they were doing.

High power weaponry. A lot of magazines.

SANCHEZ: Tactical gear.

HORACE: Tactical gear. A lot of rounds. Let's not forget -- this is a huge crime scene. Now anywhere where you can find ammunition is going to be a part of the scene.

That whole idea with the explosives, we heard that before. But remember, there was another incident in Dallas last year.

ROMANS: That's right.

HORACE: And the gunman actually did leave explosive devices in other areas. So, this may take time to fully mitigate. That's why they want people to stay home and not go into downtown Dallas today.

ROMANS: That's right. I mean, it is 3:43 a.m. in Dallas. You're going to have a Friday morning commute coming up. You have public transportation which is shutdown. The area down there in downtown is cordoned off.

One of things about the suspects, and again, early reports, especially hours after this event, the event is still ongoing. Early reports can sometimes end up being wrong quite frankly.

But, Cedric, one of the people in custody according to the police chief is a woman. You know, I go back to San Bernardino. I go back to the wife in the investigation in the Orlando shooting. What do you make of the fact that one of those people in custody is a woman?

ALEXANDER: Well, it is not unusual. Certainly, it wouldn't be unlikely. I mean, if we consider San Bernardino, the subject there, Farook was a female. And so, as far as we know, there could be a female that is being holed in that garage. So we don't know.

But, certainly, this was a planned attack, well-coordinated. And my sense is because these incidents that occurred in both Minneapolis and in Louisiana occurred only a couple days ago, they probably had been planning this attack. There was an opportunity very recently that protests being called in Dallas and may have taken advantage of that opportunity to launch this attack, which was the attack they may have planned to do anyway. We're going to see as time goes on.

ROMANS: And we bring up the fact one of those in custody is a female because we keep saying gunman. The gunman is our reaction or shooter and the perception is usually that that is a man. But there is one woman is in custody.

SANCHEZ: But more often than not, when you have these mass shootings, it's a male suspect.

So, Cedric Alexander and Matt Horace, thank you so much for your perspective. We're going to keep you guys around. And turn back to you when we need more perspective.

[04:45:01] So, we want to go right now to on the ground in Dallas, CNN's Sara Sidner is there.

You are on the scene of the standoff. What are you seeing?

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Boris, there have been flash bangs. Witnesses talking about the fact they saw SWAT teams going into El Centro College, along with bomb sniffing dogs. And so, that's what's been happening over the past hour or so.

We are seeing a huge police presence. If you look over my shoulders, you will see a huge number of police cars here on Main Street. This is the main drag through downtown. Just behind me, you will see the Bank of America building, that big building with the green lights on it.

And just a block off, there is a McDonald's a way up. People were hearing sounds of gunshots just one block over. We are close to city hall. We're a couple blocks from city hall. There's a federal building there. People were evacuated from those buildings and some of their cars. They could not get to their cars because the area is blocked off.

A very big police presence, but we are not seeing the intensity on some of the officers' faces that people were saying in the beginning. There is a little bit of calm now. I think they feel that they have cornered at least whoever is responsible for this absolutely devastating shooting.

And so, what you are seeing now is a huge presence. They are concentrating at El Centro College. At first, they said that the shooters were potentially inside of the parking garage near El Centro College. Now, we're hearing from witnesses, they're seeing a lot of police activity actually at the building of the college. And that's where they are saying they believe the shooters may now be -- Boris.

ROMANS: Sara, it is interesting. We are looking at the video coming through. It's Christine here. We're watching the video coming through, and what you are seeing police officers who are, you know, helping the protests and taking selfies with the protesters there in shorts. It's a summer evening. And they are frankly a very peaceful situation.

This is not one of the situations where you have police officers who are in tactical gear or police officers who almost look militarized. This looks like community policing and this is a police department now just devastated. Almost as if the police officers are partners with these protesters and then they were targeted.

SIDNER: I would say this, if you look at the scene before the shooting began, there was a peaceful protest. Yes, they were protesting against police brutality. Yes, police officers were out. But they were not in a confrontational type of situation.

And we need to be extremely careful about saying anything that was going on with the protests had anything to do with the shooting, because if you look at the scenario right now and talk to police experts a have done today, they're like this looks like it was planned. Whether they took advantage of this protest and decided to go ahead and target police officers or not, we don't yet know.

But it is very dangerous right now to try to link these protests and shooting if any particular way. We need to wait and see what police say about the suspects once they are able to either get them into custody or at this point because they have taken out five officers, killed five officers, leaving six others wounded. This is an absolute day of massacre for the police department and for the BART Police Department -- and DART, excuse me, the Dallas Area Rapid Transit department.

I mean, this is unprecedented. Hear in Dallas, you can certainly feel the sorrow. You can also feel the intensity. Not just of the officers, but of the community here. And we need to be careful about what we say about these protests and the shooting, two separate things that we know right now, and we do not know if there is any link between the two.

We do know there was one gentleman that the police put a picture of saying the police said this is a person of interest. At one point, police tweeted out that he was a suspect. That person has come forward saying I had nothing to do with this. Come to the police saying, I had nothing to do with this.

He is very angry at this hour. He didn't want to be linked to this. He was there during some of the protesting. But this is the kind of information that we in the media and the public needs to be very careful with.

Don't start blaming people and bring the anger higher than it needs to be. This is a community that has been devastated by this -- Christine.

ROMANS: You are exactly right by this. Our sources and law enforcement experts are saying the same thing you are saying. It is a tragedy, that was a very peaceful protests. Many of our guests are saying they feel as though outsiders were using that as an opportunity.

[04:50:01] SANCHEZ: There's a huge crowd of people. Many of them unarmed. And so, if you're looking for a target, it makes sense that they were target.

ROMANS: Sara, we know you have to work your sources. So, we'll get you more work o the scene there.

Right now, the president, President Obama, is in Poland for the NATO summit. He has been briefed on the shootings in Dallas. And the White House says he will offer his reaction within the next 30 minutes. Just after arriving in Warsaw, the president addressed the shootings by police in Louisiana and Minnesota, saying we have seen these tragedies, quote, "too many times".

Let's bring in CNN international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson from Warsaw for us.

Good morning, Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, good morning, Christine.

President Obama talked about there being biases, some conscious, some unconscious that he said needed to be rooted out. In these situations he said, a big chunk of our fellow citizens feel they are being treated unfairly because of their color. He went on to quote statistics.

African-Americans, 30 percent more likely to be pulled over, Hispanics and African-Americans, if they are pulled over, three times more likely to be searched. But he also talked about the respect that he has, that the United States has for law enforcement officers. Their right to be able to go to work and come home to their families.

He asked people to step back and pause and consider that for a while. This is what he said.

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BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Let me just say, we have extraordinary appreciation and respect for the vast majority of police officers who put their lives on the line to protect us every single day. They've got a dangerous job. It is a tough job.

And as I said before, they have a right to go home to their families, just like anybody else on the job. But when we see data that indicates disparities in how African-Americans and Latinos may be treated in various jurisdictions around the country, and it is incumbent upon all of us to say, we can do better than this.

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ROBERTSON: Now, the president is going to continue to be updated about the situation in Dallas. He is expected to speak soon. The meeting he is having here is hugely important, meeting with his European partners about tackling the global threat of terrorism, about tackling ISIS, getting them all onboard, and, of course, big meetings with the Europeans as well about the Brexit and potential financial implications across the globe. He's got a lot to say about that.

Right now, the issue of Dallas is one he is getting information about all the way through these other meetings.

ROMANS: Yes. There are those, Nic, who are saying this is kind of a tough time for the president to be abroad, because there is so much happening right now and there's just a painful moment before Dallas, a painful moment in America right now with this tension between police and the protests. Not the protesters, but police and people who say, look, you know, police are not protecting everyone equally. And now, this happens in Dallas and he is there.

ROBERTSON: And this is something obviously the reason we would expect him and he is expected to be speaking. He came in and when he spoke, as soon as he got off air force one, within an hour, he wanted to address the shootings of Louisiana and Minnesota. He wanted to address that.

But, of course, that was before these events took place in Dallas, he has been very keen and clear to stress the importance of pausing, of not slipping into the usual political rhetoric of trying to score points, of taking one side against another. He called almost in a way for seeing the potential for issues to arise, called for people to pause and think.

This, of course, is an issue that's absolutely going to dominate his attention here. Unfortunately, as he has big issues on his plate.

ROMANS: Absolutely. All right. In Warsaw, Nic Robertson, thanks, Nic.

SANCHEZ: All right. Coming up at the top of the hour, and we want to get everyone up to speed on the breaking news in Dallas. Snipers opening fire on police last night as thousands protesting deadly shootings by officers in Minnesota and Louisiana. Five officers have been killed. Six others wounded.

There are three suspects in custody right now. And Dallas police have been in a hours long tense standoff with one gunman holed up in a downtown parking garage. It has been a horrific night for the city of Dallas. The whole city is shutdown right now, an enormous crime scene.

Look at some of these video of the sniper attacks taken by eyewitnesses.

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[04:55:11] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Blacks, whites, Latino, everybody, there was a mixed community here protesting. And this just came out of nowhere.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody's really armed to the teeth. This is not -- this is not one person.

(GUNSHOTS)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This just came out of nowhere. As a matter of fact, we were towards the end of the protest when the shots started firing off.

POLICE OFFICER: Get back! Get back! Let's go! Back! Let's go, let's go!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All of a sudden, I saw and heard six to eight shots. It looked like two officers went down. I didn't have time to get a good look. I ran back and I was screaming, "Run, run, run. Active shooter. Active shooter."

(GUNSHOTS)

(SIREN WAILING)

MAYOR MIKE RAWLINGS, DALLAS: Let's all come together and support our police officers. Please, let's come together right now as a city.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

SANCHEZ: Rejoining us right now, CNN law enforcement analyst Cedric Alexander, and former ATF executive Matt Horace.

Cedric, I want to get over to you. You know, over the past two days, we have been discussing these officer involved shootings. And obviously right now, it is too early to know if there is a connection between Dallas and those shootings.

But what does it say to you with the tension in the law enforcement and civilians in this country, what do we take from Dallas? How do we move forward as a country?

ALEXANDER: Well, we've got to determine the motive in Dallas. That aside and we look at the two shootings, one that happened in Minnesota and one, of course, in Baton Rouge. That is very shocking and very disturbing to this nature in and -- to this nation in and of itself.

And people are highly bothered by those interactions there between the police and the community members who lost their lives. People are still reeling from that. And then, on top of that, last night, we have this situation that occurred where we lose five police officers and six severely injured. It has totally devastated that community and it certainly has devastated this country.

So, we just can't read any more into it than what we already know and just continue to try to move forward, think as to now we will continue to work together both police and community and do not allow this to separate us by any kind of -- under any imagination. We just cannot afford to do that. We are at a point in time in this country at this moment where we need to be able to stand together.

The greatest majority of the police officers doing their job every day are good men and women. And the greatest majority of people that are in this country are hard working people who want to take care of themselves, take care of their families regardless of what community they live in.

And we just have to continue to move forward together and try to work through some of this challenge we have with our community and our police.

ROMANS: Well said, well said.

Matt Horace, final thought for you? I mean, this is still an ongoing situation and when they get talk to the suspect, if they can or find out who this person is and what could have motivated the person who is holed up right now in that parking garage, then we'll know more about why this happened.

HORACE: One hundred percent. And, you know, let's not forget either -- this is the worst mass law enforcement casualty since 9/11. So, my heart and prayers go out to the families and victims here. And I think we cannot let it die, you know, just on the bind, as it relates to the first issue. Have to keep the discussion going about these law enforcement shootings and public perception and community perception, because once the discussion stops, things quiet down until the next issue.

ROMANS: I think you are absolutely right on that. In terms of motive here, we don't know what the motive here. We don't know what motivated those attackers or how long they've been planning it, whether they use this protest as their opportunity.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

ROMANS: Gentlemen, thank you so much, Cedric Alexander and Matt Horace. We have five officers killed. Six wounded. Snipers ambushed a police

violence protest, a peaceful protest. President Obama set to address that tragedy at any minute.

"NEW DAY" starts right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. This is "NEW DAY." You've got John Berman and Chris Cuomo here for you this morning.

And we have made the worst kind of history in America.