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Early Start with John Berman and Zoraida Sambolin
Trump And Clinton Clash In Ugliest Debate Yet; CNN Poll: Donald Trump Exceeded Debate Expectations; Trump On Bill Clinton: "Mine Were Words And His Was Action"; Trump Threatens To "Jail" Clinton If He's Elected; Trump Dismisses Running Mate's Views On Syria; Aired 5-5:30a ET
Aired October 10, 2016 - 05:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: -- also dismissed it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RAJU (voice-over): Donald Trump entered last night's debate with one major goal, to end the crisis engulfing his campaign. After a tape of his vulgar remarks about globing women from 2005 was uncovered.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This was locker room talk. I'm not proud of it. I apologize to my family. I apologize to the American people.
RAJU: CNN's Anderson Cooper pressing Trump over his crude comments about forcing himself on women. Trump denying he ever actually did that.
TRUMP: I have great respect for women. Nobody has more respect for women than I do.
ANDERSON COOPER, MODERATOR: So for the record you are saying you never did that?
TRUMP: You hear these things are said. I was embarrassed by it, but I have tremendous respect for women.
COOPER: Have you ever done those things?
TRUMP: I will tell you -- no, I have not.
RAJU: Hillary Clinton linking the tape to his past controversial rhetoric.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I said starting back in June that he was not fit to be president and commander-in-chief. This is who Donald Trump is, but it's not only women and it's not only this video that raises questions about his fitness to be our president because he has also targeted immigrants, African-Americans, Latinos, people with disabilities, POWs, Muslims and so many others.
RAJU: And as he'd long threatened, Trump rehashed old Clinton controversies, bringing to the debate three women who accused Bill Clinton of sexual misconduct in the 1990s. TRUMP: If you look at Bill Clinton, far worse, mine are words and his was action.
CLINTON: When I hear something like that, I am reminded of what my friend, Michelle Obama, advised us all, when they go low, you go high.
RAJU: And Trump in an extraordinary remark threatening to jail Clinton if he becomes president over handling of classified material on her private e-mail server as secretary of state.
TRUMP: If I win, I am going to instruct my attorney general to get a special prosecutor to look into your situation.
CLINTON: It's just awfully good someone with the temperament of Donald Trump is not in charge of the law in our country.
TRUMP: Because you'd be in jail.
RAJU: Trump frequently interrupting Clinton throughout the heated exchange.
CLINTON: It is just not true and so please --
TRUMP: You didn't delete them?
CLINTON: -- personal e-mails. Not official. We turned over 35,000.
TRUMP: Oh, yes. What about the other 50,000?
COOPER: Please allow her to respond.
RAJU: Clinton becoming visibly frustrated.
CLINTON: OK, Donald, I know you are into big diversion tonight. Anything to avoid talking about your campaign and the way it's exploding and the way Republicans are leaving you --
RAJU: Trump at times seemingly uncomfortable, pacing around the stage and hovering over Clinton. The billionaire admitting he wrote off nearly $1 billion in losses and didn't pay federal income taxes in some years.
COOPER: Did you use that $916 million loss to avoid paying personal income taxes?
TRUMP: Of course, I do.
RAJU: Trump making a stunning admission when pressed about Governor Mike Pence flatly contradicting his running mate's call to use military force in Syria.
TRUMP: He and I haven't spoken. I disagree.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You disagree with your running mate?
TRUMP: To knock out ISIS. RAJU: Clinton found herself on the defensive as well over leaked transcripts of her speeches to banks including one where she talked about having different positions publicly and privately.
CLINTON: As I recall, that was something I said about Abraham Lincoln. President Lincoln was trying to convince some people. He used some arguments. Convincing other people, he used other argument.
TRUMP: She lied. Now she's blaming the lie on the late great Abraham Lincoln. That's one that I haven't heard. Honest Abe.
RAJU: The ugly tone of this debate was started with the candidates refusing to shake hands. Ended by both sharing what they respect about each other.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
RAJU: Now the question is, Chris, whether or not Donald Trump's performance was enough to stabilize his campaign. We will get an early indication of that today when House Republicans convene a conference call later this morning to discuss Donald Trump and whether they will continue supporting his campaign going forward -- Chris.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, they are sticky now. You have people run away from him thinking he would quit. That is not who Donald Trump is. Who won last night's debate? Not you. That's for sure.
Because it was all about the ugliest allegations of the people on stage. Here's what the CNN scientific poll says, 57 percent of the debate watchers to 34 percent say Clinton won. Clinton winning big among women nearly 2-1. They said she won and half of men watching agreed.
[05:05:08]That said, I think it is safe to say Trump benefited from low expectations, 63 percent of debate watchers say he exceeded their expectations. While 39 percent felt Clinton exceeded their expectations.
So we should point out this type of poll the night after is not going to be as well weighted as normal polls. This skews more Democratic in average.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, so let's discuss this debate with our panel. We have CNN political commentator and senior contributor for "The Daily Caller," Matt Lewis, CNN Politics executive editor, Mark Preston, CNN political analyst and Washington bureau chief for "The Daily Beast," Jackie Kucinich, CNN political analyst, David Gregory, and CNN national political reporter, Maeve Reston. Great to have all of you with us.
Matt, you disagree with that snap poll. You think Donald Trump won. Why do you have that impression?
MATT LEWIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I do because of the context coming in. I mean, Donald Trump should have been on the ropes. I think Hillary Clinton could have really put him out to pasture last night.
The narrative could have been the race is all over. Instead, Donald Trump is Harry Houdini. I think he has escaped. He's managed to live on and survive.
Look, any normal person or conventional candidate would have gone into that debate if you're Donald Trump like the kid who forgot to do his homework. You show up and contrite and on defense.
Instead, Donald Trump what only Donald Trump would do goes on offense, takes it to Hillary Clinton. I think she was on defense most of the night. I was really surprised. I think this subject has been changed. We are talking about a debate. Not just about what he said on "Access Hollywood."
CUOMO: David, how did you see it?
DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I see it a little bit differently. I do agree that Trump exceeded expectations. He seemed more comfortable. He seemed more prepared. He was certainly on the attack. I think we have to think about the context in which this is happening.
His campaign has been slipping before the release of this crude tape. The tape now happens. It has blown up his campaign and the Republican establishment with Republicans finally finding some courage because of these remarks to separate themselves from him.
Now he's in a new reality where this tape is really going hurt him. If we keep talking about with these debates, what do most Americans think about Donald Trump? He doesn't have the temperament nor qualifications to be president.
So as well as he did last night attacking Hillary Clinton, he was speaking to his core supporters. Look at the Pennsylvania poll. He's losing by over 20 points among college educated voters in a must-win state for him.
Did he change minds among those who are rejecting him at this point by going into all the Clinton bad behavior and by accusing her of having hate in her heart, by saying he would jail her?
Like he is a third world dictator if he were president? That is my question if he was able to move anything last night with that kind of performance.
CAMEROTA: So, Mark, Anderson Cooper, one of the moderators got right to the tape right off the top of the debate, and questioned Trump about it. Let's play again what his response was.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Just for the record, are you saying that what you said on that bus 11 years ago that you did not actually kiss women without consent or grope women without consent?
TRUMP: I have great respect for women. Nobody has more respect for women than I do.
COOPER: So for the record you're saying you never did that?
TRUMP: You hear these things have said and I was embarrassed by it, but I have tremendous respect for him.
COOPER: Have you ever done those things?
TRUMP: I will tell you, no I have not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: So did he dispense with it?
MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: Nobody has more respect for women than he does. It was outrageous what happened. Look at the situation we're in right now. The bar is one inch off the ground.
He cleared it by three inches so all of a sudden, we think that just because he was able to go in and not actually answer one policy question with an ounce of policy in it, that he was able to roll out three women who have accused Bill Clinton of some kind of sexual advances or in some case assault or rape.
They sit in the audience. Talking about somebody who says I want to jail my political opponent and we are sitting here saying, you know what, she survived to live another day. His supporters are going to back him.
But the fact of the matter is he will not get the middle anymore. There are voters in Pennsylvania he could have gotten that he will not get. The state's gone. Florida is probably gone. There's no path to victory for Donald Trump.
So while he seemed measured last night because he wasn't totally off the hook, he was still Donald Trump and off the hook. What we saw last night was actually an indictment of our political system. It is unfortunate what we saw last night quite frankly.
CUOMO: Just in case you exercised the discretion not to watch last night, the main defense that Donald Trump has to what he admitted to doing with his own words was that Bill Clinton has done worse. Here is that piece.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[05:10:12]TRUMP: If you look at Bill Clinton, far worse. Mine are words. His was action. What he has done to women, there has never been anybody in the history of politics in the nation so abusive to women. Hillary Clinton attacked the same women and attacked them viciously.
Four of them are here tonight. When Hillary brings up the point like that and she talks about words that I said 11 years ago, I think it is disgraceful. I think she should be ashamed of herself if you want to know the truth. (END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: So Jackie, the irony is that with Bill Clinton, you have him never acknowledging any of those allegations. You had Donald Trump in his words admitting that he had done the kinds of things he is accusing Clinton of. Does that work with anybody outside the people who will never vote for anyone but Trump?
JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: No. Bill Clinton is not on the ballot. Hillary Clinton is on the ballot. A lot of the things Trump says about Bill Clinton comes straight out of conspiracy theory land. Things that are in at client's book and that Roger Stone says.
So no, I don't think it matters. If you didn't watch the debate last night, particularly if you were a woman, he interrupted her all night and he loomed over her all night long. It was kind of creepy frankly to watch it. That is an enduring image.
I don't know that these allegations that have been thrown around frankly since the '90s will eat into Hillary Clinton.
CUOMO: Howard Fineman with the "Huffington Post" referred to him as an aging orange lion. Pacing behind Clinton all night.
PRESTON: He also criticized his running mate on a major foreign policy issue. Criticized him. Dismissed him.
CAMEROTA: We are going to have Mike Pence on later in the program to ask him about that moment. Maeve, it is more than allegations. Jackie, to be fair, there were three accusers of Bill Clinton's in the audience.
You know, obviously it was designed to get Hillary Clinton back on her feet. I did feel that she was rattled in her first answer because the first question from an audience member was about the tone of the last debate and whether it was suitable for children to be watching.
Hillary Clinton gave kind of a treatise on her policies and I did feel that that was an opening to go for the jugular with the divisiveness and toxicity of the language, but she didn't do that. What did you think about her sort of demeanor the whole time?
MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: She did seem certainly a little bit off balance in that first question and no doubt was rattled by this. This was a surprise to the Clinton team. We were all around them at the time this came out and rushing past to go watch the Facebook live that Donald Trump had done with these accusers.
So clearly that did get her up on guard for the beginning of the debate. I do think that she kind of regained her pacing and her step and you know, the fact that Donald Trump was doing all that bizarre wandering around the stage and then looming over her.
I just think his body language was so different from hers. She was fully in control of her space and actually talking to people. That's what you came away with in terms of her demeanor. PAUL: We also have a body language expert coming up. Stick around for that. Panel, we have more questions for you. It's a threat that has never been heard in a presidential debate. Donald Trump vowing to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate Hillary Clinton and to jail her. Could he do that as president? We will weigh in on that and more next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[05:18:17]
CUOMO: Here's something you don't see every day. Donald Trump apparently threatening Hillary Clinton with an investigation. Really, he said I'll send you to jail. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I didn't think I'd say this, but I'm going to say it. I hate to say it, but if I win, I am going to instruct my attorney general to get a special prosecutor to look into your situation because there has never been so many lies, so much deception. There has never been anything like it. We will have a special prosecutor.
CLINTON: Last time at the first debate, we had millions of people fact checking. So I expect we will have millions more fact checking because it is just awfully good that someone with the temperament of Donald Trump is not in charge of the law in our country.
TRUMP: Because you'd be in jail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Let's bring the panel back, Matt Lewis, Mark Preston, Jackie Kucinich, David Gregory, and Maeve Reston. So were you proud of your man last night when he said that?
LEWIS: Not my man.
CUOMO: Party's nominee.
LEWIS: I do have to say this is an old line. I think it was Pat Buchanan said what's the first thing I would do when you're sworn in and he says turn to William Jefferson Clinton and read him his Miranda Rights so this rhetoric has been around awhile, but I think Donald Trump is not a laugh line.
CUOMO: But that was during that when you say something like that you wind up being an afterthought --
LEWIS: He is the nominee. So the downside to this and we're all wringing our hands and this sounds like a Banana Republic. I saw somebody on Twitter noted, but if you are an average American, this sounds like, OK, politicians are going to be held accountable just like we are. It is in the eye of the beholder how you interpret this.
CAMEROTA: There is a different way to interpret it, which is OK, so the divisiveness and hate-fueled speech of the election will not over.
[05:20:11]If he is elected president, then it will continue and he will continue the vendetta against Hillary Clinton. That's what he is promising to do.
PRESTON: Not just him. He has clearly made it through the campaign that if he doesn't like you, then, you know, he will punch you five times. He will try to take you out. He will do whatever he can to give you pain.
In fact, it was telling at the very, very end of debate when they had to say something nice about each other. What did he say about her? She's a fighter. He is one combative guy.
Look, what we saw last night, yes, I absolutely agree with you. At least Maeve is saying politicians will be held accountable. He said I'll put you in jail. In fact he said I'm going to put you in jail so --
GREGORY: This is not just him impugning Hillary Clinton and going after Hillary Clinton. What he's talking about here is making a spurious claim that she did something illegal. The head of the FBI James Comey, a former Justice Department official, Republican appointee said this wasn't even a close call as to whether there were any criminal charges here.
All the political commentators on our air said anybody else would be thrown in jail. James Comey said who runs the FBI said this is not even a close call. What Trump does is attacking Clinton, he's also attacking key pillars of the judicial system of our country.
This really does go to how unhinged he sounds and whether it falls on sympathetic ears among his supporters. I don't dispute that it does, but even those people who don't like Hillary Clinton, you know that goes a bit too far. We will track this I think at some of the reaction.
KUCINICH: I felt like we were at a rally at times. It was the same things we hear at Trump rallies. You heard some of the crowd Start cheering. That fueled him. I don't know that he was thinking it through that may sound like he is a dictator. I think he was going through what works on the stump.
CUOMO: The taxes came up last night. Donald Trump tried to -- let's hear what he said about his taxes and you can take it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: You have not answered a simple question. Did you use that $916 million loss to avoid paying personal federal income taxes?
TRUMP: Of course, I do. So do all of her donors or most of her donors. I will tell you that number one, I pay tremendous numbers of taxes. I absolutely used it and so did Warren Buffett and George Soros.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: So, Maeve, the argument is it's legal. What's your beef?
RESTON: Right. And I think, you know, that was probably the only answer that Donald Trump could give to try to get past that issue and on to other things, but to Jackie's point, if you think about who the real target audience was last night or which should have been for Donald Trump is white, suburban, college educated women.
The combination between Donald Trump's body language and then, you know, saying that he would throw Hillary Clinton in jail. That is not going to go over well with the people that he needs to win over especially after the emergence of the tape and everything else.
It was just again playing to his base not expanding to the audience that he really needs if he thinks he can win this race. At this point, it is a very uphill climb.
CUOMO: Matt, let's talk about the point of difference that came up between Donald Trump and his running mate, Mike Pence about their policy that they have articulated about what they would do in Syria. So listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I don't like Assad at all, but Assad is killing ISIS. Russia is killing ISIS and Iran is killing ISIS.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to remind you what your running mate said. He said provocations by Russia need to be meet with American strength. If Russia continues to be involved in air strikes along with the Syrian government forces of Assad, the United States of America should be prepared to use military force to strike the military targets of the Assad regime.
TRUMP: OK. He and I haven't spoken and I disagree. I disagree.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEWIS: Well, so first of all, this is a fallout from the Mike Pence debate where Mike Pence did a fabulous job of actually defending Donald Trump and in some cases reinterpreting Donald Trump. Obviously there was a dichotomy between what Mike Pence's Donald Trump believed and Donald Trump's Donald Trump believed.
Maybe they are lucky that this is as big as it gets in terms of the dissidence. The interesting thing to me was that this was like life imitating art.
[05:25:03]"Saturday Night Live" this week had a line about how great Mike Pence is and the moderator says Mike Pence disagrees with you and then Trump attacks Mike Pence.
CUOMO: He did not criticized Mike Pence. He just said he disagreed -- he said they haven't spoken about. I mean, look, that's fine. That will be seen as candor by him. But David, one of the challenges that's going to come up reflexively is for Pence, Pence is a guy who says I'm a Christian first and decency is his middle name. He has refused to condemn what he used to condemn about Donald Trump before he became the nominee.
And now he will come out and he still hasn't said anything about the tape. How high a bar for him this morning?
GREGORY: Well, he is not going to defend it. He said he can't be an effective surrogate on this. He will criticize Donald Trump and say that Trump has apologized and presumably move on. But I think you take these two things together.
Look, Pence is there to say to rank and file Republicans look, I know you have reservations about Trump. He's OK. I can vouch for him. I can be a guy who can work on Capitol Hill. So he reaches out to conservatives and reaches out to core Republicans. Trump threw him under the bus last night. I think that was striking.
CAMEROTA: Panel, thank you very much. Great to get all of your insights.
CUOMO: All right, coming up in the 8:00 hour, Donald Trump's running, Governor Mike Pence will join us live to talk about last night's debate and whether they're on the same page.
CAMEROTA: All right, Hurricane Matthew is moving offshore now, but a deadly threat remains. Why thousands of people in North Carolina are not out of the woods this morning.
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